One way or the other

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Just go out to the end of your dock in August and listen if you don't think the lake isn't quieter(even with gas $2.00/gal cheaper). And thank God you can go out fishing at the buoys without some GFBL screaming past you at 70 MPH just 150' from your anchored boat...that's not "perceived side effects"? And as far as 1 ticket, that's even more evidence that speed limits are working. No statistics? That from someone(a teacher) who has repeatedly shown no working knowledge of even the most rudimentary fundamentals of polling and it's statistical implications. People who use Winnipesaukee will not give up this quantum leap in the lake's quality of life.

Am I mistaken or does Turtle Boy consistently drag my personal life, my job into the debate.

Because my grasp on the polling data or the statistics differs from your opinion does not make you the least bit correct. Nor does my profession have any validity in this discussion. What is it that you do for a living and how does it affect this debate?

I'm trying Don... Really I am....

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I'm trying Don... Really I am....

Sounds like Hazelnut got taken out to the woodshed (and I don't mean the restaurant in Moultonboro).

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Sounds like Hazelnut got taken out to the woodshed (and I don't mean the restaurant in Moultonboro).

Actually NO! Again TB you are wrong. I reached out to Don as a good faith effort last week. He and I had a very nice chat about some of the tactics used by BOTH sides on this board. I told him that I would do my best to keep the conversation positive and avoid the traps and misdirections by certain members of this forum. We agreed that both sides needed to stick to the facts and avoid personal attacks. Again after very very long detailed messages and conversation with Don I sympathized with the monumental task Don has wading through all the B.S.

My quote that you misrepresented was directed to show Don that certain members (you) are using snippy personal attacks. So as I mentioned in a post earlier that I would work to keep on topic. Your comments are making it VERY hard to do TB.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Sounds like Hazelnut got taken out to the woodshed (and I don't mean the restaurant in Moultonboro).

Don't drag the woodshed into your post, even if it is supposed to be sarcastic. not kidding.

[OCDACTIVE]

Alot of votes have been cast.... Hard to argue with that.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Alot of votes have been cast.... Hard to argue with that.

Oh OCD silly man. Those votes were all cast by people who we recruited from other sites such as OSO. No to mention that they were cast by scofflaws. Each vote was cast by a GFBL boat owner with an agenda. Haven't you heard. Keep this in mind too, www.winnipesaukee.com is a GFBL site that only has readers and posters who own 100MPH GFBL boats. So the poll is null and void.

I think that about covers the replies that should be coming in 5..4..3..2..

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Oh OCD silly man. Those votes were all cast by people who we recruited from other sites such as OSO. No to mention that they were cast by scofflaws. Each vote was cast by a GFBL boat owner with an agenda. Haven't you heard. Keep this in mind too, www.winnipesaukee.com is a GFBL site that only has readers and posters who own 100MPH GFBL boats. So the poll is null and void.

I think that about covers the replies that should be coming in 5..4..3..2..

Sounds like the teacher needs to go to this site so as to understand some of the basic principles of polling:
http://www.notrain-nogain.org/Train/Exer/Num/poll.asp
The forum's results differ significantly from a state poll and from,
say, certain road associations previously mentioned who unanimously voted to send money to Winnfabs.

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

the basic principles of polling:
http://www.notrain-nogain.org/Train/Exer/Num/poll.asp

The best lines here are "Self-selecting polls only report the results of people who cared one way or another to either call a particular number, reply by email or are willing to be interviewed in person in a public place (think of mall surveys). The results cannot be generalized beyond those who choose to answer." and "The results of random samples can be applied to a larger group because every person in the study group had an equal opportunity to be selected."

How appropriate to the present case were we have a small group conducting their own self-selecting polls and trying to generalize the results across the entire population, while at the same time trying to discredit a large scale broad based random poll properly conducted by a well known, legitimate, and unbiased polling expert, because those results do not suit their goals. Imagine them telling a legislator, "We polled ourselves and 60% of the GFBL crowd agrees that the SL should sunset, while the other 40% of us think the limits should just be raised."

[OCDACTIVE]

so I heard from a friend that they only have 6 radar guns that have been issued to the MP due to budget cut backs. But only 4 officers are currently trained to use them. Anyone know if that is true?

[Kracken]

I was at Channel Marine last weekend, very sad as there were a lot of people taking their boats out for the season. The disturbing part was many of them got for sale signs. I have never seen anything like it. Apparently many boaters are calling it quits. The economy seems to be taking its toll, although I am sure that will be debated as well.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Kracken

I was at Channel Marine last weekend, very sad as there were a lot of people taking their boats out for the season. The disturbing part was many of them got for sale signs. I have never seen anything like it. Apparently many boaters are calling it quits. The economy seems to be taking its toll, although I am sure that will be debated as well.

You should have Polled them..

I am hooking the boat up tomorrow for the 9 hour journey south.. On the way back hitting atlantic city.. want to go?

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

You should have Polled them..

I am hooking the boat up tomorrow for the 9 hour journey south.. On the way back hitting atlantic city.. want to go?

So how far south are you going? Nine hours from the lake puts you in Dover, Delaware at best....or worst in southern NJ. NB

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

So how far south are you going? Nine hours from the lake puts you in Dover, Delaware at best....or worst in southern NJ. NB

9 hours will put me in Richmond VA.. I hope.. :-)

Going a bit out of Richmond in a place called Charles City.. Maybe get a ride on a 37 AThunder with twin 525's..

[Lakepilot]

In 9 hours you won't be anywhere near Richmond. With luck, you'll be past Baltimore.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

In 9 hours you won't be anywhere near Richmond. With luck, you'll be past Baltimore.

