NH natives are in the minority!

[Merrymeeting]

Perhaps we need to realign the state boundaries. If you look at the voting records you will see that Massachusetts is much like NH. West of Rt 495, the voting and attitudes are very similar to those of "traditional" NH.

Unfortunately, the voting majority is inside 495.

[phoenix]

so we could do a "Gerrymander" take the Mass portion west of 495 and come up through the western portion of New Hampshire( Keene) then cut over north of Manchester and then up to the Canadian border. Maybe we could also take some portion of vermont while we are at it. I think I read a couple of years ago that some town in Vermont wanted to become part of New Hampshire

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Maybe we could also take some portion of vermont while we are at it. I think I read a couple of years ago that some town in Vermont wanted to become part of New Hampshire

That was Killington, but Vermont can keep all of itself to itself!

Originally Posted by Mark

My friend Chief Fulla Bull says you are all talking with a crooked tongue. The real indigenous NH people named the lake Winnipesaukee. They named the Weirs too. People from over the border came and changed the land.

Native NHites are recent natives. Native because your dictionary lets you call yourself a native if you were born here.

Uhg says my friend. The true natives are the ones that can open a casino on their reservations. The ones that named most of this area.

Not to lose perspective here. Which natives are afraid of invasion from across the borders?

indigenous (from Merriam Webster online) :
1. having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment
2 : innate, inborn

So yes, white mans dictionary tells me I'm indigenous. Does Chief Fulla Bull contend his people popped out of the dirt on Tower Hill, or did his people move here at one time too?

[SIKSUKR]

If we look at where man might really have come from,ie evolving from ape-like creatures,I don't believe there were any of those indigenous to North America.So I would deduce that American Indians didn't drop out of the sky or pop up through the ground and thus all mankind in NH came from somewhere else.Do they teach this kind of thinking anywhere?

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

indigenous (from Merriam Webster online) :
1. having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment
2 : innate, inborn
So yes, white mans dictionary tells me I'm indigenous. Does Chief Fulla Bull contend his people popped out of the dirt on Tower Hill, or did his people move here at one time too?

Chief Fulla Bull heard the words and questions from the crooked tongues. He said he looked over that Lady’s book (Merriam of Merriam-Webster – I didn’t bother to explain). You and her book call yourselves native. But you do not give all the meanings. BTW, he said he knows what Merriam means by inborn.

Number 10 on the same list of meanings is Native American: of, relating to or being a member of an aboriginal people of North or South America. His ancestors fit that definition of native too, how about you?

The Chief reads that Merriam has another word for native on that same page, it is aboriginal. Your word for being the first or earliest of its kind present in a region. That is his people. Chief Fulla Bull went on to say that Merriam would call him aboriginal the first or original natives. You do not fit that meaning.

Someone suggesting Indians might believe Native Americans popped out of the dirt on Tower Hill brings a curious laugh from Chief Fulla Bull. He knows how people got here. It wasn't the stork that bought an influx of newcomers either . He said you have no words to explain the origins of his ancestors as it has been passed down for hundreds of generations.

He has heard crooked tongue tales that his people came from monkeys and of people called Adam and Eve but those are not Indian names or theories passed down from his ancestors. We wouldn’t understand the true meaning of the Chief’s words of explanation.

He did say that his people lived near the lake because the Great Spirit made it that way, like the mountains the sky the butterfly and all other things. Like the maize or corn. The Great Spirit made it all including the smiling waters that the newcomers combined to make Lake Winnipesaukee.

Chief shakes his head, says Ugh and talks about the real invaders. The ones we call natives. They took the land. Killed off all the bison, and made many changes. His people did not pollute and even limited smoke signals (not like the text messaging today). The Chief’s natives did not clear cut acres or whole forests. They enjoyed the peace and silence of the area and only made noise on special occasions. They were not afraid to canoe and on and on he went…

He even thought it odd that we have a special day to honor foolishness but not one to reflect on the way of his world before the invaders crossed the borders.

I believe that Chief Fulla Bull thinks his ancestors were the first real natives in this area.

[Joe Kerr]

Originally Posted by Mark

Chief Fulla Bull heard the words and questions from the crooked tongues. He said he looked over that Lady’s book (Merriam of Merriam-Webster – I didn’t bother to explain). You and her book call yourselves native. But you do not give all the meanings. BTW, he said he knows what Merriam means by inborn.

Number 10 on the same list of meanings is Native American: of, relating to or being a member of an aboriginal people of North or South America. His ancestors fit that definition of native too, how about you?

The Chief reads that Merriam has another word for native on that same page, it is aboriginal. Your word for being the first or earliest of its kind present in a region. That is his people. Chief Fulla Bull went on to say that Merriam would call him aboriginal the first or original natives. You do not fit that meaning.

Someone suggesting Indians might believe Native Americans popped out of the dirt on Tower Hill brings a curious laugh from Chief Fulla Bull. He knows how people got here. It wasn't the stork that bought an influx of newcomers either . He said you have no words to explain the origins of his ancestors as it has been passed down for hundreds of generations.

