Boat Sinking?????

[Grant]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Secondcurve...
I might be wrong, but I believe they attach huge airbags to the boat, that somehow instantly inflate underwater, and they actually float the boat to the surface. Someone at Paugus Bay Marina told me that is how some construction equipment was recovered from the bottom a few years back.
Rattlesnake Gal...some photos of this process would be great if you have the time. Maybe????

Lift bag or bags, attached to the boat by divers, then inflated from a cylinder. Once on the surface, it can be towed to shallow water and fully raised. Given the size of the boat and the depth, I'd imagine it would require a large bag and a few divers. The visibility at that depth in Winnipesaukee is minimal and the temp is always in the 40s.

Here's a good page that describes their use.

And here's a photo a multiple large bags being used to bring up a freight train car.



I've only used a small one (~50 pounds of lift) to help bring comparatively small items to the surface. I stopped into Dive Winnipesaukee in February a few years ago, and Tom had a bunch of big ones out on the floor drying. He had spent the day working to raise a pickup truck with a plow that had gone through the ice in Tuftonboro (I believe there were photos on this site). The problem with that recovery was the thin ice surrounding the hole.

Now there's a tough day's work.

I'd love to watch them raise a 24-foot boat, and would be interested to know how much air to add at 100+ feet (as the air expands during ascent).

[sa meredith]

Grant...great stuff..thanks.
If somehow this "floating" does not take place until Friday, I'd love to cruise over and watch. If anyone knows when it is going to happen, PLEASE respond.

[Captain Zipper]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

This will go onto my short list of funniest post.

Rattlesnake Guy,

There is no greater feeling than to know that my feeble attempts at humor are appreciated.

CZ

Not to knock Divers time spent searching but a thought came to me...............doesn't whomever raises the boat than have salvage rights? And in the end make $$$$$? Not that I'm knocking that nor am I saying for a person to invest all that time he shouldn't be rewarded. None of us can make a living working for free. But I'm just stating a fact.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Captain Zipper

Rattlesnake Guy,

There is no greater feeling than to know that my feeble attempts at humor are appreciated.

CZ

Not to knock Divers time spent searching but a thought came to me...............doesn't whomever raises the boat than have salvage rights? And in the end make $$$$$? Not that I'm knocking that nor am I saying for a person to invest all that time he shouldn't be rewarded. None of us can make a living working for free. But I'm just stating a fact.

They would in the ocean, even if they only kept the boat from sinking (salvage rights does not necessarily mean the salvor gets the boat, but it can mean they are entitled to a substantial percentage of the boat's value). Not sure how maritime salvage laws apply to inland lakes though.

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Since we are now discussing PFDs, how many of you have a line attached to your throwable? It's not a requirement, but it sure can come in handy if the first toss is off target or if you need to pull the victim toward the boat after they have a grip on the throwable. Mine's got a line on it, and we have a special throw line at hand as well.

I always have the throwable ondeck w/ a line attached...along with the right number and sizes of jackets. I added a very small set of weights to the throwable to increase the "toss" distance.

Do I get a "Gold Star"

PS... it makes it easier to toss a line to a boat that needs a tow without having to get too close in rough water.

[tis]

I would love to watch it be raised too.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Gal and I hung out until about 4:30 today and despite a perfect day, nothing happened at the site. Hope someone can catch it.

[Captain Zipper]

I have an item I bought called a "throw bag". It is a bag with the line stuffed in it. You hold the end of the line that sticks out of the bag and throw the bag.....the line automatically comes out. The bag has floatation built into one end.

Rescuers on shore use them during kayak events along rivers. One fits easily onboard, it's about the diameter of a bottle of wine and a tad shorter.

They work great.

CZ

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Captain Zipper

I have an item I bought called a "throw bag". It is a bag with the line stuffed in it. You hold the end of the line that sticks out of the bag and throw the bag.....the line automatically comes out. The bag has floatation built into one end.

Rescuers on shore use them during kayak events along rivers. One fits easily onboard, it's about the diameter of a bottle of wine and a tad shorter.

They work great.

CZ

Gold stars all around!

That's the same thing I have.

[CanisLupusArctos]

Originally Posted by Dave R

They would in the ocean, even if they only kept the boat from sinking (salvage rights does not necessarily mean the salvor gets the boat, but it can mean they are entitled to a substantial percentage of the boat's value). Not sure how maritime salvage laws apply to inland lakes though.

Lake Winnipesaukee is covered by NH state law. I think they have all of them online, searchable on the state's official web site.

[Island Girl]

SeaTow is out there now... pictures later....

IG

[sa meredith]

Thanks for the update Island Girl. Keep us posted if you can. To be honest, I'm hoping the actual "floating" does not take place until tomorrow, when I can cruise over and watch. I don't get up to Meredith until Thursday night.
Any info as the day moves along would be great.

[Kamper]

My amateur understanding is...

Federal Maritime law applies on any navigable body of water so salvage could be claimed here. A salvage claim is limited by the value of the vessel and property recoverred. Claims are usually made against the vessel similiar to an "artificial person" like a corporation. I believe there are exceptions to this for things like environmental claims.

Since this effort is likley to cost more than the value of the boat, they are probably going to pursue this under state laws so they can file a claim directly against the owner and insurance. State liability law mostly considers a boat just another vehicle.

