The Dive?

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yeah, that's it--prima donnas. There's a fine line between walking the beach without shirt and shoes and sitting at a restaurant/bar table--which is why every restaurant (and store?) has the no shirt, no shoes, no service expectation.

If not wanting Vinnie's gynecomastic curlies in my face (or sandwich) makes me a prima donna, I'll gladly sport the moniker.

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Have you ever taken a walk to the "back" of your favorite restaurant where no one ever sees??? I realize there are "codes" they have to live by, but it's usually just on the day the inspector is coming! Do you carry a bottle of hand sanitizer around in your purse??? Although I will admit that I try to avoid "public" bathrooms. Only use them as a "last resort" (which is usually in the city) and thankfully I don't spend much time in the city. I would rather go outside than use a public bathroom. Much easier when you are surrounded by woods than buildings...

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Have you ever taken a walk to the "back" of your favorite restaurant where no one ever sees??? I realize there are "codes" they have to live by, but it's usually just on the day the inspector is coming!

I can not say for sure, but I would be VERY surprised if any restaurant "knew when inspectors were coming". At least I hope they don't .

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yeah, that's it--prima donnas. There's a fine line between walking the beach without shirt and shoes and sitting at a restaurant/bar table--which is why every restaurant (and store?) has the no shirt, no shoes, no service expectation.

If not wanting Vinnie's gynecomastic curlies in my face (or sandwich) makes me a prima donna, I'll gladly sport the moniker.

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Isn't calling these guys "Vinnie" kinda stereotyping? Besides, I would much rather be high and dry with the risk of a few flying chest hairs, than hanging out in the water with 100's of people disposing of their beer...

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I would much rather be high and dry with the risk of a few flying chest hairs, than hanging out in the water with 100's of people disposing of their beer...

Fair point!

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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

If that's the site I'll see when visiting, I'm even less inclined to patronize The Dive. Ugh, gross. It's like going to a nude beach--it's never the good stuff you see. Put a shirt and shoes on, and keep your graying chest hair out of my margarita.

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I agree! But I wouldn’t patronize the dive because of that scene...I would stay away so that no one was grossed out by me!
Back hair and bunions are not everyone’s cup o’ tea!

[Call of the Isle]

Our daughter & son-in-law took a jet ski over to The Dive yesterday. Boats anchored & tied up all around it. They had to swim to get to it. Upstairs was a nice lounge area with couches, TV, fire pit. There’s an app (The Dive NH) for ordering drive-thru food. Nice variety, expensive as you’d imagine.
They didn’t stay long as “parking” was an issue (quite crowded, so there’s lots who will try it out.) This was on a Friday afternoon, too. She noted that there was a good amount of oil in the water; she had to clean it from her PFD later.
Wondering what neighbors think of it...


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[loonguy]

"Wondering what neighbors think of it..."


This is a very polite way of saying it sure looks like a public nuisance to me, and I agree. Do they change the location daily, or are the unfortunate neighbors stuck with this every day?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by loonguy

"Wondering what neighbors think of it..."


This is a very polite way of saying it sure looks like a public nuisance to me, and I agree. Do they change the location daily, or are the unfortunate neighbors stuck with this every day?

That was my question. Although I think I will enjoy it on occasion, I do not think they should be in the same location everyday as it can be an issue for neighbors. Hopefully they will venture past Smalls Cove soon

[Momdip]

Originally Posted by joey2665

That was my question. Although I think I will enjoy it on occasion, I do not think they should be in the same location everyday as it can be an issue for neighbors. Hopefully they will venture past Smalls Cove soon

We look at it directly across from or little island home and it is indeed an eyesore...daily! While I love seeing boaters at the sand bar. This thing is huge and seriously dampers the beautiful backdrop view we loved. That being said, I realize the business venture of The Dive and the boaters need/desire (who don't own land property) to have a service such as this. I feel if it would have a set schedule and not just be in Smalls Cove from 730 am to 1000 pm and rotate around to other locations, it wouldn't be such s big deal. At night, I can tell you the whole feel of looking out at the stars and moon is ruined by that stupid rotating neon sign.

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[thinkxingu]

The sandbar there isn't very big--anybody estimate how this affects anchoring? I'm assuming the same rules apply, so I'm thinking it displaces a lot of potential visitors. We were planning on heading over today, but it's hard enough to find a spot already.

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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The sandbar there isn't very big--anybody estimate how this affects anchoring? I'm assuming the same rules apply, so I'm thinking it displaces a lot of potential visitors. We were planning on heading over today, but it's hard enough to find a spot already.

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According to their app they will be at Smalls Cove again today 7/29. Time TBD.


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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The sandbar there isn't very big--anybody estimate how this affects anchoring? I'm assuming the same rules apply, so I'm thinking it displaces a lot of potential visitors. We were planning on heading over today, but it's hard enough to find a spot already.

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Like anything else “worthwhile doing” nowadays, you have to go early, stake out a spot, and try to enjoy while everyone else is doing the same thing!

[upthesaukee]

It's a minimal problem, and if the boaters get crowded up, The Dive could offer the MP a coffee and donut, and all week be fine.

Dave

[Biggd]

I know I wouldn't be too happy if this thing was sitting out in front of my waterfront every day. Personally I dob't see how they allow this monstrosity on the lake but that's just my opinion.

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[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I know I wouldn't be too happy if this thing was sitting out in front of my waterfront every day. Personally I dob't see how they allow this monstrosity on the lake but that's just my opinion.

Total agreement. Eyesore. That said, doubt there's much that can be done about it.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Total agreement. Eyesore. That said, doubt there's much that can be done about it.

Eyesore, earsore, oil-leak-sore.

I'm not sure there's nothing that can be done. Based on the reports in this thread, I'd bet neighbors are already working mighty hard to find state or local laws to squeeze these guys.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Eyesore, earsore, oil-leak-sore.



I'm not sure there's nothing that can be done. Based on the reports in this thread, I'd bet neighbors are already working mighty hard to find state or local laws to squeeze these guys.

Season is short. If they just move to different locations on a daily basis I think everyone would be happy.


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[Outdoorsman]

They have been in operation for ~2 weeks and already the NIMBY people are rising to the surface.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Season is short. If they just move to different locations on a daily basis I think everyone would be happy.


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Everyone except for the people with homes near wherever they happen to be on a given day. I do not see why the novelty of being able to buy a hamburger from a boat should take precedence over others' more peaceful enjoyment.

And with respect to the NIMBY comment, The Dive is not in my backyard, but I am sympathetic to those facing it.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Everyone except for the people with homes near wherever they happen to be on a given day. I do not see why the novelty of being able to buy a hamburger from a boat should take precedence over others' more peaceful enjoyment.

