Laconia Daily Sun Letter

[fatlazyless]

This Lake Winnipesaukee forum is really something........one guy writes a well written letter to the editor........normally a letter disappears after one day or so as the old paper gets thrown out. Here on
the forum, it gets analyzed, bisected, disected, refuted and discussed for days. It has staying power as it hangs around and hangs around..

Interesting medium.....a high speed internet forum......lol ......and don't forget.....going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed......it is a very fast speed......how fast do you need to go?


Never could understand all 'the need for speed' anyway.......a motorboat is a machine....amd for most all boats just going 45mph is very very fast.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

and don't forget.....going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed......it is a very fast speed......how fast do you need to go?

I cut and pasted from another thread because I didn't want to write it out all over again... but I still stand by this:


You mention that 45 is fast enough... What I find again is that many opinions are based on the individual owners determination of "fast" based on their own boat. For example if you have a 21 foot 1982 Century with a 260, when the boat is a WOT (wide open throttle) it gets up to approx. 46mph. The boat is bouncing around and is very loud in comparrison to its normal cruising speed of 30ish. With my boat cruising at 3600 rpms I will be at 50 mph. At that speed I am perfectly comfortable and well in control. Passengers can talk and have sodas while enjoying the lake. So that being said it is a very reasonable speed for me. Where an individual with a boat that is 17 feet long crusing comfortably at 22 mph that gets passed by me may not realize it feels the same.

I have discussed limits for years now with individuals. In many situations those in favor of limits (even once with a MP officer) I offer to take them for a ride. In doing so we go across "cruising" and they are astounded the control and how slow you feel you are going in a performance boat at 45 or 55 mph.

It becomes upsetting to me and friends of mine, that those passing the laws and those in favor of limits have never been on or experienced a performance boat. Now you may have, but I am just making a generalization.

That being said, I invite you at anytime (once my boat is fixed) to take a ride if you have not experienced a performance boat ride. You may feel differently.

[fatlazyless]

,,,here's one way to solve the need for speed...and no offense intended...well. not too much offense anyway......I think you need a smaller boat.....smaller boats get you closer to the water and more in sync with the wind & waves....instead of just powering through the water a smaller boat is a totally different animal.


It gets better..... for the very reasonable price of $8500. let me sell you my 18' aluminum cabin cruisr, a 1974 Starcraft Starchief with a somewhat late model Japanese 4-stroke 70hp outboard......the ultimate Lake Winnipesaukee cruiser....and capable of handling any waves, anywhere on the Big Lake. Much better than a 28' Baja 1200hp .....and just $8500 w/ a trailer! Cruise along all day on just six gallons....with a planing speed of maybe 18mph?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

,,,here's one way to solve the need for speed...and no offense intended...well. not too much offense anyway......I think you need a smaller boat.....smaller boats get you closer to the water and more in sync with the wind & waves....instead of just powering through the water a smaller boat is a totally different animal.


It gets better..... for the very reasonable price of $8500. let me sell you my 18' aluminum cabin cruisr, a 1974 Starcraft Starchief with a somewhat late model Japanese 4-stroke 70hp outboard......the ultimate Lake Winnipesaukee cruiser....and capable of handling any waves, anywhere on the Big Lake. Much better than a 28' Baja 1200hp .....and just $8500 w/ a trailer! Cruise along all day on just six gallons....with a planing speed of maybe 18mph?

LOL.... thank you for the offer but I have waited my whole life for a boat like this, and been saving for 4 years to get her... I understand your premise of getting a boat that suits the lake. I have been in huge GFB's on the lake topping off over 100mph and while that is perfectly safe to do the lake seems to get very small for boats like that. That is why most are used not only on the lake but elsewhere in the country. My 28 still feels good on the lake and is fun in the broads on a very windy day. However, I didn't buy the boat strictly for the lake. I use it up and down the east coast but Lake Winni is my home. I grew up there and my family has been on the lake for 2 generations. I as well as everyone on this forum obviously has a great attachment to the lake or we wouldn't care so much either way. So in my case, selling my boat wouldn't be an option ever!... I got my dream and plan on having her the next 20 years.

But I will keep your boats in mind if I hear of someone looking.

PS. the ride offer next season still stands!

[KTO]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

one guy writes a well written letter to the editor........

Well written? Wouldn't that include facts? In college, I'm required to submit a works cited (reference) page when I use facts in any of my papers. I'd like to see the author of this letter works cited page, unless of course this is common knowledge...

[Rattlesnake Guy]

If it's only about politics. And we all know that politics are all about power, money and getting reelected. How do we identify and fund the replacements who might have a more "traditional" and measured approach on the subject of over reaching need for regulation.

More logic abuse.

If speed limit = fewer boats this year.
And
Worse world wide economy this year,
then is
the speed limit the cause of the worse economy?
or
could the worse economy impact number of boats?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...going 45mph in a boat is hardly a slow speed......it is a very fast speed......how fast do you need to go...and for most all boats just going 45mph is very very fast..."

Among the NH Marine Patrol boats best equipped for emergencies, can any exceed 50-MPH?

In an emergency, at what speed would NHMP need to go and not pose an additional peril to public safety?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

In an emergency, at what speed would NHMP need to go and not pose an additional peril to public safety?

That would depend on the situation. Wide open areas, on a day with excellent visibility, and and MP officer at the helm with skills and experience would safely allow much higher speeds than narrow congested areas traversed at night, in the fog, by a rookie.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Rattlesnake Guy

If it's only about politics. And we all know that politics are all about power, money and getting reelected.

Something the legislatative supporters of the Speed Limit law should keep in mind this time around...the complete abandonment of WinnFabs and their supporters of Sen Kenney when it came time for them to step up when he ran against Gov Lynch.

I don't know if the landslide victory by Lynch set a record or not, but the support for Kenney by WinnFabs and their kind evaporated when he needed it!

Sounds like WinnFabs and the like are fair weather friends that can't be counted on to me!

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Originally posted by Rattlesnake Guy

Something the legislative supporters of the Speed Limit law should keep in mind this time around...the complete abandonment of WinnFabs and their supporters of Sen Kenney when it came time for them to step up when he ran against Gov Lynch.

I don't know if the landslide victory by Lynch set a record or not, but the support for Kenney by WinnFabs and their kind evaporated when he needed it!

Sounds like WinnFabs and the like are fair weather friends that can't be counted on to me!

The reality is, there really are not many WinnFabs people. The few core members are very well organized and have been able to raise funds based upon their mis-truths and misrepresentations. They are also able to get support for their side from voters that have no idea of what is happening other than the horror stories from WinnFabs spin doctors.

A good portion of the WinnFabs supporters cannot vote in New Hampshire. Other than the smoke and mirrors publicity that has fooled many good people, there is no big organization. WinnFabs is a House-of-Cards.

They can write a bunch of crap and get it into the local papers and that is very effective. However, those who are actually on the lake know the truth.

