Big Wakes, what to do?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

"...My point in proposing this was also in response to ways to control large boats and their impact on the lake..."

How about "Impact Fees"?

Originally Posted by Cal

500 hp in a 20' boat could be a real fun ride

400 horsepower in a bigger boat produced this magazine report:

"A few years ago I had the misfortune to test the Baja Hammer...That experience etched an indelible memory of a boat that was impossible to hold in a straight line and that bucked like a rodeo bull...Plagued by chine walk and spontaneous skips she was one of the most evil handling boats I have ever driven...,"

Originally Posted by hazelnut

"...You want to know why someone accuses you of inflaming others and you post some second hand unconfirmed snide remark like this...?"

You may recall Sunsation's factory representative and his comment about Sunsations on a Maine lake as being "too much boat for that lake"?

Here's a comment at a Sunsation forum:

This ban keeps all Sunsation's from boating on [Lake Martin, in Alabama]. If you have any "pull" or wish to help out, let me know. This law includes me, three 32's, two 28's and the 43 with 600's. That 43 is going to this lake...and may affect another five lakes...]"

"Pull"?

Alabama has boating elitists?

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

"...Eleven of the largest lakes in Alabama now have a 500 Horsepower limit. I wonder how many people believed that could never happen...?"

Alabama's Lake Martin is 40,000 acres.

Originally Posted by jrc

"...I will tell you that Alabama has these pretty scary limits on some mid-sized lakes...:"

Lake Martin is 40,000 acres—Winnipesaukee-sized.

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...Surprisingly, the 220' Mount Washington leaves a pretty dull wake..."

YES IT DOES! How it has achieved "urban-myth" status here is beyond me.

Some days, it passes me twice—most often when the wind dies!

[Woodsy]

Those lakes in Alabama that you so gleefully use as examples of HP limits are NOT OWNED by the people of Alabama.... They are owned by Alabama Power Co.! The HP limit came about because of the liability concerns of the Power Company....

A quick quote from thier website....

"Attention Property Owners
Alabama Power holds property rights around the lake as required by the Federal Government. So before you begin construction, make changes or additions to any structures or the shoreline, you need to call Alabama Power Company for a permit. An Alabama Power representative will meet with you. To schedule an appointment, call 1-800-LAKES-11 (525-3711) (in Birmingham, 257-1077) or visit shoreline management."

Imagine if that were the case here? YIKES!! BI & APS would have to answer to a Power Company!


Woodsy

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Those lakes in Alabama that you so gleefully use as examples of HP limits are NOT OWNED by the people of Alabama.... They are owned by Alabama Power Co.! The HP limit came about because of the liability concerns of the Power Company....

A quick quote from thier website....

"Attention Property Owners
Alabama Power holds property rights around the lake as required by the Federal Government. So before you begin construction, make changes or additions to any structures or the shoreline, you need to call Alabama Power Company for a permit. An Alabama Power representative will meet with you. To schedule an appointment, call 1-800-LAKES-11 (525-3711) (in Birmingham, 257-1077) or visit shoreline management."

Imagine if that were the case here? YIKES!! BI & APS would have to answer to a Power Company!


Woodsy

I didn't know and don't care who owned the lakes in Alabama. They are just an example of what is happening out there, as Woodsy knows very well. Horsepower limits, houseboat restrictions, length limits, manufacturers maximum listed speed, what does it matter. They all add up limits on big boats. If you go to offshoreonly.com you can read post after post about high performance boats being regulated off of lakes.

I guess the question is why am I warning you about what is coming? OK, I will stop.

