HUB status in Moultonborough

longislander · 12-08-2022, 09:26 AM

The $23,000 was requested and granted from capital reserves (CR148), town funds. How much spent? Town activity is subject to Right-To-Know requests, RSA 91-A. Whether done by design or otherwise, the Hub proponents (503- c 3) is probably not under the town umbrella and not subject to RTK. If the town has a copy of the estimate (more than likely) that could be RTK.

Also,

4.78/1000 + .36/1000 + .06/1000 X town assessed property value = added cost to munipal tax rate
4.78 + .36 + .06 = new rate
4.48 + .36 + .06 = 5.2 (all /$1000)

new rate X town valuation = new tax commitment

$5.2/$1000 X $4,892,023,118 = $25,438,520

new tax commitment less old commitment = difference for Hub
$25,438,520 less $23,355,110 = $2,083410

Added $2+ million for the build and annual operating cost cost!!!???

Let's say it is a 10 year bond or something ... can this be anywhere right???
Like, a $20 million 10 year bond at ?% interest???

My logic, if not my math, is probably faulty.

Oh well ... someone will probably ask for a cost number at the Dec15th meeting.

https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/...-tax-rates.pdf

winni83 · 12-08-2022, 09:55 AM

It seems to be that there are two separate groups involved in promoting the Community Center. The first is Friends Of The Moultonborough Community Center; this is a nonprofit corporation formed in NH.
See
https://quickstart.sos.nh.gov/online...inessID=714337

The second is The HUB Moultonborough Community, Activity and Aquatic Center. The HUB recently changed the pretentious “Centre” to “Center”. As best I can tell, the HUB is not registered with the NH Secretary of State. It appears from the HUB webpage that donations go to the Friends of the Moultonborough Community Center. See

https://thehubmoultonborough.com/

The HUB webpage describes the HUB as “The HUB Community Center Working Group is comprised of six private citizens brought together by Mark Borrin and Kim Johnson to establish a focus on a needs-based approach to design, construct and equip a town owned Community center in Moultonborough.” The HUB webpage also states that “The group was formed privately as an off-shoot of the 2021 town meeting Article #16 – an article to create plans and cost estimation for building a Community Center in Moultonborough. The group has worked privately and has been presenting its findings to the Moultonborough Select Board periodically.”
So what entity got the approximately $23,000 to fund the estimate? Did the Town pay for it directly or did the money go to The Friends Of The Moultonborough Community Center or the HUB? Seems to me it should be easy enough to track the expenditures from whatever account it was disbursed.

longislander · 12-08-2022, 10:45 AM

I believe you are correct ... two separate groups. The Friends etc. is an LLC created to get donations under 501(c)(3) and get the donations.

"a 501(c) organization may not allow its donors to write off donations while a 501(c)(3) organization lets its donors take tax deductions on their contributions."

The Hub is promoted " ... to establish a focus on a needs-based approach to design, construct and equip a town owned Community center in Moultonborough."

Principals of both organizations are the same (not all of them, though).

It is accepted that the Thursday, May 11, 2023 Town meeting (second session) scheduled for 6:00 PM will have a warrant article for the Hub. It is no longer on Saturdays.The select board has the legal right for this. The town legislative body votes on which month; March or April or May. Will this be a petiitioned article or an article submitted by the select board without a petition for the Hub (judging by comments made at BoS meetings). Some may feel, if the select board puts it in, it will be more convincing, rather than a petition.

It is more than likely The Hub group principals, since the $23,000 is not a donation and the town hopefully didn't get involved with tax deduction of public money. Another interesting angle pointed out in the past might be for those who donated in 2022 and will claim 2022 tax deductions. The 501(C)(3) has stated in the past it would return the donations if the build fell through. That wouldn't happen till 2023. Means what ... 2022 tax return amendment or risk an IRS audit?

