Fish & Game looking for new fees!

[Airwaves]

From the Concord Monitor:

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department wants to impose new fees on boaters and take a portion of the state's rooms and meals tax to ward off a five (m) million dollar budget shortfall.
The department, created in 1935, originally maintained game animal and fish stocks for hunters and fishermen. But its scope has expanded to encompass conservation of wetlands and open space, search and rescue, public education and the policing of off-highway recreational vehicles. Unlike most state departments, Fish and Game is self-supporting and must pay for its operations through fees paid mostly by hunters and anglers.
Fish and Game is proposing a ten dollar annual conservation decal for all non-motorized boats, which would net about one-point-five (m) million dollars a year. Charging salt-water anglers an annual fee and taking a cut of the rooms and meals tax would raise an additional five-point-six (m) million dollars.
Department officials hope lawmakers will introduce the proposals in the coming legislative session.

[JTA]

Quite a nice new Donzi that Fish and Game keeps tied up at 19 Mile Bay. I didn't realize they were strapped for $$$.

[Fishy Cover]

I read that the reason for the budget shortfall is that fewer fishing and hunting licenses are now being sold because fewer people fish and hunt. If this were a business it would have to adjust to a decrease in customers by downsizing and becoming more efficient while simultaneously finding a way to attract more customers.

This sounds like a case of a government organization that wants to continue spending and protect itself despite a significant change in the need for its services. The strategy of increasing taxes when the cause of the budget shortfall is that there are fewer users is not the New Hampshire way.

[Puck]

I can't speak to any Donzi that Fish & Game may own but I can say this: I have, with the exception of time away at college, lived my entire life in NH and every year since I was 16 I've purchased a fishing license. The price of a hunting or fishing license has almost doubled in that time and it is well over the rate charged in any other state I've visited. As much as the price of a license aggravates me Ihave to object to Fishycover's comments on spending. I was fortunate enough to work summers within the Fisheries Program at NH Fish & Game while I was in college. Of all state agencies they are the one most run like a business. They do not get general funds. They are force to fund themselves through licenses and fees. They work with minimal staff and are mindful of their budget. The one thing they were willing to put extra money towards was vehicles. The reason being that with few staff it meant that people had to cover large districts, often in poor conditions, and reliable transportation is a must.

One of the problems with running Fish & Game like a business is that they are responsible for search & rescue operations. These operations chew up huge amounts of time and money. How do you run Search and Rescue like a business? It can't be done. While I appreciate the need for these operations and I have sympathy for the families of whomever they may be searching for I would rather have the funds paying for the search coming from some other source than my license fees.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Fishy Cover

I read that the reason for the budget shortfall is that fewer fishing and hunting licenses are now being sold because fewer people fish and hunt. If this were a business it would have to adjust to a decrease in customers by downsizing and becoming more efficient while simultaneously finding a way to attract more customers.

Sounds great, except you forgot about S&R for missing persons.

Fewer drownings would be a big help...

Do your part - stay in the boat and wear a PFD, at all times, when away from the dock, including at a mooring.

Seriously, do your part to help F&G, financially...

[Weirs guy]

Its a case of "scope creep". As the scope of the department's responsibilities increase so must the funds to do so. Its unfair to make them operate under the same budget constraints while adding work. I know that businesses have to operate this way, but if my family member is missing and in danger I really don't want someone with a "business like mentality" operating to find them!

Perhaps they should look at funding search and rescues from the general tax fund and other activities from license fees? Someone somewhere in the state has to perform search and rescues, so someone somewhere in the state will have to pay for it.

[LIforrelaxin]

"Fish and Game is proposing a ten dollar annual conservation decal for all non-motorized boats" --- quoted from Concord Monitor via Airwaves post above

Now here is food for thought. What are they going to consider a boat here. Are my Kayaks and Canoe going to be considered a "boat" under this proposal. If so that is another 30$ for summer fun in my case. I don't mind paying a little, and certainly fish and game in my mind is doing a good job with the funding they have. But enough is enough. With all the funding issues I continue to hear in NH, I think it is time for the state legislature to really consider re-evaluating how NH government spending is handle.

Now all you NH residents don't fly off the handle here thinking I am talking about Taxes here because I am not. Whether or not that could come up as a side item or not who knows. But what I am talking about here, is that it appears to me the the state of NH does not have a good financial structure to fund everything in the state. It is time instead of raising property taxes and meals and room taxes for the state and towns to sit down and work through there accounting stucture. There is no reason why towns in a state that has so many 2nd home residents and a booming tourism market should be having these issues....