We have to get our word out and get more organized. Other than on these threads, we are the silent, but truthful, majority!

R2B

[KTO]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

We have to get our word out and get more organized. Other than on these threads, we are the silent, but truthful, majority!

R2B

I just wrote a letter to the editor. Now I just need to send it.

[VtSteve]

That hardly anyone can answer these questions

Feel free to chime in Mr. Weeks

1. How many high-speed accidents/fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee since 1980?

2. How many fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee involving kayaks/canoes/small-craft fishing boats?

This year alone, the amount of fatalities during early fishing season is astronomical. Perhaps seatbelts in these boats is the answer.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

That hardly anyone can answer these questions

Feel free to chime in Mr. Weeks

1. How many high-speed accidents/fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee since 1980?

2. How many fatalities have there been on Lake Winnipesaukee involving kayaks/canoes/small-craft fishing boats?

This year alone, the amount of fatalities during early fishing season is astronomical. Perhaps seatbelts in these boats is the answer.

In this forum, I have learned to be careful when asking question #1. You have to specifically ask for accidents directly caused by excessive speeds. Otherwise, they will say that the Littlefield accident was caused by excessive speed, when we all know what the real cause was.

[fatlazyless]

The same letter was in yesterday's Sunday Concord Monitor as a "My Turn" guest opinion.

Believe the legislative session runs from January to June, unless a special session gets called for in Sept-Oct-Nov-Dec or something.

Doesn't New Hampshire already have a designated go-fast lake.......Lake Winnisquam....which comes fully equipped with the Winnisquam Trading Post.....which has its own dock and sells all the good stuff....beer, ciggies, lottery tickets....and fishing bait.....and a brand new double ramp, freebie state boat launch in Laconia. Why go anywhere else? Go Winnisquam.........understand it has no big bad rocks to mangle the props.....how good is that? And, at 4238 acres it has planty room to run at wide open throttle.

[fatlazyless]

Today's Laconia Daily Sun has another well written letter in support of the speed limit titled "The Go-Fast-Be-Loud Brotherhood is plotting a comeback" Different author than the above letter and runs on a similar........chug-chug-chug........ train of thought.


...and the public relations plot twists and turns......


What say you all fast boaters just seek out some local state reps' political support for a high speed Winni venue which could be either a marked off area or a specific time to include the entire lake such as every Friday or something. Like. why not just have Alton Bay legislatively declared to be the designated GO-FAST ZONE. Most all the state reps in Alton are good Republicans who are against any type of regulations, and have accepted contributions from the NH boat marina lobbyist so's just say "let's go to Alton Bay.....and push that throttle ahead to wide open......live free or die......hey..............vroooom vroom Alton Bay!"

[OCDACTIVE]

And it was written by no other then Ed Chase of Meredith.

It is actually comical. He is warning the Sun from listening to others that oppose the law.

There is so much made up rehtoric I don't even know where to begin....... check it out for yourselves...

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

And it was written by no other then Ed Chase of Meredith.

It is actually comical. He is warning the Sun from listening to others that oppose the law.

There is so much made up rehtoric I don't even know where to begin....... check it out for yourselves...

I haven't looked at today's Laconia Daily Sun yet but I assume there was no letter opposing the Speed Limit?

If anyone sent a letter and it was rejected (not published), then post it here and all supporters should ask why The Laconia Daily Sun is taking sides, by barraging the LDS with letters! If there was no letter submitted, then all of you who are against the SL are going to get, Speed Limits on Winnipesaukee. S.L.O.W., the new law! Forever!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Doesn't New Hampshire already have a designated go-fast lake.......

We used to......

[NoRegrets]

FLL – Before you start to take bows and accolades for the pro-speed limit perspective and the lack of the capability of the masses of voters to be convinced of your position I would like you to reflect on some of the current issues that may prove you to bit premature in your celebration.

I think the tolerance of the country is changing and more people are paying attention to what is making our country become sloppy and unable to compete on the international field. Many of your posts have been about the excesses of people in the McMansions (everyone should live on a ¼ acre with 5 rooms), big cruisers (buy my 28 ft tub), freebees for all, and how we should all aspire to shop at Walmart, business closures and empty property, and so on. The legal sleaziness that is prevalent in our country is destroying what made us America! This new political experiment by the liberal political majority is quickly being exposed for what it is! A power hungry group of politicians that have no clue on how to run anything. They are in trouble and I hope they have a true awakening that not only shocks them but the world. The next election will be telling!

There are many that hold true to freedoms and constitutional rights that are at the core of our country that should be motivated to action and expose the intent of the few as something akin to the deceptive ploys of ACORN. I salute the forum members from both sides and believe the truth will win. The silent majority that were magically convinced that we needed a speed limit will become more cognizant of the issue next time. This will become apparent as marches and controlled marches on our politician’s offices and Washington continue to demand we get back to the fundamentals and stop the financial and moral bankrupting of our nation. This will hopefully be the top perspective when this speed issue is back on the docket and then we will get back to bonehead issues and not this arbitrary attack on the GF type boats. Have a good night.

[VitaBene]

Elchase, the only bombarding seems to be from the SL proponents. Please remember that just because someone hails from a different part of the country does not mean they do not have propoerty or another vested interest in this area.

The Go-Fast-Be-Loud Brotherhood is plotting a comeback
To the editor,
The letter from Mr. Week was great .
. . spot on. I’ve been seeing and saying
the same all summer. Almost all my
friends and neighbors agree. Anyone
who has been on the lake this summer
and does not have an agenda and is
not blind simply has to agree. But just
a warning to the Sun and its readers,
the offshore boating internet forums
are abuzz about the letter and are planning
to bombard The Sun with letters
claiming the opposite is true. They need
to paint the picture that the speed limit
had no effect, or that it somehow had a
negative one — that it somehow made
things crazier, faster and less safe. (You
can’t make this stuff up). Some will
say the law is overbearing and makes
them go too slow for the designs or safe
operation of their boats. Others will be
claiming the opposite and saying that
it did nothing and was just a waste of
law enforcement efforts. Others will say
the Marine Patrol did not even bother
trying to enforce it and that it is just
a waste or space on our statues that
should removed to keep them pure of
unnecessary laws.
All these arguments directly contradicting
each other might be amusing,
but the point is that The Sun must be
careful to watch where these letters
are coming from. Most of these people
are from elsewhere, members of the
national Go-Fast-Be-Loud brotherhood
that bands together to help
each other fight similar laws around
the country. Most may have never
even been on Winnipesaukee. Please
screen them carefully. Please keep
this debate limited to real people from
the region. While there is nothing
wrong with hearing opposing views
from our neighbors, you don’t want to
see your paper become another forum
confiscated by the national Go-Fast-
Be-Loud crowd.
At the end of the day, what we have
is a law that was requested by the
citizens of NH (who own Winnipesaukee)
and they are saying “Thank
you . . . It works great . . . It did just
what we wanted and expected. . . We
love it . . . Please keep it.” And on the
other hand, you have the group of
loud and aggressive cowboys whose
very behavior the law was aimed to
modify saying, “It is not working . . . It
is not slowing us down . . . It has not
changed our behavior one bit . . . but
please end it anyway.”
Who is one to believe? Methinks
they doth protest too much. The more
they object to the law, the more they
accidentally admit that it is working
and giving us just what we needed.
And what a great summer we had.

