Rather Disappointing

[Phantom]

I just know this thread will spin out of control, but I am truly dissapointed in the owners of the Merideth Bay Bob houses.

Came up once again this weekend to "escape" and took a ride Saturday into Merideth to see how many ( if any) Bob houses were left as there are still a few brave ones (nutz) here in Saunders Bay.

Although we have been coming to the Lake for 25+ years, we have never been around in this part of the season ( ice starting to melt).

Perhaps a natural and repatative problem each year, my wife & I were quite dissapointed by the amount of clutter ( garbage) left in the wake of the removed Bob houses on Merideth Bay. Dozens of small pine trees (2-4 ft high), blocks (4x4, 6x6) of solid wood, piles of ash from firepits, etc. i just don't understand.... If you were able to take the Bob house safely off the lake.... WHY IN GOD'S NAME... wouldn't you clean up your "yard".

On the other hand as one who has continually boated early in the season... I fully understand NOW how all the boating hazards/debris gets there in the first place.

I am by no means super environmentalist type, those who know me can certainly confirm THAT, we have gas guzzling cars, power boats, etc..... But we are ALL caretakers to this ( and any ) lake. When boating we great care when "rafting" not to leave anything behind.

This is just plain WRONG & SHAMEFUL !


.

[thinkxingu]

I see no reason for this thread to spin out of control. I can't imagine anyone with the slightest understanding of how things SHOULD work disagreeing. Personally, I think those people should be fined for littering, just like they would be if they threw that crap in the street.

[LIforrelaxin]

There is nothing being stated here that should spin out of control....

As for how to remedy the situation I believe it is within the capability of the fish and game dept. who I believe monitors Bob houses... to start taking photo graphs and documenting what is left behind. Many Bob house are put on the ice and stay in one location... the trash they leave behind can easily be accredited to them... Also all Bob houses the last I knew, had to have information identifying the owner......If fines for littering start flowing out to Bob house owners the situation will likely change.

The pieces are all their... Identification .... Laws against littering.... all that is missing is the drive to enforce....

That aside I am sure Fish and Game goes after big offenders, it all the small ones that make the job hard.

[SAB1]

Prime example of why the government keeps coming out with new laws and regulations. People have no respect and don't take of there own. Same reason why we see tampons and toilet paper washing up on the beach. We fish with bob houses and leave the ice clean every weekend. In today's error of technology you would think Registering a bob house with F&G and having sometime of GPS tracker in the bob house would be easy to do. I would have no problem with that.

[dave603]

But how many of those people bring their dogs out there with them?

[SAB1]

I can count on one hand the number of dogs I see on the ice. I could never grow enough fingers or toes to guess how many fisherman use the ice.......

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by dave603

But how many of those people bring their dogs out there with them?

Time for the Fish & Game to mandate that all fish wear diapers.

[tis]

And the geese, Song!!!

[upthesaukee]

...but in past years, Alton Bay becomes a frozen depository for pieces of 2x4 and other pieces of lumber, and some trash.

Love the old back-packing adage. If you carry it in, carry it out and leave the place better looking than when you arrived.

Unfortunately, it is not just ice-fishing folks to blame. I have picked up trash along snowmobile trails, picked up trash on golf courses, and best of all, try doing a roadside clean up along our highways.

We will be doing one on rte 11 in Alton at the end of April, and we will be picking up 25 to 30 bags of trash in a 2 mile stretch.

Sad.

[Phantom]

Didn't have the opportunity yesterday, but would someone mind taking a quick photo from the public docks area out onto the Bay to show those who are off in other locals what we are describing please.


.

[Webbsatwinni]

Shouldn't we all respect the lives of the poor fish being killed by the fisherman?

[MAXUM]

Before this gets a bit to far out of hand, how about some food for thought:

There are probably more people using either weirs beach or Ellacoya beach on one summer afternoon than totals the number of fisherman on the lake in the winter time over the course of winter. I would say the likelihood of who would pee in the lake (again I am not condoning this practice) is probably about the same if not a little higher in the summer. Dogs are going to pee anywhere so that's a moot point.

The reason why those blocks of wood are used under the bob houses is so that they can be easily removed in the spring. Over the course of the winter time, between snow fall and the natural cycle of thawing and freezing the blocks become inbedded in the ice. Now imagine what a bob house would do if it became frozen in 6" of ice because it was not put up on blocks. Could they and should they be removed, sure they should but I don't necessarily think it's a monumental ecological disaster having a few pieces of 2X4 floating around in the lake. The trash is an entirely different story and that is shameful that it's left behind because there is no need whatsoever for that to happen.

