Bad economy/speed limit=bad news for lake businesses

Woodsy · 04-14-2009, 10:06 AM

Brk...

You prove my point.... If i go at displacement speed say 6-8 MPH, a round trip from the Weirs to Meredith will be approximately 1 1/2-2 hours... add in an hour or so for dinner.... it turns into a 3 hour tour! While some nights this might be enjoyable, on others less so.

At displacement speed you can forget about going to Center Harbor, Wolfeboro or Alton!! I would have to leave at noon and hope to be back at midnight!

At this point it just becomes easier to take the car... and thats a shame!

Woodsy

brk-lnt · 04-14-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

At this point it just becomes easier to take the car... and thats a shame!

Woodsy

Yup, so the real question is going to be will the potentially lost revenue from people who feel they can no longer take their boat to dinner someplace be offset by the people who now (supposedly) feel less endangered on the lake?

And, if you take the car instead of the boat, the economic impact becomes a zero-sum game...

hazelnut · 04-14-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Yup, so the real question is going to be will the potentially lost revenue from people who feel they can no longer take their boat to dinner someplace be offset by the people who now (supposedly) feel less endangered on the lake?

And, if you take the car instead of the boat, the economic impact becomes a zero-sum game...

Both post in this thread from you are argumentative and contain ignorance. People including myself, Woodsy, R2B and others are posting factual statements considering the FACT that if we follow the law we can not enjoy our boats at night. FACT! No embellishment, no hearsay, no wild accusation just plain fact. We are merely pointing out a fact that as a bi-product of this law we can not obey the law and enjoy it. We can go 6-8 MPH at night and take several hours to do our trip or as YOU SAY we can break the law and go 32MPH and be looking over our shoulder the entire ride worrying that the MP doesn't pull us over. Well that sucks in OUR opinion. You are entitled to yours but I'd appreciate if you didn't dismiss our concerns as "pathetic."

Let me make something else VERY clear. I own a 26 foot BOWRIDER capable of a top speed of 47MPH. At night this boat will not stay on plane at 25MPH. So this law affects the Bow Rider family boat crowd just as much.

OCDACTIVE · 04-14-2009, 01:20 PM

Very well said. I believe you hit the nail on the head that not only one group of people (I now being part of that group) are adversley effected. But as long as the kayakers and canoers can go out in the middle of the broads at night all good..

swnoel · 04-14-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Very well said. I believe you hit the nail on the head that not only one group of people (I now being part of that group) are adversley effected. But as long as the kayakers and canoers can go out in the middle of the broads at night all good..

I thought it was law that you need bow and stern lights at night?

Who in their "right " mind would be in the broads with a kayak or canoe?
Maybe some drunk or crackhead!

Why is it that the large boat owners that reside on and use the Lake, think the lake belongs only to them!!!

Everyone has the right to be safe on the lake, the lack of respect that I've experienced by those big boats while fishing is unbelievable.

The bottom line is, if everyone showed the respect to one another as they maintain, there would be NO need for any additional laws!

I also don't think anyone will be stopped for going 10mph over in a safe way, but just the passing of the law will undoubtably make people more aware of what they're doing and will make the lake safer for all.

OCDACTIVE · 04-14-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swnoel

I thought it was law that you need bow and stern lights at night?

Who in their "right " mind would be in the broads with a kayak or canoe?
Maybe some drunk or crackhead!

Why is it that the large boat owners that reside on and use the Lake, think the lake belongs only to them!!!

Everyone has the right to be safe on the lake, the lack of respect that I've experienced by those big boats while fishing is unbelievable.

The bottom line is, if everyone showed the respect to one another as they maintain, there would be NO need for any additional laws!

lights at night... You wouldn't believe this but I saw a battery powered clamp on lights for kayaks and canoes.

Ready for this.... 4th of July 3 years ago.. Crusing in a fountain in choppy weather. Probably going 40 - 45 mph... Nothing major... There were good 2-3 foot waves with cross wakes everywhere.. Just enjoying a nice jont down the center of the broads where we were going to stop an chill out. RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the broads is 2 eight foot BLUE Kayakers with BLUE life jackets one. Absolute stupidity. I don't care if you are going 25, 40, 45 or 60 this was tough to see in these conditions... So yes I think your crackhead comment would apply!

