Chilling read and boat shopping

[diprna]

Whew! I just spent a good chunk of the morning reading the thread on the Cobalt that went down in 2007. I stumbled upon it while searching the forum on the topic of what length boat is regarded optimum for one to feel "not too bounced around" on the water. We have had a 26' Chapparell with a cuddy for 10 years and have - thankfully - not ever felt uncomfortable with the lake's sometimes unexpected rough seas. That being said, we have been considering downsizing to a 22 or 23' bow rider. We have been fortunate to purchase a lake house recently and believe we would enjoy a little smaller, lighter boat to use for waterskiing, ice cream runs, dropping anchor and chilling in quiet areas, etc. I have to be honest I am spooked by the visions of swamping waves coming over the bow in a bow rider though, since reading about the Cobalt. We plan to test drive a few brands this weekend, maybe that will allay some fears. Looking at Crownline, Chapparell, maybe Monteray and perhaps Cobalt. Would appreciate comments, suggestions, observations from owners of 22' and/or 23' bow riders on their comfort level, feeling of security, boat handling, brand plusses/minuses,
etc. Thanks in advance for your input.

[diprna]

Meant to post under "boating" but it landed in "general". Hopefully it will be relocated!

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by diprna

Whew! I just spent a good chunk of the morning reading the thread on the Cobalt that went down in 2007. I stumbled upon it while searching the forum on the topic of what length boat is regarded optimum for one to feel "not too bounced around" on the water. We have had a 26' Chapparell with a cuddy for 10 years and have - thankfully - not ever felt uncomfortable with the lake's sometimes unexpected rough seas. That being said, we have been considering downsizing to a 22 or 23' bow rider. We have been fortunate to purchase a lake house recently and believe we would enjoy a little smaller, lighter boat to use for waterskiing, ice cream runs, dropping anchor and chilling in quiet areas, etc. I have to be honest I am spooked by the visions of swamping waves coming over the bow in a bow rider though, since reading about the Cobalt. We plan to test drive a few brands this weekend, maybe that will allay some fears. Looking at Crownline, Chapparell, maybe Monteray and perhaps Cobalt. Would appreciate comments, suggestions, observations from owners of 22' and/or 23' bow riders on their comfort level, feeling of security, boat handling, brand plusses/minuses,
etc. Thanks in advance for your input.

I started with a 17 many years ago and finally settled on my 25 Baja Outlaw that I just sold. My wife started with a 19 Maxim then went to a 23 then settled on a 26 Chaparral which is about the smallest she wants to be out on. We do hope to go up to a 28-29 in the future just because it is heavier and a lot more comfortable to be on when the lake is busy. We have friends who own in that range and what a difference it really is in comfort.
Many will say a smaller boat can be just as good if you know how to operate it.
Well I’ve been on the lake a lot of years and even in our medium size boats coming into or out of any of the bays especially the Weirs can become a really rough ride.
So for us we would rather have a boat that doesn’t keep us off the lake unless it is truly rough water.
Any boat that sits low to the water is going to be a lot more vulnerable to taking on water then say a boat that is higher, add the open bow and it can in some conditions become a little tricky.
It seems that pontoon boats (the minivans of boating) are becoming more and more popular on Winni.. you might look into one of those.

[SAB1]

A 22ft is fine for the lake. How often do really venture out into the broads in 4+footers. Boating in that just isn't fun and you usually freeze your butt off.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by SAB1

A 22ft is fine for the lake. How often do really venture out into the broads in 4+footers. Boating in that just isn't fun and you usually freeze your butt off.

I've been in 2-3 footers coupled with boat wakes that were darn treacherous.

[AC2717]

i think the key is having a deep-v hulled boat. I have a 23 footer 1988 Cobalt bow rider with a deep-v hull and although you might get tossed around in 4 footers, liek anything out there, even crusiers, it does a great job of handling the troff and roll, I feel very safe in this boat

also the type of boat that while standing and driving the top of the windshield is at my chest and i am 5'11"
also wehn sitting in the bow, the only thing above the top of the bow is your head unless you are in the absolute fron then half of your upper body is showing (again using me as a example)

a lot of the boats on the lake show and have very little free board and draw too little. even in the case of the newer model cobalts they left the big deep design on anything smaller than 28 feet and went to the sleek low to the water approach. Normally fine on our great lake I would agree but there are those days you have to watch out for

Also wanted to add, it is also the skipper at the helm as well and knowing how to handle those situations when they come up

[VitaBene]

I just did a sea trial (well Winni trial) of a 22' Crowline. I was very impressed with the ride and I took it through some good chop and wake. It was far superior to my 86 23' Chris Craft bowrider. I did think it was slightly underpowered with a 5.0 liter Mercruiser with Bravo 3 drive.

