luxury tax for out-of-staters

[TomC]

non-residents don't get much in the way of services for property taxes paid...

how about a "luxury" tax for out-of-staters on top of it?

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/h...ctmen1212.html

[ITD]

"These are the suggested revenue sources in an education funding plan touted by Hampton state Rep. Nancy Stiles, a Republican, at Monday night's Board of Selectmen meeting."

RINO, no wonder the Republicans lost control up there. No mention of controlling expenses just increasing taxes. Funny thing though, they try to make it more palatable by saying that they are targeting out of state owners, large businesses and cigarrettes, but you watch, Joe Average will be the one to bear the brunt of this TAX INCREASE.

[NonVoting Taxpayer]

A luxury tax for out of state homeowners. There is a novel approach for the State of New Hampshire to solve a problem created by the State of New Hampshire. Who said anyone who ownes a second house in New Hampshire is rich.

When are these prople going to get it that when I come to New Hampshire on a temporary basis I don't use all the services year round. I don't put my kids in the school system, I don't use Police during the week (unless I'm on vacation), I don't wear down the roads. I don't create a weeks worth of trash to be disposed of, etc......

I do pay my tolls, I pay my registrations for my boats, I pay my registration for my snowmobiles, I pay my real estate taxes, I go to the store and support the local vendors and economy, etc. ...........

All this to pay for a school system that can't pay for it self and one most if not all out of state homeowners will never use. That's a court case I would like to see litigated.

I don't mind paying my property taxs to support the town I own my property in, but she must be kidding me with that novel approach to solving the states education problem.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by NonVoting Taxpayer

A luxury tax for out of state homeowners. There is a novel approach for the State of New Hampshire to solve a problem created by the State of New Hampshire. Who said anyone who ownes a second house in New Hampshire is rich.

When are these prople going to get it that when I come to New Hampshire on a temporary basis I don't use all the services year round. I don't put my kids in the school system, I don't use Police during the week (unless I'm on vacation), I don't wear down the roads. I don't create a weeks worth of trash to be disposed of, etc......

I do pay my tolls, I pay my registrations for my boats, I pay my registration for my snowmobiles, I pay my real estate taxes, I go to the store and support the local vendors and economy, etc. ...........

All this to pay for a school system that can't pay for it self and one most if not all out of state homeowners will never use. That's a court case I would like to see litigated.

I don't mind paying my property taxs to support the town I own my property in, but she must be kidding me with that novel approach to solving the states education problem.

I second all of this...I see the same old story in NH all the time, and in another Post I stated a solution....It is about time that NH (and many other states) Overhaul there acounting and funding systems. With the amount of property tax that out of state owners pay on real estate there should be no issues with funds, if things where being done in a responsible manor.

As for schools, why aren't there more Regional school districts?

For the Marine Patrol and Fish and Game, why are they only living off of fees collected?

Plain and simple, it is time that the citzens of NH, stand up and ask there legislature to do some work.... and look at things like a business insted of like a wasteful government.........

[Cal]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Plain and simple, it is time that the citzens of NH, stand up and ask there legislature to do some work.... and look at things like a business insted of like a wasteful government.........

Careful what you wish for . A politicians job is to make money to spend. When ever they mess with taxes they may lower one tax but be sure another one (or more) will go up and even more. Then they pat themselves on their back as say "We did a good job"
In Jersey , we have high property taxes too. We also have 7% sales tax , state income tax , gambling and Lottery all of which were to provide property tax relief...an they are higher than ever . There's other Jersey people on here who can varify this.

[joann721]

Just to add my 2 cents- We have a seasonal trailer site in a privatly owned camp ground in meredith. We were told that we are going to have to pay a tax to the town of meredith for "USE" of the land. Now the owners of the campground pay a tax on the land as property owners, but now seasonal residents, who are not land owners, are also going to have a pay a "USERS TAX"... come on .. if that isnt double dipping I dont know what is.. we also pay tolls, registrations, cable, electricity, & support local businesses and restaurants- but that isnt enough. Talk about driving people away from the area !!!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Cal

A politicians job is to make money to spend

Cal, I totally agree with you. And the statement I quote above is in deed one of the issues with the government these days. Insted of really trying to balance the books so to speak, everytime there is a short comming taxes go up. Case in point school funding...... People however forget that the USA was founded on the idea that "We The People" govern the country...and that the politicians are an extension of us.... My Point is this its time to tell the Politicians that they are off track, and that they need to get back on track........

[Grant]

They should really consider the other revenues that the out-of-staters bring to the state in the form of everything from fishing licenses, boat registration fees, patronage of myriad local businesses, patronage of the state liquor stores (big enough that they place them strategically in highway rest stops -- something that folks down here in Pennsylvania still don't believe!), gas taxes, highway tolls, etc.

I think we're already doing our share to support the state economy. Wanna tax something worthwhile? Institute a McMansion or BMF Boat tax.

Luxury tax. Ridiculous.

[SIKSUKR]

Understand one thing!NEVER in the history of the good ole USA,has implimenting another tax eliminated or offset another one.NEVER.The more you give em the more they spend.Understand this before you ask to be more like Taxachussetts.

[Grant]

Good point. For example, Philadelphia has an insane City Wage Tax, through which they collect 4+% of the earnings of everyone who either lives or works in the city. But this tax was originally put in place as a "temporary" measure -- many years ago. Today, it is one of the biggest dis-incentives for people to work in the city. No one wants to work there, and businesses almost ALWAYS opt for the suburban locations because of it. Move out of the city...get a 5% raise. Problem is, now most of the suburbs have their own wage taxes as well.

Let's have a tea party!

[rander7823]

Pay the Fee or Leave

[Grant]

Pay Fee or Flee

[fatlazyless]

Let me see here....in the past three years my 1/4acre Winnipesaukee lot, with 60' of waterfront and a 50 year old, 2x4" wood frame, two bed, cottage has had its' Meredith property taxes go from $2800. up to $10,000./year.

If, just for discussion purposes, my property tax was replaced with a 3.33% income tax, I would have to be making $300,000./year in order to get hit with the same $10,000. yearly tax bill! Unfortunately for me, I do not make 300k/year.

And our property tax system is what the NH Republicans say is 'The New Hampshire Advantage.' What's the advantage for me? Is it one for you?

[dpg]

Les - what could your "Cottage" sell for, $500,000 - $600,000 - maybe $700,000? Yes, $10,000 yearly is alot however how much money (in equity) have you made? Sell it, move off the water and bank a cool $300K!! Well, that's if your that disturbed by your tax bill. I pay $6,500 in Mass and the closest water to me is from the hose when I wash my car.

[Dave R]

You folks missed a comma. According to the article, she's not proposing a luxury tax for out of state home owners, she's proposing a luxury tax AND a tax for out of state homeowners. Not sure what constitutes a luxury, but if a boat does, it would affect me.

I think a special tax just for out of state homeowners is just awful but I doubt many people would leave solely because of it. Face it, NH is really nice place to have a second home. Some of you have had your property taxes triple and still have places in NH. What's another couple grand?

[Woodsy]

I would be very surprised if this proposal got anywhere... They are looking at a fee/tax for waterfront owners (along Dam controlled waterways this includes Winni) to replenish the dam fund. They are also looking at conservation decals for non-powered watercraft to help fund Fish & Game.

