Boating Safety Certificate Question

[Islander]

I called the MP about this last week. They said if you have an out of state cert. with NSBLA on it you are good to go. You people that don't believe this should call the MP yourselves, they are very nice.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Islander

I called the MP about this last week. They said if you have an out of state cert. with NSBLA on it you are good to go. You people that don't believe this should call the MP yourselves, they are very nice.

Hmmm....perhaps this is the same source at NHMP that told you last year that "technically" R/C controlled boats needed to be registered in New Hampshire???

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Skip

Hmmm....perhaps this is the same source at NHMP that told you last year that "technically" R/C controlled boats needed to be registered in New Hampshire???

Skip - I think I made one post about that a couple of years ago. And the post was a joke. Get over it.

Have you called the MP yet to see if they agree with your theory?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Islander

Skip - I think I made one post about that a couple of years ago. And the post was a joke. Get over it.

Have you called the MP yet to see if they agree with your theory?

I have to say that in all honesty I am really disappointed in the direction you have taken in this discussion. Up until now, while I may respectfully disagree with a number of your positions, I had always believed that Lake safety was your priority belief and ultimate goal.

Unfortunately that belief has been greatly shaken when I recall this post you made in March of 2006 regarding the two opposing Speed Limits camps (WINNFABS vs. NHRBA) as the discussion in this particular thread had turned in to how to strengthen boater education:

Originally Posted by Islander

...The point about boater education is a good one... If both sides agree that boater education is key, then they should come together now and do something about it. A joint resolution or statement by WinnFABS and NHRBA would be a powerful message to legislators, the Marine Patrol and boat renters.

If BOTH sides can agree on how to tighten up boater education it would be very hard to ignore.

Hmmm....if both sides can agree on how to tighten up boater education it would be hard to ignore....

And yet only a year and a half after the Legislature listened and did tighten up boater education here you are trying to advise folks that it isn't hard to ignore!

I just have to ask....is it really Lake safety you are seeking or just more Lake controversy?

Because quite frankly we seem to have enough folks already interested in the latter, what we need is more folks fighting for the former.

[Islander]

Skip

You are losing me here! Are you confusing me with some other poster?

I have posted three times in this thread. The first two only said that I called the MP to ask what kind of out of state certificate was acceptable in NH. The last was to tell you to drop the R/C thing. How am I subverting boater education?

There seems to be confusion as to which certificates are allowed in NH. With all do respect to you, if the MP tells me a certificate is ok, then the subject is closed in my book. You are not the Marine Patrol.

I think proctored exams are a great idea. But I am not going to tell people a lie or hide the truth about certificates in the name of safety. If there is one thing more important than boater safety it is the truth.

If you don't like what the MP are telling people then take it up with them. If you are so concerned about safety then you should not be telling people to ignore what the Marine Patrol is saying!!!

[Skip]

...and no, I do not have you confused with anyone else.

Might I also close that I am no longer confused either; in my mind you have put all doubts to rest as to where you truly stand in the safety debate.

Thankyou!

[Silver Duck]

it's simply unacceptable that there is any confusion whatever remaining concerning which safety certificates are acceptable and which are not!

There can't be all that many programs that are NASBLA-certified. Might I suggest that somebody somebody who has some "pull" with the MP (since I'm a "flatlander", I doubt that they'd give a darn for anything I had to say) suggest that somebody within the department with the requisite knowledge simply print out a list of such programs, mark "yes" or "no" next to each, and post it on their site?

I suspect that such a list would be a great help to their own officers as well as to the boating public!

Silver Duck

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

it's simply unacceptable that there is any confusion whatever remaining concerning which safety certificates are acceptable and which are not!

There can't be all that many programs that are NASBLA-certified. Might I suggest that somebody somebody who has some "pull" with the MP (since I'm a "flatlander", I doubt that they'd give a darn for anything I had to say) suggest that somebody within the department with the requisite knowledge simply print out a list of such programs, mark "yes" or "no" next to each, and post it on their site?

I suspect that such a list would be a great help to their own officers as well as to the boating public!

Silver Duck

Post #19 covers it.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Post #19 covers it.

Thank you NightWing for reminding Bear Islander. You didn't mention where the material you printed came from, but it sure looks good to me.
If those words are correct it is right there in RED last line.

[Bear Islander]

Post 19 would be definitive if it came from the Marine Patrol webpage. But I think NightWing wrote that post himself.

Until I see proof I will go with what the Marine Patrol are saying when you ask them. And they are saying all out of state certificates from NASBLA are good.

If they are saying the wrong thing then someone needs to inform the people on the phones.

NightWing - Where did post 19 come from?

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Post 19 would be definitive if it came from the Marine Patrol webpage. But I think NightWing wrote that post himself.
Until I see proof I will go with what the Marine Patrol are saying when you ask them. And they are saying all out of state certificates from NASBLA are good.
If they are saying the wrong thing then someone needs to inform the people on the phones.
NightWing - Where did post 19 come from?

The part outline to me is just hear say third party as it via a phone call and only to you. You should be proofing that those words are in some type of a manual or law.
I agree NightWing should list his source of his words.

[NightWing]

You are all getting hung up on the NASBLA certification. That isn't in question, since it is a requirement and everyone agrees on that. The post was made to point out that ISSUED BY is the key phrase. In other words, "Approved by" does not meet the requirement, whereas "Issued by" does.

[Airwaves]

NightWing:

You still haven't said where you got the information regarding your post that only US Power Squadron boating certificates issued
AFTER 1978 are valid in NH?

I read the RSA and saw no mention of any date attached to the USPS or USCGAux boating certificates.

Did I miss it?

