Summer Camps and Speed Limits

KonaChick · 07-01-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neckdweller

Tecumseh and Winaukee, both down Moultonborough Neck, aren't exactly catering to the underprivileged market with the kids coming from well off areas of PA and NY respectively. Tecumseh used to have one or two local deserving kids from Moultonborough attend on scholarship however.

As far as I know, Winaukee has never been a not for profit though so they're probably kicking in a substantial amount of property tax.

I can't speak for the current state of Tecumseh, but they used to be considered not for profit. There were taxes paid but the camp kind of decided what they'd pay and the town accepted it - if push came to shove the alternative was $0 because of the status.

That is my point. These camps are not full of underprivileged inner city campers being run down by big bad GFBL boat's as some of the speed limit proponents might want you to believe. Perhaps the close calls come because the kayakers are too busy texting to pay attention. BTW my OWN little prince was doing that this weekend out in our cove while kayaking. He will NOT have his phone the rest of the week. I know we're abusive parents but you have to do what you have to do.

Bear Islander · 07-02-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonaChick

That is my point. These camps are not full of underprivileged inner city campers being run down by big bad GFBL boat's as some of the speed limit proponents might want you to believe. Perhaps the close calls come because the kayakers are too busy texting to pay attention. BTW my OWN little prince was doing that this weekend out in our cove while kayaking. He will NOT have his phone the rest of the week. I know we're abusive parents but you have to do what you have to do.

If that is your point, its not a very good one.

Who described the children at these camps as being "underprivileged inner city campers"? Did I miss that, or did you make it up.

And who posted about camp children being "run down by big bad GFBL boat's"? Did I miss that as well, or did you make it up.

I have said that camps have had to keep their boats in at times. And that the New Hampshire Camp Directors Association supports HB847.

However if we are talking about the safety of a child in a kayak, I don't think the financial situation of the child's parents makes any difference at all. And it is rather telling of your motives that you to bring it up.

KonaChick · 07-02-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

If that is your point, its not a very good one.

Who described the children at these camps as being "underprivileged inner city campers"? Did I miss that, or did you make it up.

And who posted about camp children being "run down by big bad GFBL boat's"? Did I miss that as well, or did you make it up.

I have said that camps have had to keep their boats in at times. And that the New Hampshire Camp Directors Association supports HB847.

However if we are talking about the safety of a child in a kayak, I don't think the financial situation of the child's parents makes any difference at all. And it is rather telling of your motives that you to bring it up.

BI, I understand your point exactly! When a specific group of people are targeted and it's not based on fact just opinions it can be difficult to swallow. You have my sympathy!

Bear Islander · 07-02-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonaChick

BI, I understand your point exactly! When a specific group of people are targeted and it's not based on fact just opinions it can be difficult to swallow. You have my sympathy!

I don't understand.

Does this mean you made up that story about underprivileged children at camps and attributed it to speed limit supporters? Then when asked for details you want to change the subject?

Please don't misdirect. What speed limit supporters have been talking about underprivileged inner-city children at Winnipesaukee camps?

We both know that never happened. So why don't you just say "my mistake" and move on.

KonaChick · 07-02-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I don't understand.

Does this mean you made up that story about underprivileged children at camps and attributed it to speed limit supporters? Then when asked for details you want to change the subject?

Please don't misdirect. What speed limit supporters have been talking about underprivileged inner-city children at Winnipesaukee camps?

We both know that never happened. So why don't you just say "my mistake" and move on.

Just like we both know the accident rates for GFBL boats (or any boat for that matter) doesn't support a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee.

wildwoodfam · 07-02-2008, 02:42 PM

How on earth did a thread that started out as a taxation question for non profit camps around the lake turn into YET ANOTHER debate on the speed limit issue? I went back through this thread - and nobody posted anything about lil campers being run down by GFBL's - so why toss out that grenade into this already controversial subject. Not too mention Kona you ASKED BI's opinion and now you are thrashing him? Bipolar or what?!?

Non-profit taxation is highly charged without coupling it with the speed limit law! YIKES!

Talk about pushing agendas - we all do it I guess, but some are just more subtle about it I suppose!

And just because you put a cute little widget next to your slam doesn't make it a nice slam....

KonaChick · 07-02-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildwoodfam

How on earth did a thread that started out as a taxation question for non profit camps around the lake turn into YET ANOTHER debate on the speed limit issue? I went back through this thread - and nobody posted anything about lil campers being run down by GFBL's - so why toss out that grenade into this already controversial subject. Not too mention Kona you ASKED BI's opinion and now you are thrashing him? Bipolar or what?!?