Maybe we should place some bets...... Or better yet start a poll!! LOL

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

9 hours will put me in Richmond VA.. I hope.. :-)

Going a bit out of Richmond in a place called Charles City.. Maybe get a ride on a 37 AThunder with twin 525's..

Google maps says that is will take you 10hrs 15mins if you go I-95 S and 11hrs 25 mins if you go I-90 W
Therefore I think it will take you 10 hrs if you go I-95 S.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Google maps says that is will take you 10hrs 15mins if you go I-95 S and 11hrs 25 mins if you go I-90 W
Therefore I think it will take you 10 hrs if you go I-95 S.

You are going on the assumption I am leaving from Moultonboro and that I drive the speed Limit

[jmen24]

Well, I put in Concord as you did not state where you were leaving from, but that does make a difference. You have to be honest with us OCD, otherwise this could get heated.

I also put in a faster than the speed limit assumption, but knowing how you feel about your boat I figured you would not be flying around on the side roads. I have a picture of you in my head crossing over the VA line with 30 min to go to deadline, boat fish tailing around corners to make in under the gun. Remember most trailer tires are not rated for speeds above 65, if you want to go faster you need to increase your tire pressure to help prevent a failure, that would really slow you down, but I will not hold something like that against your time, we will deduct for things like that.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Well, I put in Concord as you did not state where you were leaving from, but that does make a difference. You have to be honest with us OCD, otherwise this could get heated.

I also put in a faster than the speed limit assumption, but knowing how you feel about your boat I figured you would not be flying around on the side roads. I have a picture of you in my head crossing over the VA line with 30 min to go to deadline, boat fish tailing around corners to make in under the gun. Remember most trailer tires are not rated for speeds above 65, if you want to go faster you need to increase your tire pressure to help prevent a failure, that would really slow you down, but I will not hold something like that against your time, we will deduct for things like that.

It won't get heated unless you start a poll that doesn't go my way. Then I am going to call schnanagans..

You are right.... I won't be flying especially since I am towing... However the way home could be interesting.

Already pumped up the tires to the max... I am leaving around 3AM.. hoping to arrive by mid afternoon. I have a GPS but I am doing a AAA Trip Tix to make sure I don't end up in downtown Manhattan. Going around the city to avoid traffic. Gotta hand it to AAA. These trip tix reports are great..

Hitting Atlantic City on the way back to catch the Pats game. They should love me there in my Brady Jersey...

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Already pumped up the tires to the max... I am leaving around 3AM.. hoping to arrive by mid afternoon. I have a GPS but I am doing a AAA Trip Tix to make sure I don't end up in downtown Manhattan. Going around the city to avoid traffic. Gotta hand it to AAA. These trip tix reports are great..

I use to do AAA trip tixs. It's a bitch to program the GPS with that info. Bing maps with clearflow is the next best thing. And you can download the directions into your GPS! Give it a try!

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

You are going on the assumption I am leaving from Moultonboro and that I drive the speed Limit

Even though I am betting against you, I would strongly suggest that you avoid going I-95 the whole way. It is a miserable road through CT without traffic, but you will be hitting the NYC area in the morning rush. I-84 is your friend.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Even though I am betting against you, I would strongly suggest that you avoid going I-95 the whole way. It is a miserable road through CT without traffic, but you will be hitting the NYC area in the morning rush. I-84 is your friend.

Truer words were never spoken.

I could beat you down there from here using that route OCD, been there, done that. I95 makes life miserable.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

You are going on the assumption I am leaving from Moultonboro and that I drive the speed Limit

Don't be a scofflaw!

[Kracken]

gtagrip,

I say OCD pulls it off.

I THINK he was joking about the speed limit, he is pulling a LARGE boat.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Kracken

gtagrip,

I say OCD pulls it off.

I THINK he was joking about the speed limit, he is pulling a LARGE boat.

As I about him being a scofflaw. I just didn't want him to let others know about his any mis-doings! We all know how they feel about that.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

so I heard from a friend that they only have 6 radar guns that have been issued to the MP due to budget cut backs. But only 4 officers are currently trained to use them. Anyone know if that is true?

In one of the SL hearings, one of the Winfabs 'fat cat' offered to donate money for radar guns. There is no evidence of that.

I do know that the marine patrol budget was cut and that buying laser guns and training of officers have limited the hirings. I will try to find the article in the Concord Monitor.

[BroadHopper]

I recently started using this for directions and find it pretty slick! Try it!

It calculated from Moultonboro, NH to Charles City, VA as a 693.3 mile trip in 10 hrs and 47 mins. That's my bet!

[Kracken]

Our Founding Fathers were brilliant in the design of this nation. They had the insight to set this country up as a nation of states. Each state would be independent and able to decide their own policies and laws based on its individual needs.

That same model SHOULD be used here. I would suggest that if you have people with little to no stake in the outcome they will vote either selfishly or out of ignorance. If the same people that were polled for their speed limit input were asked other questions like:

Should headlights be required at night? (Brilliant example Hazelnut)
Should boat registrations be tripled to help gap the budget deficit?
Should lakeshore property taxes be tripled?
Should all boats that produce greenhouse gasses be banned on inland waterways?

People with no stake in the lakes region would probably vote yes to all these questions. If you wanted to do a poll that gave an accurate barometer of the issues you would only ask the people who had a stake in the outcome. In this case the correct sample would be residents of the towns that boarder the lake and all registered boaters.

