Stimulus paving....

Lakesrider · 03-20-2009, 09:10 AM

Preface:
This thread is not directed to the short sighted folk that love deteriorated roads, and wish to limit the tourist traffic that our state is built on. For those of you in that category, there are many other threads on the site to read!

Yah! Looks like my nemisis road RT109 made the list of getting at least some paver shim done if the stimulus money gets approved. Maybe I'll actually get to ride my bike on that road now. It was just plain dangerous with those cracks and heaves. Maybe some of the Classic car tours will come back with a better road. I've noticed a lot of the car clubs have now excluded this drive from the their events calendars. Too bad, seeing as our side of the lake depends on tourists coming through. The Bike week tours were also impacted by the condition of this road, which is designated as a scenic byway in NH. Not sure why this never got approved for Federal funding under that.

http://www.byways.org/explore/byways...signation.html

Saw the article on the Governor saying that 760 roads, as opposed to only 250 getting some work done to them. Look at the NH DOT website and it show the proposed road improvements.

Looks like a long section of 93, Tilton up to around exit 23 will get over-layed as well.

http://www.nh.gov/dot/recovery/docum...al_3_11_09.pdf

Orion · 03-20-2009, 11:36 AM

Rt-109 needs a lot more than just paving. This needs to be redone with a proper bed and drainage. I'm betting it's just old-school asphalt over leveled dirt.

VitaBene · 03-20-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

Rt-109 needs a lot more than just paving. This needs to be redone with a proper bed and drainage. I'm betting it's just old-school asphalt over leveled dirt.

I think you are correct- 25B as well. Not fun in an F250 sometimes.

wifi · 03-20-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I think you are correct- 25B as well. Not fun in an F250 sometimes.

They rebuilt the top of the (25B) hill a few years back, tore it down to the dirt. Still has that gigantic bump at the top during the spring. Indian burial ground?

Lakesrider · 03-20-2009, 04:16 PM

In my letter to the Governor, I mentioned that the shim paving might help but that the road needed more than that alone. Maybe as part two of the money is doled out? As an NH byway it is eligible for Federal funding.

RI Swamp Yankee · 03-20-2009, 09:07 PM

Leave Rt 109 like it is but sell tickets .... a big attraction at many amusement parks is the Roller Coaster and 109 is one of the longest I have ever seen.

fatlazyless · 03-21-2009, 06:54 AM

As already mentioned elsewhere, the wow trail in Belmont-Laconia-Meredith seems to qualify for stimilus funding and it will be about nine miles x twelve feet' of asphalt paving, plus the underlying new landscape construction.

I have heard that pavement used in bicycle-walking trails utilizes a higher mix of recycled and shredded tires within the asphalt mix since it does not get heavy truck traffic and makes for a pave job with more elasticity. Sort of like a wood dance studio floor.

SAMIAM · 03-21-2009, 07:31 AM

Nine miles of chain link fence....I can hardly wait.

no-engine · 03-21-2009, 12:19 PM

Is it determined that there MUST be chain link fence?
If so, the legislatures and Gov office need to get a life.

A relative lives along the path in MA: Cambridge, Somerville, Arlington, and is real nice. I think there is fencing, but not sure what. Former rail road bed and quite wide in many sections especially near Davis Square Somerville, but is open where roads cross. Therefore not all fencing.

KonaChick · 03-21-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Nine miles of chain link fence....I can hardly wait.

It will look nice when the kids start spraypainting it too.

Irish mist · 03-21-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no-engine

Is it determined that there MUST be chain link fence?
If so, the legislatures and Gov office need to get a life.

A relative lives along the path in MA: Cambridge, Somerville, Arlington, and is real nice. I think there is fencing, but not sure what. Former rail road bed and quite wide in many sections especially near Davis Square Somerville, but is open where roads cross. Therefore not all fencing.

That's the Minuteman Trail. It's used by a lot of people, and in general has been a great addition to the area, but it's not without its issues. The main issue being crime, and police resources that need to be used to patrol the trail.
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fatlazyless · 03-22-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Nine miles of chain link fence....I can hardly wait.

If you will read the poem Mending Wall written by Derry NH native, Robert Frost, in 1914, you can visualize how "good fences make good neighbors."