See section C of these BoS minutes:
https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit..._8.18.2022.pdf

winni83 · 12-08-2022, 10:49 AM

From the minutes of the 8-18-22 BOS meeting (emphasis added):

"C. Moultonborough Community Centre (“The Hub”) construction cost estimator proposals: Chairman Quinlan reviewed the agenda report to approve proposals from vendors, Castagna and CONESTCO for the purpose of completing a con-struction cost estimator to build a community center, today known as “The Hub.” Further, that vendors use the Moultonborough Community Center sche-matic design created by Stewart Associates Architects. Ms. Kim Johnson, 201
Page 4 of 6
Moultonborough Neck Road reported that cost quotes include finalizing costs for early 2023 so that there are more solid numbers for Town meeting. Cur-rently, there is $27,411 in the fund and they have fund raised approximately $35,000. Chairman Quinlan said that they need the plans from February 2022, project #2018.131. Ms. Diane McArthur, 57 Long Point Road asked questions on cost, maintenance, staffing, energy requirements to name a few and came from a place where they had an aquatic center. She asked about phasing, and Ms. Johnson said that phasing resets the construction project; during various community meetings, it was the residents who expressed their desire for a pool. Discussion ensued.
Motion: Selectman Beadle To approve both proposals from vendors, Castagna and CONESTCO for the purpose of completing a construction cost estimator to build a town community center, today known as the Hub. Further, proposal from Castagna Consulting group for $12,250 and with a not to exceed proposal from CONESTCO for $10,800. Both expenditures are to be distributed from the Community/Senior Center Capital Reserve Fund as presented and to authorize the Town Administrator to sign and that all communications go through the Town Administrator. Chair Quinlan added for project #2018-131 from Stewart Architects and that they use the February 2022 drawings. Seconded: Vice Chairman Colby Vote: 4 – 1 Selectman Quinlan opposed.
Motion passed."

So if all communications on the estimate are to go through the Administrator, why are they not subject to a Right to Know Request?

longislander · 12-08-2022, 11:13 AM

Quote:

So if all communications on the estimate are to go through the Administrator, why are they not subject to a Right to Know Request?

Good point!
They probably are!
Leads right back to a BoS warrant article and not a petition.

Should also note from the minutes:

Vote: 4 – 1 Selectman Quinlan opposed.
Motion passed.

Also,
I believe it has been said somewhere that only one contractor provided info.
Could it be CONESTCO?

http://conestco.com/

http://conestco.com/id5.html

longislander · 12-08-2022, 01:33 PM

Quote:

From the minutes of the 8-18-22 BOS meeting (emphasis added):

From the agenda for the 8-18-22 meeting:

See pages 40, 41 and 42

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...nda_packet.pdf

12-08-2022, 09:26 AM	#1
longislander Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 546 Thanks: 49 Thanked 100 Times in 75 Posts	The $23,000 was requested and granted from capital reserves (CR148), town funds. How much spent? Town activity is subject to Right-To-Know requests, RSA 91-A. Whether done by design or otherwise, the Hub proponents (503- c 3) is probably not under the town umbrella and not subject to RTK. If the town has a copy of the estimate (more than likely) that could be RTK. Also, 4.78/1000 + .36/1000 + .06/1000 X town assessed property value = added cost to munipal tax rate 4.78 + .36 + .06 = new rate 4.48 + .36 + .06 = 5.2 (all /$1000) new rate X town valuation = new tax commitment $5.2/$1000 X $4,892,023,118 = $25,438,520 new tax commitment less old commitment = difference for Hub $25,438,520 less $23,355,110 = $2,083410 Added $2+ million for the build and annual operating cost cost!!!??? Let's say it is a 10 year bond or something ... can this be anywhere right??? Like, a $20 million 10 year bond at ?% interest??? My logic, if not my math, is probably faulty. Oh well ... someone will probably ask for a cost number at the Dec15th meeting. https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/...-tax-rates.pdf