Just remember that it's a small number of people out there that don't care but it reflects bad on all ice fisherman. Just like anything else, eventually if something is done about it everyone will pay the price for the few who are irresponsible. Sadly, as history shows new laws and regulations no doubt will have little effect unless there is somebody out there actively policing what goes on. For those that don't care, it's likely they never will.

[Steveo]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Before this gets a bit to far out of hand, how about some food for thought:

The reason why those blocks of wood are used under the bob houses is so that they can be easily removed in the spring. Over the course of the winter time, between snow fall and the natural cycle of thawing and freezing the blocks become inbedded in the ice. Now imagine what a bob house would do if it became frozen in 6" of ice because it was not put up on blocks. Could they and should they be removed, sure they should but I don't necessarily think it's a monumental ecological disaster having a few pieces of 2X4 floating around in the lake. The trash is an entirely different story and that is shameful that it's left behind because there is no need whatsoever for that to happen.

The other issue with the wood blocks is they are used to secure the bob house against wind. Typically 4 holes are drilled at the corners of the house. A rope is tied to the wood block and placed in the hole braced against the bottom of the ice. The rope is then cinched down to secure the bob house. That hole eventually freezes and encases the wood block. Trying to get those blocks out in Spring is difficult, just easier to cut the rope and leave the block.

[Flotnjr]

If it's too much of a problem to dig up your blocks that get frozen in the ice- DON'T GO. I think a properly equipped ice fisherman knows how to get through the ice... no reason to have them left out there.

[thinkxingu]

^THIS. If your activity harms others' experiences, you need to adjust. I'd be very upset if I busted a prop on a 2x4, saw wildlife caught in garbage, etc.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I just know this thread will spin out of control, but I am truly dissapointed in the owners of the Merideth Bay Bob houses.

Came up once again this weekend to "escape" and took a ride Saturday into Merideth to see how many ( if any) Bob houses were left as there are still a few brave ones (nutz) here in Saunders Bay.

Although we have been coming to the Lake for 25+ years, we have never been around in this part of the season ( ice starting to melt).

Perhaps a natural and repatative problem each year, my wife & I were quite dissapointed by the amount of clutter ( garbage) left in the wake of the removed Bob houses on Merideth Bay. Dozens of small pine trees (2-4 ft high), blocks (4x4, 6x6) of solid wood, piles of ash from firepits, etc. i just don't understand.... If you were able to take the Bob house safely off the lake.... WHY IN GOD'S NAME... wouldn't you clean up your "yard".

On the other hand as one who has continually boated early in the season... I fully understand NOW how all the boating hazards/debris gets there in the first place.

I am by no means super environmentalist type, those who know me can certainly confirm THAT, we have gas guzzling cars, power boats, etc..... But we are ALL caretakers to this ( and any ) lake. When boating we great care when "rafting" not to leave anything behind.

This is just plain WRONG & SHAMEFUL !


.

This morning on my way through town, I looked out into the bay and there was a group of volunteers on sno mobiles out on the lake cleaning up ALL the debris left at all the ice fishing sites. They were putting the trash onto a sled and dragging it all back to the ramp where they were loading it onto a pickup truck. I hope someone snaps a picture of these people and posts their names as I am sure a lot of people here would love to thank them

[thinkxingu]

Just spent a few minutes over there with the kiddos, but the group was too far offshore to chat. Had a TON of stuff pulled from the ice: pallets, trees, trash, boards, etc. Bravo, rogue sledders!

[martbri7]

felt like I was sick of hearing about it talked to a friend and it took us 1 to 2 hours with 7 dedicated people to get this done....

[SAB1]

Good post maxum. Flotnjr has no idea what he is talking about. The tie downs for corners of the ice shack are buried in feet of ice and not retrievable. And who really cares if a few 2x4s are floating in the lake for a week. One good wind and they are on shore. One dry they are great in fire pit. Ice shacks have been the ice for decades and utilize the same principles to secure now as did then. The ice auger drills a 10 inch hole and the boards to secure the shack are 16 inches at best.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by martbri7

felt like I was sick of hearing about it talked to a friend and it took us 1 to 2 hours with 7 dedicated people to get this done....

Thank you very much.

[Misha888]

I did see one man remove the barrel. It was pouring, and see by the above photos that they didn't take the trees. Lots of debris this year, I'm certain.

Thank you to those who went on the ice. I don't go on the ice in the dead of winter, so hats off to you all.

[Misha888]

you've never had a fisherman attempt to take a dump on your front lawn, while you were in the house.

And apparently you don't put your boat in early, either. Whole pallets, trees and barrels are completely unacceptable.

