Treat New Dock?

[Dad207]

Just replaced my dock -- its pretty big, 20 x 15 with a U -shaped boat slip and an access pier. Pressure treated pine , of course, but wondering if I should use a commercial sealant. There is alot of discussion on line about the advantages-- protection from sunlight and water, snow absorption, but I have also heard that once treated you've got an ongoing maintenance issue, need to power wash and re-treat every 3-4 years. That may not be the worst case, but interested in a variety of views.


--Treat or no?
--Product experience
--Maintenance post treatment
--Environmental-- what can I use, and to what degree must I prevent dripping into the Lake?


I do know that I need to let it dry out-- 3-6 months.
Input very much appreciated.

[John Mercier]

You would need to seal it to protect it from water absorption.
The capillary action of wet/dry will cause it to ''crack'' more and allow for the mold to accelerate the decaying process.

A UV inhibitor... of various degrees... as part of the stain (color) determines how long that may last; with oil taking more even wear than acrylic.

Rather than just letting it dry for best estimate... use a moisture meter.

You can tell if the sealer has failed using a ''beading'' test.
You can only tell if the UV inhibitor is failing from the graying of the wood.

Cleaning gets done before any application of stain as a means not to trap mold beneath the stain. Most important for transparent and semi-transparent stains as that will create a darkening.

[FlyingScot]

It's poison! You don't want it anywhere near the lake. I'm pretty sure the back of the can will say to keep it away from surface water

[John Mercier]

Acrylic is actually mostly water.
Oil creates a ''slick'' but is no more damaging than gasoline powered boats in the waterway.

The real problem is proper application.
It is the stripping of that dock that will create the serious problem.
Strippers and brighteners are serious business.

[ApS]

Our PT Southern Pine dock is about 48 years old, with no planks replaced. (Only two flipped in its history). Construction on a neighbor's dock tells me it's the same contractor, and it looks somewhat better. How frequently it gets treated is unknown.

I never saw my dock when it was new--it's been gray "forever". I'd guess it was treated four times in its long history. (Three times by me.) 'Always used Thompson's Sealer and used either a brush or a roller: The roller threw a lot of sealer, but the majority of drops landed against the adjacent boards' wide edges. (The brush was much harder to control the excess sealer).

There are only three issues that need attention:

1) Splinters

2) Vegetative growth on the dozen planks nearest shore

3) Resetting the nails

✔ Checked annually, and a few splinters are glued back in place using epoxy--temporarily held in place with doorstop-shaped wooden wedges. Sometimes removal or sanding will fix the occasional splinter. Always barefoot, i don’t have splinters as an issue, but some folks had that justified concern for their grandchildren.

✔ Vegetation is a recent condition, caused by too many oversized boat wakes crashing ashore. (Occasionally, wakes will soak a sun bather at the end of the dock.). So far, wood rot is not a problem. It's slippery there but fortunately, they're not in a well-traveled area. I need to re-treat those boards in spring, when it's relatively clear of vegetation and the weather is warm and dry. Maybe a day in late spring, when the sun heats the dock so it's too hot to walk on!

✔ Nails need hammering back in place: lag bolts need tightening.

After one episode of finding the dock submerged after "Ice-Out", I've chained the outermost
piling sets to the dock. Yes, a chain will occasionally break during Ice-Out, but the dock is saved from becoming a floating dock!

Repairing with a farm jack:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=1694

[SAB1]

That is impressive Aps. At 48 years it doesn’t owe you much. That’s when PT was made to last but 48 is even well past that. We had a section of our dock replaced 10 years ago. I replaced 7 PT 2x6’s used as decking last month. Three had rotted thru. I’ve got another 8 or so to go before next season.

[John Mercier]

48 years ago...
PT included arsenic.

We no longer have that option, and haven't for some time.

[Winni P]

I have heard it is illegal to stain or paint a dock that is over the water in NH. Anyone know for sure?

[John Mercier]

It isn't.
They do it all the time.

[The Real BigGuy]

Interesting to note that some of the longest lived buildings in the country have exteriors that have never been painted. I had a craftsman tell me that he feels the problem with building anything now days is the wood contains moisture and when it gets painted the outside is sealed so the wood can’t “breath”. When put together it makes some sense. Bottom line, I pressure wash my dock about every 8 - 10 years or so but, I don’t treat it.


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[John Mercier]

Vertical lasts different than horizontal...
And uncovered horizontal was made from woods that were naturally resistant to rot and splinter... generally either through natural inhibitors or tight grains.

You can still do that if you use these types of wood.
Other items, such as white pine from NH was older growth - grew more slowly - and had tighter grain. They would be coated man times with a polywhey produce that came from the milking industry as a waste product to making cheese or as spoiled milk that could not be sold.
This is the basis for Vermont Natural Coatings' products.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

48 years ago...

PT included arsenic.

We no longer have that option, and haven't for some time.

I wonder how many trees I've spared by not going "green"?

Arsenic is found naturally: Twenty percent of New Hampshire's wells exceed by half-again a dangerous level of Arsenic.

[John Mercier]

It had nothing to do with going green.

PT is not manufactured in NH... nor is Southern Yellow Pine grown here.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by ApS

I wonder how many trees I've spared by not going "green"?

Arsenic is found naturally: Twenty percent of New Hampshire's wells exceed by half-again a dangerous level of Arsenic.

Which is why those wells don’t produce drinking water safe for human consumption without a treatment system installed.