He has heard crooked tongue tales that his people came from monkeys and of people called Adam and Eve but those are not Indian names or theories passed down from his ancestors. We wouldn’t understand the true meaning of the Chief’s words of explanation.

He did say that his people lived near the lake because the Great Spirit made it that way, like the mountains the sky the butterfly and all other things. Like the maize or corn. The Great Spirit made it all including the smiling waters that the newcomers combined to make Lake Winnipesaukee.

Chief shakes his head, says Ugh and talks about the real invaders. The ones we call natives. They took the land. Killed off all the bison, and made many changes. His people did not pollute and even limited smoke signals (not like the text messaging today). The Chief’s natives did not clear cut acres or whole forests. They enjoyed the peace and silence of the area and only made noise on special occasions. They were not afraid to canoe and on and on he went…

He even thought it odd that we have a special day to honor foolishness but not one to reflect on the way of his world before the invaders crossed the borders.

I believe that Chief Fulla Bull thinks his ancestors were the first real natives in this area.

What is the Chief infering about "inborn" people of NH?

I thought aborigines were the topless people I'd see in National Geographic pictures. I never saw any NH native people in their magazines or on their TV specials.

I think the Chief has a good idea with a NATIVE AMERICAN holiday as long as it is on a Monday .

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Mark

I believe that Chief Fulla Bull thinks his ancestors were the first real natives in this area.

Excellent points, which makes me even more determined to not let outsiders do to me what my invading ancestors did to him. I mean, after we killed off all the bison, what was left?

[Weirs guy]

So I decided to give Marks post some thought after my last response and went for a walk. Along the way I met Chief Fulla Bull’s grandson, Learnfromthepast.

Even though I am a simple inborn with a crooked tongue, Learnfromthepast offered some insight into this thread. It turns out that me and his grandfather share parallel experiences in his eyes. We both moved to a place that we loved for its beauty. We lived there every day of our lives, in harmony with nature as much as we could (Learnfromthepast points out I have not done as good of a job as his grandfather did though) and enjoying our lives as best we can. But then one day strangers came from the south (Learnfromthepast did not have a word for the place they came from, but we do today) and found our home. We tried to welcome the strangers, to embrace our differences and learn from each other.

Some of the strangers welcomed this and lived and learned with us, but others of them did not. They thought we were “simple” people who needed the strangers ideas and beliefs to “save ourselves”. The strangers began to change our homes to met their needs. They tried to “educate us” to show that we could be better people if we tried to be more like the strangers. They wanted to help themselves to our land, our resources. They wanted to bring in their governments, their ideals. These strangers did not stop to realize that what had brought us and them to the same place would be changed by this, they simply continued relentlessly to instill their ways.

Learnfromthepast became very sad at this point. He said that my inborn crooked tongue could not understand the words for the sorrow his grandfather felt when he had to move his people far away from the strangers to save what was left of his peoples ways. Learnfromthepast never lived by the Smile of the Great Spirit, and therefore was sad he could never love it as his grandfather and I do.

Learnfromthepast then asked me if I would go quietly into the night as his people did, or would I Learn-from-the-past?

Now I ask you all, what type of stranger are you?

[Buffalo Jim]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Excellent points, which makes me even more determined to not let outsiders do to me what my invading ancestors did to him. I mean, after we killed off all the bison, what was left?

Hummm, I did not know we killed off all the bison? According to the National Bison Assoc. at the last census in 2002 there were 232,000 head living in the US. And there are many farms in Canada as well.


NH definitely has changed since I came to the state 20 some years ago. And I did leave for work a few times as well but I still always seem to come back to where I enjoy life the most. This time I left the corporate world to buy a NH based business and sell that bison meat that we supposedly killed off many years ago. I may not have the paycheck I had in NYC or Mass but I have much more enjoyment from my work now. And I get to wake up and look out over Alton Bay each morning....

Jim
Healthy Buffalo
Chichester NH

[SAMIAM]

Weirs guy....that was awesome.Well said

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Welcome Buffalo Jim,
Glad you took Rattlesnake Gal's advice to check out the forum. Happy to report everyone really enjoyed the buffalo burgers she picked up at your place on the way up to the lake.

[pmj]

HI Buffalo Jim,
We are taking a trip this summer to yellowstone, where there is still plenty of Bison. In fact, we've been meaning to stop by your place and pick up some bison to try. I understand it is offered on restaurant menus galore out west.
What does Bison meat taste like? I understand it is leaner than other beef.

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Weirs guy....that was awesome.Well said

WG... Right on point as usual. But.. I disagree.. ( What a great country!)

What kind am I?.. Great question ! ( but you may not like some of the answer!)

So. to keep this going.. I'm going to stray off point.

I'm a non native, transplant, (Department of Redundancy Department) Lefty Democrat.. (whew.. Hi, My name is SteveA and I like Obama and Jeanne Shaheen )

The motto "Live Free or Die" is a shorter version of the original toast from NH greatest hero John Stark. If you research his personal history.. he, and his NH vounteers saved the day at Bunker (Breeds) Hill.

