Outhouse Pump Out

[Pricestavern]

Is there anything like an "Outhouse pump out"? I've know about septic pump outs but haven't heard anything (and maybe for good reason) about outhouses.

We purchased our place on Rattlesnake last year and the outhouse in the back is, er.....full, if ya know what I mean.

Can I get the "filling" removed, or must I dig another?

[Bear Islander]

You can't dig another without breaking the law. Most islanders are tolerant of their neighbors, however I for one, would turn you in immediately.

[Pepper]

BearIslander - since you've offered up that digging a new one is illegal, could you possibly offer up what the legal solution to the problem would be?

[Airwaves]

Pricestavern,
Since Bear Islander appears ready to circle Rattlesnake til he finds you to turn you in, I'd make a call to Island Support Services and see what they say. I don't know them and I've never done business with them but who knows, they might have an answer for you.
Good luck
AW

[Formula260SS]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

Is there anything like an "Outhouse pump out"? I've know about septic pump outs but haven't heard anything (and maybe for good reason) about outhouses.

We purchased our place on Rattlesnake last year and the outhouse in the back is, er.....full, if ya know what I mean.

Can I get the "filling" removed, or must I dig another?

I heard on Squam they just dig the existing one's out. At a friends place we call it "Stirring the Pot" even I have participated in this ritual of taking a stick and spreading the love around to make more room.

I'm wondering why you can't add some peat, blow some air through there and get some sort of compost process going. Something to think about

[Formula260SS]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You can't dig another without breaking the law. Most islanders are tolerant of their neighbors, however I for one, would turn you in immediately.

Bear just wondering what happens when you are say climbing a mountain, do you carry it out ? Just curious

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You can't dig another without breaking the law. Most islanders are tolerant of their neighbors, however I for one, would turn you in immediately.

I second the quote above. I didn't believe out houses were legal for many years. Put in a septic system and/or holding tank that can be pumped with out screwing up the environment.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You can't dig another without breaking the law. Most islanders are tolerant of their neighbors, however I for one, would turn you in immediately.

Yikes! Any solutions to the original question?

[hemlockpoint]

I am afraid there is a misconception here that these systems are illegal. They are not under certain conditions. This is from the State rules.
In reality a modern septic system is much more environmentally unsound than a properly constructed privy.
Think about it. A 3 bedroom system can discharge 450 gallons of wastewater into the environment dail.Where does it go???

PART Env-Wq 1022 ALTERNATE SYSTEMS
Env-Wq 1022.01 Privies.
(a) No privy shall be located within 75 feet of drinking water wells, surface waters, or foundations
on abutting lots.
(b) Subject to (c), below, the bottom of the privy pit shall be at least 4 feet above seasonal high
water table and impermeable substratum or ledge.
(c) If the bottom of the privy pit is less than 4 feet above the seasonal high water table or
impermeable substratum or ledge, the pit shall be sealed.
Env-Wq 1022.02 Mini-Dry Wells for Gray Water.
(a) A mini-dry well shall be used for the disposal of gray water only if there will be no running
water to, or other wastewater discharge from, the structure to be served.
(b) No mini-dry well for gray water shall be within 75 feet of drinking water wells or surface
waters.
(c) A mini-dry well for gray water shall be a hole up to 18 inches in diameter and 12 inches deep,
filled with stone or gravel.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Formula260SS

Bear just wondering what happens when you are say climbing a mountain, do you carry it out ? Just curious

We use commercially available large plastic bags that come with a little Kitty litter in them. This is required by the Antarctic Treaty when visiting there. We always have several Nalgene plastic bottles in different colors for water and urine. Dogs are no longer allowed in Antarctica because they can't learn to use the bags. Bags and bottled urine are flown out for disposal in Chile.

You can't dig a new outhouse but you can use a composting toilet, propane toilet or an approved septic system. The first two are very cheap, the latter costs a lot.

[hemlockpoint]

excerpt from the DES FAQs

Composting toilets Allowed, but no leach field reduction allowed for the remaining wastewater whenever the building has running water.

"Mini dry well" and privies Only allowed for buildings with no running water.

For more information:

For more information about the above list, or to apply for approval of an innovative/alternative product from DES, please contact: James Falicon, NH Department of Environmental Services, 29 Hazen Drive, Concord, NH 03301; (603) 271-2915.

[Formula260SS]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

We use commercially available large plastic bags that come with a little Kitty litter in them. This is required by the Antarctic Treaty when visiting there. We always have several Nalgene plastic bottles in different colors for water and urine. Dogs are no longer allowed in Antarctica because they can't learn to use the bags. Bags and bottled urine are flown out for disposal in Chile.