I dont know if it's possible to file split cases in both jurisdictions but I expect that's frowned on and would probably be confusing in both cases. The owner and/or the insurance carrier could roll up all their expenses and losses if/when they pursue to manufacturer and that could also be in either court.

And that's most of what I think I know about that.

[Island Girl]

Just sittin' out here ... there is about 160' of water under me and my laptop is getting low on battery.. Environmental services arrived about 15 minutes ago. I have been chatting with Marine Patrol. The original plan was to have it up by noon... Since they are all just sitting around talking... I am not sure what will happen.. There is at least one diver down.. he came up for a while, then went back down.

I will try to keep you posted... just losing battery... and did not bring the AC-DC converter.

IG

[sa meredith]

I'm hoping that in addition to your laptop you also have with you a camara...
Too bad about losing power...a play by play would have neat.
Sorry I missed this event by one day.

[Island Girl]

My laptop survived.. only one battery was going down... I am back at the ranch charging, getting lunch, and will try to upload some picture.. that could take a bit... not really much to see. The larger of the two SeaTow boats has left the scene... on board is a diver in a dry suit... I did not see him come up... so don't know if he had been down there... definitely going to be a while... They said that there would be no more dives for an hour... (about half an hour ago).

Update: 1:43 PM... the SEaTow boat is back and are working again. Here is a picture taken this morning.

[SIKSUKR]

Thanks for the updates IG.It looks like those might be the float bags on the bow of the boat.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

My laptop survived.. only one battery was going down... I am back at the ranch charging, getting lunch, and will try to upload some picture.. that could take a bit... not really much to see. The larger of the two SeaTow boats has left the scene... on board is a diver in a dry suit... I did not see him come up... so don't know if he had been down there... definitely going to be a while... They said that there would be no more dives for an hour... (about half an hour ago).

Update: 1:43 PM... the SEaTow boat is back and are working again. Here is a picture taken this morning.

Wow that water is so calm for that side of rattlesnake, that settles it I am up there tomorrow! Hold on Winni I am coming!!!

[sa meredith]

Am I right to say this activity is taking place on the North East side of the island, toward the eastern most part of the island?
Islandgirl...GREAT JOB! What a day to out on the water. And being up at Rattlesnake in the middle of the work week....life must be good.
I'll be out that way in the AM. Probably my last boat trip of the year.
Thanks for all the updates...

[Lake Boater]

Maybe they can grab my last pair of sunglasses while they are down there.......

[Island Girl]

They are getting ready to dive again... looks like he will be taking the inflatables with him this time. We are on the SW ... oops.. I stand corrected... SE side of the island facing the broads.

IG

[LIforrelaxin]

IG thanks for taking the time to keep us all updated today. It is certainly a beautiful one up there. Looking forward to seeing some more pictures and reading your incrediable reports......

[sa meredith]

Islandgirl.....
I guess today would have to considered your "15 minutes of fame". You could type just about anything right now, and everyone will consider your words "gospel".
Enjoy the moment....

[Island Girl]

Two divers went down several minutes ago... they are going to tie the floaters onto the boat to raise it. Here is a picture of of of the divers going in... and another of the Winnipesaukee Belle.

Around noon she came out ... got really close with the usual screaming passengers shouting.. " what are ya doin"? I thought it was a bit tacky myself.

IG

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Island Girl

They are getting ready to dive again... looks like he will be taking the inflatables with him this time. We are on the SW side of the island facing the broads.

IG

Did the finger stray a key?

Me thinks the W should be an E.

Just the same, appreciative your time, effort, and energy to keep the Forum up-to-date on the proceedings.

Google Maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&...5874&z=13&om=0

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&...&t=k&z=13&om=0

[Island Girl]

It is 3:30 and the Cobalt is not up yet.. earlier today DES showed up. They told me they hope they have nothing to do.. they are here to make sure the gas tank is intact. It is hot out here... just a lovely summer-like day. I brought extra power so my laptop will survive the wait.

[Island Girl]

One of the divers is up... I think they are pumping air down to inflate the bags to float the boat up.

IG

[sa meredith]

GWC...I agree. But when she replied, I thought I was wrong, and I felt foolish. You could not be on the west side and facing the broads. The broads side of the island would be north east...I think.
Islandgirl...we all owe you BIG for today. If perhaps one day you find your self over at the Upper Deck Sports Bar in Wolfeboro harbor, and I'm there, I'll be happy to grab your check. Look for the guy wearing a tan, sweat stained, Red Sox 2004 ALCS hat. (there are very few of them).

[Lake Boater]

Now when they bring this up will they put a pump in it to fully empty it so it can be towed in to be lifted out or will they pick it up with a barge . I assume they will pump it because it is cheaper and quicker and I don`t see a barge there. Also if it is in 100+ feet what process do these divers go through this is so interesting. I am sorry it took a family to go through this terrible ordeal for us to show this much interest.

[Island Girl]

Float bags are back up... they are not inflating more to bring her up.

[Formula260SS]

I noticed in IG's photo they are raising the boat in front of our place, the Cobalt traveled pretty far underwater as my wife and I watched it sink from our neighbor's deck, truly an unbelievable experience that made us think.

We assisted Dan with Seatow to put a location on where it went down, we are very sure on the location and it's quite a ways from where they seem to be raising it. No wonder it took them this long to find it, a needle in a haystack for sure.