The proposed safety fence to seperate the railroad tracks from the wow trail is only 5' high. Most abutting property slopes uphill from its' waterfront so it would overlook the fence. Every house lot will have a fence passage way to access their State of NH, leased waterfront area. For a way to improve the fence appearance abutters can grow rose vines up through the fence. Roses are low cost and grow very well on the sandy and sunny waterfront. Abutters can turn their little section of chain link fence into a five foot fence of roses that pretty's up the view, if they want to.

Just like the water in Lake Winnipesaukee belongs to all the people of NH, so does the railroad right-of-way. The abutter homeowner, in this situation, does not hold the right to an unobstructed waterfront view.

Plus, who knows, it may lead to a lower homeowner property value due to the nearby wow trail? On the other hand, maybe it will lead to a higher homeowner property value if the trail is considered a plus? The WOW Trail....well, before it was built, everyone was worried about all sorts of problems, but now that it has been in use for five years, everybody praises it........like wow?

no-engine · 03-22-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish mist

That's the Minuteman Trail. It's used by a lot of people, and in general has been a great addition to the area, but it's not without its issues. The main issue being crime, and police resources that need to be used to patrol the trail.

Minute Man Trail through suburbia, or trail in rural areas, there may be crime in both places. A trail in Lakes area is great for the area, to be used by residents and all visitors alike.

Lakesrider · 03-22-2009, 12:26 PM

So I guess my thread on the paving of Rt109 has benn "Chainlinked"?

M/V_Bear_II · 03-22-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

If you will read the poem Mending Wall written by Derry NH native, Robert Frost, in 1914, you can visualize how "good fences make good neighbors."

Actually, Frost's point is that fences do not make good neighbors. Repairing a stone wall between their properties gives him an annual chance to catch up with his neighbor, but therefore it is the "gaps" in the wall that make good neighbors.

He mocks his neighbor for steadfastly repeating his father's adage.

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilre...t-mending.html

No thoughts on Rt. 109, as it has been several years since I have been up on that side of the lake.

Moss Creek Media · 03-22-2009, 01:14 PM

140 from Alton could use a redoing as well, that road is painful.

Irish mist · 03-22-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no-engine

Minute Man Trail through suburbia, or trail in rural areas, there may be crime in both places. A trail in Lakes area is great for the area, to be used by residents and all visitors alike.

Let us hope you are right. I don't expect it to be nick-named "the crime trail" like the Minuteman is in the Boston area, but to expect it to be trouble free is not possible any longer in this day and age anywhere.
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Pineedles · 03-22-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M/V_Bear_II

Actually, Frost's point is that fences do not make good neighbors. Repairing a stone wall between their properties gives him an annual chance to catch up with his neighbor, but therefore it is the "gaps" in the wall that make good neighbors.

He mocks his neighbor for steadfastly repeating his father's adage.

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilre...t-mending.html

No thoughts on Rt. 109, as it has been several years since I have been up on that side of the lake.

True enough MV Bear II. I however prefer to listen to Robert Frost's poems. Too many great poems are lost to the whole, since folks read rather than listen to them. Try this site, and listen to the words of a wonderful man.

http://robertfrostoutloud.com/MendingWall.html

Argie's Wife · 03-22-2009, 11:19 PM

This was taken in Dover and is on the WMUR site...

ApS · 03-23-2009, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

Rt-109 needs a lot more than just paving. This needs to be redone with a proper bed and drainage. I'm betting it's just old-school asphalt over leveled dirt.

I would add that drainage is a problem on all the roads north of Lake Winnipesaukee: The problem gets even worse as the elevation increases towards the Ossipee Mountains.

Until repaired, frost heaves affect one's ride along Rt-109 every spring. On the other hand, it connects to Rt. 28 through South Wolfeboro, which has a solid concrete bed and is bumpy all year long!

As an armchair road engineer, I think a series of roadside mini-dams to slow the rate of runoff would go a long way to alleviating the problems of granite hills, asphalt and icy winters. (Not to mention washouts in summer).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

"...Preface:
This thread is not directed to the short sighted folk that love deteriorated roads, and wish to limit the tourist traffic that our state is built on...The Bike week tours were also impacted by the condition of this road, which is designated as a scenic byway in NH..."

It may be even more short sighted to accept Federal funds: According to Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH), the Stimulus Bill is not all sweetness and light.

Besides, in spite of occasional dustiness, there are friendly aspects to deteriorated local dirt roads.

