Performance Boats- Alive and Well!!!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

And not facing forward...

Look closely at the picture.. It wasn't taken from the captains chair.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Look closely at the picture.. It wasn't taken from the captains chair.

Hey, even though his quick knock was inaccurate, as usual, at least he didn't add another barb towards GPS

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Hey, even though his quick knock was inaccurate, as usual, at least he didn't add another barb towards GPS

Haven't installed or purchased a GPS yet.... Due to those postings I am afraid of heading to Alton and end up on Point Sabago and get ridiculed.

[colt17]

is there a place to find out how many speeding tickets have been given todate?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by colt17

is there a place to find out how many speeding tickets have been given todate?

Sorry - couldn't resist

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by colt17

is there a place to find out how many speeding tickets have been given todate?

Not that I know of... That would mean that actual data is available. Something that proponents have tried to keep out of public knowledge.

By the way the toilet picture made me LMAO!!!!!!!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by colt17

is there a place to find out how many speeding tickets have been given todate?

Given the issue, I would think that every local and state news organization would be keeping their ears and eyes peeled for just such an instance. The Marine Patrol isn't expecting to issue many tickets, and I think they'll be issued as needed when other actions come into play. ie: perhaps reckless, too close, whatever. They don't seem particularly concerned or bothered by boats that may be doing 60 or so. Most don't do it for long.

Merrill Fay stated last year that people had already slowed down, and he noted an increase in activity with more people on the lake. He also said it quieted the lake down, and apparently the law was working and all was well. BTW, the law went into effect January 1st this year, after everything was ok.

My guess is the MP would want the first few tickets issued to Gross offenders that were also doing something else wrong that everybody disagreed with. I'm quite positive they'll have a couple of those to issue if history is any guide.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Look closely at the picture.. It wasn't taken from the captains chair.

But OCD those are facts Don't clog it up with facts.... It plays much better if APS can say you were driving and taking the picture at the same time. Oh wait I just smelled the picture.... yup... I smell beer. You reckless crazy man! And I can tell from the picture that you have a toddler on the bow of the boat.... Not that I can see it I just..."sense" it.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

But OCD those are facts Don't clog it up with facts.... It plays much better if APS can say you were driving and taking the picture at the same time. Oh wait I just smelled the picture.... yup... I smell beer. You reckless crazy man! And I can tell from the picture that you have a toddler on the bow of the boat.... Not that I can see it I just..."sense" it.

Damn.. You must have been the kayaker who saw me and tried to make a citizens arrest

I was trying to take apart multiple posts you have made in the past years to prove a point but I couldn't figure out how to do it.

Anyway, leaving shortly for the lake. I was going to put the boat in today but may wait until tomorrow or maybe not at all... Weather is not looking good.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

WOW Gorgeous boat!!!! Would love to see a pic of the engines!

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I had a hard drive crash, did some traveling and had to buy a new computer.

I lent the only picture I had to a buddy to dress up his office when he moved from the shop into sales when we worked together at Grappone Ford heavy Truck, down in Concord. It ended up missing.

I do have a picture of two 750 HP engines that look very simaler, excepting the 900 HP had two 1350 cfm doual feed hollies on a high rise
tunnle Ram intake manifold.
750's http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo....php?photo=461

Distant Thunder Getting Wet.

Short Throttle's Up, while heading for open water.

[OCDACTIVE]

Wow.. Great looking boat!!... I wished mine looked like that when heading to open water.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Wow.. Great looking boat!!... I wished mine looked like that when heading to open water.

Getting to open water is a rush, although "Distant Thunder" was built to roam the oceans! I enjoyed the offshore boat races here on Lake Winnipesaukee while I lived here, and they lasted. I can't help but feel the rush that you feel by being able to enjoy your beautiful boat here as well.

I think that the new speed limit is very limiting, however the verdict will
be limiting as well.

Now to get back to where we left shore.

On only two engines, mind you and everyone. "Because of the deep V hull, the third outdrive was mounted lower on the transom, and when under full power the rooster tail was 75' tall behind this boat." Trust me.

"Boats Or What", ya got to love Em'

[HUH]

Personaly I think speed is relative.. My boat did not come with a speedometer but id guess it goes 70 something.. We were out the other day heading across the broads.. Typical situation where the 4 big cruisers all headed across my bow from the west all failed to stand down.. upon looking to my stern I realized another 35+ footer was full bore up my stern.. IMHO I had no choice but to avoid this typical situation with liberal use of the throttle.. It all worked out well and I remembered to give them all the universal signal..

[Airwaves]

Originally Posted by colt17

is there a place to find out how many speeding tickets have been given todate?

Originally posted by VTSteve

Given the issue, I would think that every local and state news organization would be keeping their ears and eyes peeled for just such an instance.

Not to contradict, but as I pointed out during the debate that must not be mentioned, Lake Winnipesaukee is just a blip on the overall news screen outside of the Lakes Region in NH, and isn't even a blip on the Boston media screen.

A speeding ticket does not news make! A forum like this is the place where that information is most likely to show up but only if someone wants to do the legwork and go over to Glendale on a regular basis and look.

[Bear Islander]

I don't see where the number of tickets make any difference. If there are many, it will be said the limit was needed. If there are few (or none) it will be argued the limit is working.

This is the oppositions "Kobayashi Maru" scenario.

[BroadHopper]

The MP's must have been concentrating their time looking for speeders.
The Captain Boneheads and Drunks were out full force!
Captain Pontoon came within feets of my boat as I am anchored in a Timber Island cove with grandkids in the water!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I don't see where the number of tickets make any difference. If there are many, it will be said the limit was needed. If there are few (or none) it will be argued the limit is working.

This is the oppositions "Kobayashi Maru" scenario.

But remember "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" or was it the other way around?

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I don't see where the number of tickets make any difference. If there are many, it will be said the limit was needed. If there are few (or none) it will be argued the limit is working.

This is the oppositions "Kobayashi Maru" scenario.

Perhaps some will. But the MP had a statement in the paper not long ago about proponents expectations. Did you read it?

[Kings Bluff]

From what I saw last week the MP's aren't enforcing the speed limits in Alton Bay. Boats continue to roar by at all hours of the day and night.

[fatlazyless]

Today, for the last two hours, that expensive looking helicopter slowly moving about the lake up at 500' or so, is probably the state police chopper. So, don't forget to smile and wave , and maybe you'll get to be televised on a soon-to-be-seen TruTV police epic!

Live from Lake Winnipesaukee....those boats can run....but can they hide....from the law enforcement eye in the sky?

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by FLL

Today, for the last two hours, that expensive looking helicopter slowly moving about the lake up at 500' or so, is probably the state police chopper. So, don't forget to smile and wave , and maybe you'll get to be televised on a soon-to-be-seen TruTV police epic!

Live from Lake Winnipesaukee....those boats can run....but can they hide....from the law enforcement eye in the sky?

At an average operating cost of $431.70 dollars an hour for a standard Bell 407 helicopter (not a helicopter with additional police equipment, avionics or personel) I doubt that the NHSP will be doing the "eye in the sky" trick very often over Lake Winnipesaukee to maybe watch for a boat or two!

[pm203]

I know of several people who have allready hit 100 mph on the lake this year. And a new 52 foot performance boat was just dropped in the lake this weekend. As far as Fay saying the lake is quieter? Its the weather.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by pmc

"...As far as Fay saying the lake is quieter? Its the weather..."

At noon yesterday, I counted 28 sailboats between Welch Island and Alton on The Broads. At that same moment, there were fewer powerboats!

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Look closely at the picture.. It wasn't taken from the captains chair.

Here?

Unless present, how can one make that assertion?

The "driver" could have temporarily left his navigational duties and taken the picture at arm's length: That would account for the extreme tilt to the horizon. (Or a terrified passenger—maybe).

[livefreeordie]

I spent both days on the water, sat on my dads nor-tech for the poker run and sun on my wakeboard boat with friends. Both days were full of people passing within 50ft under way and people not knowing the rules about standing down to boats on your right....