[Nauset]

What gets me is all the fuss some property owners make about the impact of having boats on the lake basically two days a week for three or four months a year. But on the other hand we have much of the shore line filled with camps, cottages, and now mega mansions at an increasing rate with their fertilized lawns on cleared lots with all the runoff, septic systems leaching into the water shed, sandy beaches and on and on. Until these property owners rip down their buildings and replant all the trees that prevent erosion they should not utter a word about someone else enjoying the lake. It chalks up to a few well connected, well funded, loud mouths with elitist thoughts that they should be calling all the shots. It’s more about the hidden agenda of having it all and keeping it exclusive and not sharing. I said it before, the definition of an environmentalist is someone who already built his vacation home.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Nauset

What gets me is all the fuss some property owners make about the impact of having boats on the lake basically two days a week for three or four months a year. But on the other hand we have much of the shore line filled with camps, cottages, and now mega mansions at an increasing rate with their fertilized lawns on cleared lots with all the runoff, septic systems leaching into the water shed, sandy beaches and on and on. Until these property owners rip down their buildings and replant all the trees that prevent erosion they should not utter a word about someone else enjoying the lake. It chalks up to a few well connected, well funded, loud mouths with elitist thoughts that they should be calling all the shots. It’s more about the hidden agenda of having it all and keeping it exclusive and not sharing. I said it before, the definition of an environmentalist is someone who already built his vacation home.

Nauset

So if someone gave you a lakefront cabin what would you do?

Your main options would seem to be sell it, live in it, or tear it down and plant trees. If your answer is the latter, I don't believe you.

If you would sell or live in it, then who is living in a glass house!



I have a moderate cabin on pilings, legal septic, no grass, no fertilizer, no landscaping, no beach. But you say I need to tear that down before I am allowed to "utter a word" about boating restrictions. What version of the Constitution did they teach you in school?

[Nauset]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Nauset

So if someone gave you a lakefront cabin what would you do?

Your main options would seem to be sell it, live in it, or tear it down and plant trees. If your answer is the latter, I don't believe you.

If you would sell or live in it, then who is living in a glass house!

You missed one option and the point! I would use it, and enjoy it, and not try to infringe on other people's enjoyment with an excuse of protecting the environment or public safety.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Nauset

You missed one option and the point! I would use it, and enjoy it, and not try to infringe on other people's enjoyment with an excuse of protecting the environment or public safety.

Suppose after using it for a few years you become convinced that public safety and pollution are a problem. You read the water quality reports and you are concerned about the dropping quality of your drinking water. You have had a few close calls on the lake and decide something must be done about congestion. So now you speak out for a speed or horsepower limit, and you are told, over and over, that you are lying about your real reason for that support. And people are mistakenly saying that all you REALLY want is to keep others from enjoying the lake. Would you think that was fair? Would you dislike being called a liar?

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Suppose after using it for a few years you become convinced that public safety and pollution are a problem. You read the water quality reports and you are concerned about the dropping quality of your drinking water. You have had a few close calls on the lake and decide something must be done about congestion. So now you speak out for a speed or horsepower limit, and you are told, over and over, that you are lying about your real reason for that support, and all you REALLY want is to keep others from enjoying the lake. Would you think that was fair? Would you dislike being called a liar?

Well liar is a strong word but right in this post you say that you're really concerned about dropping water quality and congestion. Yet you lobby hard on this board for laws like a speed and HP limit. These will at best tangentally, improve these things. Why not lobby for a direct solution? A ban on out-of date septics systems, stronger bans on lawn and fertilizers and a numerical limit to the number of power boats on the lake would directly address your concerns. If your concerned about wakes, why not a weight limit instead of a HP limit or better yet a ban on making big wakes.

It's all the indirection that bothers me.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by jrc

Well liar is a strong word but right in this post you say that you're really concerned about dropping water quality and congestion. Yet you lobby hard on this board for laws like a speed and HP limit. These will at best tangentally, improve these things. Why not lobby for a direct solution? A ban on out-of date septics systems, stronger bans on lawn and fertilizers and a numerical limit to the number of power boats on the lake would directly address your concerns. If your concerned about wakes, why not a weight limit instead of a HP limit or better yet a ban on making big wakes.

It's all the indirection that bothers me.

Tangential is better than nothing.

A stronger septic law like the "Title 5" in Massachusetts is a great idea. I believe fertilizer near the lake is already banned by the Shoreland act. A numeric limit is OK, what would be the details? Who gets to be one of the few? A weight limit instead of horsepower limit is fine by me, adds up to about the same thing.