1) They can be easily leveled after mud season—and relatively cheaply,
2) They're more easily repaired after washouts,
3) They keep the number of nosy tourists and noisy bikers down,
4) They keep the number of roadside basketball hoops down,
5) Nobody skateboards on them,
6) They slow most traffic down—making for a nice walking venue—meeting neighbors,
7) Encourages exercising your dog (and you),
8) No frost heaves.

Certainly, Robert Frost would approve.

Lakesrider · 03-23-2009, 06:46 AM

A dirt road, but funny non the less. I wonder if I could do that on 109? Probably get arrested for littering.

tis · 03-23-2009, 07:10 AM

That is a good idea, lakesrider! I think you would need a LOT more pans! There are probably not enough pans in Wolf, Tuft and Moult. to fill all the holes! And they probably WOULD arrest you!

fatnoah · 03-23-2009, 12:02 PM

I don't expect it to be nick-named "the crime trail" like the Minuteman is in the Boston area

Hmm...I live in the Boston area, and lived in Arlington, MA for many years about 2 blocks from the trail. I've never heard of it referred to as the "crime trail. In fact, the only reference to it as such reported by Google appears to be your post.

Irish mist · 03-23-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatnoah

I don't expect it to be nick-named "the crime trail" like the Minuteman is in the Boston area

Hmm...I live in the Boston area, and lived in Arlington, MA for many years about 2 blocks from the trail. I've never heard of it referred to as the "crime trail. In fact, the only reference to it as such reported by Google appears to be your post.

That was an Arlington police nick-name. I too have property near that trail. I'm sure you are aware of the fist-fights, stick-ups in East Arlington near the T-station ? Constant indecent exposures on the trail. I never said the trail was a terrible idea. I supported it in Boston, and I support it here, but it comes with issues.
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DJS-Laconia · 06-09-2009, 06:01 PM

Couple of questions that need answering.

-Who watches for the crime? Not all homes are occupied all week all seasons.
-Who does it get reported to?
-Is the police dept going to care what happens on the trail?
-Who will pick up the trash and debris? There is none now.. But will be. And you cant say volunteer's because you can't count on anyone to do free work in this economy.

-Who is going to pay the claim when someone gets hit but a train?- fence no fence.

Who is going to replace the fence when it gets cut up or destroyed by kids or angry homeowners that are forced to look at it?

The trail brings crime and undesirablesl and would need to be watched by police constantly. On the trail you speak about in Arlington and Lexington there have been cases of sexual misconduct on the path. The most extreme being a middle aged man, completely nude laying in leaves watching pretty girls jog by. Can you imagine what he was doing...

The money would be better spent toward the red flagged bridges and roadways that need replacement or will need replacementg in the near future.

As far as the state owned land being opened to the public you are very wrong. The land is owned by the RR and only people with a lease and a hefty insurance policy have the right to cross the track in front of thier abutting property only. Everyone else is trespassing.

twoplustwo · 06-11-2009, 08:24 AM

SB 203 AN ACT relative to liability protection for railroad operators operating alongside recreational trails, yada yada yada, read the specifics here:

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/legislat...09/SB0203.html

just passed. Your lawsuit issue is no longer relevant.

03-20-2009, 09:10 AM	#1
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	Stimulus paving.... Preface: This thread is not directed to the short sighted folk that love deteriorated roads, and wish to limit the tourist traffic that our state is built on. For those of you in that category, there are many other threads on the site to read! Yah! Looks like my nemisis road RT109 made the list of getting at least some paver shim done if the stimulus money gets approved. Maybe I'll actually get to ride my bike on that road now. It was just plain dangerous with those cracks and heaves. Maybe some of the Classic car tours will come back with a better road. I've noticed a lot of the car clubs have now excluded this drive from the their events calendars. Too bad, seeing as our side of the lake depends on tourists coming through. The Bike week tours were also impacted by the condition of this road, which is designated as a scenic byway in NH. Not sure why this never got approved for Federal funding under that. http://www.byways.org/explore/byways...signation.html Saw the article on the Governor saying that 760 roads, as opposed to only 250 getting some work done to them. Look at the NH DOT website and it show the proposed road improvements. Looks like a long section of 93, Tilton up to around exit 23 will get over-layed as well. http://www.nh.gov/dot/recovery/docum...al_3_11_09.pdf

03-20-2009, 11:36 AM	#2
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cow Island Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	needs more than paving Rt-109 needs a lot more than just paving. This needs to be redone with a proper bed and drainage. I'm betting it's just old-school asphalt over leveled dirt.

