Weirs Drive-in sold

[SIKSUKR]

Lookd like the drive-in has sold for 2.5 million for condo development.
http://www.nh1.com/news/historic-nh-...miniums-shops/

[Sammy]

End of an era, many fun memories... Hopefully this will breath new life into the Weirs.

[Biggd]

The condo market must be hot again because that's been for sale for quite some time. That will be a big boost for the Laconia tax base. Let's see if they can slow down on residential tax increases.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Biggd

The condo market must be hot again because that's been for sale for quite some time. That will be a big boost for the Laconia tax base. Let's see if they can slow down on residential tax increases.

I am a lot less concerned about taxes than I am about improving the Weirs Beach area. Since Al Mitchell now controls about 22 acres, including the large vacant lot next to Cumberland Farms, his plan and vision for the area is very important. He has said that he likes what has been done in Meredith and cited Church Landing as an example. That speaks volumes about what will happen on his land.

This is a great opportunity to finally begin the improvements people have been asking about and hoping for for many years. I hope the city is as supportive as possible to help the development of this property move forward in a timely manner.

[Biggd]

I dont have a home in Laconia but if I did I would like to see my tax money spent more wisely and I certainly would not expect anymore increases once these commercial parcels get built. When I was looking for a second home I avoided Laconia because of its high taxes and high crime rate for the area. Hopefully they put that extra tax money to good use.

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[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I dont have a home in Laconia but if I did I would like to see my tax money spent more wisely and I certainly would not expect anymore increases once these commercial parcels get built. When I was looking for a second home I avoided Laconia because of its high taxes and high crime rate for the area. Hopefully they put that extra tax money to good use.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I would assume a lot of it is going to "social services" in the city.

[coltgov101]

I'm surprised the drive in is still there after all these years. I can't say how many times I was there. First with my parents and later as a young driver. I always managed to bring my dates to the drive in!

[Southerncomfort3]

I think Labor Day all the old classic cars should pick a night for the last showing at the drive in

[Biggd]

I'm really surprised it lasted this long. It can't have been very profitable, being only seasonal and with the high property taxes of Laconia. But there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by Southerncomfort3

I think Labor Day all the old classic cars should pick a night for the last showing at the drive in

Great idea.

It's a shame that whenever any business closes everyone, including me, are quick to say how much we loved the place and will miss it. But on the other hand never go there or seldom.

[Winnisquamer]

As much as I enjoyed going there every summer since I could drive I've hoped they would be bought and rebuilt by someone. The place over the last few years has been disgusting.

[CateP]

Looks like the son is going to take the projection equipment and open up another Drive In. I hope he does. We go every year as part of our annual "drive around the lake and eat fried food" event.

I think if he keeps it retro and brands it as a 50's-60's kind of thing, it will be successful. What a unique fun night for kids and families.

[CateP]

Looks like the son is going to take the projection equipment and open up another Drive In. I hope he does. We go every year as part of our annual "drive around the lake and eat fried food" event.

I think if he keeps it retro and brands it as a 50's-60's kind of thing, it will be successful. What a unique fun night for kids and families.

[mcdude]

Other than owning two self-storage facilities and a carwash, is anyone aware of any other properties that the A. E. Mitchell Corporation has developed? I guess I'm wondering if his pockets are deep enough to pull something like this off?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by mcdude

Other than owning two self-storage facilities and a carwash, is anyone aware of any other properties that the A. E. Mitchell Corporation has developed? I guess I'm wondering if his pockets are deep enough to pull something like this off?

Yes, the pockets are deep enough.

Along with business ventures, some that are publicly known, some that are not, he has a waterfront home worth millions (with an eight car garage).

Don't worry about AL. He is a smart businessman and would not have acquired 22 acres in the Weirs without a plan that will succeed.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

he has a waterfront home worth millions (with an eight car garage).

Would that happen to be the property at the corner of Endicott & Summit ??

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Would that happen to be the property at the corner of Endicott & Summit ??

ssssshhhhhh

[Dave R]

Drive-ins are awesome, but in NH where the season is really short and there's plenty of empty commercial land, they should not occupy expensive real estate in an "urban" setting. Put them out in the middle of nowhere where land is cheap. It's not like anyone is going to walk or take public transport to a drive-in.