[VtSteve]

Mr. Weeks and Mr. Chase say that the speed limit has transformed Winnipesaukee from a chaotic and accident-plagued lake to one of peace and harmony. All of their friends and neighbors say this as well.

How many believe this to be true? Why?

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Mr. Weeks and Mr. Chase say that the speed limit has transformed Winnipesaukee from a chaotic and accident-plagued lake to one of peace and harmony. All of their friends and neighbors say this as well.

How many believe this to be true? Why?

I think the real reason 'peace and harmony' have appeared has little to do with the speed limit. Boat traffic in general is down. Ask anyone at the marinas, the gas docks, and the boat ramps, or ask the Marine Patrol. For the second season in a row boat traffic is down. This year there have been a large number of unrented slips, something I've never seen before. Quite a few of my friends ended up trailering their boats rather than renting slips. They didn't go out onto the lake nearly as often as they have in the past.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Ed Chase of Meredith.

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Mr. Chase

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Ed Chase

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Mr. Chase

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

"he who must not be named" or may return.....

You guys really need to stop obsessing. Do you have pictures of me lining the walls of your bedrooms too? Do you Google my name first thing every morning when you turn on your computers? You both apparently spend all your waking hours on this "Anti-Speed Limit" forum, so when do you get time for the hi-speed boating that you supposedly enjoy so much? All this mention of me just tempts me back, and I know you don't want these "Anti-Speed Limit" threads tainted by people who believe in the rule of law.

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

'peace and harmony' have appeared

Exactly.

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

chalk it up to the economy and sheer coincidence.

Could those really be the causes? Could "peace and harmony" really have reappeared because of some rain in June? Because of an economic recession? Nice theories, but I don't think so. Isn't it much more plausible that they returned because of the change in the law that forced a return to "peace and harmony"?

Here's a well-articulated story from the same paper that you guys conveniently missed that explains it better;
ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2009/9/29L.pdf

"For those who need to pilot a boat at 90 MPH, the ocean is nearby
To the editor,
The letters from Mr. Verdonk and
Mr. Stewart exemplify the problems
the high speed boating crowd faces
trying to find fault with a speed limit.
They just don’t know how to find a
problem with such a sensible law, so
they make things up.
While I appreciate that Mr. Stewart
at least had the fortitude to admit
that boaters slowed down because of
the speed limit, saying that the only
thing that did was erode her shoreline
is just plain silly. Why would a “ginormous”
boat going 45 erode her shoreline
and the same boat going 85 not?
If “ginormous” boats are going anything
over headway speed that close
to his shoreline, then he has other
causes to complain besides a speed
limit. If “ginormous” boats were going
that close to my shoreline, I certainly
wouldn’t want them to be going 85
MPH.
And as to Mr. Verdonk’s letter, it is
a common debating trick to start off
with a mischaracterization of your
opponent’s position, then disprove the
mischaracterization. But if one reads
Mr. Verdonk’s letter with my actual
statements in mind, it all falls apart.
I never “attribute the reduced boating
activity to the success of the new
speed limits” as he asserts to set up
his whole letter. In fact, as I said, I was
referring to the times I was seeing as
many if not more boats out there. Several
weekends in August the lake was
as crowded as I’ve ever seen it, but it
just FELT LIKE it was less crowded
because almost everyone was going
slower, as Ms. Stewart also saw. How
did the economy do that? More civility
during sunny days when the lake
is just as crowded has nothing to do
with the economy or bad weather. The
economy and rain might have affected
the boating numbers this year (at
times), but it could only have been the
speed limit that slowed them down, as
Mr. Stewart himself admits.
The typical Granite Stater new to
this whole discussion will ask how
anyone could rationalize opposition to
a reasonable limit of boating speeds
on a lake so crowded with such big
boats. But of course, those who make
a lot of money over-crowding our
lake with over-fast boats and those
who boast about the “need for speed”
are not your typical Granite Staters.
They don’t think rationally. Their selfish
interests and “needs” cloud their
common sense. And they are not interested
in the activities that most Granite
Staters enjoy or that NH wants to
offer tourists to attract them to come
here.
The brochures one picks up at our
rest stops show the natural beauty of
our state. Photos depict our beautiful
lakes and mountains as safe and
open to family recreational activities.
You see canoes and sailboats. You see
families water skiing and fishing. You
see loons and sunsets. Imagine how
many tourists we’d attract if those
brochures instead showed 6-ton boats
flying around at 80-90 mph amongst
the canoes and kayaks? That is not the
NH I grew up in, or that my summer
neighbors want to come to. For every
one tourist such an image attracts to
NH, it will send 100 somewhere else.
See what that does to our economy,
Mr. Verdonk.
Forty-five MPH is a very reasonable
top speed for a boat on Lake Winnipesaukee.
It’s the typical speed limit
on lakes like Winnipesaukee around
the country and has proven effective
over and over. There is not a single
lake-appropriate boating activity that
one cannot enjoy at 45 MPH. And for
those with “the need” to go 90 MPH,
the ocean is just 50 miles down the
road. Anyone who argues that 45 is
too slow for this lake, whether blaming
it on shore erosion, the economy,
the weather, or some other nonsensical
reason, is just not being honest.
As Mr. Chase’s letter said, the bottom
line is that NH’s citizens asked for the
law and seem to love its effects, while
the offenders are obviously unhappy
with it. How many laws can we say
that about? And doesn’t that prove it’s
working?
Jack Weeks
Meredith"


PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond.

[jmen24]

Elchase is apparently the type of person that truely enjoys having people talk about him. I would recommend that we do not continue to temp him back, discuss the subject of his posts and pretend that it came out of thin air, he will eventually get frustrated with not having anyone talk about him or his ideals.

[DEJ]

Actually we need to have elchase keep posting, IMO it clearly makes the case of the opposers to the speed limit.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Elchase is apparently the type of person that truely enjoys having people talk about him. I would recommend that we do not continue to temp him back, discuss the subject of his posts and pretend that it came out of thin air, he will eventually get frustrated with not having anyone talk about him or his ideals.

I have elchase on ignore.

Reading his posts became something I decided I no longer needed to do. If we all had him on ignore, the silence would be golden.

R2B

[gtagrip]

I've got to wonder if these letters submitted by Jack Weeks is also the same infamous "Fat Jack" from the prior speed limit debates back in 06' & 07'? and what possible screen name is he going by now???

