Headway Speed

[jrc]

Just how fast is headways speed with regards to no wake zones?

The law says:

"Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

Is it the greater of the two or the lesser?

If my boat can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH can I legally do 6 MPH in a No Wake Zone?

If my boat must do 9 MPH to maintain steerage way, can I legally do 9 MPH in a NWZ?

[Old Hubbard Rd]

The answers to your questions are YES & YES.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by jrc

Just how fast is headways speed with regards to no wake zones?

The approaching boat is an example of too fast...

[center][/ceneter]

[jrc]

Well he has to get there before the other guys arms give out.

That looks like Long Island bridge, I hope there's enough water under there. When much younger, friends swore they jumped off the GI bridge. It looks way too shallow in there for me.

Back to my original question. I've been told that 6 MPH is the absolute limit. The law reads ambiguously to me, but there may be a standard legal way of reading "or" in this context. Without being Clintonesque, it depends what "or" means.

This gets into the whole discussion of how slow do you have to go in the channel with traffic versus going through an un-crowded NWZ.

Assumming no traffic, I can push to 6.0 MPH on the GPS regardless of the wake?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by jrc

Back to my original question. I've been told that 6 MPH is the absolute limit. The law reads ambiguously to me, but there may be a standard legal way of reading "or" in this context. Without being Clintonesque, it depends what "or" means.

This gets into the whole discussion of how slow do you have to go in the channel with traffic versus going through an un-crowded NWZ.

Assumming no traffic, I can push to 6.0 MPH on the GPS regardless of the wake?

Law says:

""Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way."

So, no, unless you cannot maintain steerage way below 6 MPH (not likely).

[BroadHopper]

I've seen kids jump of the Weirs, LI and GI bridges many times. It's seem to be some kind of rite to the kids.

I even seen kids waterski, wakeboard through the island bridges through the years. Seems like they know where the MPs are.

[kjbathe]

Originally Posted by jrc

This gets into the whole discussion of how slow do you have to go in the channel with traffic versus going through an un-crowded NWZ.

Assumming no traffic, I can push to 6.0 MPH on the GPS regardless of the wake?

No wake means no wake regardless of who is around.

And what's the rush? Are the 30 seconds you save making that much of a difference? I'm wondering if you're the guy that I observed leaving Smith Cove last weekend in full animated fluster at having to follow the boat in front of him making "no wake". As soon as there was a break in the oncoming traffic, up went the bow and a wake to follow while passing the lead boat in what must have been an undeclared race to be first to the NWZ buoy. Relax already...

[wildwoodfam]

Originally Posted by GWC...

The approaching boat is an example of too fast...

[center][/ceneter]

...is an example of the idiots who have no regard for rules and regulations on this lake! This is a pretty regular occurence on the LI bridge - jumpers, fishermen, and this guy!! UGH! So this guys can't hang on - there is an approaching boat and this guy drops into the boat channel - now what!?!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by wildwoodfam

...is an example of the idiots who have no regard for rules and regulations on this lake! This is a pretty regular occurence on the LI bridge - jumpers, fishermen, and this guy!! UGH! So this guys can't hang on - there is an approaching boat and this guy drops into the boat channel - now what!?!

He'll get mauled by the prop and his family will sue the boat owner, manucturer, DOT, etc!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by kjbathe

No wake means no wake regardless of who is around...

Actually no wake means headway speed and I'm trying to clarify what headway speed is. I have conflicting answers in this thread.

You may have seen me leaving Smith cove last week or pretty much every week. I don't remember being animated. I only went out on Sunday last week. I parallelled an MP until I cleared Pig I. then took off. I'm not the guy pushing the rules in there, I had two boats pass me in front of the Inn.

Boys jumping from bridges, driving snowmobiles on the lake. If we could outlaw youthful overconfidence would we have a better world? Most times the pain is temporary and you learn a life lessons. Once in a while something tragic happens, people get hurt and/or jailed. There are no easy answers.