Be prepared, there will be a lot of resistance to all those ideas.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by jrc

Well liar is a strong word but right in this post you say that you're really concerned about dropping water quality and congestion. Yet you lobby hard on this board for laws like a speed and HP limit. These will at best tangentally, improve these things. Why not lobby for a direct solution? A ban on out-of date septics systems, stronger bans on lawn and fertilizers and a numerical limit to the number of power boats on the lake would directly address your concerns. If your concerned about wakes, why not a weight limit instead of a HP limit or better yet a ban on making big wakes.

It's all the indirection that bothers me.

GREAT POST!!!!! SO WELL SAID! I believe this surmises my feelings extremely succinctly. Thank you jrc!!!!!

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

400 horsepower in a bigger boat produced this magazine report:

Yeah , so what's your point? Poorly designed boat , experienced writer and inexperienced boater?
I had a FourWinns 211 Liberator from 1993 till 2000 with 625 hp that could stand the needle of an 85mph speedo straight down(no gps yet) and it handled like it was on rails. OMG , I'm starting to sound like Evenstar but with an indestructible Liberator instead of a Sea Kayak

BTW 79* to 83* here today and headed out on the Chesapeake today for a lunch run. I'll see If I can push some warm weather your way

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

How about "Impact Fees"?

We have boat registration and boat fees, if you want to suggest raising the rate, have at it. The fees are based on size, type and age.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Alabama's Lake Martin is 40,000 acres.


Lake Martin is 40,000 acres—Winnipesaukee-sized.

It's mid-sized for Alabama, they have several larger lakes without these restrictions. Largest lakes for large boats, medium lakes for medium boats... maybe they are on to something.

[Resident 2B]

BI,

Reference your post #77 on this thread, you're quoted: "So now you speak out for a speed or horsepower limit, and you are told, over and over, that you are lying about your real reason for that support, and all you REALLY want is to keep others from enjoying the lake."

However, this is from you on another thread on the forum:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

"I" am targeting performance boats, the speed limit movement is not.

I though I was making this distinction clear, but it seems I was wrong.

I am really getting dizzy with your spins, but they good, clean entertainment!

Thanks!

R2B

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

BI,

Reference your post #77 on this thread, you're quoted: "So now you speak out for a speed or horsepower limit, and you are told, over and over, that you are lying about your real reason for that support, and all you REALLY want is to keep others from enjoying the lake."

However, this is from you on another thread on the forum:



I am really getting dizzy with your spins, but they good, clean entertainment!

Thanks!

R2B

I'm thinking you are misreading post #77. I was supposing that Nauset was being misunderstood. That people were saying that was what he really wanted, but that it was not true.

Sorry, it may have been confusing. Then again, if you were not looking to attack whatever I post, you might have understood it better.

[Resident 2B]

BI,

I see you have edited post #77, so I can no longer read what was there.

R2B

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

BI,

I see you have edited post #77, so I can no longer read what was there.

R2B

If you look at post #80 you will see what I originally posted. You quoted it there.

When you compare the two you will be disappointed to learn that all I did was make it more clear so that others will not make the same error you did.

[Grady223]

Woodsy says:

Those lakes in Alabama that you so gleefully use as examples of HP limits are NOT OWNED by the people of Alabama.... They are owned by Alabama Power Co.! The HP limit came about because of the liability concerns of the Power Company....

A quick quote from thier website....

"Attention Property Owners
Alabama Power holds property rights around the lake as required by the Federal Government. So before you begin construction, make changes or additions to any structures or the shoreline, you need to call Alabama Power Company for a permit. An Alabama Power representative will meet with you. To schedule an appointment, call 1-800-LAKES-11 (525-3711) (in Birmingham, 257-1077) or visit shoreline management."

Imagine if that were the case here? YIKES!! BI & APS would have to answer to a Power Company!

Grady223 says:

Lake Wallenpaupack in PA is 5,700 acreas and has 52 miles of shoreline, it is owned by the PA Power & Light and talk about restrictions, you are only allowed to go counter clockwise around the lake! We had to go 1/4 mile clockwise to get where we were going and were re-directed by the marine police to turn around and go around the entire lake - it didn't take the full 52 miles but took us out of our way at least 20 miles. I wonder if that would work at Winnipesaukee? Imagine leaving Wolfeboro and going by way of Center Harbor to get to Alton!