IG how far offshore are they working? It went down approx 1/2 way between the Island and the entrance to Winter Harbor. We knew everyone had made it off OK as we watched the last person abandon ship, 2 boats assisting.

[Island Girl]

Then are directly in front of the middle hump on the island ... about a quarter mile out.

[Island Girl]

Sunset Bob and Just Sold are discussing the distance... they agree on 1/4 to 1/2 mile.

IG

[sa meredith]

Formula 260SS...WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN with this info? You watched it happen? Half way between Rattlesnake and Winter Harbor....if that is the case, and the boat was found where I saw a triangle of orange markers last Friday, it really did travel quite a bit. Let me ask you...how long did it take for the boat to disappear? Was it quick? Just curious (as is everyone else, I think.)

[Island Girl]

I left the scene about half an hour ago as they were towing the Cobalt away. She was still submerged under the flotation devices.. not sure where she was going... but it was very very slow.

The owners were there all day as was the marina that sold them the boat. It is sad that anyone has to go through this... and wonderful that no one was hurt.

The flotation devices popped up just after 4:30 pm.

IG

[Island Girl]

Here is a little video showing the flotation bags holding the Cobalt which is still under the surface of the water.

IG

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...=11880&cat=512

[tis]

Wow, IG, what a report! Thanks so much. After reading here that it was expected to come up around noon, I took a ride out there around 1:30. I talked to MP then and he said a couple of hours. But obviously it was longer than that. THe bigger yellow boat was just arriving back with the divers when I left. I am sorry I missed it but at least we had your report! What a wonderful day out there! Warm, calm! Who could ask for more? Felt like the middle of summer but with little traffic.

[sa meredith]

Island Girl...Giving up your whole day to keep us informed was very kind of you. I'm sure as people who are not able to read the thread all day come home from work and read all of your posts tonight, they too will appreciate it very much. Great work with the photos and video.
Tomorrow, if at 12 or so, you see a 24' Crownline bowrider, blue and white, cruising by the site on the way to Wolfeboro, give a blast of the horn, and I'll give you a wave! We all owe you one....

[Formula260SS]

I kept quiet with the info, I didn't think it was appropriate after the passenger posted. I guess now I will tell the story. Solid 3ft chop that day, we hung around the Island at our friends rather than boat due to the weather. After seeing 3 boats just kinda "hanging" out there I knew something was wrong, I figured a breakdown. After watching for maybe 3-5 mins we saw the last person bail off the boat, no indication to me the boat was sinking as it was way offshore. After the last person left the boat I went in for the binoculars, before I could get back out with them I heard my wife screaming it's gone, Stern down, Bow up, minuets later MP & the Fire dept arrived. Dan with Seatow came over later in the day to ask if we saw anything and to help with a location, he was back to us on Sunday and called later in the week as well. Kudos to the 2 boats who assisted, they were there the whole time we were watching and kept a potential disaster from happening, I had the impression the situation was under control as much as it could be given the circumstances, not sure it could have gone better from my view. From what I could tell it seemed to be an event that lasted some time, meaning the boat did not just sink all of a sudden, I'm sure the operator and his passengers would feel differently though. As everyone is we are very very glad that no one was hurt, we were shaken for the weekend, it's an event that makes you think. I will not speculate on why it went down I will only say again from my vantage point everyone reacted in a way that avoided disaster, my hats off to the captain, people on board and the boats who assisted.

[Captain Zipper]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

If perhaps one day you find your self over at the Upper Deck Sports Bar in Wolfeboro harbor, and I'm there, I'll be happy to grab your check. Look for the guy wearing a tan, sweat stained, Red Sox 2004 ALCS hat. (there are very few of them).

Do you realize how many people are now going to be approaching you in the Upper Deck claiming to be Island Girl?????????

Me for one, and I'm not even a girl.............been called a baby.......but never a girl.

Do they have food there?


Island Girl, great Job!!!

I'm glad that this part of the saga has come to a close and was a success.

CZ

[Phantom]

And THIS is why I find this Forum so great !!!

Kudo's IG
.
.
.

[Nauset]

Does anyone know where the boat was towed to? Was it raised out of the water yet?

[Just Sold]

I believe they were bringing the boat to either West Alton or Minge Cove. Minge cove could be a problem with the lake down 18" and lots of rocks.

I do not think they made it all the way in because the tow had to be very slow. Less than a normal headway speed without the boat in tow. So I would guess it will be taken in today. The MP and Cobalt along with the insurer will get the first look. Maybe someone will see it and get a photo. I am at work today so no hooky for me.

I posted some more photos but they are pending approval....something I have not experieced since joining this site a few years back. Oh well look for them soon.

[Dave M]

Just curious, didn't see and anchor lines from the SeaTow boats in any of the pictures. How do they not drift. Am I missing something.

Dave M

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Phantom

And THIS is why I find this Forum so great !!!

Kudo's IG
.
.
.

Amen to that! Thanks IG.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

I believe they were bringing the boat to either West Alton or Minge Cove. Minge cove could be a problem with the lake down 18" and lots of rocks.

Smalls Cove isn't any deeper; but it is home to WMC and their barges and cranes.

[Smitty1]

The Sea Tow boats had a rope tied to the sunken boat. I was out fishing yesterday and we stopped to chat with them on the way back.


Smitty1

Originally Posted by Dave M

Just curious, didn't see and anchor lines from the SeaTow boats in any of the pictures. How do they not drift. Am I missing something.

