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Old 08-16-2005, 08:44 PM   #1
Tacit Blue
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Default Bahre Estate

I came across a very impressive piece of property a few weeks ago. There was a picture of it in the photo section that identified it as the Bahre Estate. Is this the same family that owns the racetrack in Loudon? I know he has a home in Maine with a pretty impressive car collection I'm told. I was wondering if it's the same person. It gets my vote as one of the nicest homes on the lake.


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Old 08-16-2005, 08:52 PM   #2
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Default You are correct

It is the Loudon Race Track owner.
It only takes $35M to build the nicest home on the lake.
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:29 AM   #3
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Talking You would never knowit if you met him....

If you ever met Mr Bahre, you would never know he had made that kind of a fortune in auto racing. He started out at Oxford Speedway in Maine, sold that and built the now infamous New Hampshire International Speedway and attract 2 NASCAR races plus a host of other races. Nice to see a man make his money the old fashioned way.....he EARNED it.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:56 AM   #4
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IMHO, its an eyesore.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:01 AM   #5
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I do love a good success story! Self-made man -excellent.

The house, however, is a scar on the beauty of the lake. I hope when all is done, he will have some major plantings done between the house and the water - it's just too much of an eyesore the way it is now.

Don't get me wrong - the house itself is incredible (has anyone noticed the "tunnel" to walk to his son's house next door, with the waterfalll?). It's the effect it has in general on the view of the shoreline I don't care for.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:42 AM   #6
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Prior to being divided up into aprox 8 mansion lots, that property was Camp Alton, a boy's camp, from aprox 1937-1992, and prior to that, a horse farm. Sometime in the mid 1990's the voters of Alton voted no to purchasing Camp Alton and making it a town park. Supposedly, it was sold to a real estate developer with a conservation easement but the easement was not too effective.

Does anyone know any of the story about this easement or the town vote like an old newspaper article or some attorney's recollection?
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:32 AM   #7
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According to www.nhdeeds.com Robert, Gary and Sandra Bahre purchased property from Camp Alton Inc and Roberts Cove Inc in 1995. There was no obvious conservation easement on the deed. That doesn't mean it's not listed separately, I really didn't look.

Last edited by jrc; 08-17-2005 at 09:32 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-17-2005, 12:54 PM   #8
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Unhappy Lived here all my life....

....There are PLENTY of eyesores on the lake. I have lived here for 40 years (all my life), so you can imagine how much the lake has changed in that time. There is a ton of eyesore material around the lake, but I have made a nice life for my family here off the money the eyesore-owners spend here. The area is thriving like never before and lots of money is being spent. I guess the eyesores have to come sooner or later. I just don't like folks thinking they own the water that their eyesore borders. It was here way before you were, and will be when you are gone.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:33 PM   #9
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Thumbs up thank you Mr Bahre

I, for one, thank Mr Bahre for boosting Alton's economy and providing a greatly needed service by developing a Hannaford at the traffic circle.

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Old 08-17-2005, 03:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Hampshire Native
....There are PLENTY of eyesores on the lake. I have lived here for 40 years (all my life), so you can imagine how much the lake has changed in that time. There is a ton of eyesore material around the lake, but I have made a nice life for my family here off the money the eyesore-owners spend here. The area is thriving like never before and lots of money is being spent. I guess the eyesores have to come sooner or later. I just don't like folks thinking they own the water that their eyesore borders. It was here way before you were, and will be when you are gone.

It's only been 20 years for me, and with the amount of change I've seen, I can only imagine what you've seen in 40. I know, and accept, that change is inevitable. But change can be managed properly. I of course understand progress, expansion, etc., but it can be done in a fashion that is more respectful of the natural beauty of things, I prefer that. That's all. No feeling of "owning the lake". Just a preference and a hope.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:20 PM   #11
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Mr. Bahre is the largest taxpayer in the town of Alton, so the town has much for which to be thankful. He is also being instrumental in bring about already mentioned Hannaford with pharmacy and the Meridith bank. (Sidebar: Site work has started over the last week or so, with the access road to be about half way from the circle to Gemini Century 21.

