Marine Patrol

paulie · 11-20-2006, 06:29 PM

I have spent the last 4 or 5 months on this forum and have yet to post anything. I really love the forum and I think it is very helpfull to all those who use the lake. But one thing turns up my nose.

Many of the threads I read start off as harmless questions folks have, whether it concerns safety on the lake, boating laws, etc.. But then there are those who try to contibute to the thread in a negative way and it always turns into a big argument over the MPs and how they do their job.

This summer I was stopped and ticketed by Marine Patrol for rafting. Hey, I broke the law... I just liked the spot and didnt think i'd get caught. Id like to see a reponse to this thread containing all those who were stopped by the MPs and EXACTLY what was so bad about the experience other than paying the fine.

... I hope I didnt hit a nerve

The Big Kahuna · 11-20-2006, 07:02 PM

The Marine Patrol do nothing on this lake to make the lake a safer place. Case in point, why are they in some cove writing you a rafting ticket, rather than making sure the traffic areas of the lake are safe, where boats are passing each other within the 150' of safe passage, at more than wake speed. They seem to migrate to where people tend to socialize and make sure there is no fun attempted. I have boated on this lake for over 20 years and have never seen an injury or accedent from rafting, yet that is what they spend the majority of their time preventing. I recieved a ticket for rafting once, I parked my boat, through out my lines and decided to take a nap. The Marine Patrol woke me up to tell me they were writing me a ticket for rafting because why I was sleeping, two other boats parked to close to me. I tried to explain it to them, and the boat next to me even admitted he came in and parked next to me, but they still wrote me a ticket. How about the time I went to see the fire works in Alton Bay with my inlaws. I had my mother inlaw, two sister inlaws with husbands and about 6 kids in my boat. I ran out of gas after the fire works, when I waved to a Marine Patrol boat to help me, they pulled aside my boat, told me there was nothing they could do
and kept on going, leaving me with a boat full of kids and my aging mother inlaw. I had to ask another boat to pull me to a near by dock to get my boat out of the way of other boats leaving Alton Bay. By the way, they also have no idea what 150 ft is as far as safe passage it, they think its 3 football fields if you ask one of them. Once you have been out on the lake for a longer period of time you will know why so many of us do not think that highly of them.

secondcurve · 11-20-2006, 07:16 PM

Paulie:

I find your post unusual and somewhat disconcerting. You start it off by saying that you don't like folks who post negative messages and then you bait the forum with a Marine Patrol question. "I hope I didn't hit a nerve" Are you sure? What are you trying to accomplish?

wires1999 · 11-20-2006, 07:37 PM

Have to agree with the Big Kahuna and this has been going on for yrs. now. I doubt if anything will ever change, no matter how many people complain. I actually got pulled over, with a boat full of guests this summer, in the channel because the very young MP felt my bow numbers weren't "contrasting enough." Black #'s on red paint, only been on that boat for 20 yrs. but I was more of a threat than the huge carver that nearly swamped us coming into the channel, I suppose. Unfortunatly these stories are alot more common than any good comments that MP does. I'd like to hear some nice stories about the MP, if anyone has some. They are totally different than the police officers we have around in the state. I think it must have something to do with the inexperience these kids have or with the management from above. To me anyway, they focus more on the harmless than the dangerous.

Airwaves · 11-20-2006, 07:50 PM

I think you will find a lot of the stories like the ones above regarding MP.

As long as they are forced to hire kids at $13 an hour during the summer instead of having a professional department then nothing will change.

How can MP have a professional department? Merge it with the NHSP and train full time professional troopers to handle marine issues. At the end of the season instead of laying off the $13 rent-a-cop, the MP trained troopers of the NHSP are redeployed within the NHSP dept.

JDeere · 11-20-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

I find your post unusual and somewhat disconcerting.

I agree! Seems as though the bait was set. Sure seemed odd to me but I knew airwaves would chime in with some negative comment about how NH conducts its affairs.

wires1999 · 11-20-2006, 08:13 PM

I agree Airwaves, tough situation. Not sure if I myself would be overzealous in regards to writing easy tickets, in easy water, to seeming harmless familys, to cut my teeth in law inforcement, which most of these kids are doing. I don't have any answers to these problems. Maybe it does stem from management. I would start these kids learning how to work with the good people, which 99% of them are good safe boaters, to tell them what they did wrong. Just their presence alone in congested areas help. I won't comment on this thread since it seems to always be here one way or another but all the hassling of rafters really bothers me. The season is so short and if you figure the actual time spent enjoying the water vs. the costs of owning a boat & slip, it doesn't make sense to be hassled.

Airwaves · 11-20-2006, 08:51 PM

JDeere wrote:

Quote:

Sure seemed odd to me but I knew airwaves would chime in with some negative comment about how NH conducts its affairs.

I don't see where recognizing a problem and suggesting a positive solution is a negative comment on how NH conducts its affairs. Where was the negative comment on the affairs of NH?

Skip · 11-20-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

JDeere wrote:

I don't see where recognizing a problem and suggesting a positive solution is a negative comment on how NH conducts its affairs. Where was the negative comment on the affairs of NH?

Right under your nose, I guess!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...$13 rent-a-cop...

And yes, I know...I know:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIRWAVES

...If I were doing a story about this certainly I would investigate both sides and beyond...

Airwaves · 11-20-2006, 09:25 PM

Since it appears what I write and suggest will be taken as an attack on the fine state of NH, I now withdraw from the forum.

GWC... · 11-20-2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

The Marine Patrol do nothing on this lake to make the lake a safer place.

You will see better without your blinders...

Ever use the buoys?

It's a thankless job; but someone has to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I now withdraw from the forum.

May I have that in writing?

What's that old saying about names will never hurt me?

Don't whimp-out. Think of a good reciprocation...

paulie · 11-20-2006, 11:02 PM

I didn't mean for this to be the same old rant from the same old people. I simply want people who have had good and just experience with marine patrol like myself and my brother, or even maybe someone who was helped by them. People need to read those sorts of things... I think my registration dollars are well spent. And to be honest with you, I find some of these negative stories hard to believe.

.... and in response to

Case in point, why are they in some cove writing you a rafting ticket, rather than making sure the traffic areas of the lake are safe

I have a bright yellow boat and have been seen in that spot 3 times (that i know of) and they have simply swung in and asked me to move. 3rd time I wasnt so lucky.

NightWing · 11-20-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I think you will find a lot of the stories like the ones above regarding MP.

As long as they are forced to hire kids at $13 an hour during the summer instead of having a professional department then nothing will change.

How can MP have a professional department? Merge it with the NHSP and train full time professional troopers to handle marine issues. At the end of the season instead of laying off the $13 rent-a-cop, the MP trained troopers of the NHSP are redeployed within the NHSP dept.

All well and good until those "professional troopers" are told that they will be responsible for enforcing the laws of the state on the water as they did on the road but they will be doing the job without a firearm. The stampede out the door will be deafening.

The term rent-a-cop is an insult. MP officers receive extensive boating law training and then must attend the NH Police Standards and Training Academy. They must meet the same training requirements. They train right beside those men and women who choose to serve in the State Police, County Sheriff, Fish and Game and numerous local police departments. They will stand tall and proud on graduation day and will take an oath to serve this fair state and all her citizens and visitors. The fact that many are young should be taken in a positive way, because these men and women are stepping up to the plate in a field that is somewhat exclusive, terribly demanding and as some of the posts here confirm, a thankless job ridiculed by many.

There are also a number of officers who return every year, get recertified again and perform their duties extremely well. Some have returned for over 20 years. Some actually are police officers from other departments.

As far as the $13.00/hr figure, I think if you research state jobs, you will find there are countless positions across the board that start at the same rate.

LIforrelaxin · 11-21-2006, 09:46 AM

I always find it interesting that people seem to have so many bad experiences with the Marine Patrol. I for one have been on the lake for over 20 years know, and my experiences with the Marine Patrol have always been good. But then again I don't act scared or shy away from them. I have had great conversations with many of them, when they have been tied up taking a break, having lunch. I have even had some rules that I didn't quite understand explained to me. And if you wonder why sometimes they can be a little less the hospitable on the weekends, Well I have never seen one of them finish there lunch. My conversations with them usually end with them throughing there sandwich on the dash while I untie there boat and they go after someone who has very noticably violated the 150' rule. And Hey even once or twice I have had the blue light turned on and had to explain myself. Now call luck if you will I have never been ticketed.

Here is my point get to know some of these guys you will find that most of them are out there doing the job, because they have a love for the water, just like the rest of us. And as someone else stated there are a lot of these guys that come back year after year. The last one I talked to had been working on the Marine Patrol for over 10 years.

Weirs guy · 11-21-2006, 12:20 PM

Here's a positive! During last Saturdays Turkey Plunge on Weirs Beach I felt a lot better with the MP boat sitting well within reach of all of us as we dove in. God forbid something were to have happened they would have been in the perfect spot to save someones butt!

lifeonthefarm · 11-21-2006, 01:46 PM

"The Marine Patrol do nothing on this lake to make the lake a safer place."

This is a joke right? What about the 3 drunks who crashed their boats into land this summer (Eagle Island, Light 80, Hurricane Island)? The MP was there to rescue their butts and make sure they got what they deserved (all charged with BWI). Surely there were numerous other intoxicated skippers who got stopped and arrested before something happend. Not to mention that there had to have been others who were deterred from driving their boats home after a hard night at the bar thanks to the MPs presence on the lake.

One night I was caught admiring one of the "AMBAR" patrol boats at the docks and had the pleasure of talking to a MP officer about the lake. He told me that the "night shift" on Winni is comprised of some of the Depts. best officers and are selected based on their performance only after working a number of years on the day shift. They train for an entire summer on patrol with other night officers and are required to know the location of every light buoy, point, cove, island, and summer camp on the lake before they are allowed to patrol alone. They are out there 7 nights a week for the entire summer responding to accidents, escorting lost boaters home or boats without proper lights.

It is a shame they don't publish a Marine Patrol Arrest Log because I am sure we would all be surprised by the number of drunk driving arrests that are made every weekend. Its definitly not the wild west, but no open container law sure makes it easy to have "one too many".

And I bet these guys were happy the MP was there...

From www.nhmarinepatrol.com

Seadoo · 11-21-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

The Marine Patrol do nothing on this lake to make the lake a safer place.

If MP do nothing on the lake then why is there a need for a speed limit? It is just going to be another "law" that they are not going to enforce.

The Big Kahuna · 11-21-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seadoo

If MP do nothing on the lake then why is there a need for a speed limit? It is just going to be another "law" that they are not going to enforce.

Horse Hockey! Not the point, who cares about the stupid speed limit, make it 5 mph for all I care. What I have a problem with is the one time I needed help from the Marine Patrol, I was told I couldn't get it. I had run out of gas, it was night time and I had a boat full of children and an elderly grandmother. If that happened to you how would you feel when they told you, sorry we can't help you that is not our job!

Well what is their job? Did I have to wait until someone broad-sided me and when my boat started to sink then they could have helped me. It's a degrace, it happened about 10 years ago and I can still remembered how I felt when I was told they wouldn't help me. I had to paddle a 27ft. boat full of people to shore, about 100 yrds. Do know how long that took, and how hard it was to do, and then once I got there had to walk about 3 miles to get some gas, and it was by act of chance that I was able to get some. I didn't get my family home until 2:00 AM. I still get upset when I think about it.

I know they save people, right time right place, but do you know how many people I have saved on this lake in the last 20 years. About 10, because there sail boat tipped over, or they ran out of gas and were drifting. And you know why it was me that saved them, because Marine Patrol was no were around!

bigdog · 11-21-2006, 09:17 PM

One has to ask Kahuna, "why did you run out of gas" ? Planning ?
I was taught, always have 1/3 tank of gas, to get where you're going, 1/3 to get back, and 1/3 in reserve! This rule has never failed me, and I've never run out of gas..... Hopefully, I'll never be in that situation.

I understand what you're saying about your situation Kahuna, the M.P. should have helped or sent for assistance to get you some gas, they didn't !
Shame on them ! But the event was 10 years in the past, I say "let it go".
Maybe just bad judgement call by the M.P. ?

There is good and bad in the M.P., but you find that in any organization!
However, the good the M.P. does outweighs the negative. I've been stopped by the M.P. in the past, for a violation, nothing serious, but they pointed out something that I wasn't aware about. In that case, they were right, and I learned something from the event.

They do need to "back off" on trivial issues, which appears as harassment, and concentrate more on serious situations that occur around the Lake. Maybe more education and dealing with the public would help their image ?
They definitely need to work on their "people skills" !

