Disturbing the Peace near Hanson Cove & Greens Basin, Moultonboro

[mlittlefield]

In the area around Hanson Cove and Round Island, before Greens Basin, locals and visitors have been dealing with a very loud horn—now sounding like a train horn—for the past few years. This horn is being used frequently despite no emergency, and it seems the person using it is trying to enforce a “no‑wake zone” that doesn’t actually exist. The behavior has become a nuisance and could interfere with real emergency responses. In the last week, the use of a siren noise has also been used as if they were impersonating a marine patrol boat; how is that even legal?? Unnecessary horn and siren use could cause confusion on the water and may delay responses to actual emergencies.

This individuals actions are ruining the peace and serenity many of us come to the lake to enjoy, with random, unnecessary horn and siren noises disrupting the area.

Has anyone else heard and been annoyed by this loud horn? I certainly have!!

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by mlittlefield

In the area around Hanson Cove and Round Island, before Greens Basin, locals and visitors have been dealing with a very loud horn—now sounding like a train horn—for the past few years. This horn is being used frequently despite no emergency, and it seems the person using it is trying to enforce a “no‑wake zone” that doesn’t actually exist. The behavior has become a nuisance and could interfere with real emergency responses. In the last week, the use of a siren noise has also been used as if they were impersonating a marine patrol boat; how is that even legal?? Unnecessary horn and siren use could cause confusion on the water and may delay responses to actual emergencies.

This individuals actions are ruining the peace and serenity many of us come to the lake to enjoy, with random, unnecessary horn and siren noises disrupting the area.

Has anyone else heard and been annoyed by this loud horn? I certainly have!!

We have heard the air horn every summer since we've been in Hanson Cove (Arcadia Campground) and have always appreciated it as, whenever we've been present at least, it was justified.

The No Wake buoy just outside Hanson Cove (at the rock) covers the whole area from there and into the wider opening in Greene's Basin as it's impossible to be >150' from any shore or other vessel, but I think the people who get honked at think it ends once getting past that little inlet.

The area between Girl Scout/Blanchard Island and Toltec Point/Raoul's Cove should also be no wake, but people fly through/around there all the time.

So, have I heard the air/fog horn? Yes. Am I bothered by it? No, because it's been justified every time I've heard it, it's an area with a lot of non-powered use, and it has always resulted in the vessel slowing down.

Have never heard a siren, though, so can't comment on that.

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[chachee52]

Horn? Who cares? hear those all day on the Broads. Don't know how that would interfere with an emergency?
Siren, that's a different story. Shouldn't be using one and that can possibly be looked at as impersonating an officer depending on the style siren.

[Descant]

Welcome, mlittlefield.

Since you're new to the Forum, you are forgiven once for the double post. To me, this is a boating topic, so I respond in that thread. On occasion, the Webmaster will move posts to a proper thread if mis-posted. Topics that get off topic too much may be closed.

Be aware that many regular participants here go immediately to "New Posts", not to various subjects like Boating or Restaurants.

The Webmaster (Don) does a great job. This is a free service with some overhead. Note there is a "Donate" button at the top of the page and you are encouraged to use it.

Think--Thanks for clarifying the purpose of the horn and its success.

[webmaster]

I’ve merged the two threads.

[tis]

Great idea. I think we need horns when the jet skis and wake boats blast their music and go through the No Wake of course making a wake. Will MP EVER sit by ALL the NO WAKE areas for an hour or so to get them under control? Guess not.

[GB Boater]

Is someone manually sounding the horn or is it set off by some type of motion detector?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by GB Boater

Is someone manually sounding the horn or is it set off by some type of motion detector?

Given that I've sometimes heard "no wake zone!" yelled after the rare boater doesn't get it, I always assumed it was a person setting it off.

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[BillTex]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Given that I've sometimes heard "no wake zone!" yelled after the rare boater doesn't get it, I always assumed it was a person setting it off.

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We are on a channel that is “no wake”. When there are obvious violators the whole neighborhood lites up with shouts of “no wake”! And yes air horns!

Fortunately, where we are this is a rare occurrence, and we don’t mind calling out the offenders. It’s not always young kids on jet skis. Some folks just need a reminder.
There are reasons for no wake zones.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by BillTex

We are on a channel that is “no wake”. When there are obvious violators the whole neighborhood lites up with shouts of “no wake”! And yes air horns!

Fortunately, where we are this is a rare occurrence, and we don’t mind calling out the offenders. It’s not always young kids on jet skis. Some folks just need a reminder.
There are reasons for no wake zones.

