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09-29-2009, 03:16 AM | #101 |
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Letter to LDS, Speed is not the enemy
Do the Math's post #62 in this thread appeared in the Laconia Daily Sun today, Tuesday September 29, 2009. Thanks DtM. Here's a copy/paste.
From Laconia Daily Sun page 5, Laconia Daily Sun Tuesday September 29, 2009 Face it people, boat speed is not the enemy & never has been To the editor, Throughout my adult life I have had all kinds of boats, big, small, fast, slow, etc. I literally grew up “summering” on Lake Winnipesaukee; I am the third generation of my family to do so, and have watched it change quite a bit over my 40 years, changes that reflect not only improvements to the lake and it’s surrounding areas but some, admittedly, I don’t fully agree with. For example, I miss Anderson’s Bakery in Center Harbor, they had the best donuts! And as a kid, walking to Robbins General Store for candy or an ice cream out of the cooler. And most of all, EVERYONE waved at each other — what ever happened to the “original” wave when passing your fellow boater? Anyway, I digress. I honestly think the “most fun” boat I/ we had growing up was a 13-foot Whaler with a 40 hp 2S Merc on it. We bought it new from Browns, and once dialed-in correctly would run 42-44- mph on it’s best day, in perfect conditions. At WOT that boat felt like it was going 80-mph — you were 12-inches off the water and it was a blast! I scared a lot of friends that weren’t “boat people” in that thing — great boat! Now, fast-forward — jumping up to a 42-foot Outerlimits with 1,700 hp, at 100- mph — it feels like you are sitting in an easy-chair with a big fan blowing wind in your face. It’s all relative to the size and conditions at the time you are out. At 65-mph, that same boat feels like it’s “loafing” along, the engines are running smooth and easy and you barely feel the waves you are crossing, it is a very comfortable and controlled ride. As another WInnipesaukee Forum member has mentioned numerous times in previous posts, these boats are DESIGNED to perform VERY well and very controlled at the speeds that they achieve. Imagine doing 65-mph in a 13-foot Whaler — as much as I would love to try it, given an open body of water with no boat traffic and flat and calm conditions, I would never dream of doing it on Winni, ever! It’s funny how most speed Limit proponents seem to forget something very important — and I have said this over and over — guns don’t kill people, people kill people! We always read about “Captain Bonehead” on the forum — note, no one ever refers to the boat itself, it is always the operator! “This guy on a jet ski cut in front of me yesterday, what a jerk” or “I had this guy in a bowrider, with nine people on board nail it coming out of the channel, he was only 25-feet from me”. Now, in any case of negligence or “operator” error has it been the boats fault that what happened, happened!? Did “the boat” decide to go against the operator and turn itself in front of you, cutting you off and breaking the 150-foot rule!? Did “the boat” decide to slow to a speed that let up a huge wake and crash your boat against your dock — damaging both — while the operator yelled at it telling it not to? To quote Forrest Gump: “stupid is as stupid does”, and if you look at the last (and ONLY) two significant accidents to occur on the lake over the previous 10+ years, extenuating circumstances not withstanding, both point to operator error, period! (And at least one so far was proven to have taken place UNDER 30-mph!). Call it what you will, bad judgment, driver impaired, weather conditions, etc., at the end of the day, it is the operator that is responsible, always. I know plenty of people on this lake who own boats that will run fast, very fast, and not a SINGLE one of them has been involved in an incident of any kind that would be construed as negative. I have seen over the period that the speed limit has become an issue, an exponential number of “family boats”, cruisers and waverunners involved in the most unbelievably dumb, careless and unsafe incidents! The speed limite has had nothing to do with any perceived changes in the way the lake was this summer, chalk it up to the economy and sheer coincidence. Incidentally, I still saw more than my fair share of “captain boneheads” on the lake this summer and I was up less than all prior summers, oh, and NONE were driving a performance boat! None involved going really fast either, it was mostly the 150-foot rule and the right of way rule that were the culprit, and tubing/ skiing in the most foolish locations - traffic-laden, etc., and just not paying general attention. Face it people, speed is not the enemy here, and it never has been, but some people like to think that the performance boat crowd is — that our “Golden Pond” has become a playground for all they despise. Gone are the birch-bark canoes, replaced with loud and “unsafe” speed boats. How about gone are the responsible owner/ operators ACTING responsibly! You are responsible for your own actions; man-up and act like you are! There is plenty of water for all to enjoy, but we need to be responsible for your actions, on and off the water! I can assure you, I can promise you and prove to you that a 20-foot bowrider at 50-mph can be far more dangerous than a 38-foot performance boat at the same speed. Sure, there are times that I wish this lake was the lake I knew when I was a kid, less populated and developed, but at the same time, I love the lake today! My 4 1/2-year-old son also loves the lake, being out on the boat, visiting friends and playing in the water. You know, “he-said, she-said, he-did, she-did” is getting old and moving us no where fast! Let’s figure it out and make it work people, so future generations to come can enjoy it all too. name redacted Acton, Mass.
