What is a wake?

Woodsy · 07-17-2008, 10:25 AM

Sam...

As I understand the statute in NH, No Wake is defined as the slowest speed possible where you can maintain steerage of the vessel, not to exceed 6MPH...

Now that being said I have seen and personally experienced the NHMP telling people to speed it up in a NWZ... as one MP officer told me last year "No Wake does not mean DEAD SLOW" (this was in the Weirs Channel on a busy weekend) I pointed to the big cruiser going dead slow 100' in front of me and politely asked the MP officer "where was I supposed to go?"

Property owners no doubt have a much different opinion as its thier property that is getting eroded by the wakes...

Woodsy

Evenstar · 07-17-2008, 10:36 AM

From NH RSA's: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-d-mrg.htm

CHAPTER 270-D : BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS

270-D:1 Definitions:

VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way.

VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed.

XII. "Wake'' means any disturbance created on the surface of the water as a result of combined vessel motion and hull displacement.

Wolfeboro_Baja · 07-17-2008, 10:55 AM

After you read the quotes of the RSA provided by Evenstar, you'll have to decide how slow you can go and still maintain steerage.

When I'm in a no wake zone (including Weirs Channel), I throttle all the way down to idle, which for our boat is around 750rpm -800rpm. At that speed, there are no visible "wake" lines following off our boat, just swirling water behind. Yes, there's some wander at that speed but if you're paying attention (as you should be!), you compensate! As conscientious boaters, my wife and I get annoyed when we see people leaving an obvious wake in any no wake zone (or a mooring field for that matter). If we're in the Weirs Channel or entering/leaving Meredith or Alton, we want to power up a little and get on plane just as fast as the next guy (even more so in hot weather) but a no wake zone is STILL a no wake zone and we won't do it.

The only exception to the above is when I'm in a long line of traffic in a long channel (like the Weirs Channel or between Governors Island and mainland) and someone is climbing up my back; then, I'll speed up just enough to move with the traffic flow. But if the rest of the traffic is travelling at the proper no wake speed, then every one will have to slow down also and deal with it. I'm sorry if that annoys someone who's in a hurry but it's the law.

Bear Islander · 07-17-2008, 12:03 PM

Actually "no wake" speed is the fastest you can go without taking the chance of someone in another boat yelling "HEY.... THIS IS A NO WAKE ZONE!" thus causing your wife to give you the hairy eyeball.

Woodsy · 07-17-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Actually "no wake" speed is the fastest you can go without taking the chance of someone in another boat yelling "HEY.... THIS IS A NO WAKE ZONE!" thus causing your wife to give you the hairy eyeball.

Now thats funny! LOL!

Woodsy

NightWing · 07-17-2008, 12:25 PM

The reply to those who yell "It won't go any slower" is to yell back "How do you dock?"

MAINLANDER · 07-17-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

The reply to those who yell "It won't go any slower" is to yell back "How do you dock?"

When the channel is not crowded I'm not going to keep shifting from gear to neutral to go dead slow. Idle speed leaves a very small wake.

NightWing · 07-17-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAINLANDER

When the channel is not crowded I'm not going to keep shifting from gear to neutral to go dead slow. Idle speed leaves a very small wake.

So, you get yelled at?

SteveA · 07-17-2008, 05:38 PM

Here is a web site that defines "wake" as it relates to boating.

You will see that this may very well be an issue that this forum can't solve.

My guess on the over/under on the number of posts on this one is >165. ( Any Takers?)

http://en.mimi.hu/boating/wake.html

I really like # 8 -- it brings into question a "Pleasure Craft".. Sounds like a whole new thread

tis · 07-17-2008, 05:50 PM

A few years ago I had the pleasure (?) of watching MP stop boats in a no wake zone. I think it totally depends on the opinion of the particular officer what is a wake and what isn't. One insisted that any little tiny wave was making a wake which is technically true. But I was really surprised that he stopped people for that little wave. However, I believe other officers would not consider that to be illegal. So as I said, I think it all depends on the officer. Like so many other laws there is a lot of interpretation.

topwater · 07-17-2008, 06:53 PM

Samiam, My hats off to ya brother for just being concerned about your wake. I am a Bass Fisherman and am always concerned about my actions are on the water. If more people on the water were like yourself, chances are the guy would have never yelled at you. They are correct about headway/no wake rules, but COMMON SENSE is the biggest factor with anything that happens on the lake. Once again, THANKS FOR BEING CONCERNED !

jrc · 07-17-2008, 07:08 PM

All I want to know is why does everyone pull out their cellphone the minute they get in the channel traffic. I even see PWC drivers doing it.

