Sonotube Foundation Installation (on an island).

IslandRadio · 10-01-2009, 06:53 AM

Hi - this is in Alton on Rattlesnake -

I'm contemplating building an outbuilding (maybe 20 x 14 or 20 x 12 - something like that) for a workshop.

It seems that a "real" foundation consisting of sonotubs filled with concrete would be necessary for something like that as opposed to just placing concrete blocks on the ground and using that to support the structure, although I'm not completely convinced one way or the other.

Assuming sonotubes, any suggestions on getting that kind of work done out on an island? I'm going to do everything else myself, but I don't have any experience in trying to dig sufficient holes in the rocky island soil, nor do I have any cement equipment.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks and Regards,

Steve

jmen24 · 10-01-2009, 07:49 AM

What level of finish are you looking for in the building?

If you are planning heat, finished interior walls, nice double hung windows (that you would like to use) and prehung doors, you will need to get your footing below frost line or on bedrock (which ever comes first). If that is your plan then you will need sonotubes for the foundation. The sonotubes will also need a footing at the base to distribute the load and keep it from moving out of position, if you are on bedrock you will not need this just a drilled pin into the stone.

If you are planning no heat (or heating just enough to keep the chill out in fall and spring), no interior finish on the walls, windows (that if they open great), and site build barn doors. I would say go with the blocks and call it good. The only thing I would recommend if you use cinder blocks is that you are putting alot of weight on a 8"x16" area, form up and pour a 2'x2'x6" pad under each area were the blocks are located. Doing that will keep your blocks from rolling and changing the point loads on the floor framing of your structure.

Other than that most towns are going to consider both methods pier foundations and the regulations are the same on both. Because you are not living in the structure it is up to you on how fancy you want to get. The sonotubes are going to give you a better foundation in the long run, but if they are not installed correctly you are wasting time and money. One other thing to consider is having an excavation contractor that will bring their mini-excavator to your site, install the pre-cast footing piers, that way you are not dealing with having to mix and pour concrete and is a lower cost option compared to tradition tubes. And the turn around time is faster, because the contractor digs a hole, sets the pier, backfills and moves to the next.

IslandRadio · 10-01-2009, 08:12 PM

Hi !

I'm planning on reasonable finish - good windows for sure - possibly insulation and interrior finish of some kind.

I don't want the building to heave, so I guess I'll have to go the sonotube route. Now its a matter of finding someone reliable to put them in. I can take it from there!

Island Girl · 10-03-2009, 02:22 PM

Some parts of the broads side are very very wet and foundations move.....

IslandRadio · 10-03-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Girl

Some parts of the broads side are very very wet and foundations move.....

Hi!

I'm on the West side of the Peninsula heading towards Young's Cove, however old "Rattlesnake Mountain" goes up right behind the back yard. I want to make sure there's no movement of the building (or the foundation!).

Regards,

Steve

ACutAbove · 10-04-2009, 04:02 PM

Not to be the bad news person here but have you thought about permiting for your project? If you are going to digging anywhere near the shorefront that might be something you might want to look into.
The days of just throwing in some concrete into the ground for a structure are long passed especially if you are with in the 250' of the water front.
Getting someone out to the island with anytype of machinery to dig holes is considered a major project and will require somesort of permitting Im sure..
Just hate to see someone get fines for not knowing what new laws are regarding construction like this.

IslandRadio · 10-05-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACutAbove

Not to be the bad news person here but have you thought about permiting for your project? If you are going to digging anywhere near the shorefront that might be something you might want to look into.
The days of just throwing in some concrete into the ground for a structure are long passed especially if you are with in the 250' of the water front.
Getting someone out to the island with anytype of machinery to dig holes is considered a major project and will require somesort of permitting Im sure..
Just hate to see someone get fines for not knowing what new laws are regarding construction like this.

Absolutely (but thanks for pointing it out anyway - much better safe than sorry

). My first stop before doing anything (other than getting some quotes) is to see the Alton building department (or relevant person or board). The proposed shop location is well back from the lake - behind the existing cottage by about 75 feet.