The Clay point property is somewhere between gawdy and a marvel, depending on how I am feeling on any given day. I am noticing the property is greening in considerably and while I don't think it will ever "screen" the property from the lake, it is making it perhaps a little less obtrusive.

Another sidebar: the article in the citizen about the Laconia Airport mentioned that the rental car place at the airport rented something like 145 cars on Race weekend. At $40 to $80 or more per vehicle per day, that's just for the vehicles, and then there was gas bought, and there was food and lodging, and there was the State Liquor Store, and there was...

As with a lot of the conversations about McMansions, with these properties, besides the obvious tax benefit, there are a lot of entertaining, and corresponding spending of money. And any business people in the area have an appreciation for what they spend.

So, thanks Mr. Bahre for all you do in the area, and I guess I can look the other way once in a while.

Oh yeah, and about everytime someone brings up trying to find property for a new town beach, someone else will bring up "Well, you had your chance with Camp Alton and blew it".
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:43 PM   #12
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Post Yup, Up!

He's made Loudon, NH. much Louder, as well.

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Old 08-17-2005, 09:19 PM   #13
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Btw, the only beach area at Camp Alton was at the back of the cove, and at the opposite end of the property from Clay Point and the Bahre mansion. It is a somewhat small beach, too. The rest of the Camp Alton shoreline was, is, rocky and steep. So, a nice natural beach, or any beach at all, is not to be found at the Bahre mansion. All the shoreline around Clay Point has a rocky bottom. No sugar sand, just pristine rocks! Ellecoya State Park is the best public beach around and has excellent sand and a bargain at whatever it costs, like maybe $3.00(?).
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:27 PM   #14
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...its still an eyesore.
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:43 PM   #15
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Exclamation

I am sure you will find a lot of people are feeling he is buying his way into Alton the same he bought his way into Loudon. If he builds them a shopping mall they won't feel so bad about him defacing their shoreline. Look at all he did for (or to) Loudon. He bought outright, a 100 ft ladder fire truck for a town that doesn't have a building over two stories tall. He has paved some roads and brought some revenue to town. I am sure the hundreds of people that can't leave or return to their own house when his racetrack closes down Rte 106 twice a year are just loving him to death. Not to mention the people that have to wear earplugs most of the summer weekends, I bet they're just lining up to kiss his feet. He has made his fortune to build that mansion the old fashion way....by gouging you people for those Hundred dollar seats and triple priced beer and food. You people built that house. He is not a God, he is not going to give anyone something with no strings attached, and not expect something in return. Think about it.
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:12 AM   #16
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Default Bahre is a good businessman

I find it strange to call it "gouging" when a price is set for a business service and people obviously find that price acceptable, as evidenced by full seats and the traffic generated. Racing is a leisure purchase. No one is forced to attend races. (BTW the ticket prices I saw were $25 - $40). I don't think I've ever been to a sporting or entertainment event that didn't charge vastly inflated prices for food and drinks.

I don't go to races but I checked out the NHIS website. Two of the upcoming events are charity events, D.A.R.E. and a race for leukemia. Is Mr. Bahre making some money on these events? Possibly, but the sponsors must also benefit. I think it is very cynical to reduce someone's motives for helping out a community to simply "buying your way into a community". I'm sure that Mr. Bahre would like the good will of his community and neighbors. What's wrong with that? When you buy someone a present isn't a part of the motivation the hope that the recipient will appreciate the gift and be pleasant to you in return.