[HUH]

No wake means just that ! We see it all the time in Smith cove ..people pushing it a little or a lot .. whats the rush ? Myself and all my neighbors take turns yelling "NO Wake" .. its getting real bad now, we have to look both ways before going for a swim ! Most of the new Chapperal owners from fays would just assume run over a swimmer as slow down it would seem. Marine patrol is seldom if ever seen in the cove and when I asked they stated that there isnt much going on there.. Id disagree that when 500+ wet slips all decide to head out right before a thunderstorm, then come rushing back in there is TONS going on there..
PLEASE just slow it down

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by jrc
Just how fast is headways speed with regards to no wake zones?

The law says:

"Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

Is it the greater of the two or the lesser?

If my boat can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH can I legally do 6 MPH in a No Wake Zone?

If my boat must do 9 MPH to maintain steerage way, can I legally do 9 MPH in a NWZ?

Under NH law, Headway Speed and No Wake is one and the same.

270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:
VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.
VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

So, if your vessel can maintain steerage at 3 MPH then that is your headway and no wake speed. If you can only maintain steerage at 9 MPH then that is your headway and no wake speed.

[SAMIAM]

Wifey and I were enjoying a little adult beverage yesterday evening on the dock (our whole bay is a no wake zone) and we saw a rooster tail coming around the point....it was a bass boat with what looked like a Merc 300 on it going flat out.I'm not exaggerating when I say he had to be doing 75mph.We never mind when someone overlooks the no wake zone because the waves give us a free beach cleaning.Anyway.....we suddenly realized that the boat barely even left a wake......no worse than a pontoon boat at headway speed.He was trimmed up and flying........we're wainting for the waves and a couple of little ripples come in. we cracked up laughing.Technically,he didn't break the law.Sign doesn't say 6mph...it says "no wake"

[Skip]

Headway/No wake speed is 6 MPH in New Hampshire. People are getting the two terms confused because of the words "No Wake" being intermingled. It is confusing as written, but clear if you can muddle your way through these statutes.

The reason that there is a caveat to the 6 MPH rule is bacause some craft cannot maintain steerage at 6 MPH, regardless of wake produced.

Case in point is the 38 foot Egg Harbor that I crewed on last weekend as we navigated from Portland Harbor to the upper reaches of the Cocheco River well inland in Dover, NH. To maintain minimum steerage required between 8 and 9 MPH and unfortunately a fairly significant wake going against the tide in the upper reaches of the Piscatiqua and Cocheco Rivers.

Finally, regardless of the dictates of the particular RSA we are discussing, you are always legally responsible for your wake. In our case it required us to stop many times coming up river to minimize any hazard we could induce as we encountered a number of canoes, kayaks and several small boats the further inland we travelled in the Great Bay basin. This is a given for any good and experienced captian, but a trait many novice captains only learn by trial and error.

Bottom line?

If you are exceeding 6 MPH in a Headway Speed/No Wake zone then you must be prepared to clearly articualte the reason doing so to the inquiring offcer, and if not, the presiding court!

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Skip
If you are exceeding 6 MPH in a Headway Speed/No Wake zone then you must be prepared to clearly articualte the reason doing so to the inquiring offcer, and if not, the presiding court!

Absolutely correct. You can not just "say" my headway speed is 9 mph because you don't feel comfortable with anything slower. As I said if you can maintain steerage at 3 MPH then that is your headway speed. By the same token in Skip's story steerage was impossible below 8 or 9 mph so that was the headway speed of his Egg Harbor. If you are stopped you will have to be convincing. But I really don't think the laws are confusing.

One law defines what headway speed is, we've just gone over that;

270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:
VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

The other law defines what speed is legal in a no wake zone...headway speed

D:1 Definitions.
VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

I think they are complementary, not confusing Sometimes a boat doing headway speed causes a wake given existing conditions but that does not mean you should give up control (steerage) of your boat.

[Orion]

Airwaves, I think you and Skip are still in mild disagreement. Skips post (which I agree with) is saying that even if you can maintain steerage at 3 mph, your headway speed is 6 mph (max allowed under the "or", not minimum allowed under the "or"). The rule is certainly ambiguous the way it is written, but I believe Skip's interpretation is the intent of the rule.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Orion

Airwaves, I think you and Skip are still in mild disagreement. Skips post (which I agree with) is saying that even if you can maintain steerage at 3 mph, your headway speed is 6 mph (max allowed under the "or", not minimum allowed under the "or"). The rule is certainly ambiguous the way it is written, but I believe Skip's interpretation is the intent of the rule.