I've seen other accessory buildings put up recently, so I'm fairly certain I can obtain the proper permits for my relatively modest project

Thanks and Regards,

Steve

Onshore · 10-06-2009, 10:28 AM

If you are constructing a new structure or expanding the footrint of an existing one within 250 ft of the lake you will need a shoreland impact permit from NH DES as well as any required local building permit.

You can find more information here:
http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis...cspa/index.htm

Formula260SS · 10-06-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shore things

If you are constructing a new structure or expanding the footrint of an existing one within 250 ft of the lake you will need a shoreland impact permit from NH DES as well as any required local building permit.

You can find more information here:
http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis...cspa/index.htm

Shore Things, if the structure is less than 150 sq/ft do you still need to go through DES if it's 50' or more back from the lake?

Onshore · 10-06-2009, 03:37 PM

Actually now that you mention it, there's a specific exception in the rules for that. I will post the rule designation and language on that tomorrow when I get a chance.

Good catch...

Onshore · 10-07-2009, 07:37 AM

Env-Wq 1406.04 Activities in Protected Shoreland That Do Not Require a Shoreland Permit. (d) Activities exempt pursuant to (a), above, because the activity constitutes de minimis construction,
excavation, or filling shall be as follows:

(9) Placement of a single structure more than 50 feet from the reference line, provided that:

a. The footprint of the structure is less than 150 sq. ft.;
b. No excavation or filling using mechanized equipment will occur in conjunction with the construction or placement of the structure;
c. The structure will not be heated;
d. The structure will not have electricity or plumbing; and
e. The structure will not be used as living space for humans.

Changes to RSA 483-B enacted September 13, 2009 by SB 134 eliminate the need for items c, d, and e. Those qualifiers will be removed in the next available rulemaking package.

Grady223 · 10-07-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandRadio

Hi - this is in Alton on Rattlesnake -

Assuming sonotubes, any suggestions on getting that kind of work done out on an island? I'm going to do everything else myself, but I don't have any experience in trying to dig sufficient holes in the rocky island soil, nor do I have any cement equipment.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks and Regards,

Steve

I would highly recommend Winnipesaukee Marine Construction for this type of island work.

Belmont Resident · 10-12-2009, 05:46 AM

www.kaclason.com
He is building the new camp at the southern tip of Rattlesnake Island.
Kurt will be out there starting tomorrow for the rest of the week working on the interior.
Kurt has jacked up camps, installed footings you name it.
At the very least you can get reliable information from someone who has done the work and is familiar with all rules and regulations.
Depending on the type of terrain you might be looking at a lot more work than you think do the job RIGHT.

10-01-2009, 06:53 AM	#1
IslandRadio Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mirror Lake - Full time resident Posts: 398 Thanks: 70 Thanked 156 Times in 61 Posts	Sonotube Foundation Installation (on an island). Hi - this is in Alton on Rattlesnake - I'm contemplating building an outbuilding (maybe 20 x 14 or 20 x 12 - something like that) for a workshop. It seems that a "real" foundation consisting of sonotubs filled with concrete would be necessary for something like that as opposed to just placing concrete blocks on the ground and using that to support the structure, although I'm not completely convinced one way or the other. Assuming sonotubes, any suggestions on getting that kind of work done out on an island? I'm going to do everything else myself, but I don't have any experience in trying to dig sufficient holes in the rocky island soil, nor do I have any cement equipment. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks and Regards, Steve

10-03-2009, 02:22 PM	#4
Island Girl Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Central MA Posts: 2,352 Thanks: 18 Thanked 535 Times in 179 Posts	On which side of the island are you building? Some parts of the broads side are very very wet and foundations move..... __________________ Island Girl ....... Make Lemonade

10-12-2009, 05:46 AM	#13
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 410 Times in 251 Posts	give Kurt Clason a call www.kaclason.com He is building the new camp at the southern tip of Rattlesnake Island. Kurt will be out there starting tomorrow for the rest of the week working on the interior. Kurt has jacked up camps, installed footings you name it. At the very least you can get reliable information from someone who has done the work and is familiar with all rules and regulations. Depending on the type of terrain you might be looking at a lot more work than you think do the job RIGHT.