Originally Posted by SAB1

Good post maxum. Flotnjr has no idea what he is talking about. The tie downs for corners of the ice shack are buried in feet of ice and not retrievable. And who really cares if a few 2x4s are floating in the lake for a week. One good wind and they are on shore. One dry they are great in fire pit. Ice shacks have been the ice for decades and utilize the same principles to secure now as did then. The ice auger drills a 10 inch hole and the boards to secure the shack are 16 inches at best.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Misha888

you've never had a fisherman attempt to take a dump on your front lawn, while you were in the house.

And apparently you don't put your boat in early, either. Whole pallets, trees and barrels are completely unacceptable.

If you read carefully what SAB1 wrote, and for that matter what I did, some, not all of the 2X4 blocks used to secure bob houses do get buried in the ice and are next to near impossible to get out in the spring. A few of those being left behind is one thing, the trash pictured is an entirely different matter and I agree with you it is completely unacceptable and I have no doubt that SAB1 would agree as well.

[exlakesregioner]

take one look at any roadside, people nowadays don't give a crap, anything and everything out the window!! I live in a pretty enclosed neighborhood, one way in and out, approx 140 homes, that trash coming in the main road is shameful, and the crap left in the mailhouse is just as bad, no respect anymore

[SAB1]

Overall fisherman are respectful as are hunters. Most remove everything the bring in. There are always a few bad apples in bushel. unfortunately that is the society we live in. Everyone knows that. But without fisherman and hunters you all don't enjoy what we have. Yes I have seen plenty. I have been on the lake over 50 years.

[MeredithMan]

As stated in previous posts, THANK YOU to the volunteers who cleaned up the ice in front of the Meredith Town Docks. We were up for only a 24 hour visit, but couldn't help but notice the debris on the ice on Saturday when we arrived and then the folks who were cleaning it up on Sunday mid-day when we left town. THANK YOU!!

[Phantom]

Kudo's to the crew who volunteered !!

My (and I am sure many others) sincere gratitude !

To the others, I fully understand "anchoring" a Bob house .... do those pictures posted by Martbri7 look like simple 2 x 4's ..... I see multiple Skids, a 55 gallon metal firepit, trees, and so on ....

That was what I was referring to in my original post.


Finally, I also understand it is the actions of a few that shed a bad name on the majority as is the case with campers, snowmobilers, etc. Same thing applies to boaters (keep that in mind with the next upcoming season). The goal is to help correct this behavior or shame into changing. I am quite confident that many who left that ridiculous amount of TRASH behind also read this forum.


Again MARTBRI7 .... Our sincere appreciation ! well done



.

[tis]

Glass bottles are just terrible to throw in the lake. They wash in to shore in the sand eventually and are broken and people cut their feet. It happened to one of us almost every year when we were kids. Rusty cans were also a problem, but I am thinking the cans are not the same material as they were years ago and are not so sharp.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I see no reason for this thread to spin out of control. I can't imagine anyone with the slightest understanding of how things SHOULD work disagreeing. Personally, I think those people should be fined for littering, just like they would be if they threw that crap in the street.

How do you fine them and prove who left what? Total nightmare to enforce.

[Phantom]

I would think it is more about "manners & respect" than Laws & Regulations

just my $0.02



.

[Grant]

Many cans and bottles are simply dumped down the hole in the bobhouse (or the hole without a bobhouse). It's pretty easy to see where this happens when you're diving the lake. a relatively neat pile of beer cans in the middle of nowhere (not near shore) is a pretty good indicator. I've seen it many times.

That said, I like to believe that most ice fisherfolk are environmentally minded, and do police their areas. It's the heavy-traffic areas like Meredith that will surely draw bigger crowds and, therefore, a handful of knuckleheads who leave their refuse behind.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by dpg

How do you fine them and prove who left what? Total nightmare to enforce.

Disagree....

Pictures speak 1000 words... what is to stop the local PD, or Fish and Game from going out on the ice every Monday... taking pictures gaining the ownership information from the Bob house and sending letters or fines to people who leave a mess around their Bob house. Well they are at it they can take down gps coordinates, to check back after Bob house is gone, and if a Mess is left then send a fine.

I believe enforcing something like this will take man power, but I don't believe it will be a nightmare...

Keep in mind by law every bob house is supposed to have the owners name and address attached.

Bottom line is that this is littering...

[DickR]

Originally Posted by SAB1

.....The tie downs for corners of the ice shack are buried in feet of ice and not retrievable. ...... Ice shacks have been the ice for decades and utilize the same principles to secure now as did then. The ice auger drills a 10 inch hole and the boards to secure the shack are 16 inches at best.