[RLW]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

"Fish and Game is proposing a ten dollar annual conservation decal for all non-motorized boats"....

My I ask where this qoute came from???

[Lin]

If you back up to Airwaves start article it's in the middle of the quote from the Concord Monitor. I missed it the first time around too. For our hand powered craft hat'll be $40 for our family for kayaks and canoes on top of the out of state fishing licenses.

[JTA]

It should be possible to float a canoe or kayak without having to pay a fee. I was upset when my Sunfish required a boat registration. As a matter of principle, it should be possible for folks with little money to at least have some free access to the waters.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by RLW

My I ask where this qoute came from???

RLW I corrected my post to point back up to Airwaves post and qoute from the Concord Monitor......sorry about that

[fatlazyless]

In Ocober 2005, Sen Judd Gregg won over eight hundred thousand dollars when he purchased a quik-pik power-ball ticket in Washington D.C. for five dollars. Out of his 800k plus win the State of New Hampshire, where he is a resident, got a great big ZERO in any tax revenue.

Considering that his official Governor's portrait which hangs permanently in the NH State House has him super-imposed in front of Mt Washington and wearing a khaki duck hunting jacket, maybe he could make a good will donation of ten dollars to the underfunded Fish & Game Dept as an incentive for other Senator Easy-Money(s) to donate?

[Airwaves]

Puck wrote:

They do not get general funds. They are force to fund themselves through licenses and fees.

Marine Patrol also gets no money from the general fund and relies on registration fees. Why is it that a state that markets itself as a recreation destination doesn't fund the agencies responsible for providing aide and enforcing the laws?

I guess that's just The New Hamsphire Way!

[The Big Kahuna]

I think non-motorize boats should kick in something, if they were charged just a few dollars, with the shear volume you could raise a bunch of money for Fish & Game. The Fish & Game provide safety for our water ways, why wouldn't we all want to pitch in for that.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

The Fish & Game provide safety for our water ways, why wouldn't we all want to pitch in for that.

How does F&G provide safety on our waters? That job is Marine Patrol's.

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by NightWing

How does F&G provide safety on our waters? That job is Marine Patrol's.

Fish and game are always going out on the small lakes and saving fisher-persons that fall into the water from their boats. It happens all the time and they make many, many saves. It is mostly small self powered boats.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

Fish and game are always going out on the small lakes and saving fisher-persons that fall into the water from their boats. It happens all the time and they make many, many saves. It is mostly small self powered boats.

I would like to see statistics on that. That is not their purpose. Their primary function, as far as water activities, is to assure compliance with fishing laws. They don't get involved with boating laws.

Obviously, any boater, whether it be a F&G officer, Marine Patrol or Joe Citizen is going to assist any boater in distress if they happen upon them.

F&G does recover drowning victims.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by NightWing

...Their primary function, as far as water activities, is to assure compliance with fishing laws. They don't get involved with boating laws...

Correct....while they will (and are authorized) to enforce boating laws while on regular patrol, that is a very secondary function unless assigned for a special event.

And as the opening of this thread reveals, officials at Fish & Game are trying to make a case that they do not even have enough money to aptly man their primary functions, let alone delve into areas already covered by other law enforcement agencies!

[lynnicken]

Alot more people that don't hunt or fish benfit from the efforts and programs funded by the F & G Dept than you think. Hikers, paddlers, bird watchers, ATVers... anyone else who enjoys the out of doors but doesn't buy a license contributes little to nothing to habitat restoration or the maintenance of the game or nongame species of the state. And it's been that way for a long time. But in the past, there has been enough of us "sportsmen" funding the department so no one complained. Now, there fewer places open to hunting and fewer people staying with or new to the sport but more people getting into other outdoor activities. Folks have been enjoying nature on the hunter's dime for a long time.

[The Big Kahuna]

[QUOTE=NightWing]I would like to see statistics on that. That is not their purpose.

Here lies the problem! The fact that I know that they do more is enough for me, they are under funded and need help.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by JTA

"...I was upset when my Sunfish required a boat registration. As a matter of principle, it should be possible for folks with little money to at least have some free access to the waters."

IIRC, didn't 50¢ of that fee go towards rescue costs?

Before they start taxing (sorry, fee-ing) paddles, oars and swim noodles, you'd think F&G would look at costly rescue activities.

Although one or two rescued hikers have cheerfully coughed up the thousand$ that visitors cost the State for their rescues, how much goes uncollected?

