Septic System Replacement

[secondcurve]

I have a 26-30 year old septic system serving a lakefront cottage. No problems at this time but I’m wondering if I should start thinking about proactively replacing it or at least getting the design and permitting in place so to avoid a scramble should it unexpectedly fail. How have others handles this type of situation?

[WinnisquamZ]

Not a bad take at it. Unfortunately these things tend to fail at the wrong times. Lead times for those that do this stuff is long so at the minimum I would have an inspection done. Won’t hurt


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[TomC]

If its working well and has been properly pumped over the years, it may still be fine for many more - especially if its a weekend/seasonal place that has been lightly used over its life. The shoreline protection act really limits what you can do - and the solutions within your lot constraints are often expensive.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Theoretically a septic system can last a very long time "if" it was designed correctly to begin with "and" it is cared for EACH year.

Garbage Disposals will place stress on a septic system (unlike a sewer line). It is common for folks to immediately install a garbage disposal when they move into a home that does not have one. If you don't have a sewer line then this is ill advised. "Most" non garbage disposal homes do not have a septic system which has been designed for use with a garbage disposal.

Another hint for septic system owners: Pump the system out once per year regardless of actual use each year (i.e. four months seasonally versus twelve months year 'round). Annual pump outs could make the system last a lifetime.

Regulations and actual locations for septic systems have been changing over the last 50 years and there's no reason to believe that things won't continue to become tougher as time progresses. It has also become a very expensive proposition to do a design and install a new septic system.

[Biggd]

26 to 30 years isn't that bad. strict regulations have been in effect for over 40 years so as long as it's been serviced regularly it should be fine.
You should have it inspected first and see what they say.
Mine is almost 40 years old and works the way it should.
It is a second home for me, so I pump it every 5 years with no issues.

[garysanfran]

I had my entire system inspected by Lamprey Septic. It's over 30 yrs. old and passed with no problem.

[Descant]

30+ years ago there was a lot less consideration of slope, soil type and the settling tanks were smaller. Shorefront systems never failed, they just leached into the lake. The OP doesn't say seasonal, STR or year round use. Short term renters who are on a sewer at home may dump all sorts of things into the system. There are designers, inspectors and builder/installers. There is a temptation to think that somebody who "does it all" may do it all to you, while different perspectives from different contractors may be a better solution.
Flushing dye through the system may sound like a good idea, but it is unlikely to be definitive if the system isn't being used routinely.

[camp guy]

I STRONGLY support TheTimeTraveler's post, especially the comment about pumping EVERY YEAR. Many systems have filters between the house and the tank(s), so it is important to have these checked every year, too. If your State approved (stamped) septic design shows a filter, it better be there when the pump-out service arrives or else they could refuse to pump the system. Also, if the filter is on the Plan, but not physically installed, this could create a problem at the time of a sale. (This could prove very expensive, possibly the loss of a sale.) Pumping every year is, to me, well worth the cost, especially when nothing wrong is found. And, garbage disposals are Enemy #1 of a septic system.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by camp guy

I STRONGLY support TheTimeTraveler's post, especially the comment about pumping EVERY YEAR. Many systems have filters between the house and the tank(s), so it is important to have these checked every year, too. If your State approved (stamped) septic design shows a filter, it better be there when the pump-out service arrives or else they could refuse to pump the system. Also, if the filter is on the Plan, but not physically installed, this could create a problem at the time of a sale. (This could prove very expensive, possibly the loss of a sale.) Pumping every year is, to me, well worth the cost, especially when nothing wrong is found. And, garbage disposals are Enemy #1 of a septic system.

Lots of good thoughts/advice in this thread. Thank you! I pump the tank and D-Box every year. It’s a seasonal house and we tend to use the outdoor shower for the majority of the time the house is open so that takes some pressure off the system. There was a garbage disposal when I bought the house in 2009 but I immediately removed that not wanting to take a chance. I don’t know if the septic system was designed to handle a garbage disposal but I it doesn’t matter now that it is gone. We do have a clothes washer that we try to limit use of. The septic design process/permitting would be about $6-7,000 and probably another $30,000 to $40,000 for install. The comment about these failing at the worse possible time is spot on. And unfortunately the lead time to get a contractor is long. Not a good a good combination. Perhaps the middle ground is to get an inspection. How accurate are these inspections?

[winterh]

My system is about 15 years old and gets most of its use during summer months. If that was all there was to it I could see it lasting a very long time but I worry that the area around it has a lot of trees. Roots seek out the nutrients and can infiltrate the pipes. I had this happen to my sewer line at a rental I own last year and now I worry about my septic which has many more trees around it.

[BillTex]

$200-$300 for annual pump out is cheap insurance. We have also had our system inspected (cost was similar $200-$300). Inspector recommended removing a tree that was close by as the root system WILL seek out moisture.

