Red/White Marker Buoy - Revised Location

[Senter Cove Guy]

I sent the below email to NH Marine Patrol.

"I would like to report that I think the following red/white marker is out of position on Lake Winnipesaukee.
It is directly opposite the mouth of Twenty Mile Bay.

An older Bizer map has it positioned at the following approximate location:
N 43 39.813 W 71 17.858

My boat GPS has it positioned at the following approximate location:
N 43 39.815 W 71 17.885

I went by this marker a couple of nights ago and it appeared much closer to me than I thought it should have been which prompted me to look at it closely this afternoon. It appears to be perhaps as much as 180 feet too far west."

Here's what Marine Patrol told me:
"The marker is currently in the correct position. It was, however, moved westward to its current position a couple of years ago."

There's a shallow area near the buoy but no rocks. BUT, if you are using a plotter with an older chip, be aware that the buoy may not be where you think it is.

I have also informed Bizer.

[tis]

That's interesting because we have a buoy by our house that was maybe 75 feet closer to shore when we first lived here in 1984. A couple of weeks ago MP came in to do some repairs and I told him it had moved over the years and there were no rocks where it is. He informed me that they do it by GPS so it was correct. Of course back in the day who used GPS?

[Senter Cove Guy]

In the following 2018 thread, it appears to have been reported that the buoy in question had been decommissioned and removed by Marine Patrol:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=23002

Based upon the above, Bizer has removed the buoy from his maps printed in 2019.
The buoy does not mark any rocks. The depth around it is about 8 feet. The need for this buoy is questionable.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy

In the following 2018 thread, it appears to have been reported that the buoy in question had been decommissioned and removed by Marine Patrol:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=23002

Based upon the above, Bizer has removed the buoy from his maps printed in 2019.
The buoy does not mark any rocks. The depth around it is about 8 feet. The need for this buoy is questionable.

I remember this, and it was not there last year, and suddenly appeared back this year. There are several places on the lake where I question marker location, and need. This has always been one of them.

[Bizer]

Originally Posted by tis

That's interesting because we have a buoy by our house that was maybe 75 feet closer to shore when we first lived here in 1984. A couple of weeks ago MP came in to do some repairs and I told him it had moved over the years and there were no rocks where it is. He informed me that they do it by GPS so it was correct. Of course back in the day who used GPS?

I'm curious as to which buoy you are referring. Bizer usually comes to the lake in September to look for changes. I'd like to examine the location of this buoy.

There is a fair probability that the buoy had already drifted to its current, incorrect position when the GPS reading was made and recorded in their diary.

[BroadHopper]

The year we had a drought, I remember hitting ground at that spot trying to rescue another boat that hit ground. When water is high it is not a problem.

[Bizer]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The year we had a drought, I remember hitting ground at that spot trying to rescue another boat that hit ground. When water is high it is not a problem.

Bizer has been in that area on many occasions. In our 25 years of map making, we have never found anything less than eight feet deep in the area. Therefore, there is no blue tint on Bizer's map in that area. Did we miss something?

Bizer has a standing reward of $250 for anyone who can pinpoint the location of a shallow area that Bizer has overlooked. If you can pinpoint any place that is less than six feed deep (at normal fall height) that Bizer has failed to mark with blue tint, you would qualify for this reward. In the past twenty years, Bizer has paid $1250 to those who have helped Bizer to correct and maintain the most accurate map of Lake Winnipesaukee.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by Bizer

Bizer has been in that area on many occasions. In our 25 years of map making, we have never found anything less than eight feet deep in the area. Therefore, there is no blue tint on Bizer's map in that area. Did we miss something?

Bizer has a standing reward of $250 for anyone who can pinpoint the location of a shallow area that Bizer has overlooked. If you can pinpoint any place that is less than six feed deep (at normal fall height) that Bizer has failed to mark with blue tint, you would qualify for this reward. In the past twenty years, Bizer has paid $1250 to those who have helped Bizer to correct and maintain the most accurate map of Lake Winnipesaukee.

I questioned the marker at 20 Mile Bay this Spring. Took depth soundings and it was 8' deep. Probably closer to 6.5' now.

I also reported last Fall on the Western side of Farm Island the water is very shallow with rocks. This is on the West side. Not in the NWZ where there are markers for rocks. Last Fall I was sailing by the island and my keel hit several times. I couldn't believe the large shallow area. And I have been sailing that area for years. But never as close to the the shoreline as I was.
My Cape dory only draws 3'6". My best guess is that some of the rocks are within 150' and others are just beyond 150' from Farm Island shoreline. I will take a GPS sounding and report back.

[Roy_Hobbs]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

I questioned the marker at 20 Mile Bay this Spring. Took depth soundings and it was 8' deep. Probably closer to 6.5' now.

I also reported last Fall on the Western side of Farm Island the water is very shallow with rocks. This is on the West side. Not in the NWZ where there are markers for rocks. Last Fall I was sailing by the island and my keel hit several times. I couldn't believe the large shallow area. And I have been sailing that area for years. But never as close to the the shoreline as I was.
My Cape dory only draws 3'6". My best guess is that some of the rocks are within 150' and others are just beyond 150' from Farm Island shoreline. I will take a GPS sounding and report back.

Were you on the Farm Island side of the two black buoys within that NWZ? There is definitely an extremely shallow area right between Farm and Chase, but it’s on the Farm side of the buoys.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by Roy_Hobbs

Were you on the Farm Island side of the two black buoys within that NWZ? There is definitely an extremely shallow area right between Farm and Chase, but it’s on the Farm side of the buoys.

Sorry Roy you didn't read my post quite right. I said it is not in the NWZ where there are black markers identifying rocks. What I am identifying are rocks on the WEST side of Farm island. Not the North side which is the NWZ. There is a red/white marker at the very SW side of Farm Island just before Camp Belknap. It you were to travel from that red/white marker in a North direction along the West side of Farm just about half to 3/4 way toward the NWZ you will come upon a very large area that is shallow with rocks. The area extends all the way into the shore line on Farm. Again most of the rocks are within 150' of shore. Then there could be rocks extending beyond 150'. When the winds die down I will take a GPS reading.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by tis

That's interesting because we have a buoy by our house that was maybe 75 feet closer to shore when we first lived here in 1984. A couple of weeks ago MP came in to do some repairs and I told him it had moved over the years and there were no rocks where it is. He informed me that they do it by GPS so it was correct. Of course back in the day who used GPS?

And this is a perfect example of what is going on around us.

The marker is in the right place because GPS says so, and submerged rocks are of no concern so long as they can match up the marker with the GPS coordinates.

There is clearly something wrong when the electronics and the marker align and thus are correct and it is the rock that is in the wrong place,,,

How do you fix that perspective.

Oh, I know, make everyone wear rubber boots, face masks, ear & nose plugs and keep out all visitors and make residents move away and your problem is solved.

We are living in odd times, sure hope we all survive this.

[Senter Cove Guy]

I was out today and the red/white buoy that was in location N 43 39.815 W 71 17.885 last year IS NOT there anymore. Chances are that Marine Patrol has once again retired this buoy as there is nothing there except an 8 foot depth.