The Dive!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by jazzman

I think the issue is that it needs spuds down to "dock" nose in to the dock. This isn't exactly a normal docking situation and it looks like that is what Laconia is objecting to. Yes the owners of those properties knew they were next to a commercial dock. There is no way they would have envisioned a floating bar docking in that manner by their property.

True, but it is a commercial dock as you said and has been for decade but I do agree that spuds down creates a new unique twist


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Wifi-1]

Would spuds down create a dock, and a dock extension permit be needed ?

This could go on for ever, lol

[Descant]

Reserve now before 2020 rate increase. Walk to new floating 4 star bar and grill. Enjoy their music from your deck. This vessel cruises, so limited opportunity to participate.

[fatlazyless]

quote... if and when Flightcraft (landlord) seeks approval for their required amended site plan with the https://www.laconianh.gov/469/Planning-Board on September 3? ... quote

Well ..... today is Sept 4, so anyone know what happened, if anything, at last night's Sept 3 Laconia Planning Board meeting?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

quote... if and when Flightcraft (landlord) seeks approval for their required amended site plan with the https://www.laconianh.gov/469/Planning-Board on September 3? ... quote

Well ..... today is Sept 4, so anyone know what happened, if anything, at last night's Sept 3 Laconia Planning Board meeting?

Also before the Board is changing the Colonial Theatre from "Ownership" to "Condominium"

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

quote... if and when Flightcraft (landlord) seeks approval for their required amended site plan with the https://www.laconianh.gov/469/Planning-Board on September 3? ... quote

Well ..... today is Sept 4, so anyone know what happened, if anything, at last night's Sept 3 Laconia Planning Board meeting?

The Dive was not on the agenda and was not discussed.

[fatlazyless]

"Planning Director Dean Trefethen said The Dive can continue its present operations at the pier in the short term and before the Sept 3 Planning Board meeting. That's when the issue will be taken up if the owner of the pier, East Coast Flightcraft desides to continue to host The Dive."

Quote from July 27 LaDaSun report ..... see link to 'an article' at top of my old post #308

Oh well ........ who knows ....... and who really gives a puh-tootie?

[WakeboardMom]

The nice young man at the gas dock tonight said the Dive hadn’t been open in a few days. Any news since the meeting on September 3?

[fatlazyless]

Hey ..... for $9500 in Wilmington, Vermont ..... here's the perfect used tour boat for a second 'The Dive'

..... 53' long x 18' wide .... formerly the Mt Hills tour boat, a pontoon that weighs about 15 tons with two Volvo Penta diesel inboards

..... price: $9500 ...... not too shabby! ..... would they let it go for $5000 ..... maybe, just to unload it?

https://vermont.craigslist.org/boa/d...974004333.html

..... with six photos except for some unknown reason, this link does not work here.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey ..... for $9500 in Wilmington, Vermont ..... here's the perfect used tour boat for a second 'The Dive'

..... 53' long x 18' wide .... formerly the Mt Hills tour boat, a pontoon that weighs about 15 tons with two Volvo Penta diesel inboards

..... price: $9500 ...... not too shabby! ..... would they let it go for $5000 ..... maybe, just to unload it?

https://vermont.craigslist.org/boa/d...974004333.html

..... with six photos except for some unknown reason, this link does not work here.

Does anybody know how to move it from there to here?

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by baygo

Does anybody know how to move it from there to here?

Length is not an issue, the 18' with sure is .

I would guess it would have to be split down the middle lengthwise and transported like one of those double-wide mobile homes.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by baygo

Does anybody know how to move it from there to here?

Moving it from a wooded shoreline area in Wilmington, Vermont to Lake Winnipesaukee will definitely be a big challenge.

At 18' wide, it is 9.5' wider than the maximum standard width of 8.5' for travel on the Vermont and New Hampshire roads. The length of 53' is the exact same length as a 53' flat bed trailer capable of hauling about 25-ton. Its' height could require the artificial smoke stacks to be removed.

Probably, best to get www.milesmarine.com in Gilford to get the needed state permits and make the move happen at 5:30-am on a sunny Sunday morning.

