Laconia Daily Sun Letter

[VtSteve]

The biggest problem I have with people that deal like that are statements like this.

45 miles per hour in the daytime
and 25 miles per hour in the nighttime
proved plenty fast enough for all
safe and reasonable boating. AND WE
FINALLY HAD A SUMMER WITHOUT
A HIGH-SPEED TRAGEDY.
No boaters were run over this year,
no boats crashed up onto islands, no
speeding boats lost control and fl ipped
over. But then, isn’t that what most of
us expected?

When was the last time Winnipesaukee had a HIGH-SPEED TRAGEDY?
I also note that while he applauds the MP, they don't support his view of the lake.


Regardless of anyone's personal view on the SL, or the lake in general, why do people have to lie? Is this what the WINFABs group is all about? I think the biggest thing I have against people and groups like that, is they lack character. For me, that's the worst thing I can say about someone, and it amounts to ZERO respect.

I listen to viewpoints, try not to interpret things to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion, and can admit being wrong if I just am wrong. But I don't suffer lies well. If your arguments and positions can't stand on their own merits, possibly you should change them.

If the facts are presented in that paper, he'd look like the fool he is.

[Kracken]

This is truly the Theatre Of The Absurd

Putting aside the numerous bold face lies in this article, I can only hope this was an editorial and not being passed off as actual news because it has no basis in fact.

Speed limits are not the reason the lake is quieter this year.

It has been stated correctly many times in this forum and in the real news that the traffic is down due to the weather and the economy.

1. Weather
There were only a handful of weekends all summer that were rain/wind/thunderstorm free. While this may not stop lakefront property owners from boating it would surely stop day boaters. Downing’s Landing should have had a great year with the closing of the ramps at Ames Farm. I spoke with the former train conductor at Dawning’s and he confirmed it was a horrible year. There were only a couple of days this summer they were full.

2. Economy
I have heard the argument over and over that gas is 3 bucks on the lake and last year it was almost 5 bucks so it’s really not the economy.

BULL HOCKEY

This year more people are unemployed but that is not the big factor. Most Americans are fearful of becoming unemployed and in this economy the prospect of finding a new job is scary at best. A two dollar decrease in gas price is meaningless compared to people not knowing if or when their next paycheck will come.

Giving credit to a silly law for making the lake quieter and safer is moronic and irresponsible. I realize the people who supported the limits are happy with their victory and do not want to give up something they fought so hard for. But do not fabricate results to justify your position. If the speed limit supporters wanted to extend the law because any data this year is tainted due to the decreased traffic I would completely understand it and even support it. But to claim its working??? The facts do not substantiate this.

I hope somebody here will send a letter to the editor to counter the original article.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

.... When was the last time Winnipesaukee had a HIGH-SPEED TRAGEDY?.....

It was LAST YEAR!

You may have a different definition of "high-speed", but any speed that is a lot more than conditions allow meets mine.


This Letter to the Editor is a perfect example of the arguments the opposition must overcome. And quite frankly, that is all but impossible.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

This Letter to the Editor is a perfect example of the arguments the opposition must overcome. And quite frankly, that is all but impossible.

I'm not going to debate the high speed thing, but I will point out that the current bill, as passed, is set to expire at the end of 2010. At this point, there is nothing that opponents to the SL must overcome. This is the proponents fight.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It was LAST YEAR!

You may have a different definition of "high-speed", but any speed that is a lot more than conditions allow meets mine.


This Letter to the Editor is a perfect example of the arguments the opposition must overcome. And quite frankly, that is all but impossible.

Bear Islander....

If your definition of hi-speed is based on prevailing conditions, then you would have to agree that there are times and places on the Lake where the prevailing conditions would allow for Hi-Performance boats to run free of restriction....

For example the Broads on a day like today.... Bluebird weather, unlimited visibility and nary a boat out there!

There is very little doubt (IMHO) that the boat was travelling too fast for the prevailing conditions that fateful night. This accident appears (to me) to meet the burden of proof for Coast Guard Rule 6 (that NH NEEDS to adopt) and NH Negligent Operation/Failure to Keep a Proper Lookout. The effect that HB-847 would have, should have, could have had on that fateful night is still very unclear.

The NHMP has yet to make the accident report public, so we dont know the estimated speed of the boat at impact. We do not know her BAC. Its entirely possible she was traveling at 25MPH or less when the boat struck the island. If thats the case then HB-847 would have had no effect on the tragic outcome...