With a newbie Democratic legislature, all bets are off. I doubt we will see an income tax seriously considered. I bet a sales tax will get a good hard look but ultimately defeated.

I really don't understand the why education is soo hard to fund.... it should be pretty simple. Figure out the average cost of a basic education per student and multiply it by the number of students. If a local school board wants extras, let the towns figure out how to pay for it.

WinnFabs might get that speed limit you sooo want, but your probably not going to want all of the fees & taxes enacted as well! So much for the NH advantage....


Woodsy

[fatlazyless]

Let me see here, my cottage would probably qualify as a cottage by anyone's definition. It has one small bathroom, the water supply is directly out of the lake, and it is built on supports over a dirt crawl space with no concrete foundation. My girlfriend thinks the place is an unsanitary shack, or something, and will not stay there, but it is VERY nice and I like it a lot. What it does have is a totally terrific view of Horse-Dolly-Bear-Mark-Mink-Timber-Governors Islands and from Gunstock Mountain to the Alton hills and beyond. The Town of Meredith recently raised the assessed value from $401,000. to 801,000. in one year. I plan on owning it indefinately, until I can afford to tear it down and replace it with a 'real' small house. The lot is about 60'wf x 200', going up to the road.

Ten thousand dollars/year in Meredith property taxes!

Say it out loud:'What New Hampshire Advantage?"

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Let me see here, ..., but it is VERY nice and I like it a lot. What it does have is a totally terrific view of Horse-Dolly-Bear-Mark-Mink-Timber-Governors Islands and from Gunstock Mountain to the Alton hills and beyond. The Town of Meredith recently raised the assessed value from $401,000. to 801,000. in one year.
Say it out loud:'What New Hampshire Advantage?"

As you stated, "it is VERY nice and I like it a lot."

Also, try replacing the NH view you so much enjoy, in another state.

If that task is met with success, then move there.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ten thousand dollars/year in Meredith property taxes!

Say it out loud:'What New Hampshire Advantage?"

OK "What New Hampshire Advantage"
Here's one . My lot..60x150...land locked...no view...assessed @129K...fair market value +/- 250K and taxes $6000 a year. Do the math , I think your getting a better deal.
We're both getting it (if you know what I mean) but you could walk away with a WHOLE lot more than me and for anly a small amount more of taxes per year.

"The New Hampshire Advantage" because when the year ends and I've paid my state income tax and sales tax on literally EVERYTHING I pay $10,000 too.
SMILE , be happy , Mon

[ghfromaltonbay]

I also have a 47x100 foot lot with absolutely no view except a lot of other houses. Home assessed at $150K, market value $350K. My taxes are also about $6000. Add to that more than $1000 in state income tax (and I'm on a part-time work/retirees wages), 7% sales tax on almost everything, and the highest car insurance in the USA. My 3 year old chevy costs me $1200 per year for car insurance with high deductibles. I'd say NH has the better deal, too.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Let me see here, my cottage would probably qualify as a cottage by anyone's definition. It has one small bathroom, the water supply is directly out of the lake, and it is built on supports over a dirt crawl space with no concrete foundation. My girlfriend thinks the place is an unsanitary shack, or something, and will not stay there, but it is VERY nice and I like it a lot. What it does have is a totally terrific view of Horse-Dolly-Bear-Mark-Mink-Timber-Governors Islands and from Gunstock Mountain to the Alton hills and beyond. The Town of Meredith recently raised the assessed value from $401,000. to 801,000. in one year. I plan on owning it indefinately, until I can afford to tear it down and replace it with a 'real' small house. The lot is about 60'wf x 200', going up to the road.

Ten thousand dollars/year in Meredith property taxes!

Say it out loud:'What New Hampshire Advantage?"

Sounds as though you have not been "paying your fair share" as your Democrat buddies like to say. I think you should immediately send the town of Meredith the balance of the taxes you should have been paying for the past few years. I think you've been living the "New Hampshire Advantage" and I've been making up for it in my taxes.

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by Cal

Careful what you wish for . A politicians job is to make money to spend. When ever they mess with taxes they may lower one tax but be sure another one (or more) will go up and even more. Then they pat themselves on their back as say "We did a good job"
In Jersey , we have high property taxes too. We also have 7% sales tax , state income tax , gambling and Lottery all of which were to provide property tax relief...an they are higher than ever . There's other Jersey people on here who can varify this.

We here in the Garden State have the highest property taxes.

My view is the nieghbors back door, worth every penny! We do have quite a few refineries and the wonderful odors along the Turnpike so that our gas prices are lower (NOT).

Why can't government be like business? Every year they pay smaller part of the benefits and the company I work for has even screwed us with our pensions. Try that with a civil service worker and see what happens.

[nj2nh]

NJ actually has the highest taxes in the country. Lucky me. I live in a modest home and my taxes are $13,000. We were fortunate to be able to purchase the office building where we work in our town and were just revaluated. Our building is now worth, according to the town, twice what it was just two years ago so the taxes there, already at 18,000, will probably almost double. I can't raise the rents on the tenants too much or they will move out like many of the other businesses in our downtown. Time to sell and move to Canada - or NH! At least, then, I will get the benefit of the property taxes I pay.

Jersey Girl

[Lakegeezer]

Should NH be like NJ? The tax situation in NH has been unique. The state government is starved for money and most of the spending occurs at the local level. Those that use local services are the same ones that pay for them through property taxes. NH is not a welfare state, yet. Property tax drives people's decisions about where to live. Communities that choose to provide expensive services will have higher property tax rates. Those who don't provide a lot of services will have lower property tax rates. People are free to choose where to live and what level of services they wish to have available. The NH advantage works because, for the most part, service levels are moderated rather than out of control, and overhead is low. The entitlements to retired state workers is changing the equation. The state needs tax money to pay for services already rendered, not just those that are ongoing. Property tax is not a good way to fund a central government, because local control and accountability is lost, and overhead costs build. A hungry government can more easily be fed by taxing income workers which have liquid assets than tax those that are only wealthy with property assets.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

I am willing to offer an even trade, my 3 bedroom split with 1.5 bathrooms and garage for FLL's little cottage. He can have my $3,000 tax bill and I will take his $10,000 tax bill. He can also have the $3,000 income tax bill and throw in a thousand for sales tax. Oh yes.... if he buys a small inexpensive car add another $1,500 sales tax for that. It is only a couple of mile drive to the water where there is a nice view. I even have town water... which I pay for... How about it FLL?

[fatlazyless]

On October 20, 2005, Senator Judd Gregg won $853,492.00 in the Powerball Lottery. Gregg, the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, hit on five out of six numbers when he bought four different five-dollar quik-pik Powerball tickets at a Washington DC gas station.

How much did the State of New Hampshire receive from Senator Gregg's winnings? It received ZERO......absolutely nothing.....not-one-penny! If New Hampshire had a 3.33% income tax, the state would have received $28,421.28, as its' share of Senator Gregg's winnings.

Instead, New Hampshire has this property tax system that is taking money from people who don't have it, and not taking money from people who do!

[TomC]

as usual for these tax threads, it went off the track with the NH folks talking about the low overall tax burden, comparing taxes to New Jersey, etc..

What is the feeling of even the concept of a "punitive" tax being levied on out-of-staters, who pay property taxes with low/no usage of services, over and above what residents would pay? Obviously they can't even vote on this..

