Personal Ski Machine

[Seaplane Pilot]

I’m thinking of buying one of these. Wondering if there are any laws, rules or restrictions against such a device in NH?

http://www.solowatersports.com/

[tis]

Sorry, SP. I think you might have a hard time getting a spotter in that. But if you just want to drive it around without a skier you might be ok.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by tis

Sorry, SP. I think you might have a hard time getting a spotter in that. But if you just want to drive it around without a skier you might be ok.

I’ve trained my pet monkey to spot! Will do a much better job than some of the morons I’ve seen out there lately. But seriously, no spotter required with this gizmo.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I’ve trained my pet monkey to spot! Will do a much better job than some of the morons I’ve seen out there lately. But seriously, no spotter required with this gizmo.

Maybe not but unfortunately NH does. That thing is very cool.


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[webmaster]

[fatlazyless]

With a $309 dry suit from www.mythicdrysuits.com in Maine, you could be solo skiing that thing from labor day to Christmas ..... and get good with it when there's little to no other boats out there ...... hope you get one!

Specs: size 4'x8'x29"high, weight 675-lbs, engine 150-hp, holds 8-gal gasoline, price- $17,000

Is so totally much more happening than a quiet electric stand up paddle board that goes along at 4-mph.

.....woopsie-doopsie .....that video says it is 70-hp, and it looks smaller than 4'x8', so this is probably a smaller model.....that's seems right...a 70-hp modern two-stroke engine for towing a skier/boarder ..... 70-hp seems like a lot of power

.....oops again .....it is 150-hp and here's a link ...... www.solowatersports.com/customer_reviews ...... for $17,000 it should come with Pam Anderson as a spotter and instructor ..... wearing her red Bay Watch swim suit .... '"just bend your knees and let the boat pull you up!"

..... you gotta get one ..... go for it ..... will it tow a 325-lb skier going barefoot skiing at 40-mph?

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I’m thinking of buying one of these. Wondering if there are any laws, rules or restrictions against such a device in NH?

http://www.solowatersports.com/

Personally, I think it's a great idea. However, in this PC society we live in today, where everything is about your safety, and other's around you, it probably will not be allowed. Even if there are NO rules and regulations concerning these machines on the books right now, it's only a matter of time before there will be, I would think. The first thing I thought of was the "spotter" law. That's the FIRST thing you have to get around somehow... I would do a lot of "research" before I invested in one, to make sure that you could use it without fear of it being banned now, or anytime in the near future. I would think that the people that have developed this thing, would have thought about of all this in advance of investing in, and designing them. Maybe they have the answer's you are looking for. Definitely worth a phone call...

[FlyingScot]

Pretty cool. But yipes! You're supposed to watch where the drone is going and you're going simultaneously, and you're 50'(?) apart? Even before you get to the spotter question, that seems pretty tricky. Note that the video is shot in an open unoccupied area.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Pretty cool. But yipes! You're supposed to watch where the drone is going and you're going simultaneously, and you're 50'(?) apart? Even before you get to the spotter question, that seems pretty tricky. Note that the video is shot in an open unoccupied area.

Like anything else, would just take a little practice!!! I think it's a great idea, but I would be very surprised if they were "welcomed" on the lake...

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Like anything else, would just take a little practice!!! I think it's a great idea, but I would be very surprised if they were "welcomed" on the lake...

....oh, come on ..... is somewhat similar to the very popular jetski or personal water craft except is basically a waterski/wakeboard tow that's controlled by the skier/boarder

...... looks great ..... looks like fun...... could be a popular item depending on the price?


..... for tennis, one can get a tennis ball machine ..... so for skiing/boarding..... a towing vessel controlled by the tow handle

[Descant]

I think they said it in the video. "It's a PWC... no spotter needed" Existing PWC laws/regs should be the governing factor. They seem to have built in some good safety features.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Descant

I think they said it in the video. "It's a PWC... no spotter needed" Existing PWC laws/regs should be the governing factor. They seem to have built in some good safety features.

