West Alton Marina Manager finally indicted

tis · 04-23-2023, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If an LLC member personally guarantees a business's loans or obligations, he or she will be held liable for any default. An LLC won't protect a member who commits a wrongful act or is negligent in a way that results in harm to another person, such as fraud or assault. In a lawsuit you usually name anyone who may have any liability at the beginning and then it gets sorted out by the court and the lawyers as the case proceeds.

In my experience with commercial loans the bank almost always has you sign personally for any credit extended. One would think that was the case with the $8.5 million in loans.

Yes i agree they most likely signed a personal guarantee, and would be responsible for any loans or obligations, but if they did, it makes you wonder why they even ran the business as an LLC. But I can't imagine a bank loaning that kind of money without having a personal guarantee. That's what I'm wondering since it was allegedly a wrongful act, could the LLC and therefore the real estate, be taken and sold to pay accusers. I guess as you said, it will get sorted out.

LikeLakes · 04-23-2023, 06:10 PM

The assets will definitely be in play assuming victims win settlements on this.

As to why it's an LLC, that's the appropriate entity, hard to find a reason to have any other sort of entity for a private company these days.

LikeLakes · 04-23-2023, 06:15 PM

Personally speaking, and just to be clear I'm not a client of WAM ... I don't hold it against anyone for either keeping their slip there or someone new taking a space. Say someone has had a slip for years there, enjoyed it with their family, the location and services work well for them. I don't feel it's anyone's obligation to leave. The idea of "don't give any money to the family" is valid if you feel that way, but I don't feel that anyone should be made to feel bad for staying.

John Mercier · 04-23-2023, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

The assets will definitely be in play assuming victims win settlements on this.

As to why it's an LLC, that's the appropriate entity, hard to find a reason to have any other sort of entity for a private company these days.

Three of the civil cases already entered asset agreement last October. Those cases are now complete.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9ce12bcc3.html

LikeLakes · 04-23-2023, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Three of the civil cases already entered asset agreement last October. Those cases are now complete.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9ce12bcc3.html

Wait, the civil suits aren't settled, are they? Doesn't this simply say the attachment of assets is approved, meaning the marina can't sell or convey assets without notice to the plaintiffs?

John Mercier · 04-23-2023, 07:58 PM

The attachments were filed with the original suits.
These are the settled asset agreements.

"The agreement states the marina will not sell, transfer or allow another individual or organization to make a claim on any real estate or other property without giving the plaintiffs at least 45 days notice of such action to give the defendants time to ask the court to impose an attachment. In return, the three plaintiffs removed motions for attachments filed earlier this year."

The lawsuits remain. But the marina can remain doing business... and speculation to an outside buyer is moot.

An attachment could stop the marina from having the necessary cashflow to operate... doing any maintenance or upgrade.

The problem the marina will have is hiring employees.
Low cost seasonal employees are at a premium - very hard to find.

Descant · 04-24-2023, 10:05 AM

If this were a trailer park, I believe the tenants can get together and have a purchase priority. Can that law be extended to the marina tenants? I see some similarities.

On the $8.5 million debt--Has that been expended or is it held by the bank(s) as available for expansion projects?

If there are mechanical /maintenance problems, what plumber or electrician will want to work there to fix it unless there is sufficient working capital to pay in advance? Could that force a shutdown?

This is going to be a windfall for attorneys and accounting firms, never mind the criminal lawyers.

Cobaltdeadhead · 04-24-2023, 12:09 PM

Pretty certain that unless it is a condo type situation like MT View where the slips are owned, that the rights of renters at a marina are very limited. Tenants at will

LikeLakes · 04-24-2023, 12:59 PM

I think Cobalt is right. Nothing at all like a trailer park that transitions to a ROC (resident owned community).

It is in the best interests of the people who have attached the marina for it to continue to operate, so I would be very surprised if all maintenance contractors were not paid as promised. I don't think this is a bankruptcy yet so they don't get bankruptcy protection though. I guess if it was me I'd see if there is any court ordered protection for contractors, and if not would only do work paid in advance.

LIforrelaxin · 04-24-2023, 01:49 PM

This is a most unfortunately situation.

The bottom line however is that the Marina will live on, even once the dust settles.... Now could it go from being privately owned to something else? Possibly dependent on how the court cases go, the family may have to sell at least part of the entity to investors to raise capitol, or they could elect to sell the entire thing.

However this is America, Innocent until proven guilty...... so the family is doing what they must which is continuing to move forward with the expansion of their business.....Has this situation hurt the business, I am sure it has....But at the end of the day, they have a facility on a lake that has a shortage of slips as it is.... They aren't going to be my first choice for gas or service, but if they are the only option open to me, I would prefer to be boating.......

Mr. V · 04-24-2023, 01:55 PM

It's a family LLC, I assume the perp owns a proportionate number of shares in the LLC.

I believe the best result would be to have his shares sold to the highest bidder, and have the proceeds distributed to the claimants without touching the shares of other family members: why should they suffer because of their sibling's actions?