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09-29-2009, 10:13 AM | #102 |
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Past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun
If you want past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun, all you have to do is change the date of the address that you put in the address bar of you browser. Some people who post on forums will type in a different name for the address and then hyperlink it to the correct URL.
Example; http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2009/9/29L.pdf will take you to the 2009/9/29 issue of the paper. If you change the date in the address to 2008/9/29L it will take you to the 2008 issue. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2008/9/29L.pdf |
09-29-2009, 10:54 AM | #103 | |
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Welcome Sam
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09-29-2009, 11:43 AM | #104 | |
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Nope, not affiliated with any Newspaper. You can do the same thing to the Conway Daily Sun. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/29.pdf Now change the date to 2009/9/28. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/28.pdf Notice that the address is almost like the LDS. You can right click on any address and then click on properties to get the exact URL. Then you can copy that address to your browser address bar and go to that website. If someone types in something other than the exact URL, you can right click the name and go to properties to copy the address. |
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09-30-2009, 07:33 PM | #105 | |
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Enforce 150' rule and most 'speeding' problems will go away
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Twice within a period of half an hour a Captain Bonehead passed too close, on the first occasion almost swamping my boat. My father-in-law and I were on our way back to Smith Cove from Weirs Beach and as we were making our way (at headway speed) towards Governor's Island bridge, a boat passed between us and the shore at 'mush' speed. We were only 100' from the shoreline, so he was about 50-60' off the shore. His wake spilled over our transom and left almost a foot of water in the cockpit before it drained away into the bilge. (Thank goodness the bilge pump was able to get rid of it!) The second incident took place after we had pumped the bilge dry and and made the turn towards the bridge but before we reached the No Wake zone. There was another boat about 80' ahead of us and the second Captain Bonehead was also heading towards the bridge and decided to 'thread the needle' between us while on plane. Both were speeding but not in violation of the speed limit. They were speeding because they broke the 150' rule. I'll bet a wide majority of the so-called speeding incidents are really 150' rule violations. |
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09-30-2009, 07:54 PM | #106 |
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I don't agree
I think the real reason 'peace and harmony' have appeared has little to do with the speed limit. Boat traffic in general is down. Ask anyone at the marinas, the gas docks, and the boat ramps, or ask the Marine Patrol. For the second season in a row boat traffic is down. This year there have been a large number of unrented slips, something I've never seen before. Quite a few of my friends ended up trailering their boats rather than renting slips. They didn't go out onto the lake nearly as often as they have in the past.
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10-01-2009, 03:59 AM | #107 | |
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Actually the scrolling function can be setup to work with any Adobe file by changing how the default layout is setup. To change the default layout in Adobe Reader, open Adobe Reader and go to the tool bar and do the following: 1. Choose Edit > Preferences. 2. Under Categories, select Page Display. 3. Open the Page Layout menu and choose either Automatic, Single Page, Single Page Continuous, Two-Up, or Two-Up Continuous. (I prefer Single Page Continuous) 4. Click OK after you have selected your page Layout. These changes will become effective the next time you open an Adobe file. |
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10-01-2009, 05:26 AM | #108 | |
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10-01-2009, 10:36 AM | #109 |
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You guys really need to stop obsessing. Do you have pictures of me lining the walls of your bedrooms too? Do you Google my name first thing every morning when you turn on your computers? You both apparently spend all your waking hours on this "Anti-Speed Limit" forum, so when do you get time for the hi-speed boating that you supposedly enjoy so much? All this mention of me just tempts me back, and I know you don't want these "Anti-Speed Limit" threads tainted by people who believe in the rule of law.