I have a big boat that is fast, I have a little boat 17 foot center consol fishing boat, and a 26 foot party boat at my dock. With respect and common sense there is no need for restrictions. And no I don't think I own the lake because I have a bigger faster boat. I know when and how to use it very well and IMO the broads is a perfect place to do that. Not in the bays where you have weekend warriors and major congestion.

Dave R · 04-14-2009, 01:23 PM

This is the list of speed limit supporting entities that Winnfabs published a few years ago during the HB162 days. It may be inaccurate today, but I still use it. Thank Winnfabs for putting it toghether, I'm just passing it along.

The Common Man
Ashalnd Insurance
Strictly Rentals
Wild Meadow Canoes and Kayaks
Centre Harbor Cellars
Center Harbor Inn
AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club)
NH Audubon
New Hampshire Lakes Association (NHLA)
Decker Machinery Company
The Architectural Studio
Fay’s Boat Yard
Birch Island Camp Association
Gilford Islands Association (GIA)
Jolly Island Association
Lockes Island Association
Belknap Landscaping Company
Design Quest
DK Net Design
E&S Insurance LLC
The Hair Factory
Mike’s Ala Carte Catering
Pepi Herrmann Crystal, Inc.
Glendale Marine
River Edge Marina
Squam Lakes Association (SLA)
Cottage Place on Squam Lake
Squam Lake Inn
Me Designs
Barrons Billiards
Blooms Vanity
J&J Printing
LaBelles Shoe Store
Central & Northern Title
Haughey, Philpot & Laurent
Lakeside Hotel Assoc.
Sundial Shops
Paugus Bay Marina
Best Western Silver Fox Inn
Griffin Bodi Krause
Municipal Resources, Inc.
Great Northern Trading Co
Meredith Marina
Y-Landing
Bear Island Conservation Association (BICA)
East Bear Island Conservation Association
AMC- 3 Mile Island
Winnipesaukee Rowing Club
Alexandria Lamp Shop
Case N’ Keg
Chris Dupont Painting
Christopher P. Williams, Architects
Eisenberg Chiropractic
Hawkins Photography
Hobo Railroad
Landscapes By Tom
League of NH Craftsmen
Mastiff Builders
Omni Signs
Patricia’s “Specially for You”
Pemi Glass Company
Pretty Petunias Garden Center
Remax Bay Side Real Estate
Remcon/North
Sagecliff Software, Inc.
The Village Perk
Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad
GASCO Realty, LLC
51 Main Street, LLc
Inns & Spa at Mill Falls
Meredith Bay Painting
The Lake House Grille
Lago
Camp
Town Docks Restaurant
Mame's
The Gallery at Mill Falls
Oglethorp
Guiseppies Resturant
Northern Air Trading
Lady of the Lake Clothing
Adorments
Creative Clothing
Christopher P. Williams, Architect
Oak Street Associates
Old Mill Insurance
Innisfree Bookstore
Phoenix Leasing, Inc.
Silver Top Ventures
Minuteman Plumbing & Heating
Sava Designs
Horn Insurance
Harts Restaurant
Fermentation Station LLC
Hunter's
Waukewan Antiques
Village Greenery
Etcetera Shop
Associated Surveyors
Moulton Farm
Barber Pole Association
Trexler’s Marina
Land’s End
Wyman Trail Association
Loon Preservation Committee
1st T Development Corporation
The Woodshed Restaurant
Castle in the Clouds
Amoskeg Insurance
EPTAM Plastics
The Common Man Inn
Corner House Inn
Seacoast Kayak
Tilton Veterinary Hospital
Waterville Valley Condo Rental
Thurston’s Marina
Lighthouse Inn
Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages
Van's Hotel Enterprises
Wolfboro Inn
Island Real Estate of New Hampshire
LB Boat Restoration
Millie B
Wolfeboro Trolley Company
Wolfetrap Restaurant

Dave R · 04-14-2009, 01:33 PM

I have a 25 foot boat, with a single-stepped hull, 24 degrees of deadrise at the transom, and terrible weight distribution due to the big block engine option. It's obviously a pretty bad combination for slow speed planing, but it'll easily plane out at 19 MPH with the tabs down, and 24 MPH (speeds measured with GPS, not the OEM speedometer) with the tabs retracted. I have a Bravo 3 drive, so I suppose that helps a lot, but I find it hard to believe there's many boats out there that really won't plane at 25 MPH.