At $9500 or less, seems like a real fixer-upper, steal of a deal ..... especially if the two Volvo diesel engines are still running or easily made to run.

Fixing it up could be a wonderful winter, fixer-upper project, for The Dive at the West Alton Marina, this winter!

Introducing The Dive #2 ...... informally named the #2. ...

With two pontoons and two diesel inboards, the #2 could probably beat the pants off the 22'x62' barge powered with two Evinrude 2-stroke outboards that putt putt along at 4-mph. How fast could the #2 be expected to move ...... maybe 16-mph ..... or four times as fast ..... or, maybe 12-mph .... or three times as fast?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

At 18' wide, it is 9.5' wider than the maximum standard width of 8.5' for travel on the Vermont and New Hampshire roads.

Maximum width nationwide without permits is 8 Ft 6 inches.

[kawishiwi]

The linked story mentions disassembly & transport. Of course..."some (re-)assembly required".
I would guess it would break down to fit on a flatbed without need for special permits.

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Maximum width nationwide without permits is 8 Ft 6 inches.

That's what he said, correct? 8.5' does equal 8 feet 6 inches.

[Descant]

In the long distant past when I was a commercial captain, the boat inspection required a PFD on board for the listed capacity of the vessel. If the capacity was 150, you had to show 150 PFD's. If you didn't meet the standard, the vessel failed inspection.

[Momo]

So can those who have to look at the dive get a rebate on their “view tax”? This was not here when most people bought their properties and were assessed. Maybe they can start a “petition” similar to the people who want to keep it.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Momo

So can those who have to look at the dive get a rebate on their “view tax”? This was not here when most people bought their properties and were assessed. Maybe they can start a “petition” similar to the people who want to keep it.

First of all it is legally moored at the pier, secondly it is not blocking their entire view only a small portion, during the summer it is not at the dock all day it travels to sandbars and in the off season it is not there at all. So over the course of the tax year how long is the small amount on blocked view really an issue probably less than 5% of the time.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by joey2665

First of all it is legally moored at the pier, secondly it is not blocking their entire view only a small portion, during the summer it is not at the dock all day it travels to sandbars and in the off season it is not there at all. So over the course of the tax year how long is the small amount on blocked view really an issue probably less than 5% of the time.

This very well may be true but if I owned an affected property that has a direct view of this, and were placing it on the market for sale, then I wouldn't want it shown while "The Dive" was moored in my direct view.

The buyer would likely walk away.

A great way to kill a potential sale or rental.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

This very well may be true but if I owned an affected property that has a direct view of this, and were placing it on the market for sale, then I wouldn't want it shown while "The Dive" was moored in my direct view.

The buyer would likely walk away.

A great way to kill a potential sale or rental.

True but you may own the property but you do not own the lake.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Momo]

Originally Posted by joey2665

True but you may own the property but you do not own the lake.

Nobody “owns” the lake.... including the Dive.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Momo

Nobody “owns” the lake.... including the Dive.

Exactly so if they are legally docked tough luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[fatlazyless]

Is much more normal and common for a boat to park/dock parallel to a dock as opposed to straight out like that. The Dive barge is 62' long and 22' high with a width of 22' as well. If it was 102' long, would it still be ok to occupy that spot like that, directly in front of the Simpson Ave homes?

The lake belongs to the people of NH, so by occupying that water spot on the lake with their "spuds down" into the bottom, they are effectively taking possession of state property for operating their business.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Momo

Nobody “owns” the lake.... including the Dive.

Wrong. The state of New Hampshire owns the lake.
It is public property. As a resident of NH I am effectively one of many "owners" of the lake.
Personally I don't think the dive is an appropriate use of the lake.
From reading the LDS article it appears the owner is an arrogant prick with NO clue in public relations. I suspect he will be forced to move that piece of crap somewhere else. Hopefully somewhere like Kentucky

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

Wrong. The state of New Hampshire owns the lake.
It is public property. As a resident of NH I am effectively one of many "owners" of the lake.
Personally I don't think the dive is an appropriate use of the lake.
From reading the LDS article it appears the owner is an arrogant prick with NO clue in public relations. I suspect he will be forced to move that piece of crap somewhere else. Hopefully somewhere like Kentucky