And with respect to the NIMBY comment, The Dive is not in my backyard, but I am sympathetic to those facing it.

Hence the problem...

This is a NEW HAMPSHIRE business. It faced, AND WAS GRANTED, many NEW HAMPSHIRE LICENSES (Food License granted, Alcohol License granted, MP (or coast guard) signed off on their business model.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Everyone except for the people with homes near wherever they happen to be on a given day. I do not see why the novelty of being able to buy a hamburger from a boat should take precedence over others' more peaceful enjoyment.

And with respect to the NIMBY comment, The Dive is not in my backyard, but I am sympathetic to those facing it.

I agee whole heartedly. I don't have to look at it but many people that own their own waterfront property do. Like anything else on the water, if there are too many complaints then the licences won't get renewed. The big lake is just turning into a money pit now. I always thought I would search for another place on Winni but over the past few years I'm happy to be on a quieter and safer lake Waukewan. I put my boat in Winni once a year on father's day weekend when I have a bunch of old friends up and it's crazy out on the water then.
After that it goes in Waukewan for the season and we chill.

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[Momo]

I am happy everyone gets to enjoy our beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee. However, people who own lakefront property pay a “view tax”. Will there be a rebate for those who have to look at The DIVE day and night? And speaking of night... what about their ridiculous rotating light pole which looks like Vegas?
Viva Las Winnipesaukee....

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Momo

I am happy everyone gets to enjoy our beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee. However, people who own lakefront property pay a “view tax”. Will there be a rebate for those who have to look at The DIVE day and night? And speaking of night... what about their ridiculous rotating light pole which looks like Vegas?
Viva Las Winnipesaukee....

Do they have pole dancers?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Momo

I am happy everyone gets to enjoy our beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee. However, people who own lakefront property pay a “view tax”.

Hopefully you were kidding. People often state this or claim there is a "waterfront tax". There is no "view tax" or "waterfront tax" in any community on the lake.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Hopefully you were kidding. People often state this or claim there is a "waterfront tax". There is no "view tax" or "waterfront tax" in any community on the lake.

Not officially.


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Hopefully you were kidding. People often state this or claim there is a "waterfront tax". There is no "view tax" or "waterfront tax" in any community on the lake.

It's not written in as a view tax but when they come to your house to reassess, the view is taken to account in the value of your property just as it does when a realtor comes out to appraise it. Obviously homes that have an extraordinary view are worth more, whether it be a view of the lake or a mountain top view.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Hopefully you were kidding. People often state this or claim there is a "waterfront tax". There is no "view tax" or "waterfront tax" in any community on the lake.

Tilton you are absolutely correct. This is a common misnomer, however towns tend to be extremely liberal in the assessment values when there is Lake front or lake view property.


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[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Hopefully you were kidding. People often state this or claim there is a "waterfront tax". There is no "view tax" or "waterfront tax" in any community on the lake.

But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck! A simple review of the tax card of any property with waterfront and / or “views” will clearly show that these significantly add to the assessed value of said property.

[noreast]

I've haven't heard anyone complain about the value when they sell.

[tis]

That's not exactly true. For a while and maybe still they did put right on the tax card extra for the "view". In the old days you were taxed more for a view but it didn't get "spelled" out. That is why so many people got very upset in recent years, when they realized they were actually paying for their view.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by tis

That's not exactly true. For a while and maybe still they did put right on the tax card extra for the "view". In the old days you were taxed more for a view but it didn't get "spelled" out. That is why so many people got very upset in recent years, when they realized they were actually paying for their view.

I can tell you there is no “view tax” in Laconia. I have bills for two properties, one with and one without and the rates are identical.


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[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

That's not exactly true. For a while and maybe still they did put right on the tax card extra for the "view". In the old days you were taxed more for a view but it didn't get "spelled" out. That is why so many people got very upset in recent years, when they realized they were actually paying for their view.

The Town of Gilford does not have a view tax and the City of Laconia has never had a view tax.

In Gilford, if you are on the water it is assumed that you have a view and it is not spelled out or listed on your tax card. There may be properties, not on the water, that have "view" listed on their tax card for purposes of determining the value of the property but there is not a "view tax". Although the view may be used to help determine what the value of your property is, the assessed value is determined by the overall value of the property. The current Equalization Rate in Gilford is 95.9% and the tax rate is $17.26 per thousand.

I have properties on the water in Gilford and Laconia and the view is not now, and has never been, mentioned anywhere in the assessment including on the tax card.

[tis]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The Town of Gilford does not have a view tax and the City of Laconia has never had a view tax.

In Gilford, if you are on the water it is assumed that you have a view and it is not spelled out or listed on your tax card. There may be properties, not on the water, that have "view" listed on their tax card for purposes of determining the value of the property but there is not a "view tax". Although the view may be used to help determine what the value of your property is, the assessed value is determined by the overall value of the property. The current Equalization Rate in Gilford is 95.9% and the tax rate is $17.26 per thousand.

I have properties on the water in Gilford and Laconia and the view is not now, and has never been, mentioned anywhere in the assessment including on the tax card.

You should read this thread. I think you will find it interesting.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ment#post45649

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by noreast

I've haven't heard anyone complain about the value when they sell.

Assessed value and market value are two entirely different values. Assessed values are usually less than market but when compared on a percentage basis to the market value the homes that have views or waterfront are higher or more closer to market than homes without any view.

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread .

The lake is big with many coves and sandbars they really need to change locations daily as to be fare to people who live in those locations. As stated above if the State decides this business is too much of a distractions or nuisance they will not renew their license


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[dippasan]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Everyone except for the people with homes near wherever they happen to be on a given day. I do not see why the novelty of being able to buy a hamburger from a boat should take precedence over others' more peaceful enjoyment.

And with respect to the NIMBY comment, The Dive is not in my backyard, but I am sympathetic to those facing it.

My neighbors and I stare at that vinyl sided apartment building on the sandbar all day every day. Not to mention the rotating "Dive" sign and all the lights that are on until 9:30-10 pm. If it came in for a few hours and moved along....no problem.
That said I can't even imagine what the homeowners just outside Smalls Cove are thinking. They've gone from having a great view of the lake and watching the sunset from the end of their dock, to staring at that thing blocking their view.....all day!

I don't want it to fail, I'd just like to see it visit and move along.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by dippasan

My neighbors and I stare at that vinyl sided apartment building on the sandbar all day every day. Not to mention the rotating "Dive" sign and all the lights that are on until 9:30-10 pm. If it came in for a few hours and moved along....no problem.
That said I can't even imagine what the homeowners just outside Smalls Cove are thinking. They've gone from having a great view of the lake and watching the sunset from the end of their dock, to staring at that thing blocking their view.....all day!