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by NightWing

You are all getting hung up on the NASBLA certification. That isn't in question, since it is a requirement and everyone agrees on that. The post was made to point out that ISSUED BY is the key phrase. In other words, "Approved by" does not meet the requirement, whereas "Issued by" does.

I am holding a Massachusetts certificate "Issued by" the "Massachusetts Environmental Police". It was received in the mail after passing a online Boat-Ed exam. The Massachusetts Environmental Police are the Marine Patrol in that state.

Where does post 19 come from?

[NightWing]

PART Saf-C 6104 BOATER SAFETY EDUCATION COMPETENCY

Saf-C 6104.01 Minimum Standards for Boating Safety Education Competency.

(a) A person required to possess a safe boater education certificate in order to operate a motorboat in New Hampshire shall meet the minimum standard for boating safety education competency, as set forth in RSA 270-D:13.

(b) The minimum standards for boater safety education competency shall be:

(1) Successful completion of a boating safety course in person and passing score of at least 70 percent on a written test administered at the conclusion of the course by the instructor or a proctor, pursuant to RSA 270-D:13, I(a);

(2) A score of 80 percent on a proctored equivalency examination, pursuant to RSA 270-D:13, I(b).

(3) A score of at least 70 percent on a home study course and self-test;

(4) A score of at least 70 percent on a self-test boating safety education course offered over the internet; or

(5) Possession of a certificate, card or other official document issued by:

a. Another state indicating successful completion of boating safety education that:

1. Meets or exceeds the requirements of a New Hampshire safe boater education certificate; and

2. Is NASBLA approved;

b. US Power Squadron; or

c. US Coast Guard Auxiliary.

Source. #7650, eff 2-20-02; amd by #7975, eff 10-20-03

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by NightWing

PART Saf-C 6104 BOATER SAFETY EDUCATION COMPETENCY

Saf-C 6104.01 Minimum Standards for Boating Safety Education Competency.

{sni - see message number 49 in this thread}

Source. #7650, eff 2-20-02; amd by #7975, eff 10-20-03

OK forum folks. Nightwing covered a lot of bases with message #49.

I spoke with Marine Patrol's Lieutenant Dunleavy and got down to the specifics. He said YES. A NASBLA approved test resulting in a Safe Boating Certificate issued by a STATE even though the test was not proctored and was given online by Boat-Ed.com was accepted in NH. He indicated that there was no way to know if the state issued certificate was via an online test or in person. I was quite surprised and I'm sure that Skip will be as well.

So, the State of Vermont issued certificate with the NASBLA logo taken over the internet meets the Safe Boating Education requirements of NH (in spite of it being a private organization). Boat-Ed.com also provides online testing for more than 40 other states. The BoatUS certificate, even though NASBLA approved, is not issued by a State and therefore not accepted in NH. So there you go.

More than once Marine Patrol has given me conflicting answers to some of my questions. Usually it is by dispatchers or summer hires I speak with.
Lt. Dunleavy on the other hand is a knowledgable and long time Marine Patrol Officer so I stand corrected.

I apologize if I caused anyone distress or inconvenience. Sincerely,

[Skip]

I stand corrected and profusely apologize to both Islander & Bear Islander. Like the Skipper I was awaiting word from Dunleavy which I received via e-mail late this afternoon.

I am up at Camp for the next two weeks and am still unpacking, but felt an apology was immediately in order, and I offer same. Obviously the information given to the Islanders was what the dispatchers were told to issue.

I do not agree with the policy. I think it it sends a horrible message and do n ot believe it is in the spirit of the law passed.

I will persist in getting this policy corrected or changed. I informed Dunleavy that I would start with the Governor's Office, the AG and will also personally contact the legislators responsible for crafting this legislation and inform them of the loophole that the NHMP is allowingto occur.

Much more to come....but being on vacation next week I have ample time to pursue this.

Again, my apologies to doubting what Islander & BI were told. I should have known better!

Bhy the way, when possible I will post the e-mailed policy so all of youcan have it to protect yourselves in the future!

Skip

[Bear Islander]

Apology accepted.

I wonder if reciprocity is one reason the MP have gone this way? It would be hard for NHMP to say that certificates issued by other states are no good.

States usually honor drivers licenses given by other states or even other countries. It would be some mess if they didn't.

I think the "meets or exceeds" phrase will follow overnight anchoring into MP limbo.

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

it's simply unacceptable that there is any confusion whatever remaining concerning which safety certificates are acceptable and which are not!

There can't be all that many programs that are NASBLA-certified. Might I suggest that somebody somebody who has some "pull" with the MP (since I'm a "flatlander", I doubt that they'd give a darn for anything I had to say) suggest that somebody within the department with the requisite knowledge simply print out a list of such programs, mark "yes" or "no" next to each, and post it on their site?

I suspect that such a list would be a great help to their own officers as well as to the boating public!

Silver Duck

The real problem here is that a few people have their own agenda. They don't think some out of state NASBLA certificates should be allowed in NH. The way they interpret the law only out of state certificates that involve a proctored exam are allowed.

The problem is the the Marine Patrol interprets the law such that ALL NASBLA certificates are good in NH.

Their real argument is with the Marine Patrol, however instead of fighting the MP's interpretation they come to this forum and brow beat anybody that doesn't go along with their theory.

When asked where their quotes come from they don't answer. Just like NightWing has done in the posts above.

I think they have called the MP and are aware of the truth, but they will not admit it here because they don't like it.

The funny thing is that I agree with them in principal. I think only proctored exams should be allowed anywhere. But that is not what the law says and not what the Marine Patrol says.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by Islander

I called the MP about this last week. They said if you have an out of state cert. with NSBLA on it you are good to go. You people that don't believe this should call the MP yourselves, they are very nice.

When you asked the question, did you state that you were referring to on-line certification not class room testing???