NH Taxes Revisited

[songkrai]

Thanks to shore things for finding this.

Donor Town tax to be revisited.

LINK

"State Sen. Jeb Bradley, a Republican from Wolfeboro, intends to introduce a bill postponing the funding change for four years. During that time, Bradley said lawmakers should revise the formula so property taxes will not be used to pay for education outside their municipality. He said lawmakers also should consider amending the Constitution to allow the state to target aid to needy communities."

The question is - will anything come of this or is this just "talk" ?

[tis]

Good for Jeb! We get killed in the Lakes Region with the donor town tax.

[Lakesrider]

I think if you have kids...you should pay a tuition...If you can't afford them...don't have them.
I think if you are paying a tuition you are more likely to get involved in your kids education.

Just my opinion......

[fatlazyless]

"He (Senator Bradley) said lawmakers should revise the formula so property taxes will not be used to pay for education outside the municipality." (from today's Concord Monitor) Senator Jeb Bradley has a guess-timated personal portfolio of stocks worth about three to five million dollars.

"Pushing for control of Education Funding: A three-fifths majority is needed in the House and Senate to pass the amendment question to voters." "If the proposed amendment resolution gets to the 2012 ballot, approval of two-thirds of those voting would be required for the change to take place." (from yesterday's Union Leader) And, the New Hampshire governor does not have a role in this process such as signing or a veto.

Here's my question: Why would voters living in any receiver town want to vote yes to a constitutional amendment that would lower the amount of money they get for their local schools that comes from the donor towns? .. If you live in a receiver ('poor') town, will you vote no to a donor ('rich') town's money coming into your school system....and a two-thirds state-wide popular vote is needed to amend the New Hampshire constitution! ..

[Lakegeezer]

Hopefully we can all keep our property tax local, but there still has to be a way to ensure all NH kids get a good education. Over a weekend, back road drive from the Lakes Region to south-central NH, one question kept coming up as we drove through small town after small town... "why is this town here". The industrial age has evolved and mills are gone. The high-tech surge of the 80's and 90's is all but over too. A town can't survive without attracting external money through exports or tourism. Education will help the next generation figure out how to create jobs or make them smart enough to move out. Leadership is also needed. The towns that started the "donor" movement, Franklin and Claremont, along with dozens of other small towns, need to discover and embrace new industries or will wither away. Education welfare support through taxes is appropriate for a while - but the mills have been gone for 50 years. How long is long enough. Indeed, the cost of supporting these dying towns is holding back those towns which are smart or lucky enough to have a sustainable economy.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

... "why is this town here"

and for the New Hampshire towns that do not have the property tax wealth of a Waterville Valley and a well-endowed elementary school like http://www.waterville-valley.sau48.k...t_welcome.html these so-called "poor" receiver towns are definately challenged to find the needed money to pay for their local school! It is a great big expensive endeavor, paying for the schools, and the New Hampshire constitution has been interpreted to say that it is the responsibility of the entire state and not just the individual town.

[tis]

And the education in the receiver towns likes Claremont and Franklin has not improved a bit. The kids are not doing any better. More proof that throwing money at something doesn't help

But you are right Fll, people don't want to vote for something that would take money away from them. (My favorite saying: "Don't tax you, ,don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree. " That's why the "powers" want people to be dependent on them. They will continue to vote them and their politics in.

[Jonas Pilot]

That's true and it goes for both sides of the fence.

[robmac]

I agree that the more money we are taxed the more money they spend. Having one child of school age and seeing my property taxes go up constantly yet also having to spend more for schools supplies because there is no money in the school budget frustrates me. However I was brought up to believe that education of children is priceless but we need accountablity for the funds spent. Such as lower dropout rates,and higher test scores showing the schools are doing better. JMHO

[songkrai]

Apathy.

Few if any actually go to school board meetings. So with no objections at these meetings they spend and spend and spend. With tacit approval from all.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Apathy. Few if any actually go to school board meetings.

"Inter-Lakes School Board Meeting changes day" is the title of another thread from down below in this forum group from October 13 that's related to school spending in Meredith-Center Harbor & Sandwich. (Wish I could lob a link from there over to here!)

Important, big money voting issues have been predetermined successfully for years in Meredith by holding both the annual town meeting, and annual school meeting, raise-your-hand VOTE, at about 11-pm on a Tuesday or a Wednesday in March. Now, for the first time ever, the annual school board meeting and VOTE has been changed from Wednesday night to Saturday morning. Why-O-why did this decision by the Inter-Lakes School Board-SAU#3 finally get passed after a number of previous attempts were voted no?

Read all about it in the thread mentioned above: "Inter-Lakes School Board Meeting changes day."

[caloway]

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

I think if you have kids...you should pay a tuition...If you can't afford them...don't have them.
I think if you are paying a tuition you are more likely to get involved in your kids education.

Just my opinion......

Or you could look at the other side: Giving those kids a good education will make them more able to pay for all of the boomer retirement benefits.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by robmac

I agree that the more money we are taxed the more money they spend. Having one child of school age and seeing my property taxes go up constantly yet also having to spend more for schools supplies because there is no money in the school budget frustrates me. However I was brought up to believe that education of children is priceless but we need accountablity for the funds spent. Such as lower dropout rates,and higher test scores showing the schools are doing better. JMHO

Your property tax rate is set based upon the school's budget, but also the town's budget, state's budget, and county. The rate is the overall total of the budgets for several entities; not just the school.