Mr Bahre created a very successful business in Loudon. As with almost any business, there are costs and benefits. Traffic and noise are costs. Employment, reduced property taxes, and sponsorship of community activities are benefits. Communities that keep businesses out to avoid the costs associated with development often struggle to finance their schools and infrastructure. They then turn to others to "help them out". They try to get the benefits of commercial activity, the generation of assets, without paying the associated costs. I'd prefer a community to accept the costs associated with business development to reap the benefits. Loudon has done this. Mr. Bahre seems to have a reasonably good working relationship with the town and the state and has established a national presence of NH in the racing community. That's not a bad thing.

Having said all that, I'm not that impressed with the house. It looks more like a hotel than a residence. But it's his choice. I also wish he would add more trees along the shore. Maybe someone who knows him could ask him to consider it.
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Old 08-18-2005, 04:32 AM   #17
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Angry Too bad you hadn't thought of it....

Aqua is just upset he wasn't smart enough to consider buying the, then cheap, Bryar racetrack and constructing a mega facility that created ALL of this wealth. You could say the same about the Red Sox, The Patriots, Boat Dealers, Car Manufacturers or any other business that makes millions (and billions) of dollars a year, helps out the community with charity and, yes, makes a very lare profit by the smart owners of these businesses. SOMEONE had to be smart enough to start and market these places and businesses. Don't be mad because flipping burgers is what you decided to do instead of creating or buying a business that could give you an eyesore on the lake. And the taxes that come into the communities these eyesores sit on is the NUMBER ONE reason they are allowed to built and crammed into every nook and cranny on the lake. I hope I live to be 80, so I can see not one foot of shoreline left where a house isn't built. I am sure by then you will be able to build a platform and put a second house over the original to have TWO property owners owning the same chunk of real estate. That will be beautiful.
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJM
"...It's the effect it has in general on the view of the shoreline I don't care for...."
In today's Citizen, these excerpts:
Quote:
The Belknap County Superior Court ruled that [DES] must start enforcing the Comprehensive Shoreland Protection Act....DES repeatedly issued permits for dug-in boathouses along the banks of Lakes such as Squam, Sunapee, and Winnipesaukee with little regard for the protections under the act.

Dug-in boathouses require extensive excavation into the shore, which increases run-off, sedimentary deposits, and an overabundance of nutrients in lake waters.
Does the region also need another racetrack in the Ossipee foothills [literally]above Sandwich?

Personally, it's like selling a kidney. It may make you rich, but....
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Old 08-18-2005, 06:13 AM   #19
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Default NH Native...

Aren't you being a little harsh? What's up with the "flipping burgers" comment?

And do you really want to live to see every inch of shoreline covered with houses?

The most beautiful parts of the lake are the areas where there are no houses.

I'm guess somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.


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Old 08-18-2005, 07:53 AM   #20
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some different perspectives on what has been posted in this thread. I do not begrudge Mr. Bahre & the Bahre family, good for them that they are a success. However, no matter what he has accomplished or whatever he has done for the community(if you consider it good, some may not) the Clay Point property is still an eyesore, your opinion may differ.

I don't live in Alton but if I did it would be because I like the small town out of the way feel in comparison to say a more bustling community. However, that is changing & Mr. Bahre is contributing with the Hannaford/mall. I'm sure there many residents who are unhappy with it. I always find it ironic that many people will move to towns like this to get away from the hustle & bustle of cities & suburbia but then complain there is no super Walmart 2 minutes down the street. Its been said before transplants want every town service known to man that they had where they moved from but then don't want to pay for it & then complain the town is becoming more like where they moved from, go figure.

I don't see Mr. Bahre gouging race fans. I went to a race 2 years ago. I was lucky enough to get free tickets but the face value was $75. Comparable to other major sporting events. How much does Kraft get for a Patriots ticket? when he built his stadium ticket prices doubled. A friends seasons tickets when from $50 to $100 & they just went up again this year. As far as food, the food served at the track was comparable to other major sports venues in the New England area but cheaper. And get this, if you don't want to buy stadium food, your allowed to bring your own. Small coolers with beer, YES BEER, are allowed. Does Mr. Kraft, Mr. Henry or Mr. Jacobs allow that in their respective teams stadiums? NO. You don't need to pay for parking, Gillette & Fenway are outrageous. So even though I do not like his property at Clay Point & probably would not be in favor of erecting Hannaford & a mall he gets in A+ in my book with regard to ticket & concession prices at his track.