For sure, and I forgot to mention that it only happens once a week or a few times a month in the busiest times of the season. Again, my experience having spent much of my summers up there these last 13 years.

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[SAMIAM]

Just saying…there are retired curmudgeons (obviously because they are there all day) that sit watching the boat traffic and scream at people making a wake bigger than a raindrop.
Some are justified and some are not. We have a guy that sits on his dock with binoculars…….I’m tempted to shut down the engine and paddle past his place

Same in the Florida, even though boats are all on lifts and there are sea walls so no damage can really take place. Some people take that as their mission in life

[The Real BigGuy]

How about just following the regs? In NH “No Wake” means headway speed. Headway speed means as slow as you can go and still maintain control of your boat. The presence of boat lifts, breakwaters, or barriers doesn’t mean the regs don’t apply.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The No Wake buoy just outside Hanson Cove (at the rock) covers the whole area from there and into the wider opening in Greene's Basin as it's impossible to be >150' from any shore or other vessel, but I think the people who get honked at think it ends once getting past that little inlet.

The area between Girl Scout/Blanchard Island and Toltec Point/Raoul's Cove should also be no wake, but people fly through/around there all the time.

Is it? I don’t know the area well, and I certainly don’t have a dog in the fight, but I always like to see if there are facts to support opinions. Below is a link to the State regs as it pertains to no wake zones on Winnipesaukee. I can’t tell the reference points. What would these statutory regs look like if you marked them up on a map? Just looking at a map, my guess is that the area north of Hanson Cove is not a no wake zones, until you get “150 feet east of the entrance to Greene’s Basin”.

Here is the link.

https://gc.nh.gov/rules/state_agencies/saf-c5100.html

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Riviera

Is it? I don’t know the area well, and I certainly don’t have a dog in the fight, but I always like to see if there are facts to support opinions. Below is a link to the State regs as it pertains to no wake zones on Winnipesaukee. I can’t tell the reference points. What would these statutory regs look like if you marked them up on a map? Just looking at a map, my guess is that the area north of Hanson Cove is not a no wake zones, until you get “150 feet east of the entrance to Greene’s Basin”.

Here is the link.

https://gc.nh.gov/rules/state_agencies/saf-c5100.html

Here is the area being discussed. The blue section is what I've seen/heard "enforced" by the neighbor referenced in the OP—and is marked with a NWZ buoy—while the red circles are areas I believe people think might be ok to go faster than no wake as they're not marked.

Because there is no way to be further than 150' from shore in those rings, however—not even remotely close to that distance—it doesn't need to be signed.



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[tis]

And you know we were just saying these new No Wake Sign are not as visible as the old ones. I wonder if some people even see them. I agree, if they knew the rules, they would know 150' from shore they can't make a wake without the signs, but obviously, many need them.

[The Real BigGuy]

Unfortunately, a lot of people apparently don’t care or can’t tell the difference between foot and 6 inches.

[tis]

Don't you agree we need bigger signs? Or bigger WRITING on the signs.

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Unfortunately, a lot of people apparently don’t care or can’t tell the difference between foot and 6 inches.

Way back when I took my boating course in the classroom, there was a sea captain that didn't pass the test. In the middle of the class the instructor took us outside and said walk 150' from this step. The sea Captain only went about 20 ft. He was insistent that the 150 ft rule did not apply to him because he was on the ocean, even when coming back to dock.
So you are correct!!!

[thinkxingu]

Ok, so around 11 today my daughter and I were out kayaking/paddleboarding when a Robalo center console continued through the NWZ and a bunch of people from a few locations started yelling/whistling him down. There was no horn, so it took the captain a few seconds to figure it out.

There were a few other paddleboarders nearby who agreed either the captain was clueless or careless as it's really hard to miss the NWZ buoy—which also says "whole cove" on it, by the way—AND there's no possible way to be >150 feet from any piece of land. It's really not possible to be even half of that in any direction, really.

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[tis]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Ok, so around 11 today my daughter and I were out kayaking/paddleboarding when a Robalo center console continued through the NWZ and a bunch of people from a few locations started yelling/whistling him down. There was no horn, so it took the captain a few seconds to figure it out.

There were a few other paddleboarders nearby who agreed either the captain was clueless or careless as it's really hard to miss the NWZ buoy—which also says "whole cove" on it, by the way—AND there's no possible way to be >150 feet from any piece of land. It's really not possible to be even half of that in any direction, really.

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MP needs to take one boat and sit by each No Wake zone for a couple hours. A drive through doesn't do it. Once they stop a few, the people get the message. That's what MP used to do in the old days.