I agree. Spotter requirements for boats do not apply to this device. What’s the difference between this and operating a PWC? I’m going to order one for next season.

[DickR]

My biggest concern would be the similarity to texting while driving a car. When a skier/wake boarder is focused on his own movements over the water and waves, how much attention is he actually (not claiming) giving to where the boat drone is headed? How well can he see immediately after water spray has doused him?

[camp guy]

Very cool!! But, I agree with Cal Coon, definitely worth a phone call to totally be sure if is "allowed" under current MP practices.

With the pending arrival of driverless autos, and now a driverless ski boat, what's next ? - a food service that will order food for you, then eat it for you, then text you with a message telling you how much you enjoyed it? AI is taking over.

[tis]

SP, you don't need a spotter for kite water skiing. I don't know if I have ever seen anybody do it on the lake. Would this be considered the same? I almost bet if you call MP they won't be able to answer you. The outcome of this will be very interesting.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by tis

SP, you don't need a spotter for kite water skiing. I don't know if I have ever seen anybody do it on the lake. Would this be considered the same? I almost bet if you call MP they won't be able to answer you. The outcome of this will be very interesting.

Excellent observation, tis! I’m not calling Marine Patrol, but rather will just buy it and use it. If I get stopped and cited, then it will get challenged in court (and I will win).

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by camp guy

Very cool!! But, I agree with Cal Coon, definitely worth a phone call to totally be sure if is "allowed" under current MP practices.

With the pending arrival of driverless autos, and now a driverless ski boat, what's next ? - a food service that will order food for you, then eat it for you, then text you with a message telling you how much you enjoyed it? AI is taking over.

Yes it is, and IMHO, I'm not to crazy about it. I'm "old school". I like doing (most) things for myself. I still have a "flip phone", and it's all I will ever need. Big tech is going too far for my liking. Too many people getting to lazy and stupid. Everybody just wants to push a button for everything in their life these days!! Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... However, some things are cool. I do like the concept of this personal ski machine. It allows for one to be "independent", and I think that's a good thing.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Yes it is, and IMHO, I'm not to crazy about it. I'm "old school". I like doing (most) things for myself. I still have a "flip phone", and it's all I will ever need. Big tech is going too far for my liking. Too many people getting to lazy and stupid. Everybody just wants to push a button for everything in their life these days!! Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... However, some things are cool. I do like the concept of this personal ski machine. It allows for one to be "independent", and I think that's a good thing.

Yes, being independent is the main point. I’d use it first thing in the morning when the water is flat and like glass, and there’s little boat traffic. Trying to get 3 people together at that hour is never easy. This solves all those problems.

[upthesaukee]

I saw two listings for this item and at $17, 000 , that seems like an expensive "gee, I think I'll buy one of these and then see if it's legal" personal toy. I can bribe two friends to get up early several times for 17k.

Dave

[TiltonBB]

From the NH Boating Guide:

Towing a Person With a Vessel Legally:

Vessel operators towing a person(s) on water skis, tubes, kneeboards, aquaplanes, or any other devices also must obey these laws.

In addition to the operator, an observer must be on board to observe the progress of the person being towed. The observer must be at least 13 years old, able to determine when a skier is in trouble, and able to assist the skier.

I would be very surprised if the Marine Patrol, and the court, do not find that this did not comply with the current laws. There may be some changes needed in the law to consider these "vessels" but the existing laws do not anticipate something like this.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

From the NH Boating Guide:

Towing a Person With a Vessel Legally:

Vessel operators towing a person(s) on water skis, tubes, kneeboards, aquaplanes, or any other devices also must obey these laws.

In addition to the operator, an observer must be on board to observe the progress of the person being towed. The observer must be at least 13 years old, able to determine when a skier is in trouble, and able to assist the skier.

I would be very surprised if the Marine Patrol, and the court, do not find that this did not comply with the current laws. There may be some changes needed in the law to consider these "vessels" but the existing laws do not anticipate something like this.