One last question that has plagued me of late. How did towns(this goes for any town in any state) get along or get by before property taxes soared? How could property taxes soar in a relatively short period of time, say in the last 5-10 years & still complain they are strapped & they need to raise taxes & create more developement to pay for everything? What did they do prior to that & where is all the new tax money going that its still not enough?

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Old 08-18-2005, 11:12 AM   #21
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Thumbs down High taxation

Don't blame it on the towns. Blame it on the state. With the education fiasco, the state had to come up with something. leveling the education tax on the estimated market value of a home was definitely the biggest no brainer I heard of. No wonder they are grappling with how they are going to pay for education.
Having that NJ company administer the EZ-Pass system was another no-brainer. That company has been and will be investigated for gouching the tax payers millions of dollars.
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:05 PM   #22
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Default Ugh

Beautiful? Depends on your definition...It's a monstrosity...too big for the Lake...kinda like those insanely loud ocean-going cigarette boats that have people yelling for speed limits. God bless Mr. Bahre with his entrepreneurial spirit and success -- I tip my hat to him. But the development of that area, where a wonderful boys camp was for years, is nothing short of a damn shame. And those of you who see your real estate assessments go through the roof and your tax bills quadruple can thank the builders of the mansions.

It's all in how you define "progress."
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:28 PM   #23
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Default Make up your mind

Aquadeziac, you confuse me. You seem very upset about Mr Bahre's spending of his (you claim everyone else's) money. And I am not making a stand one way or the other. However, after speaking (writing ) so harshly, or passionately, regarding his spending money, you end your posts with the tag line:"He who dies with the most toys wins".

Soooooo, which is it? Is it that he has a bigger toy (house) and you are jealous? Did he beat you at Monopoly and you are a sore looser?

What someone does with thier own money is thier business. I'm not interested in a big house, but he my not be interested in something else that I am interested in.

How much money did the builder spend to build the Mini Mt.? No one has a problem with how he spent his money. I am tangenting from the thread. But before critizing someone so harshly, make sure your ducks are in a row.
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:55 PM   #24
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Default How much??

What does the tax bill for the Bahre hotel run per year? Regardless of what you think of the property it is pretty obvious that Mr. Bahre is screaming for attention. How old is this guy? Is he as insecure as that property seems to indicate he is?
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Old 08-18-2005, 06:12 PM   #25
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Are you as envious as your post seems to indicate you are?
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:57 PM   #26
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That house will be a cherished landmark, like the lighthouse on Spindle Point, in a 100 years. Lighten up folks
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:15 PM   #27
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I believe the amount of Mr Bahre's 2003 taxes to Alton was $383,000. Ooooops......theres a tax increase coming, will the price for seating tickets go up too? Better start lining up at the new Hannafords now and avoid the rush.
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Old 08-18-2005, 09:47 PM   #28
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Default Taste

Wealth and taste are very different attributes and many have the former without the latter.

Look at Squam Lake: there are multi-billionaires who build extraordinary homes and painstakingly landscape them to keep them in harmony with their surroundings and keep the shoreline verdant. The homes are elegant but fit in their surroundings. They respect the lake ambience, the very reason they want to be here in the first place. Understatement is the norm, garish displays of wealth are considered gauche.