Non-profit taxation is highly charged without coupling it with the speed limit law! YIKES!

Talk about pushing agendas - we all do it I guess, but some are just more subtle about it I suppose!

And just because you put a cute little widget next to your slam doesn't make it a nice slam....

Yes I guess we all push our own agendas and I'm certainly guilty. The back story is I started this thread in the SPEED LIMIT and it was moved here by the webmaster which was fine, but my original intent was to link the camps on BI to the speed limit issue. Several on here have made that point that the camps are fearful of the fast boats and it affects their ability to operate their camp effectively. I'm saying I don't believe a speed limit will solve that issue. How is that for linking the two posts. I do LOVE subtle innuendos and to be honest LOVE when people get it! I have always and will always sign my posts with a cute little

, it just seems appropriate to me. We're not talking about world hunger or cancer so a little levity by way of a

always seems appropriate. I don't think I'm bi-polar, or maybe I am, no definetely not, no for sure I am, well perhaps no, yup I am.

Wildwood Fam chill out and smell the beach roses. I have them growing like crazy all over my yard.

Islander · 07-02-2008, 05:27 PM

So the entire thread is a troll.

What possible difference does it make to a speed limit if the camps pay taxes? Do untaxed camps have less right to support a speed limit they think will make their children safer?

BI really is bipolar!

KonaChick · 07-02-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

So the entire thread is a troll.

What possible difference does it make to a speed limit if the camps pay taxes? Do untaxed camps have less right to support a speed limit they think will make their children safer?

BI really is bipolar!

Major snafu...i think you mean I am bi-polar not BI! Oh dear....and as I mentioned this thread was started in the SPEED LIMIT debate thead but was moved. I'm afaid I have to post a

at your major snafu!!!

Bear Islander · 07-02-2008, 07:22 PM

Camps have kept their small boats off of the lake during weekends and other high traffic days. That is a FACT you can readily confirm if you wish. And Parrothead has confirmed it as well.

Woodsy and others has stated that a speed limit will reduce the number of high performance boats on the lake. That is a PREDICTION.

Less boats and less speed may allow the camps to increase their small boat usage of the lake. That is a HOPE.

I am bipolar. I have skied to both poles.

KonaChick · 07-02-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Camps have kept their small boats off of the lake during weekends and other high traffic days. That is a FACT you can readily confirm if you wish. And Parrothead has confirmed it as well.

Woodsy and others has stated that a speed limit will reduce the number of high performance boats on the lake. That is a PREDICTION.

Less boats and less speed may allow the camps to increase their small boat usage of the lake. That is a HOPE.

I am bipolar. I have skied to both poles.

Yes, I got that joke after I posted, I'm not known for being "quick".

So when you said that less boats = less polution, noise etc. you were talking about certain kinds of boats. Small boats are OK with you. Tell me how many "small" boats would it take to make up a "big" boat for example do 5 "small" boats = 1 "big" boat and so on?? So are you saying it's fine to have as many "small" boats on the lake as can fit but no "big" boats? I'm confused...and if you can imagine I'm not even an original blonde (sorry in advance to all true blondes).

Bear Islander · 07-02-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonaChick

Yes, I got that joke after I posted, I'm not known for being "quick".

So when you said that less boats = less polution, noise etc. you were talking about certain kinds of boats. Small boats are OK with you. Tell me how many "small" boats would it take to make up a "big" boat for example do 5 "small" boats = 1 "big" boat and so on?? So are you saying it's fine to have as many "small" boats on the lake as can fit but no "big" boats? I'm confused...and if you can imagine I'm not even an original blonde (sorry in advance to all true blondes).

I would say forget small and big. Horsepower is the simplest way to look at the problem. Unrestricted horsepower on a crowded lake and community water supply makes no sense to me.

When the time comes that a lake needs to have restrictions because of crowding or pollution, the obvious answer is to start with the biggest boats. In my opinion we are at that point now.

The handwriting is on the wall. Everything is going toward more environmentally friendly. Nothing is moving in the other direction. The future of boating on all lakes will be low power, low impact and low pollution. The days of big cruisers and performance boats on lakes are numbered. The only question is how long will it take.