This is great news for Weirs Beach, I hope they really spiff it up. The area has tremendous potential and bike week is just not cutting it anymore. With the loss of half the NASCAR races in NH, wouldn't it be awesome to see bike week return to its roots of AMA motorcycle racing at Loudon? Hopefully the track is working hard to bring back Superbike races.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Drive-ins are awesome, but in NH where the season is really short and there's plenty of empty commercial land, they should not occupy expensive real estate in an "urban" setting. Put them out in the middle of nowhere where land is cheap. It's not like anyone is going to walk or take public transport to a drive-in.

This is great news for Weirs Beach, I hope they really spiff it up. The area has tremendous potential and bike week is just not cutting it anymore. With the loss of half the NASCAR races in NH, wouldn't it be awesome to see bike week return to its roots of AMA motorcycle racing at Loudon? Hopefully the track is working hard to bring back Superbike races.

Agree completely!

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Would that happen to be the property at the corner of Endicott & Summit ??

(Google Earth would indicate)...nice neighborhood!

[Donzi Minx]

Saw Star Wars and then the Simpson movie with the kids there.
Being a Masshole though......you haven't lived unless you went to the Revere
Drive In. Even more nefarious was the Saugus Drive In.
Truly the end of an era. Gawd I'm old!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Donzi Minx

Saw Star Wars and then the Simpson movie with the kids there.
Being a Masshole though......you haven't lived unless you went to the Revere
Drive In. Even more nefarious was the Saugus Drive In.
Truly the end of an era. Gawd I'm old!

Never went to the Weirs Drive-in, but we used to go to the Sky Ray, Bedford Grove, Seacoast, and Plaistow Drive-ins when I was a kid, and then later as a teen. It's sad that they are all gone.

We still occasionally go to the Bridgton Drive-in in Maine. My favorite memory from there is seeing the last Harry Potter movie there at midnight on the day it opened with my kids and their friends. The whole place was like a family-friendly tailgate party for hours leading up to the movie. Great fun!

I really hope a new drive in opens with the projection gear.

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Yes, the pockets are deep enough.

Along with business ventures, some that are publicly known, some that are not, he has a waterfront home worth millions (with an eight car garage).

Don't worry about AL. He is a smart businessman and would not have acquired 22 acres in the Weirs without a plan that will succeed.

http://gis.vgsi.com/laconianh/Parcel.aspx?Pid=8215

[Dickie B from HB]

When I was a kid my friends and I would go to the Weirs by boat and dock at Channel Marine and sneak into the Drive-in behind the screen. The fence there had been bent down. We would sit on the benches in front. We thought we were so clever.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Doobs41378

http://gis.vgsi.com/laconianh/Parcel.aspx?Pid=8215

I think that assessment is very low. He paid $1,300,000 13 years ago and at that time it did not have the large front porch. Dormers were added and the garage was built after he bought it too. There were also numerous interior improvements at the same time.

It was on the market within the last 6 months for over $4 million but it is not currently active. I know that does not indicate the true value but it is certainly worth a lot more than the assessed value.

[Winnisquamer]

Originally Posted by pondguy

Brings back memories of the Meadow Glenn in Medford

Haha good reference, that's going to be a Wegmans now isn't it? That's exciting

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamer

Haha good reference, that's going to be a Wegmans now isn't it? That's exciting

I would just love a Wegman's!!!

[BroadHopper]

http://www.unionleader.com/business/...eatre-08272017

[BroadHopper]

I use to work at Ho-Jo's where the Italian restaurant is now. After work we would sneak into the drive-in and watch the movies. There was a slit in the fence at the time.

And the dusk to dawn shows! Us local kids would sneak in a keg in a VW panel van and party all night!

I even 'rented' out my car to kids who don't have a car but have a date! Use the money to catch up on my pinball skills at the arcade!

[Biggd]

Not sure if this deal fell through but the Drive In was advertised on the NH Craigslist by Remax just yesterday. If it's been sold why would they continue to advertise it for sale?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Not sure if this deal fell through but the Drive In was advertised on the NH Craigslist by Remax just yesterday. If it's been sold why would they continue to advertise it for sale?