GWC... · 11-21-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

Well what is their job?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bureau of Marine Patrol

The Marine Patrol’s mission is to provide a safe, enjoyable, and environmentally responsible use for all of the State’s public waters. Through its three sections, operations, aids to navigation, and the Boating Education Program, the Bureau provides a comprehensive Marine Safety Program, places over 5,000 aids to navigation, and offers boating education for all recreation and commercial boat operators.

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...rol/index.html

Now, regarding fuel or a tow, a situation on land that would involve contacting a towing service for assistance, help is closer than most realize, 24/7 during the boating season at the Lake…

Who ya gonna call?????????????????????????

Larger version:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...512&perpage=30

and the answer is...
http://www.nhmobilemarine.com/
Join online:
https://www.boatus-insurance.com/new...N.asp?WT10564W

http://www.seatow.com/
Join online:
https://secure.seatow.com/onlineapp/joinapp.aspx

kjbathe · 11-21-2006, 10:05 PM

When did it become MP's job to tow everyone home that ran out of gas? Isn't that what towboatus is for? I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a State Trooper with a vehicle in tow.... Nope, can't recall a single instance.

I'm not unsympathetic to those that run of out of gas -- heck, we towed someone in on our last day out this season -- but to knock a public safety function for not being AAA of the wet, that's not valid.

On this Thanksgiving I'm thankful that we have a big lake, the means to enjoy it and Marine Patrol working in partnership with the rest of us to help keep it safe and enjoyable for both boaters and property owners.

Coolbreeze · 11-21-2006, 10:25 PM

I also am thankful for the Lake and the Marine Patrol. I don't always agree with their protocol on the lake but...it is what it is and quite frankly if you don't like it... boat somewhere else. I won't miss you and I'm sure there are others that feel the same way. AND Paulie, being told three times not to do something by an officer not only is stupid on your part, but you wasted his time for potentially "more important" duties. I hope the fine was stiff.

NightWing · 11-21-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

Horse Hockey! Not the point, who cares about the stupid speed limit, make it 5 mph for all I care. What I have a problem with is the one time I needed help from the Marine Patrol, I was told I couldn't get it. I had run out of gas, it was night time and I had a boat full of children and an elderly grandmother. If that happened to you how would you feel when they told you, sorry we can't help you that is not our job!

Well what is their job? Did I have to wait until someone broad-sided me and when my boat started to sink then they could have helped me. It's a degrace, it happened about 10 years ago and I can still remembered how I felt when I was told they wouldn't help me. I had to paddle a 27ft. boat full of people to shore, about 100 yrds. Do know how long that took, and how hard it was to do, and then once I got there had to walk about 3 miles to get some gas, and it was by act of chance that I was able to get some. I didn't get my family home until 2:00 AM. I still get upset when I think about it.

I know they save people, right time right place, but do you know how many people I have saved on this lake in the last 20 years. About 10, because there sail boat tipped over, or they ran out of gas and were drifting. And you know why it was me that saved them, because Marine Patrol was no were around!

Were you offered a call to a tower and when you found out it might cost a couple of hundred bucks you declined, but wanted a freebie from MP? Did you expect the MP to tow you halfway across the lake to your slip but the officer said he would only tow you straight to shore?

Towing a vessel takes the Patrol unit out of service. Even in an emergency; boat going for the rocks, high winds and so forth, the MP unit would only be obligated to tow to safety. Maybe only twenty feet away, where you could drop your own anchor to prevent being blown into the rocks.

There are several towers on the lake and they make their living by towing for dollars. Every time an MP unit tows a vessel, some tower is going to call and complain. That is not a good way for MP to establish a working relationship with towers and marinas on the lake.

pmj · 11-22-2006, 05:24 AM

I have not ever had a problem with MP but i do agree that often I have seen unsafe situations on the lake...and the old adage...where are they when you need them?? comes to mind. That said, however, it could happen on the highways, also..They can't be everywhere at once.

I have one experience to share. My husband and I were coming out of Wolfeboro harbor one fairly windy day and got ready to set sail. Of course we LOVE wind

. I was at the helm and he went up on deck to raise the mainsail. He had his life jacket on. We spotted an MP in the distance and he started to motor towards us. He idled down and just sat..keeping watch. He motored away after my hubby was safe in the cockpit. I felt good about that. With a sailboat there is always a risk of going over board when on deck raising sails, especially if there is a sudden gust of wind or a mechanical problem.

As far as running out of gas, towboatus is a worthwhile membership and an oar or 2 can come in real handy. Been there,done that

.

BBS2 · 11-22-2006, 08:54 AM

We've had several fine experiences with the MP.

The first was like pmj's..we were coming out of Fay's and the MP stopped to see if we had our pfd's on. He smiled and gave us the thumbs up then followed us out until we got under sail.

The second was when a windsurfer went down in the Broads and took a little too long getting up. I called to let them know and the dispatcher said they would send someone right away. Several minutes later the surfer started for shore and got onto the beach. My husband went to check on him and he said he was OK. I called dispatch and told them that and she thanked me for letting them know she would call the boat back.

Third time...Fay's was coming to take our boat off the mooring to repair a broken spreader. Unfortunately they came in an unmarked boat. So a guy gets on our boat, starts the motor and off they go. My husband got a call at work from the MP(on the lake at the time with the guys right there!!) to check if their story was true. What public service!

I've often seen them stopping boaters on the Broads for various reasons. Too much Lake, too few officers.

Many thanks to all in public service, they are too often under appreciated.

Happy Thankskgiving Everyone...be safe...have fun.

NHskier · 11-22-2006, 05:00 PM

My wife and I were out on our first boating experience on Winnipesaukee taking an in-water test ride on a boat we were considering purchasing. The marina's temporary registration was in place on the windscreen and one of their staff was with us for instruction, etc.

This was September 2 and we were feeling the effects of hurricane(?) Ernesto so it was blowing pretty good. Realistically it was not a day we'd choose to go boating - very windy, lots of chop and overcast & cool - but a good test day never-the-less.

The boat checked out fine, though the weather conditions led us to instead choose a bigger, more stable boat (23' instead of 20').

But the highlight of the test was my getting pulled over (for lack of a better term) by NH Marine Patrol way out in Sanders Bay and getting yelled at for not keeping to the right in a head-on situation. The officer apparently didn't notice that we were stationary (had stopped and were discussing the boat with the marina guy out with us), and were therefore the stand-on boat. Not to mention there were virtually no other boats even in sight and the entire bay was wide open for maneuvering.

Everyone we related the story to that day all had the same response - since there was hardly anyone else out he was just bored. And this was not a young guy.

Since I've now got that first stop under my belt, I figure I'm all set from here on out.

NHskier

JDeere · 11-22-2006, 05:29 PM

Not sure if I am right or not but unless you were at anchor you are the same as any boat that is under way. So MP was right. I think!?

Silver Duck · 11-22-2006, 05:48 PM

I've got to more or less side with the Big Kahuna on this one. I agree other folks that the MP is not, and probably shouldn't be, a towing service.

But, the circumstances were that this was a disabled boat, full of kids, at night, in the middle of a post-fireworks traffic crunch.

Those people were clearly in danger and would have been much safer if the MP had stayed with them with flashers going until a tow boat arrived. The MP might even have had his dispatcher call one.

So far as I know, that's what a NH State Trooper would have done in an equivalent situation on the highway; I can't imagine why the MP would behave differently

...

Silver Duck

NightWing · 11-22-2006, 06:36 PM

Without both sides being presented by the actual people involved, it is impossible to determine if the MP or the boater was wrong. It may have been a misunderstanding or a situation reported here differently than the actual event.

Again, the question of "Do you want us to call a towing service?" may have been asked and when advised that the cost might be a few hundred dollars, the boater declined. Perhaps the MP unit said he could tow him directly to shore where he would have to get his own help was not what the boater wanted to hear, but instead wanted a tow back to his marina. Another consideration was that there was not a true danger to the boat or its occupants and they could safely anchor there until help arrived. Major inconvenience and a crappy way to end a voyage? Yup, big time. Justification to criticize the officer? No.

I don't think that any MP unit would abandon a disabled vessel if that vessel was truly in danger. In this case, 10 years after the fact, the poster claims he had to paddle 100 yards to shore. 300 feet. Then he had to walk 3 miles to get gas. He WAS able to help himself. Yes, it took time. Now, suppose the MP had towed him that 300 feet and left him there. Would he be happy? Probably not because he was 3 miles away from fuel. Perfect example of a stranded boater thinking the MP should act as a towing or shuttle service. The MP certainly would have called for a tower or offered to contact a friend or a marina for them. If the boater copped attitude, then "Have a nice day!"

John A. Birdsall · 11-22-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjbathe

When did it become MP's job to tow everyone home that ran out of gas? Isn't that what towboatus is for? I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a State Trooper with a vehicle in tow.... Nope, can't recall a single instance.

I'm not unsympathetic to those that run of out of gas -- heck, we towed someone in on our last day out this season -- but to knock a public safety function for not being AAA of the wet, that's not valid.

On this Thanksgiving I'm thankful that we have a big lake, the means to enjoy it and Marine Patrol working in partnership with the rest of us to help keep it safe and enjoyable for both boaters and property owners.

************************************************** ****
I think that the tow boats on the lake have not been around for ten years.. I think its only been maybe three years. I can recall when you run out of gas or break down hold up a rope and someone would tow you, give you assistance.

It is my opinion that the Marine Patrol are doing the best job that can be done, with what they have. As far as rafters go, perhaps they are bothering you because the neigbors on shore do not appreciate people coming on their property and releiving themselves on their property that they are paying absorbing taxes on. Or the water is not a place to relieve yourself.

Aquadeziac · 11-22-2006, 08:52 PM

Lets see....In his first post Kahuna says he had to find someone to tow his 27' boat to shore. Then in his last post he had to paddle his 27' boat to shore. Which was it? I know I wouldn't have forgotten facts of an ordeal like that. Maybe certain other facts are not being remembered clearly too. eh?

Maybe by his next post the boat will have been caught in a storm and washed ashore on a deserted island where they all suffered the past 10 years causing this MP fixation/syndrome.

Pineedles · 11-22-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulie

Id like to see a response to this thread containing all those who were stopped by the MPs and EXACTLY what was so bad about the experience other than paying the fine.

As the original post was to tell of an experience of being stopped by the MPs, I'll relate an experience that my son's friend had on the lake this past summer. Exiting the harbor at Little One Mile, my Son's friend, on a Sea Doo, 80 hp. was pulled over by the MP who's skiff was "parked" in the channel. There is Little more than 200 ft. between the makers do he was pulled over for the 150' rule, having exited the channel at more than headway speed.

My son's friend was wrong and violated the law, but I have a problem with the way in which he was entrapped. It was a deliberate "speed trap" and was done with the intent to trap people. The MP was not in trouble nor was he signaling that he had engine trouble, he was there to entrap. BTW my son's friend is a town cop in CT and the MP wasn't dissuaded by his badge. I say OK to the ticket that was written, but MPs should be a little more aggressive to find more egregious violators.

Paugus Bay Resident · 11-22-2006, 09:37 PM

Bottom line is, for better or for worse, MPs obligation is to protect the safety and wellbeing of boaters (that's what laws are intended to do) It is entirely their discretion as to what is a "issue" that needs their attention. They are human, they have judgment calls which we may or may not agree with. I've had issues both positive and not. We can *&^tch about everything in life or get used to the reality that not everything goes the way we think it should. Welcome to life. Sorry for the rant, but lately this forum is getting way to negative for me.

Dave R · 11-23-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

Not sure if I am right or not but unless you were at anchor you are the same as any boat that is under way. So MP was right. I think!?

You cannot "keep right" if you are stationary. Being stationary made them a "vessel not under command", I think. Other vessels have to avoid hitting a vessel not under command.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 12:10 PM

Now, regarding fuel or a tow, a situation on land that would involve contacting a towing service for assistance, help is closer than most realize, 24/7 during the boating season at the Lake…[/QUOTE]

These tow services on the lake were not available 10 years ago. You had to call one of the Marina's for help and since it was late at night after the fire-works, there was no one to call. As far as why I ran out of gas, it turns out I had a bad sending gage on my fuel tank, thought I had plenty of gas.

You are right about one thing, they should have helped me. As far as letting go, they have not shown me anything over the past 10 years that would want me to let go. I know they do some good things out there, but they don't make up for the terible things they do.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

It was a deliberate "speed trap" and was done with the intent to trap people. The MP was not in trouble nor was he signaling that he had engine trouble, he was there to entrap. BTW my son's friend is a town cop in CT and the MP wasn't dissuaded by his badge.