All weekend I felt surrounded by people who just got there first boat and had no clue what the rules were....

BTW big thanks to the big shot in his big Regal cruiser that smashed my dads boat into the dock messing up the paint and then acting like its no big deal and boats are meant to be scratched.... him and his whole crew were rude and very UN simpathetic.... people like that should be kicked off the lake back to ware they came from.... my Guess in NY or CT

[jrc]

LFOD if a guy smashed my boat into the dock and messed up the paint, I'd be looking for his insurance company, he can keep the sympathy.

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by livefreeordie

I spent both days on the water, sat on my dads nor-tech for the poker run and sun on my wakeboard boat with friends. Both days were full of people passing within 50ft under way and people not knowing the rules about standing down to boats on your right....

All weekend I felt surrounded by people who just got there first boat and had no clue what the rules were....

BTW big thanks to the big shot in his big Regal cruiser that smashed my dads boat into the dock messing up the paint and then acting like its no big deal and boats are meant to be scratched.... him and his whole crew were rude and very UN simpathetic.... people like that should be kicked off the lake back to ware they came from.... my Guess in NY or CT

Same here. Hats off to the moron on the "Syphen" who decided to blow past me just outside of the mouth of Alton Bay. He split the distance between myself and another boater who were about 250 ft apart.

[cowisl]

Nice to see many of the performance boats supporting the Easter Seals on Saturday.

[livefreeordie]

Originally Posted by cowisl

Nice to see many of the performance boats supporting the Easter Seals on Saturday.

def a great evet as always.....

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by AB_Monterey

Same here. Hats off to the moron on the "Syphen" who decided to blow past me just outside of the mouth of Alton Bay. He split the distance between myself and another boater who were about 250 ft apart.

That's better than most at 125' apart on each side


Good to see everything's under control over there.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by AB_Monterey

Same here. Hats off to the moron on the "Syphen" who decided to blow past me just outside of the mouth of Alton Bay. He split the distance between myself and another boater who were about 250 ft apart.

Seriously? You're upset because you had 125' feet between boats instead of 150'?

I do my absolute best to obey the 150' law, but damn if that isn't one of the most idiotic boating laws I've ever heard of. I keep seeing people getting so bent out of shape if someone comes within 80' of their boat. This is a relatively small lake, there are many places where no more than 2 boats can reasonably pass each other while also maintain adequate distance from shore, each other, other water hazards, etc.

Part of my big problem with the 150' law, is that it seems 1/2 of the people on the lake aren't aware of it, and 1/2 of the remaining bunch can't judge 150' with any degree of accuracy. I would much rather be alert and expect that a boat may come closer than 150' to me then expect people will obey this law.

If someone cuts across your bow or stern with only a dozen feet to spare, they are certainly reckless. If someone passes you 80 feet to the side because the area is congested, or simply because that is the most direct or logical path, you are not in imminent danger of death.

I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but that is just one that just seems like a waste of legislation.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I don't see where the number of tickets make any difference. If there are many, it will be said the limit was needed. If there are few (or none) it will be argued the limit is working.

This is the oppositions "Kobayashi Maru" scenario.

: laugh:
CLASSIC! BI, I got a huge kick outta this one. Whatever the facts may be yes they will ALWAYS support your argument. Thanks for the laugh.

Happy Boating 2009... Is it summer yet?

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Seriously? You're upset because you had 125' feet between boats instead of 150'?

I do my absolute best to obey the 150' law, but damn if that isn't one of the most idiotic boating laws I've ever heard of. I keep seeing people getting so bent out of shape if someone comes within 80' of their boat. This is a relatively small lake, there are many places where no more than 2 boats can reasonably pass each other while also maintain adequate distance from shore, each other, other water hazards, etc.

Part of my big problem with the 150' law, is that it seems 1/2 of the people on the lake aren't aware of it, and 1/2 of the remaining bunch can't judge 150' with any degree of accuracy. I would much rather be alert and expect that a boat may come closer than 150' to me then expect people will obey this law.

If someone cuts across your bow or stern with only a dozen feet to spare, they are certainly reckless. If someone passes you 80 feet to the side because the area is congested, or simply because that is the most direct or logical path, you are not in imminent danger of death.

I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but that is just one that just seems like a waste of legislation.

Yes, I spend alot of time avoiding those that have no idea what 150' feet is or could care less. That said, it is the law and I don't really give a damn if it's the "most direct way" or not.

I am always well aware of what's happening around me. He must've just pulled out of a cove becuse he was not there just seconds before he blew threw there and we always have 4 eyes watching the traffic. My wife is a bit of a paranoid about it.

There was plenty of room to our port for him to safely pass both of us.

[VtSteve]

There was plenty of room to our port for him to safely pass both of us.

And that's generally what I would do as well. It's more proper, less of an annoyance for others, and just a bit more friendly.

But he has a point. Many people couldn't judge 150' with a laser rangefinder I've been within half of that with two to three boats, traveling at (GASP!!!!!!!!!!!:eek) Plane speed. About 25 to 35 is fine.

Like I always say about interstate driving, If you can't travel from Vermont to NH at 75 mph without tapping your brakes without traffic, you really shouldn't be driving. Same at 70 mph, 65 mph .....

[ApS]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

"...I do my absolute best to obey the 150' law, but damn if that isn't one of the most idiotic boating laws I've ever heard of..."

What would happen if every boater ignored the rules that annoyed them?

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Seriously? You're upset because you had 125' feet between boats instead of 150'?

I do my absolute best to obey the 150' law, but damn if that isn't one of the most idiotic boating laws I've ever heard of. I keep seeing people getting so bent out of shape if someone comes within 80' of their boat. This is a relatively small lake, there are many places where no more than 2 boats can reasonably pass each other while also maintain adequate distance from shore, each other, other water hazards, etc.

Part of my big problem with the 150' law, is that it seems 1/2 of the people on the lake aren't aware of it, and 1/2 of the remaining bunch can't judge 150' with any degree of accuracy. I would much rather be alert and expect that a boat may come closer than 150' to me then expect people will obey this law.

If someone cuts across your bow or stern with only a dozen feet to spare, they are certainly reckless. If someone passes you 80 feet to the side because the area is congested, or simply because that is the most direct or logical path, you are not in imminent danger of death.

I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but that is just one that just seems like a waste of legislation.

I think it needs to be pointed out that 3 boats within 250' evenly spaced leaves about 83' between each boat. About half the required 150'.
I do agree that 150' is excessive, as long as each captain is fully aware of the other and their intentions.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

What would happen if every boater ignored the rules that annoyed them?

Right, because every boat within 150' is going to have a head on crash. I mean seriously, that has happened so many times on Lake Winni, I can't begin to count them all.

[onlywinni]

1. Hello everyone..just found this forum..

Re. The 150 Rule...I have been boating on the lake for about 10 years and it amazes me everyday how many people dont know or refuse to obey the 150 rule. Of course I have to admit judging 150 is not that easy..it is much farther than most people think. Also on the weekends it can be tough to cruise and be that far away all the time. However passing me within 50 feet because I am obeying the rule annoys the hell out of me. The MPs were out enforcing this rule hardcore this weekend I can say. Some guy in a 18 foot bayliner or something blows by us and 3 other boats in Alton Bay Sunday and the MP is sitting right in the channel-where you have to obey the rule or he has you. This guy broke the 150 on 4 boats and also the MP


Re. Speeding. Has anyone been given a ticket? I was out all weekend and only exceeded the limit once and there was no one around and I was in the broads. I wonder if they will let that stuff go and only look for people doing something stupid like in a crowded bay or channel?

Lastly...my wife and I saw this Ridiculous Streamlined Boat in Alton Bay on Sunday...It must have been 42+ it was all white with a sloped/curved rear and looked SICK...anyone see that before?