OK, then, perhaps those who do use ice shacks can devise a better technique for anchoring the shacks, one that won't leave anything behind. How about ice screws turned into a slightly undersized hole bored with a bit and brace or with the bit turned by a battery powered drill? With a large eye on the upper end of the anchor, a metal rod could be inserted to provide considerable leverage for installing and later removing the anchor. Only a pair ought to be needed to anchor opposite corners, I would think. Let the ice fishing community propose solutions that work. Then let word get around so that over time the older, offending practices become something "just not done here."

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Good post maxum. Flotnjr has no idea what he is talking about. The tie downs for corners of the ice shack are buried in feet of ice and not retrievable. And who really cares if a few 2x4s are floating in the lake for a week. One good wind and they are on shore. One dry they are great in fire pit. Ice shacks have been the ice for decades and utilize the same principles to secure now as did then. The ice auger drills a 10 inch hole and the boards to secure the shack are 16 inches at best.

Right on. I for one don't give a hoot about a few 2x4's floating around....that is...as long as YOU hit them with your boat, not me.
That is really a ludicrous statement.

[SAB1]

A 16 inch 2x4 floating in the lake would do nothing to your boat. It has next to no mass and the majority of time the bow pushes it right out of the way.

[SAB1]

I for one don't like seeing the trash left behind anymore than anyone else. It is appauling. The problem is some just don't care. Heck on trip into a public bathroom pretty much educates you on that. That is why I was saying something like a GPS tracker in a Bob House (maybe to far fetched) or a registration/permit system with local town clerks gets employed. Where you drop your ice house it stays. Doesn't move. Your required to submit the GPS coordinates to the Clerk to get the permit. As for the anchoring system with 2x4's I think the issue is a realitively small one. If it were a huge problem I would think F&G wouldn't allow it. Pretty much everyone on the lake knows the first couple weeks after ice out you should be on the watch out for debris and the throttle is pulled back a bit.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by SAB1

A 16 inch 2x4 floating in the lake would do nothing to your boat. It has next to no mass and the majority of time the bow pushes it right out of the way.

I don't know what kind/ size of boat YOU drive, but I sure as heck don't want to hit a 16" anything at 45MPH ( the legal limit ).

Get serious, it "has no mass" ...... Clearly you've never taken a Hull hit !

.

[MikeF-NH]

I think F&G could do something about it but am not sure they are inclined to spend the man hours with an already understaffed force to deal with it.

For starters, they could drop in to places like Merideth and Alton Bay and provide "education services". This would involve telling shanty owners that this year we are taking coordinates and ownership details and fining people for trash left on their coordinates. The fine doesn't have to happen and is probably unenforceable but it may reduce the issue.

As for the 2x4s - maybe they could criminalize using anything that floats as runners to keep shanties above the ice. Cinder blocks or better yet...rocks would sink and might be a better solution. If they didn't want to criminalize 2X4s then require that they be rendered to 1 foot sections via a chain saw before leaving the site.

I ice fish and will be unpopular for saying this but I'd like to see those season long shanties banned. People can use them but no overnight stays. Portables would fit the need and by having everyone mobile it would stop the bickering over who owns the ice and would stop a lot of this season-long littering that seems compulsive. It will never happen because of the "tradition" but even threatening the legislation and spreading the word may get some of these litter bugs to start policing themselves to save their pastime. I look at it this way....having a shanty all winter on the ice is a privilege and one that can be taken away if this can't be stopped.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Disagree....

Pictures speak 1000 words... what is to stop the local PD, or Fish and Game from going out on the ice every Monday... taking pictures gaining the ownership information from the Bob house and sending letters or fines to people who leave a mess around their Bob house. Well they are at it they can take down gps coordinates, to check back after Bob house is gone, and if a Mess is left then send a fine.

I believe enforcing something like this will take man power, but I don't believe it will be a nightmare...

Keep in mind by law every bob house is supposed to have the owners name and address attached.

Bottom line is that this is littering...

So if someone leaves trash 10 feet from your yard it MUST be yours and you get a fine for it? A total nightmare waiting to happen in my opinion. I don't totally disagree with the concept of a fine but that won't work. Hey, just my .02 your mileage may vary...

[minni on winni]

When we were kids, my family rented a cottage on the lake each summer. We had a large family with 8 kids. My father said it was a sign of respect to keep your environment clean. It showed others that you are proud of your name. He said the owners of the cottage would show our cottage to prospective renters rather than other rented cottages because we respected the owners and cared for their property. Care and respect. Maybe that is what the few ice fishermen lack. Lack of respect for the lake and for themselves, since the bob houses are registered in their names.
Thanks to all who made the effort to clean it up. Thank you very much!