Somebody once said “Only tax payers should be able to vote”. While that comment seems outrageous at first glance, think about where we might be as a country if that was the reality.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Sounds like the teacher needs to go to this site so as to understand some of the basic principles of polling:
http://www.notrain-nogain.org/Train/Exer/Num/poll.asp
The forum's results differ significantly from a state poll and from,
say, certain road associations previously mentioned who unanimously voted to send money to Winnfabs.

Yet again calling my profession into the argument. Will you please stop? How many times do I have to ask? Could you just stop? Seriously?

Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you and elchase. This has been said over and over again on this forum. While I understand that you see no validity in any poll taken on this site I see even less validity on a statewide poll. The poll was taken statewide as you have said. Why the heck would we or anyone care what a resident of lets say Salem New Hampshire thinks about a speed limit on a lake they have never been to? Explain to me why those people should have ANY say on what recreation takes place on this lake?

Do you have any faith that if I created a poll restricting the uses of sailboats on the lake that the results would come back in your favor? Especially if the question was posed to non boaters who have never visited this lake? Do you understand that concept? Is it really that hard to understand? I am reasonably confident that I could create a question that could be posed to the general New Hampshire public that would result in showing that New Hampshire residents favor some sort of restrictions on sailboats.

Here is another example that may help you and elchase: Most non boaters that visit my camp are ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY that I drive my boat at night without headlights! So tell me how hard would it be for me to create a poll that asks "Should all boats should be required to use headlights on the lake at night," and get results that favor headlight use on the lake?

Does that example make it more clear for you? I'm in teacher mode now.

So while you put stock in your statewide poll, I'll put stock in the poll answered by boaters who boat on the actual lake in question. While both polls have their flaws I'd rather see a Lake Winnipesaukee ONLY poll done by the Citizen or another paper. The first question should be do you or have you used Lake Winnipesaukee for recreational purposes. If the answer is no then it is an immediate disconnect.

Your constant mention of my profession in your comments is tiresome as I mentioned already. But I will consider this a teachable moment for you. Your understanding and interpretation of polls and polling is limited at best. Your faith in the statewide poll is confirmation of this fact.

Furthermore the polls on this site are of course not "official" in any sense of the word. I do understand that this is just an informal survey. My point is that I put just as much stock into this poll as you do in the statewide poll. At least I know that the replies on this site come from boaters. That is FAR more than I can say about the statewide poll.

[NoRegrets]

The polls are up to the honesty and integrety of everyone on the forum. I have faith in all. Those that choose to cheat the system are the handicaped low-life loosers. Anyone that takes devious actions to gain any point not only hurt all but will eventually eat away at their spiritual peace. There is no value in tryng to taint the results and cast suspiscion on the process. Let the polititions continue to lie and cheat us but let the boaters enjoy the sport as free as possible! Get back to the real statistics that are creating the problem and make sure the media starts to report solid facts that point out the b'head problems.

[Airwaves]

how hard would it be for me to create a poll that asks "Should all boats should be required to use headlights on the lake at night," and get results that favor headlight use on the lake?

I REALLY like that idea. I wish we had a statewide platform to do it just to prove the point!

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Yet again calling my profession into the argument. Will you please stop? How many times do I have to ask? Could you just stop? Seriously?
Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you and elchase.

Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you. Your profession tweaked the Turtle family's interest last year when you opined at length about the validity of forum polls. We were intrigued that someone(a teacher, no less) who spelled poll incorrectly (no, it's not spelled pole) felt so entitled to rant about whether a self poll on a boating forum might indeed have any significant validity. Since that time, the only progress you have made in this arena has been that you learned how to spell the word correctly.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Your constant mention of my profession in your comments is tiresome as I mentioned already.

Less entertaining than the poll/pole spelling difficulties is the following. We have all heard mention on this forum that perhaps there is a correlation between those who are dominating, intimidating, and rude on the forum and those who might act similarly on the lake. This kind of behavior from you directed at anyone who disagrees with your beliefs, whether it be me, EL, Evenstar (really nasty stuff you unleashed at her...you should be ashamed), or anyone else I suppose can be tolerated...we're adults and can look after ourselves. What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.
Finally I would add that your extreme dependence on those irritating laughing smiley faces to be able to express your thoughts seems odd (given your profession). It brings to mind the expression "Why can't Johnny read"?
So...this is why I have invoked your profession as being relevant to this discussion.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Maybe we should place some bets...... Or better yet start a poll!! LOL

I have driven to Atlanta several times from NH. Traveling at around 70 MPH, I have found that Richmond is almost always 12 hours away. Depends on time of day of course.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by chipj29

I have driven to Atlanta several times from NH. Traveling at around 70 MPH, I have found that Richmond is almost always 12 hours away. Depends on time of day of course.

Leaving at 3 AM.. hoping to make it thru NY early... Will have to see.. My buddy has done it 8 times in the past 3 years and normally he is 9 - 10... Will let you know..

I thought we were going to start a poll??? But of course it won't be valid if it doesn't go my way..

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

The polls are up to the honesty and integrety (sic) of everyone on the forum.

You mean the scofflaws who brag about ignoring and breaking our boating laws, or the cheerleaders who high-five them for it?

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Yet again calling my profession into the argument. Will you please stop? How many times do I have to ask? Could you just stop? Seriously?

You call others much much worse, and refuse to stop when they ask. You called me a liar (and never gave that promised apology). Why are you embarrassed by your profession? Teaching is a noble vocation. Wear the title with pride. It is your logic (and spelling) that you should be embarrassed about.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Why the heck would we or anyone care what a resident of lets (sic) say Salem New Hampshire thinks about a speed limit on a lake they have never been to? Explain to me why those people should have ANY say on what recreation takes place on this lake?