[Kracken]

Mr. Chase / Mr. Favre

I have to admire your resiliency. We all understand your position on the speed limit. You wrote your editorials and you have a right to do that. Some speed limit opponents wrote their editorials and they had the right to as well.

I actually think you believe every word you have written. It’s not a lie if one believes its truth. Please give those who oppose you the same consideration.

[Gilligan]

I won't quote the entire letter but will highlight a few items. I'll also add a few comments in blue

Originally Posted by elchase

Here's a well-articulated story from the same paper that you guys conveniently missed that explains it better;
ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2009/9/29L.pdf

"For those who need to pilot a boat at 90 MPH, the ocean is nearby what about 60 mph?
To the editor,
The letters from Mr. Verdonk and
Mr. Stewart exemplify the problems
the high speed boating crowd faces
trying to find fault with a speed limit. Not A speed limit, THIS 45/25 mph limit
They just don’t know how to find a
problem with such a sensible law, so
they make things up. who decreed that this 45/25 mph is a sensible law?
While I appreciate that Mr. Stewart
at least had the fortitude to admit
that boaters slowed down because of
the speed limit, saying that the only
thing that did was erode her shoreline
is just plain silly. Why would a “ginormous”
boat going 45 erode her shoreline
and the same boat going 85 not? "ginormous" boat is a very prejudicial term. Fast boats come in all sizes. 16-21 feet is not "ginormous" and we know that slow going boats can PLOW leaving huge wakes that travel more than 150 feet while faster boats, on plane, can leave much smaller wakes.
If “ginormous” boats are going anything
over headway speed that close
to his shoreline, then he has other
causes to complain besides a speed
limit. If “ginormous” boats were going
that close to my shoreline, I certainly
wouldn’t want them to be going 85
MPH. Of course, laws other than "speed limits" are being broken and what if they were going 55 or 60 mph 300 feet from your shore?...

Several weekends in August the lake was
as crowded as I’ve ever seen it, but it
just FELT LIKE it was less crowded slower boats made what was a crowded lake be perceived as a less crowded lake to the writer, interesting.
because almost everyone was going
slower, as Ms. Stewart also saw. How
did the economy do that? More civility
during sunny days when the lake
is just as crowded has nothing to do
with the economy or bad weather. The
economy and rain might have affected
the boating numbers this year (at
times), but it could only have been the
speed limit that slowed them down, as
Mr. Stewart himself admits.

The typical Granite Stater new to
this whole discussion will ask how
anyone could rationalize opposition to
a reasonable limit of boating speeds Who declared that 45/25mph was a reasonable limit. Why not 55/35 or 65/35 or some other speeds?
on a lake so crowded with such big
boats. Oh there are so many big boats you claim why not a size limit instead of a speed limit? Are we being logical?
But of course, those who make
a lot of money over-crowding our
lake with over-fast boats and those
who boast about the “need for speed”
are not your typical Granite Staters.
They don’t think rationally. Their selfish
interests and “needs” cloud their
common sense. I don't make any money from boats, fast or slow. I have no need for speed. My boat can not reach 45 mph and there are MANY of us like that who oppose the 45/25 limit. And we are rational thinkers.
And they are not interested
in the activities that most Granite
Staters enjoy or that NH wants to
offer tourists to attract them to come
here. Says who? How does the writer know this? It's made up.

The brochures one picks up at our
rest stops show the natural beauty of
our state. Photos depict our beautiful
lakes and mountains as safe and
open to family recreational activities.
You see canoes and sailboats. You see
families water skiing and fishing. You
see loons and sunsets. Imagine how
many tourists we’d attract if those
brochures instead showed 6-ton boats
flying around at 80-90 mph amongst
the canoes and kayaks? This makes me laugh. Lets show boats going only 55 or 60 mph, OK? Better yet, how can we tell speed from STILL PICTURES?
That is not the NH I grew up in, Not much is the way it was when I was growing up. The world is growing up or that my summer
neighbors want to come to. For every
one tourist such an image attracts to
NH, it will send 100 somewhere else. I'd tell you what kind of images attract me and many other men, but this thread is not a bikini topic although those have been known get boat operators to slow down
See what that does to our economy,
Mr. Verdonk.
Forty-five MPH is a very reasonable
top speed for a boat on Lake Winnipesaukee.
It’s the typical speed limit
on lakes like Winnipesaukee around
the country and has proven effective
over and over. There is not a single
lake-appropriate boating activity that
one cannot enjoy at 45 MPH. And for
those with “the need” to go 90 MPH,
the ocean is just 50 miles down the
road. Anyone who argues that 45 is
too slow for this lake, It's not to slow for the lake. It's to slow to be a top limit.
whether blaming it on shore erosion, the economy,
the weather, or some other nonsensical
reason, is just not being honest. The writer assusmes that anyone who disagrees with 45/25 is DISHONEST, ouch!
As Mr. Chase’s letter said, the bottom
line is that NH’s citizens asked for the
law and seem to love its effects, while
the offenders are obviously unhappy
with it. How many laws can we say
that about? And doesn’t that prove it’s
working? No it does nott prove it is working. Many of us NONoffenders are unhappy about the 45/25 speed limit law. The writer is simply promulgating propaganda and making false assumptions.
Jack Weeks
Meredith"


PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by elchase

PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond.

Lost that bet.... not worth it anymore anyway.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Lost that bet.... not worth it anymore anyway.

Poor boy. That challenge must have been so painful for you to resist. You must have thought "how long do I need to wait to respond without looking like a nerd?". I notice you were "thankyouing" the other posters right off the bat. Are you ever not logged into these threads?
Now try to get outside for a bit today so Mom can pick up your room.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

The legal sleaziness that is prevalent in our country is destroying what made us America! This new political experiment by the liberal political majority is quickly being exposed for what it is! A power hungry group of politicians that have no clue on how to run anything. They are in trouble and I hope they have a true awakening that not only shocks them but the world. The next election will be telling!

The words of NoRegrets are depressing. I heard the same said about the eight years of the last administration. Katrina, fooled into wars, screwed up the economy, made our allies mad, trashed the constitution etc. Talking about power hungry politicians that have no clue how to run anything is not new. We know the grass is not greener where we came from - now what? The recent discussions about safety and speeds on this forum are proof that new ideas can come from the citizens. What other problems can be rationally discussed? Daming those in power seems so much less effective than proposing solutions that can become the next campaign issues.

[fatlazyless]

Should the U.S. president and family decide to vacation next August by renting out a Winnipesaukee waterfront house for two weeks, as did France Prez Sarkozy, do you think they are more likely to go kayaking or power-boating and why? ...............

[sa meredith]

This post is in no way intended to be sarcastic, or funny.
Just a thought...
It's weird how some issues bother certain people to the Nth degree, and others could care less.
And then, on different subjects, the same people flip flop. The indifferent poeple become the passionate, and the passionate become the indifferent.