Hi Orion,

You are absolutely correct, and I believe that was what the original question was asking.

It is 6 MPH, and if you are travelling above that speed you must show why.

Remember, there is no chart for boats detailing "headway" speed. And every particular boat will have it's ability to maintain headway at a certain speed varied by boat loading, tidal conditions, weather conditions and mechanical changes within the boat itself, including I/O trim settings, trim tab settings etc.

So an arbitrary speed limit of 6 MPH has been set. But the law carries an additional caveat that allows an affirmative defense to travel above 6 MPH if you can articulate that conditions warranted the same.

But remember, in the real world if you are travelling at or below 6 MPH and producing a tremendous wake, you are probably going to get a visit from the NHMP if they are in the area. In the end it is always a judgement call by the observing officer, as we are all aware that most NHMP boats have not been equipped or trained to employ radar.

Bottom line?

It's just another factor/example in life where if you employ a good deal of common sense and boat smartly & courteously (as the Captain did in my trip described last weekend) you will be operating well within the spirit and intent of the regulations governing your operation!

Hope this cleared it up a little better...

Skip

[Airwaves]

I think was are still in mild disagreement.

The law establishes a speed of 6 MPH, that part is okay, but it also says OR the slowest speed in which you can maintain steerage. That would be the minimum speed in which you can maintain steerage.

It doesn't say headway speed is up to 6 mph or the minium speed over 6 mph in which yiou can maintain steerage.

So in the given conditions, if you can maintain steerage at a speed that is below 6 mph, then that is your headway speed as defined by NH law.

And because a no wake zone is defined as a zone in which only headway speed is allowed then headway speed defines, under NH law, what no wake is.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...I think was are still in mild disagreement...

It is 6 MPH. You are interpretating the law wrong.

Let's give another example. On many waterways in the State there are numerous signs indicating Headway Speed zones.

And what do those signs say?

They simply state "Headway Speed - 6 MPH".

They don't say "Headway Speed of 6 MPH or whatever minimum speed you need to maintain steerage".

They clearly state "6 MPH".

The additional language, as I will state for the final time, is to provide leeway for those craft that cannot maintain steerage at 6 MPH.

And it's as simple as that!

If you use Airwave's logic, that it is speed allowable to maintain steerage up to 6 MPH, then my good friend's Egg Harbor could never navigate many NH waterways legally, as he cannot maintain steerage under most conditions unless he is several MPH above 6.

Why doesn't the law simply read "Headway speed/No Wake...that speed necessary to maintain steerage?

Easy, if challenged it would be nearly impossible for an individual on another boat to determine the exact speed that another operator must maintain to control steerage!

So, what did the State do? It picked an arbitrary number (6 MPH) because it is safe to assume that most craft can operate with minimal wake at that speed, but it also gave an out for larger craft that might not be able to maintain steerage at that speed.


Hmmm....an arbitrary speed number to satisfy most reasonable conditions...where have we seen that same logic applied in another case??? Oops....

Anyway, safe boating everyone....the sun is breaking through and it's time to hit the water!

Skip

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Skip
6 MPH is 6 MPH
Quote:

It is 6 MPH. You are interpretating the law wrong.

Let's give another example. On many waterways in the State there are numerous signs indicating Headway Speed zones.

And what do those signs say?

They simply state "Headway Speed - 6 MPH".

They don't say "Headway Speed of 6 MPH or whatever minimum speed you need to maintain steerage".

They clearly state "6 MPH".

The additional language, as I will state for the final time, is to provide leeway for those craft that cannot maintain steerage at 6 MPH.

And it's as simple as that!

If you use Airwave's logic, that it is speed allowable to maintain steerage up to 6 MPH, then my good friend's Egg Harbor could never navigate many NH waterways legally, as he cannot maintain steerage under most conditions unless he is several MPH above 6.

It's interesting that we are debating how SLOW you can go!

Headway speed is NOT 6 MPH.

Headway speed is "...the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way."
You are correct that the additional language in the law is provided for vessels that headway speed is not 6 MPH...UP OR DOWN!