"The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark on July 31, 1809. Poor health forced Stark, New Hampshire's most famous soldier of the American Revolutionary War, to decline an invitation to an anniversary reunion of the Battle of Bennington and to send his toast by letter:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils. "

Sadly, this great man's comments has turned into some sort of "Tax Thing" . or "Life Style Thing". Sad that so many people have no idea of all of what he really said and most likely meant. (My guess is that the Whole phrase wouldn't all fit on the license plate! I'm afraid that this great man's words have been highjacked. The NH of the 1950's was decidedly "right of center" , and that's when the motto was adopted.

He certainly didn't mean political intolerance. He fought to create freedom of political belief. I bet he would be horrified by the use of a snipet of his toast to be translated into any sort of political agenda.. left or right.

I see "Live Free or Die" misused all over the place on the forum.. from speed limits to property taxes. Sad.

Check out our biggest hero John Stark.. we all need to be careful when we invoke his words. (Remember.. it was POLITICIANS..that used his words.. and we all know how reliable they are.. )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stark

So, am I a native? NO. Am I in the minority YES .. in central NH.
But, much to the dismay of many "natives" a more "left" influence is starting to show up here in the Lakes Region.

And.. YES.. WG It's almost BIKE WEEK... and you still owe me a beer!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by SteveA

WG... Right on point as usual. But.. I disagree.. ( What a great country!)

What kind am I?.. Great question ! ( but you may not like some of the answer!)

So. to keep this going.. I'm going to stray off point.

I'm a non native, transplant, (Department of Redundancy Department) Lefty Democrat.. (whew.. Hi, My name is SteveA and I like Obama and Jeanne Shaheen )

The motto "Live Free or Die" is a shorter version of the original toast from NH greatest hero John Stark. If you research his personal history.. he, and his NH vounteers saved the day at Bunker (Breeds) Hill.

"The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark on July 31, 1809. Poor health forced Stark, New Hampshire's most famous soldier of the American Revolutionary War, to decline an invitation to an anniversary reunion of the Battle of Bennington and to send his toast by letter:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils. "

Sadly, this great mans comments has turned into some sort of "Tax Thing" . or "Life Style Thing". Sad that so many people have no idea of all of what he really said and most likely meant. (My guess is that the Whole phrae wouldn't all fit on the license plate! I'm afraid that this great man's words have been highjacked. The NH of the 1950's was decidedly "right of center" , and that's when the motto was adopted.

He certainly didn't mean political intolerance. He fought to create freedom of political belief. I bet he would be horrified by the use of a snipet of his toast to be translated into any sort of political agenda.. left or right.

I see "Live Free or Die" misused all over the place on the forum.. from speed limits to property taxes. Sad.

Check out our biggest hero John Stark.. we all need to be careful when we invoke his words. (Remember.. it was POLITICIANS..that used his words.. and we all know how reliable they are.. )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stark

So, am I a native? NO. Am I in the minority YES .. in central NH.
But, much to the dismay of many "natives" a more "left" influence is starting to show up here in the Lakes Region.

And.. YES.. WG It's almost BIKE WEEK... and you still owe me a beer!

Steve,

I'm afraid you have totally missed the point. Please read WG's post again.

ITD


WG

Very nice job.....

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by ITD

Steve,

I'm afraid you have totally missed the point. Please read WG's post again.

ITD


WG

Very nice job.....

ITD... you are correct.. I missed the point... I'll repeat the comment I made.
"WG... Right on point as usual"

I'll ask all of the rest to see my additional comments as "stand alone", not related to WG.

As a "transplant" I still feel that some folks here in NH (Natives) won't except the fact that this state is drawing in all sorts of folks.

Most I know are very willing to gladly adopt the traditional NH "way". As I stated.. so am I. But.. change is coming to NH. Some organic, some from the outside.

The old saying goes something like this..

"To keep doing the same thing the same way and expect different results is a perfect description of insanity"

Regardless of anyones political leanings.. to live with a false ( or misunderstood) idea of what John Stark meant by the paraphased "Live Free or Die" is to continue to keep doing the same thing in the same way.

That was my point.. poorly stated.

I did give a Highjack warning!

The last thing I would do is start a new "speed limit" type debate. It's just my opinion, and the opinion of many other "transplants" that sorta feel like outsiders.. even when we "mostly" agree with the NH way.

If "natives" take that as a problem.. then maybe the problem belongs to them. No disrespect intended. (maybe a vote to close the border would be in order.. Just kidding.. all nasty responses to this part of my message will be ignored! )

fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

[HUH]

I was born in MA.. Spent every summer and weekend I could in Gilford until finaly moving here permanently 10 years ago.
Let me reassure any true Native that I do not bring any Liberal leanings or ideas with me. In fact I am a super conservative.
Why anyone would think bigger govt. more laws and higher taxes could be the answer is beyond me.
Im sickened by the recent political decisions. NH is realy going the way of Taxachussettes.
A 45 mph speed limit ? How truely pathetic
A $1000 dollar fine for taking a wizz as 50 of my neighbors let there dogs relieve themselves on my Hostas?
Stop the insanity!!

[Mink Islander]

A thoughtful comment and some interesting history.