The Marine Patrol has been setting up traps more and more each year. They are using a spy boat in the channel, they sit at the far end of Channel Marine and watch boats coming in and out of the Naswa. They log the bow numbers and check them against the time you docked to the time you leave. If they think you have been there long enough, they radio ahead so that when you leave the channel, another patrol boat stops them. They do it on all the major holiday weekends and motorcycle weekend. So if you are planning on stopping at the Naswa, go to the end of the channel first and see if they are sitting there. If they are and you were planning on having a few, you might want to have one only.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

Lets see....In his first post Kahuna says he had to find someone to tow his 27' boat to shore. Then in his last post he had to paddle his 27' boat to shore. Which was it? I know I wouldn't have forgotten facts of an ordeal like that. Maybe certain other facts are not being remembered clearly too. eh?

Maybe by his next post the boat will have been caught in a storm and washed ashore on a deserted island where they all suffered the past 10 years causing this MP fixation/syndrome.

That is correct, I was given a tow to get me out of the on coming fire works traffic. Then it was up to me to row the boat to the dock. What is your point, are you trying to say it never happened. I got news for you, it happened and I hope it happens to you so you can experience it for yourself. As far as this forgive and forget sentiment, forget it! They had their chance to make things right, first impressions is what we remember.

Pineedles · 11-24-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

They log the bow numbers and check them against the time you docked to the time you leave. If they think you have been there long enough, they radio ahead so that when you leave the channel, another patrol boat stops them.

BK< I'm not sure I understand; is there a time limit that the MP imposes for docking at the NASWA?

GWC... · 11-24-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

The Marine Patrol do nothing on this lake to make the lake a safer place.

It does seem that MP does in fact attempt to make the Lake safer, according to your post…

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

They are using a spy boat in the channel, they sit at the far end of Channel Marine and watch boats coming in and out of the Naswa. They log the bow numbers and check them against the time you docked to the time you leave. If they think you have been there long enough, they radio ahead so that when you leave the channel, another patrol boat stops them. They do it on all the major holiday weekends and motorcycle weekend. So if you are planning on stopping at the Naswa, go to the end of the channel first and see if they are sitting there. If they are and you were planning on having a few, you might want to have one only.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

BK< I'm not sure I understand; is there a time limit that the MP imposes for docking at the NASWA?

No time limit, they are making a judgement if they think you have been there long enough to have to much to drink, they come after you and find a reason to pull you over. I know several people that this has happened to.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

Lets see....In his first post Kahuna says he had to find someone to tow his 27' boat to shore. Then in his last post he had to paddle his 27' boat to shore. Which was it? I know I wouldn't have forgotten facts of an ordeal like that. Maybe certain other facts are not being remembered clearly too. eh?

Maybe by his next post the boat will have been caught in a storm and washed ashore on a deserted island where they all suffered the past 10 years causing this MP fixation/syndrome.

I did get a tow out of the way of traffic, I then had to row the 100 yards to shore. What are you trying to say Aquadeziac, that this didn't happen to me. It is well documented since I sent a letter to the Union Leader, who posted the story in the paper the following week, and a copy of the letter I sent to the head of marine patrol, signed by my mother inlaw and sister inlaw and her husband, to tell him what happened. To this day I have not received a call back or letter about the situation. If you do own a boat I hope this happens to you so you can experience how we felt that night.

PaulS · 11-24-2006, 02:05 PM

Isn't it better not to have too much to drink, whether the MP is there or not?

NightWing · 11-24-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

I did get a tow out of the way of traffic, I then had to row the 100 yards to shore.

BK, you are somewhat sidestepping the question/issue here. WHO towed you out of the way of traffic? Was it the MP? If it was, their obligation to you was completed after your boat was towed clear of traffic. If MP didn't tow you but another boater did, then help WAS available. Did the MP offer to call someone in your behalf? Did you refuse a call to a marina or boat dealer? Even though those places might have been closed, MP could have a list of emergency numbers for them and a tow might have been negotiated. Like it or not, MP is not the AAA of the water.

It is a shame your family had to endure that unpleasant event, but boating can be iffy at best. Preplanning can take some of the sting out of experiences like yours. Making sure all your gauges work and having them serviced if needed. Having your engine tuned and your drive unit serviced annually will help keep the tow boat away. Your fuel gauge didn't crap out that night, I am sure. If you had any time on the boat, you should have known how long the fuel would last and where the gauge should read after a given length of time.

A cell phone might have been a good thing to have, along with a VHF radio. Flares are worthwhile at night when all else fails. I hope you are better prepared now 10 years later.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulS

Isn't it better not to have too much to drink, whether the MP is there or not?

Yes, but that is not the point. If you go in and have dinner, by the time you get seated, eat and get back to your boat it has been a couple of hours. Now when you leave the Marine Patrol is following you out and looking to stop you for any reason, that is a violation of my Civil Liberties (IV Amendment rights), it needs to stop, they act like some par-military organization that thinks they can do what ever they want. Next time they stop me for no reason I am going to hit them with the biggest law suite they have ever seen. That will put an end to the way they completely disregard due process.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

BK, you are somewhat sidestepping the question/issue here. WHO towed you out of the way of traffic? Was it the MP? If it was, their obligation to you was completed after your boat was towed clear of traffic. If MP didn't tow you but another boater did, then help WAS available. Did the MP offer to call someone in your behalf? Did you refuse a call to a marina or boat dealer? Even though those places might have been closed, MP could have a list of emergency numbers for them and a tow might have been negotiated. Like it or not, MP is not the AAA of the water.

It is a shame your family had to endure that unpleasant event, but boating can be iffy at best. Preplanning can take some of the sting out of experiences like yours. Making sure all your gauges work and having them serviced if needed. Having your engine tuned and your drive unit serviced annually will help keep the tow boat away. Your fuel gauge didn't crap out that night, I am sure. If you had any time on the boat, you should have known how long the fuel would last and where the gauge should read after a given length of time.

A cell phone might have been a good thing to have, along with a VHF radio. Flares are worthwhile at night when all else fails. I hope you are better prepared now 10 years later.

I was towed out of traffic by a guy in a 21ft Bayliner, he was affraid to go to close to the docks because he didn't know the area, it was night time so he set me a drift apporx 100 yrds from the nearest docs. Ran into him in Wolfboro the next summer, I bought a round of ice creams for his wife and kids. He should have applied for the Marine Patrol, because if he was one of them he probably would have given me a tow.

The Marine Patrol didn't offer to call any one, they told me that they had to stay where they were because of the traffic and it was not their responsibility to help when someone runs out of gas.

I didn't have a hand held cell phone at the time, if I did who was I going to call at 12:00 at night, what Marina is open until then. There was no Tow Boat service on the lake, they have only been around the last 5 years or so.

Why I ran out of gas had nothing to do with the condition of the boat, it was brand new. Turns out the gage was broken and needed to be replaced. Guess how I found that out, I RAN OUT OF GAS!

Lastly, Marine Patrol didn't do a thing! They left a boat full of kids and family to drift and fend for themselve's. What is it you don't get! IT WAS A TERRIBLE THING TO DO TO SOMEONE!

NightWing · 11-24-2006, 04:22 PM

BK, why don't you just say what you wanted/expected MP to do? Tow you to a gas dock? Where? How far away? What about the traffic detail they were assigned? Abandon that and let dozens, maybe hundreds of boats go wild while the MP unit was tied up towing your one boat back to wherever? Your expectations and attitude may have influenced the officer, but their policy is still not to tow boats unless life, limb or property are at risk, and only tow far enough to remove the vessel from danger. The fact that another boater gave you a tow is evidence that help was available. If that boater would have towed you to shore, would you have been happy then? You claimed that gas was three miles away and you had to walk, so your problems wouldn't be over at shore. Was that the responsibility of the boater who helped you?

Coolbreeze · 11-24-2006, 04:47 PM

BK, you sound pretty disturbed for such a seemingly minor thing. I understand your feelings about the MP and don't necessarily agree that your point is correct. If I was put in your position that night, I might feel differently.The MP made a judgement call that night and felt there were potentially more important issues to come at the end of the fireworks, than you. I think you aren't going to gain anything by posting your grudge here on the forum, as most viewers and posters, as I read are seasoned boaters on the lake and understand what happened is par for the course. Move on to more important things and learn from your experiences. You are not going to change anything regarding the MP nor gain sympathy for your "crisis" from most of us readers. I bet you check your guages and all your gear before you head out on the lake at night after this experience now, don't you?

Silver Duck · 11-24-2006, 05:03 PM

Nightwing

I'm curious; since you stated the MP's policy, do you have access to the MP's written SOPs for various situations? Or, perhaps Skip might chime in, here, if he does.

A 10 year old incident is kind of stale to get upset over, but it would be useful to know what kind of help to expect from the MP under their current protocols.

And, yes, I belong to Sea Tow (have since they became available on the lake). I have both their national and local response numbers programmed into my cell phone (as well at the MP's phone number.)

But, I admit that I would be somewhat shocked to be abandoned to drift around in the dark until Sea Tow arrived!

Silver Duck

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

Nightwing

I'm curious; since you stated the MP's policy, do you have access to the MP's written SOPs for various situations? Or, perhaps Skip might chime in, here, if he does.

A 10 year old incident is kind of stale to get upset over, but it would be useful to know what kind of help to expect from the MP under their current protocols.

And, yes, I belong to Sea Tow (have since they became available on the lake). I have both their national and local response numbers programmed into my cell phone (as well at the MP's phone number.)

But, I admit that I would be somewhat shocked to be abandoned to drift around in the dark until Sea Tow arrived!

Silver Duck

I do have Sea Tow and Boat USA programed in my cell phone, great point. That was 10 years ago when cell phones where not that available and Sea Tow and Boat us were not.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

BK, why don't you just say what you wanted/expected MP to do? Tow you to a gas dock? Where? How far away? What about the traffic detail they were assigned? Abandon that and let dozens, maybe hundreds of boats go wild while the MP unit was tied up towing your one boat back to wherever? Your expectations and attitude may have influenced the officer, but their policy is still not to tow boats unless life, limb or property are at risk, and only tow far enough to remove the vessel from danger. The fact that another boater gave you a tow is evidence that help was available. If that boater would have towed you to shore, would you have been happy then? You claimed that gas was three miles away and you had to walk, so your problems wouldn't be over at shore. Was that the responsibility of the boater who helped you?

What I wanted from the Marine Patrol was some guidance. It was late, there was so much boat traffic I was afraid to be drifting in the area I was in, I thought another boat might hit us. I did not expect them to take me to the boat docks because I knew they were probably closed at 12:00. When you say what did I expect? Great question, I did not know what to expect from asking them for help. They drove over to me to see why I wasn't moving. As far as my attitude, it was friendly and concerning. I needed help, I had a boat full of kids that and an elderly grandmother, How else do you think I was acting? I was with my family, out watching the fire works. I guess I assumed when they came over to me they would help me, I was wrong. They told me they couldn't help, it was not their responsibility, pushed off and left me there, that was there answer to the question, what did I expect. I can answer that question now, NOTHING! Because that is what I got. I would have taken a tow to shore if it was offered. As far as having to get gas once on shore, that is what it is, I didn't mind getting some exercise walking to and from to get gas. What is it you don't understand, they came over to me, I told them I was out of gas, they told me they couldn't help me, and they left! Everyone on the boat that day still can not believe the way Marine Patrol just left us out there. If I had been hit by another boat it would have been criminal on their part.

The Big Kahuna · 11-24-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolbreeze

BK, you sound pretty disturbed for such a seemingly minor thing. I understand your feelings about the MP and don't necessarily agree that your point is correct. If I was put in your position that night, I might feel differently.The MP made a judgement call that night and felt there were potentially more important issues to come at the end of the fireworks, than you. I think you aren't going to gain anything by posting your grudge here on the forum, as most viewers and posters, as I read are seasoned boaters on the lake and understand what happened is par for the course. Move on to more important things and learn from your experiences. You are not going to change anything regarding the MP nor gain sympathy for your "crisis" from most of us readers. I bet you check your guages and all your gear before you head out on the lake at night after this experience now, don't you?

The next time you are left stranded out on the lake with a boat full of kids, at night, with boats coming at you from every direction rushing out after the fireworks, your out of gas. With the boat rocking, the kids crying and your mother inlaw asking you to do something, ask yourself how Minor a thing that felt like at the time. I have learned from my experience, I have not run out gas since, I do make sure all you equipment is in fine working order, and most important, I don't count on anything from the Marine Patrol. Oh, and I like the great elephant, NEVER FORGET!

lifeonthefarm · 11-24-2006, 07:20 PM

Who are the ones they are catching when they set these "traps" or sit by the Weirs Channel? The morons who don't understand or respect the 150' law... and I can bet that most of the ones they catch probably have never heard of it. Just don't give them a reason to stop you and you will be all set.