No effectively you own nothing!!! Just because the state owns it doesn’t mean you do at all. Totally your opinion but they obtained 1000s of signatures in their support. You may not like it but tough luck again as long as it is legally docked not thing one you can do. You seem more arrogant than the owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by joey2665

No effectively you own nothing!!! Just because the state owns it doesn’t mean you do at all. Totally your opinion but they obtained 1000s of signatures in their support. You may not like it but tough luck again as long as it is legally docked not thing one you can do. You seem more arrogant than the owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

thank you.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by joey2665

No effectively you own nothing!!! Just because the state owns it doesn’t mean you do at all. Totally your opinion but they obtained 1000s of signatures in their support. You may not like it but tough luck again as long as it is legally docked not thing one you can do. You seem more arrogant than the owners.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

The signatures don't mean a thing, since none of them come from people affected by The Dive. That's like asking people in MA if NH should have an income tax.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The signatures don't mean a thing, since none of them come from people affected by The Dive. That's like asking people in MA if NH should have an income tax.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

No my point is that there are some in favor and some opposed to the Dive. No individual or group of individuals own the lake and as long as it is docked legally there is not much the “affected “ people can do.

As I stated however the use of spuds could be an issue and to whether it is decided if it is or is not legally docked.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by joey2665

No effectively you own nothing!!! Just because the state owns it doesn’t mean you do at all. Totally your opinion but they obtained 1000s of signatures in their support. You may not like it but tough luck again as long as it is legally docked not thing one you can do. You seem more arrogant than the owners.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

1. !!!, hmm, the more exclamation points you use don't actually affect the strength of your argument.
2. 12 million signatures wouldn't change my opinion of the dive.
3. There might be "not one thing you (I) can do" but how does that matter. Whats your point?
4. Do you know the definition of arrogant? Please explain how you feel I am arrogant.
5. Why are you SO ANGRY about this?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

1. !!!, hmm, the more exclamation points you use don't actually affect the strength of your argument.
2. 12 million signatures wouldn't change my opinion of the dive.
3. There might be "not one thing you (I) can do" but how does that matter. Whats your point?
4. Do you know the definition of arrogant? Please explain how you feel I am arrogant.
5. Why are you SO ANGRY about this?

I am not angry about this at all just voicing my position as you are and I am not trying to change your mind we are all entitled to our own opinion.

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

4. Do you know the definition of arrogant? Please explain how you feel I am arrogant.

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

From reading the LDS article it appears the owner is an arrogant prick with NO clue in public relations.

Does your analogy also include the folks that have supported the dive that have no access to the lake?

[Taz]

I think Kawishiwi is spot on with his arrogance comment. Dive owner felt he could pull up to Alton town docks and take on passengers without any permit, permission or discussion with the town. Early on last summer when The Dive started up some posters voiced their concern on The Dive FB page. Merriam responded that his family/he contributed greatly for building the lake into the attraction it is today, essentially saying I can do what I want because of my family contribution. Interesting that post was deleted shortly after posting it. Not sure who the Merriams are. We all know who the Irwins are. Love them or hate them the Irwins are more responsible than any other family for the attraction the lake is today. It seems as if Merriam thought he could build a barge and did not plan out how or where he could conduct his business. Just ask for forgiveness later if some one complains.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Taz

We all know who the Irwins are. Love them or hate them the Irwins are more responsible than any other family for the attraction the lake is today.

Interesting post. While I'm not expressing an opinion about the Irwins, what have they done, other than run a for profit business selling boats, to make the lake "the attraction the lake is today"?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Interesting post. While I'm not expressing an opinion about the Irwins, what have they done, other than run a for profit business selling boats, to make the lake "the attraction the lake is today"?

