Huge Commercial Project in West Alton

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The four variances are on the agenda for the June 6 ZBA meeting; should the developer achieve those variances, she will then submit her site plan for review by the Planning Board.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ec697c2c5.html

Headquartered in Boston, Toast Inc (NASDAQ symbol TOST) was founded in 2011 and is capitalized at $14B+. NASADAQ is down a little today, but TOST was up 11.4% when I looked a few minutes ago.. Toast has a variety of software products for restaurant and hospitality management, so it appears they have expertise and funding to do a "fun" project in Alton. I would rather they rebuild Kimball's Castle than develop a rural zoned mountain top in Alton. Or buy the Laconia State School.

[John Mercier]

The problem with LSS, is that the State wants the full boat to cover the risks associated with the mix of historical and environmental negatives on the property. They also want some format of workforce housing in the proposal (not that easy to do with what Toast wants to do) and have encumbered the property with a permanent public access trail even beyond the road to the State park.

The property being proposed hasn't got all those issue with it.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The problem with LSS, is that the State wants the full boat to cover the risks associated with the mix of historical and environmental negatives on the property. They also want some format of workforce housing in the proposal (not that easy to do with what Toast wants to do) and have encumbered the property with a permanent public access trail even beyond the road to the State park.

The property being proposed hasn't got all those issue with it.

But it does have a lot of fired-up abutters, neighbors and taxpayers in Alton and Gilford that are not going to roll over and play dead.

[Slickcraft]

Today I sent an email to Adam Drapcho who wrote the article in today's sun. He was not aware of the opposition. Adam would like to hear from any "opposition leader" and he would consider a follow up article. Adam is a balanced reporter and he was not aware of the opposition. So thoughtful replies are suggested.

His email: ad@laconiadailysun.com

Alan

[John Mercier]

I'm quite certain, but moving from one to the other doesn't really make sense.

And Laconia is going to need to find some land to satisfy HB1361

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I'm quite certain, but moving from one to the other doesn't really make sense.

And Laconia is going to need to find some land to satisfy HB1361

What am I missing? How is this discussion about rural zoning vs. commercial zoning on a mountain top related to developing trailer parks in Laconia? Plenty of places in Belmont.

[John Mercier]

Each municipality must now have some format of access.
Laconia has limited properties that could be considered ''reasonable and realistic'', and has been one of the most vocal municipalities in the Lakes Region on ''workforce housing''.

Since the Mutual Aid doesn't want to move... rezoning for that use would suffice for a while for Laconia.

Since Belmont has a lot of areas that could be, and are, available to manufactured housing or expansion... really not a lot that we have to do.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I'm quite certain, but moving from one to the other doesn't really make sense.

And Laconia is going to need to find some land to satisfy HB1361

And Gilford. More and more large landowners are deeding their land to the Belknap Conservatory.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

Headquartered in Boston, Toast Inc (NASDAQ symbol TOST) was founded in 2011 and is capitalized at $14B+. NASADAQ is down a little today, but TOST was up 11.4% when I looked a few minutes ago.. Toast has a variety of software products for restaurant and hospitality management, so it appears they have expertise and funding to do a "fun" project in Alton. I would rather they rebuild Kimball's Castle than develop a rural zoned mountain top in Alton. Or buy the Laconia State School.

Toast is a terrific company, but it is a software company. They write apps that you might use to order delivery or to pay your bill on one of those electronic hand-helds at a restaurant. As a company, they know nothing about running a hospitality business.

[Descant]

Perhaps I misread the info on products. I understand some Toast products also do "instant inventory control" among other things. Managing finances in a restaurant/hospitality business seems to be a common weakness. Too many think you have to be a good cook, not a good manger, which is why so many restaurants fail. Of course, being under capitalized is an issue too.
In any event, there is some skilled management and some money in the mix here.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

Perhaps I misread the info on products. I understand some Toast products also do "instant inventory control" among other things. Managing finances in a restaurant/hospitality business seems to be a common weakness. Too many think you have to be a good cook, not a good manger, which is why so many restaurants fail. Of course, being under capitalized is an issue too.
In any event, there is some skilled management and some money in the mix here.

Agreed that both are essential. Let's hope they do not get a chance to test themselves here

[John Mercier]

This doesn't in what I have read equate to a restaurant or hotel.
It has an odd feeling like trying to turn an estate into an STR.

Even the glamping operation in the Weirs seems to be discussing something about wedding events.