The NH residents who work in MA correctly point out that they pay MA income tax and have low use of MA services - how about if in the next state legislature they pass a bill where out of state residents will pay 8% income tax instead of 5% for residents? How would that grab you?

Can MA residents then say "if you don't like it find another job..."?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Instead, New Hampshire has this property tax system that is taking money from people who don't have it, and not taking money from people who do!

Hmmm, according to the census, the median household net worth in the US in 2000 is $55,000. ( http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p70-88.pdf ). You have a property assessed at $800,000, over 14 TIMES the median. That would put you in the WEALTHIEST tiers in the nation. Even if you have an 80% mortgage on your property (which I highly doubt) you are still way above the median. Comparing yourself to someone who doesn't have money is a joke. Nobody, and I mean nobody likes a RICH whiner.

Asking for more taxes is going to affect you more than anyone else, keep at it............. you'll get what you want, but you won't like it.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by ITD

You have a property assessed at $800,000, over 14 TIMES the median. That would put you in the WEALTHIEST tiers in the nation. Even if you have an 80% mortgage on your property (which I highly doubt) you are still way above the median. Comparing yourself to someone who doesn't have money is a joke.

Sorry ITD. Your argument breaks down when you consider accessable, actual cash. Most in FLL's position hope to NEVER cash in on that wealth. They'd quickly give up those paper gains for the opportunity to stay on the land that may have been in the family for generations.

But, using your argument, instead when that $10K tax bill arrives for the nth year in a row, they don't have actual cash to pay it. So, as you suggest, they very sadly cash in that "wealth", sell to a "richer" purchaser who, to justify the land investment, now tears down the cottage and puts up a McMansion. And the cycle continues.

So, my "rich" mid-80's parents, who have lived there for their whole lives, should just easily cash in, "simply" move, and now be "happy" having moved from the place they worked and dreamed for their whole lives?

Something needs to change...

[JDeere]

You gotta love FLL’s last post. Seems the only tax the he or really anybody likes is the one the other guy pays!

The reality is that no matter who they tax we all end up paying.

As far as the New Hampshire advantage goes FLL already knows we have one of the lowest tax burdens in the country. So, stop whining and move back to Massachusetts.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...005/index.html

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Instead, New Hampshire has this property tax system that is taking money from people who don't have it, and not taking money from people who do!

Well let's remember that the present system was designed to take $$s from the rich, those rich enough to own valuable property. Now NH is looking to luxury tax them outta state rich pr ... hmmm ... "people" because they have the $$s. Willie Sutton must be smiling. Too bad you got caught in the net used to snare them rick pr ... "people". Then again given the above statement, maybe it's not too bad. Tax them, not me - why is that always fair ? You need to tell them Meredith selectmen to spend more time at Walmart. Maybe they'll catch onto the whole slashing/falling prices thing.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Sorry ITD. Your argument breaks down when you consider accessable, actual cash. Most in FLL's position hope to NEVER cash in on that wealth. They'd quickly give up those paper gains for the opportunity to stay on the land that may have been in the family for generations.

Only in America can we complain that our “investment” has done well. There are plenty of options open to FL and your parenst from reverse mortgages, donating his/thier home to Massachusetts etc….. That will allow him to live out his days without having to worry about the bills.

[Chris Exley]

Our cottage is 3rd generation owned. There is only a small note on the property from doing some work on the place. 800 SqFt. If the tax bill goes up substantially, we may have to consider our alternatives (sell).

We live in PA and have a 6% sales tax, and a 2.3% state income tax, a 1% local township tax, $4,500 school tax bill. Thank goodness I don't work in Philadelphia anymore, because that is an additional 4% tax.

I don't understand NH residents opposing a sales tax in exchange for property tax abatement (I know, it never stays that way). It would seem to me that since tourism is the number 1 factor in sustaining the economy in NH, that you would be generating substantial revenue from out of state visitors. Adding money to the state.

Keeping the property tax low, and instituting a sales tax would help keep the real estate market strong (no undue tax burdens).

Just a thought (rant).
Chris

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Chris Exley

I don't understand NH residents opposing a sales tax in exchange for property tax abatement (I know, it never stays that way).
Chris

You answered your own question. Additional taxes never cost anyone less.

[Little Bear]

Don't focus on the taxes, focus on the spending. The towns have to raise enough revenue to cover the budget expenses. Look at the school budgets for these towns - they are out of control. Everyone is concerned about how to fund the schools, but who's questioning how much money is being allocated to these schools?

People need to redirect their efforts into making these towns accountable for their spending and also need to completely rethink the way these schools spend money. Fancy buildings to replace existing buildings that are structurally sound, but might need a renovation that costs far less than the replacement cost. But who's watching? The expenses just keep increasing and the quality of the product just keeps decreasing. Correlate that to private business and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that one would not be in business very long if it was operated the same as these public schools are being operated. There is little accountability and they think they just have an endless supply of money, which the effectively do - yours and mine.

[Bear Islander]

If they did implement a luxury tax for out of state property owners they would find ways around it pretty quick. As it is many waterfront homes are not owned by individuals but by realty trusts. And if that dodge didn't work you can alway form a New Hampshire corporation and transfer ownership to the corporation.

May not be worth the trouble for lower priced homes. But if you own a McMansion, just call up your attorney. As usual the little guy will foot most of the bill.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Don't focus on the taxes, focus on the spending. The towns have to raise enough revenue to cover the budget expenses. {snip} There is little accountability and they think they just have an endless supply of money, which the effectively do - yours and mine.

You're 100% correct that spending is the root cause. IMO though the thinking, as demonstrated by the proposed 2'nd home tax, is that NH looks to get "free" $$s from the out of staters who pay in but don't take out (much) and get no vote in the money spending decisions. It seems to be the nature of people to spend OPM more frivolously than their own $$s. FLL's plight and response illustrate the nature of the problem. So long as people look for "the rich", and not themselves, to pay the way then it's awfully hard to control the spending side of things. Unfortunately the answer seems to be to look for other sources of revenue to milk, make exemptions when the "wrong" people get hurt and look for ways to hurt the "right" people.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

If they did implement a luxury tax for out of state property owners they would find ways around it pretty quick. As it is many waterfront homes are not owned by individuals but by realty trusts. And if that dodge didn't work you can alway form a New Hampshire corporation and transfer ownership to the corporation.

Transferring ownership into a trust or corporation has no bearing that I know of on property taxes. If there is a way, please let us all know so we can start to take advantage.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Transferring ownership into a trust or corporation has no bearing that I know of on property taxes. If there is a way, please let us all know so we can start to take advantage.

I am guessing what Bear Lover was getting at was for the out of state owners to put their property under a NH entity so that they are no longer considered out of staters for the mentioned luxury tax if it was to be put in place. This is not to dodge property tax.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Chris Exley

We live in PA and have a 6% sales tax, and a 2.3% state income tax, a 1% local township tax, $4,500 school tax bill. Thank goodness I don't work in Philadelphia anymore, because that is an additional 4% tax.

I don't understand NH residents opposing a sales tax in exchange for property tax abatement (I know, it never stays that way).
Just a thought (rant).
Chris

Chris,let me repeat myself and say it again LOUDER.NEVER NEVER EVER has adding another tax,reduced the existing tax burden on us.Its a fact.Don't kid yourself or be persuaded by liberal politicos that say it will.They won't find somewhere to spend the new found revenue.