I don't want it to fail, I'd just like to see it visit and move along.

Very commendable of you. Did you try contacting this to ask if they plan on moving around and rotating their locations? I would think they do not want a huge backlash or calls to the MP or State so they may react very favorably to a few owners in the Small Cove area voicing their concerns in a civil manner.

[Taz]

Say the Dive was going to Braun Bay. How long would it take to go from WAM to Braun? It seems like it would be awful slow and maybe not feasible to go that far. There are not many areas it could go to be profitable. I think 3, Braun, Smalls, Margate sand bars and Braun, Margate maybe not feasible to go to, take too long to get there and back, also not sure how it would handle a rough water day were it to travel. Smalls maybe its only feasible option.

[Momo]

I do not want any good business in NH to fail, and agree with previous posts that the Dive should alternate their location to where boaters anchor rather than just being in Smalls Cove.... perhaps Wolfeboro or the bridge by Governors Island?

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Taz

Say the Dive was going to Braun Bay. How long would it take to go from WAM to Braun? It seems like it would be awful slow and maybe not feasible to go that far. There are not many areas it could go to be profitable. I think 3, Braun, Smalls, Margate sand bars and Braun, Margate maybe not feasible to go to, take too long to get there and back, also not sure how it would handle a rough water day were it to travel. Smalls maybe its only feasible option.

Uhhh...I don’t think the dive would make it under the Wiers channel bridge...

[loonguy]

Am I correct that boat lighting is limited by law to approved navigation lights, i.e. one white light when anchored? Is there some special rule that would permit the extensive lighting on The Dive?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by loonguy

Am I correct that boat lighting is limited by law to approved navigation lights, i.e. one white light when anchored? Is there some special rule that would permit the extensive lighting on The Dive?

I would say it's the same set of rules that apply to the Mt. Washington.

[Biggd]

I have no dog in this fight because I'm not on Winni but I really have to question the judgement of the officials that granted the permits for this floating monstrosity. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Taz]

Then you have made my point, that eliminates another busy area they could move to if its even feasible distance wise or if it can handle a rough water day. Now we are down to 2 areas it could anchor that would make money, Smalls and Braun. And I seriously question if they would even consider Braun due to distance. At the speed it probably moves at it may take 3 hours to get there and 3 hours back and if its rough longer or maybe it can not even go on a rough day, can you imagine taking 3, 4 footers in the Broads that it could encounter.

Some one mentioned Wolfeboro or Govenors Island Bridge. They are never going to go there, not enough business and no sand bar so patrons or boat drivers can walk to it. Also do you need some kind of permitting in each town, inspections? Maybe other towns it would consider moving to will not allow it? Smalls maybe it. Maybe its not moving anywhere else.

[Biggd]

Maybe they should just scuttle it in the Witches and have rubber power rafts to bring the food out to your boat.

[fatlazyless]

How's about stand up paddle boards paddled by servers who paddle with one arm, and support a bar tray with adult beverages with the other arm!

Sounds like a fun idea and the 60' barge could just drop anchor in deeper waters, and not be needing a shallow sandbar?

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

How's about stand up paddle boards paddled by servers who paddle with one arm, and support a bar tray with adult beverages with the other arm!

As Billy Preston sang....Will It Go Round In Circles?

[loonguy]

"How's about stand up paddle boards paddled by servers who paddle with one arm, and support a bar tray with adult beverages with the other arm!"

Now I would pay to see that!

[HellRaZoR004]

You can clearly tell it's a Monday...very cranky bunch with a clear NIMBY agenda. The same story with the speed limit, I don't like it so therefore lets pass a regulation so others can't enjoy the resource.

Instead of complaining on the forum do something. If you don't like it and think it impacts your quality of life, well then you should not have purchased land on a public waterway. If you really believe it impacts your "view tax" then I'm sure you could easily sell it for a discount.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Taz

Say the Dive was going to Braun Bay. How long would it take to go from WAM to Braun? It seems like it would be awful slow and maybe not feasible to go that far. There are not many areas it could go to be profitable. I think 3, Braun, Smalls, Margate sand bars and Braun, Margate maybe not feasible to go to, take too long to get there and back, also not sure how it would handle a rough water day were it to travel. Smalls maybe its only feasible option.

I haven't seen it up close but I doubt that would make it through the channel and under the Weirs bridge.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Taz

Say the Dive was going to Braun Bay. How long would it take to go from WAM to Braun? It seems like it would be awful slow and maybe not feasible to go that far. There are not many areas it could go to be profitable. I think 3, Braun, Smalls, Margate sand bars and Braun, Margate maybe not feasible to go to, take too long to get there and back, also not sure how it would handle a rough water day were it to travel. Smalls maybe its only feasible option.

My original suspicions have now been confirmed. A Facebook post from the Dive Facebook page posted on I Boat on Lake Winnipesaukee (IBOLW) confirmed that Dive owners have told WAM members that the Dive is so underpowered it will take 3 hrs to get to any other sandbar and it was not suppose to be kept at WAM. Not sure where else it would be kept. Because of this it will not be moving from Smalls anytime soon.

I also agree with Phantom. I do not see the Dive surviving. Unless they can do enough charters, private functions to supplement the sandbar days and that is if they can repower it as it can not get out of its own way now. Season is too short. I don't think there will be enough customers to brave the cold water to walk to the Dive early and late season. That leaves July and August and maybe a weekend or 2 in September but even then many people stop coming to the lake after Labor Day.

There has also been a lot of banter on IBOLW regarding the marine patrol ticketing many patrons because of there being more boats at Smalls so boats are anchored too close to shore in a NRZ, too many boats tied together etc. Home owners have been calling marine patrol to complain and marine patrol has responded with much more ticketing at Smalls than ever before.

I did give it a try myself. The server Naomi was very good, the staff very attentive. However, the drinks were average in quality, size and above average in price. The food no better than any other establishment at any of the town docks. I agree with others its a "novelty" and I would not go back when I have my own boat, can serve my own cold beer and cocktails on my own boat, serve my own BBQ food on my own boat for much less money and go somewhere much quieter to do it.

I wish them well and hope I am wrong but at this time they have a lot issues to resolve to make it work.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Taz

………... it will take 3 hrs to get to any other sandbar and it was not suppose to be kept at WAM. Not sure where else it would be kept.


There has also been a lot of banter on IBOLW regarding the marine patrol ticketing many patrons because of there being more boats at Smalls so boats are anchored too close to shore in a NRZ, too many boats tied together etc.
.