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by onlywinni

Re. Speeding. Has anyone been given a ticket? I was out all weekend and only exceeded the limit once and there was no one around and I was in the broads. I wonder if they will let that stuff go and only look for people doing something stupid like in a crowded bay or channel?

The speed limit law is arbitrary. Not absolute. It also has a reasonable and prudent clause. The MP can stop you at any speed that is not reasonable and prudent. If you were in the Broads and no one is around. I don't think the MP will have probably cause to ticket you if you are over the speed limit.

[onlywinni]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The speed limit law is arbitrary. Not absolute. It also has a reasonable and prudent clause. The MP can stop you at any speed that is not reasonable and prudent. If you were in the Broads and no one is around. I don't think the MP will have probably cause to ticket you if you are over the speed limit.

Thanks for the info....Do they even have radar guns?


ps...Love your Sig and could not agree more

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

What would happen if every boater ignored the rules that annoyed them?

Where did I say I ignored the rule? In fact, I specifically pointed out that I comply with the 150' law as best as possible (sometimes other boaters make it damn near impossible to do so).

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by chipj29

I think it needs to be pointed out that 3 boats within 250' evenly spaced leaves about 83' between each boat. About half the required 150'.

Draw it out on a piece of paper.

You would have one boat at "0" feet. Then the second boat at 125 feet, then the third boat at 250 feet.

Ignoring the beam of each boat, if someone splits the difference between you and another boat that is 250' away, you'd have about 125' between each boat.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Draw it out on a piece of paper.

You would have one boat at "0" feet. Then the second boat at 125 feet, then the third boat at 250 feet.

Ignoring the beam of each boat, if someone splits the difference between you and another boat that is 250' away, you'd have about 125' between each boat.

Unless the boat in the middle was 84' wide

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Draw it out on a piece of paper.

You would have one boat at "0" feet. Then the second boat at 125 feet, then the third boat at 250 feet.

Ignoring the beam of each boat, if someone splits the difference between you and another boat that is 250' away, you'd have about 125' between each boat.

Gotcha. I was picturiing a different scenario. It made sense to me at the time.

[cowisl]

Back on topic...just found out that over 60K was raised on Saturday for the Easter Seals! Nice job to everyone that participated!

[cowisl]

Originally Posted by onlywinni

1. Hello everyone..just found this forum..

Re. The 150 Rule...I have been boating on the lake for about 10 years and it amazes me everyday how many people dont know or refuse to obey the 150 rule. Of course I have to admit judging 150 is not that easy..it is much farther than most people think. Also on the weekends it can be tough to cruise and be that far away all the time. However passing me within 50 feet because I am obeying the rule annoys the hell out of me. The MPs were out enforcing this rule hardcore this weekend I can say. Some guy in a 18 foot bayliner or something blows by us and 3 other boats in Alton Bay Sunday and the MP is sitting right in the channel-where you have to obey the rule or he has you. This guy broke the 150 on 4 boats and also the MP


Re. Speeding. Has anyone been given a ticket? I was out all weekend and only exceeded the limit once and there was no one around and I was in the broads. I wonder if they will let that stuff go and only look for people doing something stupid like in a crowded bay or channel?

Lastly...my wife and I saw this Ridiculous Streamlined Boat in Alton Bay on Sunday...It must have been 42+ it was all white with a sloped/curved rear and looked SICK...anyone see that before?

New 52 Outerlimits SL

[Pricestavern]

Originally Posted by trfour

Getting to open water is a rush, although "Distant Thunder" was built to roam the oceans! I enjoyed the offshore boat races here on Lake Winnipesaukee while I lived here, and they lasted. I can't help but feel the rush that you feel by being able to enjoy your beautiful boat here as well.

I think that the new speed limit is very limiting, however the verdict will
be limiting as well.

Now to get back to where we left shore.

On only two engines, mind you and everyone. "Because of the deep V hull, the third outdrive was mounted lower on the transom, and when under full power the rooster tail was 75' tall behind this boat." Trust me.

"Boats Or What", ya got to love Em'

TRFOUR - if I'm not mistaken, in the pictures, you are putting in at the Nortport Power Station ramp on Long Island, NY. How long does it take to run to Connecticut?

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by cowisl

New 52 Outerlimits SL

I got an admittedly bad picture of it heading up Alton Bay on Sunday. Alas it's in the camera which is in the camp.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by cowisl

Back on topic...just found out that over 60K was raised on Saturday for the Easter Seals! Nice job to everyone that participated!

That is fantastic! Did everyone have fun? I really enjoyed the boats, (especially the fast ones) though I could not tell which ones were participating.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

What would happen if every boater ignored the rules that annoyed them?

You are confused, on purpose

People ignore, or are ignorant of the laws every single day of the week. The reason you're appearing so confused to yourself, is because you don't really care about what you state you are. You care about sailing, freedom to roam, all of that. You care not for safety, or enforcement, or any of that.

If you genuinely did care for all of that, you'd wonder about the missing link in all of these discussions. You know, the one you never bring up. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

If you picked up on the math quiz, and I'm quite sure you did, you'd know that the problem boater above (rude), was illegal by about 25' per boat. Not a huge sum, but technically in the wrong. But you commented on the principle of it. But I've yet to see you chime in on the other, far more important, and far more dangerous moments. Jet skiis between swimmers.

How about this one?

"The MPs were out enforcing this rule hardcore this weekend I can say. Some guy in a 18 foot bayliner or something blows by us and 3 other boats in Alton Bay Sunday and the MP is sitting right in the channel-where you have to obey the rule or he has you. This guy broke the 150 on 4 boats and also the MP
"


No comment APS?

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by cowisl

Back on topic...just found out that over 60K was raised on Saturday for the Easter Seals! Nice job to everyone that participated!

That's down a little from last year, but phenomenal given the weather and the economy this year. Any news on how much the kayakers contributed?

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

TRFOUR - if I'm not mistaken, in the pictures, you are putting in at the Nortport Power Station ramp on Long Island, NY. How long does it take to run to Connecticut?

Pricestavern, that would be the place, you have a good eye!.... We were under full power, all three engines, for under 15 minutes. I'd say that we made the trip in about a half hour. Distant Thunder was a big boat, although with 2700 HP it would truck along pretty good. 105 in a four foot chop.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...But I've yet to see you chime in on the other, far more important, and far more dangerous moments..."

You're new here, aren't you?

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...'The MPs were out enforcing this rule hardcore this weekend I can say. Some guy in a 18 foot bayliner or something blows by us and 3 other boats in Alton Bay Sunday and the MP is sitting right in the channel-where you have to obey the rule or he has you. This guy broke the 150 on 4 boats and also the MP'...No comment APS?"

I seldom "try" to miss an opportunity to comment. However, in this case, I can only offer that perhaps he was alerted for a specific boat to stop. (Or that his presence was more important as a warning to a specific boater).

MPs can get writer's cramp on weekends.

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

"...Where did I say I ignored the rule? In fact, I specifically pointed out that I comply with the 150' law as best as possible..."

And I "try" to avoid striking pedestrians.

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

"...(sometimes other boaters make it damn near impossible to do so)..."

Sorry other boaters inconvenience you.

Originally Posted by onlywinni

"...Of course I have to admit judging 150 is not that easy..it is much farther than most people think..."

Both observations are very true: For me, I think of 10 canoes, lined up end to end.

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...Any news on how much the kayakers contributed...?"

1) Is that a fair question for a "Poker RUN"?

2) How could one determine that, anyway? Anyone can contribute freely and without participating.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by onlywinni

Thanks for the info....Do they even have radar guns?

onlywinni -- it doesn't appear that anyone answered your question -

Yes, the MP most definately have radar guns. I was docked one afternoon in Center Harbor and "chatted it up" with a MP officer docked there early this season. He was very congenial and even showed me the radar unit he was issued. It is about the size of a mid sized pair of binoculars (6"w x 3"h x 8"d approx) it has a monocle sighting window and display's speed & range (distance) and is completely portable i.e no wires. The interesting aspect was range as he indicated to me that he uses it to tell if two boats are 150' apart by simply "targeting" each and taking the difference in range.