As far as "spying" on the NASWA I am sure that is not their intentions because the Weirs Channel is obviously the busiest part of the lake and its been said 100x before that people seemingly start to behave when the MP is around.

They are doing their job and your friends who got stopped after coming from the NASWA probably had a light out, expired decal, non-contrasting bow #s... or any of a hundred LEGAL reasons why they were stopped. I dont see any difference between that and being stopped for having a plate light out on the highway, and frankly if someone gets arrested for BWI because of it then the lake was made a safer place thanks to the MP who took the time to find a less obvious infraction.

wires1999 · 11-24-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeonthefarm

Who are the ones they are catching when they set these "traps" or sit by the Weirs Channel? The morons who don't understand or respect the 150' law... and I can bet that most of the ones they catch probably have never heard of it. Just don't give them a reason to stop you and you will be all set.

As far as "spying" on the NASWA I am sure that is not their intentions because the Weirs Channel is obviously the busiest part of the lake and its been said 100x before that people seemingly start to behave when the MP is around.

They are doing their job and your friends who got stopped after coming from the NASWA probably had a light out, expired decal, non-contrasting bow #s... or any of a hundred LEGAL reasons why they were stopped. I dont see any difference between that and being stopped for having a plate light out on the highway, and frankly if someone gets arrested for BWI because of it then the lake was made a safer place thanks to the MP who took the time to find a less obvious infraction.

I can't believe your lack of intelligence, how does it improve the quality of anyones safety by pulling someone over in the channel and going threw the life vests, horn, bell, fire ex. and all the other crap involved by this 19 yr. old want a be, when my bow #'s weren't contrasting enough. Black letters, red boat. They hassle people plain & simple, get it through your head, wether you've not been stop or not, I don't care, it was totally unnecessary, had a boat full of guests, kids included. What kind of example did that set. They are not doing there job correctly and I will not believe otherwise.

NightWing · 11-24-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wires1999

I can't believe your lack of intelligence, how does it improve the quality of anyones safety by pulling someone over in the channel and going threw the life vests, horn, bell, fire ex. and all the other crap involved by this 19 yr. old want a be, when my bow #'s weren't contrasting enough. Black letters, red boat. They hassle people plain & simple, get it through your head, wether you've not been stop or not, I don't care, it was totally unnecessary, had a boat full of guests, kids included. What kind of example did that set. They are not doing there job correctly and I will not believe otherwise.

Correct spelling, punctuation, tense and all those basic grammatical rules would go far to add credibility to your statements.

Rage does not read well when mixed with carelessness. If you can't spell it, you can't sell it.

NightWing · 11-24-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wires1999

Can't figure out what I'm trying to say, dummy?

Yes I can. It's pathetic.

Coolbreeze · 11-24-2006, 10:52 PM

Hey BK,
I can imagine now how you felt that night, based on what I've seen coming out of Wolfeboro after the fireworks, I agree that it must have been pretty scarey for the kids. I am not knocking you, I feel at a minimum that if I was the officer that I would stay near to you until a tow came to help you. Sometime just being there adds a degree of safety. Travel the New Jersey turnpike at rush hour, if you see a car with a flat or disabled along the road the trooper will push you out of the lane of traffic in his car and sit in his car behind you until help arrives. The trooper rarely gets out of his cruiser as a safety measure, they use their Pa system in the car to communicate. I feel if you got anywhere near this type of treatment you wouldn't be so pissed at the Mps and...as you said...never forget. See you on the lake next summer and if you do run out of gas, and I see you sitting there...I'll tow you. Why? It is the right thing to do, thats why.

ApS · 11-25-2006, 05:13 AM

I've been pulled over four times by the Marine Patrol.

1) 'Sailed over in my new sailboat to watch a boater get ticketed on a busy day—and got "pulled over" myself! I didn't know of the "new" law regarding non-powered sailboat registration, and I talked my way out of the ticket.

2) Stuck without wind in another sailboat very early in the season, and was the only boat on the lake. I was given a written warning by Officer Westegren regarding the specific law which wasn't in the handbook, but was available online. I wrote to Director Barrett with documentation. The Director replied in writing, saying I was right on the law. (Officer Westegren is no "kid", and is a former U.S. Marine.)

3) Out rowing my boat for exercise on a weekend, and an MP came over to see what was "wrong".

4) Stopped again this year without a registration sticker displayed (no other boats out, again), and got "the drill". NO FIRE EXTINGUISHER???? I pointed in the direction where it should have been mounted, and he mistook a red bug-spray can for it.

Fortunately, my boat was full of collected, wet, floating Spring debris, and he let me go.

I've never been stopped by an outboard-powered MP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

"...No time limit, they are making a judgement if they think you have been there long enough to have to much to drink, they come after you and find a reason to pull you over. I know several people that this has happened to."

Back in 2000 or 2001, the MPs made a REALLY big media deal about DUI enforcement on the lake. Still, I'm wondering if the problem is the MP's or NASWA's.

Phantom · 11-25-2006, 09:56 AM

Okay -- I've tried to stay away from this thread the best I could -- but the Naswa (trapping) set me over the edge.

I personally HIGHLY doubt that MP sits there and actually "Logs" in bow #'s of arriving patrons -- my god, have you ever seen what that place looks like on a sunny, hot Sunday-- let alone a Holiday!! They are not complete idiots -- they are fully aware that they would have a much better (as you say) entrapment rate if they simply drifted off Braun Bay (and I know thats another whole thread unto itself --SO DON'T start).

I actually find it comforting that there is a patrol boat "lurking" around the establishment when it becomes extremely busy. It hopefully will make someone think twice before getting behind the helm and pass the keys over or better yet -- take some additional time and have a few soda's before setting out. Perhaps if they were "lurking" off the Naswa a few years back the Littlefield incident might (who knows) have been averted!!! I find MP actions (in this senerio) no more offensive or different than when a cruiser sits outside the High School dance!!

Further, in my humble opinion -- it gives them the perfect place (the channel) and opportunity to check (visually) for obvious boating regulations i.e Life Jackets on kids, no one hanging/sitting on the bow rails, current registration decal, overloaded boats etc etc etc --- for my money thats a good thing.

Finally, to the patrol boat that is nine times out of ten at the end of the Channell (Wiers side) on week-ends --- I have to tell you that he's there, and has been there, nearly every week-end for the past 20 years!! Our cottage looks right out onto this area! Their stops are for the obvious -- the 150' rule -- and I must admit they take particular notice (perhaps too much) of the Jet ski's versus boats!! I think your notion that they radio ahead from a "spy" boat is giving them a little to much credit for deviousness (if that's even a word)

I'm done ............. Don't bother to tear this post apart for I won't be responding .................. Marine Patrol for all of us is a love/hate relationship ... no different than your local or State Police. When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911?

Silver Duck · 11-25-2006, 10:47 AM

Phantom

Don't be looking for me to tear your post apart; anything that gets a drunken operator out from behind the wheel before they have a chance to hurt somebody is just fine with me!

Nor do I consider hanging out in Braun Bay, etc. watching for instances of BUI to be entrapment.

As for monitoring the channel, it's definitely better to takle care of getting kids off the bow and into PFDs before the boat throttles up. (Though it might be better not to make the actual stop in the narrowest part of the channel unless there's something really dangerous going on.)

The MP is also welcome to board my boat for a safety inspection any time they wish. If they ever find something safety-related that I've overlooked, I'll figure that they've done me a service and are owed a sincere thank you!

Silver Duck

NightWing · 11-25-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I didn't know of the "new" law regarding non-powered sailboat registration, and I talked my way out of the ticket.

That law is not "new", it has been around for many years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

2) Stuck without wind in another sailboat very early in the season, and was the only boat on the lake. I was given a written warning by Officer Westegren regarding the specific law which wasn't in the handbook, but was available online. I wrote to Director Barrett with documentation. The Director replied in writing, saying I was right on the law. (Officer Westegren is no "kid", and is a former U.S. Marine.)

That officer hasn't been an MP for several years. Please cite the exact law you are referring to.

SBC · 11-26-2006, 12:24 AM

When is the last time you saw any landside police unit tow a car to a gas station?

BK and Wired seem to have a problem with authority figures.

Sounds like Phantom has summed it up quite well:

"...When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911?"

If you play by the rules then you should have nothing to worry about. It's your responsibility to know the rules before you go out to play. Some just need to grow up and learn the rules.

ApS · 11-26-2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

That law is not "new", it has been around for many years.

Well.......So have I!

I'm curious just when that law became "new". Maybe in the crush of the mid-80's

, as I'd been sailing happily without numbers, stickers, or emissions for years prior. (Even before the MPs had Marine Patrol embossed on their sides, and in years when they would tow you.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

That officer hasn't been an MP for several years. Please cite the exact law you are referring to.

Too bad. Officer Westegren, and all the other MPs I've encountered have been very professional. (And should have mentioned that earlier). The law was RSA 270 E:4.

Director Barrett's letter got laminated and is now secured in the boat. When the boat gets unwrapped in April (March?

), I'll scan it in here. It's nice to "win one"—and I'll share it.

Lakegeezer · 11-26-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBC

Some just need to grow up and learn the rules.

The problem with rules is that they are often purchased by political action committees. It is hard to have respect for some rules, such as those established for a specific group. For example; those scared of boating in the same lake as big fast boats. Maybe its a matter of growing up, but I think its more an issue of giving up and letting others control every little aspect your life. Some people like that. Others don't. Rules are made to be broken. You just have to carefully choose the ones you break.

wires1999 · 11-26-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBC

When is the last time you saw any landside police unit tow a car to a gas station?

BK and Wired seem to have a problem with authority figures.

Sounds like Phantom has summed it up quite well:

"...When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911?"

If you play by the rules then you should have nothing to worry about. It's your responsibility to know the rules before you go out to play. Some just need to grow up and learn the rules.

Please explain to me since it's quite plan to see I have "a problem with authority" how "not contrasting enough bow numbers" according to a teenage MP is a threat to someones safety. I'd really like to hear this one. ps. I've never had an issue with the brave men in blue who are trained professionals. Seems like this thread and alot of others here like to get people all defensive. Do you even have a boat SBC?

JDeere · 11-26-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Rules are made to be broken.

That is fine BUT when you get caught breaking the rules you have to accept the consequences.

Of course the other problem is some people think it is ok to drink and then get behind the wheel of a boat or car. Then other people may have to accept the consequence of your actions

I am sure that most of the folks with the negative posts on MP had attitudes to start off with. In my life I have been stop by MP once and they were just fine. I was 100% in the wrong and I spent 45 minutes of my day with them as the did their inspection. Hey, I was wrong and had no problem……………….guess what? I did not get a ticket.

I recently had a boat break down and although it was not in NH. MP is not allowed to tow there either. I told him I understood and not to worry about it. He said they could not for insurance reasons. I understood and had no problem. I never asked him for a tow nor did I hint at it.

So, guess what? He towed me back to the docks while I waited for help. Funny how these folks can be so nice to some people and so mean to others? Might be time to look in the mirror don’t you think?

NightWing · 11-26-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wires1999

Please explain to me since it's quite plan to see I have "a problem with authority" how "not contrasting enough bow numbers" according to a teenage MP is a threat to someones safety. I'd really like to hear this one. ps. I've never had an issue with the brave men in blue who are trained professionals. Seems like this thread and alot of others here like to get people all defensive. Do you even have a boat SBC?

Did you forget that those "brave men in blue who are trained professionals" will stop you for a plate light out, expired inspection sticker or registration? Are those "safety" items? Of course not, but to put it bluntly, they will give your "trained professional" reason to pull you over and stick his nose in your car and then ask you for license and registration, which he is probably hoping is under suspension so he can arrest you, at the same time sniffing you and your car for odor of booze or pot, as he visually scans the interior for signs of any contraband that will give him reason to bust you.

As far as ragging an officer because he or she is a teenager, why don't you let yourself be heard by the NH Police Standards and Training Council? They have determined that an 18 year old can be trained to be a cop, or as you put it, "a trained professional." That 18 year old would put himself in between you and a bullet if he had to. That is part of his job, keeping you "safe."

Age bias such as you have exhibited is against the law in employment situations and in extremely poor taste on the street.