The one thought we came up with is that the owners work a deal with both WAM & Watermark in Paugus Bay. If they could secure dockage rights at Watermark then on a Monday (during the day & typically the slowest of days during the week) they could transit to Paugus and be operational at the Margate the next day. Then reverse the scenario the following week. Just a thought !



To your other comment about MP -- the Day we went, just as the Dive got firmly settled and in place, to my laughter, a MP patrol boat showed up --- I will give them KUDO's for all he did was (verbally) push people out of the shoreline 150' spacing and was gone for the rest of the day ……………….. my personal opinion is that a few people make a real loud noise about MP "picking" on them & ticketing -- most times we have observed this season is always simply a verbal. After all - the law is the Law and it is pretty well marked with buoys. if no room -- come earlier!



Again -- I like the Dive -- wish them well and hope to take many a visiting guest there for a kick for an hour (on their dime hopefully) !

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Taz

My original suspicions have now been confirmed. A Facebook post from the Dive Facebook page posted on I Boat on Lake Winnipesaukee (IBOLW) confirmed that Dive owners have told WAM members that the Dive is so underpowered it will take 3 hrs to get to any other sandbar and it was not suppose to be kept at WAM. Not sure where else it would be kept. Because of this it will not be moving from Smalls anytime soon. I also agree with Phantom. I do not see the Dive surviving. Unless they can do enough charters, private functions to supplement the sandbar days and that is if they can repower it as it can not get out of its own way now. Season is too short. I don't think there will be enough customers to brave the cold water to walk to the Dive early and late season. That leaves July and August and maybe a weekend or 2 in September but even then many people stop coming to the lake after Labor Day. There has also been a lot of banter on IBOLW regarding the marine patrol ticketing many patrons because of there being more boats at Smalls so boats are anchored too close to shore in a NRZ, too many boats tied together etc. Home owners have been calling marine patrol to complain and marine patrol has responded with much more ticketing at Smalls than ever before. I did give it a try myself. The server Naomi was very good, the staff very attentive. However, the drinks were average in quality, size and above average in price. The food no better than any other establishment at any of the town docks. I agree with others its a "novelty" and I would not go back when I have my own boat, can serve my own cold beer and cocktails on my own boat, serve my own BBQ food on my own boat for much less money and go somewhere much quieter to do it. I wish them well and hope I am wrong but at this time they have a lot issues to resolve to make it work.

I failed to recall what power unit they had, but a work barge came by with a big bow wave.

"The Dive" should look into this one!

[fatlazyless]

With so many guests on-board, why not just ask for volunteers to paddle using long sup style paddles ...... like .....helloooooo everybody ...... we can use a little help here getting our barge from our West Alton home all the way down to that Center Harbor Inn ...... paddl'n is so much great exercise .... a real workout ..... look'n for volunteers here ...... we can use a little help ......who wants to just give paddl'n a wee bit of a go? ..... don't-a be a-bashful ..... paddl'n is so much fun ..... the crew that paddles together ..... drinks together

With so many guests on-board ..... is a great source of free paddl'n labor ....... stroke-stroke-stroke!


Will paddle for beer .....anyone?


In 2009, the MS Mount Washington was able to re-power their 1940's diesel that went wush-wush-wush with a $750,000 Caterpillar diesel that goes bzzzzzzz ...... and got it basically for free courtesy of the Cash for Clunkers federal program ....... so's maybe The Dive can do the same ..... and get a John Deere, made in Moline, Illinois, make america great again, marine diesel courtesy the federal government ....... yes? ...... for almost free?

In the mean time ...... a-just a-keep on paddl'n ....... to the tune of Michael row the boat ashore ...... hallelujuh ...... Sister, help to trim the sails ..... hallelujuh ..... we need more paddlers ... so much fun ..... who wants to paddle? ...... The Dive .... one, great big stand up paddle board, 62' x 24' ..... all together now .....just paddle! ...... how much further till we get there?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

With so many guests on-board, why not just ask for volunteers to paddle using long sup style paddles ...... like .....helloooooo everybody ...... we can use a little help here getting our barge from our West Alton home all the way down to that Center Harbor Inn ...... paddl'n is so much great exercise .... a real workout ..... look'n for volunteers here ...... we can use a little help ......who wants to just give paddl'n a wee bit of a go? ..... don't-a be a-bashful ..... paddl'n is so much fun ..... the crew that paddles together ..... drinks together

With so many guests on-board ..... is a great source of free paddl'n labor ....... stroke-stroke-stroke!


Will paddle for beer .....anyone?


In 2009, the MS Mount Washington was able to re-power their 1940's diesel that went wush-wush-wush with a $750,000 Caterpillar diesel that goes bzzzzzzz ...... and got it basically for free courtesy of the Cash for Clunkers federal program ....... so's maybe The Dive can do the same ..... and get a John Deere, made in Moline, Illinois, make america great again, marine diesel courtesy the federal government ....... yes? ...... for almost free?

In the mean time ...... a-just a-keep on paddl'n ....... to the tune of Michael row the boat ashore ...... hallelujuh ...... Sister, help to trim the sails ..... hallelujuh ..... we need more paddlers ... so much fun ..... who wants to paddle? ...... The Dive .... one, great big stand up paddle board, 62' x 24' ..... all together now .....just paddle! ...... how much further till we get there?

You are a navel engineering genius.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You are a navel engineering genius.

.....you are so totally, totally, totally correct ...... absolutely, positively, absolutely!

And, besides getting about ten long handled paddles for any guests who want to volunteer to paddle ...... The Dive could go purchase an el cheapo ..... mast, boom and sail .... from craigslist-nh ..... size: extra large ..... and put that wind to work for them ..... after all .....the wind is free ........ SAIL HO...... arrgghh! ..... sailing three sheets to the windward seems like a good course for The Dive!

Having a sail could be a good new energy source for moving their business along. Who knows ..... maybe a bright red sail would really look good, sailing down the lake, as the sun sinks slowly into the west ...... ker-plunk ..... splash ..... seems to happen every day?

The Dive, needing more powerful engines than what it had, decided to add a large mast, boom and sail in an effort to capture the wind. Little did they know that raising a large, bright red, triangular sail, high above their barge would serve like a big, red advertising banner, and go a long way for powering up their business ....... SALES HO .....oops .... make that SAILS HO .....and off they sailed, up and down the big lake, happily powered by a big, bright red sail .....

THE DIVE; not just a $12-beer on a barge-restaurant ....... it's a power-paddle-sail adventure ..... to get it there ......and back ...... yo-heave-ho .... now, shut up and paddle!