Dave M

[Airwaves]

Dave M wrote:

Just curious, didn't see and anchor lines from the SeaTow boats in any of the pictures. How do they not drift. Am I missing something.

Dave M

If you look at the picture IG posted #235 you can see the tow line going from the tow post on the aft of the SeaTow boat, past the twin outboards, into the water.

[Bos'n]

The boat was towed to the sand bar at the entrance to W.A.M. We then repositioned air bags and then pumped out. Marine Patrol then towed to headquarters for investigation. Would Like to thank everyone involved in this operation........ Sea Tow.

[Lake Boater]

Thanks for the info....... did anyone get any pictures of that process and or it being taken to MP headquarters???? and when are the results to be made public?

[sa meredith]

Captain Zipper...
I went to the Upper Deck yesterday, and you were right. I had to grab 7 checks........hahahaahha
Food is OK there...nice lunch...GREAT view. I recommend the third floor.
Anyway...took my final boat ride yesterday. And using the info posted here by the gentleman who witnessed the event (he stated it went down at roughly the mid point between Rattlesnake and entrance to Winter Harbor) I was curious about how far the boat cruised under water. If indeed the three orange markers off Rattlesnake mark the recovery area, it is probably close to 3/4 of a mile. Makes sense now....how long it took to find.
Hopefully, someone "in the know" will soon post the cause of this tragic event.
And Boat Guy 64...perhaps at some point you can write the entire story of how things unfolded that day....if you are inclined to do so.

[Captain Zipper]

I wouldn't think that the results would have to be made public per se.

It seems to me that it is between the owner, the boat dealer and the insurance company.

Unless...............charges are brought against the operater.......I don't see that happening in this case.

I think it will become public by a he said/she said outcome.

Thoughts?

[wildwoodfam]

I hope we do learn what brought her down so quickly - may help prevent other mishaps in the future.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by wildwoodfam

I hope we do learn what brought her down so quickly - may help prevent other mishaps in the future.

I dropped my boat off today for its winter nap.

Anyhow, I asked the dealer what they thought happened and they are under the opinion that the boat took a couple of very large waves over the stern. That would have put about 1,500 lbs in the bilge. If so, it would probably be enough to sink it quite quickly. Again, this is all speculative...hopefully we get a definitive answer after the investigation.

Jetskier

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Bos'n

The boat was towed to the sand bar at the entrance to W.A.M. We then repositioned air bags and then pumped out. Marine Patrol then towed to headquarters for investigation. Would Like to thank everyone involved in this operation........ Sea Tow.

Thankyou for the update of what went on after the raising.... AND Thankyou for your efforts.....

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Captain Zipper

I wouldn't think that the results would have to be made public per se.

It seems to me that it is between the owner, the boat dealer and the insurance company.

Unless...............charges are brought against the operater.......I don't see that happening in this case.

I think it will become public by a he said/she said outcome.

Thoughts?

I would think much like a car accident, that no there wouldn't be a press release.... But much like a police report for a car accident becomes public record after it is filed so would this...... Unless an investigation is on going police logs and reports become public record you just have to know where to go look for them...... At least that is my understanding......

Skip am I wrong in this belief?

[Sunset Bob]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

I believe they were bringing the boat to either West Alton or Minge Cove. Minge cove could be a problem with the lake down 18" and lots of rocks.

I do not think they made it all the way in because the tow had to be very slow. Less than a normal headway speed without the boat in tow. So I would guess it will be taken in today. The MP and Cobalt along with the insurer will get the first look. Maybe someone will see it and get a photo. I am at work today so no hooky for me.

I posted some more photos but they are pending approval....something I have not experieced since joining this site a few years back. Oh well look for them soon.

The boat was towed to the sand bar at West Alton to pump out.When I left at about 7:00 pm it was still under water.

[gtxrider]

I reason for the sinking yet?

[sa meredith]

I really thought we would know by now what caused this boat to go down. Perhaps there is a reason the info is not "being leaked". (Ins. issues, marina issues, etc.) I can't imagine a quick inspection would not reveal something that does not look right.
I'll say this...I don't believe any swell caused the initial problem, as I have knowledge that upon stopping the boat, water was pouring in, up from under the rear seat. I will not disclose where this info comes from, but be very sure...I would post it on such a very serious issue if I was not certain of it's accuracy.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

I really thought we would know by now what caused this boat to go down. Perhaps there is a reason the info is not "being leaked". (Ins. issues, marina issues, etc.) I can't imagine a quick inspection would not reveal something that does not look right.
I'll say this...I don't believe any swell caused the initial problem, as I have knowledge that upon stopping the boat, water was pouring in, up from under the rear seat. I will not disclose where this info comes from, but be very sure...I would post it on such a very serious issue if I was not certain of it's accuracy.

i find it unfathomable that a non-overloaded 24' Cobalt could be sunk by any swells on Winni...

[Gavia immer]

Unfathomable?

Looks like I'm sticking with my 20 foot boat. It has floatation. Not that being swamped and having the deck the same level as the lake is any hoot. Would navigation lights stay on if swamped at night?

[Airwaves]

S A Meredith wrote:

I really thought we would know by now what caused this boat to go down. Perhaps there is a reason the info is not "being leaked". (Ins. issues, marina issues, etc.) I can't imagine a quick inspection would not reveal something that does not look right.