Having a new system designed/approved can be a good idea as it locks you in for that particular design for a period of time. IIRC it was something like 5- 8 years? If requirements should (will?!) change you will have a design already approved.
This is how the inspector explained it to us.

[Descant]

If you have an oldc system, c hances are the rest of your plumbing is old too. Replacing fixtures with low or restricted flow puts less water through the system. Same with new toilets that flush with 1+8 gallons instead of 5. An outhouse and a thunder jug still work just fine, and "In ths land of fund and sun, we don't flush for number one. If you do it and it's brown, go ahead and flush it down." Water conservation is important.
For the outdoor shower, where does that drain to? How far from the lake, what kind of soil? What kind of soap are you using?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

If you have an oldc system, c hances are the rest of your plumbing is old too. Replacing fixtures with low or restricted flow puts less water through the system. Same with new toilets that flush with 1+8 gallons instead of 5. An outhouse and a thunder jug still work just fine, and "In ths land of fund and sun, we don't flush for number one. If you do it and it's brown, go ahead and flush it down." Water conservation is important.
For the outdoor shower, where does that drain to? How far from the lake, what kind of soil? What kind of soap are you using?

Sorry, but I don't leave remnants of my bowels in the toilet, ever!

[FlyingScot]

I'm with Time Traveler too. Get it serviced/inspected regularly, and they'll let you know before it fails. Lamprey is excellent

[BillTex]

Septic 101: liquids good. Solids bad.
It is the buildup of solids that (eventually) cause problems.

[Woody38]

We had a septic system on Cape Cod. We lived there for 20 years. There was one problem and the system was pumped. Then it failed again. Appeared that the wrong tank was pumped. When installed this system would pass for
waterfront today. I was told to use Rid X. We have another house with septic and use Rid X. Never a problem with either system.

______________________________________________

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic

[The Real BigGuy]

One issue with Rid-X I have heard is it heats up the system due to the increase in biological actions. This excess heat cause fats and oil that have solidified and sunk in the tank to liquify and flow to the leach field where it resolidifies in the pipes and laterals eventually clogging same. My septic guy recommended against using it.


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[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I have a 26-30 year old septic system serving a lakefront cottage. No problems at this time but I’m wondering if I should start thinking about proactively replacing it or at least getting the design and permitting in place so to avoid a scramble should it unexpectedly fail. How have others handles this type of situation?

I highly recommend Scott Bailey https://www.nh-bes.com/. They designed and installed the septic system for a new outbuilding. I was going to use the excavating contractor for the work but Scott and Chris were less expensive and very timely!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

One issue with Rid-X I have heard is it heats up the system due to the increase in biological actions. This excess heat cause fats and oil that have solidified and sunk in the tank to liquify and flow to the leach field where it resolidifies in the pipes and laterals eventually clogging same. My septic guy recommended against using it.


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I was told beer was great for a septic system. I always dump any old beer down my drain.

[dpg]

You cant just be proactive and get permits "in place" now. Once their issued there's a time limit on them to act or they expire.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I was told beer was great for a septic system. I always dump any old beer down my drain.

'cept my beer never hangs around long enough to get old.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Sorry, but I don't leave remnants of my bowels in the toilet, ever!

If it’s yellow, let it mellow. If it’s brown, flush it down….

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Winilyme

'cept my beer never hangs around long enough to get old.

But it still goes in and out into the toilet!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

If it’s yellow, let it mellow. If it’s brown, flush it down….

I prefer that my toilet water stays clear!

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by dpg

You cant just be proactive and get permits "in place" now. Once their issued there's a time limit on them to act or they expire.

I have been told the plan can be used for up to 4 years from issuance. And if the system isn't installed during the four year period updating the plan and getting a new permit isn’t that costly as much of the work done the first time around is able to be used again.

[retired]

I am by no means an expert. If I were you, I would start by going to your town hall to get a copy of the last septic design/approval on record. As the property owner, it should be no charge. From there you can contact a licensed septic system designer to see if you can replace the leach field under the current regulations. If you want to proceed, you can get an estimate for the replacement. If the dollars are too high, then keep on keepin on.
Good luck.

[ITD]

No, just treat it well. Pump it out every couple years, don’t have a garbage disposal unit attached to it, don’t put grade down it, down put anything but human waste and tp, nothing else. Do this and you should be fine.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ITD

No, just treat it well. Pump it out every couple years, don’t have a garbage disposal unit attached to it, don’t put grade down it, down put anything but human waste and tp, nothing else. Do this and you should be fine.

At 70, I'm terrible at remembering things, always try to make lists now. This past winter I forgot to replace the batteries in my garage thermostat, it went dead while I was away and I had a freeze up.
I just replaced it with a wifi T-stat so I get a warning on my phone now.