[ursa minor]

This isn't a situation where the Dive is "underpowered" so much as how the power gets to the water and some basic principles of naval architecture. Also, note that even with double the power (it has 2, 300 HP Evinrude outboards now) it really wouldn't make a huge difference in speed.

As a displacement vessel, the length of the waterline dictates what the maximum practical speed will be, increasing the power above whatever is calculated to be required to produce "hull speed" will only increase the top speed a small amount even with a significant increase in power.

As has been noted in an earlier post, Diversified Contracting has a similar sized barge with twin 250 HP outboards. I've watched it go by our place many times, the operator runs those engines HARD and even with that I'd guess top speed is between 10 - 12 mph. It sounds to my ear as if the propellers cavitate a fair amount while doing so. Using Diversified's barge as an example, it looks like the Dive is similar in length and has roughly the same power so top speed would be in the same general range of 10-12 mph.

If they're not getting to 10 mph or so, I'm guessing part of the problem could be getting the propellers to convert the power available into actual thrust. The barge that APS referenced looks like it's powered by a pusher tug. If so, that likely has a diesel engine turning a much larger diameter and slower turning propeller that can get a better bite on the water to push the barge. Tough do that with engines designed for pleasure boats that turn small diameter propellers at high speed.

[JADAQ]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

This isn't a situation where the Dive is "underpowered" so much as how the power gets to the water and some basic principles of naval architecture. Also, note that even with double the power (it has 2, 300 HP Evinrude outboards now) it really wouldn't make a huge difference in speed.

As a displacement vessel, the length of the waterline dictates what the maximum practical speed will be, increasing the power above whatever is calculated to be required to produce "hull speed" will only increase the top speed a small amount even with a significant increase in power.

As has been noted in an earlier post, Diversified Contracting has a similar sized barge with twin 250 HP outboards. I've watched it go by our place many times, the operator runs those engines HARD and even with that I'd guess top speed is between 10 - 12 mph. It sounds to my ear as if the propellers cavitate a fair amount while doing so. Using Diversified's barge as an example, it looks like the Dive is similar in length and has roughly the same power so top speed would be in the same general range of 10-12 mph.

If they're not getting to 10 mph or so, I'm guessing part of the problem could be getting the propellers to convert the power available into actual thrust. The barge that APS referenced looks like it's powered by a pusher tug. If so, that likely has a diesel engine turning a much larger diameter and slower turning propeller that can get a better bite on the water to push the barge. Tough do that with engines designed for pleasure boats that turn small diameter propellers at high speed.

I believe they are twin “250” Evinrudes

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

THE DIVE; not just a $12-beer on a barge-restaurant ....... it's a power-paddle-sail adventure ..... to get it there ......and back ...... yo-heave-ho .... now, shut up and paddle!

Would it be similar to these guys rowing?

Something went wrong with this video so I deleted the embed code.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Would it be similar to these guys rowing?

….yes, something like that ….. men, woman, kids, grandma, grandpa, all together rowing The Dive …… rowing is actually fun, fun, fun ….. especially when there's a Guinness a-waiting for you, up-top

….. beats the heck out of just sitting there, sipping a beer, and watching the shoreline homes unroll


….. all together now ….. let's all row in three part harmony …. and longer oars that are pinned are actually easier to row with better results …. no feathering needed! So, it is stroke-stroke-stroke-stroke-stroke as opposed to stroke-feather-stroke-feather-stroke-feather-stroke-feather...… capiche!


….those slaves in the video here ….. are they feathering? …. no …. and, it's working very very well for them! Is hard to tell, but most likely their oars have been pinned, or held by a pin in the oar lock, in one position for easier rowing. So, who wants to row hard for 40-minutes for a Guinness?
…….

So, what's the real price tag for the two Evinrude 300-hp outboards like they have ….. as opposed to finding a decent used marine diesel that turns a longer, wider propeller at a slower speed with a better bite?

Is the real price tag …… their going out of business and closing The Dive ….. stay tuned ….. is a lot easier to paddle a paddle?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Would it be similar to these guys rowing?

Please don't feed the duck.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Very commendable of you. Did you try contacting this to ask if they plan on moving around and rotating their locations? I would think they do not want a huge backlash or calls to the MP or State so they may react very favorably to a few owners in the Small Cove area voicing their concerns in a civil manner.

I dunno, man, shouldn't the operators of the Dive know enough not to bring that type of presence to that type of area all the time (the key is ALL the time). That would be akin to music-blasting-wake-surfing in Lee's Mills.

I'm on record as not loving The Dive idea--I don't think it matches the history and style of the lake--but also understand it's a business and that whether it succeeds or fails will depend on how many people like it (and I may very well be in the minority).

At the minimum, I think the operators should be thoughtful enough to consider their impact in terms of sight, sounds, lighting, traffic, and environment on the areas they are using.

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[thinkxingu]

Awesome.
^ sarcasm

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[The Real BigGuy]

I wouldn’t be surprised if, just like no rafting zone regs, something gets a hearing in January and severe limits are put on the Dive. I am a waterfront owner and sure wouldn’t want it in front of my place every night.


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[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I wouldn’t be surprised if, just like no rafting zone regs, something gets a hearing in January and severe limits are put on the Dive. I am a waterfront owner and sure wouldn’t want it in front of my place every night.


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Perfect - so absolutely cripple a business venture and material investment of some young entrepreneurs because they obeyed the law and obtained all necessary permits/approvals.

I get the frustration from the landowner perspective even though it doesn't affect me, but maybe the landowner should've fought for a law before something like this happened. It's a slippery slope but the fact is these people were first to capture this opportunity and the landowners are behind. In my eyes, it wouldn't be fair to cripple the monetary amounts and time invested by these folks that started this business.

[codeman671]

I like the concept and welcome it on the lake, however would be pissed if it was in front of my property every day. I assume they are still working out the bugs, and on better weather days they will venture out further. I am sure in Braun Bay this would do well. Its just a matter of getting it there. Leave early and stay late. If they tried to travel towards the Weirs Channel on a busy Saturday afternoon they are going to be in rough shape. Get there early and boat the crew out separately from a closer location so they are not eating so much in labor while traveling (unless they have guests along for the ride).

Lets face it, the weather hasn't been great for the last week. If on every nice weekend this is sitting at West Alton they better rethink their plan.

[noreast]

If they got this approved without stating that it will be in this spot only there is no way in hell it would get approved, if it did and the land owners weren't notified, then they have every right to be pissed. I don't think they built this thing to sit at that sandbar only, That would be insane. Any one who calls this a NIMBY issues is full of crap, you would complain just as much.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by noreast

If they got this approved without stating that it will be in this spot only there is no way in hell it would get approved, if it did and the land owners weren't notified, then they have every right to be pissed. I don't think they built this thing to sit at that sandbar only, That would be insane. Any one who calls this a NIMBY issues is full of crap, you would complain just as much.