Exactly. Could those really be the causes? Could "peace and harmony" really have reappeared because of some rain in June? Because of an economic recession? Nice theories, but I don't think so. Isn't it much more plausible that they returned because of the change in the law that forced a return to "peace and harmony"? Here's a well-articulated story from the same paper that you guys conveniently missed that explains it better; ftp://www.laconiadailysun.com/Laconiapdf/2009/9/29L.pdf "For those who need to pilot a boat at 90 MPH, the ocean is nearby To the editor, The letters from Mr. Verdonk and Mr. Stewart exemplify the problems the high speed boating crowd faces trying to find fault with a speed limit. They just don’t know how to find a problem with such a sensible law, so they make things up. While I appreciate that Mr. Stewart at least had the fortitude to admit that boaters slowed down because of the speed limit, saying that the only thing that did was erode her shoreline is just plain silly. Why would a “ginormous” boat going 45 erode her shoreline and the same boat going 85 not? If “ginormous” boats are going anything over headway speed that close to his shoreline, then he has other causes to complain besides a speed limit. If “ginormous” boats were going that close to my shoreline, I certainly wouldn’t want them to be going 85 MPH. And as to Mr. Verdonk’s letter, it is a common debating trick to start off with a mischaracterization of your opponent’s position, then disprove the mischaracterization. But if one reads Mr. Verdonk’s letter with my actual statements in mind, it all falls apart. I never “attribute the reduced boating activity to the success of the new speed limits” as he asserts to set up his whole letter. In fact, as I said, I was referring to the times I was seeing as many if not more boats out there. Several weekends in August the lake was as crowded as I’ve ever seen it, but it just FELT LIKE it was less crowded because almost everyone was going slower, as Ms. Stewart also saw. How did the economy do that? More civility during sunny days when the lake is just as crowded has nothing to do with the economy or bad weather. The economy and rain might have affected the boating numbers this year (at times), but it could only have been the speed limit that slowed them down, as Mr. Stewart himself admits. The typical Granite Stater new to this whole discussion will ask how anyone could rationalize opposition to a reasonable limit of boating speeds on a lake so crowded with such big boats. But of course, those who make a lot of money over-crowding our lake with over-fast boats and those who boast about the “need for speed” are not your typical Granite Staters. They don’t think rationally. Their selfish interests and “needs” cloud their common sense. And they are not interested in the activities that most Granite Staters enjoy or that NH wants to offer tourists to attract them to come here. The brochures one picks up at our rest stops show the natural beauty of our state. Photos depict our beautiful lakes and mountains as safe and open to family recreational activities. You see canoes and sailboats. You see families water skiing and fishing. You see loons and sunsets. Imagine how many tourists we’d attract if those brochures instead showed 6-ton boats flying around at 80-90 mph amongst the canoes and kayaks? That is not the NH I grew up in, or that my summer neighbors want to come to. For every one tourist such an image attracts to NH, it will send 100 somewhere else. See what that does to our economy, Mr. Verdonk. Forty-five MPH is a very reasonable top speed for a boat on Lake Winnipesaukee. It’s the typical speed limit on lakes like Winnipesaukee around the country and has proven effective over and over. There is not a single lake-appropriate boating activity that one cannot enjoy at 45 MPH. And for those with “the need” to go 90 MPH, the ocean is just 50 miles down the road. Anyone who argues that 45 is too slow for this lake, whether blaming it on shore erosion, the economy, the weather, or some other nonsensical reason, is just not being honest. As Mr. Chase’s letter said, the bottom line is that NH’s citizens asked for the law and seem to love its effects, while the offenders are obviously unhappy with it. How many laws can we say that about? And doesn’t that prove it’s working? Jack Weeks Meredith" PS; I bet it will take less than one hundred and twenty seconds for OCD to respond. |
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10-01-2009, 11:09 AM | #110 |
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Elchase is apparently the type of person that truely enjoys having people talk about him. I would recommend that we do not continue to temp him back, discuss the subject of his posts and pretend that it came out of thin air, he will eventually get frustrated with not having anyone talk about him or his ideals.
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10-01-2009, 11:14 AM | #111 |
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Actually we need to have elchase keep posting, IMO it clearly makes the case of the opposers to the speed limit.
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10-01-2009, 11:21 AM | #112 |
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Fat Jack???
I've got to wonder if these letters submitted by Jack Weeks is also the same infamous "Fat Jack" from the prior speed limit debates back in 06' & 07'? and what possible screen name is he going by now???