Therefore, if you see a MP boat just floating/ idling (as I have seen numerous times since) and the officer has what you think are Binoculars up to his face --- SMILE, your on radar!!

[onlywinni]

Originally Posted by Phantom

onlywinni -- it doesn't appear that anyone answered your question -

Yes, the MP most definately have radar guns. I was docked one afternoon in Center Harbor and "chatted it up" with a MP officer docked there early this season. He was very congenial and even showed me the radar unit he was issued. It is about the size of a mid sized pair of binoculars (6"w x 3"h x 8"d approx) it has a monocle sighting window and display's speed & range (distance) and is completely portable i.e no wires. The interesting aspect was range as he indicated to me that he uses it to tell if two boats are 150' apart by simply "targeting" each and taking the difference in range.

Therefore, if you see a MP boat just floating/ idling (as I have seen numerous times since) and the officer has what you think are Binoculars up to his face --- SMILE, your on radar!!

Thanks for the info.

Looks like I will have to mind my speed or at least get a radar detector for the boat

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Phantom

... The interesting aspect was range as he indicated to me that he uses it to tell if two boats are 150' apart by simply "targeting" each and taking the difference in range...

I hope he tries that one in court someday, two boats could a mile apart and still only be a few feet different in range.

[Skip]

Hi jrc,

You are correct, the LIDAR handheld unit being discussed here gives the operator relative opening or closing speed between the gun and the target be measured, and actual distance between the gun and the target at time of measurement. While you could theoretically point the gun at two separate targets on the water the gun will only give you the distance between itself and each target, it does not and cannot measure the distance apart of two separate targets.

The NHMP officer can indeed use the gun to cite you for a 150 foot offense, only if that offense occured between the the gun (NHMP unit) and you. It is not capable of doing the same for two opposing targets in the field.

Skip

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Any news on how much the kayakers contributed?

Got sour grapes???????

[VtSteve]

new here, that is, just observant.

Most had stopped debating facts or their honest thoughts with you many moons ago. Now that I'm not New here anymore, I will follow suit.

I think most on this board want to debate issues they think relevant. Silly issues like safety, common sense and decency. Hopefully, some of the more important discussions will get the attention of those empowered to focus attention on solutions. The only agenda for the vast majority here is to have safe fun, be considerate of others, that sort of thing.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

new here, that is, just observant.

Most had stopped debating facts or their honest thoughts with you many moons ago. Now that I'm not New here anymore, I will follow suit.

I think most on this board want to debate issues they think relevant. Silly issues like safety, common sense and decency. Hopefully, some of the more important discussions will get the attention of those empowered to focus attention on solutions. The only agenda for the vast majority here is to have safe fun, be considerate of others, that sort of thing.

Then why the petty, sourpuss comment about kayakers? Got self righteous indignancy?

[fatlazyless]

...file this one under the...."when do we get there" file....look'n thru my binoculars....there goes a 17' aluminum canoe, like an olde Grumman...with two on board....paddl'n down past south Bear and Dolly Island and either around or onto Mark Island....time will tell....somethin you basically never see....a canoe....hope that canoe knows about the 45-mph speed limit....paddle-paddle-paddle

[Tyler]

Just ignore the turtle VTsteve, he is just trolling for an argument. About all he is capable of doing, non value added as usual.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Phantom

onlywinni -- it doesn't appear that anyone answered your question -

Yes, the MP most definately have radar guns. I was docked one afternoon in Center Harbor and "chatted it up" with a MP officer docked there early this season. He was very congenial and even showed me the radar unit he was issued. It is about the size of a mid sized pair of binoculars (6"w x 3"h x 8"d approx) it has a monocle sighting window and display's speed & range (distance) and is completely portable i.e no wires. The interesting aspect was range as he indicated to me that he uses it to tell if two boats are 150' apart by simply "targeting" each and taking the difference in range.

Therefore, if you see a MP boat just floating/ idling (as I have seen numerous times since) and the officer has what you think are Binoculars up to his face --- SMILE, your on radar!!

As others have said that was a Lidar gun not a radar gun. Radar units don't measure distance, only speed (along the line of sight). As for measuring distance for a 150' violation, all 3 boats, the NHMP boat and the suspected violators would have to be in a line (or very nearly so) for that to have any accuracy.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

As others have said that was a Lidar gun not a radar gun. Radar units don't measure distance, only speed (along the line of sight). As for measuring distance for a 150' violation, all 3 boats, the NHMP boat and the suspected violators would have to be in a line (or very nearly so) for that to have any accuracy.

Don't shoot the "messenger" ....... I was only informing inwinni that there is indeed radar (or as I have been corrected LIDAR- all the same to the common folk) being used and relaying my little chat with a hospitiple MP officer

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Got sour grapes???????

Turtletroll- I took a look at your past posts and you have not contributed to one thread that was not speed limit related. Do you do anything on or around this great lake that you could comment on (other than your agenda) that may be helpful to others?

You are the definition of a forum troll.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Turtletroll- I took a look at your past posts and you have not contributed to one thread that was not speed limit related. Do you do anything on or around this great lake that you could comment on (other than your agenda) that may be helpful to others?

You are the definition of a forum troll.

There is no "Thanks" button on this thread so "Thanks" VitaBene. I have noticed a sharp decline in posts from certain members of this forum. They know who they are!!! It leads one to really put 2 and 2 together and realize that none of those individuals ever really cared about this forum/lake/whatever. All along this forum was just a means to an agenda. Turtle Boy you're not even the worst offender but you have to understand your posts carry little weight as you only surface from the depths to snipe at anti-SL posts or what you deem to be anti-SL sentiments. If you offered up anything other than conjecture maybe you'd be a more welcome addition to the forum. As for now you are merely a mosquito.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Turtletroll- I took a look at your past posts and you have not contributed to one thread that was not speed limit related. Do you do anything on or around this great lake that you could comment on (other than your agenda) that may be helpful to others?

You are the definition of a forum troll.

Hmmm...seems to me there is a pattern whereby forum members not embracing the performance boat mentality and culture which dominates this forum are hounded and otherwise called trolls. This culture and mentality and some of its seldom questioned tenets, some of which are a occasionally more than a little far-fetched, needs to be examined on a regular basis. These issues are a predominant concern for many of those who partake in the Winnipesaukee experience...swimmers, sailers, kayakers, and those who enjoy the lake from the shore. Many of these folks don't necessarily want to take part in a discussion forum predominated by a performance boat crowd yet were very much involved in recent efforts to change the lake for the better.
The kayak comment was nasty and did not elevate the intellectual tone of this thread.

[NoRegrets]

This thread is "Performance Boats - Alive and Well!!!" so I do not understand the judgment or labeling "Troll" status so quickly. I really enjoy the obtuse bantering and if someone is moved to respond to a single issue - so be it! I am a "big" boat owner (larger than a kayak and next in line to be attacked) and also have a canoe that I use when conditions are appropriate in locations that suit me.

I enjoy seeing the performance boats and can appreciate the finesse and rush they get when all is working as designed.

Point is that the actions of a few have gotten us to the point of quick labeling based on opinion. Opinions are usually based on a "select" set of facts. These opinions become a legal weapon to limit rights or make stupid little laws. Frustration is created when these rights or privileges are manipulated by laws created by agendas that are not perceived to be open or honest.

Irrational arguments are thrown into the mix based on the level of frustration or goading by opposite opinions. I also enjoy this process and read everything so I do not miss the fun.

Summer finally started last weekend with the change in the weather, poker run, and water temps close to a swimable level.

This is truly a great forum and it is exciting that it is based on such a great location.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Skip

Hi jrc,

You are correct, the LIDAR handheld unit being discussed here gives the operator relative opening or closing speed between the gun and the target be measured, and actual distance between the gun and the target at time of measurement. While you could theoretically point the gun at two separate targets on the water the gun will only give you the distance between itself and each target, it does not and cannot measure the distance apart of two separate targets.