Running a successful business for 100 years and providing 100';s of jobs is an acceptable answer, and stands on its own, but there's more.
The Irwins don't just sell bots. Jim Irwin Sr, as a musician, came to Laconia and built several businesses and promoted them outside the area to bring tourists that benefitted the region. He built and ran Irwin's Winnipesaukee Gardens, the boardwalk, The Miss Winnipesaukee Speedboats…the list goes on. One popular spot on the Boardwalk used to be a BINGO hall; proceeds all went to charity. Of course, Jim Sr. was a leader of the group that brought the Chateguay to Lake Winnipesaukee when the old Mount burned in 1939. Later, Jim Jr. and Jack organized many events at the Weirs that brought people and business to the region. One that sticks in my mind was safe boating week run in conjunction with the Boston Herald Traveler for many years. As President of the Marine Trades Association he invited the ENTIRE NH Legislature to spend a day on the lake with their families, and recruited boat owners to host them and take them to various places around the lake, wherever they wanted to go. A huge undertaking in my mind.
Yes, partially business related, but helping all businesses in the area with promotions builds the region, not just Irwin Marine. BTW, I think thew Irwins were involved along with the Lavallees, in getting the beach at the Weirs built, and renaming the area from the Weirs to "Weirs Beach".

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Taz

I think Kawishiwi is spot on with his arrogance comment. Dive owner felt he could pull up to Alton town docks and take on passengers without any permit, permission or discussion with the town.

Is that "arrogance" or "ignorance?"

If the owners KNEW they couldn't do it legally yet tried, then yeah, it's arrogance.

If they didn't know (and didn't check beforehand) than I submit it is ignorance.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

Does your analogy also include the folks that have supported the dive that have no access to the lake?

What "analogy" are you referencing?

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

What "analogy" are you referencing?

No need to repeat your vulgar comments. You made it clear you don't like the dive. I'm guessing you feel the same about the Mount Washington. (No further comments on this subject.)

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

No need to repeat your vulgar comments. You made it clear you don't like the dive. I'm guessing you feel the same about the Mount Washington. (No further comments on this subject.)

What I feel about the Mount has no bearing on my opinion of the dive. Nice try trying to muddy the water and make some obscure charge about something you have no knowledge of to...to...to somehow suggest I must be a miscreant cause I must hate the mount, motherhood & apple pie? I used the word 'crap' and you were offended? Really? I am so sorry I offended your sensitive sensibilities with the word 'crap'. Oh crap, I did it again!
You are correct sir, I don't like the dive. Just exactly why are you so bothered by that?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Momo

So can those who have to look at the dive get a rebate on their “view tax”? This was not here when most people bought their properties and were assessed. Maybe they can start a “petition” similar to the people who want to keep it.

There is no such thing as a view tax. If people feel that the value of their property has declined for any reason they are entitled to apply for an abatement.

[The Real BigGuy]

“None of the many things you posted makes the lake the “attraction it is today””

The Mount doesn’t make a difference? What the Irwin’s did 40, 50, 60 years ago absolutely shaped the lake and what it is today. People didn’t all of a sudden wake up in the 80’s and 90’s and say “hey let’s start vacationing at Winnipesaukee.” They came because people like the Irwin’s. Made it an attraction for their family & friends who probably brought their friends to see the beautiful lake. The “attraction it is today” is just the natural progression from the attraction it was then.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Rinkerguy]

This thread was about The Dive, not the Irwin’s

Let’s face it, some like The Dive, others do not.

Personally I feel it’s a NH small business that should be left alone to operate his business within the law to whatever success he can muster

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Rinkerguy

Personally I feel it’s a NH small business that should be left alone to operate his business within the law to whatever success he can muster

Bingo.

"Live Free, Or Die!"

Words to live by, eh?

[joey2665]

The Dive is open tonight 9/13 at the pier with 1/2 price apps from 6-8pm


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[fatlazyless]

Apparently, the City of Laconia asked the owner of the Winnipesaukee Pier which is East Coast Flightcraft to get a site plan amendment from the City, on August 21, 2019.

And, The Dive responded to that request by asking for a 'petition for declaratory judgement' against the City of Laconia in Belknap County Superior Court on Sept 10, 2019 .... claiming the City does not have jurisdiction to ask for a site plan amendment .... claiming The Dive barge is located in the lake which is legally administered by the State of New Hampshire, NH Marine Patrol.

Gee whiz ….. so, just when I change my mind and decide that The Dive is the greatest thing to ever hit Weirs Beach and Lake Winnipesaukee, today's Oct 17 Union Leader has a Bea Lewis report: "Laconia floating restaurant to appeal decision over Weirs Beach port of call" …. complete with two color photos.