Mine does get substantially better gas mileage from 28 MPH to 40 MPH compared to 25 MPH though (as measured with a Lowrance LMF-200). Literally, 40% better.

OCDACTIVE · 04-14-2009, 01:51 PM

All good points here.. Again, I don't think we will be able to judge, if at all, the limits will have effected the economy. Those in favor will say "The limits had no effect, the down turn was the economy in general". Those opposed will say "the business is down due to the limits etc etc" But when all is said and done there will be really no way to prove the economic impact what so ever. Most likely it will balance itself out.

As for the arguements concerning gas consumption.......... I will refer back to what my father and others have told me.... "If you are asking what you boat gets for MPG... You shouldn't buy a boat"

As you may have guessed or seen from prior threads I am Dead set against the limits. I think it is another law instituted on our freedoms. If current laws were enforced these never would have been instituted or needed (and still isn't IMO). Now the state has just another reason to ruin your good time.

The biggest mistake made was linking them to your MVR. I believe even the 150 foot rule is now linked as well as a moving violtation (don't quote me on that). Before, these infractions were money makers for the state. Out of staters and most in staters would normally just pay the fine for it wasn't in their best interests to fight it. Pay it and get it over with.. That is what I always did even when it was a bogus charge. A day off from work would cost a whole lot more then the simple fine. Now by linking them people will have to fight them. So this will flood our courts and cost the tax payers (not the out of staters) huge court fees. Plus as we have all read how it will be so difficult to prove. The 150 is an arbitrary "he said she said" law and the radars have proven to be inaccurate at best.

So with that said, This is going to be a very interesting year!

Woodsy · 04-14-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

I have a 25 foot boat, with a single-stepped hull, 24 degrees of deadrise at the transom, and terrible weight distribution due to the big block engine option. It's obviously a pretty bad combination for slow speed planing, but it'll easily plane out at 19 MPH with the tabs down, and 24 MPH (speeds measured with GPS, not the OEM speedometer) with the tabs retracted. I have a Bravo 3 drive, so I suppose that helps a lot, but I find it hard to believe there's many boats out there that really won't plane at 25 MPH.

Mine does get substantially better gas mileage from 28 MPH to 40 MPH compared to 25 MPH though (as measured with a Lowrance LMF-200). Literally, 40% better.

Dave...

That Bravo 3 Dual prop drive is the key.... it pushes alot of water very efficiently at lower speeds.... nothing pops a boat on plane better or quicker than the Merc Bravo 3 or Volvo Duoprop setup...

But like everything... there is a tradeoff to be made!

The dual props become less efficient at higher speeds... thats alot of blade area to spin and it requires sustantially more HP to spin the faster it goes... and water does not compress. All things being equal thats why the huge difference in gasoline consumption.

A high performance boat such as my 26' Donzi is setup (weighted, balanced, propped) to go fast... 67-69 MPH. But like everything else there is a tradeoff. The boat doesnt like 25 MPH... even with the tabs down! The propeller is cavitating, the stern squatting and the nose is high.. and the wake rivals a Carver! I am sure its compounded on the larger heavier high performance boats.

Its funny but everything settles down smoothly at 30-32 MPH. You wouldnt think 5-6 MPH would make a big difference but it does.

For the record.. I seriously doubt the MP is going to pull you over for going 30 MPH... but you never know.

Woodsy

Dave R · 04-15-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Dave...

That Bravo 3 Dual prop drive is the key.... it pushes alot of water very efficiently at lower speeds.... nothing pops a boat on plane better or quicker than the Merc Bravo 3 or Volvo Duoprop setup...

But like everything... there is a tradeoff to be made!

The dual props become less efficient at higher speeds... thats alot of blade area to spin and it requires sustantially more HP to spin the faster it goes... and water does not compress. All things being equal thats why the huge difference in gasoline consumption.

A high performance boat such as my 26' Donzi is setup (weighted, balanced, propped) to go fast... 67-69 MPH. But like everything else there is a tradeoff. The boat doesnt like 25 MPH... even with the tabs down! The propeller is cavitating, the stern squatting and the nose is high.. and the wake rivals a Carver! I am sure its compounded on the larger heavier high performance boats.