Simple, because Winnipesaukee is THEIR lake. Why do retired people go to town meetings to vote on the school budget? Why do landowners who don't hunt post their land? Why did Northerners object to slavery? People have a right (and duty) to opine about and take part in the management of the things in which they have a vested interest. And contrary to your opinion, a vested interest in a lake does not require a Boater's Certificate. Every citizen of NH is effected by the goings-on at Lake Winnipesaukee. If you cannot appreciate that, then you really may be in the wrong profession.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I am reasonably confident that I could create a question that could be posed to the general New Hampshire public that would result in showing that New Hampshire residents favor some sort of restrictions on sailboats.

There has already been one...the same ARG poll. It applies equally to ALL boats. The Lake's owners favor (by 83% to 9%, with a +/-3% margin of error), that sail boats cannot go over 45MPH. I respect and abide by that. If polled, I'm sure that NH's residents would probably be near unanimous in support of our existing inclusion of sailors in our DUI law. And I respect and abide by that. I have no problem with reasonable limits on sailing, and I accept what society decides those reasonable limits should be. I would not want to be out their doing something that offends or endangers the rest of society. Maybe that's just me. And I recognize that "society" in NH includes ALL of NH's citizens, even if they live in Salem. What you want is akin to polling NAMBLA and asking if it is ok to sleep with little boys, and saying, "Why the heck would we or anyone care what a heterosexual woman thinks about man-boy love?

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Most non boaters that visit my camp are ABSOLUTELY BLOWN AWAY that I drive my boat at night without headlights!

If 83% of Winnipesaukee's owners wanted boats to have headlights at night, I would be the first to have headlights installed, even if the law did not require. But maybe that's just me. I prefer to fit into society rather than buck it. But based on the posts we see in these Anti-Speed Limit threads, even if the law was changed to require headlights, many of you would be driving around with your headlights shut-off, for no reason except to buck society, and bragging about it on this forum, and the rest would be high-fiving you. Then when one of you killed someone or drove aground, you'd excuse it because he was drunk.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

So while you put stock in your statewide poll, I'll put stock in the poll answered by boaters

It has nothing to do with "stock". It is purely statistics. I can't believe a teacher, of all people, cannot understand statistics. Do you skip over the evolution chapters in your science books and give your kids hand-outs about intelligent design too?

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Your understanding and interpretation of polls and polling is limited at best. Your faith in the statewide poll is confirmation of this fact.

Wow. This one is going in the Whacky Post HOF. Now I'm really glad I sent my kids to private school.

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Would you support some form of additional tax or fee to support the Marine Patrol in efforts specifically targeted to stop BUI and obvious dangerous violations on the water?

I think the fines from DUI, speed limit, and other boating law violations should be given back directly to the MP. At the present, some guy in Salem who has never even boated on Lake Winnipesaukee is helping to pay for our MP enforcement (as he should, since he is an equal owner of the lake), but it is always fairer to society when the violators of our laws are forced to pay for law enforcement, IMO. It inspires law enforcement to do their jobs, and it reduces taxes (statewide).

[OCDACTIVE]

so anyone taking bets on the driving time?

[hazelnut]

The last two posts by Turtleboy and elchase do nothing but further my points. The ironic part is that they are patting themselves on the back for well thought out informative posts. The reality is that both of you come off less and less intelligent with each post and as usual regress to snippiness and personal attacks. You have no new information and your interpretation of the old information is comical. The headlight analogy was used puposefully as a ludicrous example. The fact that you would consider the adoption of the use of headlights IF a law was passed further proves your limited knowledge of boating as a whole. The fact that you don't understand that headlight use at night would pose a significant safety hazzard perplexes me. The sole reason I used the example. To me it immediately discredits any opinion you may have related to boating.

Thanks for doing nothing but proving my points over and over again.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Let me explain something in the simplest terms for you. Your profession tweaked the Turtle family's interest last year when you opined at length about the validity of forum polls. We were intrigued that someone(a teacher, no less) who spelled poll incorrectly (no, it's not spelled pole) felt so entitled to rant about whether a self poll on a boating forum might indeed have any significant validity. Since that time, the only progress you have made in this arena has been that you learned how to spell the word correctly.



Less entertaining than the poll/pole spelling difficulties is the following. We have all heard mention on this forum that perhaps there is a correlation between those who are dominating, intimidating, and rude on the forum and those who might act similarly on the lake. This kind of behavior from you directed at anyone who disagrees with your beliefs, whether it be me, EL, Evenstar (really nasty stuff you unleashed at her...you should be ashamed), or anyone else I suppose can be tolerated...we're adults and can look after ourselves. What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.
Finally I would add that your extreme dependence on those irritating laughing smiley faces to be able to express your thoughts seems odd (given your profession). It brings to mind the expression "Why can't Johnny read"?
So...this is why I have invoked your profession as being relevant to this discussion.

As a part time college professor and business statistic was my profession for 40 years, I beg to differ.................

Sorry, but I must add validity to our profession.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

. This kind of behavior from you directed at anyone who disagrees with your beliefs, whether it be me, EL, Evenstar (really nasty stuff you unleashed at her...you should be ashamed), or anyone else I suppose can be tolerated...we're adults and can look after ourselves. What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.
Finally I would add that your extreme dependence on those irritating laughing smiley faces to be able to express your thoughts seems odd (given your profession). It brings to mind the expression "Why can't Johnny read"?
So...this is why I have invoked your profession as being relevant to this discussion.

You can not just state something and wish it to be true. I unleashed NOTHING nasty on anyone on here ever. Go ahead and prove it. I said nothing on here to anyone at any time that wasn't said directly at me.