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10-01-2009, 11:47 AM | #113 |
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Farve
Mr. Chase / Mr. Favre
I have to admire your resiliency. We all understand your position on the speed limit. You wrote your editorials and you have a right to do that. Some speed limit opponents wrote their editorials and they had the right to as well. I actually think you believe every word you have written. It’s not a lie if one believes its truth. Please give those who oppose you the same consideration. Last edited by Kracken; 10-01-2009 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Deleted question to elchase |
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10-01-2009, 01:02 PM | #114 | |
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Use the Ignore Feature
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Reading his posts became something I decided I no longer needed to do. If we all had him on ignore, the silence would be golden. R2B Last edited by Resident 2B; 10-01-2009 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Spelling |
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10-01-2009, 01:06 PM | #115 |
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Kracken, Take everyone else's advice and don't bother engaging.. Nothing can come out of it.... No need getting down to that level.
Farve fades back to pass... pressure and is sacked...........
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10-01-2009, 01:07 PM | #116 |
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Just a few comments
Questions remain.
And will remain unasked El, I can only direct you to this thread I started, and pretty much spoke my peace. Feel free to contribute. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8617 |
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10-01-2009, 02:40 PM | #117 |
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You are correct OCDACTIVE, I have detracted the question to elchase.
Last edited by Kracken; 10-01-2009 at 03:25 PM. |
10-01-2009, 04:24 PM | #118 | |
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I don't need speed or speed limits
I won't quote the entire letter but will highlight a few items. I'll also add a few comments in blue
Quote:
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10-04-2009, 09:43 AM | #121 |
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Gilligan, why ruin good propaganda?
Gilligan,
What are you doing? Pointing out the fallacies of speed limit proponents might ruin their credibility. The general non-boating public might recognize that these pro speed limit arguments are designed to illicit fear and portray the lake as a scary and unsafe place. They make it sound like it was only fit for dare-devils and did not have a nice family friendly atmosphere. They want the public to believe that the 45-25 mph speed limit has made the lake safe and civil as if it was not like that before the 2 year speed limit experiment. If you and some of the other irrational thinkers (as some call opponents of the 25 - 45 limit) keep questioning their illogical premises it might sink in to those who are unfamiliar with boating just what kind of scare tactics the pro speed limit crowd is using to elicit their support and appeal to their sensibilities. Why do you want to ruin their pro-speed limit fantasies? They will out talk you and keep making the same false allegations of a wild lake over and over again until the public gives up and accepts their rhetoric without regard to reality and the truth. I didn't know the lake was unsafe and uncivil until I started reading what the pro-speed limit minority had to say . And to think I exposed my wife and children to this lake and enjoyed it without absolute speed limits all these years. disclaimer: I have no connection with the boating or tourist industry and I do not have a boat capable of speeds over 40 mph and I DO NOT support the 45 - 25 mph speed limit. P.S. Thanks Gilligan |
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10-04-2009, 11:05 AM | #122 | |
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Some of us tried in earnest to have real discussions, not debates, about safety. The SL supporters wanted nothing to do with any of that. For many life long boaters, safety and enjoyment is what it's all about. The SL supporters have shown they are only interested in their own interests. We have APS, that once said it was great to have motorists blocking the left lane on highways in what he called "rolling roadblocks" or some such thing. I understand extreme noise and chaos is not popular, I don't like it either and would stop it. Try to engage in rational discussion with these folks and it becomes readily apparent that they don't share your thoughts at all. They want one or more groups of boaters off the lake, pretty much Period. |
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10-04-2009, 04:10 PM | #123 |
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Lost that bet.... not worth it anymore anyway.
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10-05-2009, 09:23 AM | #124 |
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Poor boy. That challenge must have been so painful for you to resist. You must have thought "how long do I need to wait to respond without looking like a nerd?". I notice you were "thankyouing" the other posters right off the bat. Are you ever not logged into these threads?
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10-05-2009, 09:30 AM | #125 |
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didn't you say your good byes? Obviously you are trying to make things personal and I am not taking the bait.
This is why these threads get a bad name and I am not bringing them down as you have shown all along to be your intention. Have fun on the water.... See you out there. Farve is playing tonight..
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10-05-2009, 10:01 AM | #126 | |
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10-05-2009, 10:32 AM | #127 |
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I thought Brett Farve retired?
