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#1 | |||||||
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Location: Littleton, NH
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I wrote: “But I've paddled there more times than you have suggested”. So my reply was that I’ve paddled on winni more than 10 times. So you can stop trying to guess and you can stop making up false accusations about me. I answered your question. I HONESTLY don’t know how many times I have paddled on any NH lake – I paddle a LOT on a LOT of lakes and on the ocean. I have a hard enough time just keeping track of miles I paddle. I passed 1000 miles early in my 3rd summer of paddling (which is somewhere between 300 and 400 hours of paddling). Quote:
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My point about knowing most of the Senators is that I intimately know the process of hearings and on how much time is spent at collecting and reading data so that a Senator can make an informed vote. I do know that at least three of the Senators are avid kayakers – and one Senators told me that her husband was nearly run over by a high-speed powerboat on Winni. The Senators I know who voted for the bill are not the “spineless, noodleback hacks” that Seaplane Pilot accused them of being.
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#2 |
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I agree with Skip. Let's move on. As long as everyone boat, whether motor, paddle or sail in a reasonable and prudent manner, everyone should be satisfied. Pointing fingers at each other and flapping our wings is a mean to no ends. This should eliminate future restrictions to our sport of boating. The problem is the damage is done and we will see more restrictions with 'feel good' laws.
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#3 | |
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Why close a forum? Sure, we've beat it to death, but it's not gotten stale. Occasionally, new tidbits come up. Frankly, it's far more relevant than anything in the media. Perhaps someone out there will get the idea that increased enforcement is really needed, don't know. But burying a topic as important as this one serves no one. I haven't seen anything like this board for information coming from so many sides on one issue. There's some good stuff here, seriously. If the MP's and others read these threads, this one and the Captain Bonehead thread, that's not a bad thing. |
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#4 | |||||||||
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I have spoken out mostly because I saw how paddlers were effectively being forced from paddling on the main lake – just because of the actions of a small percentage of powerboaters. Yet you and many other powerboaters who claim that the speed lime will force GFBL off the lake don’t seem to have any trouble with paddlers being forced off the main lake.
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#5 | |||||||||||
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You can have the last word if you want but I'm finished arguing this issue. We both know where the other stands and we both know we will not change each others' mind. Bottom line is, we must agree to disagree. |
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#6 |
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Evenstar: I have also raced sailboats, anything from Lasers to the most high performance boats out there such as Melges, and International 14's back when they were cool. I have been in more collisions in them then my power boat. Again it has NOTHING to do with speed and everything to do with the person behind the wheel. More accidents happend at slow speeds then high ones, FACT. You will be no safer after the speed limit then you are now. In fact since the proponents of the speed limit say that there are so many people that are afraid of the lake now, after the speed limit the lake will have even more boats on it. This will make the lake even more unsafe as it will be even more overcrowded.......
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#7 | ||||||
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“In the mid 90’s, when the private landowner decided it was time to sell the ramp, the association bought it, made some repairs, and invited the public to use it. Meanwhile, New Hampshire Fish and Game Department continued to look for an access point that it could own, in order to fulfill a state law that says it must. At one point, Fish and Game appeared to have found a spot. But neighbors objected, and when the state was slow to buy the land, the neighbors bought it first. The attending bad publicity helped convince John Thompson to get the lakes association involved." "The Squam Lakes Association had offered its boat ramp to the state before, but the state rejected it, citing safety concerns, including a lack of public parking. Then the office of state planning took another look at the site. It brought in the department of transportation and other interested parties. Plans were drawn up to redesign the site to include two ramps, a dock, and parking for 26-vehicles. Finally, fish and game accepted the lake association’s offer to donate its ramp." "For Richard Tichko, project leader for Fish and Game’s statewide access program, the dedication of a publicly owned ramp on Squam is a crowning achievement.” http://www.nhpr.org/node/1408 Back in 1999 HB-599 was introduced. This bill was for the “Acquisition of Sites for Public Access to Squam Lake. The fish and game department shall acquire no less than 4 sites, by eminent domain if necessary, to provide year-round public access to Squam Lake.” This bill still hasn’t made it out of the House committee. http://gencourt.state.nh.us/SofS_Arc...use/HB539H.pdf ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
I never said that everyone who exceeds 45 mph are traveling beyond their ability to see smaller boats in time – but it has been my experience that many are traveling at speeds that are faster than their abilities. You still haven’t showed me where NH law gives you the “right” to travel at unlimited speeds on any lake in NH. Show me the RSA that states that this is a right the state grants power boaters, and then I’ll believe you. The absence of a speed limit does not permit you the right to travel at speeds that are dangerous to other boaters. Quote:
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I have been nearly run over at the end of Center Harbor, roughly 200 feet off the shore, when a high speed boater was not paying enough attention to see our two kayaks. I have been nearly run over by a boat traveling at high-speed within less than 15 minutes of launching my kayak on Winni. ALL the above have happened on weekdays when visibility was excellent and boating traffic was low. So stop trying to put all the blame on paddlers and stop trying to tell me that this is just a normal risk that anyone who wants to paddle on the lake should just accept – because that is not only untrue, but NH law states that “it is hereby declared that the public waters of New Hampshire shall be maintained and regulated in such way as to provide for the safe and mutual enjoyment of a variety of uses.” According to NH law, I have the right to kayak on the lake without putting my life at risk by the high speeds of powerboaters. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote:
But I have never come remotely close of having a sailboat run over me in my sea kayak. Yet I have had many close calls on winni with power boats that were traveling at high speeds. I have never had a powerboat on Squam unintentionally violate my 150 foot zone – mostly because Squam has a 40 mph daytime speed limit. So, it has been my own personal experience that SPEED has EVERYTHING to do with it.