But she could quite possibly be in violation of other PRE-EXISTING LAWS!


Woodsy

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Bear Islander....

If your definition of hi-speed is based on prevailing conditions, then you would have to agree that there are times and places on the Lake where the prevailing conditions would allow for Hi-Performance boats to run free of restriction....

For example the Broads on a day like today.... Bluebird weather, unlimited visibility and nary a boat out there!

There is very little doubt (IMHO) that the boat was travelling too fast for the prevailing conditions that fateful night. This accident appears (to me) to meet the burden of proof for Coast Guard Rule 6 (that NH NEEDS to adopt) and NH Negligent Operation/Failure to Keep a Proper Lookout. The effect that HB-847 would have, should have, could have had on that fateful night is still very unclear.

The NHMP has yet to make the accident report public, so we dont know the estimated speed of the boat at impact. We do not know her BAC. Its entirely possible she was traveling at 25MPH or less when the boat struck the island. If thats the case then HB-847 would have had no effect on the tragic outcome...

But she could quite possibly be in violation of other PRE-EXISTING LAWS!


Woodsy

Thanks Woodsy.

Personally I believe that Rule 6 would actually give MP more power and do much more to curb the issues we all want squelched. It's an example of a great compromise as those who have claimed that they were scared when a boat "passed by 150' away going 70MPH." The Marine Patrol COULD actually pull someone over for that and at the very least give them a warning and perhaps even a ticket. Rule 6 is actually way more subjective to the officer. An officer may suggest to the boater that his or her actions were not reasonable and prudent due to high boat traffic. At any rate it would most likely send a clear message to the Performance Boaters that they would quickly understand. If you want to go fast you'd better have the room and it may push those individuals to the broads. Just what we've all been pushing for all along.

Just my .02

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm not going to debate the high speed thing, but I will point out that the current bill, as passed, is set to expire at the end of 2010. At this point, there is nothing that opponents to the SL must overcome. This is the proponents fight.

Sorry, you are quite wrong.


The bill to make this permanent has already been written. If the opponents do not put up a fight then the bill to make speed limits permanent will quietly walk through the legislature. And in my opinion the only fight that has any chance at all is a compromise.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Sorry, you are quite wrong.


The bill to make this permanent has already been written. If the opponents do not put up a fight then the bill to make speed limits permanent will quietly walk through the legislature. And in my opinion the only fight that has any chance at all is a compromise.

Surprisingly all this talk and nothing has been filed.

[Pineedles]

Are you sure?

[EricP]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Surprisingly all this talk and nothing has been filed.

I am guessing his Island neighbor told him it is written, probably while sitting 'round the campfire. Of course everything a politician says is fact, right?
She has more important things to worry about, like getting re-elected and if I have anything to do about it she won't.

[Rinkerfam]

Woodsy, when you mention "pre-existing laws" you summed up my argument since day one. I must have been on a different Winnipesaukee than all of the SL supporters this summer. When the weather was nice it was a mad-house out there. (By mad-house I don't mean the number of boats out there or the speeds that they were traveling). I'm sure I wasn't the only boat that had other vessels pass at distances far less than 150'. I'm sure that I wasn't the only boat that had to surrender to a "give-way vessel" numerous times. I'm also sure that I wasn't the only one to be horrified at all the boats traveling through the Governor's/Eagle NWZ just below planing speed creating monster wakes while the MP looked on without care. Maybe the SL supporters are among those who don't know what 150' means. Maybe the SL supporters are among those who don't know who is the "stand-on or give-way vessel" in a given situation. Otherwise it would stand to reason that they would be complaining about those safety concerns as well. I guess as far as the SL supporters are concerned having a boat pass by them at 50' is ok as long as it isn't going more than 45mph. Heck, we could really streamline things by doing away with all of the existing boating laws other than HB 847 since it is apparently the only law we need to be safe. What a fool I am for not realizing this sooner.

[KTO]

It's a good thing that letters to the editor are only opinion. Unfortunate that this lacked any fact, though.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by Rinkerfam

Woodsy, when you mention "pre-existing laws" you summed up my argument since day one. I must have been on a different Winnipesaukee than all of the SL supporters this summer. When the weather was nice it was a mad-house out there. (By mad-house I don't mean the number of boats out there or the speeds that they were traveling). I'm sure I wasn't the only boat that had other vessels pass at distances far less than 150'. I'm sure that I wasn't the only boat that had to surrender to a "give-way vessel" numerous times. I'm also sure that I wasn't the only one to be horrified at all the boats traveling through the Governor's/Eagle NWZ just below planing speed creating monster wakes while the MP looked on without care. Maybe the SL supporters are among those who don't know what 150' means.