[jetskier]

Our property is currently in trust and it has no bearing (as you might imagine) on the current property taxes. We are considered out of state by virtue of our declaration of primary residence (MA). It is a pain...I have even had to fight with the registry to get my snowmobile trailer registered in NH (It stays up there).

Bottom line...out of state owners are a significant asset to the tax base as we pay more than we take. In addition, we are in a soft housing market and mediocre economy. As such, one would be inclined not to mess with this. Unhappy out of staters that decide to sell their second home would hurt the state all ways around.

Jetskier

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Sorry ITD. Your argument breaks down when you consider accessable, actual cash. Most in FLL's position hope to NEVER cash in on that wealth. They'd quickly give up those paper gains for the opportunity to stay on the land that may have been in the family for generations.

But, using your argument, instead when that $10K tax bill arrives for the nth year in a row, they don't have actual cash to pay it. So, as you suggest, they very sadly cash in that "wealth", sell to a "richer" purchaser who, to justify the land investment, now tears down the cottage and puts up a McMansion. And the cycle continues.

So, my "rich" mid-80's parents, who have lived there for their whole lives, should just easily cash in, "simply" move, and now be "happy" having moved from the place they worked and dreamed for their whole lives?

Something needs to change...

Check the definition of net worth. If in fact the property could be sold for $800k then I am sure there is tons of equity in it. Equity in the home figures into the equation of net worth even if they do not intend to sell. It is still an asset. That is unless FLL sucked out all the equity over the years paying for those trips to Walmart for spray paint... (post from long ago...) and paying for that expensive boat...

Regardless of how small the house or lot is, what is a buildable lot in Meredith on the water with incredible views as stated worth??? Increase in taxes sucks all around, I am certainly not arguing that. it sounds like they finally caught up with him. Mine are on the rise too, I am on an island and do not use most of the town services including the school. My island property is worth 1.5 times more than what my primary residence is worth, although it is less than half the size.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Don't focus on the taxes, focus on the spending.

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

So long as people look for "the rich", and not themselves, to pay the way then it's awfully hard to control the spending side of things.

Exactly, increased property values do not cause property taxes to go up (unless you have been under taxed due to faulty assessment) as a rule, there are always exceptions, but we should be able to agree on the basic premise. Taxes go up to cover increased spending. These politicians need to be held accountable for this, unfortunately most people don't pay attention and focus on the slick campaign ( "Together we can" comes to mind) and not the background and intentions of the candidate. This is why it is so important to pay attention and watch these guys.

Whether you have an $800,000 house or $800,000 stuffed in your mattress you are still at least $745,000 better off than half of the population in the US, way better off, in fact they would consider you filthy rich. That wealth needs to be managed or you will lose it. The more taxes you wish for and get, the quicker it will disappear unless you figure out how to keep it.

Maybe someone could give Ted Kennedy a call for information on how to avoid taxes on inheritances, he's done very well.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ITD

Taxes go up to cover increased spending. These politicians need to be held accountable for this, unfortunately most people don't pay attention and focus on the slick campaign ( "Together we can" comes to mind) and not the background and intentions of the candidate. This is why it is so important to pay attention and watch these guys.

ITD I couldn't have said it better..... I have no issues when Taxes legitimatly having to go up. But the issue facing NH and many states is that Taxes are going up because of a shortage of funds, which is do to POOR MANAGEMENT of the current income of the states and towns. The government at any level is wasteful, and the time has come where people need to make the government officals responsible for there wastefulness.... But insted a vast majority of the public sits and watchs, and complains, insted of reacting....People need to question there elected officials, and when they are caught with there hands in the till so to speak FIRE THEM....not re-elect them.... There are many politicians out there that people complain about, but they never get removed from office, because the complainers never vote. And as long as old school politicians remain in office the new politicians will learn the old ways. Once the politicians find out that they have to prove themsleves and live up to there promises then things will change.

[Little Bear]

The problem is really not between residents and non-residents of the State, but rather the problem is between residents and non-residents of the Town. Non-residents of the Town have no voting rights and no say whatsoever on how their tax dollars are spent within that Town. To me, this is a major problem that should be causing an uprising. It would be interesting to compare the tax revenues from the non-residents versus the residents from any one of the towns surrounding Winnipesaukee.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

People need to question there elected officials, and when they are caught with there hands in the till so to speak FIRE THEM....not re-elect them

I think this was clearly demonstrated at the polls last month. Hopefully, the message will stick.

[boathousegirl]

As I've said before, my property taxes in Belmont on Winnisquam are almost $23,000 dollars a year. That's $442.00 a week. If they try to charge me a luxury tax I'm in big trouble. Rest assured I am not rich. I work very hard to be able to keep the home that has been my dream.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Don't focus on the taxes, focus on the spending.

Something we all seem to agree on here. Part of the problem is that the spending is dependent on OPM so the incentive to look at this more closely isn't there as much as it should be.

Originally Posted by JDeere

Only in America can we complain that our “investment” has done well. There are plenty of options open to FL and your parenst from reverse mortgages, donating his/thier home to Massachusetts etc….. That will allow him to live out his days without having to worry about the bills.

JDeere, this is at the heart of my argument. It ISN'T an investment. It's a home. There's a BIG difference. I know it will never happen, but they'd gladly give up the "investment" gains in return for reducing their tax bill and knowing that their children and grandchildren could continue to enjoy a legacy that's helped keep the family very close. Reverse mortgages and the other avenues mentioned still result in the same end, the loss of the property.

I also fail to see how this becomes an out of state argument (other than for the folks who will take any opportunity to make it one) I'm talking about NH residents living in a NH home.

In the end the discussion isn't about tax bills. As has been mentioned, the tax bills will be there and will need to be paid. It is a discussion of how to more fairly allocate those taxes to those most able to pay.

Obviously I believe that those working are most able to pay, and those on fixed incomes are not. Not the "NH Way". But that would be my vote.

As for taxing non-residents more, didn't King George try that?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Something we all seem to agree on here. Part of the problem is that the spending is dependent on OPM so the incentive to look at this more closely isn't there as much as it should be.

I also fail to see how this becomes an out of state argument (other than for the folks who will take any opportunity to make it one) I'm talking about NH residents living in a NH home.

Merry Meeting This is an issue for everyone you are correct. I myself am trying not to make this a in state out of state argument....but there have been some point raised, such as I am an out of state property owner and therefore don't vote in NH. So it is hard for me to vote out bad politicians. But I can try and make sure the people I know, that feel the way I do get there buts to the polls. And I have met many people that feel like I do and are NH residents and they don't vote even with encouragement. My point is this in state and out of state land owner's are all this together.... Its time that the politicians are made accountable

[Woodsy]

Now for something REALLY unpopular!!

I think that some of you guys have it all wrong…

NH has one of the LOWEST tax burdens in the U.S.!! I am a NH resident and I fervently hope it stays that way.

Does NH have a funding problem with regards to education…YUP! Is a new tax the answer…NOPE! I agree with Siksukr, never in the history of the United States has new tax reduced an existing tax burden… NEVER EVER!

The solution as a few here have pointed out is watching the spending… For the most part I think the elected officials in NH do a pretty good job managing the money.

Let me preface the following paragraph. I am not picking on FLL at all. He put the numbers I used out there. I don’t know him and I hope it’s not taken personally as I am just using him as an example.