ApS · 11-27-2006, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wires1999

"Please explain to me since it's quite plain to see I have "a problem with authority" how "not contrasting enough bow numbers" according to a teenage MP is a threat to someones safety..."

A citizen who reports a drunk boater would need a boat registration number that is readable.

"Medium-sized, white and blue boat" doesn't get the job done.

SBC · 11-27-2006, 08:13 AM

Take a gander at: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-E/270-E-8.htm
for the number display requirements. These numbers should be as plainly visible as those on your vehicle's license plate. To not have them properly displayed is an open invitation for scrutiny by the MP that might not otherwise be warranted. White lettering would be a much better color choice for your red boat. BTW a hair dryer and patience work well to remove the old numbers and stickers.

While we're on the topic, your registration validation stickers come with specific instructions about the location of the sticker, which should be to the right of and within six inches ofthe bow numbers, regardless of port or starboard. That is how they are displayed on my boat.

Sounds picky doesn't it? Someone in this thread mentioned the 'hundreds of reasons' that could be used to pull someone over for a stop on the landside. So you have to ask yourself, if someone can't even display their bow numbers in accordance with the law, what other laws or safety requirements might they not be complying with?

NightWing · 11-27-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Well.......So have I!

I'm curious just when that law became "new". Maybe in the crush of the mid-80's

, as I'd been sailing happily without numbers, stickers, or emissions for years prior. (Even before the MPs had Marine Patrol embossed on their sides, and in years when they would tow you.)

Too bad. Officer Westegren, and all the other MPs I've encountered have been very professional. (And should have mentioned that earlier). The law was RSA 270 E:4.

Director Barrett's letter got laminated and is now secured in the boat. When the boat gets unwrapped in April (March?

), I'll scan it in here. It's nice to "win one"—and I'll share it.

270 E:4 covering vessels exempt from registration requirements went in to effect on January 1, 1991. Strange that you had never heard of it. It has been publicized in the boating guide for many years.

Nice to hear from someone who doesn't think his rights were trampled on by MP during a boat stop. It was win-win. You got an education and MP got future compliance.

wires1999 · 11-27-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBC

Take a gander at: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-E/270-E-8.htm
for the number display requirements. These numbers should be as plainly visible as those on your vehicle's license plate. To not have them properly displayed is an open invitation for scrutiny by the MP that might not otherwise be warranted. White lettering would be a much better color choice for your red boat. BTW a hair dryer and patience work well to remove the old numbers and stickers.

While we're on the topic, your registration validation stickers come with specific instructions about the location of the sticker, which should be to the right of and within six inches of the bow numbers, regardless of port or starboard. That is how they are displayed on my boat.

Sounds picky doesn't it? Someone in this thread mentioned the 'hundreds of reasons' that could be used to pull someone over for a stop on the land side. So you have to ask yourself, if someone can't even display their bow numbers in accordance with the law, what other laws or safety requirements might they not be complying with?

Yes, I agree white letters would be better. It is very different than a license plate though. MP really should only be concerned with the color of the reg. sticker. I myself can't read or make out bow #'s from 20+ ' on a moving boat. The issue I have and some people commenting on this thread, is that I feel I WAS harassed for a stupid reason. I'm in my 50's, nice big boat, NH taxpayer, boatful of family members just looking for peace & quiet on the big lake as we have for 20 yrs. and were stopped in the channel and given the 3rd degree, ie: all the safety stuff. I'm not opposed to the safety check at all but I don't need some kid, and yes I'll keep saying that because he was a kid. Polite but still a kid. Most of these MP's aren't certified police officers as many people seem to think. In my opinion as an observer and not a violator, except for the black bow #'s, time was wasted for this stop. I will say that I live on Paugus Bay, therefore I do see a lot more of the MP than many commenting on this thread. Everyone has their own opinion and why some people are so adamant about tearing apart everyone else's opinion really bugs me. I Even had a poster say my post was out of rage and It was obvious since I couldnt' spell. I type fast, get over it.

Woodsy · 11-27-2006, 10:54 AM

Some might be happy to note thoat our MP were indeed patrolling the lake on Saturday afternoon... I was taking in a late afternoon blast with my GF and her daughter when I spotted them moving at headway speed in the Broads off of Welch Is.

We all complain about noise, or 150' rule violations etc, and there are some here who don't like hi performance boats. Lord knows there is never seems to be an MP boat nearby when Capt. Bonehead drives by me and does one of his signature bonehead maneouvers. However... I think the MP do a great job with the funding they are given. They do make the lake safer... even if its just sitting off Weirs Beach doing nothing. Just their presence seems to calm the waters a bit, making people a bit more mindful of the 150' rule.

To the MP officers... Thanks for a job well done!!

Woodsy

lifeonthefarm · 11-27-2006, 01:16 PM

actually they are certified police officers

"Every State Trooper, Conservation Officer, Liquor Investigator, Gaming Investigator, State Corrections Officer, Probation and Parole Officer, University Police Officer, Marine Patrol Officer, Sheriff or Deputy, City or Municipal Police Officer, full or part-time, in the State of New Hampshire received their primary training and much of their in-service training through Police Standards and Training." - Police standards and Training website

The Big Kahuna · 11-27-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I've been pulled over four times by the Marine Patrol.

Back in 2000 or 2001, the MPs made a REALLY big media deal about DUI enforcement on the lake. Still, I'm wondering if the problem is the MP's or NASWA's.

Acres, they still are working hard to catch DUIs, and they should be. But going about it by sitting and waiting for people to leave the Naswa, that is just entrapment. They are making up reasons to stop people when they leave, that is wrong according to the constitubion, Bill of Rights IV Amendment.

Seadoo · 11-27-2006, 06:27 PM

I agree, when someone seeks marine patrol everyone obeys the rules, to bad marine patrol couldn't be there all the time!!

wires1999 · 11-27-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

A citizen who reports a drunk boater would need a boat registration number that is readable.

"Medium-sized, white and blue boat" doesn't get the job done.

I'll probably change the black bow numbers to white one's this spring, I just don't want to be hassled on the lake for something so minor. Never really been close enough to a BWI or wanted too, to read their bow #s. I'd most likely be looking for a transom boat name, so not quite buying that reason if that is a fact. I'd have to be way to close to that boat to read any kind of #'s and quite frankly I'll stay far away from them. I'm not sure about this but if your boat is "documented" that you even need bow #'s @ all. Also in someone elses post, I know for a fact that you do not need to be a certified police officer to be a MP, some maybe, but that doesn't mean they all are. All may have to go to a criminal justice or police standards school but most are still training to go to a criminal justice field. I had an apprentice electrician a few yrs' ago who is now in the FBI and worked for the MP in the summer while school was out. I know first hand how the MP enrollment works. Most people would be surprised that the marine patrol actually patrol all bodies of water including rivers & ponds. I see them alot here on the Merrimack River. They aren't here every day but they do patrol here & there. It was a great job for this kid who started out till something opened up @ a local police dept., got to take his boat home, around water everyday, but marine patrol @ least in NH is a spring to fall job for the most part, perfect for criminal justice students or retirees, there may be some exceptions of course so please don't respond with a negitive reply. Just trying to shed some light.

Skip · 11-27-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifeonthefarm

...actually they are certified police officers...

You are correct, wires1999 is wrong.

Within the Marine Patrol you have a mixture of part-time and full time certified officers, but all officers are certified through the New Hampshire Police Standards Training Council.

Part-time certified officers are limited to a maximum of 1300 hours of work annually. Full time officers obtain their certification by attending the full 12 week police academy at NHPSTC while part-time officers attend a 100 hour academy. The Marine Patrol, as do virtually every other law enforcement agency in the State, conduct additional in house mandatory training concentrating on specialties relevant to that particular agency.

As noted previously, the minimum age for a police officer in the State of New Hampshire is 18.

wires1999 · 11-27-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

You are correct, wires1999 is wrong.

Within the Marine Patrol you have a mixture of part-time and full time certified officers, but all officers are certified through the New Hampshire Police Standards Training Council.

Part-time certified officers are limited to a maximum of 1300 hours of work annually. Full time officers obtain their certification by attending the full 12 week police academy at NHPSTC while part-time officers attend a 100 hour academy. The Marine Patrol, as do virtually every other law enforcement agency in the State, conduct additional in house mandatory training concentrating on specialties relevant to that particular agency.

As noted previously, the minimum age for a police officer in the State of New Hampshire is 18.

Skip, actually I was incorrect with the term "certified". Most MP officers are considered "part time certified officers." There is a big difference with part time police officer education than there is for full time police education. I'm sure it depends on the dept. they are on or applying for, since the Police Academy, as I know it has no tuition. The tuition is usually paid for by the dept. they represent. MP trainees are certified but most are "part time" officers in the early stages of their careers. As I said in a post not yet posted, this was a terrific first job for an apprentice I had several yr's back. The website for new hampshire marine patrol clearly state the requirements and in fact is always looking for good help in the spring. It is a great way to start a career in criminal justice. If I was 30 yr's younger I'd love to start a career there. My helper actually got to take his MP boat home and I was always envyous that he got paid to spend the day on the water. He only worked in the summer though.

The Big Kahuna · 11-28-2006, 08:22 PM

Let me say this about the Marine Patrol, for all the verteran officers that are out there every year that do a great job, thank you. I do not envy you for having to put up with the new-bee's they hire every summer to help you out. Their in-experience have been the route to all the problems I have had out on the lake.

ApS · 11-29-2006, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

"...RSA 270 E:4 covering vessels exempt from registration requirements went in to effect on January 1, 1991. Strange that you had never heard of it. It has been publicized in the boating guide for many years..."

The stop was in 1992.

Unpowered boats that were legally-unregistered in 1991 and legally without registration numbers, were among the least likely to ever receive the boating guide.

R.O.W. and routine overtaking above headway speed are rare occurrences among unpowered boats. Safety issues are inherent in sailing—and sailing after dark isn't practical with fluky lake winds. Night-sailing on a residential lakes is a comparatively high-risk practice anyway—lights ashore being what they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

"...Nice to hear from someone who doesn't think his rights were trampled on by MP during a boat stop. It was win-win. You got an education and MP got future compliance.")

Wel-l-l-l-l-l...there were two MP questions infringing on 5th Amendment rights on that 1992 stop. Those were understandable errors that were easily made with the requirements of that "new" (new in 1991) RSA 270 E:4 law. (And I couldn't/didn't comply anyway).

More effective enforcement of BWI infractions in large boats would be a good thing; otherwise, all is well with the MPs and me while afloat.

BTW: One NHMP boating guide I received stated, "Boaters are discouraged from standing in their boats".

(Like you never see that).

NightWing · 11-29-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

The stop was in 1992.

So, all during the 1991 season and part way into the 1992 season, you never noticed a small sailboat, even a Sunfish, that was displaying a validation decal? OK, maybe you don't look at other boats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Unpowered boats that were legally-unregistered in 1991 and legally without registration numbers, were among the least likely to ever receive the boating guide.

Boating guides aren't mailed out or automatically given with registrations, but are usually readily available in most marinas and boating supply stores in addition to registration desks. Certainly MP headquarters would have them available. Boating guides are a good thing to review every year, just to see if there have been any changes, plus they are tools to review your present knowledge. Just be aware that they are printed for informative purposes, but are not law books. Sometimes mistakes are made in printing and not discovered until later. Serious errors are usually covered by a loose page provided with the guides. Any questions about any boating law should be directed to an officer or headquarters. If you wanted a boating guide, there were plenty around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Wel-l-l-l-l-l...there were two MP questions infringing on 5th Amendment rights on that 1992 stop. Those were understandable errors that were easily made with the requirements of that "new" (new in 1991) RSA 270 E:4 law. (And I couldn't/didn't comply anyway).

What might those two questions have been? As far as compliance, I would imagine that you have complied by now.

If I may paraphrase a note at the bottom of Skip's posts:

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Phantom · 11-29-2006, 03:49 PM

My God --- this is a lesson in how to beat a thread to death!!

Move on people, there's a world out there ............

ApS · 11-30-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

"...What might those two questions have been?"

1) "Do you have a tape measure?"
2) "What is your boat's length?"

John A. Birdsall · 12-02-2006, 01:22 PM

In either 2004 or 2005 The police boat came to me while I was learning to sail my boat and asked how long was my boat. 11'9" I am glad that he did not want to measure it. I had a hard time getting it going in the first place and stopping it without brakes wasn't happening. Enroute to sure it turtled on me and I would never go out in it again. In 2005 I brought it home and sold it for what I paid for it in 2006.

Boat_captain · 12-02-2006, 06:31 PM

The Marine Patrol do a great job with the resources they have.
I really think they should be supplied with more resources to handle the job. I cannot fault them because I have the utmost respect for them.