[Lin]

Originally Posted by lynnicken

Alot more people that don't hunt or fish benfit from the efforts and programs funded by the F & G Dept than you think. Hikers, paddlers, bird watchers, ATVers... anyone else who enjoys the out of doors but doesn't buy a license contributes little to nothing to habitat restoration or the maintenance of the game or nongame species of the state. And it's been that way for a long time. But in the past, there has been enough of us "sportsmen" funding the department so no one complained. Now, there fewer places open to hunting and fewer people staying with or new to the sport but more people getting into other outdoor activities. Folks have been enjoying nature on the hunter's dime for a long time.

We've always bought licenses for the year in both MA and NH even if we end up fishing for just a few days. I don't know about NH but since 1983 in MA there is a checkoff on the tax form for anyone that files taxes to help the Natural Heritage and endangered species fund. The hunting and fishing licenses also include a $5.00 for a wildlands conservation stamp. They use a lot of this money to purchase lands deemed necessary habitat for wildlife.

This is a quote direct from the MA site of DFW Does NH have something similar that they promote to those that don't participate in hunting and fishing? >>>Hunting, Fishing & Trapping License Fees--Support fish & wildlife conservation in Massachusetts! MassWildlife's wildlife conservation, education and information projects are supported primarily through license fees, federal Sport Fish & Wildlife Restoration Act reimbursements (P-R & D-J) and donations to the Non-Game & Endangered Species Program. About 5% of MassWildlife's budget utilizes general tax funds are used for land acquisition and endangered species work. Even if you don't fish, hunt or trap, contribute to the important programs which benefit all wildlife and people in the Commonwealth. <<<<

I don't mind paying a fee for a canoe or kayak if it is small enough, but the problem I have is we have no motorboat at all just 2 canoes and 4 kayaks. They are all muscle power and don't cause much of a wake. If they were to charge I'd rather see a household fee not a per boat fee.

[Airwaves]

From article:

Fish and Game is proposing a ten dollar annual conservation decal for all non-motorized boats, which would net about one-point-five (m) million dollars a year.

I wonder where they got the figure that there are only 150,000 kayaks, canoes, rowboats, Sunfish etc in the state?

[Airwaves]

From Foster's Daily Democrat:

The New Hampshire Fish and Game's Department is getting mixed reaction to its plan to ward off a budget shortfall by imposing new fees on boaters and taking a portion of the state's rooms and meals tax.
Unlike most state departments, Fish and Game is self-supporting and must pay for its operations through fees paid mostly by hunters and anglers. The department is proposing a ten dollar annual conservation decal for all non-motorized boats, charging salt-water anglers an annual fee and taking a cut of the rooms and meals tax.
Jason MacKenzie, whose Greenland convenience store sells fishing tackle, bait and licenses to anglers, says the new fees would drive anglers to Maine and Massachusetts.
But Jason Parent, who owns a sporting goods store in Laconia, says the proposed fees are fair and that they new revenue would benefit all residents, some of whom may one day need to be rescued by Fish and Game officials.
___
Information from: Foster's Daily Democrat, http://www.fosters.com

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

From article:

I wonder where they got the figure that there are only 150,000 kayaks, canoes, rowboats, Sunfish etc in the state?

Sunfish are already supposed to pay a registration, since they are sailboats 12 feet and over in length.

[lynnicken]

I know this is a "Lake" forum and I appologize that my previous rant focused more on hunting but it's the season we're in right now. Now I don't have one of those go fast boats and I don't wish to get off on the speed limit issue on this thread. I do have a motorized boat, a canoe, and a kayak and understand people's safety concerns, but I believe speed is not the issue on Winni, it's congestion and boaters not following separation and right of way rules.
If I could get back to the Fish and game Dept funding issue. All those public launches around the state, guess who pays for those?

[Airwaves]

Nightwing wrote:

Sunfish are already supposed to pay a registration, since they are sailboats 12 feet and over in length.

I think you get my point, if not PM me.

lynnicken wrote:

If I could get back to the Fish and game Dept funding issue. All those public launches around the state, guess who pays for those?

Exactly, perhaps those "free" boat launches that folks use, but are willing pay to park trailers on private property, should have a launch fee attached?

APS wrote:

Although one or two rescued hikers have cheerfully coughed up the thousand$ that visitors cost the State for their rescues, how much goes uncollected?

It is my understanding that when a hiker gets lost in the woods that if he/she is negligent then F&G charges them for the cost of the rescue operation. They certainly have the authority to do so, if they don't then that should be addressed.