To be truthful with you, I have never seen signs on Winnipesaukee or the other NH waterways that I have boated on that state "HEADWAY SPEED - 6MPH". The signs I have seen say "NO WAKE" but it doesn't matter since under NH law they mean one and the same.

As you have pointed out on any number of occasions during various debates, just because a boating booklet, on in this case a sign, does or does not say "Headway Speed - 6 MPH" it is only a guide. The RSA is the LAW.

You misunderstand my interpretation of the law if you think that I say your friend with the Egg Harbor is violating the law by going headway speed at 9 MPH. Certainly not! If the Egg Harbor can not maintain steerage at a speed below 9 mhp then the speed that the Egg Harbor CAN MAINTAIN STEERAGE is the Egg Harbor's headway speed.

If on the other hand a boat, say a displacement hull with twin screws and bow and stern thrusters, can maintain steerage at under 6 MPH then whatever that speed below 6 mph is, that is the vessel's headway speed.

A displacement hull boat traveling at 6 mph can certainly kick up an impressive wake!

The law was written to make sure that boats are operated at the slowest possible speed when required to go headway speed in order to leave the least possible wake.

The original question by jrc was:
If my boat can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH can I legally do 6 MPH in a No Wake Zone?

If my boat must do 9 MPH to maintain steerage way, can I legally do 9 MPH in a NWZ?

The short answer is No and Yes.

What is so hard about this?

[Pineedles]

All I know is that when I get pulled over for exceeding the NO WAKE ZONE because my PWC can not be manuvered without power, and I might be a little heavy on the throttle and exceed 6 mph when I try and make a course correction, then I want legal beagels like you guys to argue my case.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...
The law was written to make sure that boats are operated at the slowest possible speed when required to go headway speed in order to leave the least possible wake.

Quote:
The original question by jrc was:
If my boat can maintain steerage way at 3 MPH can I legally do 6 MPH in a No Wake Zone?

If my boat must do 9 MPH to maintain steerage way, can I legally do 9 MPH in a NWZ?

The short answer is No and Yes.

What is so hard about this?

While I think the second part is clear, you can exceed 6 MPH if the vessel and conditions require it to maintain steerage way. I never needed this exception.

I'm still not convinced on the 6 mph. I think it is a hard limit. Headway speed is any speed 6 mph or less.

So let's take an example. A canoe can maintain steerage at less than 1 mph, so by Airwaves interpretation, they could not exceed 1 mph in a No Wake Zone.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

To be truthful with you, I have never seen signs on Winnipesaukee or the other NH waterways that I have boated on that state "HEADWAY SPEED - 6MPH". The signs I have seen say "NO WAKE"

Awaves, there used to be headway speed signs coming into the marina in Winter Harbor. You never see any these days as you said.

I don't think there are too many boats on the lake these days that can't maintain steerage at 6 MPH, are there?

I was watching MP stop people for No Wake and was surprised as some were just making an almost invisible wake. I asked him about it and he said no wake is no wake. If it was very small he just warned them though.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by jrc
I'm still not convinced on the 6 mph. I think it is a hard limit. Headway speed is any speed 6 mph or less.

So let's take an example. A canoe can maintain steerage at less than 1 mph, so by Airwaves interpretation, they could not exceed 1 mph in a No Wake Zone.

Okay, let me try this. I have an 18 foot bowrider. She is rated for 8 adult POB and a 150 hp Outboard motor. 50 gallon fuel tank.

I have a full tank of gas. A full complement of adults on board so the boat is heavy in the water and I am traveling at 6 MPH.

Under your "hard limit" headway speed, I would be in compliance with the headway speed/no wake zone even though with the weight, displacement and speed of my boat I am going to be kicking up a foot or more wake, and even though I can maintain control of my boat at a lesser speed than 6 MPH?

Now, on the other hand, You and I are on board Skip's Egg Harbor and we come to a no wake zone. Skip can not control the vessel at 6 mph. Does he violate the law if it kicks it up to a speed where he can control the boat? No, that's fine.

Originally posted by tis
Awaves, there used to be headway speed signs coming into the marina in Winter Harbor. You never see any these days as you said.