Thanks for the link Tilton--I would have let this go, but your quote makes it fun. I agree that these vessels were not contemplated, but I disagree with your interpretation on the letter of the law.

SP (the skier) is clearly the operator of the vessel--he is doing so by remote control. Then, in addition to the operator, there must be someone observing the skier.

So my take is that although the law may allow SP to operate and ski simultaneously, it does not allow him to observe while doing either of the other activities.

Ironic that the easier of the two on board tasks is the is one that hangs up the idea. But if you really think about the towing rules, you can see that this whole idea--although very cool in theory--is against the general spirit of having multiple people paying attention.

[Garcia]

Their website says it is legal in 41 states, Guam, Puerto Rico, and Washington DC. Is NH, Live Free or Die, one of the 41?

[Descant]

The key here is that this is a PWC, not a boat pulling a skier. We have no need for an observer on a PWC although everything else is similar to the personal ski machine.
BTW, there are certain slalom courses and boats where an observer is not required. Don't quote the law until you have read the entire RSA in its most recent version. And be sure you are quoting the right section, PWC vs skiers.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Descant

We have no need for an observer on a PWC...

From my research, I don't think this is accurate. The Boat-Ed rules for PWC say, "Remember…

PWC operators are subject to all boating laws. In addition, “ski craft” operators must follow the laws on these pages." This extra laws are on timing and size of area to be used in.

As for legality, I concur with the posts above that this would be considered illegal without a spotter. I would need to take a hard look at the system to decide if there would be sufficient safety systems in place to justify legal language changes.

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[jazzman]

I don't think I'd want to be on a kayak in the vicinity of this thing. It's got to be tough for the operator to see someone at water level while skiing with this 50 feet in front of them.

[kawishiwi]

I think the controller of one of these is both the skier & spotter at the same time. They ski & drive.
The reason for a spotter is to tell the boat capt. what the skier is doing so the capt. can focus on driving. A skier needs the capt & spotter so they can signal to the capt, through the spotter. Clearly in this case the "controller/driver" has a quite intimate and immediate understanding of how the skier is doing. Self spotting? Yes. Self driving? Yes. While skiing? Yes.
Strongest arguments against would be kill switch & concerns that a skier can maintain effective "driving" awareness.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

Strongest arguments against would be kill switch & concerns that a skier can maintain effective "driving" awareness.

"Driving" awareness is exactly the reason for a spotter requirement--essentially, the law assumes (correctly?) that a person cannot drive AND spot safely.

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[Tank151]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I’m thinking of buying one of these. Wondering if there are any laws, rules or restrictions against such a device in NH?

http://www.solowatersports.com/

Please buy a boat!

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

"Driving" awareness is exactly the reason for a spotter requirement--essentially, the law assumes (correctly?) that a person cannot drive AND spot safely.

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Apples to...not apples. A capt is supposed to look ahead to operate safely, not back to the skier, hence the need for a spotter to inform the capt. of the skiers status. Capt cant know how the skier is doing and pay attention to driving. The solo skier/driver never has to look back. They are fully self aware of their own skiing status. There is no capt. to inform of their staus and therefor no need for a spotter at all to inform a capt. Essentially the spotter has one purpose, communication between capt & skier. If the capt is the skiier there is no need for a middleman.
However there is a question as to how well can one person ski WHILE ALSO being capt. of a waterborn drone.
Skiing up right, facing forward, at a slow to moderate speed, I think it can be done safely. While wake jumping, doing spins, tricks...not so much.

[tis]

Unless he gets hurt, Kawishiwi. Then there is no driver OR spotter to help. So that brings up our age old questions-how many laws do we need to protect ourselves? A lot I guess. SP, if you are skiing early in the morning with no traffic somebody should be watching to make sure you are ok. If you are skiing when there is traffic it might be tricky to maneuver. The up side is somebody would help you if you needed help.

