Swim Rafts now require a Permit

[Bear Islander]

I just received my mooring permit renewal application. It contains a notice that all Swim Rafts now require a permit from the Department of Safety.

You can download the application from the link below.

http://www.nh.gov/safety/ss/forms.html
_______________

Saf-C 404.09 Swim Rafts.


(a) No person shall put or place a swim raft in the public waters of any public body of water without prior written approval of the director.


(b) No swim raft shall be placed if in the opinion of the director:


(1) It creates a navigational or safety hazard;

(2) It interferes with the rights of other property owners; or

(3) It interferes with the right of the public to use the navigable water.


(c) Any swim raft placed on public waters shall have permanent identification attached identifying the owner responsible for said swim raft and the owner’s permanent address.


(d) Any swim raft placed on public waters shall have reflectors secured and readily visible on each side of the swim raft.


(e) An application for a swim raft permit, DSSS 102, shall be submitted to the division and shall contain the following information:

(1) Name, permanent address and telephone number of the individual responsible for the swim raft;

(2) Address of the shore front property in front of which the swim raft will be placed;

(3) Size of the swim raft;

(4) Description of swim raft, including but not limited to whether it is wooden, metal or inflatable;

(5) Distance from shore; and

(6) Depth of water at swim raft location.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Thanks for the heads up Bear Islander. This is going to affect a lot of people.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Do they require a public hearing or can Safety Services just implement them arbitrarily?

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Do they require a public hearing or can Safety Services just implement them arbitrarily?

It doesn't say, but the end of the form has a check off area that implies they make a decision based on the application.

The application looks a lot like a mooring permit application. I wonder if they will send a bill for a fee if you are approved. That's how it works for mooring permits.

[Seaplane Pilot]

You can bet there will be a fee. I just got mine yesterday in with my mooring permit renewal. I wonder what the acceptance/rejection criteria will be and who will make that decision. Let's see...I now have a dock permit, boatlift permit, mooring permit and hopefully a swimraft permit. What's next - a flagpole permit?

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

What's next - a flagpole permit?

My bet is the next thing is a water intake permit.

[ApS]

How about a "Rafting Permit" over "permitted" water intakes?

[Frdxplorer]

I am not normally a supporter of the "I didn't know that was illegal" defense, but how are those who do not already have mooring permits supposed to know of the new law. It sounds from the discussion that the new law is included in those materials but I am curious have they promulgated this new law anywhere else? It seems to me that there will be quite a few people who don't hear of the new law and, quite frankly, I hope they are just reminded with a friendly warning. I strongly believe that newcomers to the lake should make certain they know the safety laws of the lake before renting a boat or something like that. But I have a feeling on this one there will be alot of people who have had a raft outside their camp for 50 years and will somehow miss the memo.

Also, I wonder if this is in response to the new yellow tampolines and slides that have appeared in the last five years. Just a thought.

Finally, thanks Bear Islander for the link to the permit.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

You can bet there will be a fee. I just got mine yesterday in with my mooring permit renewal. I wonder what the acceptance/rejection criteria will be and who will make that decision. Let's see...I now have a dock permit, boatlift permit, mooring permit and hopefully a swimraft permit. What's next - a flagpole permit?

I think what's next for you is a Tiki Hut permit and I will happily contribute to that fund. SS

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Frdxplorer

>>Snip << Also, I wonder if this is in response to the new yellow tampolines and slides that have appeared in the last five years. Just a thought. Finally, thanks Bear Islander for the link to the permit.

I got a call from a distant neighbor who advised me "...There's a loose raft off your shore!"

My response was that it (one of those big yellow-and-blue rafts), "was actually anchored -- and was 'pretty far out' at that".

I had no complaint, as it kept all passing vessels (those circulating counter-clockwise, that is) well away from shore.

Abuses like that one probably factored into this permitting initative.

[JohnNH]

This pemit is likely due to the few that have no regard for others.

We have all seen swim rafts and giant tube type rafts that are placed responsibly and of course -- the ones that are in areas that make no sense.

There are several of those large tube types on lake the that are actually navigation hazards. I can only imagine what the owners response would be if you ran into their tube with a boat.

If the general public continues to have no regard when it comes to common sense or good logic, it's only a matter of time until we will all need a permit to look at the lake, let alone use it responsibly.