There are pollution issues on the property. The closing was delayed and may not happen. The situation is still being assessed. Time will tell.

[Woodsy]

Let me guess..

Baldi NEVER cleaned up the mess he buried on the property from the from the burned out saloon that spontaneously combusted!


Woodsy

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Let me guess..

Baldi NEVER cleaned up the mess he buried on the property from the from the burned out saloon that spontaneously combusted!


Woodsy

Probably not. Environmental usually results from a Phase 2 property study (a bank requirement for many mortgages) with soil borings back by the drive in. I would was there is some type of fuel or oil issue that was discovered when the soil was analyzed. The parking lot more than likely was considered "capped" and the soil underneath not subject to testing.

[Woodsy]

According to the Laconia Sun.. 7-NOV-2012. Baldi illegally buried the remains of the burned out Saloon on the Drive-In property. DES found out about it and ordered it removed with archeological constraints...

I never saw any trucks removing the waste, nor did I ever read in the paper that the waste was removed.


Woodsy

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

According to the Laconia Sun.. 7-NOV-2012. Baldi illegally buried the remains of the burned out Saloon on the Drive-In property. DES found out about it and ordered it removed with archeological constraints...

I never saw any trucks removing the waste, nor did I ever read in the paper that the waste was removed.


Woodsy

Very interesting. Did they think is wouldn't be found when they sold the property? Not very smart

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

According to the Laconia Sun.. 7-NOV-2012. Baldi illegally buried the remains of the burned out Saloon on the Drive-In property. DES found out about it and ordered it removed with archeological constraints...

I never saw any trucks removing the waste, nor did I ever read in the paper that the waste was removed.


Woodsy

Do the trucks normally pass by you and let you know they are removing waste from a certain location? Are people required to take out ads in newspapers that notify you that they are removing waste from property?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Do the trucks normally pass by you and let you know they are removing waste from a certain location? Are people required to take out ads in newspapers that notify you that they are removing waste from property?

It would have required a substantial operation to dig, load, and remove it. People who live in the area and travel by that wide open site daily, and in some cases several times a day, would have seen it happen. If Woodsy says he never saw it happen, it is highly unlikely that it did.

Don't forget, not everyone who posts here or boats on Winnipesaukee is a tourist, person on vacation, weekender, or occasional visitor. There are people who actually live and work in the area and notice what is going on! There are even people who are fortunate enough to boat on the lake 5 to 7 days a week, for work or play, from April through November. Really! It happens!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

It would have required a substantial operation to dig, load, and remove it. People who live in the area and travel by that wide open site daily, and in some cases several times a day, would have seen it happen. If Woodsy says he never saw it happen, it is highly unlikely that it did.

Don't forget, not everyone who posts here or boats on Winnipesaukee is a tourist, person on vacation, weekender, or occasional visitor. There are people who actually live and work in the area and notice what is going on! There are even people who are fortunate enough to boat on the lake 5 to 7 days a week, for work or play, from April through November. Really! It happens!

Well said TlltonBB. Thanks

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

It would have required a substantial operation to dig, load, and remove it. People who live in the area and travel by that wide open site daily, and in some cases several times a day, would have seen it happen. If Woodsy says he never saw it happen, it is highly unlikely that it did.

Don't forget, not everyone who posts here or boats on Winnipesaukee is a tourist, person on vacation, weekender, or occasional visitor. There are people who actually live and work in the area and notice what is going on! There are even people who are fortunate enough to boat on the lake 5 to 7 days a week, for work or play, from April through November. Really! It happens!

Digging a hole a few feet from the burned down hotel and burying the debris would have raised eye brows from anyone and everyone in the area, No? Especially for such a "substantial operation" as you put it.

I was unable to search a 5 year old article on Laconia Daily Sun's web site. so...

[Woodsy]

Outdoorsman...

Here is a link you can use to read old versions of the LDS... complete with the front page story about Baldi and the crap he buried at the Drive In.

https://issuu.com/dailysun/docs/lds11-7-12

When this news broke... there was HUGE local uproar because of the buried waste and its proximity to the lake.