I don't think there are too many boats on the lake these days that can't maintain steerage at 6 MPH, are there?

I was watching MP stop people for No Wake and was surprised as some were just making an almost invisible wake. I asked him about it and he said no wake is no wake. If it was very small he just warned them though.

I am only quoting NH Law, not my opinion. The law says Headway Speed and No Wake Zones are one and the same. Not my opinon. Many large boats (cruisers come to mind) on the lake these days might have issues with headway speed at under 6 MPH. They are also the mostly likely to have bow and stern thrusters and twin engines.

The NHMP will make the call about what is headway speed and no wake. I have been yelled at going through the Weirs Channel by a drunk on the shore because I was making a "wake". I looked, there was a small wake and I was traveling less than 6 MPH.

So....what I am saying? The law was written to require boats travel the slowest possible speed in order NOT TO MAKE A WAKE in the designated areas.

Read the wording of the law again, carefully read it and then tell me you think it sets a limit at 6mph in a no wake zone. Or after you read it do you think that it REQUIRES you to operate at the slowest speed possible be that above or below 6 MPH?

[ishoot308]

From the Marine Patrol Website: http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...l/faq.html#A19

"What is headway speed?
Headway speed is 6 mph or the slowest speed to travel and still maintain steerage."

Dan

[Airwaves]

Yep, that's the law, and that's what Skip and I have both said. The question is....

who wants to say it???


I'm waiting......


I guess that depends of what the definition of OR is!

[ishoot308]

If its a "no wake area" you are required to go a slow as possible to the point where your boat causes no wake BUT maintains steering capabilities. You are however allowed to cause a minor wake if your boat must maintain a higher speed for steering.

If you are in a "headway speed area" (I.E. 50' from another boat) you can go up to 6 MPH, wake or not, as long as your boat can maintain steering, if not, you can go faster but be ready to explain if stopped.

Airwaves, "headway speed areas" and "no wake areas" are not the same. Being 50' from another boat does not constitute a no wake area, it is a headway speed area. You are allowed to cause a wake in a headway speed area as long as your not exceeding 6 MPH or the minimum speed for steering capabilities.

Wow that hurt to write!

Dan

[jrc]

Saf-C 401.08 "Headway speed" means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

So I can go 6 MPH, I don't need the "OR" and I've complied with the law.

I was just hoping for a definitive answer to clear up a campfire "discussion". I have no plans to hot rod around Smith Cove with 500 other boats going 6 MPH.

There so many "old wives tales" about the lake, sometimes it boggles the mind. The other day a experienced (old) laker told me it was a law to carry an anchor with enough rode to reach the bottom of the lake. My new boat only has 150' of rode.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by tis

"...Airwaves, there used to be headway speed signs coming into the marina in Winter Harbor. You never see any these days as you said..."

'Tis going back some years, tis.

Winnipesaukee Motor Craft was bought out to build condo apartments: even though the structures, dry storage and gas pumps are gone, the condos keep it busier yet!

(Probably off to buy gasoline!)

My recollection is that the "Headway-Speed" sign was hand-made and had black and white lettering: It was anchored about 500' before reaching the marina. Residents along muddied homes in that area asked for some respite from Director Flynn, but were denied a NWZ—perhaps more often than the one hearing that I attended.

I didn't speak up because about 20 people had spoken with one voice in the matter—with nobody in opposition. It was a "slam-dunk" as we departed the hearing.

Originally Posted by tis

"...I don't think there are too many boats on the lake these days that can't maintain steerage at 6 MPH, are there...?"

New Hampshire is giving you a break: the Federal law, upon which most state laws are based, stated five knots, which is about one MPH slower.

Edited to add:
Five knots IS nearly six MPH; however, the state rounded off to 6-MPH, rather than using the customary 5-MPH of speedometers (and the customary 5-MPH for roadway speed limits), giving freshwater boaters a break.

Originally Posted by Pineedles

All I know is that when I get pulled over for exceeding the NO WAKE ZONE because my PWC can not be manuvered without power, and I might be a little heavy on the throttle and exceed 6 mph when I try and make a course correction, then I want legal beagels like you guys to argue my case.

