issues at State School near Paugus Bay

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/04/...nity-pressure/

Behind a paywall. Interesting. I didn't know anyone would pay for the Boston Globe!

[Cobalt 25]

If you don't know why anyone would pay for the Boston Globe, why did you click on it?

[FlyingScot]

I used to grumble about the Globe--but under John Henry they have done an extraordinarily good job of maintaining local coverage while the vast majority of newspapers have just been crushed by the internet. I recommend an online subscription to anyone interested in Massachusetts, and I think they've recently increased their NH reporting. Here's the important piece Cobalt cited:


Police investigation into racist graffiti in N.H. comes months after it was reported and only after community pressure
By Amanda Gokee Globe Staff,Updated April 4, 2023, 6:11 p.m.


Laconia’s police chief said he started investigating incidents of racist graffiti on the grounds of the abandoned State School property immediately after receiving a police report in March, but records show the police department had a report on file months before the investigation began.

In a March interview, Chief Matt Canfield told the Globe the issue was brought to his attention early that month and that the Laconiapolice initiated an investigation as soon as it was reported. Canfield said the investigation would be difficult because of how old the graffiti is — it started occurring last summer on the abandoned State School property ― but some incidents were as recent as December.

Records obtained by the Globe show the graffiti was reported to the police on Dec. 25, 2022, about two months before the investigation launched. The police report said Tristan Chase reported finding racist graffiti at the school, where he works a few days a week as a groundskeeper. The state is in the process of selling the property.

Laconia Officer Beau Perras went to the State School to take the report. A pump house wall near the State School’s water tower had been tagged with a swastika and graffiti that read “Fascist 131 Zone,” according to the report and photos taken by Chase. Perras wrote that he then searched online and found it was possibly connected to the National Social Club NSC-131 based in New England. Three days later, Perras spoke with Chase and learned that the property has no surveillance cameras. With no leads on a suspect, Perras requested suspending the case until more information “is forthcoming.”

The police department had no reports on record from Lois Kessin, a Jewish resident of Laconia who has been pushing the town to hold the vandals accountable. In March, Kessin told the Globe she had reported the incident to the police in February.

Canfield did not respond to a request for comment on the Dec. 25 police report and the timing of the police investigation. Mayor Andrew Hosmer could not immediately be reached for comment.

David Stamps, the chair of Laconia’s Human Relations Committee, said he isn’t aware of additional graffiti incidents in Laconia since the investigation launched. The committee is working with Temple B’nai Israel on a Holocaust remembrance event May 6 at The Congregational Church of Laconia.

“I had a conversation with the chief and supposedly they’re going to take the next report that comes in a little more seriously,” Stamp said.

Amanda Gokee can be reached at amanda.gokee@globe.com.Follow her on Twitter @amanda_gokee.

[John Mercier]

Daily Sun carried an article on it weeks ago.

[SAMIAM]

What a surprise that the Globe sees a racist behind every tree.
I really don't think any organized group would trudge up to the State School and paint graffiti where no one would be likely to see it.
Pretty clear that it was just some bored kids trying to stir the adults up.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

If you don't know why anyone would pay for the Boston Globe, why did you click on it?

I would give a complete answer but that type of discussion is not what this site is for. I clicked on the link quickly before I noticed it was from the Boston Globe Democrat. My bad!

However, I will say that I lost interest in the Globe and questioned it's credibility when they fired long time columnist Mike Barnicle for his dishonesty, and it went downhill from there.

End of discussion.

[ApS]

It may come as a surprise that MS-13 "tagged" the north end of the Wolfeboro railroad station--back about 15 years. MS-13 gang members were stopped north of Wolfeboro shortly after the vandalism appeared.

It sure surprised me, as the only other MS-13 "taggings" had appeared previously on Miami's street signs and walled enclosures.

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I would give a complete answer but that type of discussion is not what this site is for. I clicked on the link quickly before I noticed it was from the Boston Globe Democrat. My bad. However, I will say that I lost interest in the Globe and questioned it's credibility when they fired long time columnist Mike Barnicle for his dishonesty, and it went downhill from there. End of discussion.

Mike Barnicle should have received support from his allied "newspapers", The Washington Post and LA Times, but they weren't at all supportive. Fact-checkers did their jobs back then.

It's clear that he plagiarized heavily and wrote fictionized accounts:

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/stor...l/50559403007/

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by ApS

It may come as a surprise that MS-13 "tagged" the north end of the Wolfeboro railroad station--back about 15 years. MS-13 gang members were stopped north of Wolfeboro shortly after the vandalism appeared.

It sure surprised me, as the only other MS-13 "taggings" had appeared previously on Miami's street signs and walled enclosures.

Mike Barnicle should have received support from his allied "newspapers", The Washington Post and LA Times, but they weren't at all supportive. Fact-checkers did their jobs back then.

It's clear that he plagiarized heavily and wrote fictionized accounts:

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/stor...l/50559403007/

Adopting their verbiage, e.g., “tagging” just minimizes it. It’s graffiti, vandalism, trespassing. Same thing with “transitioning” for sex changes, “trans” for transsexuals, “drag green” for transvestite, “porn actress” for video prostitute, etc. lol


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[Major]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

If you don't know why anyone would pay for the Boston Globe, why did you click on it?