In case you didn't bother to search here...

Here is an old thread from here (with over 100K views) that started right after the Saloon fire and continued up until after the DES article in the LDS.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ighlight=baldi

I am not saying Baldi didn't remove the hazmat waste.. But given his history (knowingly burying the hazmat waste on the property instead of trucking it away) and given the very public uproar about it, it was weird that the dig up and removal of the hazmat waste never made the paper. As a year round resident of the Weirs, I did not see any hazmat abatement dump truck or archaeological vans go in or out of the Drive-In. So it really doesn't surprise me that the deal to sell it is "on hold" because of "site pollution".

Woodsy

[TiltonBB]

There will be an article tomorrow in the Laconia Daily Sun about the drive in sale falling through.

[8gv]

So...

Do I have another shot at going to the drive-in next spring?

[GodSmile]

According to today's news story, the issue was the possibility of archeologically significant items on the property. The article did not reference any hazmat issues.

[TiltonBB]

Here is the article:

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...-falls-through

I had been told through another party that there were also pollution issues.

That is a shame but it is not the first time the arrowhead issue has stalled or stopped development in the Weirs area. Many years ago there was a plan for an 80 room resort starting where the mini golf is at the bridge and running to around the corner past where the tiki boats are being sold. That too fell through because of indian artifacts buried there.

So what happens? Re bury the artifacts, never to be seen again, and let the land stay vacant?

Maybe the nuts around the country, with a political agenda, who want every historic statue taken down will decide that the arrowheads are weapons and a remnant of war and should be dug up and thrown away.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Here is the article:

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...-falls-through

I had been told through another party that there were also pollution issues.

That is a shame but it is not the first time the arrowhead issue has stalled or stopped development in the Weirs area. Many years ago there was a plan for an 80 room resort starting where the mini golf is at the bridge and running to around the corner past where the tiki boats are being sold. That too fell through because of indian artifacts buried there.

So what happens? Re bury the artifacts, never to be seen again, and let the land stay vacant?

Maybe the nuts around the country, with a political agenda, who want every historic statue taken down will decide that the arrowheads are weapons and a remnant of war and should be dug up and thrown away.

If the Baldi's ever plan on trying to selling the property then these issues will need to be addressed. I agree excavate the artifacts place then in the Lakes Region Museum clean up the property and move on.

It is infinitely better than having vacant land. As was said earlier in the post, the drive in equipment was removed and being brought to a different location so more prime real estate will sit idle. UGH!!!!!!!!!! This was such a positive development for the Weirs Beach Area

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by 8gv

So...

Do I have another shot at going to the drive-in next spring?

Sure! Just put this on if you don't mind. Discounts available for multiple units if you bring the whole family. Enjoy the movie!

[Woodsy]

I am with TiltonBB on this...

IMHO the Native Artifact story is just a cover story... The developer also owns the lot at the top of the hill by Cumby's and will no doubt have the same native artifact issues and quite possibly civil war veteran artifacts. The cost of digging a few holes and checking for artifacts isn't that prohibitive.

My guess is they probably found something way more substantial that needs to be dealt with. Something very expensive that needs Hazmat remediation.


Woodsy

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I am with TiltonBB on this...

IMHO the Native Artifact story is just a cover story... The developer also owns the lot at the top of the hill by Cumby's and will no doubt have the same native artifact issues and quite possibly civil war veteran artifacts. The cost of digging a few holes and checking for artifacts isn't that prohibitive.

My guess is they probably found something way more substantial that needs to be dealt with. Something very expensive that needs Hazmat remediation.


Woodsy

I agree also and even Hazmat remediation is not terribly expensive these days as the fed requirements have reduced the amount of remediation necessary especially if it is an extremely old breach

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I agree also and even Hazmat remediation is not terribly expensive these days as the fed requirements have reduced the amount of remediation necessary especially if it is an extremely old breach

This reminded me of when we bought our mill building in Manchester. We had core samples testing done for a new parking lot and they found ash from burnt wood that came from an old mill building next door. The remediation that needed to be done on that material was....have it incinerated. What? Yup, its already been burned. You cant make this stuff up.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

This reminded me of when we bought our mill building in Manchester. We had core samples testing done for a new parking lot and they found ash from burnt wood that came from an old mill building next door. The remediation that needed to be done on that material was....have it incinerated. What? Yup, its already been burned. You cant make this stuff up.