The NHMP officer can indeed use the gun to cite you for a 150 foot offense, only if that offense occured between the the gun (NHMP unit) and you. It is not capable of doing the same for two opposing targets in the field.

Skip

I'm no math major but I seem to remember a formula to find the length of the last side of a triangle if you know the 2 lengths of the triangle and the angle of the 2 known sides. If I am right, then the LIDAR could conceptually figure out the distance between the 2 boats that are being shot by the gun. Anyone know?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I'm no math major but I seem to remember a formula to find the length of the last side of a triangle if you know the 2 lengths of the triangle and the angle of the 2 known sides. If I am right, then the LIDAR could conceptually figure out the distance between the 2 boats that are being shot by the gun. Anyone know?

Theoretically? Yes

Realistically? No

The unit being used to measure relative speed/distance is a portable handheld device. The crucial element necessary in the formula you offered, to be admissable in evidence in court, would require an extremely accurate way to measure the precise angle between the two vesssels being read in order to interpret their correct separation. Since this particular LIDAR unit has no way of determinig that angle the formua would have to rely on the best guess of the officer, hardly admissable in court.

[Excalibur]

How do laser (LIDAR) detectors work?
Laser Beam

Laser speed detection is actually LIDAR (Light Detection and Ranging). LIDAR guns project a beam of invisible infrared light. The signal is a series of very short infrared light energy pulses, which move, in a straight line, reflecting off your car and returning to the gun. LIDAR uses these light pulses to measure the distance to a vehicle. Speed is then calculated by measuring how quickly these pulses are reflected given the known speed of light.

LIDAR (or laser) is a newer technology and is not as widespread as conventional radar, therefore, you may not encounter laser on a daily basis. And unlike radar detection, laser detection is not prone to false alarms. Because LIDAR transmits a much narrower beam than does radar, it is much more accurate in its ability to distinguish between targets and is also more difficult to detect. AS A RESULT, EVEN THE BRIEFEST LASER ALERT SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

There are limitations to LIDAR equipment. LIDAR is much more sensitive to weather conditions than RADAR, and a LIDAR gun's range will be decreased by anything affecting visibility such as rain, fog, or smoke. A LIDAR gun cannot operate through glass and it must be stationary in order to get an accurate reading. Because LIDAR must have a clear line of sight and is subject to some cosine error (an inaccuracy, which increases as the angle between the gun and the vehicle, increases) police typically use LIDAR equipment parallel to the road or from an overpass. LIDAR can be used day or night.

[jrc]

As Pineneedles and Skip said measuring distance between boats with radar or lidar is possible. But a MP can't just invent a technique and have it stand up in court. It has to accurate and repeatable.

Even a cheap marine radar unit will show distance between boats. So if the MP really wanted to, they could probably find a calbrated radar unit and use that. But of course just being less than a 150' away is not a violation. You also need to be going faster than headway speed.

Sounds like a good product to build, I wonder how many I could sell...

[VtSteve]

and I do apologize for the tone of the Kayak comment. (sure brought some people out of dark places) It was meant to be something that just didn't make it to fruition. but I should know better, and will choose my words more carefully in the future.

As for someone thinking this forum is inundated with Performance Boaters? I certainly don't own one, although I have kicked the tires (hulls) of some in the past. I don't think many do on this entire forum, perhaps a dozen or more? At any rate, most of them seem as nice as everyone else here.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Hmmm...seems to me there is a pattern whereby forum members not embracing the performance boat mentality and culture which dominates this forum are hounded and otherwise called trolls. This culture and mentality and some of its seldom questioned tenets, some of which are a occasionally more than a little far-fetched, needs to be examined on a regular basis. These issues are a predominant concern for many of those who partake in the Winnipesaukee experience...swimmers, sailers, kayakers, and those who enjoy the lake from the shore. Many of these folks don't necessarily want to take part in a discussion forum predominated by a performance boat crowd yet were very much involved in recent efforts to change the lake for the better.
The kayak comment was nasty and did not elevate the intellectual tone of this thread.

The title of this thread is "Performance Boats-Alive and well!"
Just sayin'.......

Maybe you could start a thread titled "Kayaks-Alive and Paddling!" ?

[Turtle Boy]

and thank you Vt. Steve ...apology accepted and appreciated (really).
Appreciate as well the input from No Regrets and others today and some of the others whose encouraging PM's in the past pointed out the select few minority of posters who tend to intimidate/dominate this forum and who perhaps feel entitled to do the same on the lake. People have differences of opinion on just about everything and if they are offended about having to defend them on the boating forum then maybe they need to move over to the weather forum and start a thread on cumulous clouds.
The name calling/intimidation seen by 2 posters today seems to only dumb down the intellectual tone referred to earlier. I too feel that even if the forum is predominantly populated by (fast) powerboaters, most on this forum are in fact congenial and open minded (though I do recall a discussion many moons ago from a Cow Isl. resident whom we heard from today who seemed unable/unwilling to grasp even the most basic tenets of statistical sampling,, which I think was at the least scary given his status as a person who teaches kids in MA).
Anyway...hoping to get Turtle Grandchild (TG) out tubing/boating this weekend...Sunday looks to be the best day right now.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Hmmm...seems to me there is a pattern whereby forum members not embracing the performance boat mentality and culture which dominates this forum are hounded and otherwise called trolls. This culture and mentality and some of its seldom questioned tenets, some of which are a occasionally more than a little far-fetched, needs to be examined on a regular basis. These issues are a predominant concern for many of those who partake in the Winnipesaukee experience...swimmers, sailers, kayakers, and those who enjoy the lake from the shore. Many of these folks don't necessarily want to take part in a discussion forum predominated by a performance boat crowd yet were very much involved in recent efforts to change the lake for the better.
The kayak comment was nasty and did not elevate the intellectual tone of this thread.

My point was that there are certain members of the forum (and I could care less if they are anti or pro whatever) who only come here to push their agendas. Turtle is one of them. I would not use the term for this poster if he had responded to one other type of thread (had a good meal somewhere, good contractor, whatever).

Forums are about sharing information and experiences not just pushing agendas. I stand by my comment.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I'm no math major but I seem to remember a formula to find the length of the last side of a triangle if you know the 2 lengths of the triangle and the angle of the 2 known sides. If I am right, then the LIDAR could conceptually figure out the distance between the 2 boats that are being shot by the gun. Anyone know?

Well that is not cool, I just did out a nice formula calculation to show the angle between the two boats with the distance between them and the mp, but when I pressed post "POOF" gone. So anyway here it is again, slightly shortened out of frustration.

boat a 150 feet

boat b 250 feet

150/250=0.6

sin-1 (0.6)= 36.87 This is the angle between the two boats from the MP's point of view.

tan(36.87)=0.75
0.75 x 150 = 112.5 feet apart

This only works if the MP can prove a right triangle existed, not likely. By the time the MP referenced the trig chart or punched everything into the calculator the two boats in question would be far enough away that a chase may not be practical. They better show their work in court if they want credit.

There are other formulas for determining the open legs of isosceles, acute and obtuse triangles but we will keep todays lesson simple.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

My point was that there are certain members of the forum (and I could care less if they are anti or pro whatever) who only come here to push their agendas. Turtle is one of them. I would not use the term for this poster if he had responded to one other type of thread (had a good meal somewhere, good contractor, whatever).

Forums are about sharing information and experiences not just pushing agendas. I stand by my comment.

