Lakewater-quality to be lower this season?

[madrasahs]

I received an e-mail from my oldest friend living about a ½-mile away at a Winnipesaukee lakefront. He asked if I had ever seen the lake bottom looking so green. (We both go 'way back when the number of homes in our neighborhood could have been counted on one hand).

He's right -- the bottom even at five-feet depth -- is almost chartreuse in color -- like this "face": . I hadn't noticed previously.

In my reply, I theorized that the lack of snow-cover on the ice permitted sunlight through, encouraging the growth of algae. (My Winnipesaukee Aquatherm guy added that the lack of snow-cover this winter also caused septic tank failures -- especially in some new homes).

This early and pervasive start to the algae-odor season may be noticeable sooner in the season than has become usual -- particularly to islanders. Just a heads-up.

[Fat Jack]

I noticed the same thing. I've been on the lake my whole life and have never seen the water this green.

[GWC...]

Doesn't blue plus yellow = green?

What's that old saying about yellow snow?

Guess that special snow melted and found its way into the Lake.

Happy drinking...

[madrasahs]

Winnipesaukee water is fairly clear, but has a brown tinge. (Ask anyone with a water distiller -- like me! )

The water appears green (where the bottom is visible) due to algae growing on the bottom -- and some suspended filaments. The green color is really apparent when flying over Winnipesaukee shorelines.

To boaters, the lake's water appears blue (or grey), as it reflects the blue (or grey) sky. At sunset/sunrise, the water can appear magenta, yellow, or red, depending on the sky color at the time.

My point was that the bottom is covered with a layer of really bright-green algae ( )as I've never seen it before.

[GWC...]

Couldn't resist Fat Jack's wording, "...have never seen the water this green." :rolleyes:

[Grant]

Algae is a growing problem, along with milfoil and the introduction of non-native fish, and quite possibly zebra mussels.

Zebra mussels actually are excellent filters -- there are lots of them in a the local lake where I dive down here, and their introduction has done wonders for clarity. But they are incredibly prolific -- impossible to control, it seems. If allowed to proliferate in Winnipesaukee, the results would be devastating.

The bottom line: It's nearly impossible to control what gets brought into such a large lake. People have to be conscious of what they are bringing in with their boats. Bilge water is a huge culprit.

[madrasahs]

(Last summer, two lakes in New Hampshire killed some animals due to microcystis).

"...According to Michigan Sea Grant, the presence of zebra mussels has been confirmed in at least 75 inland lakes throughout the state.

The mussels eat virtually everything they can filter - except for microcystis, which they spit out. The theory is that the mussels help foster a blue-green algae bloom by reducing competing algae.

That can mean trouble. Microcystis actually is a bacterium. It occurs naturally in most lakes at low concentrations. But large blooms are cropping up in lakes that don't normally have them.

When large concentrations of microcystis occur the water has a bright bluish-green or yellow-green color. This dramatic coloration has been described as looking like a paint spill on the water's surface. Several algae blooms have been reported to state and local emergency response agencies as paint spills."

[islandAl]

Warnings were posted this weekend 9/30/06, at Lees Mills landing about toxic levels of Blue Green Algae scum. Do not swim (little cold anyway) but also for the islands, to be careful of using the lake water for washing.

[mg2107]

Not much longer before we will be required to dump large truck loads of chlorine in the lake to keep Massachusetts swimming pool pristine.

[Merrymeeting]

MG,

Yet another example of unnecessary MA-bashing. I fail to see how this enters the discussion.

A bigger improvement would be to arm DES to enforce the laws already in place, especially the ones concerning fertilizer use and clear-cutting. I have to believe these are having a bigger impact than anything else.

I submitted a notice of non-permitted clear cutting earlier this year. It was rejected by DES because of an administrivia mistake on the form. In checking with someone I know connected with the department, the suspected reason for the return was because the issue wasn't massive enough to command the attention of the stretched staff already in place. So, we watch the lakes quality deteriorate bit by bit, 100 feet at a time.

[Rayhunt]

http://www.des.state.nh.us/factsheets/bb/bb-6.htm

[mg2107]

I would think that the greater preponderance of the fertilizers and clear cutters are ma. residents or recent immigrants.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

"...I submitted a notice of non-permitted clear cutting earlier this year. It was rejected by DES because of an administrivia mistake on the form..."

I was sent a five-part DES form to fill out regarding obvious shoreland protection violations seen from my boat about five years ago.