Just another humble opinion,
John/NH

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I think what's next for you is a Tiki Hut permit and I will happily contribute to that fund. SS

I already have a Tiki Hut permit...approved, authorized, stamped, signed and blessed by The Big Kahuna himself! Maybe they will now require a Jaegermeister permit...

[frank m.]

It's interesting that the Marine Patrol was willing to take on something like this, when (to my knowledge) there have been no safety incidents related to unpermitted rafts and they are already complaining so much about being stretched so thin. They are so quick to oppose any new laws that would require increased enforcement or more officers, even when those laws would surely improve safety. Are they going to need additional officers to patrol for illegal rafts? Is there any statistical evidence that says that unpermitted rafts pose a risk and that requiring permits has improved safety on other lakes? These are the kinds of arguments that MP uses when they do not want a new law, did they use the same criteria here? I was told by the director that they will not even bother sending someone out for jet-ski complaints anymore, but will they be sending out officers for unpermitted raft complaints? With all of the other issues on the lake these days that they are unable to manage, is this really a priority? And if not, why bother with the law? I suppose that a stationary raft is easier to catch than a speeding power boat.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Frank,

I believe that it's an easy revenue source for the Marine Patrol/State of NH. There are a lot of rafts on the lake, each one now representing xxx $$ in automatic fees every year. What's there to lose for the State by requiring the permit and fees? They are already paying a person in Glendale to handle the mooring permits, so this is just a little extra work for a lot more revenue. Same for the Marine Patrol person checking on the permits. They send someone out in a Marine Patrol boat on a regular basis to check mooring permits, most likely a job for a slow, mid-week day. Since they are "in the neighborhood", they can easily check for a sticker on a raft as well. Unlicensed rafts then get tagged and fined (for more revenue...)

[rickstr66]

The land owners who believe they own the water infront of thier house out to their swim raft 75 yards off shore. I have run into that numerous times. Ive actually been fishing along the shore only to have a person come OUT of thier house to inform me that I was inside their swim raft and therefore tresspassing. Or another time I was going through a narrow channel type area and a homeowner put thier raft right on the far drop off in the channel. When I tried to stay inside the channel and I passed inside thier rafft, they informed me I should be passing to the outside of "thier" beach.
I think the raft permits should not cost anything. It should be done for safty issues like John said above. People should not be allowed to just place them anyplace without reguard for anyone else.

[Bill25]

I went to the web site but I don't see a form for swim floats.

I did see there is a form for a permit for swim lines that I didn't know I
needed.

[Nero Gatto]

I tried all day yesterday and again today to follow that link, or even nh.gov, with no luck. According to the news last night NH.gov got hacked and it was down for repair. According to the report the site was now back up but I still can't get to it.

[Bear Islander]

The swim raft permit form was there Monday, now it's gone. It could be that they got the NH.gov site up by going to an old backup that doesn't have the new form.

The notice says if you call 293-0091 they can send you an application.

[spotsink]

I spoke with someone at Safety Services this afternoon and was told the application should be back on the web site next week. It seems that after yesterdays hacker event they are not making any changes for a few days to make sure everything is working right. I was also told there will NOT be a fee for the permit "this year" and that they will only be issuing paper permits, no stickers to put on the rafts... I was told the big concern is about rafts that are too far out or that are placed to "protect" someone's property but may be obstructing navigable waterways.

[dcama]

Does anyone know if a special permit is needed for a diving board? Also, I was told it is illegal to have a diving board on a dock, has anyone heard of this before?

[chocophile]

Up to now, there were regulations regarding swim rafts even though no permit was required. If a swim raft was a navigational hazard or in violation of the swim raft regulations in any way last summer, what prevented the Marine Patrol from taking action? Nothing, it seems to me. They could put a violation sticker on it, and even confiscate it eventually.

So, why the need for a permit?

[spotsink]

Another reason given by the folks at Safety Services for implimenting permits for rafts is to require that all rafts are marked with the owners name and address.

[frank m.]

That was already a requirement. As chocophile asks, why not just enforce the existing rules? If the personel that MP uses to go around checking mooring permits are not busy enough, as Seaplane Pilot implies, why not lay some of them off and hire more patrolmen with that money? Or put them to work watching the Horse Island and Eagle Island channels to record the hull numbers of violators of the 150 ft rule. Seems to me there are a lot of issues far more related to our safety than checking rafts for decals that the Department of "Safety" could be spending their time on.