I fully agree that education is priceless, but part of what's driving the expense up is the unfunded mandate called "No Child Left Behind". This isn't the forum for a debate on the merits of modern education but if you want a better understanding of what those test scores really mean, what's driving much of your district's budget, and why those scores can only go down; not up, then read The Death And Life of The Great American School System by Diane Ravitch.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"He (Senator Bradley) said lawmakers should revise the formula so property taxes will not be used to pay for education outside the municipality." (from today's Concord Monitor) Senator Jeb Bradley has a guess-timated personal portfolio of stocks worth about three to five million dollars.

"Pushing for control of Education Funding: A three-fifths majority is needed in the House and Senate to pass the amendment question to voters." "If the proposed amendment resolution gets to the 2012 ballot, approval of two-thirds of those voting would be required for the change to take place." (from yesterday's Union Leader) And, the New Hampshire governor does not have a role in this process such as signing or a veto.

Here's my question: Why would voters living in any receiver town want to vote yes to a constitutional amendment that would lower the amount of money they get for their local schools that comes from the donor towns? .. If you live in a receiver ('poor') town, will you vote no to a donor ('rich') town's money coming into your school system....and a two-thirds state-wide popular vote is needed to amend the New Hampshire constitution! ..

Here's my question: What does his stock portfolio have to do with this? I for one prefer a congressperson who has shown the ability to manage money in their own life if they are going to vote on policy that affects me.Would you be more comfortable with someone who has gone through bankruptcy a few times.? What's wrong with being successful?

[fatlazyless]

Well.....money definately makes a big difference....and when individual voters go to the local poll on voting day to vote....the number one issue in their mind is usually the money issues....which candidate is better for my wallet they ask themselves.....so money is important....and I think that knowing about Jeb's personal wealth....and his proposal to limit a local rich town's education responsibility to just its' very own school without having to worry about the rest of the poor towns in New Hampshire is definately newsworthy...and Jeb will be the new Senate majority leader....

And, according to wikipedia, NH State Senator Jeb Bradley has a stock portfolio worth over five million dollars. (Unless he was invested in GE, AIG, GM, Citi, Bank of America, Lehman, or Washington Mutual..... ???....only Jeb knows .. ???)

Also from wikipedia we learn that Jeb graduated the Governor Dummer Academy in Byfield, Massachusetts, (northeastern Massachusetts) which is a prep school similar to Brewster Academy or Phillips Exeter Academy. So, while Jeb himself had the high performance benefit of attending a private school complete with a low student to teacher ratio, forty years later in 2010, Senator Bradley of Wolfeboro is sponsoring a bill that would put a stop to revenue sharing going from richer town-schools like Wolfeboro to poorer town-schools like Laconia. Sounds like attending Governor Dummer did not make Jeb any better educated......it just made him Dummer .... !

www.thegovernorsacademy.org .....(formerly Governor Dummer Academy)...... "The United States' Oldest continuously operating independant boarding school" ....... Established 1763

[This'nThat]

Has anyone taken a close look at schools lately? How many have their own "psycologists" on staff? Or reading specialists, math specialists, science specialists that don't even teach a class. How many teachers aides are there? How many administrators, vice principals, and other useless hangers-ons?

And what about class sizes? When I was going to school, class sizes were 25-35 students, and we did just fine. Now we have smaller class sizes -- are we still doing fine? Do we need to wire the entire school and provide laptops for everybody?

And finally, why do we hire union employees? Do we pay for full benefits without any employee payroll deductions for health insurance and retirement?

These are just some of the things affecting school costs. Getting control over these will cut down our taxes -- without affecting learning.

[tis]

Good post This! I too, think there are way too many administrators and support staff. I have heard of some support staff with titles I have never heard before and have had to ask what in heck they do! (Nothing like the ones you mentioned-those are way too common!)

[NHskier]

The legal requirements (federal & state) to provide for special needs are a primary driver behind the increase in specialists, aides, etc. and much of the increased costs. The federal government has never come close to funding special education at even the reduced level (40% if I recall correctly) they originally claimed they would cover.

Consider the legal requirement to provide educational services for a severely handicapped child, requiring full-time residential care at a specialized facility. Such costs for a single student can exceed $500K. Failure of a school district to provide defined (and therefore required) services ends up in court with the school district almost always losing (and with even higher costs).

Also, there are an increasing number of children being identified with autism ADD, psychological problems, etc. These result in at minimum the need for additional classroom aides, and more often require special education services and corresponding staffing.

The other significant increase in costs is due to the increasing number of parents who seem to feel the school system is responsible for raising their child, and have effectively stopped parenting. The problems those children bring to school end up turning into extra aides, alternative education programs, psychologists, etc.

[phoenix]

the donor system pits one town against another. Amherst the last I checked was a receiver and certainly not poor

[tis]

I agree with both of you NHskier and phoenix.

I think Amherst is if not THE highest at least one of the highest income towns in the state.

[fatlazyless]

"Laconia very unlikely to see extra 42.5-million in school aid as budget conscious GOP takes control of N.H. Legislature" is the title from yesterday's www.laconiadailysun.com Nov 9, which goes into a lot of detail, and requires some close reading to understand.

Here's one key paragraph...talking about the state's formula for distributing aid to schools....


" The formula provides additional funding to school districts based on their share of economically disadvantaged students, measured by the numbers eligible for free and reduced price lunch. Currently if more than 12-percent of students qualify for free and reduced lunch, the school receives a premium for all it's students."

...another paragraph...

"In Laconia, where in 2009 44-percent of students - twice the state average of 21-percent - qualified for free and reduced lunch, "differentiated aid" represents a signifigant share of its' direct state grant, which would be reduced if the formula is adjusted as Stiles (Rep Nancy Stiles R-Hampton, ranking Republican House Education Committee) proposes."

Want some well researched insight into the NH school funding issues....suggest you sit down and read the entire article through a few times....and it is not an editorial.....it is a news report.