That being said, I really don’t have any sympathy for FLL or anyone else who is whining about their property tax bill. FLL stated his house was valued at $801,000 and his tax bill was approximately $10,000. Meredith’s 2006 tax rate is $10.74 per $1000. If you do the math $801 x 10.74 = $8602 or approximately 1.1% of the assesed value. Poor FLL… doesn’t want to pay an approximate 1.1% tax on his almost 1,000,000 home!! I am pretty sure state law in MA limits your taxes to 2.5% of the value, and most towns run right 2.5% and few have voted in overrides. This is in addition to the 5.3% income tax and 5% sales tax. Now you want to bring that madness to NH?? No thanks, no need to sell crazy here!! We have enough!

It is not NH's fault that your property values have skyrocketed. You have no one to blame but out of state residents such as yourselves who drove the value of property in NH thru the roof! It’s the simple laws of supply and demand. The demand far exceeded the supply so prices/property valuation went up. In Meredith, the tax rate per $1000 dropped almost $5 because of the revaluation. No doubt the drop in the tax rate benefited some while hurting others.

You can call it a home or an investment, in the end it all boils down to the fact that Real Estate is a taxable asset. An increase in the value of that asset results in an increase in taxes. It is not any different than a stock market portfolio or a bank account.

I do feel bad for families who feel like they are being forced out of their property because they can’t afford the taxes. However, nobody is forcing them to live there. There are plenty of options… They can sell the property, pocket a bunch of $$$ and live happily ever after, (albiet not in thier dream home) they can tell their kids to help out with the property tax and thus protect some of their inheritance, or they can take out a reverse mortgage.

Woodsy

[jetskier]

I think that the issue is that other states get more of their tax base based upon other tax mechanisms. New Hampshire is reliant upon property tax, but that does not mean that it should be disproportionately apportioned more so to nonresident owners. That is the basis of this thread. It is no longer clear what the property values are as the market has weakened to the point that valuations are questionable. If the state places more of the tax load on the out of staters, they will invariably lose as there is a definitive threshold of pain here. If the market is flooded with more homes and people don't come in to support the local economy, then the towns lose.

I do not agree with your math here...my house in MA is assessed much higher than my house in NH, yet my taxes to NH are much higher. The percentages don't hold up. In addition, most people I know do not consider their home a monitary investment IT IS A LIFESTYLE INVESTMENT. I love this...we hear about fire chiefs taking $167,000 in deferred vacation accrual and then talk about dispropotionate allocation of the tax burden. Let's hope more rationale heads prevail.

Jetskier

[rander7823]

Vote the people that are spending you into oblivion out of office and replace them with people who won't

OH I forgot you are one of those red states aren't you.

[John A. Birdsall]

My great uncle or maybe it was great great...built the cottage in 1908, and yes since then it has been modified, Lets see a telephone, a oil burner, a TV, some paint, some siding, enlarged living room, shrunk two porches, Put in a in house bathroom, ah oh yeah put in a shower. In 1938 the boat house was twice the size, but a hurricane took half of it.

Value of the property, its not dollars value that makes me want to keep coming their. I have been up there every summer of my sixty years, and my dad has been their all of his 83 years. It is a place to be in the summer for family, it has been passed down thru the years. But because we live out of state it feels like we are being taxed to death and getting nothing in return. I don't mind paying some of the property tax, But I think the spending has gotten way out of line because they got all of these out of staters paying the bills. Yes those who reside are paying, but that is their choice and they should be paying the bulk for the nice school houses that they have made since the property values have skyrockted. Sales Tax is the answer, that way eveyone will pay.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The solution as a few here have pointed out is watching the spending… For the most part I think the elected officials in NH do a pretty good job managing the money.

Lets see Schools, Marine Patrol, and Fish and Game, and those are just the government programs that are mentioned here.....I am not sure NH is doing a "pretty good job" but let me further back things up.....

Originally Posted by Woodsy

No thanks, no need to sell crazy here!! We have enough!

It is not NH's fault that your property values have skyrocketed.

No it is not NH's fault that prices have skyrocketed. What is crazy here though is this. As the prices have skyrocketed Tax rates have remained constant. Now if X * Y = Z and all though Y (tax rate) stays constant, if X (property value) gets larger, then Z (Tax income) gets larger. Having said that even if the only thing that has changed is property value the math shows the state is getting more money, so why are there funding issues......POOR MANAGEMENT.....not just at the state level but at the local level as well.......

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by jetskier

I do not agree with your math here...my house in MA is assessed much higher than my house in NH, yet my taxes to NH are much higher. The percentages don't hold up. In addition, most people I know do not consider their home a monitary investment IT IS A LIFESTYLE INVESTMENT. I love this...we hear about fire chiefs taking $167,000 in deferred vacation accrual and then talk about dispropotionate allocation of the tax burden. Let's hope more rationale heads prevail.

Jetskier

Jetskier... Property tax is the only tax we pay here. Now take your property tax on your house, then add in your income tax, and then add in the sales tax on everything you buy (except food) and you will see that the tax burden here in NH is very low, I think only Tennesee is lower.

It really doesn't matter how people percieve thier property, be it investment or lifestyle or home. All of the states in the Union view property as a taxable assest and tax property at varying rates. In NH we rely soley on property tax and want to keep it that way.

Woodsy

[Paugus Bay Resident]

New Hampshire has the 2nd lowest state tax burden, 7.3% of per-capita income. The lowest tax burden is Alaska (6.4%). This compares to the national average of 10.6%

Here's an interesting link http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/335.html

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I am pretty sure state law in MA limits your taxes to 2.5% of the value, and most towns run right 2.5% and few have voted in overrides.

Not quite right Woodsy, my property tax in MA runs right about at that 1.2 % mark. The 2.5 % number that's confusing you is actually a limit on the amount the tax levy (total collected) in a town can be raised before new growth is added. ( New growth would be a lot that had a house or bldg added to it, raising it's tax, that doesn't count toward the 2.5%) If the politicians want to raise taxes beyond that 2.5 %, they have to go to the voters and get, at least in our town, a 2/3 majority to agree with the increase. It does happen occasionally, sometimes the voters feel the increase is justified, sometimes they don't. I think this would be a great system for NH to adopt, you people in state should check it out.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

It is not NH's fault that your property values have skyrocketed. You have no one to blame but out of state residents such as yourselves who drove the value of property in NH thru the roof!

Nope, I don't buy this statement, most of my summertime neighbors are from NH. Plus you let the builders and the people selling off the hook. The people (probably some of which complain mightily about the taxes) who squeeze and gouge every last penny out of the properties they sell.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

In Meredith, the tax rate per $1000 dropped almost $5 because of the revaluation. No doubt the drop in the tax rate benefited some while hurting others.

I would guess that everyone saw their tax bill go up, the tax rate is adjusted based on the new valuation plus any increase approved. The only people who might see decrease are those whose assessment was wrong and had it fixed. Once again I'm sure there are a few exceptions.

The balance of what you said is spot on.

[fatlazyless]

We all know that the NH house, senate, governors council, governor, and both congressional seats are now all held by Democrats for the first time together since 1874. In the next election, it is very likely that Governor Jeanne Shaheen will be a very strong challenger for incumbent Senator John E Sununu.

Here's my question. Was the big New Hampshire Democratic win due mostly to a dislike for President Bush and the war in Iraq, or was it due to state wide unhappiness with increasing property taxes which are increasing faster than people's income?