Are they really their brother's keeper?

They probably cannot buy him out but perhaps with a loan from a bank they could, otherwise an outside can weasel their way in.

Major · 04-24-2023, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. V

It's a family LLC, I assume the perp owns a proportionate number of shares in the LLC.

I believe the best result would be to have his shares sold to the highest bidder, and have the proceeds distributed to the claimants without touching the shares of other family members: why should they suffer because of their sibling's actions?

Are they really their brother's keeper?

They probably cannot buy him out but perhaps with a loan from a bank they could, otherwise an outside can weasel their way in.

Although magnanimous, this is not how corporations work. Unfortunately, the misdeeds of one owner are the responsibilities of the other owners. As a small business owner I know this all too well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mr. V · 04-25-2023, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major

Although magnanimous, this is not how corporations work. Unfortunately, the misdeeds of one owner are the responsibilities of the other owners. As a small business owner I know this all too well.

Has the corporation been charged with a crime or sued yet?

MY analysis assumed not.

John Mercier · 04-26-2023, 10:32 PM

I believe the suits named the LLC... because of the asset agreements.
The LLC was their employer, and thus had some duty of care for the work environment.

TiltonBB · 06-21-2024, 05:10 AM

Juror misconduct: Stand by for a new trial.

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...59da08dc8.html

ishoot308 · 06-21-2024, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Juror misconduct: Stand by for a new trial.

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...59da08dc8.html

Unbelievable! If you have money you can get away with anything! This POS should rot in jail!

Dan

codeman671 · 02-10-2025, 11:13 PM

WMUR just reported that all charges against Fortier have been dropped. The witness doesn’t want to have to go though the process of testifying again and without it there is no basis for a case.

Garcia · 02-11-2025, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

WMUR just reported that all charges against Fortier have been dropped. The witness doesn’t want to have to go though the process of testifying again and without it there is no basis for a case.

Sad. I see the same thing happening a couple towns over. The defense attorney keeps protracting the process (it's been years) and now the victim just wants to move on. A plea might be in the works, at a greatly reduced sentence. I don't blame the victim for not wanting to testify - the process is flawed.

jeffk · 04-24-2023, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

This is a most unfortunately situation.

The bottom line however is that the Marina will live on, even once the dust settles.... Now could it go from being privately owned to something else? Possibly dependent on how the court cases go, the family may have to sell at least part of the entity to investors to raise capitol, or they could elect to sell the entire thing.
...
But at the end of the day, they have a facility on a lake that has a shortage of slips as it is.... They aren't going to be my first choice for gas or service, but if they are the only option open to me, I would prefer to be boating.......

This seems to me to be a reasonable assessment.

Other have been saying the Marina could be "gone" but it seems to me that if there is a judgement against the assets of the marina, the LLC could finance or sell to get the funds. If outright sold, it is possible that the new owner could decide to close the marina and build something more valuable, like condos with water access. I have NO IDEA of what is feasible or would be most profitable but one option for a new owner would be to continue to operate the marina and put a new management team in place.

We have no idea what responsibility and what penalty will be assessed to the LLC. The legal process, by calling out the assets of the LLC, has stated that those assets MAY BE encumbered and therefore the LLC needs to keep the victims informed of their status. That's a reasonable and common thing to do.

Poor Richard · 04-25-2023, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The bottom line however is that the Marina will live on, even once the dust settles.... Now could it go from being privately owned to something else? Possibly dependent on how the court cases go, the family may have to sell at least part of the entity to investors to raise capitol, or they could elect to sell the entire thing.

I've been wondering how far away a bankruptcy filing is in all this.

root1 · 04-25-2023, 08:25 AM

It seems that these kind of situations result in the entirety of the defendant's assets being liquidated to pay for legal fees ..... the trials will go on until there is no more money to pay the lawyers & victims.

TiltonBB · 04-23-2023, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Yes i agree they most likely signed a personal guarantee, and would be responsible for any loans or obligations, but if they did, it makes you wonder why they even ran the business as an LLC. But I can't imagine a bank loaning that kind of money without having a personal guarantee. That's what I'm wondering since it was allegedly a wrongful act, could the LLC and therefore the real estate, be taken and sold to pay accusers. I guess as you said, it will get sorted out.

Because if something happened at the marina like someone fell down and got hurt, or they dropped a boat and damaged it, the liability would be limited to the marina and their insurance company, and not them personally. However when coupled with the alleged crimes that changes things.