12-08-2022, 09:55 AM	#2
winni83 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 431 Thanks: 17 Thanked 213 Times in 135 Posts	It seems to be that there are two separate groups involved in promoting the Community Center. The first is Friends Of The Moultonborough Community Center; this is a nonprofit corporation formed in NH. See https://quickstart.sos.nh.gov/online...inessID=714337 The second is The HUB Moultonborough Community, Activity and Aquatic Center. The HUB recently changed the pretentious “Centre” to “Center”. As best I can tell, the HUB is not registered with the NH Secretary of State. It appears from the HUB webpage that donations go to the Friends of the Moultonborough Community Center. See https://thehubmoultonborough.com/ The HUB webpage describes the HUB as “The HUB Community Center Working Group is comprised of six private citizens brought together by Mark Borrin and Kim Johnson to establish a focus on a needs-based approach to design, construct and equip a town owned Community center in Moultonborough.” The HUB webpage also states that “The group was formed privately as an off-shoot of the 2021 town meeting Article #16 – an article to create plans and cost estimation for building a Community Center in Moultonborough. The group has worked privately and has been presenting its findings to the Moultonborough Select Board periodically.” So what entity got the approximately $23,000 to fund the estimate? Did the Town pay for it directly or did the money go to The Friends Of The Moultonborough Community Center or the HUB? Seems to me it should be easy enough to track the expenditures from whatever account it was disbursed.

12-08-2022, 10:45 AM	#3
longislander Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 546 Thanks: 49 Thanked 100 Times in 75 Posts	I believe you are correct ... two separate groups. The Friends etc. is an LLC created to get donations under 501(c)(3) and get the donations. "a 501(c) organization may not allow its donors to write off donations while a 501(c)(3) organization lets its donors take tax deductions on their contributions." The Hub is promoted " ... to establish a focus on a needs-based approach to design, construct and equip a town owned Community center in Moultonborough." Principals of both organizations are the same (not all of them, though). It is accepted that the Thursday, May 11, 2023 Town meeting (second session) scheduled for 6:00 PM will have a warrant article for the Hub. It is no longer on Saturdays.The select board has the legal right for this. The town legislative body votes on which month; March or April or May. Will this be a petiitioned article or an article submitted by the select board without a petition for the Hub (judging by comments made at BoS meetings). Some may feel, if the select board puts it in, it will be more convincing, rather than a petition. It is more than likely The Hub group principals, since the $23,000 is not a donation and the town hopefully didn't get involved with tax deduction of public money. Another interesting angle pointed out in the past might be for those who donated in 2022 and will claim 2022 tax deductions. The 501(C)(3) has stated in the past it would return the donations if the build fell through. That wouldn't happen till 2023. Means what ... 2022 tax return amendment or risk an IRS audit? See section C of these BoS minutes: https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit..._8.18.2022.pdf

12-08-2022, 10:49 AM	#4
winni83 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Moultonborough, NH Posts: 431 Thanks: 17 Thanked 213 Times in 135 Posts	From the minutes of the 8-18-22 BOS meeting (emphasis added): "C. Moultonborough Community Centre (“The Hub”) construction cost estimator proposals: Chairman Quinlan reviewed the agenda report to approve proposals from vendors, Castagna and CONESTCO for the purpose of completing a con-struction cost estimator to build a community center, today known as “The Hub.” Further, that vendors use the Moultonborough Community Center sche-matic design created by Stewart Associates Architects. Ms. Kim Johnson, 201 Page 4 of 6 Moultonborough Neck Road reported that cost quotes include finalizing costs for early 2023 so that there are more solid numbers for Town meeting. Cur-rently, there is $27,411 in the fund and they have fund raised approximately $35,000. Chairman Quinlan said that they need the plans from February 2022, project #2018.131. Ms. Diane McArthur, 57 Long Point Road asked questions on cost, maintenance, staffing, energy requirements to name a few and came from a place where they had an aquatic center. She asked about phasing, and Ms. Johnson said that phasing resets the construction project; during various community meetings, it was the residents who expressed their desire for a pool. Discussion ensued. Motion: Selectman Beadle To approve both proposals from vendors, Castagna and CONESTCO for the purpose of completing a construction cost estimator to build a town community center, today known as the Hub. Further, proposal from Castagna Consulting group for $12,250 and with a not to exceed proposal from CONESTCO for $10,800. Both expenditures are to be distributed from the Community/Senior Center Capital Reserve Fund as presented and to authorize the Town Administrator to sign and that all communications go through the Town Administrator. Chair Quinlan added for project #2018-131 from Stewart Architects and that they use the February 2022 drawings. Seconded: Vice Chairman Colby Vote: 4 – 1 Selectman Quinlan opposed. Motion passed." So if all communications on the estimate are to go through the Administrator, why are they not subject to a Right to Know Request?