03-20-2009, 09:07 PM	#6
RI Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Kingstown RI Posts: 688 Thanks: 143 Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts	Leave Rt 109 like it is but sell tickets .... a big attraction at many amusement parks is the Roller Coaster and 109 is one of the longest I have ever seen. __________________ Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"

03-21-2009, 06:54 AM	#7
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,547 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 297 Thanked 958 Times in 699 Posts	As already mentioned elsewhere, the wow trail in Belmont-Laconia-Meredith seems to qualify for stimilus funding and it will be about nine miles x twelve feet' of asphalt paving, plus the underlying new landscape construction. I have heard that pavement used in bicycle-walking trails utilizes a higher mix of recycled and shredded tires within the asphalt mix since it does not get heavy truck traffic and makes for a pave job with more elasticity. Sort of like a wood dance studio floor. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

06-09-2009, 06:01 PM	#25
DJS-Laconia Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 15 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	It does bring crime to the area. Couple of questions that need answering. -Who watches for the crime? Not all homes are occupied all week all seasons. -Who does it get reported to? -Is the police dept going to care what happens on the trail? -Who will pick up the trash and debris? There is none now.. But will be. And you cant say volunteer's because you can't count on anyone to do free work in this economy. -Who is going to pay the claim when someone gets hit but a train?- fence no fence. Who is going to replace the fence when it gets cut up or destroyed by kids or angry homeowners that are forced to look at it? The trail brings crime and undesirablesl and would need to be watched by police constantly. On the trail you speak about in Arlington and Lexington there have been cases of sexual misconduct on the path. The most extreme being a middle aged man, completely nude laying in leaves watching pretty girls jog by. Can you imagine what he was doing... The money would be better spent toward the red flagged bridges and roadways that need replacement or will need replacementg in the near future. As far as the state owned land being opened to the public you are very wrong. The land is owned by the RR and only people with a lease and a hefty insurance policy have the right to cross the track in front of thier abutting property only. Everyone else is trespassing.

03-20-2009, 04:16 PM	#5
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	In my letter to the Governor, I mentioned that the shim paving might help but that the road needed more than that alone. Maybe as part two of the money is doled out? As an NH byway it is eligible for Federal funding.

03-21-2009, 07:31 AM	#8
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,848 Thanks: 328 Thanked 1,633 Times in 565 Posts	Nine miles of chain link fence....I can hardly wait.

03-21-2009, 12:19 PM	#9
no-engine Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West side Winnipesaukee, Lakes Region Posts: 516 Thanks: 20 Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts	Is it determined that there MUST be chain link fence? If so, the legislatures and Gov office need to get a life. A relative lives along the path in MA: Cambridge, Somerville, Arlington, and is real nice. I think there is fencing, but not sure what. Former rail road bed and quite wide in many sections especially near Davis Square Somerville, but is open where roads cross. Therefore not all fencing.

03-22-2009, 12:26 PM	#14
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	So I guess my thread on the paving of Rt109 has benn "Chainlinked"?

03-22-2009, 01:14 PM	#16
Moss Creek Media Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New Hampton Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	140 from Alton could use a redoing as well, that road is painful.

03-22-2009, 11:19 PM	#19
Argie's Wife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Alton Posts: 1,908 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 533 Thanked 579 Times in 260 Posts	This was taken in Dover and is on the WMUR site...

03-23-2009, 06:46 AM	#21
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	A dirt road, but funny non the less. I wonder if I could do that on 109? Probably get arrested for littering.

03-23-2009, 07:10 AM	#22
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,442 Thanks: 723 Thanked 1,389 Times in 963 Posts	That is a good idea, lakesrider! I think you would need a LOT more pans! There are probably not enough pans in Wolf, Tuft and Moult. to fill all the holes! And they probably WOULD arrest you!

03-23-2009, 12:02 PM	#23
fatnoah Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I don't expect it to be nick-named "the crime trail" like the Minuteman is in the Boston area Hmm...I live in the Boston area, and lived in Arlington, MA for many years about 2 blocks from the trail. I've never heard of it referred to as the "crime trail. In fact, the only reference to it as such reported by Google appears to be your post.

06-11-2009, 08:24 AM	#26
twoplustwo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 456 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 21 Posts	SB 203 eliminates one of your worries, DJS SB 203 AN ACT relative to liability protection for railroad operators operating alongside recreational trails, yada yada yada, read the specifics here: http://gencourt.state.nh.us/legislat...09/SB0203.html just passed. Your lawsuit issue is no longer relevant.