Again you call in to the argument how I do my job. It has no relevance on this forum. I am filing a formal complaint to the moderator as we speak. Constantly calling my job into the argument while questioning my intelligence crosses the line I'm afraid.

Here are a few smiley faces for you TB: I use them to show emotion. They are called emoticons. Look it up. Uusually used to show how I am feeling when I type the message. For example the smiley face: Usually shows that I am happy and having fun while I type. Like this:

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

so anyone taking bets on the driving time?

OCD, I am going to jump in the fray and take your bet, because you will be hitting NJ at 7:00am and you will lose that additional half hour putting you over 10 hours.

If I am right I would like a ride in that scary GFBL you have (I will hopefully be docked accross from from the Naswa at Channel). If you win I owe you a few cold ones.

The highway speed is faster than average, all smaller roads are average (you are towing a boat)

Time Mile Instruction For Toward
Summary: 630.4 miles (9 hours, 32 minutes)
3:00 AM 0.0 Depart Concord on US-202 [US-3] (North) 142 yds
3:00 AM 0.1 Turn RIGHT (East) onto SR-9 [Loudon Rd] 0.2 mi
3:00 AM 0.3 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-93 [Everett Tpke] 3.4 mi I-93
3:04 AM 3.6 *Toll road* Stay on I-93 [Everett Tpke] (South-East) 7.8 mi
3:11 AM 11.5 Keep LEFT onto I-293 [Everett Tpke] 8.1 mi I-293 / Everett Turnpike South / Manchester / Nashua
3:19 AM 19.6 *Toll road* Road name changes to Everett Tpke 9.9 mi Everett Turnpike South / Merrimack / Nashua
3:29 AM 29.4 At exit 10, stay on Everett Tpke (South) 3.4 mi
3:33 AM 32.9 Road name changes to US-3 [Everett Tpke] 14.0 mi
3:40 AM 39.7 Entering Massachusetts
3:47 AM 46.9 At exit 32, keep RIGHT onto Ramp 0.2 mi RT-4 / Westford / Chelmsford
3:47 AM 47.1 At roundabout, take the SECOND exit onto SR-4 [North Rd] 1.5 mi RT-4 / Chelmsford / Acton
3:50 AM 48.6 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-495 22.6 mi I-495 / Littleton / Worcester
4:10 AM 71.2 At exit 25B, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-290 20.0 mi I-290 / Worcester
4:26 AM 91.3 At exit 8, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.1 mi RT-12 S / Webster
4:26 AM 91.4 Turn LEFT (South) onto Oxford St N 164 yds RT-12 S / Oxford / Webster
4:26 AM 91.5 Bear RIGHT (South-West) onto SR-12 [Southbridge St] 0.1 mi
4:27 AM 91.6 Turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.4 mi I-90 / Mass Pike / Springfield / Boston
4:27 AM 91.9 Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp 0.4 mi I-90
4:29 AM 92.4 *Toll road* Merge onto I-90 [Mass Pike] 11.4 mi
4:38 AM 103.8 At exit 9, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-84 [Wilbur Cross Hwy] 41.6 mi I-84 / US-20 / Hartford / New York City
4:45 AM 112.2 Entering Connecticut
5:15 AM 145.4 At exit 57, take Ramp (LEFT) onto SR-15 [Wilbur Cross Hwy] 1.1 mi CT-15 / I-91 S / Charter Oak Br / N. Y. City
5:16 AM 146.5 Road name changes to US-5 [SR-15] 0.8 mi
5:17 AM 147.3 At exit 86, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-91 36.5 mi I-91 / New Haven / N. Y. City
5:47 AM 183.9 Take Ramp (LEFT) onto I-95 [Governor John Davis Lodge Tpke] 64.8 mi I-95 / N.Y. City
6:34 AM 231.8 Entering New York
6:50 AM 248.6 At exit 6A, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.2 mi I-95 / I-678 / Cross Bronx Exp / Geo Washington Br / Whitestone Br
6:50 AM 248.8 Take Ramp (LEFT) onto I-95 [Cross Bronx Expy] 7.8 mi
6:57 AM 255.3 Entering New Jersey
6:58 AM 256.6 Keep LEFT onto I-95 Express Ln [New Jersey Tpke] 2.6 mi I-95 EXPRESS / New Jersey Turnpike / I-80 / Garden State Parkway
7:01 AM 259.2 Road name changes to I-95 [New Jersey Tpke] 1.5 mi I-95 / New Jersey Turnpike / US-46 / The Ridgefields
7:02 AM 260.7 *Toll road* Stay on I-95 [New Jersey Tpke] (South) 48.8 mi
7:44 AM 309.4 *Toll road* Road name changes to New Jersey Tpke 68.0 mi
8:41 AM 377.5 *Toll road* Road name changes to US-40 [New Jersey Tpke] 0.5 mi
8:41 AM 378.0 *Toll road* Road name changes to I-295 [US-40] 0.4 mi
8:42 AM 378.4 Stay on I-295 [US-40] (West) 5.2 mi
8:42 AM 379.2 Entering Delaware
8:47 AM 383.6 Turn LEFT onto Ramp 0.3 mi I-95
8:47 AM 383.8 Keep LEFT to stay on Ramp 0.5 mi I-95
8:48 AM 384.3 At exit 5, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-95 [Delaware Tpke] 10.1 mi I-95 / Del. Tpke. / Baltimore
8:58 AM 394.5 *Toll road* *Tollbooth* Stay on I-95 [Delaware Tpke] (West) 1.3 mi
8:59 AM 395.8 Entering Maryland
8:59 AM 395.8 Stay on I-95 [John F Kennedy Memorial Hwy] (West) 48.2 mi
9:38 AM 444.0 Keep LEFT onto I-895 [Harbor Tunnel Throughway] 15.1 mi I-895 / Harbor Tunnel Thruway / Annapolis / Bay Bridge
9:53 AM 459.1 Merge onto I-95 18.2 mi
10:08 AM 477.4 At exit 27-25, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.4 mi I-495 / US-1 / College Park / Silver Spring
10:08 AM 477.7 At exit 27, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-495 [I-495 Outerloop] 30.1 mi I-495 / Silver Spring
10:24 AM 493.5 Entering Virginia
10:38 AM 507.9 At exit 57A, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-95 85.1 mi I-95 / Richmond
11:53 AM 593.0 At exit 84A, take Ramp (LEFT) onto I-295 14.7 mi I-295 / Rocky Mt NC
12:04 PM 607.6 At exit 28A, take Ramp (RIGHT) onto I-64 4.9 mi I-64 / Norfolk / VA Beach
12:10 PM 612.5 At exit 205, turn RIGHT onto Ramp 0.2 mi VA-33 / VA-249 / US-60 / Bottoms Bridge / Quinton
12:10 PM 612.7 Take Ramp (RIGHT) onto SR-33 [New Kent Hwy] 0.3 mi VA-33 / US-60 / Bottoms Bridge
12:11 PM 613.0 Road name changes to New Kent Hwy 10 yds
12:11 PM 613.0 Bear LEFT (South-East) onto US-60 [Pocahontas Trail] 9.6 mi
12:21 PM 622.6 Turn RIGHT (South) onto SR-155 [N Courthouse Rd] 65 yds
12:22 PM 622.6 Turn LEFT (East) onto SR-155 [Boulevard Rd] 131 yds
12:22 PM 622.7 Bear RIGHT (East) onto SR-155 [S Courthouse Rd] 2.1 mi
12:25 PM 624.8 Keep STRAIGHT onto SR-155 [Courthouse Rd] 5.3 mi
12:31 PM 630.1 Road name changes to Courthouse Rd 0.2 mi
12:32 PM 630.4 Arrive Charles City