As I sit here reading this thread, I wonder why I've never thrown my hat in the ring in this debate. It indeed has been good fun to read over the past 1.5 years or so, but I guess I never truly cared one way or the other.
Speed limit/ No speed limit...either way, fine by me. (of course our boat can't reach much more than 50/52, so that's probably it).

But let someone say something in the restaurant thread that I disagree with, and I'll be out front leading the charge. And loving the confrontation (in good fun, of course).

Just human nature I guess. One man's garbage is another man's treasure...and all that good stuff.
OK, I'm done.

[NoRegrets]

Thanks for the reply Lakegeezer. I am not trying to be depressing nor do I consider myself to be a pessimistic person. I responded to FLL’s off the cuff celebration dance. If my response sounded depressing it is because we as a country are in a very poor position at this current time in history. Unemployment and the devaluation of our assets on the world market really SUCK!

Issues need to get to a tipping point before action is planned and executed. I do believe we can address issues and fix problems. When you stated “…the grass wasn’t greener from where we came from – now what?” You are so right to point out that things were good in previous administrations. I now believe we have hit the tipping point and we are going to finally get back to fundamentals and start to address real issues.

We live in a society where politicians run the country and have effectively grown the government to a point where it is now taking so much away from the producers that many are taking note. We have allowed regulations to be ignored causing a world wide financial crisis. We have to shoulder the blame. Shame on us if we don’t insure it can’t happen again. I have been in contact with my rep and 2 senators as have many others with suggestions and they are indicating that they are working hard to “fix” problems. We will have to wait to see what they really do.

To get back to the SL issue - the politics seem to have been manipulated and the SL (IMO) was a sugar pill trying to cure a different “bonehead” problem.

Thanks for your reply. I take responsibility for what I write.

[Kracken]

The speed limit threads are some of the most popular threads on this site. The debate has been wildly entertaining, heated and passionate on both sides, but it should come with a warning: For entertainment purposes only.

Both the supporters and the opponents have given facts to support their sides. It would have been fantastic if the members of winnipesaukee.com could have reached a compromise and then sent it to Concord. After all, four thousand plus agreeing on the speed limit would certainly influence an elected official. Unfortunately we didn’t even come close.

I believe the people of New Hampshire should decide the fate of speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee. Unfortunately that is never going to happen. Most people think we live in a democracy, well we really don’t. We live in a republic and there is a very big difference. In a republic, well funded small groups can lobby their representatives and persuade them to passing or blocking legislation. They can generate propaganda and get public support by misrepresenting the facts. They can create fake groups and solicit donations to further their cause.

Does anybody think it odd that since House Bill 847 passed we have heard nothing from Winnfabs? Their website has not been updated since January 30, 2008. Winnfabs claims to be “a group of citizens who love Lake Winnipesaukee and who want to ensure safe family boating and preserve the beauty and serenity of the lake for present and future generations.” Does their silence mean they believe the lake is now safe? If they were not simply a special interest group created for the sole purpose of getting a speed limit passed wouldn’t they still be actively promoting safe boating practices? I have a strong feeling we will once again be hearing from the Winnfabs. They will be looking for donations to help champion their cause, to make the speed limit permanent.

I am against small groups of special interest people imposing their will upon everyone. I am against people who want to censor those with opposing views. If the majority of people in this state wanted the speed limit while I would still disagree with it, I could accept it. When a law is passed by making deals with legislators that becomes a concern for everyone.

Let’s look at the letter Mr. Chase wrote to the Sun. He states his opinion as he stated it many times here. I have no problem with that. What is reprehensible is his attempt to silence his opposition (he tried that here too). He actually urges the paper not print any opposing views without carefully checking out the background of the author. Well who is checking on you Mr. Chase? He also represents all who oppose the speed limits as outlaws, liars and cowboys. For those of you who support the speed limit, you can’t possibly want to be identified with this.

The most discouraging aspect of the speed limit debate is the silence from the majority. I understand that the law doesn’t affect most people and it is easy to stay out of the way. I not only understand, I was one of you until 3 months ago.

The Lake has changed, and not for the better. Not to long ago on our lake every boater waved and smiled to every other boater. There was a bond among boaters, a bond that transcended what type of boat it was, a belief that more things drew us together than pulled us apart. That is the Lake Winnipesaukee I want to return to.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Kracken

What is reprehensible is his attempt to silence his opposition (he tried that here too). He actually urges the paper not print any opposing views without carefully checking out the background of the author. Well who is checking on you Mr. Chase? He also represents all who oppose the speed limits as outlaws, liars and cowboys. For those of you who support the speed limit, you can’t possibly want to be identified with this.
.

Excellent post.This paragraph sounds very similar to recent political events,does it not?A broad stroke of the brush to anyone that disagrees with them.

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by Kracken

.....The most discouraging aspect of the speed limit debate is the silence from the majority. I understand that the law doesn’t affect most people and it is easy to stay out of the way. I not only understand, I was one of you until 3 months ago.

The Lake has changed, and not for the better. Not to long ago on our lake every boater waved and smiled to every other boater. There was a bond among boaters, a bond that transcended what type of boat it was, a belief that more things drew us together than pulled us apart. That is the Lake Winnipesaukee I want to return to.

Thank you sir, well said. To add an opinion to this portion of your post I believe the silent majority is not focused on this recreational issue. They are working on making a living and the SL impacts a only a small population of a privileged few that value this sport. It doesn't make it right but it is somewhat unrealistic to expect non-boaters from winni stop what they are doing to rally to this cause. I do hope the political climate is changing or about to change and the small special interest groups get exposed in an unbiased media. (One can dream!).

The other point I copied about the acknowledgement of others with a wave. In the seventies all bikes waved at passing bikers. Today only the old veterans do. I think the fast pace has had a negative impact on the human aspects of communication.

[DoTheMath]

Throughout my adult life I have had all kinds of boats, big, small, fast, slow, etc... I literally grew up "summering" on this lake and have watched it change quite a bit over my 40 yrs, some for the better - and some, admittedly not. (I miss Anderson's Bakery in Ctr. Harbor, they had the best donuts! And as a kid, walking to Robbins General Store for candy or an ice cream out of the cooler). Anyway, I digress... I honestly think the "most fun" boat I / we had growing up was a 13' Whaler with a 40hp 2S Merc on it. We bought it new from Browns, it came with "manual" trim and I installed a power trim kit on it, it ran 42-44mph on it's best day in perfect conditions. At WOT that boat felt like it was going 80mph - you were 12" off the water and it was a blast! I scared a lot of friends that weren't "boat people" in that thing - great boat! Jumping up to a 42' Outerlimits with 1,700hp, at 100mph - it feels like you are sitting in a lazyboy with a big fan blowing wind in your face. It's all relative to the size and conditions at the time you are out. At 65mph, that same boat feels like it's "loafing" along, the engines are running smooth and easy and you barely feel the waves you are crossing, it is a very comfortable and controlled ride. OCD has mentioned this numerous times in previous posts, the boats are DESIGNED to perform VERY well and very controlled at the speeds that they achieve. Imagine doing 65mph in a 13' Whaler - as much as I would love to try it, given an open body of water with no boat traffic and flat and calm conditions, I would never dream of doing it on Winni, ever!