I doubt that we will ever know for certain unless criminal charges are filed.

I have an acquaintance who purchased a new vehicle and within hours there was a malfunction that caused an accident. Fortunately, as in this case with the Cobalt, no one was injured. However, in the insurance settlement with the dealer, vehicle mfg and vehicle owner, there was a clause prohibiting any party from revealing the cause of the accident or the payout!

So unless NH brings charges against some one then we will probably never know for certain.

[kchace]

Originally Posted by TomC

i find it unfathomable that a non-overloaded 24' Cobalt could be sunk by any swells on Winni...

Most boats can be swamped, its all a matter of degree to what is required. Bowriders are the most susceptible to taking on a wave of water and I personally know of folks who have taken serious water into their bowrider on Winnipesaukee.

During a rough water situation, if a boat takes on a wave - whatever the cause - it immediately becomes MUCH more susceptible to taking on another. Once the second wave comes in, its very likely the end result will be the boat going under (at least to the point where flotation - if any - will stop it) unless the boat can somehow be removed from the situation immediately. Considering that a new wave will come every 7-20 seconds, ordinary bilge pumps(even high capacity ones) and deck scuppers would take far too long to clear the possibly hundreds of gallons each wave can dump into the boat. Plus, the water in the boat will move all around. If it runs to a low corner, it may not take that much at all to start the boat rapidly taking on water at that low spot.

Ken

[JayDV]

Assuming the craft had all the plugs in place and the lake was in really rough conditions (5 ft waves?) I would like to relay an experience that taught me a lot.

I had taken my friend and his father for a ride on Long Island Sound off of Darien, Ct. Seas were about 18 inches and the family 17' Glaspar was cruising about 35 mph. I had just filled the bow tank with 20 gallons of gas so we were set for a lot of fun and sun. We had come out of a cove checking out the fancy craft from Long Island that would "sleep over" the weekends and we saw this beautiful 56 ft Hatteras cruiser doing about 18 mph. At that speed the wake had just about a 5' trough to crest depth and here comes me a crazy teenager. I don't remember if we had a written 150 ft rue down here, but I was a lot less than that when I crossed the wake. The spray as we knifed through was incredible, the rise and crash even though at a 45degree angle was thrilling. As we landed in the "calm" behind the cruiser, all our faces showed it was just like a roller coaster ride. Cutting straight across (and relaying this is taking much longer than the event) we were rising (with the wake now) on the first crest when I realized several points that quickly had a bearing on how to react and what I did.

1. Having knifed through the wake at 45 degrees coming in, continuing straight put me in direct "with the waves" attitude.
2. Still doing about 35mph
3. Glaspar craft were on plane at speed and the bow now had 20 gals extra weight.

We rode the first little stern wave down then up, up, up and I figured I didn't want to slam down the other side so I quickly slowed down so now I'm sliding down aiming right at a wall of water. I didn't want to do a hull plant and flip so I opened her up again and sumarined through the wave. The water came over the bow, smacked the widshield and sailed over our heads as we came out the other side. Some water got in the boat, most landed in the outboard well and we hardly got wet. (In fairness to the cruiser captain, he did make sure we were safe)

My point being yes any boat can be swamped but assuming the equipment is sound, it more than likely will not swamp if some simple rules are applied. But most important act and react but do not panic! At least I have followed these rules and never had another close call like that one.

In high seas weather;

Travelling against the wind, speed should be at your comfort speed but no less than slightly more than headway and attack the approaching waves at a slight angle. Tacking port/starboard in order to continue in your intended direction.

Travelling with the wind, slightly faster than the waves and travel straight with the waves.

Other lessons I learned;

1. Don't stop in open water, but if you have to, point bow into waves (hopefully passengers are behind windshield in this scenario)

2. Don't back up into the waves for any reason! If you have to go back, get your bearings and start the slow turn and come back.

3. At least once in a while a friend's Dad will not tell your Dad (shhh he still doesn't know)

4. If you have clean undies on like Mom taught you, there are times they may not stay that way, so it is good there be cascading water nearby.

I do ramble on don't I?

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by kchace

Most boats can be swamped

One exception is pontoons..

All my 'passengers' get is a good "foot bath' as the water runs from bow to stern!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Ok,
Lets say I am in my 21 foot deck boat and heading into 3 footers. Someone stands up and I kill the throttle at the wrong time and take a big one over the bow. I take on 800 pounds of water.

I am assuming I am better off if the door between the front and back is open.

What do I do to avoid the next wave that is only seconds away and likely to be much worse since my front is now down a foot? There is a strong risk that I won't be able to lift the front with the engine.

Should I focus on getting my passengers into life vest or is their a maneuver that can reverse the situation?

[JayDV]

The first thing would be to accelerate a little in order to get positive forward direction. You need to gain control of the craft and situation. You may take another hit, but it won't be as bad as the first and you will gain on it by the next wave. Angle into the waves because any sudden turns may cause all that water to shift suddenly and upset any control you may have gained.

Move your passengers to the middle and rear of the craft to keep the weight towards the back in an attempt to keep the water aft and allow your bow to rise with the waves. All the while having everyone remain low and of course don pfd's. Explain to all the seriousness of the situation and the importance of following skipper's directions.