[Seaplane Pilot]

As tis mentioned in a prior post, what's the difference between the ski machine and kite boarding? No spotter needed with kite boarding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0A1suBPSoY

As far as being injured or something else happening that would be useful to have a spotter or someone watching: What if I'm out on an SUP by myself and I fell and hit my head on the board? No difference really.

And a previous poster mentioned being concerned if they were in a kayak while I'm out there getting towed around. As I've said before on this forum, ALL kayaks should be required to fly a safety flag - period. Otherwise, the options are 1) don't go out; 2) stay close to shore; 3) paddle faster!

I've been in touch with the factory this morning to check on lead time and ordering process so I can take delivery next spring. Can't wait.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by tis

Unless he gets hurt, Kawishiwi. Then there is no driver OR spotter to help. So that brings up our age old questions-how many laws do we need to protect ourselves? A lot I guess. SP, if you are skiing early in the morning with no traffic somebody should be watching to make sure you are ok. If you are skiing when there is traffic it might be tricky to maneuver. The up side is somebody would help you if you needed help.

I can go out on my JET SKI with nobody watching. Both machines have a shut off if I fall. In fact, the one that SP brought forward will circle back to the operator. A traditional PWC will not do that. Both have the same risk if I am injured.
BTW, if you read RSA 270 where it talks about jet skis, it refers to size, etc and then says... and similar devices. I think this is already covered.
There would be restrictions in small coves where a PWC has to go at headway speed to get to open water. Head way speed for a skier can be very tiring, and you have to do it outbound and on return. This is a great option for those on a 300-1000 acre lake, and certain areas of larger lakes.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I've been in touch with the factory this morning to check on lead time and ordering process so I can take delivery next spring. Can't wait.

I thought you were just kidding about this!! Good for you! I can't wait to see one in action!

Dan

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by tis

Unless he gets hurt, Kawishiwi. Then there is no driver OR spotter to help. So that brings up our age old questions-how many laws do we need to protect ourselves? A lot I guess. SP, if you are skiing early in the morning with no traffic somebody should be watching to make sure you are ok. If you are skiing when there is traffic it might be tricky to maneuver. The up side is somebody would help you if you needed help.

Well solo anything has that risk. A PFD is a must.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I thought you were just kidding about this!! Good for you! I can't wait to see one in action!

Dan

I'll give you a heads-up and will do some Welch Island fly-bys next year!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I've been in touch with the factory this morning to check on lead time and ordering process so I can take delivery next spring. Can't wait.

I'd rather see a bunch of these things on the lake than more wakeboard boats

I have always wondered why these units have not caught on. I first recall seeing one at a boat show ~30 years ago, but have only ever come across one on the water twice since then.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I'd rather see a bunch of these things on the lake than more wakeboard boats

I have always wondered why these units have not caught on. I first recall seeing one at a boat show ~30 years ago, but have only ever come across one on the water twice since then.

Just for the record, I'm not against these at all, just interpreting the law per the OP's initial request. I agree on the wake boats.

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[Descant]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I'll give you a heads-up and will do some Welch Island fly-bys next year!

Plenty of room on my beach, south side.

[The Real BigGuy]

I think one of these would be great but at 17k I’ll never have a chance to try one. I agreebut with thinkxingu on his assessment in #28 but also that the MP will say it violates regs. To bad!!


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[fatlazyless]

From the 'Gadget Show - world tour', an English film production

'California: Solo Ski' ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAunXGWQgMw ... 4:54, filmed 7 years ago

Specs from video; length of tow vessel; 8' fiberglass

3-cylinder, 70-hp two stroke engine with a jet discharge

40-mph top speed (on very calm water): The male demonstrator in the film says the typical speed for wake boarding is 20-mph.

Price as shown in film: 4654 English pounds or $5648 U.S. dollars (?) per seven years ago

Robin Sells, Pacific Watercraft Group, Newcastle, Washington sells and makes the Solo Ski ....www.solowatersports.com/ .....unless it's made for them in China or somewhere, who knows?