[retired]

After reading the article in the Sun about the new owners and their plans, I come away with some skepticism. She was a nurse and now that she and her husband have struck it rich, she is now a self proclaimed "developer" looking for a project. She talks about the charm of the Lakes Region and NH. That charm is related to family owned and operated businesses dotting the state. There is no charm in a Walmart or Target. The article didn't say that they are planning to both operate the site and/or live there. It has the feel that they want to build it as a money making scheme and possibly sell it after it is done. Just another out of stater throwing their money around. Maybe it will go the way of Surfcoaster.

[John Mercier]

I don't think sell it.
It seems more like they want a compound that they can lease out.

Its like purchasing a yacht or a jet and then commercializing it as part of a rental fleet.

STR are the same concept. People purchase a vacation home and then rent it out to pay for the property and ongoing costs with the intent to get their week or two free.

It is a different concept than the historical vacation cottage/camp that is shutdown and ''winterized'' while the owners are away.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't think sell it.
It seems more like they want a compound that they can lease out.

Its like purchasing a yacht or a jet and then commercializing it as part of a rental fleet.

STR are the same concept. People purchase a vacation home and then rent it out to pay for the property and ongoing costs with the intent to get their week or two free.

It is a different concept than the historical vacation cottage/camp that is shutdown and ''winterized'' while the owners are away.

Except that if the purchaser is rich enough to buy this, they do not need the cash from the renters. This is very different than the working man who has dreamed of a lake house and stayed up late in his kitchen devising the perfect formula to swing it. So I'm with the folks looking for an ulterior motive

[TomC]

I saw that this development is going to be $50-$60M. Lets make the math easy and say its $52M. Any decent private wealth manager should get an annual return of 10% for his/her client (and maybe more). So the opportunity cost for this 'project' is $5.2M a year in investment earnings... Who really believes this 'wedding venue" is able to bill out $100,000 per week minimum every single week of the year? It doesn't add up...

[John Mercier]

Because it is a private compound that they want to rent out when they are not using it. The focus in not the return on investment from a dollar value.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TomC

I saw that this development is going to be $50-$60M. Lets make the math easy and say its $52M. Any decent private wealth manager should get an annual return of 10% for his/her client (and maybe more). So the opportunity cost for this 'project' is $5.2M a year in investment earnings... Who really believes this 'wedding venue" is able to bill out $100,000 per week minimum every single week of the year? It doesn't add up...

My understanding is that weddings at Church Landing often run $30-$50K. The first year they opened, my daughter got married there, (prices were lower then) they were doing five weddings every weekend. More on holiday weekends. As people get married at older ages now, lavish, destination weddings are common. When you do a destination wedding, the "destination" gets all the $$, photography, rooms, cake, flowers, bar, band, etc. $100K / week doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me.

That being said, I hope the ZBA denies the variance. Wasn't it Alton that wouldn't let Bob Bahre (sp?) show off his car collection as a commercial operation in a residential zone?

[TomC]

Originally Posted by Descant

My understanding is that weddings at Church Landing often run $30-$50K. The first year they opened, my daughter got married there, (prices were lower then) they were doing five weddings every weekend. More on holiday weekends. As people get married at older ages now, lavish, destination weddings are common. When you do a destination wedding, the "destination" gets all the $$, photography, rooms, cake, flowers, bar, band, etc. $100K / week doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me.

That being said, I hope the ZBA denies the variance. Wasn't it Alton that wouldn't let Bob Bahre (sp?) show off his car collection as a commercial operation in a residential zone?

I'll take your word for it on the wedding prices - but your figure is gross revenue I assume. They would have to clear $100K and put it in their pockets - after paying all their expenses - to equal that amount in passive earnings... I still don't see this endeavor making much fiscal sense.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by TomC

I'll take your word for it on the wedding prices - but your figure is gross revenue I assume. They would have to clear $100K and put it in their pockets - after paying all their expenses - to equal that amount in passive earnings... I still don't see this endeavor making much fiscal sense.

Turning expenditures into tax deductions... that doesn't make fiscal sense?

[Billy Bob]

I followed the post and looked up the TOST stock , I found it in use in a few local restaurants, all love this software! Took a small position, sorry I didn’t go in heavier . Please take a look at their recent results.
If nothing else they have a great business going

[retired]

Did anyone see this sign fly by Alton on Saturday?

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by retired

Did anyone see this sign fly by Alton on Saturday?

Yup. We cheered on shore. We are in W Alton and that rich man’s playground would be directly behind us.

Look at the abutting properties. Let’s say this is approved, built as asked or with few changes…and abutters looking for a pay day approach and/or accept a large sum for their properties. Everybody has a price.