Just be sure you have or get a well secured bow cover so the boat does not scoop water in rough seas.

[jrc]

I go back and forth on this. My dad had a 19' cuddy and we really never felt unsafe. We took a few waves over the bow and we got wet but never had a second thought about swamping the boat.

I owned a 26' bow rider and in four years, only twice I was stressed crossing the broads in big waves. I steered around the biggest waves and avoided taking one in the boat. But I felt there wasn't a lot of margin for error. I didn't think that canvas cover would keep the water out.

I don't know if one boat was actually safer than the other, I don't know if a wave over the bow in the bow rider would have been bad or just wet. But I know I felt safer in the cuddy.

Now I have a cruiser so this is moot for me. But you want a boat the makes you comfortable.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I've been in 2-3 footers coupled with boat wakes that were darn treacherous.

Quite possible. As mentioned in subsequent posts it depends on what you are driving. To clarify, I have a 20ft Proline Deep V walkaround. Weighs in at 4500lbs. Never felt unsafe in it on Winni yet. You just have to pay attention when in the heavy chop, know how to drive in it and realize you not going to take it on at 30mph. But as I said above, every year I get older, I hate boating in the wind.

[LIforrelaxin]

The bottom line is you have to be comfortable in your boat. I myself only have a 18' boat. And very rarely to I feel unsafe. And normally when I do it is because a storm is coming on, and really has nothing to do with how the boat is handling the conditions, but rather the want and desire to get docked before the darn storm hits.

The biggest thing in the boating world as far as dealing with rough waters, however isn't boat size. It is knowing how to maneuver your boat. Through the rough water. And realizing that sometimes slower is better.

In my estimation the only thing a bigger boats gets you, on the lake, is the ability to be less cautious when the waves kick up.

As for taking water into the cockpit of a bowrider, well a good bow cover does indeed help in rough water. But once again understanding your boat, weight distribution, and how you chose to navigate through the chop has a lot to do with this......

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The bottom line is you have to be comfortable in your boat. I myself only have a 18' boat. And very rarely to I feel unsafe. And normally when I do it is because a storm is coming on, and really has nothing to do with how the boat is handling the conditions, but rather the want and desire to get docked before the darn storm hits.

The biggest thing in the boating world as far as dealing with rough waters, however isn't boat size. It is knowing how to maneuver your boat. Through the rough water. And realizing that sometimes slower is better.

In my estimation the only thing a bigger boats gets you, on the lake, is the ability to be less cautious when the waves kick up.

As for taking water into the cockpit of a bowrider, well a good bow cover does indeed help in rough water. But once again understanding your boat, weight distribution, and how you chose to navigate through the chop has a lot to do with this......

Exactly. There is a handle next to the driver that is used to change speed. Some use it as an on/off switch. I have found. Using the steering wheel to change the angle of attack also is helpful.

Back in the old days if someone had a 21 footer on the lake it was a big boat. Now it seems anything smaller than the Mount is unsafe.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by gtxrider

Exactly. There is a handle next to the driver that is used to change speed. Some use it as an on/off switch. I have found. Using the steering wheel to change the angle of attack also is helpful.

Back in the old days if someone had a 21 footer on the lake it was a big boat. Now it seems anything smaller than the Mount is unsafe.

Maybe not so much unsafe as comfortable, I’ve found the bigger the boat the less it is effected by the wind and the waves. But I agree a little common sense and knowing how to operate in the conditions you are in go a long way.
I believe many a boater doesn’t know how to actually read the water.
I started in a 17 and could safely navigate the lake in most conditions but would I ever want to go back down to a smaller boat, absolutely not.