10-01-2009, 07:49 AM	#2
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	What level of finish are you looking for in the building? If you are planning heat, finished interior walls, nice double hung windows (that you would like to use) and prehung doors, you will need to get your footing below frost line or on bedrock (which ever comes first). If that is your plan then you will need sonotubes for the foundation. The sonotubes will also need a footing at the base to distribute the load and keep it from moving out of position, if you are on bedrock you will not need this just a drilled pin into the stone. If you are planning no heat (or heating just enough to keep the chill out in fall and spring), no interior finish on the walls, windows (that if they open great), and site build barn doors. I would say go with the blocks and call it good. The only thing I would recommend if you use cinder blocks is that you are putting alot of weight on a 8"x16" area, form up and pour a 2'x2'x6" pad under each area were the blocks are located. Doing that will keep your blocks from rolling and changing the point loads on the floor framing of your structure. Other than that most towns are going to consider both methods pier foundations and the regulations are the same on both. Because you are not living in the structure it is up to you on how fancy you want to get. The sonotubes are going to give you a better foundation in the long run, but if they are not installed correctly you are wasting time and money. One other thing to consider is having an excavation contractor that will bring their mini-excavator to your site, install the pre-cast footing piers, that way you are not dealing with having to mix and pour concrete and is a lower cost option compared to tradition tubes. And the turn around time is faster, because the contractor digs a hole, sets the pier, backfills and moves to the next.

10-01-2009, 08:12 PM	#3
IslandRadio Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mirror Lake - Full time resident Posts: 398 Thanks: 70 Thanked 156 Times in 61 Posts	Hi ! I'm planning on reasonable finish - good windows for sure - possibly insulation and interrior finish of some kind. I don't want the building to heave, so I guess I'll have to go the sonotube route. Now its a matter of finding someone reliable to put them in. I can take it from there!

10-04-2009, 04:02 PM	#6
ACutAbove Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Holderness Posts: 219 Thanks: 7 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Not to be the bad news person here but have you thought about permiting for your project? If you are going to digging anywhere near the shorefront that might be something you might want to look into. The days of just throwing in some concrete into the ground for a structure are long passed especially if you are with in the 250' of the water front. Getting someone out to the island with anytype of machinery to dig holes is considered a major project and will require somesort of permitting Im sure.. Just hate to see someone get fines for not knowing what new laws are regarding construction like this.

10-06-2009, 10:28 AM	#8
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 502 Thanks: 12 Thanked 423 Times in 145 Posts	If you are constructing a new structure or expanding the footrint of an existing one within 250 ft of the lake you will need a shoreland impact permit from NH DES as well as any required local building permit. You can find more information here: http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis...cspa/index.htm

10-06-2009, 03:37 PM	#10
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 502 Thanks: 12 Thanked 423 Times in 145 Posts	Actually now that you mention it, there's a specific exception in the rules for that. I will post the rule designation and language on that tomorrow when I get a chance. Good catch...

10-07-2009, 07:37 AM	#11
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 502 Thanks: 12 Thanked 423 Times in 145 Posts	Env-Wq 1406.04 Activities in Protected Shoreland That Do Not Require a Shoreland Permit. (d) Activities exempt pursuant to (a), above, because the activity constitutes de minimis construction, excavation, or filling shall be as follows: (9) Placement of a single structure more than 50 feet from the reference line, provided that: a. The footprint of the structure is less than 150 sq. ft.; b. No excavation or filling using mechanized equipment will occur in conjunction with the construction or placement of the structure; c. The structure will not be heated; d. The structure will not have electricity or plumbing; and e. The structure will not be used as living space for humans. Changes to RSA 483-B enacted September 13, 2009 by SB 134 eliminate the need for items c, d, and e. Those qualifiers will be removed in the next available rulemaking package.