This statement makes absolutely zero sense...consider re-wording if you're trying to state that it wouldn't have been approved if they stated it would only stay in one place.

Separately - why do the landowners need to be notified if this is a vessel on the water?

[noreast]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

This statement makes absolutely zero sense...consider re-wording if you're trying to state that it wouldn't have been approved if they stated it would only stay in one place.

Separately - why do the landowners need to be notified if this is a vessel on the water?

It's a little more than a vessel on the water, Making a statement like that invalidates any opinion you offer. Would they notify them if they said the Mount is going to parked there forever? I meant exactly what i said.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by noreast

It's a little more than a vessel on the water, Making a statement like that invalidates any opinion you offer. Would they notify them if they said the Mount is going to parked there forever? I meant exactly what i said.

Okay captain - go back and re-read the first sentence you wrote in the post that I quoted. You tell me whether that makes sense...but yet any opinion I offer is invalidated.........

Here - I'll repost it here so you don't have to go back again:

If they got this approved without stating that it will be in this spot only there is no way in hell it would get approved, if it did and the land owners weren't notified, then they have every right to be pissed.

[Justmee]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I like the concept and welcome it on the lake, however would be pissed if it was in front of my property every day. I assume they are still working out the bugs, and on better weather days they will venture out further. I am sure in Braun Bay this would do well. Its just a matter of getting it there. Leave early and stay late. If they tried to travel towards the Weirs Channel on a busy Saturday afternoon they are going to be in rough shape. Get there early and boat the crew out separately from a closer location so they are not eating so much in labor while traveling (unless they have guests along for the ride).

Lets face it, the weather hasn't been great for the last week. If on every nice weekend this is sitting at West Alton they better rethink their plan.

Regardless of the commercial viability of this endeavor, in Braun Bay the situation is not different. NO ONE WANTS IT THERE! This business fails to realize that each property owner has hundreds of thousands to lose in depreciation, and combined together, what we are willing to invest in getting rid of this will dwarf the costs of 5 barges.

The tension between boaters and homeowners is a delicate balance. I doubt The Dive understands what they are stepping into.

From the boater's perspective, accounting for Braun Bay rafting/spacing rules, this vessel will displace a large number of boaters during the sunshine hours and make that crowd quite upset as well.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Justmee

Regardless of the commercial viability of this endeavor in Braun Bay, the situation is not different. NO ONE WANTS IT THERE! This business fails to realize that each property owner has hundreds of thousands to lose in depreciation, and combined what we are willing to invest in getting rid of this will dwarf the costs of 5 barges.

The tension between boaters and homeowners is a delicate balance. I doubt The Dive understands what they are stepping into.

Quite a sweeping statement. “No One”. That would just be your opinion. I’m sure many of the people that frequent Braun Bay would welcome the Dive., but that’s just my opinion.

Remember just because you own waterfront doesn’t mean you own the water. Full disclosure I own waterfront.

Again the key for the Dive should be a delicate balance and not anchoring-in the same location too many days in a row.


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[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Perfect - so absolutely cripple a business venture and material investment of some young entrepreneurs because they obeyed the law and obtained all necessary permits/approvals.



I get the frustration from the landowner perspective even though it doesn't affect me, but maybe the landowner should've fought for a law before something like this happened. It's a slippery slope but the fact is these people were first to capture this opportunity and the landowners are behind. In my eyes, it wouldn't be fair to cripple the monetary amounts and time invested by these folks that started this business.

You misunderstand my point. Almost every year it seems a group of property owners get together to petition for a no rafting zone and the DES/state schedule the hearing in December or January when no one is around to oppose. With no opposition it passes. I can see the same thing happening with the Dive if the continue to anchor in the same place, bothering the same people.

My other comment: I own waterfront but nowhere near where they are. I wouldn’t want them in front of me.

In the long run, I think the issues will be resolved during re-permitting. This is obviously a new and different venture and the state didn’t know all the questions to be asked or what all the issues might be. After several months of operation they will be better informed.


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

You misunderstand my point. Almost every year it seems a group of property owners get together to petition for a no rafting zone and the DES/state schedule the hearing in December or January when no one is around to oppose. With no opposition it passes. I can see the same thing happening with the Dive if the continue to anchor in the same place, bothering the same people.

My other comment: I own waterfront but nowhere near where they are. I wouldn’t want them in front of me.

In the long run, I think the issues will be resolved during re-permitting. This is obviously a new and different venture and the state didn’t know all the questions to be asked or what all the issues might be. After several months of operation they will be better informed.


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I know I would be pi$$ed if it was parked all day in front of my waterfront home. I don't think it should have been permitted in the first place but now that it is and they hear the complaints hopefully the issues can be resolved.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I know I would be pi$$ed if it was parked all day in front of my waterfront home. I don't think it should have been permitted in the first place but now that it is and they hear the complaints hopefully the issues can be resolved.

If you are of the opinion that it should not have been permitted there would need to be a valid legal reason to deny them. I don't want to see them on my favorite sandbar or anchored in front of my house is not sufficient reason to stop them from their business venture.

If they did get denied in the future for the renewal of any of the necessary food, alcohol, or other permits they could point to the Mt Washington and claim they were doing the same thing (selling food and alcohol) but in a different manner. That might give them significant legal grounds to stand up to any challenge.

If it is a financial success, and that remains to be seen, it will take violations of regulations or other significant complaints with a legal basis to stop them from continuing to do business. Otherwise it is here to stay.

Only time will tell.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If you are of the opinion that it should not have been permitted there would need to be a valid legal reason to deny them. I don't want to see them on my favorite sandbar or anchored in front of my house is not sufficient reason to stop them from their business venture.

If they did get denied in the future for the renewal of any of the necessary food, alcohol, or other permits they could point to the Mt Washington and claim they were doing the same thing (selling food and alcohol) but in a different manner. That might give them significant legal grounds to stand up to any challenge.

If it is a financial success, and that remains to be seen, it will take violations of regulations or other significant complaints with a legal basis to stop them from continuing to do business. Otherwise it is here to stay.

Only time will tell.