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#8 | |
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Since this sub-Forum is about to be closed, it would be apposite to bid you farewell, since your agenda precluded your posting in the regular sections of this website.
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#9 | ||||
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My first two posts were in the Site Support Forum and I have made numerous posts in the Boating Forum and In the General Discussion Forum - so please stop with the false accusations. Yes I have mostly posted in the Speed Limit Forum, but if you check, you'll also notice that over 90% of my posts are direct replies to comments or questions that were made to me directly. If you don't want me posting as much, stop directing comments at me. Your post is the sort of stuff that has ruined this forum. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote:
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#10 | |
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Sounds reasonable enough to me ![]()
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#11 | |
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Your first post, in the Site Support Forum section, was 04-02-2005, 12:03 PM Your first Speed Limit post was 04-04-2005, 09:01 AM You posted thirteen times, between then and 04-05-2005, 11:26 PM, to that thread. How many times have you posted to threads relating to kayaks, especially threads seeking advice, since your first post on this Forum? Almost three and a half years of posting and fewer times than you posted to a Speed Limit thread between 04-04-2005, 09:01 AM and 04-05-2005, 11:26 PM. The evidence speaks for itself…
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#12 | ||
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And the truth is that I posted in the Boating Forum on 04-04-2005, and nearly all my early posts were also in the Boating Forum since there was no Speed Limit Forum back then. Quote:
The truth is that there are very few threads about kayaks. I could only find 6 threads in the Boating Forum that had the word “kayak” in the title: Kayaking on Lake Winnipesaukee – which I posted in Kayak Launch Sites – which I posted in Jet Kayak boats Kayak Cut in Half in Meredith – which I posted in Smith River Canoe and Kayak Race Kayak Racing Other than Most of the advice given on this forum by the powerboaters is that kayaks don’t belong on the main lake. So it's no wonder that there aren't more kayak threads here. Yes, the evidence does speaks for itself.
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#13 |
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Evenstar: You still haven’t showed me where NH law gives you the “right” to travel at unlimited speeds on any lake in NH.
Actually, in the absence of a law restricting speed, and since, as BI has pointed out, there is no reasonable and prudent standard in place, as of today I'm not sure the law places any restriction on the right of a boater to travel at any speed, other than NWZs, safe passage, etc. If it did we wouldn't be having this debate. RSA 270:1:II has been cited frequently as supporting the contention that a speed limit is needed on the lake. But it strikes me that this could be a two-edged sword. The RSA does not state that every body of water must support every possible use, but rather that the state's public waters, in total, should be regulated so as to "provide for the safe and mutual enjoyment of a variety of uses." It seems to me that in theory, without getting to the political considerations, the appropriate officials could decide that kayaks, for example, have no place on Winnipesaukee, or at least on certain parts of the lake, just as they have decided that PWCs do not belong on certain bodies of water and that powerboats above a certain horsepower do not belong on other bodies of water. They could decide that if kayaking on the big lake is so bloody dangerous, then perhaps that activity should be prohibited or restricted, and in the interest of promoting the goals espoused in the RSA, designate some other place for safe kayaking. I guess I'm just saying file this under be careful what you ask for. |
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#14 |
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People- Have you been paying attention to Don at all. He is tired (that is how I read it anyway) of this foolish bickering on this sub forum; bickering that is starting to pervade other threads and forums on this site. At some point one of you has to be the bigger person and stop responding and trying to get the last word in.