Absolutely. We had property (a concrete plant)in Brooklyn NY from 1972 til 2016 which was next to an oil storage tank and across from a natural gas facility located on what is commonly know as the most polluted canal in the US (the Gowanus). The property was to say the least contaminated.

The resolution was to "cap" the property with 6" of concrete (no problem for me because we were concrete producers for 60 years) problem resolved. LMAO

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I agree also and even Hazmat remediation is not terribly expensive these days as the fed requirements have reduced the amount of remediation necessary especially if it is an extremely old breach

I worked for a hazmat contractor that clear a 250 gallon home heating oil spill. Had to jack the house up a remove, dispose, & replace 500 cubic yard of impacted soil & reset the house. $500,000! "Not terribly expensive"???


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I worked for a hazmat contractor that clear a 250 gallon home heating oil spill. Had to jack the house up a remove, dispose, & replace 500 cubic yard of impacted soil & reset the house. $500,000! "Not terribly expensive"???


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Yes but that is for an "active" spill. I am guessing as with my property the issues are quit old and remediation tends to be much different for issues that happens 20,30,40,50+ years prior

[The Real BigGuy]

Not so. It depends on the constituents of concern and their concentrations and volumes. You don't get a break for old hazardous waste. Inorganic chemicals, for example, don't break down with time. If a waste exceeds its regulatory limit it has to be remediated according to NHDES requirements.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Here is the article:

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...-falls-through

I had been told through another party that there were also pollution issues.

That is a shame but it is not the first time the arrowhead issue has stalled or stopped development in the Weirs area. Many years ago there was a plan for an 80 room resort starting where the mini golf is at the bridge and running to around the corner past where the tiki boats are being sold. That too fell through because of indian artifacts buried there.

So what happens? Re bury the artifacts, never to be seen again, and let the land stay vacant?

Maybe the nuts around the country, with a political agenda, who want every historic statue taken down will decide that the arrowheads are weapons and a remnant of war and should be dug up and thrown away.

Simple solution here: The City of Laconia should purchase the property for "fair market value" and donate it back to the "Native Americans". Allow them to build a casino, hotel and anything else they so choose (tax free of course). DONE!

[Descant]

Municipalities don't want to own polluted sites any more than you do. They mostly won't accept donations or ownership through tax deed, bankruptcy etc. until the site is cleaned up and approved by DES/EPA.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Outdoorsman...

Here is a link you can use to read old versions of the LDS... complete with the front page story about Baldi and the crap he buried at the Drive In.

https://issuu.com/dailysun/docs/lds11-7-12

Sorry Woody but I was not able to verify the link above so I will not click on it. "issuu.com" is just too suspect to be a legitimate web site and a whois search gave me the run-around.

When this news broke... there was HUGE local uproar because of the buried waste and its proximity to the lake.

In case you didn't bother to search here...

Here is an old thread from here (with over 100K views) that started right after the Saloon fire and continued up until after the DES article in the LDS.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ighlight=baldi

I took the time to read the above link you provided. There was NO uproar about burring debris on site so you are being a jackass for suggesting such. 100K views is as meaningless to this discussion as that thread was. It was hijacked no less than 5 times and there was NEVER a mention of the owner burying the building on the property.

I am not saying Baldi didn't remove the hazmat waste.. But given his history (knowingly burying the hazmat waste on the property instead of trucking it away) and given the very public uproar about it, it was weird that the dig up and removal of the hazmat waste never made the paper. As a year round resident of the Weirs, I did not see any hazmat abatement dump truck or archaeological vans go in or out of the Drive-In. So it really doesn't surprise me that the deal to sell it is "on hold" because of "site pollution".