I do think however the state should give them more funding and raise fines for boat violations.

The Big Kahuna · 12-03-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBC

When is the last time you saw any landside police unit tow a car to a gas station?

BK and Wired seem to have a problem with authority figures.

Sounds like Phantom has summed it up quite well:

"...When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911?"

If you play by the rules then you should have nothing to worry about. It's your responsibility to know the rules before you go out to play. Some just need to grow up and learn the rules.

As a matter of fact I ran out of gas on the highway last year. A State Trooper pull over to see what the problem was. I did forgot my cell phone at home and could not call for help. The trooper called a AAA tow service for me to help me. He then told me he would circle back around and call again if I hadn't received help if I was still there on his way back.

By the way since I have a degree in Law & Justice and have worked in law enforcement in the past, the only problem I have is you telling me I have a problem with authority.

GWC... · 12-04-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

I have learned from my experience, I have not run out gas since, I do make sure all you equipment is in fine working order, and most important, I don't count on anything from the Marine Patrol.

Do my eyes deceive me?!?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

As a matter of fact I ran out of gas on the highway last year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Kahuna

I have learned from my experience, ...

Somehow, the last quote does not ring true...

ApS · 12-05-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

"...In either 2004 or 2005 The police boat came to me while I was learning to sail my boat and asked how long was my boat. 11'9" I am glad that he did not want to measure it..."

Me too, on my 20-footer.

But the MP asked how long your boat was, and they asked me the very same question. If you'd answered 12-feet truthfully (and therefore operating illegally), wouldn't the MPs be compelling you into self-incrimination?

In my case, the MPs also asked me if I had a tape measure on board—still another case for the Fifth Amendment, IMHO. (That is, providing I'd produced a tape measure that they use to establish my boat's true length.)

Not a problem to produce personal identification upon MP request, but a request that compells you into a ticket?

NightWing (heck, everybody) is silent on this.

jrc · 12-05-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Me too, on my 20-footer.

But the MP asked how long your boat was, and they asked me the very same question. If you'd answered 12-feet truthfully (and therefore operating illegally), wouldn't the MPs be compelling you into self-incrimination?

In my case, the MPs also asked me if I had a tape measure on board—still another case for the Fifth Amendment, IMHO. (That is, providing I'd produced a tape measure that they use to establish my boat's true length.)

Not a problem to produce personal identification upon MP request, but a request that compells you into a ticket?

NightWing (heck, everybody) is silent on this.

Come on, you are not compelled to answer. When a trooper pulls you over in your car and says "do you know how fast you were going" or "do you know why I pulled you over" you don't have to say "90" or "because I ran the stop sign". You can always politely decline to answer. Although, I would not suggest lying. I guess common sense really isn't all that common.

NightWing · 12-05-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Me too, on my 20-footer.

But the MP asked how long your boat was, and they asked me the very same question. If you'd answered 12-feet truthfully (and therefore operating illegally), wouldn't the MPs be compelling you into self-incrimination?

In my case, the MPs also asked me if I had a tape measure on board—still another case for the Fifth Amendment, IMHO. (That is, providing I'd produced a tape measure that they use to establish my boat's true length.)

Not a problem to produce personal identification upon MP request, but a request that compells you into a ticket?

NightWing (heck, everybody) is silent on this.

Many officers, whether on land or on the water, may already know the answers to the questions before they ask you. Your response may agree or conflict with what the officer knows to be true. The street cop might ask you if you knew why he stopped you, or he may ask you if you knew how fast you were going. Playing dumb here can work against you. If you didn't know how fast you were going, then you weren't paying attention to your instruments. If you weren't watching the dash, you might not have been watching the road and the speed limit signs. Your responsibility on both counts.

Not knowing the length of your boat can be a clue that you don't know the required safety equipment, some of which changes as the boat length increases. It is in your best interest to know your equipment and what the legal requirements are for both the operator and the vessel.

jrc · 12-06-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

Many officers, whether on land or on the water, may already know the answers to the questions before they ask you. Your response may agree or conflict with what the officer knows to be true. The street cop might ask you if you knew why he stopped you, or he may ask you if you knew how fast you were going. Playing dumb here can work against you. If you didn't know how fast you were going, then you weren't paying attention to your instruments. If you weren't watching the dash, you might not have been watching the road and the speed limit signs. Your responsibility on both counts.

Not knowing the length of your boat can be a clue that you don't know the required safety equipment, some of which changes as the boat length increases. It is in your best interest to know your equipment and what the legal requirements are for both the operator and the vessel.

Well of course they already know.

All I'm saying is that simply asking you if you broke the law is not a violation of your rights. Specifically, your rights against self-incrimination, mentioned in the Fifth amendment, does not prevent an officer from asking you to self-incriminate. It prevents them from forcing you to.

When approached by police, I try to be polite and honest. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Phantom · 12-06-2006, 10:05 AM

Since when do you HAVE to produce identification when asked by MP?? To my knowledge all you are required to produce is a valid registration for the craft --- quite different from a "driver liscence" or other ID. The craft may or may not be registered in "your" name.

NightWing · 12-06-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Since when do you HAVE to produce identification when asked by MP?? To my knowledge all you are required to produce is a valid registration for the craft --- quite different from a "driver liscence" or other ID. The craft may or may not be registered in "your" name.

You might want to read this:

Section 270:12-b
270:12-b Disobeying an Officer. –
I. No person, while operating or otherwise in charge of a vessel, raft, or float of any kind, type, or character or an amphibian or pontoon aircraft under step speed shall:
(a) Knowingly refuse, when requested by a peace officer or agent of the director, to give his name, address, and date of birth, and the name and address of the owner of the vessel, raft, float or amphibian or pontoon aircraft of any kind, type, or character;
(b) Knowingly refuse, on demand of a peace officer or agent of the director, to sign his name in the presence of such officer or agent;
(c) Knowingly refuse, on demand of a peace officer or agent of the director, to produce some means of positive identification such as a driver's license, passport, or other document, or to verify his identity by some other means so that the identity of the operator or person otherwise in charge of a vessel can be determined with reasonable certainty by such peace officer or agent of the director;
(d) Knowingly neglect to stop when signaled to stop by any peace officer or agent of the director, who is in uniform or who displays his badge conspicuously on the outside of his outer coat or garment, or who signals such person to stop by means of any authorized audible or visual emergency warning signals; or otherwise willfully attempt to elude pursuit by a peace officer or agent of the director by increasing speed, extinguishing lights while still in motion, or abandoning a vessel while being pursued;
(e) Knowingly refuse, when requested by a peace officer or agent of the director, to:
(1) direct said amphibian or pontoon aircraft, vessel, raft, or float to shore or to any dock, wharf, or mooring designated by said officer or agent;
(2) follow any vessel operated or controlled by any peace officer or agent of the director to any point on shore, or any wharf or mooring designated by said officer or agent; or
(3) allow said officer or agent to direct or tow said boat, raft, or float to any point on shore or to any dock, wharf, or mooring.
II. Any person who fails to comply with the requirements of this section or provides a false name, address, or date of birth shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Source. 1987, 317:1, eff. July 24, 1987.

Mee-n-Mac · 12-06-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Since when do you HAVE to produce identification when asked by MP?? To my knowledge all you are required to produce is a valid registration for the craft --- quite different from a "driver liscence" or other ID. The craft may or may not be registered in "your" name.

You may want to read this. Don't worry though, in time there'll be no need for any law officer to ask you for your name, the master federal computer will have the ability to forward your tracking data directly to the officer.

Remember, keep your tinfoil hat on tightly, don't look up and keep your cellphone off. Wait, that last part doesn't work anymore ....

ps - If you're wondering if NH is a "stop and identify" state, it is, per RSA 594.2.

Phantom · 12-06-2006, 05:12 PM

Nice to Know Nightwing --

BUT

In the few stops that I have had through the years (ohhh ya, I've actually been victum to the "Blue" light a few times) --- I have always told the MP that I do not have my liscence with me i.e bathing suit on----- and have NEVER been hassled for it !!

No disrespect, I see your point of Law however

NightWing · 12-06-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Nice to Know Nightwing --

BUT

In the few stops that I have had through the years (ohhh ya, I've actually been victum to the "Blue" light a few times) --- I have always told the MP that I do not have my liscence with me i.e bathing suit on----- and have NEVER been hassled for it !!

No disrespect, I see your point of Law however

That isn't a problem, really. The officer shouldn't hassle you for it. Remember, a Driver's License is not required to operate a boat, although a Boating Education Certificate is required, depending on your age group. Having one or both of these documents available allows the officer to complete his paperwork a little faster, therefore getting you on your way a little sooner. Remember, paperwork is done for every stop.

You must be able and willing to identify yourself; name, address and date of birth. A Driver's license is a quick and easy way to accomplish that. The Boating Ed Certificate will also identify you.

Lacking either, (and lack of the BE Cert, if required by your age group, will likely get you a ticket) you would be required to sign your name on a form in front of the officer. That is a testimonial that you are who you say you are.

Boat_captain · 12-06-2006, 08:28 PM

Remember the Marine Patrol has limited resources and funds.
They deserve every ounce of respect for what they do.
Our state does not fund or pay them enough in my book.

Boating Education offered by the Marine Patrol is a great way of obtaining some of the basics for safe navigation but I would enhance that education by doing some Coast Guard courses or finding courses offered by the United States Power Squadrons.

Remember regardless of what anyone thinks a simple stop for inspection by the Marine Patrol may save your life.

NightWing · 12-06-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boat_captain

Remember regardless of what anyone thinks a simple stop for inspection by the Marine Patrol may save your life.

MP does not stop "for inspection", but inspects all they stop.

Woodsy · 12-07-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boat_captain

Remember the Marine Patrol has limited resources and funds.
They deserve every ounce of respect for what they do.
Our state does not fund or pay them enough in my book.

Boating Education offered by the Marine Patrol is a great way of obtaining some of the basics for safe navigation but I would enhance that education by doing some Coast Guard courses or finding courses offered by the United States Power Squadrons.

Remember regardless of what anyone thinks a simple stop for inspection by the Marine Patrol may save your life.

The MP can no longer stop you for a "Safety Inspection" like they used to. The NH Supreme Court ruled that they needed "Probable Cause" to stop you. The same standard that applies to police officers statewide.

Woodsy

Skip · 12-07-2006, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The MP can no longer stop you for a "Safety Inspection" like they used to. The NH Supreme Court ruled that they needed "Probable Cause" to stop you. The same standard that applies to police officers statewide.

Woodsy

Actually what a law enforcement officer needs to stop & temporarily detain is known in the trade as articulable suspicion. Probable cause, a much higher standard, is what an LEO needs to effect an arrest or request a warrant.

To some it may appear to be a play on words, but when it comes to your constitutional rights the difference between the two standards is immeasurable!

What the courts maintain is that an officer must have articulable suspicion that an offense has occured in order to stop and temporarily detain you. After you have been detained (or otherwise investigated) using the articulable suspicion standard, the officer may develop more facts & circumstances that lead him to the probable cause necessary to effect a warrant or arrest.

That is why the examples given in an earlier post of an MP asking you "what length is your boat" or "do you have a tape measure" are not examples of the borderline infringement of your fifth ammendment rights. There are a number of US Supreme Court and lower court opinions that have examined these very same examples and found the asking of such questions during a articulable suspicion or "Terry" type stop do not violate the offender's right's.

Hope this clears it up a little....needless to say you are always walking a very thin (blue) line when dealing with the public as a law enforcement official!

Merry Christmas!

Skip

Woodsy · 12-07-2006, 09:06 AM

Thanks for the clarification Skip!! Gotta love having a LEO on the website!

Happy Holidays!