It's funny how most SL proponents seem to forget something very important - and I have said this over and over - guns don't kill people, people kill people! We always read about "Captain Bonehead" on here - note, no one ever refers to the boat itself, it is always the operator! "This guy on a jet ski cut in front of me yesterday, what a jerk" or "I had this guy in a bowrider, with 9 people on board nail it coming out of the channel, he was only 25' from me". Now, in any case of negligence or "operator" error - has it been the boats fault that what happened - happened!? Did "the boat" decide to go against the operator and turn itself in front of you, cutting you off and breaking the 150' rule!? Did "the boat" decide to slow to a speed that let up a huge wake and crashed your boat against your dock - damaging both - while the operator yelled at it telling it not to!? To quote Forrest Gump "stupid is as stupid does" - and if you look at the last (and ONLY) two significant accidents to occur on the lake in the last 10+ years, both were operator error, period! (And at least one so far was proven to have taken place UNDER 30mph!) Call it what you will, bad judgment, driver impaired, weather conditions, etc... it was plain and simple the operator that was responsible, and always is. I know plenty of people on this lake that own boats that will run fast - very fast, and not a SINGLE one of them has been involved in an incident of any kind that would be construed as negative. I have seen over the period that the SL has become an issue, an exponential number of "family boats", cruisers and Waverunners involved in the most unbelievably dumb, careless and unsafe incidents! The SL has had nothing to do with any perceived changes in the way the lake was this summer, chalk it up to the economy and sheer coincidence. BTW - I still saw more than my fair share of "captain boneheads" on the lake this summer, I was up less than all prior summers, and NONE were driving a performance boat! None involved going really fast either, it was mostly the 150' rule and the right of way rule that were the culprit. Tubing / skiing in the most foolish locations - traffic-laden, etc... - and just not paying attention in general.

Face it people - speed is not the enemy here, and it never has been but some people like to think that the performance boat crowd is. That our "Golden Pond" has become a playground for all they despise - gone are the birch-bark canoes - replaced with loud and "unsafe" speed boats. How about gone are the responsible owner / operators ACTING responsibly! You are responsible for your own actions, man-up and act like you are! There is plenty of water for all to enjoy, but we need to be responsible for our actions - on and off the water! I can assure you, I can promise you and prove to you that a 20' bowrider at 50mph can be far more dangerous than a 38' performance boat at the same speed.

Sure, there are times that I wish this lake was the lake I knew when I was a kid, less populated and developed, but at the same time - I love the lake today! My 4 1/2 year old son also loves the lake, being out on the boat, visiting friends and playing in the water. You know, "he-said - she-said, he-did - she-did" is getting old and moving us no where fast! Let's figure it out and make it work people, so generations to come can enjoy it all too...

Mark

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Kracken

The speed limit threads are some of the most popular threads on this site. The debate has been wildly entertaining, heated and passionate on both sides, but it should come with a warning: For entertainment purposes only.

Both the supporters and the opponents have given facts to support their sides. It would have been fantastic if the members of winnipesaukee.com could have reached a compromise and then sent it to Concord. After all, four thousand plus agreeing on the speed limit would certainly influence an elected official. Unfortunately we didn’t even come close.

I believe the people of New Hampshire should decide the fate of speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee. Unfortunately that is never going to happen. Most people think we live in a democracy, well we really don’t. We live in a republic and there is a very big difference. In a republic, well funded small groups can lobby their representatives and persuade them to passing or blocking legislation. They can generate propaganda and get public support by misrepresenting the facts. They can create fake groups and solicit donations to further their cause.

Does anybody think it odd that since House Bill 847 passed we have heard nothing from Winnfabs? Their website has not been updated since January 30, 2008. Winnfabs claims to be “a group of citizens who love Lake Winnipesaukee and who want to ensure safe family boating and preserve the beauty and serenity of the lake for present and future generations.” Does their silence mean they believe the lake is now safe? If they were not simply a special interest group created for the sole purpose of getting a speed limit passed wouldn’t they still be actively promoting safe boating practices? I have a strong feeling we will once again be hearing from the Winnfabs. They will be looking for donations to help champion their cause, to make the speed limit permanent.

I am against small groups of special interest people imposing their will upon everyone. I am against people who want to censor those with opposing views. If the majority of people in this state wanted the speed limit while I would still disagree with it, I could accept it. When a law is passed by making deals with legislators that becomes a concern for everyone.

Let’s look at the letter Mr. Chase wrote to the Sun. He states his opinion as he stated it many times here. I have no problem with that. What is reprehensible is his attempt to silence his opposition (he tried that here too). He actually urges the paper not print any opposing views without carefully checking out the background of the author. Well who is checking on you Mr. Chase? He also represents all who oppose the speed limits as outlaws, liars and cowboys. For those of you who support the speed limit, you can’t possibly want to be identified with this.

The most discouraging aspect of the speed limit debate is the silence from the majority. I understand that the law doesn’t affect most people and it is easy to stay out of the way. I not only understand, I was one of you until 3 months ago.

The Lake has changed, and not for the better. Not to long ago on our lake every boater waved and smiled to every other boater. There was a bond among boaters, a bond that transcended what type of boat it was, a belief that more things drew us together than pulled us apart. That is the Lake Winnipesaukee I want to return to.

Could you please submit this to the Laconia Sun? This is excellent! You eloquently stated what many feel here and what many many friends of mine feel.

I'm serious when I say this but I NEVER come across anyone in the Lakes Region that supports the Speed Limit. I swear to god I am not lying. I am in the lakes region all summer long, on my boat, in restaurants, arcades, gas docks, stores, friends houses. Literally hundreds of places and hundreds of people. Some are friends some are acquaintances, some are total strangers. I never ever ever come across any supporters? Why is this? Try it for yourself. Randomly figure out ways to work it into conversations with people around the lake. Waiters, waitresses, gas dock attendants, neighbors. The key here is to not give away your position. Just say something like. "Is there a Speed Limit on the lake?" Then see their reaction. Most roll their eyes. Then engage in conversation and you'll quickly find out NOBODY supports it. I'm not lying, I did this a lot this summer and I continue to do it. It's sort of my unofficial poll. I never reveal my feelings on the matter I just hmph, shrug my shoulders and wink at my wife. She has been keeping track of what I do and when I do it. She concurs although she doesn't care one way or the other. She won't even drive the boat.