Sometime going upstream in the channel it can be tough to go dead slow if the current is moving. In the fall sometimes I have to throttle up a little just to make way.

My boat does around 4.5 mph (GPS) with both motors at idle. In the channel, I have to go to neutral a lot just to keep spacing. It can be stressful because in neutral or slow speeds the steering is ineffective and the rocks are big.

In non-traffic no wakes zones, I can sneak it up to 5 or 6 without leaving a wake and the boat is more steerable.

SIKSUKR · 07-18-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

All I want to know is why does everyone pull out their cellphone the minute they get in the channel traffic. I even see PWC drivers doing it.
.

That was probably me on my PWC.Hmm..let me see.I would have quite a hard time using my phone when under way with the boat on plane.Sure makes life easier to connect with my friends who are already on the water.Does this create more wake by using the phone or is this something that just gets under your skin because the lake is no place for a cellphone?If the answer is either one,then there ought to be a law or something.

jrc · 07-18-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

That was probably me on my PWC.Hmm..let me see.I would have quite a hard time using my phone when under way with the boat on plane.Sure makes life easier to connect with my friends who are already on the water.Does this create more wake by using the phone or is this something that just gets under your skin because the lake is no place for a cellphone?If the answer is either one,then there ought to be a law or something.

You are taking this too personal, I have nothing against PWCs or cell phones.
My boat always has at least two working cell phones and a Blackberry aboard. It's just that some people cannot drive and talk at the same time. When I'm in the channel on a busy day it takes a little concentration. Having someone weaving back and forth while they fumble around with their phone can add stress.

I mentioned PWC because it seems extra difficult to drive a PWC while you are dialing a phone. July 4th I was behind a PWC in the channel near the beach heading into Paugus. He takes out his phone and starts dialing, he slows to a stop in the channel. I do what I can to just sit motionless in the channel, it's tough. After dialing he grabs some throttle and continues, he's weaving but at least he's moving. I'm not saying he represent all riders but he could have waited until we cleared the tight area before making the call.

I hate the idea of cell phone driving laws, I have a long commute and I use my phone in the car a lot. But we have to start policing ourselves or these laws will continue to spread.

SIKSUKR · 07-18-2008, 12:42 PM

I guess I made that post sound like it was personal.I sort of had my tongue in cheek.I should have put a smiley at the end jrc.I'm guessing from your last post that the problem you had with people on the phone was that bozo holding up other boats while he calls whoever.I'd be pretty steamed also.But he wasn't making any wake though!!

bilproject · 07-18-2008, 09:30 AM

Here's a related twist to this thread. Summer of 2007 4 of us were on PWC (3seaters) near Beckey's garden. We had stopped to talk and were within about 10 feet of each other. After our discussion of direction to continue our ride, we each headed at 90 degrees away from each other (picture the 4 compass points) and as we were 75 feet or so apart we sped up and when more than 150 ft apart we each came to the heading we had agreed to. The marine police stopped the first boat to accelerate and gave him a warning for going greater than headway within 150 ft. Now I understand that technically the officer is correct. However, in practice it seems that when a boat is in a congested area (no wake zone with boats lined up nose to tail 50 ft apart) as the lead boat reaches a point were it can safely (end of no wake zone boat ahead more than 150 away) go to plane it does. Later the same day we were headed to the Nasawa and a marine patrol boat was observing traffic on the lake side of the channel. As we were headed in I saw boat after boat reach the end of the no wake accelerate with less than 150' between them and the boat behind. More than a little upset I motored over to the patrol boat to find the same office that had earlier issued the warning. I asked why he had not stopped at least one of the boats violating the 150 ft rule. His response was the boats would never get a 150 seperation as they were all moving at the same speed and would be strung out to the eagle island no wake. He further said that there was no danger as long as the boat behind waited until the boat ahead has achieved the 150 seperation before the boat behind took off. When I asked about our earlier meeting he stated that we each should have waited (boat to rear would have to come to a complete stop) until we had 150 in all directions. My question was why if "there was no danger"
Just an interesting twist on the rules. Unwritten rule on the intercoastal is that you don't worry about what is behind you when accelerating out of a channel or no wake, only what is in front or to the side. Maybe they were just trying to get up the numbers on PWC stops that summer as it seemed like every boat stopped by the MP was a PWC.