SF-70: 70-hp two stroke from above you tube ....... 375-lbs ...... $5648 (?) seven years ago price

SF-150: 150-hp four stroke with wake wedge for big wakes ...... 675-lbs ....... $17000.

[Cal Coon]

I think the biggest drawback to this personal ski machine would be having to find, and swim to your rope after you fall. Not an easy task with a water ski, (or two), or a wake board, on your foot/feet. I would think that would use up A LOT of energy. Obviously, the easy answer is: don't fall, but this is the real world, and even an excellent skier will fall periodically learning how to use this thing. And falling at 30, or 40mph, that handle could end up pretty far away from you!!! Still, a pretty cool toy when mastered. Unless of course, there is some sort of (waterproof) remote control you can keep in a specially designed pocket of your life vest, (for EASY access), to get it to circle around you with little to NO effort on your part to get that handle back in your hands... Maybe they have thought of everything!!

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

I think the biggest drawback to this personal ski machine would be having to find, and swim to your rope after you fall. Not an easy task with a water ski, (or two), or a wake board, on your foot/feet. I would think that would use up A LOT of energy. Obviously, the easy answer is: don't fall, but this is the real world, and even an excellent skier will fall periodically learning how to use this thing. And falling at 30, or 40mph, that handle could end up pretty far away from you!!! Still, a pretty cool toy when mastered. Unless of course, there is some sort of (waterproof) remote control you can keep in a specially designed pocket of your life vest, (for EASY access), to get it to circle around you with little to NO effort on your part to get that handle back in your hands... Maybe they have thought of everything!!

You’re right, it does have a feature that will bring the machine right back to you if you fall.

http://www.solowatersports.com/sf_150

[fatlazyless]

Removing the water ski, skis, or wake board and swimming the breast or side stroke while pushing the ski, skis, board out in front of you is the way to go .... to catch up to the tow vessel, presumably stopped up ahead.

Before using a solo ski by yourself, you should be able to swim at least 200-yards in open, deep, choppy, rough, 68-degree water without a pfd or swimmer's belt or wet suit top to qualify yourself, for your personal water safety with a personal water ski. NH law requires everyone to wear a CG-pfd while skiing and a water ski belt is not legal, even though it is a lot easier to swim with a ski belt than to swim with a pfd. Ski belts center one's buoyancy which is best for swimming, while a pfd keeps your head and shoulders up top the water, not so good for swimming any more than a short distance, like 25-yards.

There's no friendly, helpful driver and spotter in the tow vessel to assist you, out there. It's just you, yourself, and the big lake. I suppose one could sit atop the vessel, and paddle it with a water ski or a wake board if you have some problem.

Both the male and female British demonstrators in the film are both wearing large helmets which is way more than a lot of motorcyclists wear here in NH?

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Removing the water ski, skis, or wake board and swimming the breast or side stroke while pushing the ski, skis, board out in front of you is the way to go .... to catch up to the tow vessel, presumably stopped up ahead.

Before using a solo ski by yourself, you should be able to swim at least 200-yards in open, deep, choppy, rough, 68-degree water without a pfd or swimmer's belt or wet suit top to qualify yourself, for your personal water safety with a personal water ski. NH law requires everyone to wear a CG-pfd while skiing and a water ski belt is not legal, even though it is a lot easier to swim with a ski belt than to swim with a pfd. Ski belts center one's buoyancy which is best for swimming, while a pfd keeps your head and shoulders up top the water, not so good for swimming any more than a short distance, like 25-yards.

There's no friendly, helpful driver and spotter in the tow vessel to assist you, out there. It's just you, yourself, and the big lake. I suppose one could sit atop the vessel, and paddle it with a water ski or a wake board if you have some problem.

Both the male and female British demonstrators in the film are both wearing large helmets which is way more than a lot of motorcyclists wear here in NH?

So as a prerequisite you should probably be a Navy Seal!!! lol

[fatlazyless]

Before they were named Seals, they were called frogmen ..... and yes, you really want to be a strong swimmer and wear the required CG-pfd, and maybe a helmet, with the solo ski.