I'm with you on this one. Far too often my only problem with boats going too fast have been those violating the 150' rule.

Twice within a period of half an hour a Captain Bonehead passed too close, on the first occasion almost swamping my boat.

My father-in-law and I were on our way back to Smith Cove from Weirs Beach and as we were making our way (at headway speed) towards Governor's Island bridge, a boat passed between us and the shore at 'mush' speed. We were only 100' from the shoreline, so he was about 50-60' off the shore. His wake spilled over our transom and left almost a foot of water in the cockpit before it drained away into the bilge. (Thank goodness the bilge pump was able to get rid of it!)

The second incident took place after we had pumped the bilge dry and and made the turn towards the bridge but before we reached the No Wake zone. There was another boat about 80' ahead of us and the second Captain Bonehead was also heading towards the bridge and decided to 'thread the needle' between us while on plane.

Both were speeding but not in violation of the speed limit. They were speeding because they broke the 150' rule. I'll bet a wide majority of the so-called speeding incidents are really 150' rule violations.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Surprisingly all this talk and nothing has been filed.

In politics . . . . timing is everything!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

In politics . . . . timing is everything!

It most certainly is not. There's quite a bit of BS needed to really get silly things passed.

So they wait until the last moment, preferably when the big trial begins, and they flood the media with more silly stories and outright lies. You truly should be proud of yourself, and your cause BI. Truly.

[pm203]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

. . . . timing is everything!

Yes it is!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It was LAST YEAR!

You may have a different definition of "high-speed", but any speed that is a lot more than conditions allow meets mine.


This Letter to the Editor is a perfect example of the arguments the opposition must overcome. And quite frankly, that is all but impossible.

If the obvious factors of last year's accident prove true, I definitely agree with you BI, TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. I DO NOT disagree with you on that, but I do not sacrifice my character and values to paint it to support anyone's agenda either. I don't think anyone on this board has ever not supported that argument. Except for maybe 2BD, who rambled on and argued that the conditions were fine that night.

But to call that a HS accident, and then state that the lies published in that letter are hard to overcome, well I think perhaps you need to go back and take a hard look at everything.

So now you're delighted that the opposition has to overcome a series of lies and misstatements? I quite honestly thought you were better than that BI. I really did.

[EricP]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It was LAST YEAR!

So it's been proven that speed was the cause? Did I miss the court case?
Give me a break, that is your opinion, not fact. Weak arguement at best.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by EricP

So it's been proven that speed was the cause? Did I miss the court case?
Give me a break, that is your opinion, not fact. Weak arguement at best.

Do you honestly think there's any possibility she was going headway speed or less? Considering she hit it, she was obviously within 150' of the island. I think we can all agree she was going well over the existing speed limit at the time.

[fatlazyless]

This Lake Winnipesaukee forum is really something........one guy writes a well written letter to the editor........normally a letter disappears after one day or so as the old paper gets thrown out. Here on
the forum, it gets analyzed, bisected, disected, refuted and discussed for days. It has staying power as it hangs around and hangs around..

Interesting medium.....a high speed internet forum......lol ......and don't forget.....going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed......it is a very fast speed......how fast do you need to go?


Never could understand all 'the need for speed' anyway.......a motorboat is a machine....amd for most all boats just going 45mph is very very fast.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

and don't forget.....going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed......it is a very fast speed......how fast do you need to go?

I cut and pasted from another thread because I didn't want to write it out all over again... but I still stand by this:


You mention that 45 is fast enough... What I find again is that many opinions are based on the individual owners determination of "fast" based on their own boat. For example if you have a 21 foot 1982 Century with a 260, when the boat is a WOT (wide open throttle) it gets up to approx. 46mph. The boat is bouncing around and is very loud in comparrison to its normal cruising speed of 30ish. With my boat cruising at 3600 rpms I will be at 50 mph. At that speed I am perfectly comfortable and well in control. Passengers can talk and have sodas while enjoying the lake. So that being said it is a very reasonable speed for me. Where an individual with a boat that is 17 feet long crusing comfortably at 22 mph that gets passed by me may not realize it feels the same.

I have discussed limits for years now with individuals. In many situations those in favor of limits (even once with a MP officer) I offer to take them for a ride. In doing so we go across "cruising" and they are astounded the control and how slow you feel you are going in a performance boat at 45 or 55 mph.