Here's some info:

https://www.laconianh.gov/AgendaCent...8?fileID=14200

Who knows but maybe everyone effected here, could agree to a compromise where the barge will get re-positioned so it docks up against the pier with its 66' long side, as opposed to its 22' front bow area, so the neighbor's view will get impacted by just 22' as opposed to 66', which gives the neighbors on Simpson Ave a 66% more, less cluttered and less ugly, barge view.

…. isn't that what this is all really, all about? …… and, do me a favor, and go extra heavy on that alcohol, bud!

Ok ..... so, a site plan amendment probably stays with the property, which is now owned by East Coast Flightcraft, while it's their tenant at the Winnipesaukee Pier, The Dive, whose business there needs it for operating the business, while The Dive is making a legal argument to Belknap County Superior Court that the City of Laconia simply does not have jurisdiction to require a site plan amendment for The Dive's business at the Winni Pier.

Ok ..... all seems very much in line with the calendar here ..... summer is gone ..... fall is here ..... winter is coming .... then comes spring ..... it goes summer-fall-winter-spring ...... you got that! ..... is plenty time in the off-season for all these legal arguments to unwind deep into and through the dead of winter ...... and, never ever compromise ...... is always best to LITIGATE!..... so stay posted? ...

[TiltonBB]

The owner's of the Dive made the right move in retaining Attorney William Woodbury. I have used him in the past on several matters and he is intelligent and very thorough. He does his research and is respected in the local courts.

Attorney Woodbury's letter to the city dated September 10, 2019 is an excellent rebuttal to the city and points out numerous errors made by the Laconia Planning Director. It will be interesting to follow this case.

The city was notified of the legal action and it now has until the end of the month to file its response to the claims made in the suit.

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...927e166b2.html

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Apparently, the City of Laconia asked the owner of the Winnipesaukee Pier which is East Coast Flightcraft to get a site plan amendment from the City, on August 21, 2019.

And, The Dive responded to that request by asking for a 'petition for declaratory judgement' against the City of Laconia in Belknap County Superior Court on Sept 10, 2019 .... claiming the City does not have jurisdiction to ask for a site plan amendment .... claiming The Dive barge is located in the lake which is legally administered by the State of New Hampshire, NH Marine Patrol.

Gee whiz ….. so, just when I change my mind and decide that The Dive is the greatest thing to ever hit Weirs Beach and Lake Winnipesaukee, today's Oct 17 Union Leader has a Bea Lewis report: "Laconia floating restaurant to appeal decision over Weirs Beach port of call" …. complete with two color photos.

Here's some info:

https://www.laconianh.gov/AgendaCent...8?fileID=14200

Who knows but maybe everyone effected here, could agree to a compromise where the barge will get re-positioned so it docks up against the pier with its 66' long side, as opposed to its 22' front bow area, so the neighbor's view will get impacted by just 22' as opposed to 66', which gives the neighbors on Simpson Ave a 66% more, less cluttered and less ugly, barge view.

…. isn't that what this is all really, all about? …… and, do me a favor, and go extra heavy on that alcohol, bud!

Ok ..... so, a site plan amendment probably stays with the property, which is now owned by East Coast Flightcraft, while it's their tenant at the Winnipesaukee Pier, The Dive, whose business there needs it for operating the business, while The Dive is making a legal argument to Belknap County Superior Court that the City of Laconia simply does not have jurisdiction to require a site plan amendment for The Dive's business at the Winni Pier.

Ok ..... all seems very much in line with the calendar here ..... summer is gone ..... fall is here ..... winter is coming .... then comes spring ..... it goes summer-fall-winter-spring ...... you got that! ..... is plenty time in the off-season for all these legal arguments to unwind deep into and through the dead of winter ...... and, never ever compromise ...... is always best to LITIGATE!..... so stay posted? ...

I'm sure the Dive docked across the front of the pier wouldn't be good for pier business. The only real reason to go out there is the view because the food suxs. Take away the view and they have nothing!

[Susie Cougar]

I read the article in the paper. It doesn’t seem like the owners want to be good neighbors. All they keep saying is that they never did anything wrong, and they couldn’t care less if others are bothered by noise. And now they’re suing the town?