The microscopic detail demanded on the form were so intimidating, I couldn't provide enough data on the form to even make an "administrivia mistake"!

DES has always answered my telephoning of violations with polite responses. The latest response to a builder's lakefront violations was, "To make an omelete, first you must break an egg".

[secondcurve]

MG2107:

You will note that clear cutting isn't a problem on Maine's lakes. As you may be aware, there are more than a few waterfront homeowners from Massachusetts there as well. Why isn't clear cutting a problem in Maine? Simply, the voters of Maine don't allow it to happen. Get the point? It is the people that VOTE in a state that make the laws. Take some responsibility instead of blaming people who have no say in the matter. Live Free of Die is great in many instances, but it also has a definite downside.

[Pineedles]

Is there no correlation between the number of "lawns" that now exist at the lakefront than those that were present 10, 20, or 30 years ago? An aerial or satellite map could show whether there is more "green" on the lakefront then had existed before.

Speaking from personal experience, our "other" place that was sold in the late 80's has a lawn, where for 50 years before, it was just pine needles. I'm no enviro wacko, but I'm wondering if I may have been wrong? I still need the evidence though.

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Is there no correlation between the number of "lawns" that now exist at the lakefront than those that were present 10, 20, or 30 years ago? An aerial or satellite map could show whether there is more "green" on the lakefront then had existed before.

Speaking from personal experience, our "other" place that was sold in the late 80's has a lawn, where for 50 years before, it was just pine needles. I'm no enviro wacko, but I'm wondering if I may have been wrong? I still need the evidence though.

Acid rain has done and will do much more damage to the lake

[Lakegeezer]

The increase in heavy displacement boats is churning up the bottom near the shore much more than in the past. Perhaps this is some of the cause of decreased water quality?

The water has cleared up quite a bit in the past few weeks after the weekly stirring all summer. While there are many more lawns than in the past, I think most people understand the rules about fertilizer. But, so much formerly undeveloped land is now developed; the increase in runoff has to also be part of the problem.

I’m glad someone is monitoring the quality year over year. At some point, this information will be useful in crafting new regulations that reduce the decline of water quality.

[Onshore]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

MG,

I submitted a notice of non-permitted clear cutting earlier this year. It was rejected by DES because of an administrivia mistake on the form. In checking with someone I know connected with the department, the suspected reason for the return was because the issue wasn't massive enough to command the attention of the stretched staff already in place. So, we watch the lakes quality deteriorate bit by bit, 100 feet at a time.

Was that the cutting on North Shore Road?

[SIKSUKR]

I wonder if there really IS more fertilizer entering the lake than 50 years ago.The regulations of septic in the past 20 years are much more stringent.I bet there was a lot more sewage ending up in the lake back in the good old days.As far as the lawn fertilizer runoff,I would guess there were a lot more farms around the lake back then that leached lots of these components to the lake.I here a lot of complaints about the McMansion people only using their houses for a few weeks a year.Well,I would think that would put a lot less strain on that piece of property than the antiquated sewage systems that were in place there before they were torn down.I don't,but it's something to think about.

[Rayhunt]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I wonder if there really IS more fertilizer entering the lake than 50 years ago.The regulations of septic in the past 20 years are much more stringent.I bet there was a lot more sewage ending up in the lake back in the good old days.As far as the lawn fertilizer runoff,I would guess there were a lot more farms around the lake back then that leached lots of these components to the lake.I here a lot of complaints about the McMansion people only using their houses for a few weeks a year.Well,I would think that would put a lot less strain on that piece of property than the antiquated sewage systems that were in place there before they were torn down.I don't,but it's something to think about.

You are absolutely correct .. Up until the seventies and in some areas the 80's second stage effluent was dumped directly into winnipesaukee and yes years ago most of the land around the lake was clearcut pasture.
The real problem we face at present is from acid rain

[Mee-n-Mac]

Good points and let me add 1 more. I wonder how many of the septic systems installed in the old "camps", say 30 - 50 years ago, are now past their lifetime and are failing and leaking into the lake ? While new systems are likely to be very good, how many people are getting by with marginal systems ? How would one even know if one had a "leaking" septic system ? I don't think DES tests for E-coli at random spots on the lake to try to detect a problem ... or do they ?