I'm just siding with the people that own waterfront property and have to look out at this all day and night. I don't own waterfront on Winni so it doesn't effect me but I can understand their frustration.
If it's moved around the lake on a rotating basis then that might ease a lot of the backlash.
Everyone is worried about the investment these business owners have made but what about the investment that these home owners have in their property? I think there should have been more oversight on the building of this vessel before it was issued permits.
Like I said, I have no dog in this fight, thank god!. I'm just giving my opinion.
Businesses rise an fail all the time. It's a gamble so time will tell if this gamble survives.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm just siding with the people that own waterfront property and have to look out at this all day and night. I don't own waterfront on Winni so it doesn't effect me but I can understand their frustration.
If it's moved around the lake on a rotating basis then that might ease a lot of the backlash.
Everyone is worried about the investment these business owners have made but what about the investment that these home owners have in their property? I think there should have been more oversight on the building of this vessel before it was issued permits.
Like I said, I have no dog in this fight, thank god!. I'm just giving my opinion.
Businesses rise an fail all the time. It's a gamble so time will tell if this gamble survives.

This is the problem though, we have people with no interest complaining because they're "sympathetic" to homeowners of which we don't even know if they're bothered by it. Again, this forum and society now has to have something to complain about. Why stir the pot if there is no vested interest or no hard complaints. Nobody can just be happy with this something new cool and exciting that most genuinely appreciate.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

This is the problem though, we have people with no interest complaining because they're "sympathetic" to homeowners of which we don't even know if they're bothered by it. Again, this forum and society now has to have something to complain about. Why stir the pot if there is no vested interest or no hard complaints. Nobody can just be happy with this something new cool and exciting that most genuinely appreciate.

Why should everyone just be happy with it? How do you know it's "genuinely appreciated"? Did you take a survey of the people using this service or did you take a survey of everyone on the lake? Or do you just count the ya's and na's on the forum?
I guess we really won't know until it get's through the summer and see where it stands next season.
Anyways, this is what public forums are for. If you don't like other peoples opinions then you shouldn't visit them. There are always going to be people for and against.

[Momo]

Eye sore, NIMBY, taxes aside.... what about a business permitted by the State of NH that advertises “Day-Drinking” for boaters? (See links below from their own website). Is their promotional item as well as their post which references “Day-Drinking” good for Lake Winnipesaukee (not Just waterfront homeowners)?
I am hardly a tee-totaler and enjoy many of our local establishments - none of which blantently promote drinking and boating. Some may say TIC “at least The Dive is only promoting Day-Drinking and not promoting Night-Drinking”, but there is no humor in this. Just ask anyone who has been injured or lost a loved one due to alcohol related boating accidents.

[Seaplane Pilot]

I shall name it: "WINNFABAFBPIFOMP"

Winnipesaukee
Farts
Against
Big
Ass
Food
Barges
Parked
In
Front
Of
My
Property

Our motto will be: "Chinese School Has Just Begun, No More Laughing, No More Fun..."

If this concept sounds pathetic, that's because it is!

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Why should everyone just be happy with it? How do you know it's "genuinely appreciated"? Did you take a survey of the people using this service or did you take a survey of everyone on the lake? Or do you just count the ya's and na's on the forum?
I guess we really won't know until it get's through the summer and see where it stands next season.
Anyways, this is what public forums are for. If you don't like other peoples opinions then you shouldn't visit them. There are always going to be people for and against.

You missed the point. There are numerous people against this for a reason that (1) doesn't affect them and (2) think it affects someone else even though there are no legitimate waterfront stakeholders voicing concern.

Based on initial reviews/updates here and on facebook, this business appears to be off to a successful start yet there seems to be a group here that is offended by such due to it being an "eye sore."

If it's remitting oil in the lake, I think that's a legitimate concern. Being out late without a sanctioned event, sure, legitimate concern. Promoting "day drinking" - let's be honest, I'll bet a good majority of the lake enjoys a few drinks while out on the lake and many boats have at least a handful of folks in the boat. That doesn't mean each boat doesn't have a designated captain (even though we'd like to hope it's the case). Again, just another empty complaint.

[Biggd]

Good luck to all the home owners that have to deal with it. They just have to suck it up because "they don't own the lake". This is one of the reasons you rarely see homes go up for sale on Squam Lake.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Good luck to all the home owners that have to deal with it. They just have to suck it up because "they don't own the lake". This is one of the reasons you rarely see homes go up for sale on Squam Lake.

Can you explain this one? Squam is state property too. Not sure I get your point.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Can you explain this one? Squam is state property too. Not sure I get your point.

Home owners don't own the lake but it's protect from any commercial endeavor. You have to go through the river to Little Squam to get gas, food, or boat repairs and it will always be that way. It's too late for Winni. Once the genie is out of the bottle you can't put him back in.
Like it or not the Dive is setting a precedent that will open up more ventures of like kind. I'm not an environmentalist but I do believe in protecting out natural resources for future generations. It can't always be about the all mighty dollar.

[SIKSUKR]

I would bet that if the Dive looked more like your average boating vessel and not the tall boxy structure it is, there would be a lot less opposition. I actually wondered when they were building it why the need to go so high. fwiw The Willy T in the BVI's is actually going through a similar situation. The last big hurricane destroyed it and the owner bought a new one but the gov. wont let them back in the cove they anchored in for so long because of new development in what was barren shoreline. I believe they have found a new spot.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I would bet that if the Dive looked more like your average boating vessel and not the tall boxy structure it is, there would be a lot less opposition. I actually wondered when they were building it why the need to go so high. fwiw The Willy T in the BVI's is actually going through a similar situation. The last big hurricane destroyed it and the owner bought a new one but the gov. wont let them back in the cove they anchored in for so long because of new development in what was barren shoreline. I believe they have found a new spot.

That's the old Willy T. It is now moored on Cooper Island.

Now back to the Dive.....

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

This is the problem though, we have people with no interest complaining because they're "sympathetic" to homeowners of which we don't even know if they're bothered by it.

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

There are people out there that don't like laws and don't like rules. They think everyone should be able to do what ever they want when ever they want without restrictions. Isn't that why everyone comes to NH, "live free or die"? Well in a perfect world where everyone was nice and respectful of others that would work. But we all know there is no such thing as a perfect world.

[Woodsy]

The amount of NIMBY that is posted is just crazy!

I don't recall any houses along the shoreline of the West Alton Sandbar.... (1 house down at the far eastern end of the cove). I was under the impression that the waterfront there is owned by the West Alton Marina... So if the marina isn't bitching... why do you care?



Woodsy

[noreast]

If you're asking me, I really don't care. This is a theoretical argument at this point since I don't think it's going to park there all the time. I just respond when people make ignorant comments. Nothing wrong with a good argument.

[fatlazyless]

Say ..... the photos above of the Willy T come from the British Virgin Islands and the Willie T got badly damaged by a hurricane or two, last September, 2017. It has been rebuilt, but the new Willy T has been reborn without the sailing masts and now looks more like a motor yacht than a sailing yacht.