KonaChick · 07-03-2008, 05:22 PM

BI...take a look out your window, Lake Winnipesaukee is huge. The lake is "crowded" approximetely 8 or 9 weeks out of the entire year. Of those weeks perhaps 2-3 days are "crowded". Looking out at the lake and saying it's crowded is entirely subjective also. What I think is crowded may not be what others think. Pollution in and around Lake Winnipesaukee comes in many forms, boats of course being one of them. With the relatively low # of boating weeks available I'd say that boat pollution is low on the pollution chain. You chose to live on a very busy "intersection" on the lake, your choice. Your ideal image of small boats, kayaks and canoes putting around Lake Winnipesaukee is simply that, your image. What gives you the right to tell others what their image of Lake Winnipesuakee should be. You use the speed limit issue as a smokescreen to rid the lakes of what you consider undesirable boats. Again I ask you what gives you the right to tell me what i'm driving is unacceptable. The day may or may not come where we have a horsepower limit. It's not a given as you seem to think. You say when this day comes it makes sense to start with the bigger boats. I say if this day comes we don't discriminate against big boats but add small boats into the equation as well, it's only fair. For every big boat we ban we also ban 5 small boats. Like I said earlier, it's only fair.

Bear Islander · 07-03-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonaChick

BI...take a look out your window, Lake Winnipesaukee is huge. The lake is "crowded" approximetely 8 or 9 weeks out of the entire year. Of those weeks perhaps 2-3 days are "crowded". Looking out at the lake and saying it's crowded is entirely subjective also. What I think is crowded may not be what others think. Pollution in and around Lake Winnipesaukee comes in many forms, boats of course being one of them. With the relatively low # of boating weeks available I'd say that boat pollution is low on the pollution chain. You chose to live on a very busy "intersection" on the lake, your choice. Your ideal image of small boats, kayaks and canoes putting around Lake Winnipesaukee is simply that, your image. What gives you the right to tell others what their image of Lake Winnipesuakee should be. You use the speed limit issue as a smokescreen to rid the lakes of what you consider undesirable boats. Again I ask you what gives you the right to tell me what i'm driving is unacceptable. The day may or may not come where we have a horsepower limit. It's not a given as you seem to think. You say when this day comes it makes sense to start with the bigger boats. I say if this day comes we don't discriminate against big boats but add small boats into the equation as well, it's only fair. For every big boat we ban we also ban 5 small boats. Like I said earlier, it's only fair.

What gives me the right?... The US Constitution gives me the right.

I have the right to my opinion no matter how misguided you may think it is. I also have the right to support, or not support, any legislation I wish.

I have not used a smokescreen. I have been up front all along that I think high speed and high horsepower boats do not belong on Winnipesaukee.

I also believe you have every right to your opinion.

Lakegeezer · 07-03-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

What gives me the right?... The US Constitution gives me the right.

I have the right to my opinion no matter how misguided you may think it is. I also have the right to support, or not support, any legislation I wish.

I have not used a smokescreen. I have been up front all along that I think high speed and high horsepower boats do not belong on Winnipesaukee.

I also believe you have every right to your opinion.

Thank you for your opinion. It points out the problems in part of the lake, especially the western central portion. Please don't push your agenda on the whole lake, yet. Its not all as crowded as you may think. Opinions about conservation and efficiency awareness are good, but let's not start any more draconian actions.

SAMIAM · 07-04-2008, 07:33 AM

BI has not been "upfront" as he claims.He is using the safety issue to hide his real agenda which he accidentally revealed in a previous post.And that is to rid the lake of boats that he and his ilk do not approve of such as performance,cruisers and probably bass boats.Move to Squam,BI,you'll be happier there.

twoplustwo · 07-04-2008, 08:54 AM

Ditto SAMIAM. I always like when someone posts my thoughts, verbatim.

Islander · 07-04-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

BI has not been "upfront" as he claims.He is using the safety issue to hide his real agenda which he accidentally revealed in a previous post.And that is to rid the lake of boats that he and his ilk do not approve of such as performance,cruisers and probably bass boats.Move to Squam,BI,you'll be happier there.

THAT IS A LIE!

Or at best a bad mistake. If a mistake perhaps you should go back and read a few old posts before you make that kind of accusation. BI has been posting the EXACT SAME thing about his objectives since day one. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

This is not the time to start re-writing history because you are upset you lost.

Cal · 07-04-2008, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Bear Islander
Thank you so much!

You have confirmed my central argument for speed limits. I have been claiming for years that when a speed limit passes, people will leave the lake.