Its funny but everything settles down smoothly at 30-32 MPH. You wouldnt think 5-6 MPH would make a big difference but it does.

For the record.. I seriously doubt the MP is going to pull you over for going 30 MPH... but you never know.

Woodsy

I knew it helped, but did not realize it helped that much.

You know a B3 lower gearcase bolts right up to a B1 upper gearcase, right? Might be worth picking one up on eBay while the 45/25 law is in effect and you can't really use the top end of the B1. A 1.5:1 ratio B1 upper gearcase would be a 2:1 ratio with a B3 lower bolted on, if memory serves. The swap takes mere minutes.

Woodsy · 04-15-2009, 10:44 AM

Dave...

I have been looking for a deal on a B3 lower for awhile.... but they dont give them (or the propellers) away! LOL!

Woodsy

Dave R · 04-15-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Dave...

I have been looking for a deal on a B3 lower for awhile.... but they dont give them (or the propellers) away! LOL!

Woodsy

Yeah, they are not cheap, but if top speed is not a priority, a nice upgrade. You can get deals now and then on craigslist.

My boat model is actually faster with a small block and a B1, but I like longevity and effortless cruising RPM of the big block, and the control of the B3

webmaster · 04-14-2009, 02:53 PM

For those new to this forum I want to point out this post. This topic was closed for many reasons including an overwhelming amount of complaints from members. It is fine to comment on the future impact of the law or the current enforcement but what I am seeing are the same few people making the same points and going down the same paths that were repeated so often last time that I finally had to put a lid on it. If you are really interested in this topic you can read these same points repeated endlessly in the Speed Limit sub-forum.

I'm very close to closing this thread as well. We will not have a repeat of the bickering that dragged this forum down for so long.

Again, please feel free to comment on the future economic impact, enforcement and other personal observations. Just please don't again argue the merits of the law. The law passed, that debate is over. Save it for 2011.

I've got my finger on the "Close" button.

Seeker · 04-14-2009, 08:27 PM

Will be interesting to see what happens in the derby this year. Never been to one but assume a lot of the guys run to different areas real fast. Maybe we should have a pool on how many tix are given out by MP?

We can only wait and see what the impact will be on the economy but as bad as it is now I don't see the speed limit making it much worse. Maybe a few years ago but not today.

OCDACTIVE · 04-14-2009, 08:45 PM

I had started a thread awhile back about the poker runs... I also think that since it is geared more towards the "go fast boats" it may take a hit as far as attendance. Which not only hurts the economy but easter seals as well. What a shame.

jrc · 04-14-2009, 09:01 PM

Speed limit or not the lake will be less crowded this year, you can't have 8% unemployment and not hit a few boaters. Plus fear, uncertainty and doubt will force a bunch more to convert their "fun" money to "just in case I get laid off" money.

As a side note. I've been scouting out a kayak or small canoe for just a little fun and fishing. Everywere I shop down in southern NH, they say I'm crazy to use a paddle boat on Winnipesaukee, it's so bad up there they had to put a speed limit in. So that campaign will have some effect as well.

Rinkerfam · 04-14-2009, 11:00 PM

Don, thank you for mentioning a key word in your post...enforcement. I think that when the dust settles in 2011 we will see how "unenforceable" this piece of legislation was from a practical standpoint. Money, equipment, training and manpower will ultimately set the course for this law. My opinion is, that in the end, we will see how little there was to have worried about.

mcdude · 04-15-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webmaster

I've got my finger on the "Close" button.

Hopefully sooner rather than later.

livefreeordie · 04-15-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdude

Hopefully sooner rather than later.

This is a open forum I think this is a great topic for everyone to discuss.
Let's stay on topic everyone so this thread will stay.

brk-lnt · 04-14-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Both post in this thread from you are argumentative and contain ignorance. People including myself, Woodsy, R2B and others are posting factual statements considering the FACT that if we follow the law we can not enjoy our boats at night. FACT! No embellishment, no hearsay, no wild accusation just plain fact. We are merely pointing out a fact that as a bi-product of this law we can not obey the law and enjoy it. We can go 6-8 MPH at night and take several hours to do our trip or as YOU SAY we can break the law and go 32MPH and be looking over our shoulder the entire ride worrying that the MP doesn't pull us over. Well that sucks in OUR opinion. You are entitled to yours but I'd appreciate if you didn't dismiss our concerns as "pathetic."