200-yards is eight laps in the 25-yard swim pool at Plymouth State University, in the field house, across from the Citgo Gas at Exit 25, and the pool water temp there is about 70-degrees. Swimming 200-yards out in the big lake can be much, much, much more difficult than swimming same distance in a pool for a bunch of reasons.

So's, with the totally, totally, incredible, fabulous, fantastic $17,000, 675-lb SF-150 model with a 150-hp four-stroke and a wake wedge for making big wakes and remotely controlled from a wireless control remote ...... it can be used with a wake board .... with no tow rope.

Reading the NH ski tow law that requires a spotter and a driver ...... by not having a tow rope and just riding the wave ...... the spotter/driver requirement probably does not apply since there's no tow rope and the boarder is not physically attached to a tow boat ...... it is riding the wake wave ...... therefore, the law does not apply.

If there ain't no rope, that law is a dope ......... a rope-a-dope!

What do you think ....... Professor? .........

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

So as a prerequisite you should probably be a Navy Seal!!! lol

As a prerequisite, you should watch the video that explains all this. Sheesh!

[fatlazyless]

For $17000, the bigger 150-hp model should definitely come with Pam Anderson, wearing her red Bay Watch lifeguard swim suit with 16-hours of solo ski instruction classes included in price. Will definitely help build product sales, providing instructor help to first time users.

[Newbiesaukee]

No skin in this game, but I would want to be certain that ones liability insurance would cover this craft.

It is a brave person whose general position is, I’m right so sue me.

[fatlazyless]

Just learned that Gadget Show-world tour video was made seven years ago, and the price $5648 for the 70-hp two stroke is from seven years ago.

So, what's the real 2019 price for the 70-hp model and when will Ocean State Job Lot in Meredith be selling these for $3994 plus 500-coming back to buyer in crazy cash?

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Descant

As a prerequisite, you should watch the video that explains all this. Sheesh!

I did watch one video, and I didn't see anything about it coming back to you by remote control after a fall, but I could have left the video early too, (I don't remember now), cause I'm not really all that interested in these things. Cool little gadget, but not my cup of tea. I was just joking (obviously) about the Navy Seal. Have you no sense of humor???

[fatlazyless]

It's the 150-hp, $17000 model that says it has a return to fallen skier feature, and the 70-hp model with the unknown price that's shown in the Gadget Show-world tour from seven years ago has a kill switch lanyard but no self return.

Makes you a better skier/boarder knowing you will be swimming maybe 50-yards return to tow line, every time you fall. Is a very big lake when you is swimming out there, all alone, wearing a pfd. One could actually wear both a pfd and a noodle belt, both at same time, and remove the pfd for better swimming with noodle belt after falling, and still be legal .... a genius solution!

You probably get better exercise out of the coincidental swimming than with the intended skiing/boarding.

Is possible to swim 100-yards with hands bound, and with feet bound by swimming like a hippopotamus.

Question: will Allstate, Geico, or Progressive sell liability coverage for the 70-hp Solo Ski that is very similar or same price as their standard jet ski-pwc policy? I doubt it?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Just got this press info about a Ski Bob. Looks cool! So....., what's the opinion on a spotter requirement for this device?

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/v...ed-seabob-f5-s

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Just got this press info about a Ski Bob. Looks cool! So....., what's the opinion on a spotter requirement for this device?

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/v...ed-seabob-f5-s

.... http://www.citimarinestore.com/citig...bob-price-list ...... just do it ..... Winnipesaukee needs a Sea Bob in every cove and every bay!

And, for $309 you can get a very high quality drysuit from www.mythicdrysuits.com in Maine and go Sea Bobbing from now till Christmas!

Performs on the water surface or way down deep, under the water with a scuba tank ..... so, What About Bob?

[Descant]

Looks like fun and more my skill level than the personal ski machine. No spotter required, but you need a Diver Down flag if you go underwater, I guess. I think they said they were on Martha's Vineyard. Is 14 mph enough to outrun a shark?