Jet-Skis are poorly manuvered at slow speeds, so this "driver" will agree with you!

[Orion]

6 mph is 6 mph. It's enforceable.

The minimum speed to maintain steerage in no wind is 0. I can keep my boat in a fixed position with no problem, as can most boats. Under Airwaves definition, if I want to go through a "no-wake" zone, I'd have to slip it in and out of gear (or paddle it) to barely perceptably move my boat through the area with no ripples.

What is a wake? My canoe makes a wake. Is the wake the sign talking about 1", 2", 4", 6", 2 feet?

I guarantee no boat on this lake makes 1' waves at 6 mph. There is a wake at 6 mph, but nothing that would cause any harm.

I still stand by the interpretation that "or" is to cover hard to control situations and as skip said, better have a good defense.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...New Hampshire is giving you a break: the Federal law, upon which most state laws are based, stated five knots, which is about one MPH slower...

Actually, 5 knots equals 5.8 MPH, a difference of only 2/10's of a MPH, not the 1 MPH that you indicate.

Therefore, for all practical purposes, 5 knots does equal 6 MPH, and if I remember correctly the State chose to use MPH for inland waterway RSAs as virtually all pleasurecraft that ply these water (at least at the time) utilized factory installed speedometers that generally read in the MPH range.

[Pineedles]

"Jet-Skis are poorly manuvered at slow speeds, so this "driver" will agree with you!"

Actually APS, its not slow speeds that make for poor manuvering on Jet-Skis, its no throttle that makes them non-steering at all. As I found out many years ago when I headed towards shore, released the throttle and expected to steer to port just before I hit the shoreline. Yes, I know about the 150' rule now but I didn't then. What a close call, I jumped off the Jet-Ski and held on to the seat handle and avoided serious injury to both me and my Jet-Ski. I tell my kids this story and they look at me with this expression of incredulous amazement that Dad could have been so stupid. Hey that's what growing up is all about. Being lucky enough to survive all the stupid mistakes you made as a kid.

[ossipeeboater]

Originally Posted by HUH

No wake means just that ! We see it all the time in Smith cove ..people pushing it a little or a lot .. whats the rush ? Myself and all my neighbors take turns yelling "NO Wake" .. its getting real bad now, we have to look both ways before going for a swim ! Most of the new Chapperal owners from fays would just assume run over a swimmer as slow down it would seem. Marine patrol is seldom if ever seen in the cove and when I asked they stated that there isnt much going on there.. Id disagree that when 500+ wet slips all decide to head out right before a thunderstorm, then come rushing back in there is TONS going on there..
PLEASE just slow it down

I spent the first 3 summers I had my place yelling, I finally gave up on it this summer because you can't fix stupid.
Finally yelled at the first one last weekend who decided to be on the wrong side of the channel speeding about 10 feet from my boat with my kids in the water.

[Airwaves]

270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:
VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

You boys think what you want and go ahead and operate at 6 MPH through a NWZ with a NHMP boat sitting there and smile. Just keep in mind that beginning 1 Jan 2009 a misinterpretation of this law on your part will mean a moving violation on your drivers license record.

Originally posted by Orion
The minimum speed to maintain steerage in no wind is 0. I can keep my boat in a fixed position with no problem, as can most boats.

Actually under those conditions you are NOT at headway speed. You are said to be Underway, not making way. There’s a difference.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

You boys think what you want and go ahead and operate at 6 MPH through a NWZ with a NHMP boat sitting there and smile. Just keep in mind that beginning 1 Jan 2009 a misinterpretation of this law on your part will mean a moving violation on your drivers license record.

Airwaves...

I have absolutely no problem going by an NHMP boat at 6MPH in any NWZ...

A little back story... Earlier this season right around Bike Week I was travelling thru the Weirs Channel from Paugus Bay to Weirs. I was following a HUGE SeaRay cruiser and there was one of the NHMP RIB's 2 boats behind me. The SeaRay was going up the channel at approximately 1-1.5 MPH (GPS) essentially the DEAD SLOW speed for this particular SeaRay (there was no boat in front of him for at least 600') This monster SeaRay was causing a backup of boating traffic, neccessitating myself and others to needlessly shift in and out of gear and reducing my ability to maintain steerage against the current. (Just for the record, DEAD SLOW on my boat is 3.5-3.9 MPH on the GPS) Needless to say I was rather agitated, so upon clearing the exit of the Channel I flagged over the NHMP boat and ASKED specifically what their interpretaion of the NWZ rule was....