Let me make something else VERY clear. I own a 26 foot BOWRIDER capable of a top speed of 47MPH. At night this boat will not stay on plane at 25MPH. So this law affects the Bow Rider family boat crowd just as much.

You CAN enjoy your boat at night, although perhaps not in the manner you might be accustomed to. Perhaps this will change your desire to do things on the lake where you would have previously taken your boat out at night if you feel the only way your boat has any utility is at planing speed. If this is true, and you (and the others) spend a statistically significant amount of revenue in scenarios that involve your boat use after-hours, then I would encourage you to not partake in those activities this year by car OR boat so that the realistic economic impact of the speed limit law can be properly measured.

I did not dismiss your concerns as pathetic, I said that the approach to voicing them is pathetic (and I stand by that statement). Trying to predict some horrible doom and gloom scenario 2 days after ice-out is just a bit, IMO.

You take issue with my comments around going at 32MPH... Are you going to tell me that you do exactly the speed limit on all the roadways as well? Because you'd be the first person I've met that suddenly believes speed limits are both strictly followed, and strictly enforced, items.

So far you have not posted any FACTs that you cannot "enjoy" your boat at night. You have posted much opinion though. If you cannot see the distinction between these two things, there is little need to respond.

jmen24 · 04-14-2009, 01:56 PM

I had a boat and loved it but did not have the time to use it anymore and I enjoy paddling more, you would not catch me on the big lakes anyway before or after the limits, I enjoy my nature a little more remote and quiet.

But.., that list has some organizations that do a considerable amount of good on and off the lake. The AMC for example has done more to protect the accessibility of and the pretection of, forests around the lakes region as well as the rest of New England. To say that you will not patronize anyone on that list is quite a leap into the deep end. I am not trying to get into it, just pointing out that not everyone on that list is "Evil", but by the same token that would mean you will not be stepping foot on any of the trails in New England this year because you would have a difficult time finding one that has not had AMC members working to make them better or keep them clean.

Like I said not trying to start anything, just wanting to point out the broader scope of your statement. I do not support the speed limit in anyway. End of disclaimer.

OCDACTIVE · 04-14-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

I had a boat and loved it but did not have the time to use it anymore and I enjoy paddling more, you would not catch me on the big lakes anyway before or after the limits, I enjoy my nature a little more remote and quiet.

But.., that list has some organizations that do a considerable amount of good on and off the lake. The AMC for example has done more to protect the accessibility of and the pretection of, forests around the lakes region as well as the rest of New England. To say that you will not patronize anyone on that list is quite a leap into the deep end. I am not trying to get into it, just pointing out that not everyone on that list is "Evil", but by the same token that would mean you will not be stepping foot on any of the trails in New England this year because you would have a difficult time finding one that has not had AMC members working to make them better or keep them clean.

Like I said not trying to start anything, just wanting to point out the broader scope of your statement. I do not support the speed limit in anyway. End of disclaimer.

I agree. I don't think the list is "evil" either. I still will go to dinner at many of the resturants. However, I will give those on the list credit for at least standing up for what they believe and advertising it. So many people hide their views and are willing to give support only if it is anonomous.

I absolutely do not support the limits, but I will not change where I am a patron because of these either. That will not solve anything.

It doesn't mean you can't mention it to the owner of the establishment if you have the chance to speak with them however.

jmen24 · 04-14-2009, 02:19 PM

Posted by OCDACTIVE
"It doesn't mean you can't mention it to the owner of the establishment if you have the chance to speak with them however."

That is correct.

SIKSUKR · 04-14-2009, 02:05 PM

Here we go again.Help.

ApS · 04-14-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Here we go again.Help.

It's like they were all waiting around the corner!

Resident 2B · 04-14-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Brk...

You prove my point.... If i go at displacement speed say 6-8 MPH, a round trip from the Weirs to Meredith will be approximately 1 1/2-2 hours... add in an hour or so for dinner.... it turns into a 3 hour tour! While some nights this might be enjoyable, on others less so.

At displacement speed you can forget about going to Center Harbor, Wolfeboro or Alton!! I would have to leave at noon and hope to be back at midnight!

At this point it just becomes easier to take the car... and thats a shame!