You might recall that this argument erupted after a comment about kayakers for which the poster has now apologized. That being said, you might have called that poster a troll or having an agenda but that would have conflicted with your agenda. As was alluded to earlier in the day, people who disagree with the mentality and culture of this forum are often badgered as such.
No justification for my choice of which forums I frequent is necessary...many of our posters are very partial to certain topics and I see yours seems to be centered around food. My wife and I started to follow the boating forum a couple of years ago to see how the topic which shall not be discussed was shaping up. We were amazed at some of the outrageous arguments, bromides, and other silly comments put forth by some of more dominating/intimidating members of the forum (no one has yet beaten the comment "If the old man of the mountain were still standing, he'd be shedding a tear right now"...we were on the floor laughing at that one). In any case, we have followed/contributed to efforts to shape the future of the lake, both in the recent and more distant past. As far as other topics like eating (we tend to eat at home with family because the view can't be beat and we kind of got out of the habit, what with college tuitions and the like which made demands on our income) and home maintenance (we do most of that ourselves), these are things we tend to discuss with friends and family. By the way, on the topic of postings, we are amazed at the number/frequency of some of the posters...makes us wonder what time is left for anything else...what is it, 425 in 2 years for you? Glad you still seem to be finding time to go out and eat.
Well, sorry to have had to take on the negative tone of your 2 posts today...tomorrow is another day and maybe we'll all wake up in a better mood. Bon appetit, TB

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

You might recall that this argument erupted after a comment about kayakers for which the poster has now apologized. That being said, you might have called that poster a troll or having an agenda but that would have conflicted with your agenda. As was alluded to earlier in the day, people who disagree with the mentality and culture of this forum are often badgered as such.
No justification for my choice of which forums I frequent is necessary...many of our posters are very partial to certain topics and I see yours seems to be centered around food. My wife and I started to follow the boating forum a couple of years ago to see how the topic which shall not be discussed was shaping up. We were amazed at some of the outrageous arguments, bromides, and other silly comments put forth by some of more dominating/intimidating members of the forum (no one has yet beaten the comment "If the old man of the mountain were still standing, he'd be shedding a tear right now"...we were on the floor laughing at that one). In any case, we have followed/contributed to efforts to shape the future of the lake, both in the recent and more distant past. As far as other topics like eating (we tend to eat at home with family because the view can't be beat and we kind of got out of the habit, what with college tuitions and the like which made demands on our income) and home maintenance (we do most of that ourselves), these are things we tend to discuss with friends and family. By the way, on the topic of postings, we are amazed at the number/frequency of some of the posters...makes us wonder what time is left for anything else...what is it, 425 in 2 years for you? Glad you still seem to be finding time to go out and eat.
Well, sorry to have had to take on the negative tone of your 2 posts today...tomorrow is another day and maybe we'll all wake up in a better mood. Bon appetit, TB

The doors have very long and very been closed here on anything other than "Perfomance Boats-Alive And Well". What is you're point?

Others will always follow, and get lost in the wake,....??

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...The only agenda for the vast majority here is to have safe fun, be considerate of others, that sort of thing...Most had stopped debating facts or their honest thoughts with you many moons ago...I will follow suit..."

Not commenting is certainly up to you; however, my own thoughts were conveyed in response to this:

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"No comment APS?"

Moving on...

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...You care about sailing, freedom to roam, all of that..."

____________

Well, yes... ......

.
.
.

Waitaminnit!

An agenda of "safe fun" that includes defeating radar?

Several U.S. states—but especially Canada—are very serious about radar detectors:

"...They will be confiscated and destroyed on the spot if you are caught using
one..."

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Well that is not cool, I just did out a nice formula calculation to show the angle between the two boats with the distance between them and the mp, but when I pressed post "POOF" gone. So anyway here it is again, slightly shortened out of frustration.

boat a 150 feet

boat b 250 feet

150/250=0.6

sin-1 (0.6)= 36.87 This is the angle between the two boats from the MP's point of view.

tan(36.87)=0.75
0.75 x 150 = 112.5 feet apart

This only works if the MP can prove a right triangle existed, not likely. By the time the MP referenced the trig chart or punched everything into the calculator the two boats in question would be far enough away that a chase may not be practical. They better show their work in court if they want credit.

There are other formulas for determining the open legs of isosceles, acute and obtuse triangles but we will keep todays lesson simple.

Thanks for confirming, mathmatically, what Skip said. I forgot about the right angle thing and you are right. I would be willing to bet though that some MP may try this tactic and now we are all forewarned. It is an interesting question though, how WOULD an MP be able to prove that you are 150' from anything? No land markers are available, I wonder if anyone ever went to court and questioned a MP's judgement of distance without points of reference? Sorry for being off topic but I don't feel like being just a statistic for soemone else's poor distance or for that matter speed estimation. Just like land radar I am sure all the calibrations must be done on the LIDAR or whatever before a conviction could be made. Question Authority!

Just to be on topic. I don't own one, but I like performance boats.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

My point was that there are certain members of the forum (and I could care less if they are anti or pro whatever) who only come here to push their agendas. Turtle is one of them. I would not use the term for this poster if he had responded to one other type of thread (had a good meal somewhere, good contractor, whatever).

Forums are about sharing information and experiences not just pushing agendas. I stand by my comment.

As do I even more so than ever. It has become ludicrous and I truly believe this poster should be on monitor status. Not once has this individual offered anything on any other forum of value??? Why?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

You might recall that this argument erupted after a comment about kayakers for which the poster has now apologized. That being said, you might have called that poster a troll or having an agenda but that would have conflicted with your agenda. As was alluded to earlier in the day, people who disagree with the mentality and culture of this forum are often badgered as such.
No justification for my choice of which forums I frequent is necessary...many of our posters are very partial to certain topics and I see yours seems to be centered around food. My wife and I started to follow the boating forum a couple of years ago to see how the topic which shall not be discussed was shaping up. We were amazed at some of the outrageous arguments, bromides, and other silly comments put forth by some of more dominating/intimidating members of the forum (no one has yet beaten the comment "If the old man of the mountain were still standing, he'd be shedding a tear right now"...we were on the floor laughing at that one). In any case, we have followed/contributed to efforts to shape the future of the lake, both in the recent and more distant past. As far as other topics like eating (we tend to eat at home with family because the view can't be beat and we kind of got out of the habit, what with college tuitions and the like which made demands on our income) and home maintenance (we do most of that ourselves), these are things we tend to discuss with friends and family. By the way, on the topic of postings, we are amazed at the number/frequency of some of the posters...makes us wonder what time is left for anything else...what is it, 425 in 2 years for you? Glad you still seem to be finding time to go out and eat.
Well, sorry to have had to take on the negative tone of your 2 posts today...tomorrow is another day and maybe we'll all wake up in a better mood. Bon appetit, TB

Let's back up- A) I have no agenda on performance boats and speed as my "fleet" consists of an 86 Chris Bow Rider that can almost hit 44, a 16' Old Town Canoe and a Laser sailboat. My main issue with the speed limit is that enforcing the existing rules and laws, particularly the 150' rule, would make the lake a safer place than a speed limit B) The difference, as I see it, between you and the supporters of performance boats are that they are generally not posting negative comments about Kayakers on Kayak related threads, you on the other hand seem to only post against performance boats on performance related threads. It is just my opinion, you can choose to ignore me from this point forward but the "got sour grapes" reply got to me.

The bottom line is we all want the same thing- to be able to enjoy the lake without infringing upon others. And I have been infringed upon by everytype of watercraft on the lake at one point or another. Like you, I have seen boneheads captaining every type of craft.

FYI, I have worked hard and been fortunate enough to be employed in a manner which allows me a great deal of flexibility. I start between 0330 and 0400 everyday and usually wrap up by 1730 or so, but on my breaks from the insanity of my job, I follow this forum. This lake and state are very near to my heart which is why I contribute here. If you want to compare schedules sometime, PM me- I go like a madman so I can enjoy the lake with my family and friends, eating out is part of that.

None of us have a time machine and we can't go back to the 50's- I know when and where the lake will be crazy and on those days we avoid it when possible.

Enough said, I'm going to the lake.

[VtSteve]

Nothing "erupted" on this board, YMMV.