It becomes upsetting to me and friends of mine, that those passing the laws and those in favor of limits have never been on or experienced a performance boat. Now you may have, but I am just making a generalization.

That being said, I invite you at anytime (once my boat is fixed) to take a ride if you have not experienced a performance boat ride. You may feel differently.

[fatlazyless]

,,,here's one way to solve the need for speed...and no offense intended...well. not too much offense anyway......I think you need a smaller boat.....smaller boats get you closer to the water and more in sync with the wind & waves....instead of just powering through the water a smaller boat is a totally different animal.


It gets better..... for the very reasonable price of $8500. let me sell you my 18' aluminum cabin cruisr, a 1974 Starcraft Starchief with a somewhat late model Japanese 4-stroke 70hp outboard......the ultimate Lake Winnipesaukee cruiser....and capable of handling any waves, anywhere on the Big Lake. Much better than a 28' Baja 1200hp .....and just $8500 w/ a trailer! Cruise along all day on just six gallons....with a planing speed of maybe 18mph?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

,,,here's one way to solve the need for speed...and no offense intended...well. not too much offense anyway......I think you need a smaller boat.....smaller boats get you closer to the water and more in sync with the wind & waves....instead of just powering through the water a smaller boat is a totally different animal.


It gets better..... for the very reasonable price of $8500. let me sell you my 18' aluminum cabin cruisr, a 1974 Starcraft Starchief with a somewhat late model Japanese 4-stroke 70hp outboard......the ultimate Lake Winnipesaukee cruiser....and capable of handling any waves, anywhere on the Big Lake. Much better than a 28' Baja 1200hp .....and just $8500 w/ a trailer! Cruise along all day on just six gallons....with a planing speed of maybe 18mph?

LOL.... thank you for the offer but I have waited my whole life for a boat like this, and been saving for 4 years to get her... I understand your premise of getting a boat that suits the lake. I have been in huge GFB's on the lake topping off over 100mph and while that is perfectly safe to do the lake seems to get very small for boats like that. That is why most are used not only on the lake but elsewhere in the country. My 28 still feels good on the lake and is fun in the broads on a very windy day. However, I didn't buy the boat strictly for the lake. I use it up and down the east coast but Lake Winni is my home. I grew up there and my family has been on the lake for 2 generations. I as well as everyone on this forum obviously has a great attachment to the lake or we wouldn't care so much either way. So in my case, selling my boat wouldn't be an option ever!... I got my dream and plan on having her the next 20 years.

But I will keep your boats in mind if I hear of someone looking.

PS. the ride offer next season still stands!

[KTO]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

one guy writes a well written letter to the editor........

Well written? Wouldn't that include facts? In college, I'm required to submit a works cited (reference) page when I use facts in any of my papers. I'd like to see the author of this letter works cited page, unless of course this is common knowledge...

[Rattlesnake Guy]

If it's only about politics. And we all know that politics are all about power, money and getting reelected. How do we identify and fund the replacements who might have a more "traditional" and measured approach on the subject of over reaching need for regulation.

More logic abuse.

If speed limit = fewer boats this year.
And
Worse world wide economy this year,
then is
the speed limit the cause of the worse economy?
or
could the worse economy impact number of boats?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed......it is a very fast speed......how fast do you need to go...and for most all boats just going 45mph is very very fast..."

Among the NH Marine Patrol boats best equipped for emergencies, can any exceed 50-MPH?

In an emergency, at what speed would NHMP need to go and not pose an additional peril to public safety?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

In an emergency, at what speed would NHMP need to go and not pose an additional peril to public safety?

That would depend on the situation. Wide open areas, on a day with excellent visibility, and and MP officer at the helm with skills and experience would safely allow much higher speeds than narrow congested areas traversed at night, in the fog, by a rookie.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Rattlesnake Guy

If it's only about politics. And we all know that politics are all about power, money and getting reelected.

Something the legislatative supporters of the Speed Limit law should keep in mind this time around...the complete abandonment of WinnFabs and their supporters of Sen Kenney when it came time for them to step up when he ran against Gov Lynch.

I don't know if the landslide victory by Lynch set a record or not, but the support for Kenney by WinnFabs and their kind evaporated when he needed it!

Sounds like WinnFabs and the like are fair weather friends that can't be counted on to me!

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Originally posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Something the legislative supporters of the Speed Limit law should keep in mind this time around...the complete abandonment of WinnFabs and their supporters of Sen Kenney when it came time for them to step up when he ran against Gov Lynch.