[mcdude]

Mac:
I'm not sure about the BIG lake (and it isn't listed) but for the past two years I have participated in the Volunteer Lake Assessment Program (VLAP) on my little lake. Among other samples taken and sent to the state lab are samples taken at the inlet of each of the three streams as they come into the lake and then another sample is taken from a few hundred yards up the stream as well. One of the tests they run on these samples is for e-coli and in this way they can pinpoint the location of possible infiltration into the lake.
McD

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by mg2107

I would think that the greater preponderance of the fertilizers and clear cutters are ma. residents or recent immigrants.

To all of you that are Ma. bashers beware.....On my road which will remain nameless the places with the nice green lawns and have had substantial numbers of trees removed are all owned by NH residents. A couple of which have lived in NH all there lives.... Don't point fingers, this problem is one that requires alot of education for EVERYONE!!!!! luckly my nieghbors don't seem to fertilize much, but if they did you better believe I would talk to them....As for clear cutting once again education.... I didn't realize all the rules that where in place until I was doing some research this year.....but also remember that some trees have to come down....otherwise you have a bunch of old tall trees and when they die there is nothing to take there place....As for myself I try to keep the young ones growing and take down and old one or two every few years as neccessary to keep things growing and healthy.......

And oh by the way mg2107.....I am not a NH resident

[Grant]

Higher levels of nutrients in the Lake come from a variety of sources -- fertilizer, septic systems, etc. But, like someone said earlier, the systems installed today must conform to stricter codes than those constructed, say, 30, 40, 50 or more years ago. Bottom line is that there are more people on the Lake -- lots more. And more people means more building, more lawns, more stuff making its way into the Lake. More hard surfaces (roads, sidewalks, roofs, driveways, contribute to run-off...so more stuff makes its way into the Lake. DES could make a difference, I suppose. But, ultimately, money talks and people who want to build, and who have the money, will build.

I, for one, certainly don't want a lawn to cut while up at the Lake. Hell no.

[mg2107]

Grant hit the nail on the head. It's not how the lake is exploited its the over whelming extent of the exploitation. A saturation point is being reached by overcutting ,over building, and over using the resource. Most of the people who can afford these luxurys are out of staters or recent transplants. Its not a simple case of Mass. bashing.

[secondcurve]

"It's not a simple case of Mass. bashing."

Oh, I am glad to hear there are other elements to the problem and it is not solely due to out of staters from Massachusetts like me and half the folks on this board. Thanks for the clarification.

[Pineedles]

That's not a Zip Code folks. It's the first recorded record of my family"s prescence in the new world. So, I guess I qualify as one of those evil people from MASS. Sorry, but I now live in CT, I grew up in NJ. SO STOP THE STATE BASHING Y'ALL. We need to find out whether this Lake we love is getting sicker or is it OK. The environment changes over many many life times and historical tracking is very difficult. Responsible monitoring is the way to help us all let our future generations enjoy the Lake.

[party.of.five]

Originally Posted by mg2107

Not much longer before we will be required to dump large truck loads of chlorine in the lake to keep Massachusetts swimming pool pristine.

Nah, I have a swimming pool in my backyard in MA to dump truckloads of chlorine into.

The MA bashing bothers me for one simple reason: I am paying taxes in NH which contribute to the schools, road maintenance, police and other emergency services. Don't take my money (which I have no say in the spending of, by the way) and then complain about me using "your" lake as my "swimming pool."

[Pineedles]

I think that most of those that blame MASS people just do that because they're just to lazy to include the other 48 states. It is tough, not having the right to vote in NH but think about it, what state allows you dual citizenship?

[party.of.five]

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I don't want dual state citizenship. I *like* Massachusetts. I like voting where I live. It's all good.

But it is very frustrating to hear over and over again that the lake is the MA swimming pool and we're exploiting resources just by being here. I pay taxes in NH just like the guy who lives there full-time. I don't want a vote. I don't even want credit for paying taxes. I just want not to be insulted and blamed for everything that is wrong with the "swimming pool."

[islandAl]

People not on public water supplies should not drink surface water, even if it is treated, during an algal bloom because in-home treatments such as boiling and disinfecting water with chlorine
or UV and water filtration units do not protectpeople from blue-green algal toxins.