SUMMARY
Driving distance: 630.4 miles
Trip duration: 9 hours, 32 minutes
Driving time: 9 hours, 32 minutes
Cost: $122.69

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

You can not just state something and wish it to be true. I unleashed NOTHING nasty on anyone on here ever. Go ahead and prove it. I said nothing on here to anyone at any time that wasn't said directly at me.

Again you call in to the argument how I do my job. It has no relevance on this forum. I am filing a formal complaint to the moderator as we speak. Constantly calling my job into the argument while questioning my intelligence crosses the line I'm afraid.

Here are a few smiley faces for you TB: I use them to show emotion. They are called emoticons. Look it up. Uusually used to show how I am feeling when I type the message. For example the smiley face: Usually shows that I am happy and having fun while I type. Like this:

Question someone's intelligence? You could never do that. Here's some Hazelnutese from May, '08:
"Not only are YOU self centered but you fail at comprehension.
I'll slow it down for you.....
Sorry I'll never ever agree that kayaking in the broads is wise speed limit or no speed limit. I think it is dumb actually".

Calling in the moderator??? Boy, you sure can dish it out, but when someone else gives it back...well, you run for cover behind mommy's skirt.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Question someone's intelligence? You could never do that. Here's some Hazelnutese from May, '08:
"Not only are YOU self centered but you fail at comprehension.
I'll slow it down for you.....
Sorry I'll never ever agree that kayaking in the broads is wise speed limit or no speed limit. I think it is dumb actually".

Calling in the moderator??? Boy, you sure can dish it out, but when someone else gives it back...well, you run for cover behind mommy's skirt.

THAT'S IT?!?!? THAT'S ALL YOU'VE GOT?

Wow I am such a jerk! ha ha ha ha

Yes it is dumb to kayak inthe broads. That is my opinion. I stick to it. What else did I say? Oh yeah I called someone self centered and told them they failed at comprehension.

Wow. So that opens me up to ridicule and allows you to use my profession to belittle me in an argument you are failing at? I am sorry to disagree with you but... I do. Why don't you share with us what you do for a living?

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

THAT'S IT?!?!? THAT'S ALL YOU'VE GOT?

Wow I am such a jerk! ha ha ha ha

The fact that TB had to go back a year and a half through all your threads to find that makes it even funnier! Someone has too much time on their hands.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by codeman671

The fact that TB had to go back a year and a half through all your threads to find that makes it even funnier! Someone has too much time on their hands.

Actually, I started on the last page (page 20 I believe). But all you have to do is go back to July/August of this year!

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I unleashed NOTHING nasty on anyone on here ever.

Hazelnut, you just recently called me a liar. You promised to apologize, but were not woman enough to do it when shown you were wrong. You have time and again shown yourself to be nasty and insulting, then like the others in your group, you tack a few smiley faces at the end of your posts so you can later pretend you were just "razzing" (whatever that means).
The bottom line is that 83% (+/- 3%) of the registered voters of NH (who own the lake, pay for its management, pay higher taxes when it is mismanaged and tourism drops, pay lower taxes when it is better managed and tourism rises, elect the State's legislators, and may or may not use the lake for any one of a wide variety of purposes) want a speed limit on it, and their votes are THE most important influence on the legislators from all around the state...even from Salem. We cannot limit to just votes of boating citizens or to the legislators representing them...not in this country. And the other bottom line is that you guys have polled yourselves and can't even agree amongst yourselves whether we should have any laws at all or should just leave it up to people with no common sense to make their own choices about what is appropriate. Good luck taking that to Concord and good luck in the independent country that you guys form because you need to drive your boats over 45MPH. Just don't base your economy on tourism.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by elchase

The bottom line is that 83% (+/- 3%) of the registered voters of NH

Show me the money...........................