I don't know if the landslide victory by Lynch set a record or not, but the support for Kenney by WinnFabs and their kind evaporated when he needed it!

Sounds like WinnFabs and the like are fair weather friends that can't be counted on to me!

The reality is, there really are not many WinnFabs people. The few core members are very well organized and have been able to raise funds based upon their mis-truths and misrepresentations. They are also able to get support for their side from voters that have no idea of what is happening other than the horror stories from WinnFabs spin doctors.

A good portion of the WinnFabs supporters cannot vote in New Hampshire. Other than the smoke and mirrors publicity that has fooled many good people, there is no big organization. WinnFabs is a House-of-Cards.

They can write a bunch of crap and get it into the local papers and that is very effective. However, those who are actually on the lake know the truth.

We have to get our word out and get more organized. Other than on these threads, we are the silent, but truthful, majority!

R2B

[KTO]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

We have to get our word out and get more organized. Other than on these threads, we are the silent, but truthful, majority!

R2B

I just wrote a letter to the editor. Now I just need to send it.

[VtSteve]

That hardly anyone can answer these questions

Feel free to chime in Mr. Weeks

1. How many high-speed accidents/fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee since 1980?

2. How many fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee involving kayaks/canoes/small-craft fishing boats?

This year alone, the amount of fatalities during early fishing season is astronomical. Perhaps seatbelts in these boats is the answer.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

That hardly anyone can answer these questions

Feel free to chime in Mr. Weeks

1. How many high-speed accidents/fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee since 1980?

2. How many fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee involving kayaks/canoes/small-craft fishing boats?

This year alone, the amount of fatalities during early fishing season is astronomical. Perhaps seatbelts in these boats is the answer.

In this forum, I have learned to be careful when asking question #1. You have to specifically ask for accidents directly caused by excessive speeds. Otherwise, they will say that the Littlefield accident was caused by excessive speed, when we all know what the real cause was.

[fatlazyless]

The same letter was in yesterday's Sunday Concord Monitor as a "My Turn" guest opinion.

Believe the legislative session runs from January to June, unless a special session gets called for in Sept-Oct-Nov-Dec or something.

Doesn't New Hampshire already have a designated go-fast lake.......Lake Winnisquam....which comes fully equipped with the Winnisquam Trading Post.....which has its own dock and sells all the good stuff....beer, ciggies, lottery tickets....and fishing bait.....and a brand new double ramp, freebie state boat launch in Laconia. Why go anywhere else? Go Winnisquam.........understand it has no big bad rocks to mangle the props.....how good is that? And, at 4238 acres it has planty room to run at wide open throttle.

[fatlazyless]

Today's Laconia Daily Sun has another well written letter in support of the speed limit titled "The Go-Fast-Be-Loud Brotherhood is plotting a comeback" Different author than the above letter and runs on a similar........chug-chug-chug........ train of thought.


...and the public relations plot twists and turns......


What say you all fast boaters just seek out some local state reps' political support for a high speed Winni venue which could be either a marked off area or a specific time to include the entire lake such as every Friday or something. Like. why not just have Alton Bay legislatively declared to be the designated GO-FAST ZONE. Most all the state reps in Alton are good Republicans who are against any type of regulations, and have accepted contributions from the NH boat marina lobbyist so's just say "let's go to Alton Bay.....and push that throttle ahead to wide open......live free or die......hey..............vroooom vroom Alton Bay!"

[OCDACTIVE]

And it was written by no other then Ed Chase of Meredith.

It is actually comical. He is warning the Sun from listening to others that oppose the law.

There is so much made up rehtoric I don't even know where to begin....... check it out for yourselves...

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

And it was written by no other then Ed Chase of Meredith.

It is actually comical. He is warning the Sun from listening to others that oppose the law.

There is so much made up rehtoric I don't even know where to begin....... check it out for yourselves...

I haven't looked at today's Laconia Daily Sun yet but I assume there was no letter opposing the Speed Limit?

If anyone sent a letter and it was rejected (not published), then post it here and all supporters should ask why The Laconia Daily Sun is taking sides, by barraging the LDS with letters! If there was no letter submitted, then all of you who are against the SL are going to get, Speed Limits on Winnipesaukee. S.L.O.W., the new law! Forever!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Doesn't New Hampshire already have a designated go-fast lake.......

We used to......