[fatlazyless]

Maybe the new Democratic legislature would support a two-part bill. It could create the ten dollar, Fish & Game, decal for non-motorized boats, and establish an HB162 style state-wide law which sets the limits at 45mph day, and 25mph night, all over the state. After all, the performance boaters were referring to the kayaks as 'speed bumps," so the kayakers would get a safer lake for their ten dollars.

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Maybe the new Democratic legislature would support a two-part bill. It could create the ten dollar, Fish & Game, decal for non-motorized boats, and establish an HB162 style state-wide law which sets the limits at 45mph day, and 25mph night, all over the state. After all, the performance boaters were referring to the kayaks as 'speed bumps," so the kayakers would get a safer lake for their ten dollars.

There you go, what other ideas can we come up with to help fund Fish & Game?

[Tired of Waiting]

This could get real interesting!!

How are they going to handle all the out of state boats?? When I come north I bring my boat, which is registered in MA. Then the canoe and kayaks. How will they handle these. Will the visitors have to purchase a special $?? decal before they put them into the water?

Then, how about all the camps for kids that have MANY canoes and sail boats. Will they have to purchase a decal for each of them.

Just one more thing for MP to police. Or would F&G have to police?

ToW

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Tired of Waiting

...This could get real interesting!!...just one more thing for MP to police. Or would F&G have to police?...ToW

Remember, the new legislative body has not even met yet to build committees and alliances, never mind proposing any new legislation for the upcoming year.

What the F&G Director did was float a trial balloon out on the waters to guage response. What do I think the Department's real intent is? To get the legislature to fund a significant portion of its budget via the general fund, not by imposing a vast scheme of unwieldy and unliked users fees.

So far the game is playing out in F&G's favor. Most people are usually against additional fees & tariffs. The implementation & enforcement of some of these suggested fees would eat considerably into any revenue they may produce, and the heavy handed enforcement could have a negative effect on an already soft tourism industry.

The easiest way (politically & logistically) to refresh F&G's coffers is to have the legislature infuse it with cash from the general fund.

While the F&G Director was the first quasi-politician out of the gate attempting to influence the upcoming budget process by invoking public opinion, rest assured he will not be the last!

[phoenix]

all departments are asking for large increases in their budgets. will be an interesting session with leaders having been pro income tax while governor ran against any tax . don't see how tax on non motorized boats can be enforced and i don't think it has anything to do with being saved by fish and game. i bet they end up approving gaming as the compromise to raise income without a full tax increase

[The Big Kahuna]

Originally Posted by Tired of Waiting

This could get real interesting!!

How are they going to handle all the out of state boats?? When I come north I bring my boat, which is registered in MA. Then the canoe and kayaks. How will they handle these. Will the visitors have to purchase a special $?? decal before they put them into the water?

Then, how about all the camps for kids that have MANY canoes and sail boats. Will they have to purchase a decal for each of them.

Just one more thing for MP to police. Or would F&G have to police?

ToW

That is some great logistical thinking. We don't think of those things when we start offering partial solutions, I am as quilty as the next guy.

Well done.

[Woodsy]

On the much touted Lake George... you know that lake in NY with a speed limit but without a 150' rule.... well anyway, in order to boat on Lake george you are requred to purchase a conservation sticker.... the same goes for Lake Sebago in ME. They seemed to have figured out the logistics...

I have no problem spreading the burden amongst all of us.... powered and non-powered. I think a $5 add on for powerboats (because a portion of our registration already helps to fund MP) and a $10 add in for non-motorized craft is more than fair. The money should be split (not necessarily evenly) between MP and Fish & Game....

Woodsy

[phoenix]

Just got an e mail from Fish and Game with letter from their director with plea for more state money. This past summer a homeowners group on the other side of Green's basin from us had a request to get approval to spray for Milfoil( it is getting bad in green's basin). They got all the approvals and made all the public notices and at the last minute it was rejected by the director using inaccurate information and they never even visited the location. The association had already spent $1700 getting to the point they did which of course was wasted. They will try again next year since June is really the only time to use the chemicals and the rejection was too late to appeal. With the way they handled the incident , i am not sure i would want to give them more money

[Diver1111]

F&G's work extends into several VITAL areas beyond what we see them doing on the lake.

Home page/Read all of it before you shortchange them for seeking additional funding:
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/

Scope of their work:
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Insi...ion_duties.htm

Where the money goes:
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Insi...dG/funding.htm

For what it's worth I couldn't care less if they assess me $5-10-15-20 a year if it helps keep their work on track. It's absolute chump change. I have a good handle on the scope of what they do (I'm not sure everyone does) and lord knows I don't want to see it stopped or even cut back, no way. We're raping this planet in general and positive change begins and is maintained, right here where we live and work by agencies like F&G. I am no fan of government but like so many other things in life you have to work with it. I'm not saying some gripes here aren't legitimate re: F&G, but this agency needs help. Their work is so far reaching I don't even know where to begin-and boating is just one aspect. I hope they get what they need.