Obviously, you can sue anyone, but getting a successful outcome in court may be a different thing. (OJ told me that)

04-24-2023, 01:49 PM	#10
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,870 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 892 Times in 524 Posts	This is a most unfortunately situation. The bottom line however is that the Marina will live on, even once the dust settles.... Now could it go from being privately owned to something else? Possibly dependent on how the court cases go, the family may have to sell at least part of the entity to investors to raise capitol, or they could elect to sell the entire thing. However this is America, Innocent until proven guilty...... so the family is doing what they must which is continuing to move forward with the expansion of their business.....Has this situation hurt the business, I am sure it has....But at the end of the day, they have a facility on a lake that has a shortage of slips as it is.... They aren't going to be my first choice for gas or service, but if they are the only option open to me, I would prefer to be boating....... __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

04-24-2023, 01:55 PM	#11
Mr. V Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton Posts: 1,388 Thanks: 63 Thanked 253 Times in 172 Posts	It's a family LLC, I assume the perp owns a proportionate number of shares in the LLC. I believe the best result would be to have his shares sold to the highest bidder, and have the proceeds distributed to the claimants without touching the shares of other family members: why should they suffer because of their sibling's actions? Are they really their brother's keeper? They probably cannot buy him out but perhaps with a loan from a bank they could, otherwise an outside can weasel their way in. __________________ basking in the benign indifference of the universe

06-21-2024, 05:10 AM	#15
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 2,987 Thanks: 695 Thanked 2,193 Times in 929 Posts	Fortier conviction vacated Juror misconduct: Stand by for a new trial. From the Laconia Sun: https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...59da08dc8.html

04-23-2023, 06:10 PM	#2
LikeLakes Senior Member Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 339 Thanks: 50 Thanked 92 Times in 66 Posts	The assets will definitely be in play assuming victims win settlements on this. As to why it's an LLC, that's the appropriate entity, hard to find a reason to have any other sort of entity for a private company these days.

04-23-2023, 06:15 PM	#3
LikeLakes Senior Member Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 339 Thanks: 50 Thanked 92 Times in 66 Posts	Personally speaking, and just to be clear I'm not a client of WAM ... I don't hold it against anyone for either keeping their slip there or someone new taking a space. Say someone has had a slip for years there, enjoyed it with their family, the location and services work well for them. I don't feel it's anyone's obligation to leave. The idea of "don't give any money to the family" is valid if you feel that way, but I don't feel that anyone should be made to feel bad for staying.

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04-23-2023, 07:58 PM	#6
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,354 Thanks: 3 Thanked 592 Times in 488 Posts	The attachments were filed with the original suits. These are the settled asset agreements. "The agreement states the marina will not sell, transfer or allow another individual or organization to make a claim on any real estate or other property without giving the plaintiffs at least 45 days notice of such action to give the defendants time to ask the court to impose an attachment. In return, the three plaintiffs removed motions for attachments filed earlier this year." The lawsuits remain. But the marina can remain doing business... and speculation to an outside buyer is moot. An attachment could stop the marina from having the necessary cashflow to operate... doing any maintenance or upgrade. The problem the marina will have is hiring employees. Low cost seasonal employees are at a premium - very hard to find.

04-24-2023, 10:05 AM	#7
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,337 Thanks: 1,339 Thanked 1,620 Times in 1,052 Posts	If this were a trailer park, I believe the tenants can get together and have a purchase priority. Can that law be extended to the marina tenants? I see some similarities. On the $8.5 million debt--Has that been expended or is it held by the bank(s) as available for expansion projects? If there are mechanical /maintenance problems, what plumber or electrician will want to work there to fix it unless there is sufficient working capital to pay in advance? Could that force a shutdown? This is going to be a windfall for attorneys and accounting firms, never mind the criminal lawyers.

04-24-2023, 12:09 PM	#8
Cobaltdeadhead Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 38 Times in 17 Posts	Pretty certain that unless it is a condo type situation like MT View where the slips are owned, that the rights of renters at a marina are very limited. Tenants at will

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04-24-2023, 12:59 PM	#9
LikeLakes Senior Member Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 339 Thanks: 50 Thanked 92 Times in 66 Posts	I think Cobalt is right. Nothing at all like a trailer park that transitions to a ROC (resident owned community). It is in the best interests of the people who have attached the marina for it to continue to operate, so I would be very surprised if all maintenance contractors were not paid as promised. I don't think this is a bankruptcy yet so they don't get bankruptcy protection though. I guess if it was me I'd see if there is any court ordered protection for contractors, and if not would only do work paid in advance.

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04-26-2023, 10:32 PM	#14
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,354 Thanks: 3 Thanked 592 Times in 488 Posts	I believe the suits named the LLC... because of the asset agreements. The LLC was their employer, and thus had some duty of care for the work environment.

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02-10-2025, 11:13 PM	#17
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,486 Thanks: 221 Thanked 810 Times in 486 Posts	WMUR just reported that all charges against Fortier have been dropped. The witness doesn’t want to have to go though the process of testifying again and without it there is no basis for a case.

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04-25-2023, 08:25 AM	#21
root1 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 68 Thanks: 24 Thanked 23 Times in 17 Posts	It seems that these kind of situations result in the entirety of the defendant's assets being liquidated to pay for legal fees ..... the trials will go on until there is no more money to pay the lawyers & victims.