Why can’t they just move to the other side?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I read the article in the paper. It doesn’t seem like the owners want to be good neighbors. All they keep saying is that they never did anything wrong, and they couldn’t care less if others are bothered by noise. And now they’re suing the town?

Why can’t they just move to the other side?

Why should they move? They are adhering to the same rules as everyone’s the pier including the Mount regarding music noise opening and closing times ect


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[fatlazyless]

Because the 62 x 22', two story Dive barge is killing the view for homes nearby on Simpson Ave by sticking out the long, length of the barge. If the barge were turned and docked parallel to the dock, it would present a 1/3 smaller view obstruction.

For the last hundred years, since 1919, there's never been a similar use at that location so it needs to get a SITE PLAN AMENDMENT from the Laconia Planning and Community Board. Running the Dive restaurant/bar business tied to the Pier with customers/employees boarding the barge via the Pier is a City of Laconia jurisdictional issue much more than a State of NH issue. While docked at the Pier, the Dive's customers, employees, supplies, adult beverages, electric power, water, septic and everything else all boards and disembarks the barge via the Pier .... so it is basically an extension of the Pier ..... and the Dive has remained in that one spot for weeks at a time.

Another Laconia related Barge issue is 'where do the Barge customer's paarkk their caarrs, while at the Dive?' ...... they paarkk their caarrs, not in the waters of Lake Winnipesaukee ...... no, they paarkk their caarrs in a nearby Laconia paarkking space. So, the Dive business is very much a Laconia community issue that must be ruled by the Laconia Planning and Community Board.

[Susie Cougar]

I guess I just don’t understand how moving the barge a few hundred feet away from its present location could possibly be detrimental to their business, since this is their first year and it’s not like they’ve been there forever.

I’m not against the Dive in anyway. It has a place in Weirs Beach, for sure, as well as when it goes to Braun Bay. I think it’s great that those people don’t have to stand on the sandbar all day long.


My sons would love this!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I guess I just don’t understand how moving the barge a few hundred feet away from its present location could possibly be detrimental to their business, since this is their first year and it’s not like they’ve been there forever.

I’m not against the Dive in anyway. It has a place in Weirs Beach, for sure, as well as when it goes to Braun Bay. I think it’s great that those people don’t have to stand on the sandbar all day long.

My sons would love this!

East Coast Flightcraft, the owners of the pier may not want it moved over. Also it’s present location makes it easy for patrons to walk down the pier right into the dive.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Why should they move? They are adhering to the same rules as everyone’s the pier including the Mount regarding music noise opening and closing times ect


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I'm willing to bet if the town mandated that the Dive move to the front of the pier then it wouldn't be there next year. It's ok to block the views of residents, "they don't own the water" but it's not ok to block the view of a business. I understand about the music and business hours but when these people bought their waterfront homes there wasn't a barge blocking their view so they have a legit complaint. It's something that wasn't there before and should be subject to neighborhood objection.
If I owned one of those homes I wouldn't be happy and I'm sure you wouldn't either.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm willing to bet if the town mandated that the Dive move to the front of the pier then it wouldn't be there next year. It's ok to block the views of residents, "they don't own the water" but it's not ok to block the view of a business. I understand about the music and business hours but when these people bought their waterfront homes there wasn't a barge blocking their view so they have a legit complaint. It's something that wasn't there before and should be subject to neighborhood objection.

If I owned one of those homes I wouldn't be happy and I'm sure you wouldn't either.

Ok by that standard if I had a house with a view for 50 years and someone tried to build a home legally but it blocked my view they would be permitted to build the home? If this us the case 100s of houses on the lake would not have been built.

Also the view is only partially blocking their view and only 3 months out of the year.

Like you said they do not own the lake and they have no view easement.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Ok by that standard if I had a house with a view for 50 years and someone tried to build a home legally but it blocked my view they would be permitted to build the home? If this us the case 100s of houses on the lake would not have been built.

Also the view is only partially blocking their view and only 3 months out of the year.

Like you said they do not own the lake and they have no view easement.



Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

If you have a house on the water it would be very difficult for someone to build one blocking your view. At the premium price that you have to pay for waterfront property you should have a say in someone trying to block it.
I say, make them move it to the front of the pier.
I have business property and I'm going through this now as well as a big project across the street from me. I'm not sure if we will get the approvals but it's in a residential neighborhood so the residents should have a say. I won't be happy if I don't get the approvals but I understand the need for the process. If I was on the other side of the fence I would want a say on something that was going to affect my neighborhood and the value of my property..

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

If you have a house on the water it would be very difficult for someone to build one blocking your view. At the premium price that you have to pay for waterfront property you should have a say in someone trying to block it.

I say, make them move it to the front of the pier.

I have business property and I'm going through this now as well as a big project across the street from me. I'm not sure if we will get the approvals but it's in a residential neighborhood so the residents should have a say. I won't be happy if I don't get the approvals but I understand the need for the process. If I was on the other side of the fence I would want a say on something that was going to affect my neighborhood and the value of my property..

I didn’t say on the water I said water view but either way there are no view easements. I as well am going through this. They are building a home in front of mine which will partially block my view of the lake and there is nothing I can do about it.

As long as the Dive is legally moored and operating under local law this will but be a big waste of taxpayers money as usual. FYI the owner isn’t even a New Hampshire resident they are Florida residents.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Susie Cougar]

joey2665

I am sorry they are building a home in front of yours that will partially block your view. You personally know how this feels, and it never feels good to anyone when it happens.

But unfortunately, you can’t compare the two.

When you bought your land, you would’ve realized that if there was vacant land in front of yours that eventually there would come a time that someone would buy that land and build on it just like you did.
Something like this is anticipated. No one buying their homes who have been by the Dive could have anticipated this happening.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

joey2665

I am sorry they are building a home in front of yours that will partially block your view. You personally know how this feels, and it never feels good to anyone when it happens.

But unfortunately, you can’t compare the two.

When you bought your land, you would’ve realized that if there was vacant land in front of yours that eventually there would come a time that someone would buy that land and build on it just like you did.

Something like this is anticipated. No one buying their homes who have been by the Dive could have anticipated this happening.

We will have to agree to disagree. That pier was there long before the homes and always was an entertainment venue. Waterfront would permit them access to the water not necessarily a water view.

Oh well we will have to let the courts decide now and waste taxpayer funds that could be used for the WOW Trail.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Susie Cougar]

I am really trying to understand your point of view because obviously you feel very strongly about this.

You also stated that the owner lives in Florida. Why is this relevant? Don’t you live in New York?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I am really trying to understand your point of view because obviously you feel very strongly about this.

You also stated that the owner lives in Florida. Why is this relevant? Don’t you live in New York?

I do and as I said someone’s building in front of me partially blocking my lake view but I’m not suing anyone. He’s a part timer at best and his view is only blocked for 3 months out of the year and only while the Drive is docked. It goes to sandbars most days and comes back at sundown.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Biggd]

I have nothing against the Dive but if I had a waterfront home on Winni I would be pi$$ed if a big barge was parked in front of it every day for an extended period of time. Like I said if it's ok to block the view of the residents then it should be ok to block the view of businesses. Make them it move it to the front of the pier.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I have nothing against the Dive but if I had a waterfront home on Winni I would be pi$$ed if a big barge was parked in front of it every day for an extended period of time. Like I said if it's ok to block the view of the residents then it should be ok to block the view of businesses. Make them it move it to the front of the pier.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Why do you think that it is OK for the city to dictate where a vessel can park on the pier?

Telling the owner of a privately owned pier where they can (or can't) park a vessel on their property is opening up a whole new can of worms.

[Biggd]

Anyway, I'm surprised that Flightcraft wouldn't want to be a good neighbor and try to come to an agreement with the neighborhood. In Meredith they have posters all over the waterfront asking people to visit a website and input their views on the future of the waterfront. What they like and don't like and what they would like to see. This is the way you do things. Get people's input before just throw something out there.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Anyway, I'm surprised that Flightcraft wouldn't want to be a good neighbor and try to come to an agreement with the neighborhood. In Meredith they have posters all over the waterfront asking people to visit a website and input their views on the future of the waterfront. What they like and don't like and what they would like to see. This is the way you do things. Get people's input before just throw something out there.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Is that a municipality or private website. Big difference. The pier is private. Although I agree I put is always useful even negative input.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Mr. V]

Does the city of Laconia have the legal right to dictate where / whether the Dive barge can or cannot be tied up to a dock at the Weirs?