Less boats mens less congestion, pollution, noise etc. I pity the few large lakes left around that have no restrictions, they are due for an influx of performance boaters.

Hey Islander , you better read your buddys own recent words.

(post # 11 of the drivers license thread)

Islander · 07-04-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal

Originally Posted by Bear Islander
Thank you so much!

You have confirmed my central argument for speed limits. I have been claiming for years that when a speed limit passes, people will leave the lake.

Less boats mens less congestion, pollution, noise etc. I pity the few large lakes left around that have no restrictions, they are due for an influx of performance boaters.

Hey Islander , you better read your buddys own recent words.

(post # 11 of the drivers license thread)

Hi Cal, Are you the same Cal that posted he wants to slap Bear Islander upside the head?

The question here is if BI has been hiding that he wants GFBL and cruisers off of the lake. Your post is apples and oranges.

There are dozens of examples where BI has stated his feeling on these boats. I would give some examples but there are so many I think you can find them for yourself. I am surprised that some of the supposedly fair minded members of the opposition have not spoken up in his defense. Perhaps they are not as fair minded as they make believe.

Airwaves · 07-04-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear IslanderAnd who posted about camp children being "run down by big bad GFBL boat's"? Did I miss that as well, or did you make it up.

Good Lord! Are you taking a trip up the river Denial again? How many posts did we go back and forth in which I quoted you saying exactly what you wrote and then you denied writing them in which you claimed Summer Camps were in fear of being run down by boats traveling in excess of 100mph and reduced their activities on the water accordingly????

HB847 will do NOTHING to address the problem of violation of the Safe Passage rule...period.

As I stated when I first got into this debate years ago I don't have a horse in this race, neither of my boats will be effected. However I believe that because of HB847 NHMP boats and crews will be redeployed leaving a hole in the current number of safety patrols...those are the patrols that try to keep camp children, underpriviledged or not, safe.

Feel safe yet? I don't!

Bear Islander · 07-04-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

BI has not been "upfront" as he claims.He is using the safety issue to hide his real agenda which he accidentally revealed in a previous post.And that is to rid the lake of boats that he and his ilk do not approve of such as performance,cruisers and probably bass boats.Move to Squam,BI,you'll be happier there.

Yes, I admit it, you people have found me out. I don't think GFBL's and Cabin Cruisers belong on this lake...

____________________________________________

This has to be the most bizarre accusation I have ever faced. If I was keeping my real agenda secret all this time, then I was doing a really bad job of it.

Cal · 07-04-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islander

Hi Cal, Are you the same Cal that posted he wants to slap Bear Islander upside the head?

As a matter of fact , NO , I didn't say that. You read what you wanted to see and posted an untruth. That sounded like a threat. I did threaten any body or anything. All I did was express an baited opinion. What you did do is take the bait. It just took me a long time to sink the hook

Happy 4th

pm203 · 07-11-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Camps have kept their small boats off of the lake during weekends and other high traffic days.
.

And, what is wrong with that? Camps should keep their small boats off the lake on busy weekends. Any individual in charge of young children should do their best to keep their children safe. If that means no boating on the weekends , so be it. You still have 5 weekdays and early mornings anytime of the week to boat. Also, on another note, alot of my fellow high performance boaters are not going to go away. In fact, a couple of them are super charging their boats to go faster. Don't forget, the lake season is a short season. Alot of people ship their boats to Fl for the winter and use them year round. So, when on the lake, for several short months, they may be a little more careful where they go fast and how often they go fast. But, they still will come and enjoy the lake. Your view of the lake and what you want for it is not only selfish, it is wrong .

codeman671 · 07-11-2008, 07:34 PM

I have noticed a considerable presence of MP in the vicinity of Camp Lawrence (I look across at it) this season. I am sure the multiple calls that I put in asking for them to consider making the tip of Mark a NWZ probably helped. Much more than ever before. Looking out the window now a RIB is going by, and last night at this time I crossed paths with one out front as well as I was arriving home.

Today, the camp boat was towing skiers all day long and the canoes were traveling the shoreline as they always do, including weekends. No lack of boat travel for them during the week, and I see them doing the same activities on the weekend, just not skiing mid-day. Simply too much traffic, not a speed issue. It gets downright rough out front on the weekends from all the wakes. Too rough to ski or wakeboard.