[NoRegrets]

FLL – Before you start to take bows and accolades for the pro-speed limit perspective and the lack of the capability of the masses of voters to be convinced of your position I would like you to reflect on some of the current issues that may prove you to bit premature in your celebration.

I think the tolerance of the country is changing and more people are paying attention to what is making our country become sloppy and unable to compete on the international field. Many of your posts have been about the excesses of people in the McMansions (everyone should live on a ¼ acre with 5 rooms), big cruisers (buy my 28 ft tub), freebees for all, and how we should all aspire to shop at Walmart, business closures and empty property, and so on. The legal sleaziness that is prevalent in our country is destroying what made us America! This new political experiment by the liberal political majority is quickly being exposed for what it is! A power hungry group of politicians that have no clue on how to run anything. They are in trouble and I hope they have a true awakening that not only shocks them but the world. The next election will be telling!

There are many that hold true to freedoms and constitutional rights that are at the core of our country that should be motivated to action and expose the intent of the few as something akin to the deceptive ploys of ACORN. I salute the forum members from both sides and believe the truth will win. The silent majority that were magically convinced that we needed a speed limit will become more cognizant of the issue next time. This will become apparent as marches and controlled marches on our politician’s offices and Washington continue to demand we get back to the fundamentals and stop the financial and moral bankrupting of our nation. This will hopefully be the top perspective when this speed issue is back on the docket and then we will get back to bonehead issues and not this arbitrary attack on the GF type boats. Have a good night.

[VitaBene]

Elchase, the only bombarding seems to be from the SL proponents. Please remember that just because someone hails from a different part of the country does not mean they do not have propoerty or another vested interest in this area.

The Go-Fast-Be-Loud Brotherhood is plotting a comeback
To the editor,
The letter from Mr. Week was great .
. . spot on. I’ve been seeing and saying
the same all summer. Almost all my
friends and neighbors agree. Anyone
who has been on the lake this summer
and does not have an agenda and is
not blind simply has to agree. But just
a warning to the Sun and its readers,
the offshore boating internet forums
are abuzz about the letter and are planning
to bombard The Sun with letters
claiming the opposite is true. They need
to paint the picture that the speed limit
had no effect, or that it somehow had a
negative one — that it somehow made
things crazier, faster and less safe. (You
can’t make this stuff up). Some will
say the law is overbearing and makes
them go too slow for the designs or safe
operation of their boats. Others will be
claiming the opposite and saying that
it did nothing and was just a waste of
law enforcement efforts. Others will say
the Marine Patrol did not even bother
trying to enforce it and that it is just
a waste or space on our statues that
should removed to keep them pure of
unnecessary laws.
All these arguments directly contradicting
each other might be amusing,
but the point is that The Sun must be
careful to watch where these letters
are coming from. Most of these people
are from elsewhere, members of the
national Go-Fast-Be-Loud brotherhood
that bands together to help
each other fight similar laws around
the country. Most may have never
even been on Winnipesaukee. Please
screen them carefully. Please keep
this debate limited to real people from
the region. While there is nothing
wrong with hearing opposing views
from our neighbors, you don’t want to
see your paper become another forum
confiscated by the national Go-Fast-
Be-Loud crowd.
At the end of the day, what we have
is a law that was requested by the
citizens of NH (who own Winnipesaukee)
and they are saying “Thank
you . . . It works great . . . It did just
what we wanted and expected. . . We
love it . . . Please keep it.” And on the
other hand, you have the group of
loud and aggressive cowboys whose
very behavior the law was aimed to
modify saying, “It is not working . . . It
is not slowing us down . . . It has not
changed our behavior one bit . . . but
please end it anyway.”
Who is one to believe? Methinks
they doth protest too much. The more
they object to the law, the more they
accidentally admit that it is working
and giving us just what we needed.
And what a great summer we had.

[VtSteve]

Mr. Weeks and Mr. Chase say that the speed limit has transformed Winnipesaukee from a chaotic and accident-plagued lake to one of peace and harmony. All of their friends and neighbors say this as well.

How many believe this to be true? Why?

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

The legal sleaziness that is prevalent in our country is destroying what made us America! This new political experiment by the liberal political majority is quickly being exposed for what it is! A power hungry group of politicians that have no clue on how to run anything. They are in trouble and I hope they have a true awakening that not only shocks them but the world. The next election will be telling!