Note: I never tried this on Bear Island

[VitaBene]

Here is another SL letter. Only the name is redacted. Sorry for the formatting of these letters- I use a full version of Acrobat that allows copying but it can't be manipulated.

Boat speed limit supporters have no data to back up their claims
To the editor,
As I was sitting at the Meredith
town docks reading Mr. Weeks’ eloquent
letter to editor concerning his
dramatic support for the speed limit
law on Lake Winnipesaukee, a few
things came to mind.
Mr. Weeks attributes the reduced
boating activity on our big lake to the
success of the new limits in effect. However,
reports in all local papers, not to
mention statements from the Marine
Patrol and marina owners, all stated
that boat traffic was way down from
normal this summer, not only on Lake
Winnipesaukee, which is the only lake
affected by the speed limits but the
entire Lakes Region — not very surprising
given the dramatic recession
we’ve had since last year, and the poor
weather in the Lakes Region during
June and July and parts of August.
The economy has battered people’s
retirement accounts, home values,
and the unemployment rate has risen
to a two-decade high. Not exactly the
environment one would expect a lake
area to thrive in and certainly not
due to the new speed limit law, a law
the NH Marine Patrol testified was
unnecessary to begin with.
What really surprised me the most
was Mr. Weeks statement that, “WE
FINALLY HAD A SUMMER WITHOUT
A HIGH-SPEED TRAGEDY”.
This made me wonder, when was
the last time a high speed tragedy
occurred on Lake Winnipesaukee?
New Hampshire Marine Patrol accident
statistics for Lake Winnipesaukee
do not list a “high speed tragedy”
in recent memory so how is it that we
“Finally had a summer without one”?
Accident statistics do not show any
boat accident and certainly no fatal
accidents where speed was attributed
as the cause on Lake Winnipesaukee
over the past decade or more.
As to his praise for the Marine
Patrol, it very well is deserved since
their budgets are not thriving in this
economy. But I feel the praise was
misplaced.
The Marine Patrol director is on the
record at least twice, in not supporting
the speed limit provision of the
current law. His reasoning? “Speeding
is not a problem on the lake”. The
tests that occurred on Winnipesaukee
last year, tests that WINNFABS supported,
pretty much backed up the
director’s claims.
The law has a sunset provision, a
given period of two years.
The supporters NOW want to make
the law permanent, without any data to
review. I know for a fact that their reasoning
is that they know full well that
the lake traffic this year was pretty low
(note the contradiction to Mr. Weeks
claim), not to mention that the data
would clearly indicate that the speed
limit portion of the law had no data supporting
it’s passing to being with and
nothing supporting it now.
Regardless of the outcome, I think
that the law should stand on its own
merits and that the original sunset
provision should remain as written! I
further state that the data should be
made public as soon as it is available.
The Marine Patrol would obviously be
a great, first hand resource for media
to follow-up on this contentious issue.
Regardless of anyone’s opinion of this
law, I do believe that the public has a
right to know the facts, all of the facts.
Unfortunately, there were far too
many people like Mr. Weeks and WinnFabs
that dominated the process,
and the public has not been served
well by their actions or words.
Whenever anyone, or any group,
tries to conceal the truth to support
an idea, a giant RED FLAG should
go up. Behind their statements, probably
well behind those statements if
history is any indicator, the truth does
exist. Lake Winnipesaukee is a state
treasure, not something that belongs
to people with political or ideological
agendas. It is a SHARED resource.
Before anyone buys into Mr. Weeks
drama concerning the chaos that has
magically disappeared, perhaps the
public, you, should directly ask him
and the WinnFabs to support any of
their previous claims that chaos of
speeding boats ever existed in the first
place!
Drama belongs in the theater, not in
the law-making process.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

"...I don't know if the landslide victory by Lynch set a record or not, but the support for Kenney by WinnFabs and their kind evaporated when he needed it...Sounds like WinnFabs and the like are fair weather friends that can't be counted on to me...!"

According to a telephone conversation I had with a Senator Kenney staffer, the Senator wasn't even lukewarm on the issue originally: perhaps the issue could have helped him, but any support he gave was too late.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

"...They have boats and PWC that can easily exceed 50 mph..."

Depending on conditions, I'd say that the MP06 boat (a "fast" MP boat) cannot exceed 55-MPH.

You and Dave R missed my point: If 55-MPH (max) is consistent with Public Safety, what is 90-MPH, but a blatant disregard for Public Safety?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

what is 90-MPH, but a blatant disregard for Public Safety?

If the boat can handle it and the conditions warrent why would this be an issue at all?

[OCDACTIVE]

That same letter rebutting Mr. Week's letter appeared in the Concord Monitor today under:

Summer wasn't a true test of speed limits.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I try to look at the LDS daily but if I miss any (either side of the discussion) let me know and I will look back at the archive and post them.

I guess we all should be looking at the Monitor and other papers as well.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

That same letter rebutting Mr. Week's letter appeared in the Concord Monitor today under:

Summer wasn't a true test of speed limits.

Here is the link http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...909240319/1017

And the letter:
As I was sitting at the Meredith town docks reading Jack Weeks's column concerning his support for the speed limit law on Lake Winnipesaukee ("All quiet on the big lake," Sunday Monitor Viewpoints, Sept. 20), a few things came to mind.

Weeks attributes the reduced boating activity to the success of the new speed limits. However, recent reports in all the local newspapers, not to mention statements from the Marine Patrol and marina owners, all said that boat traffic was way down this summer, not only on Lake Winnipesaukee, the only lake affected by the speed limits, but across the entire Lakes Region. Not surprising, given the economic recession and the poor weather in June, July and parts of August.

The economy has battered people's retirement accounts and home values, and the unemployment rate has risen to a two-decade high. Not exactly the environment one would expect a lake area to thrive in.

What surprised me the most was Weeks's statement that "We finally had a summer without a high-speed tragedy." This made me wonder, when was the last time a high-speed tragedy occurred on Lake Winnipesaukee? New Hampshire Marine Patrol accident statistics do not list a "high-speed tragedy" in recent memory.

As to his praise for the Marine Patrol, it well is deserved, since their budgets are not thriving in this economy. But I feel the praise was misplaced.

The Marine Patrol director is on the record at least twice in not supporting the speed limits. His reasoning? Speeding is not a problem on the lake. The tests on Winnipesaukee last year pretty much backed up the director's claims.

The law has a sunset provision, a given period of two years.

The supporters now want to make the law permanent, without any data to review. They know full well that the lake traffic this year was pretty low, not to mention that the data would clearly not support the speed limit.

Lake Winnipesaukee is a state treasure, not something that belongs to people with political or ideological agendas. It is a shared resource.

Before anyone buys into Weeks's drama concerning the chaos that has magically disappeared, perhaps you should ask him and the WinnFabs to support any of their previous claims that chaos of speeding boats ever existed in the first place! Drama belongs in the theater, not in the law-making process.