The run for charity was brought up, as the dollars raised. My facetious, or snide comment, could have been worded better I guess. Better still, I should have left it out altogether, and just focused on the positive aspects of the run and the ensuing monetary gifts. Most here are mature enough to understand it, some aren't.

I'll bet you and yours (TB), are not rolling on the floor laughing when pureplay facts are brought up that you can't respond to. There are many responsible organizations around the country that have devoted considerable time and resources to promote safer boating, more interaction with various law enforcement agencies, state and federal legislators and so on. Many good souls on this board alone provide positive reinforcement that the good guys outnumber the bad by a wide margin.

Many of us come from a wide range of on water lifestyles, a small few have performance boats, there are bowriders, fishing boats, old classics, cuddy cabins, cruiser, people that canoe, kayak, and some that do it all. The VAST majority (probably almost all), are against

1) drunks on the water
2) reckless and dangerous boating behavior
3) rude and obnoxious boaters that may well fall into the first two categories.


Within that group, there is pretty wide agreement amongst us that the problem boaters are fairly easy to spot, need to be focused on, and that they will continue to exhibit their bad behavior until they are stopped. Pretty basic stuff.

I feel that most of us are pretty responsible, fair in pointing out problems, and would mostly like to enjoy ourselves and have a good time. I don't care if someone is in a 40' high speed cat or a 14 foot aluminum boat. If they are endangering people, I want them stopped. I don't need a rangefinder to tell the difference between 150' and 10 feet, nor do I care much if someone is safely boating and is only 117.27896 feet from me.

TB, so you share any of the above with us? And I'm sorry to be speaking for so many people, feel free to add to my small list, or even disagree with the context of what I'm saying. But I feel I've spoken my peace.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

As do I even more so than ever. It has become ludicrous and I truly believe this poster should be on monitor status.

Come on Hazelnut, get real. You sound like the little kid who goes crying to mommy because his sibling said "something mean" to him. Don has repeatedly shown more wisdom than you give him credit for in this regard. One thing that stands out clearly to all is that since Don closed the forum to SL discussions, many of the performance boaters with agendas (your word) of their own keep trying to slip in under the radar with such topics as Speed Limits/Bad for the Economy, There Ought to be a Law, and Performance Boats, Alive and Well. Some have used these threads to taunt and ridicule those with an agenda (again your word) different from theirs or to boast about how they managed to break the law without getting caught. The nasty comment about how much the kayakers contributed to the Easter Seals is just the tip of the iceberg. Many joined in on the forum in order to follow the SL debate during its peak last year and to follow boating news in general. Don closed the SL debate last year, yet some of you can't seem to help yourselves from adding your little tweak or taunt. Then when somebody counters said tweak or taunt, some crybaby yells "troll" or the omnipresent smokescreen "agenda". Name calling is easy and names like Turtletroll or Twaddle Boy are not likely to cause me to go out and slit my wrists, no more so than if I called you Hazelcrybaby or someone else Eatabene. As pointed out earlier, I suspect there is a corrolation between those who might want to dominate/intimidate on this forum and those who might wish to do it on the lake. I sense this when somebody makes a nasty or petty comment on one of the "under the radar" threads, taunts someone to defend or reply, then yells "troll" or "agenda". And speaking of the poor worn out and tiresome word " agenda", every one of the 5 billion+ people walking on earth has an agenda. I have an agenda, you have an agenda, WINNFABS has an agenda, and the now disgraced NHRBA had an agenda. If Don were to monitor/censor something on this forum, I would vote for the word agenda. I wish, in fact, that Don would stop all of these under the radar threads like he did with the SL/Bad for the Economy one. Some of us want to still follow boating on the lake without the now customary below the belt dings already described. This might well allow us to follow boating issues without crybaby responses like " he only posts on these threads...wah, wah, wah". I've said in the past that posting on this forum is like asking 3 foxes and a chicken to vote on what they would like to have for dinner. The outcome is always predictable and never in doubt. I can handle that. And I can take solace in that it seems like civility and tranquility are now more apparent on Winni than in years earlier, for whatever reason. In that regard, some of the things occuring on this forum are not a reflection of the reality on the lake.

[VtSteve]

to those on this forum that share the love of the water, and hope it will be available to all for many generations to come. I've had the privilege of growing up on the shores of Winni as a kid, and many weekends after that as an adult. I was fortunate enough to have a dad that instilled both discipline and respect, and beyond having a wondrous childhood on the lake, certainly didn't spoil us with riches.

Bad and good economies will come and go, and the boating industry is probably paying as much or more a price as any industry during this year. No question boat traffic on lakes and other waterways is down nationwide. Last year, it was sky high gas prices, this year it's cost of living, layoffs, and the weather. Speaking of the weather, I've glanced and looked at hardtop boats with windshield wipers and heaters this year Maybe I'm getting old, or maybe I just need to not get as wet. At any rate, we still persevere on the water regardless.

Not everyone on the waterways have a lifelong upbringing on the water and around boats. The past decade or so has brought people from all walks of life to the boating world. As with any activity, be it golfing, sailing, hiking, many don't share the same degree of responsibility and civility as many of us would like. Positive influences exist, in the form of sailing clubs, powerboating clubs, and all sorts of community centers and yacht clubs. Within these groups resides the positive attitudes that can and do rub off on their members, and subsequent generations.

I've met so many thoughtful and genuinely nice people both on the water and in other endeavors such as golf. I've also witnessed some pretty rude and dangerous behavior out on the water. Much of it is attitude, which as anyone that drives a car can attest, is very hard to change. Peer pressure is a powerful force, a more appropriate upbringing is certainly better. All we can do is just try to have positive influences on everyone, and at the very least, teach our kids to be exactly what we'd like everyone to be. Heck, I'd like to instill some common sense and decency in some of our youngest law enforcement people. So it's not an isolated problem.

Most people understand these issues, which are certainly not specific to the boating world. It would be helpful to have MP folks chime in on the real state of the problems, as spoken by boaters themselves. I know many such conversations have occurred, and many would be surprised at what the MP really sees, not to mention the hierarchy that they live under.

At any rate, I'm delighted to have a body of water that (conditions permitting), allows me complete and unfettered access. No congestion, not many problems, and less headaches. I think the weather has gotten to me this year, and I've allowed negative people to influence my responses. I refuse to do so again. Life's to short to debate topics with such obvious results. In that light, it's outside time

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

and the now disgraced NHRBA had an agenda.

Why, exactly, is NHRBA disgraced? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Come on Hazelnut, get real. You sound like the little kid who goes crying to mommy because his sibling said "something mean" to him. Don has repeatedly shown more wisdom than you give him credit for in this regard. One thing that stands out clearly to all is that since Don closed the forum to SL discussions, many of the performance boaters with agendas (your word) of their own keep trying to slip in under the radar with such topics as Speed Limits/Bad for the Economy, There Ought to be a Law, and Performance Boats, Alive and Well. Some have used these threads to taunt and ridicule those with an agenda (again your word) different from theirs or to boast about how they managed to break the law without getting caught. The nasty comment about how much the kayakers contributed to the Easter Seals is just the tip of the iceberg. Many joined in on the forum in order to follow the SL debate during its peak last year and to follow boating news in general. Don closed the SL debate last year, yet some of you can't seem to help yourselves from adding your little tweak or taunt. Then when somebody counters said tweak or taunt, some crybaby yells "troll" or the omnipresent smokescreen "agenda". Name calling is easy and names like Turtletroll or Twaddle Boy are not likely to cause me to go out and slit my wrists, no more so than if I called you Hazelcrybaby or someone else Eatabene. As pointed out earlier, I suspect there is a corrolation between those who might want to dominate/intimidate on this forum and those who might wish to do it on the lake. I sense this when somebody makes a nasty or petty comment on one of the "under the radar" threads, taunts someone to defend or reply, then yells "troll" or "agenda". And speaking of the poor worn out and tiresome word " agenda", every one of the 5 billion+ people walking on earth has an agenda. I have an agenda, you have an agenda, WINNFABS has an agenda, and the now disgraced NHRBA had an agenda. If Don were to monitor/censor something on this forum, I would vote for the word agenda. I wish, in fact, that Don would stop all of these under the radar threads like he did with the SL/Bad for the Economy one. Some of us want to still follow boating on the lake without the now customary below the belt dings already described. This might well allow us to follow boating issues without crybaby responses like " he only posts on these threads...wah, wah, wah". I've said in the past that posting on this forum is like asking 3 foxes and a chicken to vote on what they would like to have for dinner. The outcome is always predictable and never in doubt. I can handle that. And I can take solace in that it seems like civility and tranquility are now more apparent on Winni than in years earlier, for whatever reason. In that regard, some of the things occuring on this forum are not a reflection of the reality on the lake.