[bajalongislander]

we boat in a 2002 baja islander 23 and have had no problems at all

[8gv]

At 18', mine is one of the smallest boats on the lake. Situational awareness comes into play when piloting any boat. Reading the wakes in a very confused sea can be daunting. The px sometimes wonder why I'll change direction or slow way down several times as we zigzag toward our destination. They are oblivious to the slamming and inundation that is avoided.

With a smaller boat, comfort dictates where and when you go. The two advantages of an 18 footer are:

I can dock for lunch in the smallest of spaces while others endlessly hover.

It fits in my garage for winter storage.

[ThePlut]

I'm on my third Cobalt Bowrider. The first was a 20, then a 24, now a 27. I've never felt unsafe in any of them, I've never taken more than spray over the bow. I've been out in all kinds of conditions, including the 24 in some of the heaviest ever, with a full load of adults and children on board. It was slow going that day, but again, nothing more than spray driving by wind, no substantial water. I think it largely has to do with the guy driving the boat, knowing how to do it properly and understanding the capabilities of the boat.

I upgraded from 20 - 24 as a result of opportunity, and the desire for more physical space onboard. 24 to 27 was the result of an unbelieveable deal. The 24 was a great size boat for the lake, I still miss it sometimes.

Good luck!

[SAMIAM]

I agree with ThePlut that knowing your boat and driving smart makes a lot of difference. Criss-crossing large waves at a 45 degree angle works pretty well to avoid pounding as well as stuffing your bow(which we've all done) Following the lee shore, trimming......lots of ways to stay out of trouble.
Stay safe out there everyone.

[Just Sold]

It is knowing your boat and being able to navigate in all conditions. I did just that in a 14' closed bow Starcraft a few years ago in extremely rough conditions (3'+ waves) between Alton Bay and Ames Farm. Had 2 waves break over the bow but the windshield kept the water from coming inside. Yup, it was a crazy idea to be out there but we survived.

[diprna]

We are still in the shopping/thinking things over phase. I have very much enjoyed our test runs riding in the bow! It's a whole new boating experience. I agree wholeheartedly that captains skill set/judgment is the most important factor.....regardless of type and size of boat. One brand I hadn't mentioned but actually love is the 22' Searay Sundeck. We plan to get out in a Formula before final decision is made....have heard nothing but wonderful things about that brand. Not feeling as nervous as I was previously about the potential for swamping....all the boats we are considering sit higher out of water than I had envisioned. Funny aside...10 years ago when we were boating newbies....our inside joke was always that for some reason hubby's boat driving abilities always improved substantially after I had a glass of wine!! Haha!

[John A. Birdsall]

I went from a 12' rowboat with a 1 hp outboard, to a 6 hp outboard, then to a 6' boat with the 6 hp outboard, to an 11' plywood boat with the 6 hp, to 12 hp, to 18 hp and had a degree of fun with all three boats. But the 11' with the 18 was the best of the three. I would take the 11' out and go all over the lake. When gas was expensive .35 per gallon inc. oil we went thru 600.00 in just four months. (that was accountable, how much more unaccountable we will never know.) I read that it depends on the experience of the operator and perhaps that is ever true. I can recall capsising my 16'6 sea sprite in the ocean when trying to get my daughter wet. I will tell you that scared the daylights out of me.
Is bigger better? I seen some people out there with some pretty big boats that should not even be in a row boat.

[Rangervx]

as with any boat...just you your head and be smart about it. open bow wouldn't worry me...i've operated a bass boat on LW for 20 years this year...and open bows prior to that...never an issue. buy a boat that fits your needs and wants...and enjoy!!!!

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

It is knowing your boat and being able to navigate in all conditions. I did just that in a 14' closed bow Starcraft a few years ago in extremely rough conditions (3'+ waves) between Alton Bay and Ames Farm. Had 2 waves break over the bow but the windshield kept the water from coming inside. Yup, it was a crazy idea to be out there but we survived.

Love the Falcon. We had a Jetstar 15' and we are still here to talk about it.

[Formula]

We plan to get out in a Formula before final decision is made....have heard nothing but wonderful things about that brand.

I am on my second formula boat. As you said they have a great brand and second to none in quality.
They have a great new boat warranty if you go in that direction.
Kory at PBM is great to work with.