[Bear Islander]

The personnel that check mooring permits and will now be checking swim raft permits, are regular Marine Patrol officers. They do it during quiet mid-week patrols when there is very little activity on the lake. If they get a radio call sending them somewhere or they observe a violation they can take care of that and go back to checking permits later.

This is actually a smart use of manpower. Give them a non-critical task they can perform while on a quiet patrol.

When you live on an island the Marine Patrol are the first responders if you have an emergency. If checking permits keeps them out on the lake and nearby, then I see that as a good thing.

[frank m.]

Bear Islander,
I assume you might be familiar with the Horse Island channel. Due to the shape of the channel and the distance across, a boat cannot legally pass through at more than headway speed, because it is always less than 150' to one side or the other. There are also markers on both sides that concentrate the traffic into a path about 200 feet wide. Boats fly through this channel in both directions continuously...sometimes three across and often times in both directions simultaneously. This goes on on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, etc, all day. I'll bet there is not a thirty minute stretch during boating hours all summer that does not see at least ten 150' violations. And boats heading south through this channel towards say Timber Island must immediately cross another busy high-speed route that passes from the west towards the south end of Bear Island. It is often times a zoo, and always a safety risk. It is just a matter of time before there is a bad collision here. And it will likely be a guy in a family boat like mine, going headway speed, that is going to get sliced in half. Except for one day last summer when they had four patrol boats parked there with lights flashing and all of the speeders slowed down way in advance of the channel, I have never seen MP watching for or ticketing violators in this dangerous area, any day of the week. The channel between Governor's and Eagle is similar. There are actually dozens of similar bottlenecks around the lake that are busy at any time of day, even on weekdays. I've heard all of the arguments about keeping the patrolmen occupied during slow times, but I just don't buy that checking swim rafts for stickers and writing tickets to owners of swim platforms that are not properly identified ("your name tag is too small, ma'am") is the best use of that time. If there are slow periods, put these patrol boats near these channels and have them passing out 150' citations. That is a proper use of a "safety" officer's time, and it'll bring in more cash than selling raft permits ever will (not that I feel this should be the incentive). The officer is still out on the lake and ready to run over if you need him, but he is really keeping us safe in the meantime. If you research the positions that the marine patrol has taken over the past years and read some of their testimony, you will hear nothing but complaints that they are undermanned and don't have a manhour to waste. There are too many laws for them to enforce already. Ticketing "swim raft criminals" just does not seem like something they should have time for, any day of the week.

[Bear Islander]

Frank

I agree with you that violations of the minimum safe passage rule are common. However I must disagree with you on what you call the Horse Island Channel.

I just checked my USGS map of the area and I find the channel much larger than you claim. I estimate the distance at 800 feet between Dolly Point and Cattle Landing. That being the minimum distance between Meredith Neck and Bear Island.

[glennsteely]

next it will be swim tags.....charges for every boat ramp......a cost for docking at the "public" docks....ect. I just think that you're local government sucks the life out of everything available to them to make a penny off of.....The Lake could dry up and they would charge you for a "right to look at the dirt on the bottom of the lake" permit. What is next? Really, think about it......a scenic view tax? Raft permits are taking it a little too far. Next they will be building a new prison to house all of you "raft mooring mobsters" and "swim junkies" and the like....."oh! your raft does not have a permit.....that is why people pay such high taxes, to keep scum like you off the lake and in Raft Residential violaters correctional facility, which we just built to hold the most serious offenders"........is this a joke?


I cant wait until they make a law saying waterskis have to have license plates on them, did anyone think about them making raft inspections mandatory, hey there is another cost they can impose on the lakelovers!!

[VarneyPoint]

Now that the application link is working again and I have gotten a chance to read it through I must say that this is beyond ridiculous. Not only do I have to determine the distance my swim raft will be from my own property, dock, etc., but I also have to provide the proper distances of my neighbors shore frontage, dock, possible moorings and/or swim rafts. I guess we will all have to get together one weekend and measure everyone's stuff so that the marine patrol, in all its wisdom, can ensure that my swim raft won't be a "safety" hazard. Does anyone else believe that the Marine Patrol is actually going to go around and check to see if a swim raft is placed in the manner it was described on the application? What if when they do an inspection you have not yet floated your raft for the season, say in early June? I know that mine doesn't go out until late June when the weather warms up. Are they going to make it a priority to come back at a later date? How accurate are you supposed to be? If I say that my raft is 60' from shore and it turns out to be 67', am I subject to a fine, revocation of my permit, or are they just going to tell me to move it? The bottom line is that this is a misallocation of resources, both on the water and back in the office. Some poor guy is going to have review all these applications and approve them. The state should have enough to worry about already than whether or not my raft is placed safely. I agree with you Glenn, this is totally unneccessary.