[gtagrip]

[QUOTE=elchase;109110]Hazelnut, you just recently called me a liar.

Oh, boo hoo! Did you go run and tell your mommy? You sound like my 5 year old. Actually, my 5 year old can take it!

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Did you go run and tell your mommy?

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by elchase

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

If I had seen this in the local papers, I would have send condolence.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by elchase

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

Sorry to hear about your mother. I re-tract the "mommy comment. But actually, I have better things to do than investigate you or who you are. I could actually careless.

[NoBozo]

All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB

[Ryan]

I wonder how the ARG poll would have turned out if the results from the MP speed survey had been referenced in the survey question?

It's very surprising that none of those findings were included...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB

I'm watching that closely..... Not only that but if it rains there goes my Sat. as well... Will have to pull the engine as well as detail the entire boat....... Again!... lol.. She will be rocking next year...

Next year we will definately meet up and settle the bet...

Better yet lets meet in the middle of the broads and enjoy some fun runs. See if we can get a group of us together...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

All bets are OFF if it RAINS. NB

you never mention snow!!!

407 votes so far..... seems that if you take away everyone who has commented in this thread there is still a very wide margin of people from winni.com voting.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

you never mention snow!!!

407 votes so far..... seems that if you take away everyone who has commented in this thread there is still a very wide margin of people from winni.com voting.

But this is a GFBL site remember.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

But this is a GFBL site remember.

Sorry forgot.. Also remember almost all the votes are those from people on other sites.

[ApS]

"...The polls are up to the honesty and integrety of everyone on the forum...Those that choose to cheat the system are the handicaped low-life losers..."

Um...umm...ummm...

No comment.

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

"...407 votes so far..... seems that if you take away everyone who has commented in this thread there is still a very wide margin of people from winni.com voting..."

Originally Posted by hazelnut

"...But this is a GFBL site remember..."

To quote John F. Kerry, (sorta):

"Would that it were so...would that it were so..."

[BroadHopper]

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

[Kracken]

The ARG poll question was:

Do you favor or oppose a law that would impose speed limits for boats on large lakes in New Hampshire?

Favor: 64 Oppose 22 Undecided 14.

An interesting point:
29% of republicans were against a speed limit while 8% of Democrats opposed it.

The poll question did not try to educate the sample in any way. Nor did it give specifics of what a speed limit should be. How valid is an opinion if the person being asked has little to no knowledge of the subject.

When that happens you get answers like this:

“I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our ….” Caitlin Upton

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

Interesting read- I have a hard time giving any business or professional organization any credibility when I see AOL email adresses such as those that ARG lists.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%???? Not all of the 600 folks are registered voters.

According to the 2000 Census found on nh.gov website there are 1,235,786 folks in NH. rule out those that are under 18 (309,401) you have 926,385 potential voters. According to Wikipedia as of 2002 25.6% of the registered voters are Democrats, 36.7% are Republicans and the rest (37.7%) are 'independents'.

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters? ARG did not say where these folks are located. My best guess is that ARG is located in Manchester and I can bet you 'rita that those polled are in the greater Manchester area.

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007...rch-group.html

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position. I can't wait to hear how this one gets spun though.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position. I can't wait to hear how this one gets spun though.

Oh, Hazelnut, don't you know that this probably does not contain all the
facts.

[Kracken]

There must be another ARG poll; this one does not seem to be the one some of the proponents are citing.

I am disappointed OCD did not start a driving to VA poll, will he make it…or won’t he.

Originally Posted by Ryan

I wonder how the ARG poll would have turned out if the results from the MP speed survey had been referenced in the survey question? It's very surprising that none of those findings were included

I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

So where did the 83% of the NH voters come from?????

You guys are right. I made a mistake and apologize. Sometimes my memory is not perfect. The 83% was Democrats. The percentage of total voters was "only" 78%. Thanks for sending me back to do the research that you guys seem so unable to do.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

According to American Research Group only 64% of 600 people interviewed by phone is in favor of the speed limit. ARG claims a margin of error of only 9%????

Now you surely know that you are quoting the first of three polls and the one most favorable to you (even though still hugely unfavorable to you), don't you? You guys complained about the lack of specificity in this question so it was repeated with a more specific 45/25 question and the favorability rose significantly. Then you complained that the sample size was too small (although it was more than statistically sufficient already), so the sample size was increased and the favorability again increased significantly. You guys know all this, but keep quoting the first poll. WHY?
Their June '05 poll asked 600 randomly selected people across NH "Do you favor or oppose a state law placing a 45 miles per hour daytime and 25 miles per hour nighttime speed limit on boats operating on New Hampshire lakes?", to which the response was 63% in favor and 9% opposed. 9 voters favored a speed limit to every one that opposed.
Their February '07 poll asked 2000 randomly selected people across NH "Do you favor or oppose a law that places speed limits on boats on lakes in New Hampshire?". 78% of all voters (R and D) answered in support and only 18% opposed.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

So my point is how can less than 600 folks represent the consensus of 926,385 potential voters?