Head towards a protected area and calmer waters for safety. Determine if there is any bailing procedure that can be done while travelling. Calculate the need to call for assistance, radio, cell phone repeated horn blasts. And by all means, assign tasks to your passengers. It will give them something positive to do in everyone's effort and will allow you to fully concentrate of the navigation needs.

[ApS]

A nicely thought-out self rescue, JayDV. A few additional considerations:

1) Intentionally ground the boat on shore. (If your boat has no flotation).

During the day, head to a beach, a highway, where a docked boat has the cover removed, or where a flag is being flown. McMansions often have caretakers about during the day. If at night, head for a dwelling where there are some indications of year-round occupancy.

2) To bail, you need something to bail with.

An offshore cruising sailor-friend fashioned a big bailer for me by cutting the bottom out of a used big Tide detergent jug. It's pretty rugged, and will restore to a usable shape even when crushed by storage on board. (Because it floats, it can unexpectedly present itself inside the boat—and it's a bright orange color).

The bailing technique he used was to "scoop and throw", using both hands on the bailer and to use a rapid, continuous motion.

3) I'd keep the battery in a plastic battery box—with a strapped-on cover.

Maintaining a bubble of air over the terminals will prolong its useful life for lighting—especially now that the days are shorter and there are fewer opportunities for rescue by other boaters.

4) A boat with a lot of water in it is very hard to keep control of.

Every motion by passengers (inside) or waves (outside) is multiplied several times. Keep your passengers centered and braced against extreme movements.

5) Don't expect to use the built-in drain plug for bailing. Most require a higher boat speed than you'd want to maintain in severe weather.

[Cobalt 25]

In 3 short paragraphs Jay has given what I consider to be very good advice.

Peter

[Coolbreeze]

Jays post as the others is correct and useful info. I will add that any person or pet in the boat that is in waters that are "hazzardous" should already be in a pfd. "Hazzardous" can mean many things. Taking the time to put one on in an emergency may be too late and cause panic. In my opinion, panic is what causes a somewhat smaller problem to become a bigger life threatening problem. A responsible operator should already be thinking in their mind of a plan of action if things go sour.
The bottom line of everything in the related posts in this forum of the boat sinking, its recovery, right through this thread of how to manage a boat that has taken on water is keeping your people alive in a crisis. The operator of the cobalt that set these topics in motion should be commended for preventing a bad thing from becoming a fatality.Those who assisted them should be applauded for their involvement. They all did the right thing and nobody died. Boats can be recovered and replaced, quite frankly that is why we insure them isn't it? So wear those pfds, if they aren't fashionable, buy some that are.
On another note, how scarey would it have been to take on water at night! Yikes!! my arm hair just stood up thinking about it.

[jrc]

Mostly good advice so far. In a 21' foot open bow boat, everyone should wear there PFD's as soon as you see rough water. Also in those conditions, I would have the canvas on the bow section and nobody up there.

Being on Rattlesnake and IIRC the Broads side, you may have to take on some weather, that the rest of us can just avoid. Stay safe. If the weather turns sour while you're out there, there's no shame in waiting it out. In extreme cases call for help.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Thank you for all the good advice.
It is nice to have these things already in your mind for when you have little time to think.

We do see some pretty rough weather especially this time of year. The PFDs do go on when the wind goes up. We have turned back when it is not worth the risk. Since the downing of the Cobalt and the education this thread has provided on the additional risk we have with a deck boat, we leave the cover on the front more often and will both avoid the rough days more and wear the pfd's more often. I had not appreciated that I could get more than the carpet wet on such days. We even have a pfd for our small dog.

We will also now keep the mid boat door open on rough days to give the water a chance to move aft. There is a walk through seat aft that would let a lot of water out in such an emergency.

Lets keep the continuing education credits in boater safety going while we wait for what happened to the Cobalt so more of us can also enjoy a positive outcome if tragedy strikes.

Thanks again

[JayDV]

Share and Practice.

As we are doing here, sharing allows others to expand, improve and correct in order to have a mental plan in place. And it helps when it is a great topic!

The human mind tends to be fragile at times and emergency situations often break that mental focus. That means that practicing procedures and dry walk-thru's (like our good old school safety fire-drill runs - or for those who remember the air raid drills in school?). In this case just pretend the boat is full of water though.

My friend and I did have a harrowing situation back in '62 that taught me several of what I pointed out in my above solution. Our boat had taken on so much water that as we tried to bail some out we caused it to heel over so much the rest of the boat filled up. We weren't old enough then to know those 4 letter words that when yelled give you intelligence and strength so we just slid into the water. We were pretty lucky that day on many levels. We weren't too far from the island shore and our flotation seats were handy, but OMGosh! the boat!?!

Ok enough of the stage setting theatrics, it was a 16 ft canvas and wood canoe and they don't sink. What we did was turn it over and pushed it towards one of those mean ol underwater prop breakers, and raised it enough to clear the water and righted it sans water, hopped back in and continued home. But at 10 yrs old, it was serious for a few minutes.

Don't get me wrong here, I have done so many crazy things in my life and learned afterwards and in this arm-chair environment where I can pause, get a coffee and ponder more, it is easy to bring my boat back safely. Lessons like that is how I learned to think what-ifs like this and the self training to act as planned only comes from practice. Another one is brakes on ice. I can honestly say brakes ARE the last thing I apply on an icy road where a reaction is needed.