ossipeeboater · 07-20-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilproject

Here's a related twist to this thread. Summer of 2007 4 of us were on PWC (3seaters) near Beckey's garden. We had stopped to talk and were within about 10 feet of each other. After our discussion of direction to continue our ride, we each headed at 90 degrees away from each other (picture the 4 compass points) and as we were 75 feet or so apart we sped up and when more than 150 ft apart we each came to the heading we had agreed to. The marine police stopped the first boat to accelerate and gave him a warning for going greater than headway within 150 ft. Now I understand that technically the officer is correct. However, in practice it seems that when a boat is in a congested area (no wake zone with boats lined up nose to tail 50 ft apart) as the lead boat reaches a point were it can safely (end of no wake zone boat ahead more than 150 away) go to plane it does. Later the same day we were headed to the Nasawa and a marine patrol boat was observing traffic on the lake side of the channel. As we were headed in I saw boat after boat reach the end of the no wake accelerate with less than 150' between them and the boat behind. More than a little upset I motored over to the patrol boat to find the same office that had earlier issued the warning. I asked why he had not stopped at least one of the boats violating the 150 ft rule. His response was the boats would never get a 150 seperation as they were all moving at the same speed and would be strung out to the eagle island no wake. He further said that there was no danger as long as the boat behind waited until the boat ahead has achieved the 150 seperation before the boat behind took off. When I asked about our earlier meeting he stated that we each should have waited (boat to rear would have to come to a complete stop) until we had 150 in all directions. My question was why if "there was no danger"
Just an interesting twist on the rules. Unwritten rule on the intercoastal is that you don't worry about what is behind you when accelerating out of a channel or no wake, only what is in front or to the side. Maybe they were just trying to get up the numbers on PWC stops that summer as it seemed like every boat stopped by the MP was a PWC.

there's a different set of standards applied to jet skis. Every weekend I see PWC operators harassed, unfortunately as a group we bring it on ourselves because theres a ton of idiots on them. Never been pulled over in my boat, been pulled 2x for a 150 violation on the jet ski and in neither case could the MP have seen how far away I actually was because of his angle. In both cases once we established the fact I lived there they drove away but had I been a renter I'd have gotten a ticket.

Airwaves · 07-21-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilproject

As we were headed in I saw boat after boat reach the end of the no wake accelerate with less than 150' between them and the boat behind. More than a little upset I motored over to the patrol boat to find the same office that had earlier issued the warning. I asked why he had not stopped at least one of the boats violating the 150 ft rule. His response was the boats would never get a 150 seperation as they were all moving at the same speed and would be strung out to the eagle island no wake.

This is one of the problems with NH boating laws. The Safe Passage rule and the rule regarding overtaking another vessel (essentially what you're talking about here because the vessel being overtaken changed speed) conflict.
This is an annoyance now, next year such a stop, that ends in a ticket being issued, will be reported to DMV and go against your driving record.

I have to agree with ossipeeboater when it comes to PWC riders. They are targets on the water for the NHMP especially if they are bored. I have a friend with a PWC a High Performance boat and a smaller bowrider. She has never been stopped in her High Performance or smaller boat but when she is on her PWC and there is a MP in the area she is always stopped.

This'nThat · 02-08-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

A few years ago I had the pleasure (?) of watching MP stop boats in a no wake zone. I think it totally depends on the opinion of the particular officer what is a wake and what isn't. One insisted that any little tiny wave was making a wake which is technically true. But I was really surprised that he stopped people for that little wave. However, I believe other officers would not consider that to be illegal. So as I said, I think it all depends on the officer. Like so many other laws there is a lot of interpretation.