YAWN!

Anyone have any "Deepwoods Off" Actually I think "SKin So Soft" would actually work here with this one!

Gimme a "T" Gimme an "R" Gimme an "O" Gimme an "L" Gimme another "L" what does it spell?

[VtSteve]

I have Deep Woods Off Sportsman, with a Deet concentration of 98.11%.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

My point was that there are certain members of the forum (and I could care less if they are anti or pro whatever) who only come here to push their agendas. Turtle is one of them. I would not use the term for this poster if he had responded to one other type of thread (had a good meal somewhere, good contractor, whatever).

Forums are about sharing information and experiences not just pushing agendas. I stand by my comment.

Boy...you and that Hazelnut are ruthless. Having followed this forum for a few years, seems as though anyone with opinions on the other side of the SL debate will always end up being called a troll, IMHO. And BTW, having read many of your restaurant reviews, it does indeed seem as though you have eaten a rather wide swath across central New Hampshire. Seems too bad that you're so judgemental of others. Maybe you should take some of your own advice about posting on various topics on the forum:Perhaps you could offer some reviews on gyms, personal trainers, diet centers, or cardiac surgeons. (VitaBene...red and white Chris Craft- always flying the Dinner Being Served banner)

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Boy...you and that Hazelnut are ruthless. Having followed this forum for a few years, seems as though anyone with opinions on the other side of the SL debate will always end up being called a troll, IMHO. And BTW, having read many of your restaurant reviews, it does indeed seem as though you have eaten a rather wide swath across central New Hampshire. Seems too bad that you're so judgemental of others. Maybe you should take some of your own advice about posting on various topics on the forum:Perhaps you could offer some reviews on gyms, personal trainers, diet centers, or cardiac surgeons. (VitaBene...red and white Chris Craft- always flying the Dinner Being Served banner)

11 count em 11 posts and THIS is one of them. WOW!


Vita lets finally meet up and eat our way across the Northern half of the state.

At least this post made me laugh that's contributing SOMEthing. ha ha ha ha ha ha

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Boy...you and that Hazelnut are ruthless. Having followed this forum for a few years, seems as though anyone with opinions on the other side of the SL debate will always end up being called a troll, IMHO. And BTW, having read many of your restaurant reviews, it does indeed seem as though you have eaten a rather wide swath across central New Hampshire. Seems too bad that you're so judgemental of others. Maybe you should take some of your own advice about posting on various topics on the forum:Perhaps you could offer some reviews on gyms, personal trainers, diet centers, or cardiac surgeons. (VitaBene...red and white Chris Craft- always flying the Dinner Being Served banner)

Good point...I met Hazelnut this past Tuesday, and Christ, the guys 5' 2", 425 lbs!
I actually had to help him out of his boat, onto his three wheel cart (he is too chunky to walk) to drive across the street to the 19 Mile Store for 16 pieces of fried chicken.
Very sad.

[Irrigation Guy]

I think Don should check IP's and would likely find a bunch of members posting from the same IP again. Then the same folks would say AGAIN, they are sharing internet access with their neighbors on Bear Island!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by LocalRealtor

I think Don should check IP's and would likely find a bunch of members posting from the same IP again. Then the same folks would say AGAIN, they are sharing internet access with their neighbors on Bear Island!

And so then, what exactly would that accomplish?

[Irrigation Guy]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

And so then, what exactly would that accomplish?

Would further establish that some folks are using multiple screen names(maybe new ones) as has been an issue in the past. Seems the most recent poster is only interested in a certain issue. Big suprise there.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Good point...I met Hazelnut this past Tuesday, and Christ, the guys 5' 2", 425 lbs!
I actually had to help him out of his boat, onto his three wheel cart (he is too chunky to walk) to drive across the street to the 19 Mile Store for 16 pieces of fried chicken.
Very sad.

Phew thank god you were there sa. I almost capsized my boat getting out.

Back on topic. This weekend it seemed to me that there were MANY boats out. Maybe the most I've seen all summer. Performance boats were out and about. Not sure if I've noticed any difference in how they drove those boats. Several went through the area near my house at various speeds. I didn't notice if any were really going any faster than 45-55 MPH tops. Pretty typical behavior in comparison to the past several years.

Traffic in the Weirs was pretty robust. The channel was jammed on Sunday morning around 11:30am. I noticed that the beach wasn't that crowded though.

LocalRealtor, the though had crossed my mind.

[VtSteve]

The MP didn't expect much of a difference this year either, for what they described as "obvious reasons". But they were on top of the PWC hitting the rear end of a moored boat. Similar to another famous accident, only different.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Boy...you and that Hazelnut are ruthless. Having followed this forum for a few years, seems as though anyone with opinions on the other side of the SL debate will always end up being called a troll, IMHO. And BTW, having read many of your restaurant reviews, it does indeed seem as though you have eaten a rather wide swath across central New Hampshire. Seems too bad that you're so judgemental of others. Maybe you should take some of your own advice about posting on various topics on the forum:Perhaps you could offer some reviews on gyms, personal trainers, diet centers, or cardiac surgeons. (VitaBene...red and white Chris Craft- always flying the Dinner Being Served banner)

Sun and TB, you nailed it- I do love eating. Being 45, I have done it 10s of thousands of times and just haven't been able to quit. And until I do, I figure I will eat well, both at home and out.

I actually like my new nickname- Eatabene (thanks TB, I really like it!!). I hate multi-nickers but maybe I'll use that one for my food related posts.

Because of my love of food, and to counter my caloric intake, I exercise by hill walking (and ice walking in the winter), lift at the gym a fair amount (gotta maintain that lean muscle mass at my age), and lead a pretty active lifestyle. Thanks for the concerns over my health, that was so nice of you My cholesterol level is 158 so I haven't been to a cardiologist yet, but will let you and the forum know if I find a good one. I will admit that I am carrying an extra 5 or 10 lbs right now as I have been off my routine due the being in the middle of a RE transaction.

Sunset- PM me if you want to come exercise with me. Perhaps you can give me some pointers so I can melt those pounds off.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by LocalRealtor

I think Don should check IP's and would likely find a bunch of members posting from the same IP again. Then the same folks would say AGAIN, they are sharing internet access with their neighbors on Bear Island!...



Would further establish that some folks are using multiple screen names(maybe new ones) as has been an issue in the past. Seems the most recent poster is only interested in a certain issue. Big suprise there.

What do you mean "further establish" I am unaware that it has ever been established.

I don't think anyone involved in this threads controversy is from Bear Island. I guess you are just throwing mud with the hope some of it sticks. Well this time you are way off target.

[BroadHopper]

In this thread that is from Bear Island. Fortunately they are on the opposite side from where you are BI. They don't share your view(s).

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

In this thread that is from Bear Island. Fortunately they are on the opposite side from where you are BI. They don't share your view(s).

How do you know what my views are on this controversy?... You may be surprised.

In any event please, please don't put me on the same side as TB. I asked him to "shut up" about a year ago in the accident thread. Since then I have pretty much ignored him.



The question remains... Who are the Bear Islanders LR talking about?

[Irrigation Guy]

LOL.....sounds all to familiar with the controversy surrounding multiple screen names from the past is all.