Woodsy

11-20-2006, 06:29 PM	#1
paulie Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Marine Patrol I have spent the last 4 or 5 months on this forum and have yet to post anything. I really love the forum and I think it is very helpfull to all those who use the lake. But one thing turns up my nose. Many of the threads I read start off as harmless questions folks have, whether it concerns safety on the lake, boating laws, etc.. But then there are those who try to contibute to the thread in a negative way and it always turns into a big argument over the MPs and how they do their job. This summer I was stopped and ticketed by Marine Patrol for rafting. Hey, I broke the law... I just liked the spot and didnt think i'd get caught. Id like to see a reponse to this thread containing all those who were stopped by the MPs and EXACTLY what was so bad about the experience other than paying the fine. ... I hope I didnt hit a nerve

11-20-2006, 07:02 PM	#2
The Big Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Gilford Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	MP just doing their job? The Marine Patrol do nothing on this lake to make the lake a safer place. Case in point, why are they in some cove writing you a rafting ticket, rather than making sure the traffic areas of the lake are safe, where boats are passing each other within the 150' of safe passage, at more than wake speed. They seem to migrate to where people tend to socialize and make sure there is no fun attempted. I have boated on this lake for over 20 years and have never seen an injury or accedent from rafting, yet that is what they spend the majority of their time preventing. I recieved a ticket for rafting once, I parked my boat, through out my lines and decided to take a nap. The Marine Patrol woke me up to tell me they were writing me a ticket for rafting because why I was sleeping, two other boats parked to close to me. I tried to explain it to them, and the boat next to me even admitted he came in and parked next to me, but they still wrote me a ticket. How about the time I went to see the fire works in Alton Bay with my inlaws. I had my mother inlaw, two sister inlaws with husbands and about 6 kids in my boat. I ran out of gas after the fire works, when I waved to a Marine Patrol boat to help me, they pulled aside my boat, told me there was nothing they could do and kept on going, leaving me with a boat full of kids and my aging mother inlaw. I had to ask another boat to pull me to a near by dock to get my boat out of the way of other boats leaving Alton Bay. By the way, they also have no idea what 150 ft is as far as safe passage it, they think its 3 football fields if you ask one of them. Once you have been out on the lake for a longer period of time you will know why so many of us do not think that highly of them.

11-20-2006, 07:50 PM	#5
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	My $.02 I think you will find a lot of the stories like the ones above regarding MP. As long as they are forced to hire kids at $13 an hour during the summer instead of having a professional department then nothing will change. How can MP have a professional department? Merge it with the NHSP and train full time professional troopers to handle marine issues. At the end of the season instead of laying off the $13 rent-a-cop, the MP trained troopers of the NHSP are redeployed within the NHSP dept.

11-21-2006, 09:46 AM	#14
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,870 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 892 Times in 524 Posts	Humm I guess my experiences are unique I always find it interesting that people seem to have so many bad experiences with the Marine Patrol. I for one have been on the lake for over 20 years know, and my experiences with the Marine Patrol have always been good. But then again I don't act scared or shy away from them. I have had great conversations with many of them, when they have been tied up taking a break, having lunch. I have even had some rules that I didn't quite understand explained to me. And if you wonder why sometimes they can be a little less the hospitable on the weekends, Well I have never seen one of them finish there lunch. My conversations with them usually end with them throughing there sandwich on the dash while I untie there boat and they go after someone who has very noticably violated the 150' rule. And Hey even once or twice I have had the blue light turned on and had to explain myself. Now call luck if you will I have never been ticketed. Here is my point get to know some of these guys you will find that most of them are out there doing the job, because they have a love for the water, just like the rest of us. And as someone else stated there are a lot of these guys that come back year after year. The last one I talked to had been working on the Marine Patrol for over 10 years. __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

11-21-2006, 12:20 PM	#15
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here's a positive! During last Saturdays Turkey Plunge on Weirs Beach I felt a lot better with the MP boat sitting well within reach of all of us as we dove in. God forbid something were to have happened they would have been in the perfect spot to save someones butt! __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

11-20-2006, 07:16 PM	#3
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,117 Thanks: 1,325 Thanked 559 Times in 288 Posts	Paulie: I find your post unusual and somewhat disconcerting. You start it off by saying that you don't like folks who post negative messages and then you bait the forum with a Marine Patrol question. "I hope I didn't hit a nerve" Are you sure? What are you trying to accomplish?

11-20-2006, 07:37 PM	#4
wires1999 Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Have to agree with the Big Kahuna and this has been going on for yrs. now. I doubt if anything will ever change, no matter how many people complain. I actually got pulled over, with a boat full of guests this summer, in the channel because the very young MP felt my bow numbers weren't "contrasting enough." Black #'s on red paint, only been on that boat for 20 yrs. but I was more of a threat than the huge carver that nearly swamped us coming into the channel, I suppose. Unfortunatly these stories are alot more common than any good comments that MP does. I'd like to hear some nice stories about the MP, if anyone has some. They are totally different than the police officers we have around in the state. I think it must have something to do with the inexperience these kids have or with the management from above. To me anyway, they focus more on the harmless than the dangerous.

11-20-2006, 08:13 PM	#7
wires1999 Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree Airwaves, tough situation. Not sure if I myself would be overzealous in regards to writing easy tickets, in easy water, to seeming harmless familys, to cut my teeth in law inforcement, which most of these kids are doing. I don't have any answers to these problems. Maybe it does stem from management. I would start these kids learning how to work with the good people, which 99% of them are good safe boaters, to tell them what they did wrong. Just their presence alone in congested areas help. I won't comment on this thread since it seems to always be here one way or another but all the hassling of rafters really bothers me. The season is so short and if you figure the actual time spent enjoying the water vs. the costs of owning a boat & slip, it doesn't make sense to be hassled.

11-20-2006, 09:25 PM	#10
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Since it appears what I write and suggest will be taken as an attack on the fine state of NH, I now withdraw from the forum.

11-20-2006, 11:02 PM	#12
paulie Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I didn't mean for this to be the same old rant from the same old people. I simply want people who have had good and just experience with marine patrol like myself and my brother, or even maybe someone who was helped by them. People need to read those sorts of things... I think my registration dollars are well spent. And to be honest with you, I find some of these negative stories hard to believe. .... and in response to Case in point, why are they in some cove writing you a rafting ticket, rather than making sure the traffic areas of the lake are safe I have a bright yellow boat and have been seen in that spot 3 times (that i know of) and they have simply swung in and asked me to move. 3rd time I wasnt so lucky.

11-21-2006, 01:46 PM	#16
lifeonthefarm Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"The Marine Patrol do nothing on this lake to make the lake a safer place." This is a joke right? What about the 3 drunks who crashed their boats into land this summer (Eagle Island, Light 80, Hurricane Island)? The MP was there to rescue their butts and make sure they got what they deserved (all charged with BWI). Surely there were numerous other intoxicated skippers who got stopped and arrested before something happend. Not to mention that there had to have been others who were deterred from driving their boats home after a hard night at the bar thanks to the MPs presence on the lake. One night I was caught admiring one of the "AMBAR" patrol boats at the docks and had the pleasure of talking to a MP officer about the lake. He told me that the "night shift" on Winni is comprised of some of the Depts. best officers and are selected based on their performance only after working a number of years on the day shift. They train for an entire summer on patrol with other night officers and are required to know the location of every light buoy, point, cove, island, and summer camp on the lake before they are allowed to patrol alone. They are out there 7 nights a week for the entire summer responding to accidents, escorting lost boaters home or boats without proper lights. It is a shame they don't publish a Marine Patrol Arrest Log because I am sure we would all be surprised by the number of drunk driving arrests that are made every weekend. Its definitly not the wild west, but no open container law sure makes it easy to have "one too many". And I bet these guys were happy the MP was there... From www.nhmarinepatrol.com Last edited by lifeonthefarm; 11-21-2006 at 03:37 PM.

11-21-2006, 09:17 PM	#19
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,445 Thanks: 339 Thanked 119 Times in 96 Posts	Marine Patrol One has to ask Kahuna, "why did you run out of gas" ? Planning ? I was taught, always have 1/3 tank of gas, to get where you're going, 1/3 to get back, and 1/3 in reserve! This rule has never failed me, and I've never run out of gas..... Hopefully, I'll never be in that situation. I understand what you're saying about your situation Kahuna, the M.P. should have helped or sent for assistance to get you some gas, they didn't ! Shame on them ! But the event was 10 years in the past, I say "let it go". Maybe just bad judgement call by the M.P. ? There is good and bad in the M.P., but you find that in any organization! However, the good the M.P. does outweighs the negative. I've been stopped by the M.P. in the past, for a violation, nothing serious, but they pointed out something that I wasn't aware about. In that case, they were right, and I learned something from the event. They do need to "back off" on trivial issues, which appears as harassment, and concentrate more on serious situations that occur around the Lake. Maybe more education and dealing with the public would help their image ? They definitely need to work on their "people skills" !

11-21-2006, 10:05 PM	#21
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 281 Thanks: 3 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts	Need a tow... When did it become MP's job to tow everyone home that ran out of gas? Isn't that what towboatus is for? I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a State Trooper with a vehicle in tow.... Nope, can't recall a single instance. I'm not unsympathetic to those that run of out of gas -- heck, we towed someone in on our last day out this season -- but to knock a public safety function for not being AAA of the wet, that's not valid. On this Thanksgiving I'm thankful that we have a big lake, the means to enjoy it and Marine Patrol working in partnership with the rest of us to help keep it safe and enjoyable for both boaters and property owners.

11-21-2006, 10:25 PM	#22
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	I also am thankful for the Lake and the Marine Patrol. I don't always agree with their protocol on the lake but...it is what it is and quite frankly if you don't like it... boat somewhere else. I won't miss you and I'm sure there are others that feel the same way. AND Paulie, being told three times not to do something by an officer not only is stupid on your part, but you wasted his time for potentially "more important" duties. I hope the fine was stiff.

11-22-2006, 05:24 AM	#24
pmj Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 240 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	on a positive note... I have not ever had a problem with MP but i do agree that often I have seen unsafe situations on the lake...and the old adage...where are they when you need them?? comes to mind. That said, however, it could happen on the highways, also..They can't be everywhere at once. I have one experience to share. My husband and I were coming out of Wolfeboro harbor one fairly windy day and got ready to set sail. Of course we LOVE wind . I was at the helm and he went up on deck to raise the mainsail. He had his life jacket on. We spotted an MP in the distance and he started to motor towards us. He idled down and just sat..keeping watch. He motored away after my hubby was safe in the cockpit. I felt good about that. With a sailboat there is always a risk of going over board when on deck raising sails, especially if there is a sudden gust of wind or a mechanical problem. As far as running out of gas, towboatus is a worthwhile membership and an oar or 2 can come in real handy. Been there,done that .

11-22-2006, 08:54 AM	#25
BBS2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 88 Thanks: 11 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	mp's We've had several fine experiences with the MP. The first was like pmj's..we were coming out of Fay's and the MP stopped to see if we had our pfd's on. He smiled and gave us the thumbs up then followed us out until we got under sail. The second was when a windsurfer went down in the Broads and took a little too long getting up. I called to let them know and the dispatcher said they would send someone right away. Several minutes later the surfer started for shore and got onto the beach. My husband went to check on him and he said he was OK. I called dispatch and told them that and she thanked me for letting them know she would call the boat back. Third time...Fay's was coming to take our boat off the mooring to repair a broken spreader. Unfortunately they came in an unmarked boat. So a guy gets on our boat, starts the motor and off they go. My husband got a call at work from the MP(on the lake at the time with the guys right there!!) to check if their story was true. What public service! I've often seen them stopping boaters on the Broads for various reasons. Too much Lake, too few officers. Many thanks to all in public service, they are too often under appreciated. Happy Thankskgiving Everyone...be safe...have fun.

11-22-2006, 05:00 PM	#26
NHskier Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 291 Thanks: 43 Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts	My experience ... My wife and I were out on our first boating experience on Winnipesaukee taking an in-water test ride on a boat we were considering purchasing. The marina's temporary registration was in place on the windscreen and one of their staff was with us for instruction, etc. This was September 2 and we were feeling the effects of hurricane(?) Ernesto so it was blowing pretty good. Realistically it was not a day we'd choose to go boating - very windy, lots of chop and overcast & cool - but a good test day never-the-less. The boat checked out fine, though the weather conditions led us to instead choose a bigger, more stable boat (23' instead of 20'). But the highlight of the test was my getting pulled over (for lack of a better term) by NH Marine Patrol way out in Sanders Bay and getting yelled at for not keeping to the right in a head-on situation. The officer apparently didn't notice that we were stationary (had stopped and were discussing the boat with the marina guy out with us), and were therefore the stand-on boat. Not to mention there were virtually no other boats even in sight and the entire bay was wide open for maneuvering. Everyone we related the story to that day all had the same response - since there was hardly anyone else out he was just bored. And this was not a young guy. Since I've now got that first stop under my belt, I figure I'm all set from here on out. NHskier

11-22-2006, 05:29 PM	#27
JDeere Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 295 Thanks: 74 Thanked 52 Times in 25 Posts	Maybe I am wrong Not sure if I am right or not but unless you were at anchor you are the same as any boat that is under way. So MP was right. I think!?