The problem here is that a "wake" definition is being used, rather than a proper "no wake" definition. The difference? "Wake" is defined as water ripples. "No wake" is defined as the minimum speed at which a motorized watercraft is able to move and maintain adequate steerage control. That minimum speed is likely to leave a small wake, which the officers are focusing on. If they focused on the no-wake definition, and spent a minute observing the boat operator, they would see that the boat operator is constantly adjusting his steering to keep the boat on course; therefore, the boat operator is observing the "no-wake" rule, even if the boat leaves small ripples.

As for the person on shore yelling at the boats? He really needs to get a life --- and perhaps a brain.

hazelnut · 02-08-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This'nThat

As for the person on shore yelling at the boats? He really needs to get a life --- and perhaps a brain.

I AGREE!!!!! Seriously I get the biggest kick out of watching people who freak out on others whether on land or on another boat. What makes me laugh is that I thought we were all supposed to be relaxing out on the lake. Aren't we supposed to leave the stress at home? So why waste your breath on an idiot? When I see an idiot ignoring a no wake zone or coming too close I usually shake my head and laugh at them. I figure that they're too stupid to listen to me, or anyone for that matter, screaming the rules at them. The reality is that the person screeching from shore ends up getting laughed at by the offender and anyone else within ear shot. Maybe some people just enjoy shouting at others and that's what relaxes them?

07-17-2008, 10:25 AM	#1
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,965 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Sam... As I understand the statute in NH, No Wake is defined as the slowest speed possible where you can maintain steerage of the vessel, not to exceed 6MPH... Now that being said I have seen and personally experienced the NHMP telling people to speed it up in a NWZ... as one MP officer told me last year "No Wake does not mean DEAD SLOW" (this was in the Weirs Channel on a busy weekend) I pointed to the big cruiser going dead slow 100' in front of me and politely asked the MP officer "where was I supposed to go?" Property owners no doubt have a much different opinion as its thier property that is getting eroded by the wakes... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

07-17-2008, 10:36 AM	#2
Evenstar Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Littleton, NH Posts: 382 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	From NH RSA's: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-d-mrg.htm CHAPTER 270-D : BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS 270-D:1 Definitions: VI. "Headway speed'' means 6 miles per hour or the slowest speed that a boat can be operated and maintain steerage way. VIII. "No wake area'' means an area where a boat is to be operated only at headway speed. XII. "Wake'' means any disturbance created on the surface of the water as a result of combined vessel motion and hull displacement. __________________ "Boaters love boats . . . Kayakers love water."

07-17-2008, 05:38 PM	#9
SteveA Deceased Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 2,311 Thanks: 1,070 Thanked 2,054 Times in 497 Posts	I almost hate to do this.. but what the heck Here is a web site that defines "wake" as it relates to boating. You will see that this may very well be an issue that this forum can't solve. My guess on the over/under on the number of posts on this one is >165. ( Any Takers?) http://en.mimi.hu/boating/wake.html I really like # 8 -- it brings into question a "Pleasure Craft".. Sounds like a whole new thread __________________ "Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry he'll be a mile away and barefoot!" unknown Last edited by SteveA; 07-17-2008 at 07:07 PM. Reason: added info

07-18-2008, 12:42 PM	#15
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Sorry jrc I guess I made that post sound like it was personal.I sort of had my tongue in cheek.I should have put a smiley at the end jrc.I'm guessing from your last post that the problem you had with people on the phone was that bozo holding up other boats while he calls whoever.I'd be pretty steamed also.But he wasn't making any wake though!! __________________ SIKSUKR

07-17-2008, 10:55 AM	#3
Wolfeboro_Baja Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hopkinton NH Posts: 395 Thanks: 88 Thanked 80 Times in 46 Posts	After you read the quotes of the RSA provided by Evenstar, you'll have to decide how slow you can go and still maintain steerage. When I'm in a no wake zone (including Weirs Channel), I throttle all the way down to idle, which for our boat is around 750rpm -800rpm. At that speed, there are no visible "wake" lines following off our boat, just swirling water behind. Yes, there's some wander at that speed but if you're paying attention (as you should be!), you compensate! As conscientious boaters, my wife and I get annoyed when we see people leaving an obvious wake in any no wake zone (or a mooring field for that matter). If we're in the Weirs Channel or entering/leaving Meredith or Alton, we want to power up a little and get on plane just as fast as the next guy (even more so in hot weather) but a no wake zone is STILL a no wake zone and we won't do it. The only exception to the above is when I'm in a long line of traffic in a long channel (like the Weirs Channel or between Governors Island and mainland) and someone is climbing up my back; then, I'll speed up just enough to move with the traffic flow. But if the rest of the traffic is travelling at the proper no wake speed, then every one will have to slow down also and deal with it. I'm sorry if that annoys someone who's in a hurry but it's the law.