You claim to have been a professional statistician and you have to ask this question? Come on. Assuming as I must that you just made that up, if you have to ask this question, did you at least look at the link we discussed yesterday that explains all about the statistical accuracy of polls based on sample size, or do you only read stuff that you know is going to tell you what you want to hear? Did you even try to look into this yourself before you asked this question? Have you ever been to a casino? They must love to see "professional statisticians" like you coming.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Take a look at this blog regarding the credibility of ARG.

A blog? Your resorting to blogs now? Did you google ARG and find a negative result on the tenth page and decide that was good enough to entirely undermine ARG's credibility? Did you even read the blog? Do you know whose blog it is and what his history with ARG's founder is? "Mr. Bennett's attempt to hide a substantial amount of cash from his deceased father's estate that should have been used for the care of his mother, is this sort of individual trustworthy as a head of a polling organization?" Sounds like a hatchet job by a guy with a grudge, no? But just for the sake of argument let's assume this guy is teling the truth...please tell us how Mr. Bennett's family financial dealings disqualify the finding that 78% of NH voters favor a speed limit? Specifically? How is the accuracy of the poll done by his employees undone by Bennett's relationship with his mother?

Originally Posted by Kracken

The poll question did not try to educate the sample in any way. Nor did it give specifics of what a speed limit should be.
When that happens you get answers like this:

Do you know anything about polling? Just because Katy Couric and Dan Rather might try to "educate" people before they "poll" them does not mean it is proper. Polls are not meant to "educate", they are meant to measure. ARG did a very accurate job measuring the opinion of Granite Staters on this issue. And based on the rising favorability during a time when the State's newspapers were flooded with discussion on this topic, it's hard to artgue that people did not understand what they were saying.

Originally Posted by Kracken

“I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some, people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our ….”

I looked and looked, but simply can't find where any of the NH voters polled by ARG said this or anything so irrelevant. In fact, it has the intelligence, coherence, and grammar that one would more likely expect from one of you guys. But please tell us again how it relates to this discussion.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Thanks for the link. It further solidifies my position.

No surprise there. But I am surprised you guys are not just giving links to each other's posts to "solidify your positions". Have you thought of that? It makes as much sense.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by elchase

I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.

Hey that screws up my movie- The magnificent 8 just does not sound right. Who is the newest member on your S List???

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by elchase

I wonder if everyone in the state would have favored the speed limit (except the 8 of you or course) had it been taken right after the crash of the boat driven by the NHRBA president. It's very surprising that you don't mention that.

Was that crash speed related? I forgot the outcome of the trial....

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by elchase

You claim to have been a professional statistician and you have to ask this question? Come on. Assuming as I must that you just made that up, if you have to ask this question, did you at least look at the link we discussed yesterday that explains all about the statistical accuracy of polls based on sample size, or do you only read stuff that you know is going to tell you what you want to hear? Did you even try to look into this yourself before you asked this question? Have you ever been to a casino? They must love to see "professional statisticians" like you coming.

A blog? Your resorting to blogs now? Did you google ARG and find a negative result on the tenth page and decide that was good enough to entirely undermine ARG's credibility? Did you even read the blog? Do you know whose blog it is and what his history with ARG's founder is? "Mr. Bennett's attempt to hide a substantial amount of cash from his deceased father's estate that should have been used for the care of his mother, is this sort of individual trustworthy as a head of a polling organization?" Sounds like a hatchet job by a guy with a grudge, no? But just for the sake of argument let's assume this guy is teling the truth...please tell us how Mr. Bennett's family financial dealings disqualify the finding that 78% of NH voters favor a speed limit? Specifically? How is the accuracy of the poll done by his employees undone by Bennett's relationship with his mother?

In the first paragraph, I did not make the numbers up. It is publish in the nh.gov website. If you can't find it, here is the link. Quit discrediting me.
http://www.nh.gov/oep/programs/DataC...CensusData.htm

In the second paragraph, I have searched and searched and have not found one positive blog or feedback regarding ARG. If you can find one, I will be more than happy to read it and take it into consideration.

What makes no sense if that how can 64% of those polled are in favor of the speed limit then 83% thinks 45/25 makes the lakes safer???? Does not make sense!

Show me the link to the 2007 poll that you are trying to tell me and I will believe you. ARG do not have that poll listed on their website. You need to back up what you say. Like I did.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

My mother just died last month after a long and painful battle with cancer. I'm guessing after all the investigating of me that you guys did that you knew of this. You are a real class act.

elchase,

What an awful tragedy. As many have said Cancer is an ugly thing and it can be devastating to families. I myself am a former President of my local Chapter of the American Cancer Society. I was chairperson of an event that raised over $200,000 during my tenure. I witnessed many a heartbreak with relation to Cancer. Fortunately I was able to witness many triumph's as well.

With that said this statment: "You are a real class act. " that you made towards gtagrip was a bit harsh. I am sure he had no idea and I am sure he would not have said it if he knew.

Your posting buddy TurtleBoy made a comment about my mother in an earlier post on this thread. Is he a real class act? He has no idea with regard to my mothers health or wellbeing.

I am sure your comment was made out of passion but I am also just as sure that gtagrip meant nothing personal. Jus as I believe TurtleBoy was only using a saying when he referred to me "hiding behind my mommy's skirt."

You two (elchase and Turlteboy) claim to be above the fray and victims in all of this. My thoughts lean towards, you reap what you sow and that you are not innocent in all of this.

[gtagrip]

[QUOTE=Turtle Boy;109037]What concerns me is...well...do you treat your students in such a belittling manner? These kids might have no other choice than to endure such behavior. Kids are impressionable...what they see is sometimes what they imitate.

I'm sure hazelnut doesn't have to treat his students the way he treats you. I'm sure they are more mature than you are. Did I spell everything correctly by the way?