[sa meredith]

This thread is turning very educational.....love the "this is what happened, and this is what I did" format. Although I won't bore anyone with the details, I had a hair raising experience out in the broads on the way back from Wolfeboro last summer on a Sunday in mid/late August (it was the same weekend, that, on Saturday, two people went missing that tried to swim in the broads. One body recovered right away, the other months later, I believe.) Huge swells, I had stop for an instant, and quickly took two rollers right over the bow (24' bowrider), no bow cover on....actually two passengers in the bow....everything came out OK...inexperience is a terrible thing. Live and learn (and ask a whole bunch of questions). Anyway....
Someone...PLEASE...you must know something about the Cobalt. Does anyone have any follow up info?????

[Port Wedeln]

My understanding is the Cobalt was towed directly to the Marine Patrol in Gilford where is sat (or still sits)...any chance someone can confirm and perhaps snap a few pics?

[ApS]

This Winnipesaukee overturning, "in choppy water", supports the reason to keep passengers centered:

"...They decided to abandon the boat and it overturned shortly afterward..."
http://www.wbz1030.com/pages/827962....ntentId=814191

(Occurred August 19th, but I don't recall its having been posted here.)

[WKENDER]

Just wanted to drop a line as I was the passer by boater who rescued the family from the Cobalt. I have been waiting to get activation for my account as I am a newbie.

First and Foremost is that the Family of the Cobalt are safe and sound and no one was hurt and the outcome was not more severe.

My son and I were travelling along the shore of rattlesnake due to the severe conditions and the wind when I had noticed that there were 2 gentlemen bailing water from their boat. At that point my son and I had noticed another boat there trying to help but it was small so we proceeded over to see what we could do. Hats off to the owner of the Cobalt everyone had already had there PFD's on. Our first concern was to get everyone off the Cobalt and on to mine as quickly as possible, this was difficult as the children were very scared. It was so rough that I could not get close enough to get beside them so we threw them an anchor line and had them swim over to me. The owner was the last person to leave the sinking Cobalt and within minutes of him boarding my boat the Cobalt was gone. Within minutes Marine Patrol was on site and shortly after we transferred the family to their boat.

I received a nice letter from Marine Patrol thanking me for my efforts and I also received a very nice thank you card in the mail from the family of the Cobalt.

I would like to finish off by saying I am glad the circumstances turned out the way they did and I feel good knowing that I was able to help and hope there will be someone there if I need help, boats can be replaced family can't.

**I am just a s curious as the rest of you to find out what happened and I am sure we will all know as soon as it can be made public.

[boat_guy64]

WKENDR,

Thanks so much for coming to our aid that day. It was very reassuring to see your floating SeaRay next to our friend's boat. We talk about that day almost everyday and we all are very thankful that you were there that day.

We're all lucky to have people like you on the lake.


Boat_Guy64 and family.

[Silver Duck]

WKENDER

Well done! Thank you from the entire boating community!

Silver Duck

[Long Pine]

Thanks for posting WKENDER. Your post got me to thinking about what the proper procedure would be for recovering eight people from a sinking boat in rough waters. I would welcome input. As you mentioned, you couldn't pull alongside the boat and have people step from one boat to the other because of the intensity of the wind and waves. Once people are in the water and trying to climb in your boat, though, that can probably be tricky too both for the swimmer (boat getting blown and moving around violently) and for the captain (since you obviously have to disengage your prop which allows the wind and waves, which were enough to swamp the first boat, to have their way with your boat). Not sure what choice you would have though. I'm sure it was a hectic time, especially with children who must have been very scared. Congrats for keeping your cool and successfully recovering everyone without incident.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

WKENDER, you will always have a spot on our boat in an emergency.

When you were describing the scene of approaching the boat in the rough surf I was thinking the same thing. How the heck to get the people across. I am sure that having life vest on make the options a lot more favorable.

Nice job.

[LIforrelaxin]

I have never been one that has considered or thought to much about attaching a line to my throwable.... However after reading the last few post I believe that will be job one next year. I don't often venture out in real rough weather... however I have been caught once or twice.... but I now see the light, the wieght of the throwable will make the line more throwable.... and it will make it easier to recover someone if I ever need to throw, the throwable. This leads to a question however.... How long of a line to attach to one of my throwables?????

Wkender, as others have said well done.... I hope you or someone like you is around if I ever run into a problem....

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I have never been one that has considered or thought to much about attaching a line to my throwable.... ...

You can buy or make a "Throw-bag" easily enough. I keep a square throwable PFD near my helm and would probably tie one of my dock lines to it before tossing this to someone in the water.

I do have a "Throw-bag" but it's fairly light and needs practice to use accuratly, but it's a fun game to play with kids.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

This leads to a question however.... How long of a line to attach to one of my throwables?????....

LIforrelaxin -- although we do not have a line "attached" to a throwable -- we have a 50' line, neatly wrapped and easily accessible from our front walkway storage locker (bowrider). Although I admit it was placed there for easy access in needs such as towing -- I now have put a mental plan in place that it could easily & quickly be tied to a throwable PFD.

[wires1999]

Originally Posted by Diver1111

Garry Kozak forwarded this to me. Located 9-13-07.

Wow, is the bottom of the lake in that area or most areas like that? I suspected the bottom to be more "cluttered" with rocks, vegetation, etc.

[Lake Boater]

Does anyone have an update on the Cobalt? is it visible at the MP headquarters? I am going up for probably my final foiliage ride tomorrow and wanted to get a look.......