Woodsy

Given that you have taken issue with this property for over 7 years now... Yeah.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I agree also and even Hazmat remediation is not terribly expensive these days as the fed requirements have reduced the amount of remediation necessary especially if it is an extremely old breach

I have a friend who works for the EPA. Hazmat remediation is EXTREMELY expensive. I won't even tell you how many times she had to go back for more money to remediate an old shooting range, or how long it took.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Sorry Woody but I was not able to verify the link above so I will not click on it. "issuu.com" is just too suspect to be a legitimate web site and a whois search gave me the run-around.

I took the time to read the above link you provided. There was NO uproar about burring debris on site so you are being a jackass for suggesting such. 100K views is as meaningless to this discussion as that thread was. It was hijacked no less than 5 times and there was NEVER a mention of the owner burying the building on the property.

Given that you have taken issue with this property for over 7 years now... Yeah.

I did not see where Woodsy said that the local uproar was on this website but I do remember that a lot of local people, and Laconia city officials, were very concerned about the condition and future of the site. I am not sure how you could determine that there was "NO uproar". As many people remember, it remained an eyesore for a very long time and many local people were very unhappy about it. There is no need for the name calling just because you have a different opinion.

Woodsy posts regularly with a level head and an informed opinion. As a full time resident of Weirs Beach he is in a great position to have a lot of information about what is going on in the area.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

IMHO the Native Artifact story is just a cover story... The developer also owns the lot at the top of the hill by Cumby's and will no doubt have the same native artifact issues and quite possibly civil war veteran artifacts. The cost of digging a few holes and checking for artifacts isn't that prohibitive.

My guess is they probably found something way more substantial that needs to be dealt with. Something very expensive that needs Hazmat remediation.


Woodsy

I disagree. The archeological artifacts, and/or the potential for such artifacts, is a huge issue. Here's why:

1. Generally, absent local regulations to the contrary, a developer is not precluded from disturbing or demolishing land/buildings of historical/archeolological significance. Even a property that is listed on the National Register of Historic Places may be demolished. However, this changes when a developer wants to disturb more than an acre of land.

2. Any time a developer proposes to disturb more than an acre of land, the developer is required to file a for an EPA stormwater permit. Generally, the EPA permit is issued by simply "filling out the form".

3. As part of "filling out the form", the developer is required to certify that they have contacted the State Office of Historic Preservation, and certify that the SOHP has determined that the stormwater activities will cause no harm to properties that contain, or may contain, historical or archeological significant features.

4. If SOHP determines that historic/architectural features may be harmed, the stormwater permit goes into a sort of limbo, where the developer must either preserve or mitigate the harmed historic/archeological disturbance.

5. The developer must then work to appease the SOHP, and show that they have done all they can for preservation. That said, there is no standard/regulation for said preservation. On a property like the drive in theatre, hundreds of thousands of dollars could be spent on planning such preservation/mitigation, with no assurance the SOHP will accept the plan. The goal of the SOHP is preservation and mitigation, and they have a professional, and likely emotional, preference to uphold this goal. As a reference, the City of Laconia spent $90,000 on archeological consultants, just to demonstrate that there was minimal chance of finding artifacts below a sidewalk reconstruction.

6. "If" the SOHP was requesting/requiring that all artifacts on the property be located and preserved, the land is worthless for new development, as millions could get expended to achieve that goal. Finding these artifacts is akin to finding a bunch of needles in acres of haystack. There would likely be a SOHP compromise between total preservation, and some sort of limited preservation/mitigation, but a developer has no way of determining the cost or time it would take to get to such a compromise.

Usually, environmental contamination, if any exists, is more quantifiable, both in terms of discovery, and cost of remediation. Further, laws exist that allow one to "cap" certain types of environmental contamination, provided that contamination is "stagnant", with limited potential for spreading to other properties. This can be relatively inexpensive, as the "cap" is often paving or a concrete floor flab. It is also possible that there are more significant environental risks, but I doubt that the burying of fire debris would be so expensive to mitigate that it would jeopardize Mr Mitchell's development plans that were stated in the press.

Unfortunately, this site may have some serious risks, and those risks will pass to any new developer/owner. Accordingly, the value of the property is compromised, such that a developer will need to mitigate those risks, either through an extended/expensive review of the risks, or a significant reduction in sales price that would mitigate the risks. The current owner could work to quantify these risks, but certainly does not have the experience to do so, and may or may not have the financial fortitude to do so.