Woodsy

I am in complete agreement with Woodsy on this. I can't go 15 MPH to 28 MPH in my 29' boat without a huge wake and huge fuel comsumption. I can go 25 MPH, but I have to plane first and I need to go 28 MPH to 30 MPH to get on plane. Therefore, there might be a night or two where a very slow ride to Meredith might make sense, but if there is any chance of thunderstorms or if it is cold, forget it. We will either stay home or take the car.

I do not pay the high taxes and property costs to live on the lake and take the car to dinner in the summer months. It just does not make sense to me. Therefore, we are much more likely to eat at home this summer than to take the car to dinner. We might eat more locally and walk.

R2B

jeffk · 04-14-2009, 11:32 AM

I did not support the limit either but always thought projecting economic effects of a limit or lack of one was ridiculous. The economy is too complex. Some fast power boaters might stay away, some people who like to putt around might come. There were no provable economic declines because of the faster boats on the lake. Everything was just speculation to support an agenda.

On the other hand I expect the economy to have a big effect. People may come to the lake but they will be looking for bargains. Cooking more of their own meals, dining at less expensive restaurants. That's why Walmart's profits are up while other retailers are down. People that can buy are being much more frugal. In a vacation area where people tend to splurge that will have a big effect. Someone walking into a craft shop who used to have the discretionary income to drop a couple hundred on some neat trinket will decide they can't afford it this year. They will set limits like only one day at the water slides or Funspot. Where they can they will be downscaling their activities. Shopping trips will be more for necessities and they will be looking for bargains. There may be just as many boats on the lake, gas after all is about half the price as last year. However it will be the activities after getting off the boat that will suffer.

04-14-2009, 10:06 AM	#1
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Brk... You prove my point.... If i go at displacement speed say 6-8 MPH, a round trip from the Weirs to Meredith will be approximately 1 1/2-2 hours... add in an hour or so for dinner.... it turns into a 3 hour tour! While some nights this might be enjoyable, on others less so. At displacement speed you can forget about going to Center Harbor, Wolfeboro or Alton!! I would have to leave at noon and hope to be back at midnight! At this point it just becomes easier to take the car... and thats a shame! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-14-2009, 01:20 PM	#4
OCDACTIVE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 444 Thanked 574 Times in 178 Posts	Very well said. I believe you hit the nail on the head that not only one group of people (I now being part of that group) are adversley effected. But as long as the kayakers and canoers can go out in the middle of the broads at night all good.. __________________ Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

04-14-2009, 01:51 PM	#9
OCDACTIVE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 444 Thanked 574 Times in 178 Posts	All good points here.. Again, I don't think we will be able to judge, if at all, the limits will have effected the economy. Those in favor will say "The limits had no effect, the down turn was the economy in general". Those opposed will say "the business is down due to the limits etc etc" But when all is said and done there will be really no way to prove the economic impact what so ever. Most likely it will balance itself out. As for the arguements concerning gas consumption.......... I will refer back to what my father and others have told me.... "If you are asking what you boat gets for MPG... You shouldn't buy a boat" As you may have guessed or seen from prior threads I am Dead set against the limits. I think it is another law instituted on our freedoms. If current laws were enforced these never would have been instituted or needed (and still isn't IMO). Now the state has just another reason to ruin your good time. The biggest mistake made was linking them to your MVR. I believe even the 150 foot rule is now linked as well as a moving violtation (don't quote me on that). Before, these infractions were money makers for the state. Out of staters and most in staters would normally just pay the fine for it wasn't in their best interests to fight it. Pay it and get it over with.. That is what I always did even when it was a bogus charge. A day off from work would cost a whole lot more then the simple fine. Now by linking them people will have to fight them. So this will flood our courts and cost the tax payers (not the out of staters) huge court fees. Plus as we have all read how it will be so difficult to prove. The 150 is an arbitrary "he said she said" law and the radars have proven to be inaccurate at best. So with that said, This is going to be a very interesting year! __________________ Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

04-15-2009, 10:44 AM	#12
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Dave... I have been looking for a deal on a B3 lower for awhile.... but they dont give them (or the propellers) away! LOL! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-14-2009, 08:45 PM	#16
OCDACTIVE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 444 Thanked 574 Times in 178 Posts	I had started a thread awhile back about the poker runs... I also think that since it is geared more towards the "go fast boats" it may take a hit as far as attendance. Which not only hurts the economy but easter seals as well. What a shame. __________________ Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