11-22-2006, 05:48 PM	#28
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	I've got to more or less side with the Big Kahuna on this one. I agree other folks that the MP is not, and probably shouldn't be, a towing service. But, the circumstances were that this was a disabled boat, full of kids, at night, in the middle of a post-fireworks traffic crunch. Those people were clearly in danger and would have been much safer if the MP had stayed with them with flashers going until a tow boat arrived. The MP might even have had his dispatcher call one. So far as I know, that's what a NH State Trooper would have done in an equivalent situation on the highway; I can't imagine why the MP would behave differently ... Silver Duck

11-22-2006, 06:36 PM	#29
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Without both sides being presented by the actual people involved, it is impossible to determine if the MP or the boater was wrong. It may have been a misunderstanding or a situation reported here differently than the actual event. Again, the question of "Do you want us to call a towing service?" may have been asked and when advised that the cost might be a few hundred dollars, the boater declined. Perhaps the MP unit said he could tow him directly to shore where he would have to get his own help was not what the boater wanted to hear, but instead wanted a tow back to his marina. Another consideration was that there was not a true danger to the boat or its occupants and they could safely anchor there until help arrived. Major inconvenience and a crappy way to end a voyage? Yup, big time. Justification to criticize the officer? No. I don't think that any MP unit would abandon a disabled vessel if that vessel was truly in danger. In this case, 10 years after the fact, the poster claims he had to paddle 100 yards to shore. 300 feet. Then he had to walk 3 miles to get gas. He WAS able to help himself. Yes, it took time. Now, suppose the MP had towed him that 300 feet and left him there. Would he be happy? Probably not because he was 3 miles away from fuel. Perfect example of a stranded boater thinking the MP should act as a towing or shuttle service. The MP certainly would have called for a tower or offered to contact a friend or a marina for them. If the boater copped attitude, then "Have a nice day!"

11-22-2006, 08:52 PM	#31
Aquadeziac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Concord NH Posts: 239 Thanks: 19 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Facts?? Lets see....In his first post Kahuna says he had to find someone to tow his 27' boat to shore. Then in his last post he had to paddle his 27' boat to shore. Which was it? I know I wouldn't have forgotten facts of an ordeal like that. Maybe certain other facts are not being remembered clearly too. eh? Maybe by his next post the boat will have been caught in a storm and washed ashore on a deserted island where they all suffered the past 10 years causing this MP fixation/syndrome. __________________ "He who dies with the most toys wins"

11-22-2006, 09:37 PM	#33
Paugus Bay Resident Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gilmanton, NH Posts: 754 Thanks: 136 Thanked 93 Times in 51 Posts	Bottom line is, for better or for worse, MPs obligation is to protect the safety and wellbeing of boaters (that's what laws are intended to do) It is entirely their discretion as to what is a "issue" that needs their attention. They are human, they have judgment calls which we may or may not agree with. I've had issues both positive and not. We can &^tch about everything in life or get used to the reality that not everything goes the way we think it should. Welcome to life. Sorry for the rant, but lately this forum is getting way to negative for me. Last edited by Paugus Bay Resident; 11-23-2006 at 11:02 PM.*

11-24-2006, 12:10 PM	#35
The Big Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Gilford Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Tow service on the lake Now, regarding fuel or a tow, a situation on land that would involve contacting a towing service for assistance, help is closer than most realize, 24/7 during the boating season at the Lake…[/QUOTE] These tow services on the lake were not available 10 years ago. You had to call one of the Marina's for help and since it was late at night after the fire-works, there was no one to call. As far as why I ran out of gas, it turns out I had a bad sending gage on my fuel tank, thought I had plenty of gas. You are right about one thing, they should have helped me. As far as letting go, they have not shown me anything over the past 10 years that would want me to let go. I know they do some good things out there, but they don't make up for the terible things they do.

11-24-2006, 02:05 PM	#42
PaulS Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bwi Isn't it better not to have too much to drink, whether the MP is there or not?

11-24-2006, 04:22 PM	#46
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	BK, why don't you just say what you wanted/expected MP to do? Tow you to a gas dock? Where? How far away? What about the traffic detail they were assigned? Abandon that and let dozens, maybe hundreds of boats go wild while the MP unit was tied up towing your one boat back to wherever? Your expectations and attitude may have influenced the officer, but their policy is still not to tow boats unless life, limb or property are at risk, and only tow far enough to remove the vessel from danger. The fact that another boater gave you a tow is evidence that help was available. If that boater would have towed you to shore, would you have been happy then? You claimed that gas was three miles away and you had to walk, so your problems wouldn't be over at shore. Was that the responsibility of the boater who helped you?

11-24-2006, 04:47 PM	#47
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	BK, you sound pretty disturbed for such a seemingly minor thing. I understand your feelings about the MP and don't necessarily agree that your point is correct. If I was put in your position that night, I might feel differently.The MP made a judgement call that night and felt there were potentially more important issues to come at the end of the fireworks, than you. I think you aren't going to gain anything by posting your grudge here on the forum, as most viewers and posters, as I read are seasoned boaters on the lake and understand what happened is par for the course. Move on to more important things and learn from your experiences. You are not going to change anything regarding the MP nor gain sympathy for your "crisis" from most of us readers. I bet you check your guages and all your gear before you head out on the lake at night after this experience now, don't you?

11-24-2006, 05:03 PM	#48
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Nightwing I'm curious; since you stated the MP's policy, do you have access to the MP's written SOPs for various situations? Or, perhaps Skip might chime in, here, if he does. A 10 year old incident is kind of stale to get upset over, but it would be useful to know what kind of help to expect from the MP under their current protocols. And, yes, I belong to Sea Tow (have since they became available on the lake). I have both their national and local response numbers programmed into my cell phone (as well at the MP's phone number.) But, I admit that I would be somewhat shocked to be abandoned to drift around in the dark until Sea Tow arrived! Silver Duck

11-24-2006, 07:20 PM	#52
lifeonthefarm Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"traps" Who are the ones they are catching when they set these "traps" or sit by the Weirs Channel? The morons who don't understand or respect the 150' law... and I can bet that most of the ones they catch probably have never heard of it. Just don't give them a reason to stop you and you will be all set. As far as "spying" on the NASWA I am sure that is not their intentions because the Weirs Channel is obviously the busiest part of the lake and its been said 100x before that people seemingly start to behave when the MP is around. They are doing their job and your friends who got stopped after coming from the NASWA probably had a light out, expired decal, non-contrasting bow #s... or any of a hundred LEGAL reasons why they were stopped. I dont see any difference between that and being stopped for having a plate light out on the highway, and frankly if someone gets arrested for BWI because of it then the lake was made a safer place thanks to the MP who took the time to find a less obvious infraction.

11-24-2006, 10:52 PM	#56
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	Hey BK, I can imagine now how you felt that night, based on what I've seen coming out of Wolfeboro after the fireworks, I agree that it must have been pretty scarey for the kids. I am not knocking you, I feel at a minimum that if I was the officer that I would stay near to you until a tow came to help you. Sometime just being there adds a degree of safety. Travel the New Jersey turnpike at rush hour, if you see a car with a flat or disabled along the road the trooper will push you out of the lane of traffic in his car and sit in his car behind you until help arrives. The trooper rarely gets out of his cruiser as a safety measure, they use their Pa system in the car to communicate. I feel if you got anywhere near this type of treatment you wouldn't be so pissed at the Mps and...as you said...never forget. See you on the lake next summer and if you do run out of gas, and I see you sitting there...I'll tow you. Why? It is the right thing to do, thats why.

11-25-2006, 09:56 AM	#58
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	Okay -- I've tried to stay away from this thread the best I could -- but the Naswa (trapping) set me over the edge. I personally HIGHLY doubt that MP sits there and actually "Logs" in bow #'s of arriving patrons -- my god, have you ever seen what that place looks like on a sunny, hot Sunday-- let alone a Holiday!! They are not complete idiots -- they are fully aware that they would have a much better (as you say) entrapment rate if they simply drifted off Braun Bay (and I know thats another whole thread unto itself --SO DON'T start). I actually find it comforting that there is a patrol boat "lurking" around the establishment when it becomes extremely busy. It hopefully will make someone think twice before getting behind the helm and pass the keys over or better yet -- take some additional time and have a few soda's before setting out. Perhaps if they were "lurking" off the Naswa a few years back the Littlefield incident might (who knows) have been averted!!! I find MP actions (in this senerio) no more offensive or different than when a cruiser sits outside the High School dance!! Further, in my humble opinion -- it gives them the perfect place (the channel) and opportunity to check (visually) for obvious boating regulations i.e Life Jackets on kids, no one hanging/sitting on the bow rails, current registration decal, overloaded boats etc etc etc --- for my money thats a good thing. Finally, to the patrol boat that is nine times out of ten at the end of the Channell (Wiers side) on week-ends --- I have to tell you that he's there, and has been there, nearly every week-end for the past 20 years!! Our cottage looks right out onto this area! Their stops are for the obvious -- the 150' rule -- and I must admit they take particular notice (perhaps too much) of the Jet ski's versus boats!! I think your notion that they radio ahead from a "spy" boat is giving them a little to much credit for deviousness (if that's even a word) I'm done ............. Don't bother to tear this post apart for I won't be responding .................. Marine Patrol for all of us is a love/hate relationship ... no different than your local or State Police. When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911? __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

11-25-2006, 10:47 AM	#59
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Phantom Don't be looking for me to tear your post apart; anything that gets a drunken operator out from behind the wheel before they have a chance to hurt somebody is just fine with me! Nor do I consider hanging out in Braun Bay, etc. watching for instances of BUI to be entrapment. As for monitoring the channel, it's definitely better to takle care of getting kids off the bow and into PFDs before the boat throttles up. (Though it might be better not to make the actual stop in the narrowest part of the channel unless there's something really dangerous going on.) The MP is also welcome to board my boat for a safety inspection any time they wish. If they ever find something safety-related that I've overlooked, I'll figure that they've done me a service and are owed a sincere thank you! Silver Duck

11-26-2006, 12:24 AM	#61
SBC Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH fresh waters and forests Posts: 72 Thanks: 12 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	When is the last time you saw any landside police unit tow a car to a gas station? BK and Wired seem to have a problem with authority figures. Sounds like Phantom has summed it up quite well: "...When you get bagged in a radar trap you hate them. When something goes wrong or god forbid any other situation occurs what is the first number you call?? Your mother or 911?" If you play by the rules then you should have nothing to worry about. It's your responsibility to know the rules before you go out to play. Some just need to grow up and learn the rules.

11-27-2006, 08:13 AM	#68
SBC Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NH fresh waters and forests Posts: 72 Thanks: 12 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	please explain for wires Take a gander at: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...-E/270-E-8.htm for the number display requirements. These numbers should be as plainly visible as those on your vehicle's license plate. To not have them properly displayed is an open invitation for scrutiny by the MP that might not otherwise be warranted. White lettering would be a much better color choice for your red boat. BTW a hair dryer and patience work well to remove the old numbers and stickers. While we're on the topic, your registration validation stickers come with specific instructions about the location of the sticker, which should be to the right of and within six inches ofthe bow numbers, regardless of port or starboard. That is how they are displayed on my boat. Sounds picky doesn't it? Someone in this thread mentioned the 'hundreds of reasons' that could be used to pull someone over for a stop on the landside. So you have to ask yourself, if someone can't even display their bow numbers in accordance with the law, what other laws or safety requirements might they not be complying with?

11-27-2006, 10:54 AM	#71
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,965 Thanks: 80 Thanked 979 Times in 440 Posts	Some might be happy to note thoat our MP were indeed patrolling the lake on Saturday afternoon... I was taking in a late afternoon blast with my GF and her daughter when I spotted them moving at headway speed in the Broads off of Welch Is. We all complain about noise, or 150' rule violations etc, and there are some here who don't like hi performance boats. Lord knows there is never seems to be an MP boat nearby when Capt. Bonehead drives by me and does one of his signature bonehead maneouvers. However... I think the MP do a great job with the funding they are given. They do make the lake safer... even if its just sitting off Weirs Beach doing nothing. Just their presence seems to calm the waters a bit, making people a bit more mindful of the 150' rule. To the MP officers... Thanks for a job well done!! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid. Last edited by Woodsy; 11-27-2006 at 11:25 AM.

11-27-2006, 01:16 PM	#72
lifeonthefarm Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	actually they are certified police officers "Every State Trooper, Conservation Officer, Liquor Investigator, Gaming Investigator, State Corrections Officer, Probation and Parole Officer, University Police Officer, Marine Patrol Officer, Sheriff or Deputy, City or Municipal Police Officer, full or part-time, in the State of New Hampshire received their primary training and much of their in-service training through Police Standards and Training." - Police standards and Training website