I was told and I quote "NO WAKE DOES NOT MEAN DEAD SLOW" They completely understood why I was somewhat agitated... during the course of the 5 minute conversation, the NHMP officer explained the rules to me the same way Skip described it above. The No Wake Rule was a 6MPH guideline, as some boats do in fact need to travel faster than 6 MPH to maintain steerage. The NHMP officer nicely explained to me that "If you need to travel faster than 6MPH in a NWZ you better have a darn good explanation!"

All boats create a wake regardless of speed, a wake is created by water being displaced by the hull, a larger heavier boat under most circumstances will create a larger more powerful wake than a smaller lighter boat traveling at the same speed. 6 MPH or 5 Knots is the compromise made in order to keep boat traffic flowing safely and smoothly...

Woodsy

[Winnipesaukee]

Okay, you are all wrong.

Headway speed is 6 mph or the slowest speed to travel and still maintain steerage."

If your boat can maintain steerage at 3mph, then you can go up to 6mph. 6mph is the limit for boats which can maintain steerage under that speed.

If your boat can only maintain steerage at 10mph, then you obviously can't safely operate at 6mph, so you must proceed under the second part of this clause, and your limit is 10mph.

It's pretty simple.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

Okay, you are all wrong.



If your boat can maintain steerage at 3mph, then you can go up to 6mph. 6mph is the limit for boats which can maintain steerage under that speed.

If your boat can only maintain steerage at 10mph, then you obviously can't safely operate at 6mph, so you must proceed under the second part of this clause, and your limit is 10mph.

It's pretty simple.

You simplified the rule perfectly!!! Thanks!

Woodsy

[Winnipesaukee]

Now let's make it complicated.

That minimum speed a boat must maintain can change given the conditions.

Take, for example, a 4mph current to the Lakeport dam (it's a crazy spring). If you're going into Paugus Bay, and your little 15' Whaler needs water moving under its rudder at 3mph to maintain steerage. So since you're going with the current, your speed over ground will need to be 7mph: 4mph with the current and 3mph more to get water moving over the rudder.

It's kind of like walking on one of those airport walkways. You're walking at your normal speed, but that plus the speed of the walkway makes you move much faster.

Now, let's say you're in your Whaler in the above conditions, with a following sea with 2 foot waves. You need 10mph to maintain steerage. Illegal? What if you're in a NWZ on Lake ABC in Xyz, New Hampshire that has a following current of 10mph? Do you need to throw your boat in reverse to stay under 6mph?

Generally, as a rule of thumb when powerboating in a NWZ, I make a wake as big as the waves I'm in, and speed is irrelevant. By this I mean that my wake can be seen feet off my stern but "blends in" with the water past that.

This generally means that a) my wake isn't more damaging than the natural waves are, if at all, and b) I can maintain a good amount of steerage at that speed. I don't know how legal this is, but I've done this on several bodies of water, past law enforcement and property owners, and have never had any issues.


Okay, how about this... I'm sailing zig-zag upwind in a NWZ with an average speed of 12mph, but a velocity made good of 5mph. Is that illegal?

[chipj29]

Does anyone really think the MP would or even could use a radar gun to track speeds of boaters in a NWZ? Or is simple observation good enough? Seriously, 6 +/- 2 mph, you can't tell the difference. Boat speedos are not that accurate. The only difference could be the size of the wake.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

...
Okay, how about this... I'm sailing zig-zag upwind in a NWZ with an average speed of 12mph, but a velocity made good of 5mph. Is that illegal?

Please, all my sailing buddies tell me that sailboats don't make wakes. You can go as fast as you want as long as the sails are up.

[Airwaves]

A couple of quick comments then I think I've had enough.

Originally posted by Winnipesaukee
If your boat can maintain steerage at 3mph, then you can go up to 6mph. 6mph is the limit for boats which can maintain steerage under that speed.