The words of NoRegrets are depressing. I heard the same said about the eight years of the last administration. Katrina, fooled into wars, screwed up the economy, made our allies mad, trashed the constitution etc. Talking about power hungry politicians that have no clue how to run anything is not new. We know the grass is not greener where we came from - now what? The recent discussions about safety and speeds on this forum are proof that new ideas can come from the citizens. What other problems can be rationally discussed? Daming those in power seems so much less effective than proposing solutions that can become the next campaign issues.

[fatlazyless]

Should the U.S. president and family decide to vacation next August by renting out a Winnipesaukee waterfront house for two weeks, as did France Prez Sarkozy, do you think they are more likely to go kayaking or power-boating and why? ...............

[sa meredith]

This post is in no way intended to be sarcastic, or funny.
Just a thought...
It's weird how some issues bother certain people to the Nth degree, and others could care less.
And then, on different subjects, the same people flip flop. The indifferent poeple become the passionate, and the passionate become the indifferent.

As I sit here reading this thread, I wonder why I've never thrown my hat in the ring in this debate. It indeed has been good fun to read over the past 1.5 years or so, but I guess I never truly cared one way or the other.
Speed limit/ No speed limit...either way, fine by me. (of course our boat can't reach much more than 50/52, so that's probably it).

But let someone say something in the restaurant thread that I disagree with, and I'll be out front leading the charge. And loving the confrontation (in good fun, of course).

Just human nature I guess. One man's garbage is another man's treasure...and all that good stuff.
OK, I'm done.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

"...I don't know if the landslide victory by Lynch set a record or not, but the support for Kenney by WinnFabs and their kind evaporated when he needed it...Sounds like WinnFabs and the like are fair weather friends that can't be counted on to me...!"

According to a telephone conversation I had with a Senator Kenney staffer, the Senator wasn't even lukewarm on the issue originally: perhaps the issue could have helped him, but any support he gave was too late.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

"...They have boats and PWC that can easily exceed 50 mph..."

Depending on conditions, I'd say that the MP06 boat (a "fast" MP boat) cannot exceed 55-MPH.

You and Dave R missed my point: If 55-MPH (max) is consistent with Public Safety, what is 90-MPH, but a blatant disregard for Public Safety?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

what is 90-MPH, but a blatant disregard for Public Safety?

If the boat can handle it and the conditions warrent why would this be an issue at all?

[OCDACTIVE]

That same letter rebutting Mr. Week's letter appeared in the Concord Monitor today under:

Summer wasn't a true test of speed limits.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I try to look at the LDS daily but if I miss any (either side of the discussion) let me know and I will look back at the archive and post them.

I guess we all should be looking at the Monitor and other papers as well.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

That same letter rebutting Mr. Week's letter appeared in the Concord Monitor today under:

Summer wasn't a true test of speed limits.

Here is the link http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...909240319/1017

And the letter:
As I was sitting at the Meredith town docks reading Jack Weeks's column concerning his support for the speed limit law on Lake Winnipesaukee ("All quiet on the big lake," Sunday Monitor Viewpoints, Sept. 20), a few things came to mind.

Weeks attributes the reduced boating activity to the success of the new speed limits. However, recent reports in all the local newspapers, not to mention statements from the Marine Patrol and marina owners, all said that boat traffic was way down this summer, not only on Lake Winnipesaukee, the only lake affected by the speed limits, but across the entire Lakes Region. Not surprising, given the economic recession and the poor weather in June, July and parts of August.

The economy has battered people's retirement accounts and home values, and the unemployment rate has risen to a two-decade high. Not exactly the environment one would expect a lake area to thrive in.

What surprised me the most was Weeks's statement that "We finally had a summer without a high-speed tragedy." This made me wonder, when was the last time a high-speed tragedy occurred on Lake Winnipesaukee? New Hampshire Marine Patrol accident statistics do not list a "high-speed tragedy" in recent memory.

As to his praise for the Marine Patrol, it well is deserved, since their budgets are not thriving in this economy. But I feel the praise was misplaced.

The Marine Patrol director is on the record at least twice in not supporting the speed limits. His reasoning? Speeding is not a problem on the lake. The tests on Winnipesaukee last year pretty much backed up the director's claims.

The law has a sunset provision, a given period of two years.

The supporters now want to make the law permanent, without any data to review. They know full well that the lake traffic this year was pretty low, not to mention that the data would clearly not support the speed limit.

Lake Winnipesaukee is a state treasure, not something that belongs to people with political or ideological agendas. It is a shared resource.

Before anyone buys into Weeks's drama concerning the chaos that has magically disappeared, perhaps you should ask him and the WinnFabs to support any of their previous claims that chaos of speeding boats ever existed in the first place! Drama belongs in the theater, not in the law-making process.