Here's an article from the Press Herald newspaper in Maine: August, 2014; https://www.pressherald.com/2014/08/...loating-feast/ ... (13-photos) ...... about a one women lunch boat business in a classic 20' open Maine motor launch that she putt-putts around and about Penobscot Bay. Someone could duplicate that business here on Lake Winnipesaukee and maybe do business in the same sand bar area at the entrance to West Alton Marina as The Dive. Competition is what makes America great ..... someone once said! ...... no, on second thought ..... this will never-ever happen ...... Lake Winnipesaukee is a long, long, long way from Penobscot Bay, over in Maine.

So, who knows, but maybe if this floating restaurant-bar barge, The Dive, were to install a sail mast with a big colorful sail high atop the barge structure ...... it could dress itself up with a more nautical look ....... maybe a huge yellow and orange striped main sail or something to create that sail boat look from afar .....down the lake ... to make it look more like a boat ..... and less like a floating fast food, restaurant-bar that remains in one spot all the time ...... The Dive.

It needs a big sail .....yeah ..... that's what it needs to make it look more like a boat ...... it needs a sail!

And, it would be appreciated and revered as a long time Lake Winnipesaukee icon ......... forever after ..... definitely ........ ugh!

[noreast]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

Exactly, And the argument that it only effects a few people so others shouldn't speak up is just stupid and anti social. Why speak up to help out friends and neighbors (or strangers for that matter) because it doesn't effect you.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by noreast

Exactly, And the argument that it only effects a few people so others shouldn't speak up is just stupid and anti social. Why speak up to help out friends and neighbors (or strangers for that matter) because it doesn't effect you.

Where are the known people negatively affected that have personally stated they are affected? Everyone here is a trying to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist yet...again, nothing but negative people who have nothing better to do but complain.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

Why do you need to voice your opinion if it doesn't affect you because it isn't in your back yard and there are no known people negatively affected by this? That is the point I'm making. Give it a chance - people are more focused on how to take this business down than figuring out how to appreciate something that may add value to others.

[iw8surf]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Why do you need to voice your opinion if it doesn't affect you because it isn't in your back yard and there are no known people negatively affected by this? That is the point I'm making. Give it a chance - people are more focused on how to take this business down than figuring out how to appreciate something that may add value to others.

My only qualm is they need to set a schedule and stick with it. I think having a plan a week out or so will allow people to plan and actually set a way of going there and enjoying it. Following their facebook group there is a lot of back and forth of "we thought we'd be out at this time but we were late" etc. I like the concept if it all works smoothly, I have seen similar things be successful on other lakes out west and down south.

[Woodsy]

Where is a WAAMBULANCE?

I am sure their original business model does not include just sitting in Smalls Cove all day selling drinks and burgers.... there is most certainly not enough business there to support the cost of the operation... especially after the initial curiosity wears off. Nor is there anywhere near the amount of parking space given its a "No Rafting" zone.

Most likely they want to work out the bugs before going all over. Also, I think they have the proper food/liquor permits for Alton, and the other towns on the lake haven't signed off yet.

That being said.... I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Some "poor" person on Sleepers Is is indignant because their view of people rafting and partying in Smalls Cove has been ruined by a party barge in Smalls Cove? Really? That's your argument?

Woodsy

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Where is a WAAMBULANCE?

I am sure their original business model does not include just sitting in Smalls Cove all day selling drinks and burgers.... there is most certainly not enough business there to support the cost of the operation... especially after the initial curiosity wears off. Nor is there anywhere near the amount of parking space given its a "No Rafting" zone.

Most likely they want to work out the bugs before going all over. Also, I think they have the proper food/liquor permits for Alton, and the other towns on the lake haven't signed off yet.

That being said.... I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Some "poor" person on Sleepers Is is indignant because their view of people rafting and partying in Smalls Cove has been ruined by a party barge in Smalls Cove? Really? That's your argument?

Woodsy

Careful what you say! They're all entitled to their opinion no matter what and will do whatever to take down this business and feel compassionate for landowners that aren't bothered.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Woodsy

This conversation is becoming circular, but I'd be really upset to show up to White Lake State Park (or insert any other park you like) to find a noisy, cumbersome, flashy-lights hot dog Humvee in the parking lot or, even worse, at the summit.

In fact, I believe a proposal for a Mount Washington summit hotel is in this very process.

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[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

This conversation is becoming circular, but I'd be really upset to show up to White Lake State Park (or insert any other park you like) to find a noisy, cumbersome, flashy-lights hot dog Humvee in the parking lot or, even worse, at the summit.

In fact, I believe a proposal for a Mount Washington summit hotel is in this very process.

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I have no problem with anyone in "a noisy, cumbersome, flashy-lights hot dog Humvee" selling hot dogs or drinks in a parking lot of a State Park.... it boils down to supply & demand.If there is a demand for this product (The Dive) then it will thrive... if not, oh well... you win some lose some.

But all of this NIMBY stuff is crazy.... lots of people utilize the resources of the lake to make $$$.

Woodsy

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Where is a WAAMBULANCE?

I am sure their original business model does not include just sitting in Smalls Cove all day selling drinks and burgers.... there is most certainly not enough business there to support the cost of the operation... especially after the initial curiosity wears off. Nor is there anywhere near the amount of parking space given its a "No Rafting" zone.

Most likely they want to work out the bugs before going all over. Also, I think they have the proper food/liquor permits for Alton, and the other towns on the lake haven't signed off yet.

That being said.... I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Some "poor" person on Sleepers Is is indignant because their view of people rafting and partying in Smalls Cove has been ruined by a party barge in Smalls Cove? Really? That's your argument?

Woodsy

"before going all over?" So it was established that the most likely locations are sandbars so patrons can walk to it and there is a larger concentration of patrons. So that leaves Smalls Cove, Braun Bay and Margate sandbar. It has also been established that the Margate sandbar is not possible due to bridge and beam of the Dive. So that leaves Braun Bay. By their own accounts the dive is doing well at Smalls so why would you spend the time and gas money to travel to Braun Bay? So I ask again, where else are they going to go?

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Taz

"before going all over?" So it was established that the most likely locations are sandbars so patrons can walk to it and there is a larger concentration of patrons. So that leaves Smalls Cove, Braun Bay and Margate sandbar. It has also been established that the Margate sandbar is not possible due to bridge and beam of the Dive. So that leaves Braun Bay. By their own accounts the dive is doing well at Smalls so why would you spend the time and gas money to travel to Braun Bay? So I ask again, where else are they going to go?

Anywhere on the lake. Until you out of staters pass legislation saying otherwise...