07-02-2008, 02:42 PM	#6
wildwoodfam Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North Andover, MA & summers up at the BIG lake Posts: 285 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Ok Time Out!!!! How on earth did a thread that started out as a taxation question for non profit camps around the lake turn into YET ANOTHER debate on the speed limit issue? I went back through this thread - and nobody posted anything about lil campers being run down by GFBL's - so why toss out that grenade into this already controversial subject. Not too mention Kona you ASKED BI's opinion and now you are thrashing him? Bipolar or what?!? Non-profit taxation is highly charged without coupling it with the speed limit law! YIKES! Talk about pushing agendas - we all do it I guess, but some are just more subtle about it I suppose! And just because you put a cute little widget next to your slam doesn't make it a nice slam....

07-04-2008, 08:54 AM	#17
twoplustwo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 456 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 21 Posts	I'll take Squam Lake for $500, Alex Ditto SAMIAM. I always like when someone posts my thoughts, verbatim.

07-04-2008, 09:48 AM	#19
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	Originally Posted by Bear Islander Thank you so much! You have confirmed my central argument for speed limits. I have been claiming for years that when a speed limit passes, people will leave the lake. Less boats mens less congestion, pollution, noise etc. I pity the few large lakes left around that have no restrictions, they are due for an influx of performance boaters. Hey Islander , you better read your buddys own recent words. (post # 11 of the drivers license thread) __________________ Paddle faster , I think I here banjos

07-02-2008, 05:27 PM	#8
Islander Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 321 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts	So the entire thread is a troll. What possible difference does it make to a speed limit if the camps pay taxes? Do untaxed camps have less right to support a speed limit they think will make their children safer? BI really is bipolar!

07-02-2008, 07:22 PM	#10
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	Camps have kept their small boats off of the lake during weekends and other high traffic days. That is a FACT you can readily confirm if you wish. And Parrothead has confirmed it as well. Woodsy and others has stated that a speed limit will reduce the number of high performance boats on the lake. That is a PREDICTION. Less boats and less speed may allow the camps to increase their small boat usage of the lake. That is a HOPE. I am bipolar. I have skied to both poles.

07-03-2008, 05:22 PM	#13
KonaChick Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 518 Thanks: 19 Thanked 62 Times in 15 Posts	BI...take a look out your window, Lake Winnipesaukee is huge. The lake is "crowded" approximetely 8 or 9 weeks out of the entire year. Of those weeks perhaps 2-3 days are "crowded". Looking out at the lake and saying it's crowded is entirely subjective also. What I think is crowded may not be what others think. Pollution in and around Lake Winnipesaukee comes in many forms, boats of course being one of them. With the relatively low # of boating weeks available I'd say that boat pollution is low on the pollution chain. You chose to live on a very busy "intersection" on the lake, your choice. Your ideal image of small boats, kayaks and canoes putting around Lake Winnipesaukee is simply that, your image. What gives you the right to tell others what their image of Lake Winnipesuakee should be. You use the speed limit issue as a smokescreen to rid the lakes of what you consider undesirable boats. Again I ask you what gives you the right to tell me what i'm driving is unacceptable. The day may or may not come where we have a horsepower limit. It's not a given as you seem to think. You say when this day comes it makes sense to start with the bigger boats. I say if this day comes we don't discriminate against big boats but add small boats into the equation as well, it's only fair. For every big boat we ban we also ban 5 small boats. Like I said earlier, it's only fair.

07-04-2008, 07:33 AM	#16
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,676 Times in 586 Posts	BI has not been "upfront" as he claims.He is using the safety issue to hide his real agenda which he accidentally revealed in a previous post.And that is to rid the lake of boats that he and his ilk do not approve of such as performance,cruisers and probably bass boats.Move to Squam,BI,you'll be happier there.

07-11-2008, 07:34 PM	#25
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,498 Thanks: 221 Thanked 813 Times in 488 Posts	I have noticed a considerable presence of MP in the vicinity of Camp Lawrence (I look across at it) this season. I am sure the multiple calls that I put in asking for them to consider making the tip of Mark a NWZ probably helped. Much more than ever before. Looking out the window now a RIB is going by, and last night at this time I crossed paths with one out front as well as I was arriving home. Today, the camp boat was towing skiers all day long and the canoes were traveling the shoreline as they always do, including weekends. No lack of boat travel for them during the week, and I see them doing the same activities on the weekend, just not skiing mid-day. Simply too much traffic, not a speed issue. It gets downright rough out front on the weekends from all the wakes. Too rough to ski or wakeboard.