From the original development moving down the mountain and over into Gilford and you may see Ames Farm sold. Riley Road surely being eyed as access road… guessing but that’s what I would consider.
I have heard that a few abutters have discussed selling and/or their business guaranteed work during construction if they are pro-project on social media and every day.

But that’s politics and “progress”, right?

[8gv]

Was this the response to the aerial banner?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Yup. We cheered on shore. We are in W Alton and that rich man’s playground would be directly behind us.

Look at the abutting properties. Let’s say this is approved, built as asked or with few changes…and abutters looking for a pay day approach and/or accept a large sum for their properties. Everybody has a price.

From the original development moving down the mountain and over into Gilford and you may see Ames Farm sold. Riley Road surely being eyed as access road… guessing but that’s what I would consider.
I have heard that a few abutters have discussed selling and/or their business guaranteed work during construction if they are pro-project on social media and every day.

But that’s politics and “progress”, right?

Why not wait and see the outcome to the requested changes?

The angst over what ''might'' happen should be less... for something is going to happen. It may not be the current proposal, but it will be some format of development.

[smith point boater]

Yes we have the same picture!! Not sure who paid for this but good for them and a big THANK YOU. Is there a site to contribute to this? Cost shouldn't be borne by one person.

This project will be right above us. I foresee nothing but traffic issues - single lane roads, problems at intersection of 11 and CV Rd and more. Never mind the potential sound and echoing issues

Nip this in the bud at the June 6 meeting

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by Billy Bob

I followed the post and looked up the TOST stock , I found it in use in a few local restaurants, all love this software! Took a small position, sorry I didn’t go in heavier . Please take a look at their recent results.
If nothing else they have a great business going

Good for them. That doesn’t mean we want their development here.

[Riviera]

Originally Posted by Descant

I hope the ZBA denies the variance.

I don’t know what the ZBA might do, but a variance comes with a fairly extensive set of legal criteria that the ZBA must consider. One criteria is that the must be a “hardship” inherent in the land itself. My cursory understanding of the application requests tells me that this will be a tough criteria to meet. Even if the local ZBA sees fit to approve the application, I suspect this would be ripe for an appeal, with a strong probability of the courts overturning the ZBA decision.

Quote frankly, this entire application seems to highlight the applicants limited development experience. Clearly, the personal wealth is there to make it happen, but it’s not going to be much fun getting there, if they get there at all.

[retired]

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone,
They paved paradise, and put up a
Wedding venue / corporate retreat.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Except that if the purchaser is rich enough to buy this, they do not need the cash from the renters. This is very different than the working man who has dreamed of a lake house and stayed up late in his kitchen devising the perfect formula to swing it. So I'm with the folks looking for an ulterior motive

Lots of people rich enough to buy yachts, but they still put them in the rental fleet.
Lots of people rich enough to buy private jets, but they still put them in the rental fleet.

It has tax advantages and lowers the capital opportunity costs.

Example: The capital opportunity cost could be as much as $5.2 million per year.

So building and only living there part time... that is $5.2 million gone, property tax and upkeep gone, and due to income tax policy... they probably could not deduct the full amounts for that either... so more loss.

Leasing it: some recovery of the $5.2 million, and full deductibility of the property taxes and upkeep as a commercial operation.

The dollar amounts are different, but the concept not.
Does it really matter that someone not born here decides to move or build here and spend $100,000 or $100,000,000? Not to us born here.

[sky's]

Originally Posted by retired

After reading the article in the Sun about the new owners and their plans, I come away with some skepticism. She was a nurse and now that she and her husband have struck it rich, she is now a self proclaimed "developer" looking for a project. She talks about the charm of the Lakes Region and NH. That charm is related to family owned and operated businesses dotting the state. There is no charm in a Walmart or Target. The article didn't say that they are planning to both operate the site and/or live there. It has the feel that they want to build it as a money making scheme and possibly sell it after it is done. Just another out of stater throwing their money around. Maybe it will go the way of Surfcoaster.

i couldnt agree more on your reply. my wife just recently moved to sandwhich on cold river and cant be more thankful that we did this. its beautiful out here. Moultonborough use to be like this 20 years ago still a great town but listening to the birds every morning is priceless.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by sky's

i couldnt agree more on your reply. my wife just recently moved to sandwhich on cold river and cant be more thankful that we did this. its beautiful out here. Moultonborough use to be like this 20 years ago still a great town but listening to the birds every morning is priceless.

I agree - I just moved to Sandwich from M'boro as well, primarily to get away from development. I am sure in 30-35 years it will come to Sandwich also, but I'll be in my 'final' piece of real estate by then...