04-14-2009, 01:23 PM	#7
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,985 Thanks: 246 Thanked 744 Times in 444 Posts	This is the list of speed limit supporting entities that Winnfabs published a few years ago during the HB162 days. It may be inaccurate today, but I still use it. Thank Winnfabs for putting it toghether, I'm just passing it along. The Common Man Ashalnd Insurance Strictly Rentals Wild Meadow Canoes and Kayaks Centre Harbor Cellars Center Harbor Inn AMC (Appalachian Mountain Club) NH Audubon New Hampshire Lakes Association (NHLA) Decker Machinery Company The Architectural Studio Fay’s Boat Yard Birch Island Camp Association Gilford Islands Association (GIA) Jolly Island Association Lockes Island Association Belknap Landscaping Company Design Quest DK Net Design E&S Insurance LLC The Hair Factory Mike’s Ala Carte Catering Pepi Herrmann Crystal, Inc. Glendale Marine River Edge Marina Squam Lakes Association (SLA) Cottage Place on Squam Lake Squam Lake Inn Me Designs Barrons Billiards Blooms Vanity J&J Printing LaBelles Shoe Store Central & Northern Title Haughey, Philpot & Laurent Lakeside Hotel Assoc. Sundial Shops Paugus Bay Marina Best Western Silver Fox Inn Griffin Bodi Krause Municipal Resources, Inc. Great Northern Trading Co Meredith Marina Y-Landing Bear Island Conservation Association (BICA) East Bear Island Conservation Association AMC- 3 Mile Island Winnipesaukee Rowing Club Alexandria Lamp Shop Case N’ Keg Chris Dupont Painting Christopher P. Williams, Architects Eisenberg Chiropractic Hawkins Photography Hobo Railroad Landscapes By Tom League of NH Craftsmen Mastiff Builders Omni Signs Patricia’s “Specially for You” Pemi Glass Company Pretty Petunias Garden Center Remax Bay Side Real Estate Remcon/North Sagecliff Software, Inc. The Village Perk Winnipesaukee Scenic Railroad GASCO Realty, LLC 51 Main Street, LLc Inns & Spa at Mill Falls Meredith Bay Painting The Lake House Grille Lago Camp Town Docks Restaurant Mame's The Gallery at Mill Falls Oglethorp Guiseppies Resturant Northern Air Trading Lady of the Lake Clothing Adorments Creative Clothing Christopher P. Williams, Architect Oak Street Associates Old Mill Insurance Innisfree Bookstore Phoenix Leasing, Inc. Silver Top Ventures Minuteman Plumbing & Heating Sava Designs Horn Insurance Harts Restaurant Fermentation Station LLC Hunter's Waukewan Antiques Village Greenery Etcetera Shop Associated Surveyors Moulton Farm Barber Pole Association Trexler’s Marina Land’s End Wyman Trail Association Loon Preservation Committee 1st T Development Corporation The Woodshed Restaurant Castle in the Clouds Amoskeg Insurance EPTAM Plastics The Common Man Inn Corner House Inn Seacoast Kayak Tilton Veterinary Hospital Waterville Valley Condo Rental Thurston’s Marina Lighthouse Inn Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages Van's Hotel Enterprises Wolfboro Inn Island Real Estate of New Hampshire LB Boat Restoration Millie B Wolfeboro Trolley Company Wolfetrap Restaurant

04-14-2009, 01:33 PM	#8
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,985 Thanks: 246 Thanked 744 Times in 444 Posts	I have a 25 foot boat, with a single-stepped hull, 24 degrees of deadrise at the transom, and terrible weight distribution due to the big block engine option. It's obviously a pretty bad combination for slow speed planing, but it'll easily plane out at 19 MPH with the tabs down, and 24 MPH (speeds measured with GPS, not the OEM speedometer) with the tabs retracted. I have a Bravo 3 drive, so I suppose that helps a lot, but I find it hard to believe there's many boats out there that really won't plane at 25 MPH. Mine does get substantially better gas mileage from 28 MPH to 40 MPH compared to 25 MPH though (as measured with a Lowrance LMF-200). Literally, 40% better.