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Jetskier... Property tax is the only tax we pay here. Now take your property tax on your house, then add in your income tax, and then add in the sales tax on everything you buy (except food) and you will see that the tax burden here in NH is very low, I think only Tennesee is lower.

It really doesn't matter how people percieve thier property, be it investment or lifestyle or home. All of the states in the Union view property as a taxable assest and tax property at varying rates. In NH we rely soley on property tax and want to keep it that way.

Woodsy

The tax revenue is clearly based upon property taxes. Clearly! However, as an out of state property owner, I don't benefit from the lack of income tax. In addition, my contribution to overall cost is much lower than a full time resident...that has been discussed in this thread extensively. As such, it makes no sense to consider higher taxes for out of state owners. In addition, if you are going to run a state with a low tax burden, spending prudence is extremely important. As such, the deferred vacation payout previously mentioned is rankling. I believe that out of state owners carry their fair share of the tax burden. Nuff said.

Jetskier

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by jetskier

The tax revenue is clearly based upon property taxes. Clearly! However, as an out of state property owner, I don't benefit from the lack of income tax. In addition, my contribution to overall cost is much lower than a full time resident...that has been discussed in this thread extensively. As such, it makes no sense to consider higher taxes for out of state owners. In addition, if you are going to run a state with a low tax burden, spending prudence is extremely important. As such, the deferred vacation payout previously mentioned is rankling. I believe that out of state owners carry their fair share of the tax burden. Nuff said.

Jetskier

One could counter that it makes no sense to own taxable property where you cannot vote too... Out of state owners carry (willingly) way more than thier fair share. They can always stop buy selling or moving to NH permanently. I live in NH and (willingly) work in MA; comparitively I get nothing for my money, I could quit, but I like my job.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's my question. Was the big New Hampshire Democratic win due mostly to a dislike for President Bush and the war in Iraq, or was it due to state wide unhappiness with increasing property taxes which are increasing faster than people's income?

NH is no longer a republican state. Why? Gee I wonder where all of its new residents are coming from? That crowd will not be happy until we have an income, sales, and excise tax. I am sure there are other taxes that I a missing. I think that explains the vote better then anything else.

[TomC]

my heading got cut off. I was going to say "pay relatively high property tax as an out-of-stater?"

Originally Posted by JDeere

NH is no longer a republican state. Why? Gee I wonder where all of its new residents are coming from? ...

yep

get an in-state rate on fishing license? nope
get an in-state rate on ORV reg? nope
get an in-state rate on hunting license? nope
get a real say in budget decisions in town? nope
get an in-state rate on tuition in University system? nope
get a tax break for being a veteran? nope - have to be a resident

get hosed with an out-of-state luxury tax on property? "we're thinking about it"!

Many on the forum say: "Don't like it? Get lost or move here".... well, if the system incentivizes vacation property owners to eventually establish their residence in NH, and they do so, the votes (and political leanings) naturally come with them..

Throw the no income and no sales tax reality on top of it and that's the icing on the cake, practically making it a no-brainer to move to NH come retirement time...

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

New Hampshire has the 2nd lowest state tax burden, 7.3% of per-capita income. The lowest tax burden is Alaska (6.4%). This compares to the national average of 10.6%

Here's an interesting link http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/335.html

It seems strange to compare NH's tax burden to income when NH's income is not part of the tax picture. How about rating tax burden as a percentage of property value?

[Felix]

New Hampshire may have high tax rates, but look what's happening on Cape Cod. The town of Barnstable now has two property taxes rates. One rate for registered voters and one for non-voters. Guiess whose rate is higher?

[Paugus Bay Resident]

It seems strange to compare NH's tax burden to income

It's per capita income. Last time I checked, many NH residents had income.

[Merrymeeting]

To all those responding that the answer is to sell, please do not post on other threads complaining about the rich, out-of-staters who are changing NH voting demographics and lifestyles.

When the working class/retired NH owners can no longer afford to keep the places, guess who buys them?

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by TomC

get an in-state rate on fishing license? nope
get an in-state rate on ORV reg? nope
get an in-state rate on hunting license? nope
get a real say in budget decisions in town? nope
get an in-state rate on tuition in University system? nope
get a tax break for being a veteran? nope - have to be a resident

get hosed with an out-of-state luxury tax on property? "we're thinking about it"!

.

Please demonstrate how if I a New Hampshire resident bought a second home in Mass. or any other state that those issues would change. All this whining with no facts to show that your home state acts differently towards non-residents.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Please demonstrate how if I a New Hampshire resident bought a second home in Mass. or any other state that those issues would change. All this whining with no facts to show that your home state acts differently towards non-residents.

I'm not whining, and it does nothing to bolster your argument...except diminish its credibility.

second, who is claiming my (or anyone's) state acts differently..?

i was trying to get at two points in this thread: #1, what do people think of looking to add a higher property tax (luxury) to non-residents and extending the two-tiered treatment based on residency? #2, point out the irony of NH residents creating a tax and fee system that encourages out-of-staters to declare their residency in NH as soon as they can - and then complain about the politics they bring when they do!

if my home state designed a system like this, i wouldn't wonder why a political shift was brought about by wave of people moving in - it would be a clear case of cause and effect.

You can't say "oh my god, we're turning into Massachusetts" when the NH system is two-tiered and encourages residency (from a tax and fee standpoint), or "if you don't like it sell" and then lament the type of people and politics that do the buying..

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

..{snip}.. NH has one of the LOWEST tax burdens in the U.S.!! .. {snip} .. Meredith’s 2006 tax rate is $10.74 per $1000. {snip}

I agree with you there Woodsy on NH having one of the lowest tax burdens. I wish my property tax was as low as $10.74 per $1000 AND I pay sales tax and income tax on top of that.

[islandAl]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Please demonstrate how if I a New Hampshire resident bought a second home in Mass.

Why would anyone living in NH want to have a second home anywhere else. You already have the best.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by TomC

second, who is claiming my (or anyone's) state acts differently..?

i was trying to get at two points in this thread: #1, what do people think of looking to add a higher property tax (luxury) to non-residents and extending the two-tiered treatment based on residency? #2, point out the irony of NH residents creating a tax and fee system that encourages out-of-staters to declare their residency in NH as soon as they can - and then complain about the politics they bring when they do!

if my home state designed a system like this, i wouldn't wonder why a political shift was brought about by wave of people moving in - it would be a clear case of cause and effect.

..

Ok, I surrender because I have no idea what you are talking about. You run off a list of things that you feel are unfair and then say that is not my point?

The likelihood of the luxury tax going anywhere is slim at best.

Many states tax non-residents at a higher property tax rate then it does its residents. I don’t agree with that and would not make such a place my second home. At this time NH is not one of them.

Moving to NH because of its tax status only works if you live and work in NH.

If you are retired it may or may not be the best state to retire in because of the dividend and interest tax as well as the high property tax.

NH is my home and I am proud of it. To listen to some folks whine about how unfair it is when they do not get to vote in 2 states is absurd. Understand the frustration but if you like NH then come up and enjoy and stop complaining.

[Taz]

ITD talks about Republicans don't get it but Republicans have not cornered that market. NH's leading democrat (Lynch) does not get it either. His great education funding plan during his first term was to eliminate the state wide property tax and raise the cigarette tax. Now theres a wonderful plan.