I figured they would have had some way to compost or possibly incenerate the waste. Thats interesting how they handle it, thanks for the info

[dpg]

Originally Posted by hemlockpoint

I am afraid there is a misconception here that these systems are illegal. They are not under certain conditions. This is from the State rules.
In reality a modern septic system is much more environmentally unsound than a properly constructed privy.
Think about it. A 3 bedroom system can discharge 450 gallons of wastewater into the environment dail.Where does it go???

450 gallons? That's just one of my kids shower!

[Weirs guy]

The most biodegradable substance on earth, placed into an area where it cant biodegrade. I'm not saying lets all tinkle in the lake and then drink it, but you would think there would be a better way by now.

[froggy]

Originally Posted by Formula260SS

I heard on Squam they just dig the existing one's out. At a friends place we call it "Stirring the Pot" even I have participated in this ritual of taking a stick and spreading the love around to make more room.

I'm wondering why you can't add some peat, blow some air through there and get some sort of compost process going. Something to think about

STIRRING THE POT, is a great plan.
I have friends who used to own a "camp" in Pittsburgh, NH., with an outhouse. They'd sprinkle lots of lime and stir the pot!

I also have a friend year-round resident in Meredith who has an "attached" one-holer; I'll have to ask if they "stir the pot"!

[Formula260SS]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

The most biodegradable substance on earth, placed into an area where it cant biodegrade. I'm not saying lets all tinkle in the lake and then drink it, but you would think there would be a better way by now.

I can say that the composter I have seen in action does a great job, airflow is the key. I have one ready and waiting for ice out on the island. I know there is science that data that somehow supports the current way of disposing of waste but it seems to me there can be other more efficient ways to deal with it rather than leaching it into the ground with a traditional system. What happens to the stuff the kucka suka takes away, that has to go somewhere right?

[CanisLupusArctos]

When in the Outing Club during college (a very enviro-conscious bunch of people) they had outhouses at their cabins in the White Mountains. They were composting outhouses. Each outhouse had a small cement foundation that was hollow with 2 compartments, each accessible from a little door on the side of the foundation.

Directly underneath the pottie seat in the outhouse was compartment #1.... freshies. The only things we were allowed to put in there were poopies and toilet paper if we could help it... and "flush" with a handful of cedar chips (big bag was kept in the outhouse.) This compartment would be allowed to sit for a year.

After a year it would be shoveled into compartment #2, mixed with a few shovelfuls of cedar chips, and closed up for another year.

Once every year the club would run a work trip during which they'd open compartment #2 and find a pile of potting soil which they spread around the forest. Then they'd hold their noses as they opened compartment #1 and started shoveling it into empty compartment #2 for its second year of composting.

As a freshman I wasn't sure I'd like the outhouses but they really weren't bad at all. They weren't too cold in winter, no worries about clogging by using too much TP, and they smelled like cedar chips.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by hemlockpoint

"...In reality a modern septic system is much more environmentally unsound than a properly constructed privy..."

I agree. I have river-front friends in a Maine neighborhood who just move their outhouses on occasion.
One of our Lakes Region's biggest lakes has outhouses everywhere on the islands, but remains a "Class A" lake—as opposed to Lake Winnipesaukee, which lost it's "Class A" rating in the 70's.

(I think, due to dishwashers, a rarity on many islands. Dishwasher detergents got a "pass" over clothes washing detergent for excess phosphates.)

When you add phosphorus-laden dishwasher detergent to the leaching field, it's down into the lake waters eventually to feed algae and milfoil. Last I read up on this subject, a recommendation was made to build the leaching fields with calcium carbonate-based rock and not the igneous rock used in New Hampshire—and, likely, in Massachusetts. (Calcium carbonate chemically binds-up the phosphates.)

Even where calcium carbonate leaching fields are common (like Florida), I receive a notice every year at my Florida lakefront property to voluntarily pump-out every three years). My Florida oceanfront property faces some really strict measures—so strict, I probably shouldn't have bought there until resolved by the local government. (Vertical, $20,000, above-ground aerobic septics, requiring monthly inspections and continuous pumped-in air )

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

"...We purchased our place on Rattlesnake last year and the outhouse in the back is, er.....full, if ya know what I mean. Can I get the "filling" removed, or must I dig another...?

Rattlesnake Island's not Parker Island. ('Hope that's sufficient encouragement ).

Even if the sellers didn't disclose the problem, digging's still a better solution than bringing a lawsuit against the sellers, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

"...You can't dig another without breaking the law..."

Digging another hole is illegal, but this lot slated for development on Rattlesnake Island is legal?

[hemlockpoint]

If a barge is out at your island with a truck to do septic pumpouts they may be able to clean out by pumping liquid back and forth from the truck. (The pump goes both ways). Be prepared for a big price. It might be easier just to shovel it out before the first use of the new season. I know it is always the first task when I go up for the season although my young boys always want to be the first to "try it out" so I have to make them wait.