Can't we all just get along ![]() Have a good day, John Last edited by VitaBene; 08-17-2008 at 01:25 AM. |
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#15 | |
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What do you mean by "there were no winners"!!! Talk about trying to get the last word! If you want to stop the controversy then don't post controversial lies! Bear Island won, WINNFABS won, Lake Winnipesaukee won, Sandy won, common sense won, 99% of the boaters on the lake won, I won! There are lots of winners. |
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#16 |
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The law is not an absolute law. It is arbitrary with 45/25 being a guide line. It is more of a reasonable and prudent law. And it is over in 2 years.
Having said that, The proponents didn't win because they want a permanent absolute law. The opponents didn't win because there is a guide line to their speeding. The lakefront property owners didn't win because of the erosion problem of large wakes due to 25 at night. But overall, everyone wins as there is a reasonable and prudent law in place. I would like to see that law in place permanently. It will be an effective tool for enforcing safety on the lake. Along with the 150' rule.
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#17 |
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The 45/25 lake speed limit is no more of a guideline than NH highway speed limits are a guide line. The exact same legal language is used in both.
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#18 |
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![]() Time to hold a wake...
Speaking of which, a prelude to the next line in the sand...
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#19 | |
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Please- do not call me a liar- I have never posted a lie on this site and never will. Do not say things from your couch what you would not say to me or anyone else in person. In this case I take your comment very personally. The purpose of my post that you took issue with was to extend an olive branch to both sides of this issue- but obviously you did not get that. Setting your personal attack aside- as I and others have said on this forum, this lake will change little based on a speed limit being imposed. I took a ride around the lake on my motorcycle today and stopped in the Weirs to see the progress on the repair work and to watch the traffic coming out of the Weirs channel. Guess what- I did not see a single boat exceeding what will be the new speed limit, though I did see one near T-boning due to a failure of a "boater" (the quotations are added to acknowledge that owning a boat does not in my eyes make one a boater) to understand the concept of stand on and give way as well as numerous violations of the 150' rule. I was there for a grand total of 10 minutes. It was a madhouse and will be after the speed limit goes into effect. Do you think this new law will be enforced more stringently than the 150' rule? Do you think that the performance boats will disappear and Winnipesaukee will become Squam lake? If so, I heard there is a bridge for sale somewhere in NY that you may want to check out. Sorry Don for getting pulled back into this debate but I could not let this one slide. |
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#20 |
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I have not posted on the speed limit debate (mostly because I do not have the knowledge to speak intelligently about it) but have watched the back and forth. That said, I am on my deck drinking my morning coffee and I am glad to see a few GFBL boats that have not heard about the law or do not care, either way, I love to watch them go by in the morning and will be sad to see that part of the Winnipesaukee experience go away.
Just my two cents, On a side note, my wife is happy saving all of the money I was dreaming of spending on a GFBL. |
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#21 |
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I was sitting on my dock this AM and along comes a pontoon boat wide open in the no wake zone not 15 feet from my dock. The last time a speed boat did that was...... never. Unfortunately I think that this law while for some was good intentioned and others had obvious alterior motives and others like BI made not quams about the issue and why they wanted the law past (at leate they were honest!!
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#22 | |
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Once again I agree. A high speed power boater can easily kill a kayaker. In fact almost all power boaters can easily kill a kayaker and the opposite is not true. Do you want to limit NH lakes to kayaks only. The fact is that there are laws in place that successfully keep power boaters from killing kayakers. I have read your resume in previous posts and understand that you are an accomplished kayaker and sailor. I was not questioning your abilities and comfort level on the water, When I said,,, Perhaps all those who detail their fear filled lake experiences as support for speed limits, were just in to deep. I am sorry if you read it that way. I did not mean you. The fact is that there are boats (power, sail, paddle) on NH lakes. These boats are ore owned and operated by both residents and tourists with various levels of experience and ability. Many are not at your level and may be in over there heads more than they realize. It is not right to limit everyone because some are simply inexperienced and afraid of the recreational activity they themselves choose to participate in. I believe that everyone and anyone has the equal right to post their views regarding the lake, including BR. This is a lake forum not a state election. If residents have more right than non residents ...do some residents have more right than others. I like you am a resident of NH but I also own a summer place on this lake. You may want to check with BI but I don't think I have any more right than you. Equal right to express does not mean that everything shared is held at equal value. For example: I have been water skiing with professional skiers and hold there ski advise higher than of my neighbor. I think that is what BR was trying to get at when he questioned your time on the one lake affected by the new speed limit. Winnipesaukee is in fact the only lake it applies to. I know you feel things will be different next year on Winni and plan to visit more often. I dont think you will see much change at all. There will still be a few inexperienced boaters that come too close to you, just like there will still be some inexperienced kayakers that need to be rescued by BR. Chase1 |
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