07-17-2008, 12:03 PM	#4
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	Actually "no wake" speed is the fastest you can go without taking the chance of someone in another boat yelling "HEY.... THIS IS A NO WAKE ZONE!" thus causing your wife to give you the hairy eyeball.

07-17-2008, 12:25 PM	#6
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	The reply to those who yell "It won't go any slower" is to yell back "How do you dock?"

07-17-2008, 05:50 PM	#10
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,715 Thanks: 752 Thanked 1,457 Times in 1,014 Posts	A few years ago I had the pleasure (?) of watching MP stop boats in a no wake zone. I think it totally depends on the opinion of the particular officer what is a wake and what isn't. One insisted that any little tiny wave was making a wake which is technically true. But I was really surprised that he stopped people for that little wave. However, I believe other officers would not consider that to be illegal. So as I said, I think it all depends on the officer. Like so many other laws there is a lot of interpretation.

07-17-2008, 06:53 PM	#11
topwater Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 302 Thanks: 85 Thanked 116 Times in 48 Posts	Samiam, My hats off to ya brother for just being concerned about your wake. I am a Bass Fisherman and am always concerned about my actions are on the water. If more people on the water were like yourself, chances are the guy would have never yelled at you. They are correct about headway/no wake rules, but COMMON SENSE is the biggest factor with anything that happens on the lake. Once again, THANKS FOR BEING CONCERNED !

07-17-2008, 07:08 PM	#12
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	All I want to know is why does everyone pull out their cellphone the minute they get in the channel traffic. I even see PWC drivers doing it. Sometime going upstream in the channel it can be tough to go dead slow if the current is moving. In the fall sometimes I have to throttle up a little just to make way. My boat does around 4.5 mph (GPS) with both motors at idle. In the channel, I have to go to neutral a lot just to keep spacing. It can be stressful because in neutral or slow speeds the steering is ineffective and the rocks are big. In non-traffic no wakes zones, I can sneak it up to 5 or 6 without leaving a wake and the boat is more steerable.

07-18-2008, 09:30 AM	#16
bilproject Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bear Island/Fort Myers, Fla Posts: 229 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1 Thanked 59 Times in 41 Posts	Here's a related twist to this thread. Summer of 2007 4 of us were on PWC (3seaters) near Beckey's garden. We had stopped to talk and were within about 10 feet of each other. After our discussion of direction to continue our ride, we each headed at 90 degrees away from each other (picture the 4 compass points) and as we were 75 feet or so apart we sped up and when more than 150 ft apart we each came to the heading we had agreed to. The marine police stopped the first boat to accelerate and gave him a warning for going greater than headway within 150 ft. Now I understand that technically the officer is correct. However, in practice it seems that when a boat is in a congested area (no wake zone with boats lined up nose to tail 50 ft apart) as the lead boat reaches a point were it can safely (end of no wake zone boat ahead more than 150 away) go to plane it does. Later the same day we were headed to the Nasawa and a marine patrol boat was observing traffic on the lake side of the channel. As we were headed in I saw boat after boat reach the end of the no wake accelerate with less than 150' between them and the boat behind. More than a little upset I motored over to the patrol boat to find the same office that had earlier issued the warning. I asked why he had not stopped at least one of the boats violating the 150 ft rule. His response was the boats would never get a 150 seperation as they were all moving at the same speed and would be strung out to the eagle island no wake. He further said that there was no danger as long as the boat behind waited until the boat ahead has achieved the 150 seperation before the boat behind took off. When I asked about our earlier meeting he stated that we each should have waited (boat to rear would have to come to a complete stop) until we had 150 in all directions. My question was why if "there was no danger" Just an interesting twist on the rules. Unwritten rule on the intercoastal is that you don't worry about what is behind you when accelerating out of a channel or no wake, only what is in front or to the side. Maybe they were just trying to get up the numbers on PWC stops that summer as it seemed like every boat stopped by the MP was a PWC.