[DEJ]

Install Flock camera's at all no wake zones! LOL.

[tis]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Install Flock camera's at all no wake zones! LOL.

Great idea.

[Winilyme]

I love this section of the lake...but it is a haul. The relatively few times I've been up there I've seen folks disobeying the 150' rule (seems to be mostly jet skis - which I ride).

Last weekend I was up there and observed at least one ski and I believe a boat that were not observing the no-wake requirement. Yet each time I come out of there, I feel the no-wake signage could be improved. Like a lot of rules on the lake, I believe many folks just don't recall them all and with better signage, some would choose to obey the no-wake zones more than they do now. It'll never be 100% but I feel what's there now isn't in-your-face enough to deter some folks.

I don't really care for lot's of signage everywhere but this area is a bit more complex than many other areas of the lake and, without point blank signage, you're going to find more folks that just don't follow the rules. This may be due to forgetfulness or because their mind is somewhere else.

There will always be 'those who just don't care' but a bit more signage could improve things.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

I love this section of the lake...but it is a haul. The relatively few times I've been up there I've seen folks disobeying the 150' rule (seems to be mostly jet skis - which I ride).

Last weekend I was up there and observed at least one ski and I believe a boat that were not observing the no-wake requirement. Yet each time I come out of there, I feel the no-wake signage could be improved. Like a lot of rules on the lake, I believe many folks just don't recall them all and with better signage, some would choose to obey the no-wake zones more than they do now. It'll never be 100% but I feel what's there now isn't in-your-face enough to deter some folks.

I don't really care for lot's of signage everywhere but this area is a bit more complex than many other areas of the lake and, without point blank signage, you're going to find more folks that just don't follow the rules. This may be due to forgetfulness or because their mind is somewhere else.

There will always be 'those who just don't care' but a bit more signage could improve things.

Exactly. And maybe no even more but more visible!! The signs are very hard to see.

[TomC]

if an operator cannot understand what headway speed/no-wake within 150 feet of other boats, land, etc., means - then maybe they should not be in command of a vessel. Some people, myself included, enjoy the landscape as nature intended... not something like this:

[ApS]

OK.

We're left with airhorns.

'Think I'll go buy one...

[tis]

Tom C, and I totally agree with you. But how many of these operators ARE in command of their vessel??

[sky's]

Originally Posted by BillTex

We are on a channel that is “no wake”. When there are obvious violators the whole neighborhood lites up with shouts of “no wake”! And yes air horns!

Fortunately, where we are this is a rare occurrence, and we don’t mind calling out the offenders. It’s not always young kids on jet skis. Some folks just need a reminder.
There are reasons for no wake zones.

im so glad I have zero desire to live on that "lake" Sandwich is nice and quiet

[Descant]

I doubt we have numbers, but I'd suggest there are many folks out there who got their safety certificate in another state, USCG Auxiliary and Power Squadron. That is, jurisdictions where there is a significantly different approach to headway speed and the 150' rules that exist in NH.

My boating experience in other states is minimal, but I believe if we used signage that matches other staters it could be more effective. I'm OK with our unique buoy system, but orange and white cylinder buoys to mark speed limits and NWZ could be more effective than the red and white signs currently in use. Most of us on this forum know what we're doing, but that doesn't get through to those with different experience.

I can't say how many years it's been but when we had Marine Patrol Auxiliary, I thought their presence was valuable in helping to control many of the issues we currently whine about here.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Descant

I doubt we have numbers, but I'd suggest there are many folks out there who got their safety certificate in another state, USCG Auxiliary and Power Squadron. That is, jurisdictions where there is a significantly different approach to headway speed and the 150' rules that exist in NH.

My boating experience in other states is minimal, but I believe if we used signage that matches other staters it could be more effective. I'm OK with our unique buoy system, but orange and white cylinder buoys to mark speed limits and NWZ could be more effective than the red and white signs currently in use. Most of us on this forum know what we're doing, but that doesn't get through to those with different experience.

I can't say how many years it's been but when we had Marine Patrol Auxiliary, I thought their presence was valuable in helping to control many of the issues we currently whine about here.

I feel like for every person who doesn't know the rules there is another who just doesn't care about them.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I feel like for every person who doesn't know the rules there is another who just doesn't care about them.

I agree with you because a lot of these people I see can actually travel without making a wake if MP is around, Garcia. These signs do need to be more visible, Descant.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I feel like for every person who doesn't know the rules there is another who just doesn't care about them.