In the latest election that he won overwhelmingly. He continued to pledge that he would veto a sales or income tax. What he did not seem to understand is that (or maybe he did and this was his way of not being the bad guy) there are many legislators who would support a broad based tax and now that the democrats are in control there is the very real possibility that any veto could be over ridden. What do you think Coburn was trying to tell you Govenor.

Anyone who thinks a broad based tax will solve all the education funding issues needs only to look to Massachusetts and Vermont just to name 2. I am sure there are more. They have a sales tax, an income tax and high property taxes(Vermont property taxes are even higher than NH) and they are still crying about education being underfunded.

[fatlazyless]

I'm no expert on New Hampshire constitutional law, for sure, but a state-wide tax like the state school property tax has to be equally applied as required by the NH constitution. A sales or income tax that is set at one rate, like 3% or 4%, is equal by definition. A two tier property tax system on a state wide level would not pass the rules of the NH constitution.

In order to make the state school property tax equal, a few requirements have been set up by the state as a results of several law suits that went up to the NH Supreme Court. These include costly town-by-town reevaluations every five years, oversight by the state, and having assessed values fall between 90 & 100% of actual value. Recently, Sanborton was cited for not meeting these requirements and will probably have to redo their expensive assessment.

If people are not happy with their taxes, they can vote for someone else in the next election. It's safe to say that the NH Republicans would prefer to cut off their right hand before they would agree to a broad based tax, and everyone knows this.

[Silver Duck]

It might not be wise to give the MA legilature the idea of setting up a two-tiered tax system based on the premise that "there's a whole batch of people out there that we can gouge just because there's nothing they can do about it".

It's bad enough that citizens of both states get stuck with the full tax burden appropriate to receiving the full range of services, without getting very much in return. Starting a "range war" by gouging each other's citizens extra because there's not much they can do about it would not be a good thing!

Silver Duck

[TomC]

I have heard (but do not know for sure) that Maine will even tax a spouse's income earned in NH if there is family income earned in Maine - even for NH residents... can this be true?

I heard about this during the argument over what state the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard is in... i believe it is considered in Maine, but of course has lots of NH residents working there - whose incomes earned there are taxed by the state of Maine. As I understood it (hopefully incorrectly) that these workers' spouses also owe Maine state income tax on their earnings even if it comes from NH jobs....

Is is possible that some forum readers find themselves in this situation and can comment?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Taz

ITD talks about Republicans don't get it but Republicans have not cornered that market.

I think you may have confused me with someone else, although just being a Republican doesn't mean you get it, which is what I meant when I said RINO, Republican in Name Only, to describe the legislator I originally posted about.

[tis]

Tom C. That is true. I think it is awful too. I also have heard that people such as builders, plumbers, electricians etc. don't want to work in Maine because Maine can also tax their NH earnings. I don't know if that is true though.
In Florida if you are a resident your first $25000. is deducted from your tax bill and you have a 2 or 3% cap each year. If you are not a resident, well----
I think that is discriminating.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by TomC

I have heard (but do not know for sure) that Maine will even tax a spouse's income earned in NH if there is family income earned in Maine - even for NH residents... can this be true?

Maine does not tax the income of the spouse that works in New Hampshire (using your given example). However, the income earned by the spouse that worked in Maine is taxed in the tax bracket of the combined income of the two spouses. So if you live in New Hampshire but work in Maine while your significant other works in New Hampshire Maine taxes you not on the combined income of both of you, but only you at the higher tax bracket.

Of course Maine's sales tax & income tax have done little to alleviate the angst caused by its cities & towns property taxes. Living here on a border community with Maine I get to read at election time each year the anger just across the border by many Maine residents over their sky rocketing property taxes in addition to their sales & income taxes!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

"...So, my "rich" mid-80's parents, who have lived there for their whole lives, should just easily cash in, "simply" move, and now be "happy" having moved from the place they worked and dreamed for their whole lives? Something needs to change...

Ten years ago, a new retiree could put a mobile home in a Palm Beach County oceanfront trailer park for $30,000. If things go according to plan next year, each retiree there will be "rewarded" with one million dollars for its sale to a developer. Sadly for those retirees, the new condominium apartments will be priced w-a-a-a-y beyond $1,000,000 each. (And darken the beach with their tall shadows).

Nearly 500 new retiree-millionaires may be looking for waterfront properties in a state without an income tax.

Retirement with an RV isn't the answer, either. Even Florida's realty agents are upset.

I suggest this bandaid:
New Hampshire's 8% "Meals and Rooms Tax" could be bumped up one percentage point without a wimper, IMHO. (At least one Florida County gets an 11% "Accommodations Tax" in addition to having a 7% sales tax: or a local, voter-opted, 7½% sales tax).

[Woodsy]

The problem with taxes is that nobody likes to pay them... LOL!

The only real funding issue in the state is education. MP and Fish & Game are self funded, with no money coming out of the general fund.

No offense to you out-of-state property owners, but quite frankly if you don't like our tax system too bad! On paper, it would seem that an income or sales tax would benefit you in the form of reduced property taxes. But the reality is far different...

Taxes NEVER go down... Once they are in place, they are there forever.

ITD has stated his MA property tax runs approximately 1.2% of his property's value, pretty much same as FLL in Meredith. However, ITD also has a 5.3% income tax and a 5% sales tax.

Why shouldn't an owner or a builder try to get fair market value for thier property? Are you suggesting that if/when you go to sell you will lower your asking price by $100,000 just to benefit your neighbors taxes??? Thats absurd!! Prices are set by the market... and its the rich folk that can afford a second home are driving the bus!! The problem is there is always somebody a bit richer.. unless of course you are a Saudi Shiek or Bill Gates! LOL!

Out-of-State property owners have the luxury of owning a second home, and although you might be a majority here on this board, you are certainly not a majority in the towns you own property. Most people who relocate here from other states quickly change thier point of view and embrace the NH tax system. Why?? Because it benefits them! I don't see MA or any other state giving special treatment to Out-Of-State property owners... they can't vote or have any say in how their money is spent...

Those of you in the surrounding states had also be careful what you wish for... IF NH instituted a 3% income tax, states like MA would lose millions in revenue from all of the NH residents working there.

Woodsy

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

No offense to you out-of-state property owners, but quite frankly if you don't like our tax system too bad! On paper, it would seem that an income or sales tax would benefit you in the form of reduced property taxes. But the reality is far different...

Taxes NEVER go down... Once they are in place, they are there forever.

ITD has stated his MA property tax runs approximately 1.2% of his property's value, pretty much same as FLL in Meredith. However, ITD also has a 5.3% income tax and a 5% sales tax.

Oh how things get muddied up, hard to keep track of who is for what.

1. Yes, I live in Massachusetts, I pay:
property tax, property tax surcharge, state income tax, state dividend tax, sales tax, excise taxes, many fees and probably many others that are tough to gleen from my various bills (Charter cable and Verizon come to mind). The funny thing is that the politicians with this diverse source of "revenue" still say there is not enough money.

My point has been that additional taxes benefit no one, especially an out of state taxpayer. Anyone who thinks that property taxes will go down or not increase because of an additional income or sales tax is smoking crack. Conversely, either one would have a minimal effect on me, so this is really your fight. Therefore your fight is not with me, it is with your legislators who are proposing these taxes.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Why shouldn't an owner or a builder try to get fair market value for thier property? Are you suggesting that if/when you go to sell you will lower your asking price by $100,000 just to benefit your neighbors taxes??? Thats absurd!! Prices are set by the market... and its the rich folk that can afford a second home are driving the bus!! The problem is there is always somebody a bit richer.. unless of course you are a Saudi Shiek or Bill Gates! LOL!