Enjoy the shopping

[ApS]

Originally Posted by diprna

"...I am spooked by the visions of swamping waves coming over the bow in a bow rider though, since reading about the Cobalt..." Looking at Crownline, Chapparell, maybe Monteray and perhaps Cobalt. Would appreciate comments, suggestions, observations from owners of 22' and/or 23' bow riders on their comfort level, feeling of security, boat handling, brand plusses/minuses,
etc.

That Cobalt had a lot of passengers, was operating in unfamiliar and extraordinary conditions, and was suspected (too late) of having a major leak.

The cover on the latest Soundings magazine suggests that "A Bigger Boat" can't answer questions of unforeseen conditions on the water.

[Jonas Pilot]

Take a look at the poorly hidden horizon. It looks to me that the photographer took some artistic liberties in the final presentation.

[SIKSUKR]

APS wouldn't do that would he?

[sa meredith]

23 Crownline, bowrider. Been caught in some nasty weather/ rough water.
Other than "operator error", we have felt very safe with this boat. It handles the lake quite nicely, I believe. For whatever the reason, the Crownline looks much "beefyer" than other 23 footers.

[Phantom]

I have to side with SA Merideth on her comment

We too have a 23' Crownline Bowrider

Over the years we have been in some of the nastiest weather & waves that the Broads can throw at you. It seems we always take that unlucky trip to Wolfboro on the days the weather God's want to whip up the Broads in the afternoon for our return trip

If you are an experianced driver, I can honestly say that I have NEVER been concerned with our safety in the 23 footer. Due to the design along with a little power up & trim we have never buried the bow in a wave. A bumpy ride -- YES and I am sure a 26-28 footer would handle it much better..... but the bottom line is that these types of rides are infrequent.

We found the 23 to be the perfect "all around" size.
(1) easy to handle- one person can handle the boat completely
(2) Great for skiing / tubing
(3) versatile for getting into those not so commonly used areas of the Lake
(4) satisfies the "need for Speed" in me 55+ (we have the 350 Mag)
(5) I feel safe with the grandkids (ages 5-9) in the boat as all of the seating is well below side rail -- for those occasional "Rogue" waves that sneek up

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I have to side with SA Merideth on her comment

I have met SA and although he does whine here at times,he is far from a she.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

That Cobalt had a lot of passengers, was operating in unfamiliar and extraordinary conditions, and was suspected (too late) of having a major leak.

The cover on the latest Soundings magazine suggests that "A Bigger Boat" can't answer questions of unforeseen conditions on the water.

Leave it to APS to present the worst possible scenario in any boat on any body of water.

[Jonas Pilot]

I never would have posted if I though the tread was going to turn this way. My comment was on the image, nothing else.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

Take a look at the poorly hidden horizon. It looks to me that the photographer took some artistic liberties in the final presentation.

www.soundingsonline.com shows the horizon consistent with the above photo:



As stated on the cover, the magazine's point was seamanship accounts for more than boat size. The Lake does have moods--just like yesterday afternoon's microburst--"the wind and rain were at a distance, coming down the lake".

A different chilling-read, excerpted from Three Centuries On Winnipesaukee by Paul H. Blaisdell

"Whereas at one second the wind and rain were at a distance, coming down the lake, at another the blast had struck. Moses Warren was piloting the 'Mount,' and when the big boat began to bury her bow under each wave, he realized that this was more than the ordinary shower."

Originally Posted by Phantom

I have to side with SA Merideth on her comment

We found the 23 to be the perfect "all around" size.
(1) easy to handle- one person can handle the boat completely
(2) Great for skiing / tubing
(3) versatile for getting into those not so commonly used areas of the Lake
(4) satisfies the "need for Speed" in me 55+ (we have the 350 Mag)
(5) I feel safe with the grandkids (ages 5-9) in the boat as all of the seating is well below side rail -- for those occasional "Rogue" waves that sneek up

For decades, we towed two skiers with our homebuilt 14-footer, but today's Lake can beat you up. For nearby storms, we still tune to radio's AM dial and scan the skies; otherwise, your 23-footer seems to "cover all the bases", IMO.