[JDeere]

SAVING OUR WILDLIFE LEGACY
By Lee E. Perry, Director, N.H. Fish and Game Department

Something everyone has a stake in -- the future of our state's wildlife and wild places -- is at risk. The guardian of these resources, the N.H. Fish and Game Department, will be out of money soon, unless its antiquated funding structure is changed. This financial crisis comes at a critical time, when New Hampshire is losing 18,000 acres of land to development each year, placing wildlife, habitat and outdoor recreational opportunities in jeopardy.

Fish and Game today is a modern wildlife agency responsible for conserving the state's fish, wildlife and marine resources -- a complex organization with an ever-expanding set of duties and mandates that benefits all New Hampshire's citizens and visitors. Our work protects open space, scenic beauty and wildlife resources that create jobs and fuel our economy as people enjoy these resources.

As has been widely reported, Fish and Game faces a financial shortfall because revenue is not keeping pace with the rising cost of doing business. The department works for everyone, but hunters and anglers in New Hampshire -- about a quarter of the state's population -- have always paid for the agency, and the benefits we provide, through license fees and Federal excise taxes on their equipment. The people of New Hampshire contribute $50,000 to Fish and Game each year from the General Fund as matching funds for nongame wildlife and habitat conservation -- just 3.8 cents per resident. The vast majority of New Hampshire's state agencies are supported almost entirely by the state's General Fund.

Across the U.S., fish and wildlife agencies are struggling to survive under the traditional funding model. Already, 31 states have changed how they fund their state wildlife agencies, to allow them to meet their missions without relying solely on hunting and fishing fees. Some get money from income or sales tax; others, including Vermont and Maine, from annual General Fund appropriations.

What can N.H. Fish and Game do to get on firm financial footing? As a stopgap measure, we've asked Governor Lynch to put $1.6 million per year of General Fund revenue into the Fish and Game budget in FY2008 and 2009. Without these funds as a temporary fix, we will have to lay off as many as 28 full-time workers and eliminate 36 part-time positions, as well as closing hatcheries and regional offices -- dramatically reducing our ability to serve New Hampshire.

In the past, we've coped with budget crunches by raising license fees, but that won't work this time. They're already the highest in New England; also, the data tell us that we'd lose money after another fee increase because participation would go down. The Fish and Game budget is bare-bones, totaling $27 million annually -- we've already eliminated staff and dug deep for possible efficiencies.

And so, we need a long-term plan. One proposed legislative strategy is to capture some of the $579 million that hunters, anglers and wildlife watchers pump into the state's economy each year by allocating a small part of the state rooms and meals tax to Fish and Game. Here's how it would work: Currently, hotel and restaurant patrons pay an 8% tax. Some of that money goes to the Department of Revenue to administer the program; what's left is divided between municipalities (40%) and the General Fund (60%). Fish and Game seeks to capture a small portion -- just 4% of the 60% that goes to the General Fund, or about $4.6 million. Since hunters, anglers and wildlife watchers pay about 7.4% of the total rooms and meals tax collected in New Hampshire -- more than $13 million annually -- we believe that it makes sense to reinvest some of the money into the resources that generate it.

Many citizens and media outlets seem to understand Fish and Game's need for a new revenue source, and have offered support. Even those who have criticized our approach acknowledge that everyone who benefits from Fish and Game's work should be asked to contribute. As a recent Concord Monitor editorial put it: "The truth is that everyone reaps rewards from the department's work, and that's true in spades in a tourist state like New Hampshire. If everyone benefits, everyone should pay."

In the coming months, the State Legislature will consider several measures to provide the funding needed to save New Hampshire's wildlife legacy. Their actions will determine not only the future of Fish and Game, but of the wildlife, woods and waters that add so much to our quality of life.

-###-

--
Copyright 2006 New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, 11 Hazen Drive,
Concord, NH 03301. Comments or questions concerning this list should
be directed to lpoinier@wildlife.state.nh.us.

[phoenix]

thanks diver i didn't know they did all that either. seems like many things they do should be funded from state revenues not just licences but as i said in a prior post most state agencies are asking for double digit budget increases so it will be interesting how this shakes out without a tax increase. nickel and dime use taxes can't fund everything. still think casino gambling will happen as a way to raise revenue without broad base tax