[OCDACTIVE]

To be fair there is also another small letter in the Laconia Daily Sun today from a supporter. Opinion is fine. He doesn't say anything inflameatory. The only issue again is he says they FEEL safer with the limits. Again laws are not supposed to make you feel safer they are supposed to make you safer... I can't stand redundant laws that accomplish nothing.....

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

To be fair there is also another small letter in the Laconia Daily Sun today from a supporter. Opinion is fine. He doesn't say anything inflameatory. The only issue again is he says they FEEL safer with the limits. Again laws are not supposed to make you feel safer they are supposed to make you safer... I can't stand redundant laws that accomplish nothing.....

I'm curious who keeps the count of canoes and kayaks on the lake? According to the author (who is probably a member of WinnFABS - IMO) there were "many" more non powered boats on the lake.

Seems to me it's just another ficticious statistic - similar to all of the high speed accidents from previous years.

[onlywinni]

Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm curious who keeps the count of canoes and kayaks on the lake? According to the author (who is probably a member of WinnFABS - IMO) there were "many" more non powered boats on the lake.

Seems to me it's just another ficticious statistic - similar to all of the high speed accidents from previous years.

Scare tactics, misinformation and right out lies-appear to be the tools utilized by the Extreme Speed Limit Supporters.

I have two questions:

-If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it still make a sound?

-If I blast across the broads at 65mph and no one is close enough to hear or see me are people still Traumitzed??????

[Woodsy]

Deleted....

Reason: Poor attempt at sarcastic humor! Sorry guys!

Woodsy

[codeman671]

Woodsy, I am not sure where you were trying to end up with your post. Onlywinni was criticizing supporters of the limit. Maybe you misinterpreted the post, or am I?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Woodsy, I am not sure where you were trying to end up with your post. Onlywinni was criticizing supporters of the limit. Maybe you misinterpreted the post, or am I?

I was kinda confused as well... Figured it would come out sooner or later.. I believe Woodsy is also a speed limit opposer.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I was kinda confused as well... Figured it would come out sooner or later.. I believe Woodsy is also a speed limit opposer.

He is, which is why I could not understand where he was going with it.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by codeman671

He is, which is why I could not understand where he was going with it.

If you read it carefully, he was trying to be sarcastic.

However, like all the speed limit threads for the past year, it doesn't really matter what he was trying to convey because nobodies mind is being changed anyway.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

One of the problems I’ve had with all the speed limit rhetoric this year has been the frequent references to “the testing done last year” or “the lake has been paradise these last 2 years”. Apparently, these people don’t realize that the “testing” they keep referring to as taking place in 2008 was actually supposed to be done in 2007! I say “supposed” because they never marked the test zones AND never enforced a temporary speed limit in 2007!! Instead, all the MP did was collect data (on many areas of the lake, not just those intended “test speed limit zones”), recording how many boats were observed and at what rate of speed those boats were traveling. Anyone who was aware of this didn’t have to worry about being ticketed for “speeding” because they knew MP WAS NOT TICKETING! Therefore, there shouldn’t have been any false sense of security supposedly caused by boaters obeying a speed limit; there was no speed limit in 2007 to obey other than the usual posted NWZ’s and speed limits created/set by the 150’ rule. There was also NO speed limit OR testing in 2008!!! The ONLY thing speed-limit-related that happened last year was HB-847 was introduced, passed and signed into law effective 1/1/2009!!!

The “paradise” or “calmness” on the lake last year probably had more to do with the lousy weather, economy tanking and the high price of boat fuel!!!!

Just my 2 cents…………

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

If you read it carefully, he was trying to be sarcastic.

However, like all the speed limit threads for the past year, it doesn't really matter what he was trying to convey because nobodies mind is being changed anyway.

Yes he was. I do happen to know Woodsy personally and I am confident he was being sarcastic.

He and Onlywinni surely see eye to eye on this issue. I believe Woodsy was merely pointing out that nobody could possibly be Traumatized by any boat traveling at any speed ever. The definition of the word clearly spells that out. That doesn't stop the SL supporters from using terms like that to support their cause.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

OnlyWinni...

I think your a bit off here.... perhaps you need to look up the definition?? I will do it for you...

Main Entry: trau·ma·tize
Pronunciation: \-ˌtīz\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): trau·ma·tized; trau·ma·tiz·ing
Date: 1903
: to inflict a trauma upon


Main Entry: trau·ma
Pronunciation: \ˈtrau̇-mə, ˈtrȯ-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural traumas also trau·ma·ta \-mə-tə\
Etymology: Greek traumat-, trauma wound, alteration of trōma; akin to Greek titrōskein to wound, tetrainein to pierce — more at throw
Date: circa 1693
1 a : an injury (as a wound) to living tissue caused by an extrinsic agent b : a disordered psychic or behavioral state resulting from severe mental or emotional stress or physical injury c : an emotional upset
2 : an agent, force, or mechanism that causes trauma


Of course a tree falling in the forest makes noise so what? What is your point? Nobody was there to witness/hear the tree fall. Nobody will be TRAUMATIZED by this event.... I suppose you walk in the forest just waiting for a tree to fall on you?

On the same note, blasting across the Broads at 65MPH TRAUMATIZES nobody! How can a boat minding its own business inflict any kind of trauma (with exception to the driver/passengers) regardless of what speed it travels? Especially if there isnt anyone around to witness the event!

If I were to apply your logic, you are probably too TRAUMATIZED to operate any sort of motor vehicle on the public roads even though there are speed limits and traffic rules (just as there are on the lake). I mean if 65 is too fast for a boat how do you ever drive on a highway?? Where (GASP) people routinely drive faster than the posted speeds and accidents occur?

Woodsy

This was an obviously poor attempt at sarcastic humor and was certainly not intended to insult OnlyWinni... I would feel awful if I traumatized him. It was an attempt to be sarcastic towards the logic often used by the speed limit supporters.....

Sorry if I offended in any way!

Woodsy

[VtSteve]

I'm not sure it's possible to traumatize him with posts Woodsy.

I was traumatized this morning when I say three to five footers driven from the North here. I thought I was traumatized, but now I'm not so sure

They were going really fast for waves.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

If the boat can handle it and the conditions warrent why would this be an issue at all?

The Marine Patrol's Public Safety officers meet emergency requirements with much less than 55-MPH—perhaps with an MP fleet-average of only 45-MPH. (!)

With emergencies met by Public Safety officers at an average speed of 45-MPH, what is 90-MPH—but a reckless disregard for the naïve boater who occasions Lake Winnipesaukee?
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[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Among the NH Marine Patrol boats best equipped for emergencies, can any exceed 50-MPH?

In an emergency, at what speed would NHMP need to go and not pose an additional peril to public safety?

They have boats and PWC that can easily exceed 50 mph.....

In the worst emergencies they actually do not call a boat... they get the coast guard helo's out of portsmouth.. those exceed 50 mph no problem.