[sa meredith]

So the days go by, weather finally starting to change, my season has come to a close (until next May), and still no answers about the boat. Not that I (we) are untitled to answers, but I'm sure many, many people want to know how this happened. Or perhaps a settlement has been reached, and it came with a "gag order". Anyone??????????????????/

[Kamper]

It can take months or even years for an investigaton to be completed and the report released. Remember that airboat accident last fall? That just got released last month. The Cobalt incident will probably be published sooner since there were no fatalities and there is less liklely to be a need fro criminal review.

We'll just have to be patient.

[Lake Boater]

Been so long I guess we will never know now. Did anyone get any pics of it at Marine Patrol Headquarters? at least everyone involved is safe. Thanks to some quick thinking fellow boaters.

[Winnipesaukee]

I think the comment above yours pretty much sums it up.

Patience, Grasshopper.

[sa meredith]

So now the calendar reads December, winter is in full swing, first ski trip is this Friday, my thoguhts are already turning to the opening of camp on 5/23/08, and still I wonder...what happened??????????/
I would think any investigation would have now taken place, and any appeal or difference of opinion would have already been voiced. Someone, somewhere must have some inside information. Maybe they wish to share it????
Perhaps the friend of the owner who has already posted here could simply tell us if the insurance company has settled. Simple question. Have they settled?
I remain curious.
Anyway...
17 degrees outside, and hoping the day comes soon when I am cruising across the broads on a warm Friday afternoon, heading to Wolfeboro for drinks...

[wifi]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

..... heading to Wolfeboro for drinks...

Hopefully you have a designated Captain

[Aquadeziac]

in all probability it was handled as in this situation:

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...spx?NewsID=608

only the owner may have decided to take the offer and sign the nondisclosure release if he was offered enough to make it worth his while.


Either way looks like Cobalt isn't the only one producing fiberglass sinkers.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by wires1999

Wow, is the bottom of the lake in that area or most areas like that? I suspected the bottom to be more "cluttered" with rocks, vegetation, etc.

I thought the same thing.

It's been 20,000 years since the last glacier that could have affected the lake—melted—and dropped its load of soil, clay, sand, and boulders.

Since then, there has been a lot of wind-blown sand, silt, tree trunks, and other naturally-occurring litter left on the ice—not to mention man-made litter. I suspect what debris is visible above the bottom in the image is "recent", and the boat is sitting in a few inches of silt accumulated over tens of thousands of years. (Alternating natural forest fires/floods).

That said, there are certainly places of huge boulder fields, where the glaciers pushed or dropped them. New York's Long Island is said to be composed of New England glacial "bulldozings".

Lake bottom image from previous page:


There also may be pockets of salt water in the deeps from naturally-occurring chemicals plus road salt, making a totally different environment for salt-tolerant species within a freshwater lake!

Some deep lakes have itsy-bitsy crayfish species (one millimeter long) in their depths. 'Could be an interesting study for a college student.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

There also may be pockets of salt water in the deeps from naturally-occurring chemicals plus road salt, making a totally different environment for salt-tolerant species within a freshwater lake!

Wow, I did not know that. Any idea how the "pockets" maintain themselves and don't simply dissipate into the rest of the lake? Is it a pressure thing?

[fatlazyless]

And on the eighth day,
God created an aluminum boat,

Why aluminum?
Because aluminum rocks,

Plus, it makes nice lappy noises,
When the water laps up against it,

Plus, aluminum lasts, & lasts, & lasts,
Forever, & ever, & ever,

In the slightly acidic water,
of 75 billion gal Lake W,

You never heard of an aluminum boat,
that got all split apart,

And sunk to the bottom,
Because it's ALUMINUM!

..................................

Those two yellow Sea Tow rescue boats, plus the orange Tow Boat USA rescue boat, plus the three NH Marine Patrol 27' interceptors w/ dual 150 Mercs, plus the Marine Patrol Sea Ark buoy tender utility w/ dual 150 Mercs, plus the Coast Guard's orange & white, Falcon Jet- long distance search plane.....what are they all made of...............it's not phoney fiberglass.................it is the real-deal, A-L-U-M-I-N-U-M.

[Nauset]

TomC, I have deleted my message. Please accept my apologies for my sarcasm. My fingers where going faster than my brain.
Regards,
Nauset

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Wow, I did not know that. Any idea how the "pockets" maintain themselves and don't simply dissipate into the rest of the lake? Is it a pressure thing?

If there are any salt water pockets in Lake Winnipesaukee, they would maintain themselves by specific gravity—salt water being heavier.

A diver at Lake Wentworth's deepest point (~85 feet) wrote of a very thin "cloud layer" a few feet off the bottom, but didn't offer any explanation for it.

I suspect it was an interface between salt and fresh water, with the cloud being a mix of bacteria and fine "floating" detritus. Lake Winnipesaukee would have many more pockets where this condition could exist.

It's a big "if" anyway. A saltwater presence wouldn't assure alien life in the lake beyond a few simple lifeforms (like burrowing worms): there could be entire dead zones as well.

[SIKSUKR]

Interesting APS.I have never heard of salt water pockets in fresh water lakes before this thread.I need to learn more.Any links to websites to visit?

[Weirs guy]

Thanks APS, thats a pretty cool thing! Now I've gotta learn how to dive.