That is the question.

Attorney Woodbury challenges the city of Laconia's action based on an allegation of lack of jurisdiction and failure to provide proper notice.

In raising the challenges he's done nothing "wrong:" jurisdictional questions are fundamental, bedrock-like issues that underlie all administrative actions, and if the city acted beyond its authority it did so wrongly.

Let the courts decide: after all, that's their job.

At this point the issue is not whether the Dive is a nuisance, or whether it blocks someone's view; the question is whether the city of Laconia has the power, whether it has any legal business, in weighing in on the matter.

Here's a question: does the city of Laconia also feel it can regulate and has it in fact regulated where and/or whether the Mount Washington can tie up at the Weirs?

If so, what is their legal authority for doing so?

I suspect the answer is out their somewhere, buried in state statutes, regulations, and court decisions.

It will be interesting to follow this case.

[Biggd]

I'm sure it's municipal but I think flightcraft should have expected push back and done their own survey. I doubt the Dive is making them enough money to offset the bad publicity. They have done a great job improving the appearance of the pier but I think the Dive is a negative, IMO.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm sure it's municipal but I think flightcraft should have expected push back and done their own survey. I doubt the Dive is making them enough money to offset the bad publicity. They have done a great job improving the appearance of the pier but I think the Dive is a negative, IMO.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I know many that disagree. Whether on a sandbar or at the pier it gets packed very quickly especially with the 25-45 crowd. Surveys are very difficult and can be very inaccurate and if I were East Coast I would not have started a survey as it really of effects a few people and as I said there is no inherent right of view for those homes and it’s a very limited amount of time the view is impeded. I’m sure the rent is a nice offset to the improvement costs.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Biggd]

This is one of the reasons Weirs will always be the least attractive place on the lake.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

This is one of the reasons Weirs will always be the least attractive place on the lake.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

The Dive? You’re giving it way too much credit


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[fatlazyless]

Well ok, so for now it is an issue of who has jurisdiction? Is it the city as a Laconia Planning & Community Board, site plan amendment issue, or the state as a NH Marine Patrol, waterfront neighbor, blocking the neighbor's view issue?

If the Dive barge were tied to a mooring, it would be under MP jurisdiction, and before permitting that mooring the MP asks the neighbor if the boat moored out front to a new mooring will create a problem with the neighbor's view.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

The Dive? You’re giving it way too much credit


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

It's not the Dive per se, but the kind of attractions that are looked on favorably at the Weirs. They need to change direction and aim higher, so to speak, JMHO.

[joey2665]

As per the Dive Facebook page their hearing was held over til next month.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[thinkxingu]

My only issue with The Dive has been, and will only be, with how they affect others' experiences and use of an area. Showing up to one sandbar day-after-day for whole days was an affront to the people who own near, and want to use, the area. I've connected with a LOT of people at Small's Cove that were annoyed to find The Dive there every day.

That being said, is this as easy as turning The Dive sideways or putting it at the end? It appears to be an outsized version of the "bad neighbor"/"inconsiderate boater" discussion we always seem to have here.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

My only issue with The Dive has been, and will only be, with how they affect others' experiences and use of an area. Showing up to one sandbar day-after-day for whole days was an affront to the people who own near, and want to use, the area. I've connected with a LOT of people at Small's Cove that were annoyed to find The Dive there every day.

That being said, is this as easy as turning The Dive sideways or putting it at the end? It appears to be an outsized version of the "bad neighbor"/"inconsiderate boater" discussion we always seem to have here.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I could say the same about many captain boneheads on the lake that at times negatively affect my lake experience.

As many have said no one owns the lake and the Dive did make a concerted effort to travel to different sandbars this year and was not at Smalls everyday.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[webmaster]

After 400 posts this thread is closed. Please open new threads to discuss The Dive and related topics.