[Descant]

Only 70? Oh you kid! Retirement planning should include building a cadre of folks who will either do things automatically or call to remind you. Our handyman calls to change smoke detector batteries, the septic folks send a card every couple of years for a pump out. We put almost everything on autopay so we never get zinged for interest or late fees. The local PD has a wellness check if we fail to call them daily and they do a routine house check if we go away. Not much to remember these days.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

Only 70? Oh you kid! Retirement planning should include building a cadre of folks who will either do things automatically or call to remind you. Our handyman calls to change smoke detector batteries, the septic folks send a card every couple of years for a pump out. We put almost everything on autopay so we never get zinged for interest or late fees. The local PD has a wellness check if we fail to call them daily and they do a routine house check if we go away. Not much to remember these days.

I'm not there yet! I still try to do everything myself, but it is getting more difficult.

[Pineedles]

We started the replacement process 2 years ago and it was installed last year. Expensive $40k but the site plan was excellent and everything was done right.

[Winilyme]

Ditto here. System designed mid-2023 and installed early 2024. Great/responsive site engineer and contractor. It just feels super to have a new system in place that replaces our prior questionable one. Next up - roof maybe? New docking? It just never ends.

[retired]

Seriously, I recommend Brian Bissonnette in Barnstead to replace your system. That is, assuming he is still in business. He replaced our leach field with a pipe and stone system in 2018 for around $14,000 including permitting. He did a fantastic job, in and out in minimum time. BKB Excavation. Check him out.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by retired

I am by no means an expert. If I were you, I would start by going to your town hall to get a copy of the last septic design/approval on record.

The state and towns began keeping records somewhere in the 1980's or thereabouts. Maybe someone can come up with the correct time period.

If it is not broken. Don't fix it.

One problem seen is folks let brush/trees grow up. The roots will destroy leech field. Also keep roots/brush/trees away from all pipes.
Other issues are bleach from washing machine. Kills necessary bacteria.

Here it is mandated that only human waste and tissue paper go down toilet.
If guests stay. Owner needs to be quite clear as to what goes down toilet . And provide other receptacles for all other personal hygiene products.
Not an easy subject to discuss. But needs to be.

My Ambrose system was not pumped for 15 years. Decided to have it pumped. Lamprey came. Told that mine was one of the "cleanest" tanks he had ever pumped. All liquid. So if one is vigilant and has a good system to start. Should be no problems.

[winterharbor59]

Originally Posted by Descant

Only 70? Oh you kid! Retirement planning should include building a cadre of folks who will either do things automatically or call to remind you. Our handyman calls to change smoke detector batteries, the septic folks send a card every couple of years for a pump out. We put almost everything on autopay so we never get zinged for interest or late fees. The local PD has a wellness check if we fail to call them daily and they do a routine house check if we go away. Not much to remember these days.

Which town/PD department does a house check if you go away? That would certainly save a lot of $ on homewatch bills. My friend in Chatham MA has the wellness check if she does not call daily. She’s in poor health & lives alone. But I’ve not heard of this in the lakes region. I’m having a hard time imagining our small Tuftonboro department taking this on. We don’t even have a police officer on duty overnight!


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[Descant]

As you can see from my profile, I'm from Merrimack. Our PD does all the items I mentioned. In the summer, they might walk around the house--winter not so much because deep snow prevents opening gates. Early on, before our road was paved, we were away and within a minute or two of our return there was a patrol car checking to see who the new car was. They keep track of a neighbor who can give keyed access to the house if necessary. At one point, we had a family member on a ventilator. Shortly after he passed, the Fire Dept. called to offer condolences and to see if we no longer needed their emergency generator. We didn't even know we were on the generator list. Haven't seen evidence lately, but Gilford PD used to do a fall check on island properties and leave a note that they had been there. (I don't do the open/close myself anymore, so I wouldn't see the note.)
Anyway, I'd guess most PD's and FD's do a lot that you're not aware of, but you have to call and ask. And some services get discontinued as commercial substitutes become available. In 1963, Merrimack Town Meeting voted to discontinue plowing private driveways. Now, THAT's a real Town Meeting! None of this official ballot wishy washy.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by winterharbor59

Which town/PD department does a house check if you go away? That would certainly save a lot of $ on homewatch bills. My friend in Chatham MA has the wellness check if she does not call daily. She’s in poor health & lives alone. But I’ve not heard of this in the lakes region. I’m having a hard time imagining our small Tuftonboro department taking this on. We don’t even have a police officer on duty overnight!
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The internet has replaced many things and that includes homewatch. The availability of remote monitoring of your home is enough for many people. Connected burglar alarms, thermostats, and cameras make the cost of a homewatch person something many people pass on. You can tell a lot about what is going on with your property when you are not in the area. Sure, it is nice to have someone check on it, but a lot of people are satisfied with what they can see online and forego the expense of homewatch.

Plus, you can check on your property as often as you want with no additional cost. On the really cold days this past winter I sometimes checked the Gilford house thermostat twice a day just to be sure that the heater was operating well.