[islandAl]

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh...greenalgae.htm

This happens to be a NY report, but the algae is the same. Opens to almost blank page, but scroll down to the report.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by mcdude

Mac:
I'm not sure about the BIG lake (and it isn't listed) but for the past two years I have participated in the Volunteer Lake Assessment Program (VLAP) on my little lake. Among other samples taken and sent to the state lab are samples taken at the inlet of each of the three streams as they come into the lake and then another sample is taken from a few hundred yards up the stream as well. One of the tests they run on these samples is for e-coli and in this way they can pinpoint the location of of possible infiltration into the lake.
McD

While straying a bit here perhaps this is a good time for some brainstorming. I recall the request for VLAP volunteers on one of your other websites. It seemed to me at that time that while a good idea, it was such a small sampling, so infrequently done, that on Winni it wouldn't get "the job" done. I asked myself how could such tasks be automated for little $$s such that they could be done more often, at more places so as to get a good database. Part of the testing was measuring water turbidity (clarity) and that's pretty easy to do electronically and cheaply. Fact is it's been done and can be correlated to the standard SECCHI disk measurements. Measuring pH and conductivity could also be done about as easily I reckon. The part I couldn't get handle on was measuring chlorophyll and other biological and chemical properties. Given these would still require that people go out and samples be taken I didn't see any great improvement from getting more turbidity data. Perhaps there's more that could be done automagically or perhaps turbidity by itself has some value. I dunno.

ps - I'd design the equipment in the link somewhat differently and surely less expensively. Attach such probes to markers and add a solar cell for power, MCU for control and data storage. Depending on what's desired for measurement frequency and ease of retrieval ... perhaps as low as $50 for each "station".

[Lin]

Here are some resource lists for information and/or getting involved with the lake and water quality issues. As a co-founder of two watershed groups i'd urge anyone that uses the lake for recreation to get involved. It's all of our responsibilities to help keep water clean and flowing for future generations whether you are from NH or 3,000 miles or more away. And it's not just Winni that needs protection, even your backyard stream - leaking septic systems, fertilizer, pesticides, animal feces, oil, gas, non-point sources (not exactly on the border of a lake or river but that can drain via street or drain runoffs) and many other sources can contaminate or have impacts on our water quality. Many streams like the river I have a watershed group for, are in serious flow issues. Our river, the Sudbury in MA, actually dried up in 1999 for 200' on the mainstem and no one ever remembered it doing that. We need our water for survival first and foremost but recreation comes very rapidly after that. So hopefully this dialouge on this thread will get more people involved, even if it is just as a volunteer monitor or someone to pick up water and soda for groups on a cleanup day. Everyone is always needed.

http://www.winnipesaukee.org

http://www.des.state.nh.us/winni

http://www.usawaterquality.org/NewEn...hampshire.html

http://www.des.state.nh.us/factsheets/bb/bb-26.htm

http://www.winnipesaukee.org/pdf/WinVRAPReport04.pdf

http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/t.../detweed.shtml
http://www.nhlakes.org/ed_h20_qual.htm

http://www.wrrc.unh.edu/index.htm

[Pineedles]

Lin, I looked at the Winn. org site under "Keeping the lake clean" section and I must confess to 2 infractions that I won't do anymore. Yes, I used to occasionally throw my cigar butts into the water thinking that they were biodegradable. Second, although I used Ivory soap I have bathed in the lake. This will be a toughy to adhere to, given my size and the 3'x3' shower the cottage has but I'll try. But I am complying with the following:

inspecting seasonal septic every 3 years
replacing wooden raft with plastic floatation device
and most importantly never, never, ever buying a fake Christmas tree.


THANKS FOR YOUR POST.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

"...An aerial or satellite map could show whether there is more "green" on the lakefront then had existed before.

Speaking from personal experience, our "other" place that was sold in the late 80's has a lawn, where for 50 years before, it was just pine needles. I'm no enviro wacko, but I'm wondering if I may have been wrong? I still need the evidence though.

From my point of view, you are right: more than anything, a pine needle mat is what's needed for filtering water runoff into lakes.

Two of the cleanest lakes in the Winnipesaukee Basin drain through Wolfeboro's Back Bay. Those lakes have many ancient septic systems , but are surrounded with "Cathedral" piney lots with dense pine needle mats.

It is also surrounded with boggy "wetlands", which are also good filters. A huge development slated for their southeast quadrant threatens at least one wetland's ability to filter lakewater. (DES stopped a previous illegal bulldozing at the same site a few years ago.)

Back Bay (and Wolfeboro Bay) has changed from the day I took this aerial photograph. The Wolfeboro Bay bottom is now muddy with silt, and Back Bay water is not the waterskier's first choice for skiing any longer. It is a good place to grow and spread milfoil, though.

From this large aerial taken years ago, you can see an undeveloped Back Bay as a shrub- and tree-lined channel in the near-center-left of the picture.