I think that anyone who is fortunate enough to own waterfront property has a responsibility to society to keep it as close to natural as possible.
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Old 08-19-2005, 04:07 AM   #29
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Default Sometimes things change

I used to live in colorado outside of Vail. Vail BECAME Vail in the early sixties. The land prior to becoming a winter play ground was sheep pastures. Only ranchers lived in the area. Now the entire valley which is about 45 miles long is full of Multi-million dollar ski chalets. It is one of the most beautiful places on the face of the earth. One day the world outside of the valley found out what a treasure it was and rushed in. Naturally those with the deepest pockets bought up what little land there was and brought their lavish lifestyle with them. Thats the way it is, like it or not. To this day there are people who try to cling to that way of life which is only 40 yrs old but are just way out of touch with what the valley has become, a tourist attraction. This could possibly be the begining of such a change. The world has found your little secret and it likes it, or maybe not. There are some positives though. The schools in that valley are some of the nicest schools in the country. The one highschool has a bio-building which has a fish hatchery and grows a variety of flowers with hydroponics. Not bad for a public school.
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:13 AM   #30
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I believe Mr. Bahre is in his mid 70's. The Millie B boat driver said the taxes on the Bahre estate are $1,000 a day.
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:03 AM   #31
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Cool And so it goes...............

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieStar
I used to live in colorado outside of Vail. Vail BECAME Vail in the early sixties. The land prior to becoming a winter play ground was sheep pastures. Only ranchers lived in the area. Now the entire valley which is about 45 miles long is full of Multi-million dollar ski chalets.
I bought a house on foreclosure in Breckingridge CO. in the late '90's. Since then the area was booming. The area between Dillon and Breckenridge was remote, now developed with million dollar homes.
As an investment property, it was paying for itself by renting it out in the winter months. After 9/11, I've been having a hard time renting it out to pay the expenses. The property's value has skyrocketed in the past few years and so has the taxes. I am hard pressed to keep the property.
Winnipesaukee is not alone.
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:18 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PROPELLER
The Millie B boat driver said the taxes on the Bahre estate are $1,000 a day.

That is totally outageous. Politicians have absolutely no conscience. Unless of course it was a $1000 a day fine for scaring the land so badly
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:34 AM   #33
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Default Get Over It

Good Lord! Give the guy a break. It's his money, his property and his style. Don't look at it if you don't like it. Let's not forget, this is America. Get a life!
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:51 AM   #34
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Wink Eyesores

Hmmm ... what could I possibly add to this mess. Well my neighbor has this ugly yellow Miata. I mean bright yellow and it sure sticks out like a sore thumb. Frankly it disturbs me to look at it and now I think I have the answer. I'm writing my congressman to pass a law; no more yellow cars. While I'm at it, I'm not too keen on green cars either. And now that I think of it, the Victorian House restaurant on Rt11, well the owners painted it, painted it purple of all things. I thought it was an eyesore before but now it's a tidy, but purple, eyesore. Guess I'll be writing 2 letters ...

ps - You the more I think of it, the more things I find aren't quite up to my lofty sense of style. My other neighbor, Bob, he's no winner in the looks department if you know what I mean. And lets not even mention his wife. Ugly people out and about in public where I might have to view them, I tell ya there outta be a law. Make that 3 letters ....
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:25 AM   #35
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Default Zoning Is a Fact of Life

A yellow Miata? Eeew.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Residential Zoning DOES exist. It's a set of regulations intended to find a happy medium between personal freedoms (having a bright yellow Miata in the yard) and the best interest of a community as a whole (not allowing someone to have 30 bright yellow Miatas in the yard).

I think the gist of the sentiments here in this thread are simply that it would be nice if the natural beauty was protected somewhat more than it has been on Wiini. Controlling growth is only common sense. It's not easy, as people's opinions as to the level of acceptability will always vary, but it is necessary.

The first time I went to Squam lake 25 years ago and heard of the tight controls they impose on builders/owners, I thought it was wrong. Now when I see how Squam looks compared to Winni, I see they were right.

Heck, look at Governor Mitt's place in Wolfeboro. Very big, multiple buildings, tons of land, etc., yet it blends nicely with the shoreline.
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:15 PM   #36
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boathousegirl, Its funny because thats what I say, "get over it" to shore front property owners who complain about rafting, anchored boats in front of their shore, high performance boats, loud boats. They don't have too look at the high performance boats that pass by, boats anchored or rafting, they can plug their ears when a loud boat passes.