[OCDACTIVE]

To be fair there is also another small letter in the Laconia Daily Sun today from a supporter. Opinion is fine. He doesn't say anything inflameatory. The only issue again is he says they FEEL safer with the limits. Again laws are not supposed to make you feel safer they are supposed to make you safer... I can't stand redundant laws that accomplish nothing.....

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

To be fair there is also another small letter in the Laconia Daily Sun today from a supporter. Opinion is fine. He doesn't say anything inflameatory. The only issue again is he says they FEEL safer with the limits. Again laws are not supposed to make you feel safer they are supposed to make you safer... I can't stand redundant laws that accomplish nothing.....

I'm curious who keeps the count of canoes and kayaks on the lake? According to the author (who is probably a member of WinnFABS - IMO) there were "many" more non powered boats on the lake.

Seems to me it's just another ficticious statistic - similar to all of the high speed accidents from previous years.

[onlywinni]

Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm curious who keeps the count of canoes and kayaks on the lake? According to the author (who is probably a member of WinnFABS - IMO) there were "many" more non powered boats on the lake.

Seems to me it's just another ficticious statistic - similar to all of the high speed accidents from previous years.

Scare tactics, misinformation and right out lies-appear to be the tools utilized by the Extreme Speed Limit Supporters.

I have two questions:

-If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it still make a sound?

-If I blast across the broads at 65mph and no one is close enough to hear or see me are people still Traumitzed??????

[Woodsy]

Deleted....

Reason: Poor attempt at sarcastic humor! Sorry guys!

Woodsy

[codeman671]

Woodsy, I am not sure where you were trying to end up with your post. Onlywinni was criticizing supporters of the limit. Maybe you misinterpreted the post, or am I?

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

OnlyWinni...

I think your a bit off here.... perhaps you need to look up the definition?? I will do it for you...

Main Entry: trau·ma·tize
Pronunciation: \-ˌtīz\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): trau·ma·tized; trau·ma·tiz·ing
Date: 1903
: to inflict a trauma upon


Main Entry: trau·ma
Pronunciation: \ˈtrau̇-mə, ˈtrȯ-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural traumas also trau·ma·ta \-mə-tə\
Etymology: Greek traumat-, trauma wound, alteration of trōma; akin to Greek titrōskein to wound, tetrainein to pierce — more at throw
Date: circa 1693
1 a : an injury (as a wound) to living tissue caused by an extrinsic agent b : a disordered psychic or behavioral state resulting from severe mental or emotional stress or physical injury c : an emotional upset
2 : an agent, force, or mechanism that causes trauma


Of course a tree falling in the forest makes noise so what? What is your point? Nobody was there to witness/hear the tree fall. Nobody will be TRAUMATIZED by this event.... I suppose you walk in the forest just waiting for a tree to fall on you?

On the same note, blasting across the Broads at 65MPH TRAUMATIZES nobody! How can a boat minding its own business inflict any kind of trauma (with exception to the driver/passengers) regardless of what speed it travels? Especially if there isnt anyone around to witness the event!

If I were to apply your logic, you are probably too TRAUMATIZED to operate any sort of motor vehicle on the public roads even though there are speed limits and traffic rules (just as there are on the lake). I mean if 65 is too fast for a boat how do you ever drive on a highway?? Where (GASP) people routinely drive faster than the posted speeds and accidents occur?

Woodsy

This was an obviously poor attempt at sarcastic humor and was certainly not intended to insult OnlyWinni... I would feel awful if I traumatized him. It was an attempt to be sarcastic towards the logic often used by the speed limit supporters.....

Sorry if I offended in any way!

Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

If the boat can handle it and the conditions warrent why would this be an issue at all?

The Marine Patrol's Public Safety officers meet emergency requirements with much less than 55-MPH—perhaps with an MP fleet-average of only 45-MPH. (!)

With emergencies met by Public Safety officers at an average speed of 45-MPH, what is 90-MPH—but a reckless disregard for the naïve boater who occasions Lake Winnipesaukee?
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[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Among the NH Marine Patrol boats best equipped for emergencies, can any exceed 50-MPH?

In an emergency, at what speed would NHMP need to go and not pose an additional peril to public safety?

They have boats and PWC that can easily exceed 50 mph.....

In the worst emergencies they actually do not call a boat... they get the coast guard helo's out of portsmouth.. those exceed 50 mph no problem.