04-14-2009, 02:53 PM	#14
webmaster Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,455 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 459 Thanked 3,830 Times in 840 Posts	For those new to this forum I want to point out this post. This topic was closed for many reasons including an overwhelming amount of complaints from members. It is fine to comment on the future impact of the law or the current enforcement but what I am seeing are the same few people making the same points and going down the same paths that were repeated so often last time that I finally had to put a lid on it. If you are really interested in this topic you can read these same points repeated endlessly in the Speed Limit sub-forum. I'm very close to closing this thread as well. We will not have a repeat of the bickering that dragged this forum down for so long. Again, please feel free to comment on the future economic impact, enforcement and other personal observations. Just please don't again argue the merits of the law. The law passed, that debate is over. Save it for 2011. I've got my finger on the "Close" button.

04-14-2009, 08:27 PM	#15
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Effingham Posts: 408 Thanks: 37 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	Will be interesting to see what happens in the derby this year. Never been to one but assume a lot of the guys run to different areas real fast. Maybe we should have a pool on how many tix are given out by MP? We can only wait and see what the impact will be on the economy but as bad as it is now I don't see the speed limit making it much worse. Maybe a few years ago but not today.

04-14-2009, 09:01 PM	#17
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Speed limit or not the lake will be less crowded this year, you can't have 8% unemployment and not hit a few boaters. Plus fear, uncertainty and doubt will force a bunch more to convert their "fun" money to "just in case I get laid off" money. As a side note. I've been scouting out a kayak or small canoe for just a little fun and fishing. Everywere I shop down in southern NH, they say I'm crazy to use a paddle boat on Winnipesaukee, it's so bad up there they had to put a speed limit in. So that campaign will have some effect as well.

04-14-2009, 11:00 PM	#18
Rinkerfam Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 268 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Don, thank you for mentioning a key word in your post...enforcement. I think that when the dust settles in 2011 we will see how "unenforceable" this piece of legislation was from a practical standpoint. Money, equipment, training and manpower will ultimately set the course for this law. My opinion is, that in the end, we will see how little there was to have worried about. __________________ Education is hanging around 'til you've caught on - Frost

04-14-2009, 01:56 PM	#22
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	Thats quite the list I had a boat and loved it but did not have the time to use it anymore and I enjoy paddling more, you would not catch me on the big lakes anyway before or after the limits, I enjoy my nature a little more remote and quiet. But.., that list has some organizations that do a considerable amount of good on and off the lake. The AMC for example has done more to protect the accessibility of and the pretection of, forests around the lakes region as well as the rest of New England. To say that you will not patronize anyone on that list is quite a leap into the deep end. I am not trying to get into it, just pointing out that not everyone on that list is "Evil", but by the same token that would mean you will not be stepping foot on any of the trails in New England this year because you would have a difficult time finding one that has not had AMC members working to make them better or keep them clean. Like I said not trying to start anything, just wanting to point out the broader scope of your statement. I do not support the speed limit in anyway. End of disclaimer. Last edited by jmen24; 04-14-2009 at 02:00 PM. Reason: spelling

04-14-2009, 02:19 PM	#24
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	Correct Posted by OCDACTIVE "It doesn't mean you can't mention it to the owner of the establishment if you have the chance to speak with them however." That is correct.

04-14-2009, 02:05 PM	#25
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Here we go again.Help. __________________ SIKSUKR

04-14-2009, 11:32 AM	#28
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,172 Thanks: 206 Thanked 437 Times in 253 Posts	I did not support the limit either but always thought projecting economic effects of a limit or lack of one was ridiculous. The economy is too complex. Some fast power boaters might stay away, some people who like to putt around might come. There were no provable economic declines because of the faster boats on the lake. Everything was just speculation to support an agenda. On the other hand I expect the economy to have a big effect. People may come to the lake but they will be looking for bargains. Cooking more of their own meals, dining at less expensive restaurants. That's why Walmart's profits are up while other retailers are down. People that can buy are being much more frugal. In a vacation area where people tend to splurge that will have a big effect. Someone walking into a craft shop who used to have the discretionary income to drop a couple hundred on some neat trinket will decide they can't afford it this year. They will set limits like only one day at the water slides or Funspot. Where they can they will be downscaling their activities. Shopping trips will be more for necessities and they will be looking for bargains. There may be just as many boats on the lake, gas after all is about half the price as last year. However it will be the activities after getting off the boat that will suffer.