No, I never suggested that people should not extract every last penny when they sell their property. I will certainly get every last penny I can if I ever sell. I just get a kick pointing out that some of the same people who complain about rising prices are the very same people who sell their property for top dollar and benefit handsomely from it. Stuff like that amuses me. There are usually at least two sides to every problem, that's all.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Out-of-State property owners have the luxury of owning a second home, and although you might be a majority here on this board, you are certainly not a majority in the towns you own property. Most people who relocate here from other states quickly change thier point of view and embrace the NH tax system. Why?? Because it benefits them! I don't see MA or any other state giving special treatment to Out-Of-State property owners... they can't vote or have any say in how their money is spent...

Those of you in the surrounding states had also be careful what you wish for... IF NH instituted a 3% income tax, states like MA would lose millions in revenue from all of the NH residents working there.

Woodsy

I see many "out of staters", me included, saying an income tax or sales tax would be a mistake. Anyway, you need to direct your comments to YOUR legislators who are considering additional taxes. As I mentioned before, a Prop 2 1/2 type law would would be a great thing for NH, you guys should check it out.

ITD

[Little Bear]

This letter appeared in the December 17 Sunday Citizen. It hit the nail on the head.

Income tax won't solve the problem
To the editor:

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth." — Vladimir Lenin

The lie being told today is that an income tax will somehow become a tax that others will pay. The real truth is that an income tax only serves government by giving it more money to spend without asking for it. The real truth is that there is no state in the union that has reduced its overall tax burden by the implementation of an income tax. Pro-income taxers, prove me wrong and name one.

What should be asked is why education budgets are now doubling every eight years or so. Are we educating twice as many kids? Are we providing twice the education? Or should we begin the debate on what the approximately $226,000 generously given per classroom for education in this state is actually spent on.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." — Sir Winston Churchill.

Cliff Newton

Rochester

[TomC]

CT General Statutes Chapter 90, section 7.6 provides for any citizen of the USA who is liable to the town for property taxes in excess of $1000 to vote at town meetings on matters not involving elections..

So there goes the "no other state does it" argument...

I'm not a lawyer, so read for yourself:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap090.htm

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by TomC

CT General Statutes Chapter 90, section 7.6 provides for any citizen of the USA who is liable to the town for property taxes in excess of $1000 to vote at town meetings on matters not involving elections..

So there goes the "no other state does it" argument...

I'm not a lawyer, so read for yourself:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap090.htm

The law goes on to state:

Requisite value necessary to vote determined without reference to existence of mortgage on the property; where husband and wife are joint owners, each is entitled to vote if assessed value is not less than $2,000; history of statute reviewed. 19 CS 234. Cited. 43 CS 297-302, 307, 309, 313.

GREAT LAW!!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by TomC

CT General Statutes Chapter 90, section 7.6 provides for any citizen of the USA who is liable to the town for property taxes in excess of $1000 to vote at town meetings on matters not involving elections..

So there goes the "no other state does it" argument...

I'm not a lawyer, so read for yourself:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap090.htm

Wow, nice find, makes me wonder if the New Hampshire general statues have any such law.....

[CTYankee]

I've been "lurking" on the forum for almost as long as there has been a forum. It is by far one of the best ways ever invented to stimulate robust discourse among the members of our Winnipesaukee community. Next to the proposed speed limit taxation seems to generate the most controversy, so I thought it would be a good topic for my first post.

I've been summering at the lake since I was an infant, almost fifty years. First on Lockes Island, where I still have many friends, now on Bear Island where I purchased a camp in the mid-eighties. I can't think of any place I'd rather spend time. I also can't think of any place I'd rather have brought my children. Spring, summer, fall and winter our family time at the lake has been priceless. Besides the obvious, the lake is also a special place because of the people of the area, some of the most pleasent and helpful I've met anywhere.

Paying taxes is not a pleasent thing to do. That being said it is necessary in order to preserve what we all enjoy about the lake. I think the answer rests with each of us to press our elected and appointed officials to make the most out of every tax dollar they get and reject excessive spending at the polls.

Tom C is correct, here in Connecticut if you own real property accessed at more than $1000.00 or $2000.00 if jointly owned you are allowed to vote on financial issues within the town the land is in. The law does not permit you vote on candidates for office or other matters but it does give you the ability to have some input on the budget. I don't know if this would work in New Hampshire where the number of properties owned by out-of-state people may actually be greater than the number of in-town property owners. I'd like to hear what some others think. By the way, believe me, Connecticut is not a role-model state in the area of taxation.

I do believe, however, that all things considered I've gotten a pretty good deal in New Hampshire.

CTYankee

[secondcurve]

CTYankee:

Trust me, you will never make everyone happy here......Unfortunately, there are a lot of unhappy folks out there........whether it be with the local fish & game officer, the guy on the street or the tax collector, no one does a satisfactory job! I'm glad to see that you appreciate what you have and see the glass as half full.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by CTYankee

"...I do believe, however, that all things considered I've gotten a pretty good deal in New Hampshire...." CTYankee

Gotta agree with you: it's the ticket to admission.

What's troubling are the trends: bigger everything and fewer kids.

[Little Bear]

Time to axe this "tax". Contact your reps and senators and tell them to do something worthwhile and prohibit views from being considered for tax values. These are arbitrary, subjective matters that have no consistancy from neighbor to neighbor or town to town.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...3-1694c9ed4a11

[RLW]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

Time to axe this "tax". Contact your reps and senators and tell them to do something worthwhile and prohibit views from being considered for tax values. These are arbitrary, subjective matters that have no consistancy from neighbor to neighbor or town to town.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...3-1694c9ed4a11

This view tax is crazy as people don't believe they should be taxed for a view, me being one of them. However when a cell tower is going to be placed near a homeowner they are the first ones to say that the tower well mess up his/her view and lower the value of their home. What does one want????

[fatlazyless]

Yes, it's in all the newspapers that there is no view tax, it doesn't exit. So why are property owners from all across this state so upset with their latest property tax bills? What is a-going on here, from Groveton to Hampton, from Swanzey to Orford, from Hopkinton to Concord; what's making the NH property taxpayers so unhappy?

So, NH has no view tax, and we can all agree to that.
But what it does have is a view factor which gets figured into the bill. So what's happening now is that the NH property taxpayer who has a view, is getting factored up to a much fatter bill. You see it's not a view tax, it's just a view factor.

[NightWing]

The truth is that a view is worth more on the real estate market. Suppose you were buying a home and had two identical homes to choose from. The first home was absolutely perfect in every way except it faced a row of condos that prevented you from seeing the lake. The second home was exactly the same in every way except it overlooked the lake with an unobstructed view.

Both homes were priced exactly the same, and you can easily afford it. Which one would you buy? Let me guess. The one with the lake view. OK, same two houses only the view home is more money. Pick a number.............5K...10K....15K......whatever. More money. Would you be willing to see the lake for more money?

Try again. Same two houses priced the same. Just like before, one looks at a condo village and the other looks at the lake. This time, you can't quite afford the price, but you could squeak it by for less money. You REALLY love the design and all the features. So, you tell the realtor you will make a lesser offer on the house looking at condos because................it doesn't have a view.