If your boat can only maintain steerage at 10mph, then you obviously can't safely operate at 6mph, so you must proceed under the second part of this clause, and your limit is 10mph.

It's pretty simple.

I am in total agreement with the second paragraph, not the first.

Originally posted by Woodsy
...I flagged over the NHMP boat and ASKED specifically what their interpretaion of the NWZ rule was....

It has been my observation over the decades of boating on Winnipesaukee, and in the past few years of reading this forum that consistency is not one of the strong points of the NHMP.

As one example I remind you of the email that I sent to the NHMP asking about the Boat Wise NASBLA certificate and whether it was recognized in NH. The NHMP wrote back saying NO private agency certificates were recognized NASBLA approved or not...I passed that information along to a friend who had a Boat Wise certificate, he went up and took the proctored examine in NH and the NHMP proctor told him they would have certainly accepted the Boat Wise certificate. Asking the NHMP is not going to guarantee you the correct answer!

Originally posted by Winnipesaukee
That minimum speed a boat must maintain can change given the conditions.

Without reposting your entire comments, you are correct. There are times in when a boat, even one with a headway speed of below 6 MPH, can exceed that speed in order to maintain steerage way. That is the clause that everyone seems to be ignoring...

Originally posted by Chipj29
Does anyone really think the MP would or even could use a radar gun to track speeds of boaters in a NWZ? Or is simple observation good enough? Seriously, 6 +/- 2 mph, you can't tell the difference. Boat speedos are not that accurate. The only difference could be the size of the wake.

That gets to the crux of the problem. A NHMP officer is going to visually determine your speed through a NWZ. If he decides you are violating the NWZ you could end up with a ticket and next year a ticket will become a moving violation on your driving record.

Because of that added little bonus to the new law, a district court judge is ultimately going to rule on this, create a precedent and thereby clarify the law.

Because of the lack of the word "SHALL" anywhere in the RSA, and what appears to me to be the INTENT of the RSA is to establish the definition of Headway Speed that forces a boat to maintain the slowest possible speed through a NWZ, it is pretty clear to me that the 6 MPH speed is guide, not a hard and fast speed to be traveled.

Don't forget, this added bonus of the new law covers the entire state of NH, not just Winnipesaukee and also applies to the safe passage law.

As I said, you do what you want but me? I am going to err on the side of caution and let someone else be the test case.

[jrc]

Airwaves, we will have to just agree to disagree on how to interpret the words.

I do agree with you that "discretion is the better part of valor"

Given our new law promoting certain boat infractions to be auto insurance effecting, I will not recklessly test the limits of our Marine Patrol.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...Because of that added little bonus to the new law, a district court judge is ultimately going to rule on this, create a precedent and thereby clarify the law...

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, neither precedent nor case law is determined at the District Court level.

Precedent and case law can and is set on appeals to higher courts, however most of the boating regulations we are discussing here are merely violations and not appealable to higher court (changed a number of years ago).

Even within the same District Court, one justice's opinion on a matter does not set precedent with other judges within the same Court, or any other District Court.

Oops..one exception. A Judge is free (and often does) set personal precedent on similar cases he may have come before him under similar circumstances!

[Airwaves]

As I posted somewhere, I am not debating the judical system in NH. The courts set precedent, not the officer issuing a ticket.

An example, even on the district court level.

Skip you are handed a ticket for violation of the Headway Speed provision. You go to district court and the judge agrees with your interpretation of the law and dismisses the case.

A couple of weeks later I find myself in the same position, but my judge is different from yours and decides that because my boat will do less than 6 mph and still maintains steerage way, that I violated headway speed and I am found guilty.

Do you not think my lawyer will use your case in the argument before the court?

As for not being appealable I would say a sharp lawyer would be able to argue that because the penalty for violation of 270-D has been increased then the appeals process is subject to review.

On thing that is taken into account, even on the district court level, is the intent of the law especailly if it appears to contradict itself.

A district court judge may not actually set the precedent but the process of setting a precedent certainly starts there and will ultimately be set by a judge.

As I said, you do what you want but I interpret the key provision of 270-D1 VI as the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.