I guess we all have something that irritates us, pet peeves. I'm sure you do too. It just happens to be my pet peeve on the lake that I don't like looking at the many properties around the lake that ruined the shoreline. Obliterated the trees along the shore in favor of well manicured lawns, built ostentacious mansions that do not blend in. Grouse Point in Meredith really irritated me when that was built.

While I know the snowmobilers will not be happy with this but I am so glad that the Castle in the Clouds, Ossipee range in Moultonborough was not sold to developers. That would have been a mess & a shame. However, I do feel bad for the snowmobilers & I support their complaints.

The next time a shore front property owner asks me to move because he does not want to look at my boat while I am anchored I will respond that I don't like looking at his McMansion & manicured lawn devoid of trees so were even.
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:21 PM   #37
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Default A Few Thoughts

I was just checking out this photo posted by FlyGuy today on Photopost and thinking that actually quite a bit of the shoreline was left intact and that you can only see the house(s) from a limited vantage point. It certainly could have been worse. What if the whole (Clay) Point had been cleared of trees along the shoreline?

It goes without saying that it's too bad that when CAMP ALTON became available' the Town of Alton was not able to purchase the property. Or for that matter, the LAKES REGION CONSERVATION TRUST as they have done recently with Castle in the Clouds.

Speaking of CASTLE in the CLOUDS , I think that the Bahre Estate would qualify as the third castle on or near the lake. (I'm disqualifying Sleeper's Castle due to its' relatively small size.) Thomas Plant built Castle in the Clouds circa. 1915.
Benjamin Kimball built KIMBALL'S CASTLE in 1895. I wonder what the thoughts of the "general populace" (such as us) were about the building of these castles at the time? ?


On the positive side; the Bahre property could have been broken up into many more lots. Perhaps, eventually, it will become public when someone is not able to afford it any longer between the taxes and the upkeep.

PS - Bahre is the biggest taxpayer in Alton. Perhaps, in part, that is why the kiddos in Alton and Barnstead are enjoying the benefits of the brand new Prospect Mountain High School. (Not to mention the "contribution" of the rest of us non-voting taxpayers.)

Last edited by mcdude; 08-19-2005 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 08-22-2005, 06:36 AM   #38
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Default Eyesore?!?!

KTO - How on God's green earth can you classify the home Bob Bahre built as an "eyesore?" This is probably one the most beautiful homes in New England! My prediction: I'd bet those who are critical of the home would be first in line if given the opportunity to tour it.
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Old 08-22-2005, 10:55 AM   #39
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Default Shame on Aquadeziac

You seem to be dumping on the Bahre estate. Then again doesn't your "handle" read "he who dies with the most toys wins?" To someone like the Bahre family this property is nothing but a toy, necessity, way of life, get the picture? Lets watch the stones!
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Old 08-29-2005, 06:16 PM   #40
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Default Nicest House on the Lake

I'd have to agree with those who say the house is an eyesore. While I have no problem with non-native forms of architecture, I think that particularly in a wooded, lakeside environment, it's nice to see buildings that have a more indigenous feel to them, rather than overly impressive. While I'm sure the home is more than impressive on the inside and out, I'd actually say it's my least favorite of all of John Morris' homes. I think some of his other designs would be much more suited to the lakefront atmosphere.

While maybe not as visually impressive, I think the home that fits more beautifully into the landscape while still very large would be the "Appe Estate" in Wolfeboro.

Appe Estate
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TMS Architects have done a lot of work in Wolfeboro, all of which is beautiful.

Now I know a lot of you natives are out taking pictures a lot, so if anyone is ever down by Springfield Point in Wolfeboro and felt like snapping some pictures of this beautiful house, I'd be more than grateful.
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