Exactly--if you think about how tricky it is for most to make it to that part of the lake, it's hard to accept that they they have not spent a chunk of time with the chart and related materials

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by sky's

im so glad I have zero desire to live on that "lake" Sandwich is nice and quiet

Sandwich is nice…and so is our lake. Very quiet and much different than Winni. So happy that our lake residents band together to keep any noise to a minimum and keep the lake healthy, clean, and swimmable!

We have no problem with people having fun and enjoying summer-that is why we all love the lakes region! But if you lose the health/beauty of the lake-we all lose.

[Jumbie98]

In response to the noise disturbance of the horns, I feel the bigger issue is the disturbance caused by watercraft not following the no wake rules causing erosion to our shorelines and the dangers to the swimmers in the water in this area. I have found even when informed of the no wake areas, while most apologize and reduce speed, some become very belligerant—Even had one gentleman inform me they had spoken to marine patrol and as long as they were “50 feet away” they were ok. People need to remember that its the journey not how fast they get there—if they want to speed around, they should go to larger areas of the lake!

[mlittlefield]

The area the horns, and now siren noises, are blown are in this yellow zone on the uploaded map. When I look at the navigation map I see only 2 no wake buoys in the area (they are marked on the map as the orange dots); one for going into Hanson Cove and one for going into Greens Basin. The shortest distance in the yellow zone is calculated at roughly 400ft according to google maps so how does that qualify for a No Wake Zone?

There is one other no wake buoy, not on the navigation map, that is near the large rock that everyone likes to jump off, so is that really an official buoy if it is not marked on the map? And is it just there for the area behind the rock, which is definitely less then 150ft? Why would a buoy in that location have anything to do with going into the yellow zone if the distance is more the 150ft in every other direction?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by mlittlefield

The area the horns, and now siren noises, are blown are in this yellow zone on the uploaded map. When I look at the navigation map I see only 2 no wake buoys in the area (they are marked on the map as the orange dots); one for going into Hanson Cove and one for going into Greens Basin. The shortest distance in the yellow zone is calculated at roughly 400ft according to google maps so how does that qualify for a No Wake Zone?

There is one other no wake buoy, not on the navigation map, that is near the large rock that everyone likes to jump off, so is that really an official buoy if it is not marked on the map? And is it just there for the area behind the rock, which is definitely less then 150ft? Why would a buoy in that location have anything to do with going into the yellow zone if the distance is more the 150ft in every other direction?

The bottom-most no wake buoy in your image is further up towards the entrance to the cove and is the one that reads "entire cove."

Your yellow area, though it might technically allow 150' distance, is still covered by the NWZ designation.

As mentioned, most of that area is impossible to be more than 150' from any one point, which is almost certainly the reason the NWZ was established for the whole area.

What program did you use to measure the 400', by the way, because it doesn't seem to be that far, especially when the rock outcropping is taken into consideration.

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[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

What program did you use to measure the 400', by the way, because it doesn't seem to be that far, especially when the rock outcropping is taken into consideration.

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Using Google maps and measuring from what I believe you refer to as the rock outcropping to the nearest point on Round Island is approximately 375 feet.

[Jumbie98]

Originally Posted by mlittlefield

The area the horns, and now siren noises, are blown are in this yellow zone on the uploaded map. When I look at the navigation map I see only 2 no wake buoys in the area (they are marked on the map as the orange dots); one for going into Hanson Cove and one for going into Greens Basin. The shortest distance in the yellow zone is calculated at roughly 400ft according to google maps so how does that qualify for a No Wake Zone?

There is one other no wake buoy, not on the navigation map, that is near the large rock that everyone likes to jump off, so is that really an official buoy if it is not marked on the map? And is it just there for the area behind the rock, which is definitely less then 150ft? Why would a buoy in that location have anything to do with going into the yellow zone if the distance is more the 150ft in every other direction?

Just like the area in Hanson Cove is wider than 400 ft it is still designated as a No Wake Zone. The area from the rock No wake Buoy all the way in to Greens Basin is designated as no wake—around Badger, Round and Big and Little Goodwin Islands as well.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Same in the Florida, even though boats are all on lifts and there are sea walls so no damage can really take place. Some people take that as their mission in life

The biggest differences that I notice in Florida are people go about 10-15 MPH in No Wake zones and in many places that seems acceptable. The other issue is that in New Hampshire we get comfortable with most people obeying the 150 foot rule. In Florida, a boat going 35 MPH will pass you 20 feet away and think nothing of it. I often wonder if they give any thought to what their wake does to other boats, I guess not!

I have noticed many times in the Weirs Channel boats going a little too fast have out of state registrations. Maybe their Captains are used to what is acceptable where they come from and don't realize we are a little different here.