The Weirs needs some serious help. Mr. Mitchell could well have changed the landscape for the better, but he is a prudent developer, and probably won't accept undue risk. For the Weirs to see a renaissance, the City is going to need to come to grips with the following:

1. They are going to need to get involved with this sort of development/developer, and and work through the environmental and archeological issues, such that they convince the State that the benefits of redevelopment outweigh the benefits of preservation. There will be strong arguments on both sides, but I suggest that no preservation will never happen if there isn't an eye towards redevelopment

2. They are going to need to come to grips with the fact that properties in the Weirs are not getting redeveloped, because motorcycle week vendor rentals are more valuable, and are less risky, than new development. As long as that is the case, vacant lots are going to trump new development. If there were a ban on temporary vendor rentals on private property, owners would be left with no choice but to redevelop. In the short term, these owners will be VERY unhappy, and such legislation could even cause owners to lose property, as values would drop, at least in the short term. I'd suggest, however, that stakeholders with a longer term vision could be rewarded with a prosperous resort community.

Meredith was a challenge to "fix", and that was in an era of simplified environmental/historical regulation. The Weirs is going to be a bigger challenge, take deep pockets, and is going to take a lot of lobbying to convince the politicians/authorities/landowners that long term change can come with some short term pain and compromise. I'm guessing it won't happen, but I've lived here my entire life, and would love to see it happen.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Sorry Woody but I was not able to verify the link above so I will not click on it. "issuu.com" is just too suspect to be a legitimate web site and a whois search gave me the run-around.

I took the time to read the above link you provided. There was NO uproar about burring debris on site so you are being a jackass for suggesting such. 100K views is as meaningless to this discussion as that thread was. It was hijacked no less than 5 times and there was NEVER a mention of the owner burying the building on the property.

Given that you have taken issue with this property for over 7 years now... Yeah.

Outdoorsman--I'm confused. It appears as though you refuse to click on the link to LDS which Woodsy provided to substantiate his claim, then you question both his claim and his integrity. You can't have it both ways.

I did click on the link to LDS. It was an eye opening article that clearly reported how the Baldis abused the property, and that they risked criminal prosecution.

I have no doubt this created an uproar, and I thank Woodsy for his reporting.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

According to the Laconia Sun.. 7-NOV-2012. Baldi illegally buried the remains of the burned out Saloon on the Drive-In property. DES found out about it and ordered it removed with archeological constraints...

I never saw any trucks removing the waste, nor did I ever read in the paper that the waste was removed.


Woodsy

How much you want to bet that DES slapped the "archeological constraints" requirement on the order as a punishment for illegally burying the debris KNOWING it would cost a lot to meet those requirements. It could make selling the land almost impossible or make it unprofitable. Lesson learned: Don't get the government ticked off at you, because they know how to be vindictive.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Outdoorsman...

Here is a link you can use to read old versions of the LDS... complete with the front page story about Baldi and the crap he buried at the Drive In.

https://issuu.com/dailysun/docs/lds11-7-12

When this news broke... there was HUGE local uproar because of the buried waste and its proximity to the lake.

In case you didn't bother to search here...

Here is an old thread from here (with over 100K views) that started right after the Saloon fire and continued up until after the DES article in the LDS.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ighlight=baldi

I am not saying Baldi didn't remove the hazmat waste.. But given his history (knowingly burying the hazmat waste on the property instead of trucking it away) and given the very public uproar about it, it was weird that the dig up and removal of the hazmat waste never made the paper. As a year round resident of the Weirs, I did not see any hazmat abatement dump truck or archaeological vans go in or out of the Drive-In. So it really doesn't surprise me that the deal to sell it is "on hold" because of "site pollution".

Woodsy

Woodsy I re read the article, I now remember it when it was published. My question would be since the buyer owns property in the area, wasn't he aware of the potential issues before the offer to purchase was made?