[JoeP]

Has anyone received a swimraft permit yet?

[Sunbeam lodge]

Another Ludicrous law. As stupid as the 55 mile speed limit law.
I have a mooring permit, why can't I moor my swimraft to it? I dont have a boat on my mooring.

[spotsink]

I think the more important question to ask is “Has anyone APPLIED for a swim raft permit yet?”

I have the application but have not gone far with it as I do not know how far my raft will be from my abutter’s property lines or how deep the water is where it will end up this season.

And then we come again to the question of enforcement. If the State is only going to issue paper permits and no stickers or registration numbers, how will anyone know a properly permitted raft from one that has no permit?

[Seaplane Pilot]

I sent the application in a month ago, but no response yet. They leap before they look, so they probably don't even have the "Permits" ready yet.

[GTO]

How about permits for bobbers that fishermen use.......

[Mink Islander]

I too sent my application in over a month ago, so I called to check in. Apparently they are still entering them into the computer as a first step before processing the approvals. Unclear when the process will be complete, though they'll have a better sense come the end of the month I am told. Given the volume of requests I am sure they have gotten, not surprising that this is a slow process the first time around.

[glennsteely]

I still think it is a bunch of sticks......how about enforcing the "no littering laws" on the lake? Or the drunk boating laws? Two birds with one stone if you ask me.......4 out of 5 cans on the bottom are beer cans. I think the marine patrol should have their hands full enough with other things, instead of working on swim raft violations. I wonder if they will have a quota of tickets to write for raft violations every month.......like speeding tickets on land. I love the area, and the people, but I dont envy you guys as far as the crap you have to put up with to own lakefront property. My grandparents never went through all this stuff.......GS

[Misty Blue]

What I do not understand about the raft permits is the 4th page. It is to be filled out by the State and would take a patrol officer, who is being paid, about 20 minutes to fill out even after he or she, in a patrol boat that uses a lot of gas, got to even look at my raft. I figure that it would cost the State about $10 to $15 per raft to perform the necessary inspections to enforce this new reg.

Possibly this will only be filled out if there is a complaint about the location of a particular raft. If this is the case then I expect that it would be much less work for the MP and the property owners to deal with it on an individual basis.

Just a thought.

Misty Blue

[spotsink]

This thread seems to have gone cold but I am wondering if anyone has learned any more about it since last month. Has anyone received a permit yet?

I have completed my application but have yet to mail it in. We are looking forward to our first weekend on the lake two weeks from now, so I guess I had better get it in gear.

[DRH]

Originally Posted by spotsink

This thread seems to have gone cold but I am wondering if anyone has learned any more about it since last month. Has anyone received a permit yet?

I have completed my application but have yet to mail it in. We are looking forward to our first weekend on the lake two weeks from now, so I guess I had better get it in gear.

My next door neighbor sent in his swim raft permit application 4 - 6 weeks ago. Last week he called the Department of Safety and asked for a status report. They confirmed that they had received his application but said no permits had been mailed out yet. They said they would be mailing them out shortly. They also told him that only a paper permit is involved, not a decal that must be affixed to the raft as is the case with a boat mooring. However, they confirmed that each raft must have reflectors on each side, as well as the owner's name, address and phone number.

[RLW]

It appears that the permitting process is for the large lakes only. When I called about putting a raft in a small lake they told me that no permit is required and I was responsible to ensure that it met all the criteria that is listed on the form. That is to say out of navigational ways, neighbors areas etc. No inspection required and when I spoke to them last spring nothing was even mentioned about reflectors, but that is common sense.

[Diamond Isle]

I dropped my application off in person last week. They had a stack at last 4" high that she had not even got to yet!

[Mink Islander]

Spoke to Gina yesterday at Marine Patrol HQ. She said the supervisor now has the applications and she will mail them once he reviews/approves them.