Then he came back.... Then he retired again Then he came back.... Now he is saying this is not about revenge???? Looks like revenge to me. |
10-05-2009, 02:37 PM | #128 |
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Hey...aren't we getting all getting a little touchy here about El's last post? Seems as if we've seen more than a couple posts "razzing" him , comments like the the one about him chasing felons, etc., etc., etc. Why all of a sudden this new higher standard for posting? Is it because he's one of the few SL supporters left on the forum who hasn't been badgered into oblivion? There's a few of you who can sure dish it out, but when it comes to taking it in return, well....
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10-05-2009, 03:06 PM | #129 | |
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There are many SL supporters that have been on here since day one and still are. They, like yourself, have been involved in some very heated discussions but it never got to the point of any personal attacks. And if it was construed that way it was immediately followed up with an apology. El has in 68 posts driven his own reputation down. And no one has forced him to do so or to continue to stir the pot. You have been one of the leading SL supporter and contributer to your cause. Although I don't agree with your views you do put them out there in a very dignified manner and again I applaud you for those actions. Don't get dragged along for the ride leading to no good.
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10-05-2009, 04:46 PM | #130 |
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I wish Mr. Weeks and his cronies would just admit, their real agenda is to:
Eliminate Performance Boats from Winnipesaukee If they truly cared about Safety a Safe Passage Law is all that is needed. If a performance boat or any vessel is traveling at an unsafe speed for the conditions then the MP have the ability to cite someone. In any event I have news for Mr. Weeks and his cronies... Performance Boats and their captains are not going anywhere...this is our lake too In case people forget..performance boats have been a part of Winni since the early days... http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/R...story-1926.htm |
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10-05-2009, 04:56 PM | #131 | |
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I couldn't agree more. It is clear and has even been stated by some SL supporters that they do not have an actual problem with speed but with other issues such as noise. They are using this as a front to move their agenda. It is only matter of time before they start on limits on Horsepower, then "size" of the boat all together. This way to target not only performance boats but cruisers as well. A shame to say the least.
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10-05-2009, 05:35 PM | #132 |
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CHAPTER 270-D, “BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS” http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-D/270-D-2.htm already has a section (Section 270-D:2 X a) that talks about "Safe Passage".
To me that is good enough and they can remove sub paragraphs b, c, and d of that section. Section 270-D:2 X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore. (b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful: (1) 25 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and (2) 45 miles per hour at any other time. (c) The speed limitations set forth in subparagraph (b) shall not apply to vessels when operated with due regard for safety under the direction of the peace officers in the chase or apprehension of violators of the law or of persons charged with, or suspected of, any such violation, nor to fire department or fire patrol vessels, nor to private emergency vessels when traveling to emergencies. This exemption shall not, however, protect the operator of any such vessel from the consequences of a reckless disregard of the safety of others. (d) The speed limitations set forth in subparagraph (b) shall not apply to boat racing permitted under RSA 270:27. |
10-05-2009, 09:49 PM | #133 |
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It should be noted that El Chase scoffed at the Safe Passage rule. I believe that was the same time Codeman's boat problem story was being scoffed at as well.
This is fine "Section 270-D:2 X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore. " |
10-06-2009, 10:36 AM | #134 | |
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Of course, if they're just disturbed, that's they're problem! Sam, I agree; the first paragraph is all that's needed for the Marine Patrol. I wonder, if the MP could speak their mind publicly, what their position would be?
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10-06-2009, 03:11 PM | #135 |
Senior Member
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I wonder
if anyone's read through the buildup of this issue from way back in 2002. You would think that with all the media articles written since then, that the Littlefield accident would have left some fresh memories for people. Perhaps not, since the vast majority of facts from that case are never spoken about, yet it continues to be the fuel for the fire even now.
Facts that are not spoken of. 1) Littlefield was seen by many witnesses at The Meredith Town Docks He was seen dancing around, by himself, eyes closed. 2) Littlefield was seen at the docks in his boat, fumbling around before leaving. 3) Several witnesses testified at trial that Littlefield had slurred his speech, and was visibly impaired. 4) There were even questions about the victim's stern light, something he had sought to replace according to a marina employee. 5) Littlefield was not convicted of BUI, since he was AWOL for about 48 hours, rendering a blood test useless. 6) The bar that Littlefield was drunk dancing in, and left from, that fateful night, has a direct link to That organization that promotes the SL passage. 7) Littlefield's insurance company disallowed the claims, because "The company said its coverage is barred, however, because it excludes criminal acts. The policy excludes coverage for "any loss, damage or liability willfully, intentionally or criminally caused or incurred by an insured person.''" |
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