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Riviera

I disagree. The archeological artifacts, and/or the potential for such artifacts, is a huge issue. Here's why:

1. Generally, absent local regulations to the contrary, a developer is not precluded from disturbing or demolishing land/buildings of historical/archeolological significance. Even a property that is listed on the National Register of Historic Places may be demolished. However, this changes when a developer wants to disturb more than an acre of land.

2. Any time a developer proposes to disturb more than an acre of land, the developer is required to file a for an EPA stormwater permit. Generally, the EPA permit is issued by simply "filling out the form".

3. As part of "filling out the form", the developer is required to certify that they have contacted the State Office of Historic Preservation, and certify that the SOHP has determined that the stormwater activities will cause no harm to properties that contain, or may contain, historical or archeological significant features.

4. If SOHP determines that historic/architectural features may be harmed, the stormwater permit goes into a sort of limbo, where the developer must either preserve or mitigate the harmed historic/archeological disturbance.

5. The developer must then work to appease the SOHP, and show that they have done all they can for preservation. That said, there is no standard/regulation for said preservation. On a property like the drive in theatre, hundreds of thousands of dollars could be spent on planning such preservation/mitigation, with no assurance the SOHP will accept the plan. The goal of the SOHP is preservation and mitigation, and they have a professional, and likely emotional, preference to uphold this goal. As a reference, the City of Laconia spent $90,000 on archeological consultants, just to demonstrate that there was minimal chance of finding artifacts below a sidewalk reconstruction.

6. "If" the SOHP was requesting/requiring that all artifacts on the property be located and preserved, the land is worthless for new development, as millions could get expended to achieve that goal. Finding these artifacts is akin to finding a bunch of needles in acres of haystack. There would likely be a SOHP compromise between total preservation, and some sort of limited preservation/mitigation, but a developer has no way of determining the cost or time it would take to get to such a compromise.

Usually, environmental contamination, if any exists, is more quantifiable, both in terms of discovery, and cost of remediation. Further, laws exist that allow one to "cap" certain types of environmental contamination, provided that contamination is "stagnant", with limited potential for spreading to other properties. This can be relatively inexpensive, as the "cap" is often paving or a concrete floor flab. It is also possible that there are more significant environental risks, but I doubt that the burying of fire debris would be so expensive to mitigate that it would jeopardize Mr Mitchell's development plans that were stated in the press.

Unfortunately, this site may have some serious risks, and those risks will pass to any new developer/owner. Accordingly, the value of the property is compromised, such that a developer will need to mitigate those risks, either through an extended/expensive review of the risks, or a significant reduction in sales price that would mitigate the risks. The current owner could work to quantify these risks, but certainly does not have the experience to do so, and may or may not have the financial fortitude to do so.

The Weirs needs some serious help. Mr. Mitchell could well have changed the landscape for the better, but he is a prudent developer, and probably won't accept undue risk. For the Weirs to see a renaissance, the City is going to need to come to grips with the following:

1. They are going to need to get involved with this sort of development/developer, and and work through the environmental and archeological issues, such that they convince the State that the benefits of redevelopment outweigh the benefits of preservation. There will be strong arguments on both sides, but I suggest that no preservation will never happen if there isn't an eye towards redevelopment

2. They are going to need to come to grips with the fact that properties in the Weirs are not getting redeveloped, because motorcycle week vendor rentals are more valuable, and are less risky, than new development. As long as that is the case, vacant lots are going to trump new development. If there were a ban on temporary vendor rentals on private property, owners would be left with no choice but to redevelop. In the short term, these owners will be VERY unhappy, and such legislation could even cause owners to lose property, as values would drop, at least in the short term. I'd suggest, however, that stakeholders with a longer term vision could be rewarded with a prosperous resort community.

Meredith was a challenge to "fix", and that was in an era of simplified environmental/historical regulation. The Weirs is going to be a bigger challenge, take deep pockets, and is going to take a lot of lobbying to convince the politicians/authorities/landowners that long term change can come with some short term pain and compromise. I'm guessing it won't happen, but I've lived here my entire life, and would love to see it happen.

Well said and thoughtful. Laconia is going to have to decide how to promote the redevelopment of the area if there is ever going to be success in that.

[joey2665]

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england...447902403.html