Probably because Tilton thought he didn't have to pay to read a news article.

Although I haven't been following this story, to the best of my knowledge they haven't caught the perpetrator. My first reaction when I read the story in the LDS was that it was a fake hate crime.

Unfortunately, the demand for stories about and examples of racism far exceeds its supply. Our media is quick to eat this stuff up. It is designed to further divide us, which makes for great copy.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

Probably because Tilton thought he didn't have to pay to read a news article.

Although I haven't been following this story, to the best of my knowledge they haven't caught the perpetrator. My first reaction when I read the story in the LDS was that it was a fake hate crime.

Unfortunately, the demand for stories about and examples of racism far exceeds its supply. Our media is quick to eat this stuff up. It is designed to further divide us, which makes for great copy.

All news media is guilty of this, whether it leans right or left!

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

All news media is guilty of this, whether it leans right or left!

I don't disagree!

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Major

Probably because Tilton thought he didn't have to pay to read a news article.

Although I haven't been following this story, to the best of my knowledge they haven't caught the perpetrator. My first reaction when I read the story in the LDS was that it was a fake hate crime.

Unfortunately, the demand for stories about and examples of racism far exceeds its supply. Our media is quick to eat this stuff up. It is designed to further divide us, which makes for great copy.

Major I think you’ll agree that there should be no such thing as a hate crime. Motive is not an element of any other type of crime because it’s unconstitutional to punish thoughts. I’ve always been amazed who such laws withstand scrutiny.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Major I think you’ll agree that there should be no such thing as a hate crime. Motive is not an element of any other type of crime because it’s unconstitutional to punish thoughts. I’ve always been amazed who such laws withstand scrutiny.


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That’s an interesting aspect that I haven’t really thought of. My issue with hate crimes is that 1) how do you judge one group as being more aggrieved than another group, and 2) where is the cut off line for any group. Criminal laws are supposed to be objective, not subjective. It feeds into the notion that we have a two-tiered justice system.

I’m thinking that motive has no bearing. If it did I agree it would be problematic, not sure about unconstitutional. The issue is that we have based personal rights on a person’s affinity group. I can declare I’m gay and automatically have rights that I otherwise would not have. Criminal and civil. That doesn’t seem right to me.

Back to the original post, I have a high amount of doubt whether the graphiti was in fact a hate crime.


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[TFP]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

Major I think you’ll agree that there should be no such thing as a hate crime. Motive is not an element of any other type of crime because it’s unconstitutional to punish thoughts. I’ve always been amazed who such laws withstand scrutiny.


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So normally I go to reply to things I disagree with or find to be patently false on this forum but since I’m never logged in, the idea of actually remembering my user name and password stop me and I move on. However, reading this comment actually drove me to find my username and reset my password. To say “motive is not an element of any other crime” is incredibly incorrect. “Motive” is the difference between murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, and manslaughter. The difference being that murder in the first degree requires “deliberate premeditation” aka motive. The thought in one’s head is the difference.

All that being said I do agree that, in general, the idea of legislating against the thoughts of citizens can be very troublesome. However we have come to the understanding, as a society, that it is required in particular circumstances.

[Major]

Originally Posted by TFP

So normally I go to reply to things I disagree with or find to be patently false on this forum but since I’m never logged in, the idea of actually remembering my user name and password stop me and I move on. However, reading this comment actually drove me to find my username and reset my password. To say “motive is not an element of any other crime” is incredibly incorrect. “Motive” is the difference between murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, and manslaughter. The difference being that murder in the first degree requires “deliberate premeditation” aka motive. The thought in one’s head is the difference.

All that being said I do agree that, in general, the idea of legislating against the thoughts of citizens can be very troublesome. However we have come to the understanding, as a society, that it is required in particular circumstances.

I am not a criminal attorney, but I think we are conflating "motive" with "mens rea." Every crime has some level of mens rea, which is a person's intent on committing a particular crime. I think you are correct in saying that "motive" is the difference between first degree murder and other types of homicides. However, as stated, every crime has some level of intent. Anyway, it's an interesting discussion, probably not suitable for the Forum.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by Major

I am not a criminal attorney, but I think we are conflating "motive" with "mens rea." Every crime has some level of mens rea, which is a person's intent on committing a particular crime. I think you are correct in saying that "motive" is the difference between first degree murder and other types of homicides. However, as stated, every crime has some level of intent. Anyway, it's an interesting discussion, probably not suitable for the Forum.

You’re right Major. Motive vs. mens rea. Two different concepts. I’m glad the misapprehension got someone to re-up on the forum though!


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[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by TFP

So normally I go to reply to things I disagree with or find to be patently false on this forum but since I’m never logged in, the idea of actually remembering my user name and password stop me and I move on. However, reading this comment actually drove me to find my username and reset my password. To say “motive is not an element of any other crime” is incredibly incorrect. “Motive” is the difference between murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, and manslaughter. The difference being that murder in the first degree requires “deliberate premeditation” aka motive. The thought in one’s head is the difference.

All that being said I do agree that, in general, the idea of legislating against the thoughts of citizens can be very troublesome. However we have come to the understanding, as a society, that it is required in particular circumstances.

Welcome back TFP! It is incredibly correct for you to return!


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