Just because something occurs naturally doesn’t mean it’s safe to add more to the environment.


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[swnoel]

Originally Posted by Dad207

Just replaced my dock -- its pretty big, 20 x 15 with a U -shaped boat slip and an access pier. Pressure treated pine , of course, but wondering if I should use a commercial sealant. There is alot of discussion on line about the advantages-- protection from sunlight and water, snow absorption, but I have also heard that once treated you've got an ongoing maintenance issue, need to power wash and re-treat every 3-4 years. That may not be the worst case, but interested in a variety of views.


--Treat or no?
--Product experience
--Maintenance post treatment
--Environmental-- what can I use, and to what degree must I prevent dripping into the Lake?


I do know that I need to let it dry out-- 3-6 months.
Input very much appreciated.

I'd recommend you treat it either with a transparent or semi solid quality stain such as Sikkens. I prefer semi solid. Hopefully it was put together with screws and not nails. Nails have a tendency to pull out causing the boards to curl.

[John Mercier]

You will not find Sikkens in the US anymore.
The North American rights were purchased by PPG several years ago, and now is sold under the name Proluxe.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You will not find Sikkens in the US anymore.
The North American rights were purchased by PPG several years ago, and now is sold under the name Proluxe.

Isn’t the formulation the exact same just relabeled by PPG??

[ApS]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It had nothing to do with going green.

It was the EPA that phased out CCA (chromated copper arsenate), beginning in 2004.

Except for turning a river orange with arsenic, the EPA represents our tax dollars at the front of "green".

...nor is Southern Yellow Pine grown here.

Correct.

I pass-by miles and miles of Yellow Pine "forests" twice a year. It's a huge "crop".

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Which is why those wells don’t produce drinking water safe for human consumption without a treatment system installed. Just because something occurs naturally doesn’t mean it’s safe to add more to the environment.

Wouldn't it make sense for the driller of those wells to continue drilling deeper when arsenic is found in the water produced?

As to arsenic in the lake, if you capped an arsenic-producing well, wouldn't that groundwater eventually find its way into the lake?

Lake Winnipesaukee is supplied by natural springs, which contain measurable units of arsenic; fortunately, the Winnipesaukee Basin is also flushed by rainwater, which regularly dilutes the arsenic--as well as other poisonous elements.

I'd be curious how Lake Winnipesaukee's water compares with Wolfeboro's town water in undesirable elements. Having seen Wolfeboro's analyses, I think I know the answer!

[John Mercier]

If you knew about decking - and you don't - the green choice would be either the recycle products, the PVC products, or Forest Certified exotics.

https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/270_0.pdf

We began using pressure treated wood because it was a cheap option, not a green option.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Isn’t the formulation the exact same just relabeled by PPG??

Depends. Sikkens produced many formulations. They sold to PPG because of the VOC compliance demands of certain State meant that some of the line could not be sold in all 50 States. So it depends on what you are specifically looking for. The SRD that we sell is complaint in NH... but I can't get some of the others that I can in Vermont.

The only stains sold locally, that I know of, that changed dramatically were Cabot ATO (we can only sell the original in NH as quarts due to the VOC; Vermont can get it in gallons and five gallons) and Cabot Oil Deck stains (they now have blue lids with a modified oil).

Penofin decided to leave the market in NH, I can still get it in Vermont. But for me, it isn't worth the trip.
I went to Native Exotic decking when we had it. It had stain pressure treated right into the deck board.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

If you knew about decking - and you don't - the green choice would be either the recycle products, the PVC products, or Forest Certified exotics.
We began using pressure treated wood because it was a cheap option, not a green option.

Correct: With the benefits of a CCA dock, there's no need to. .

The EPA may have erred.

A Florida neighbor has a 125-foot dock to keep his 50-foot Kevlar powerboat. (With four hard points molded in for delivery by helicopter). The decking is a brick-colored flow-through product he'd bought through eBay. It may appear "green", but fossil fuels were entirely employed in its manufacture.

The decking and boat survived Hurricane Irma, but the aluminum/stainless lift itself broke.

[John Mercier]

They didn't err.
The industry had already left the CCA because arsenic is to prevent termites.
Not really a big problem in NH.

The wood deck industry is in a battle with the composite/PVC industry for dominance... hence why all the new pre-stained wood decking that is low maintenance.
Mine is Bronze Native Exotic.

[LIforrelaxin]

If you have built a deck with Pressure treated wood, I suggest just leaving it alone.... People talk about sealing pressure treated wood all the time.... Why? I certainly don't understand the logic, if your going to treat the wood on a regular basis just by regular wood and save a few bucks...

My dock is pressure treated... yep from time to time, I have to replace a floor board or two.... But that is just normal.... every few years I take a pressure washer to it, to clean it up.... but that is about it....

I do the same thing with my pressure treated Decks as well... they are going on 30 years......

[John Mercier]

Because they will gray and splinter.
Not to mention things are getting really hard to come by... so replacement may not happen as desired.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Because they will gray and splinter.
Not to mention things are getting really hard to come by... so replacement may not happen as desired.

We can agree to disagree on the splinter aspect... And yes the wood will grey... but if you pressure wash the grey goes away....

As for replacement material, I learned long ago that keep some level of inventory is worth while... I always have extra floor boards, extra siding, trim boards etc. on hand at the camp... do when I do decided to make repairs I am not having to go gather up items... Although the last couple of years have caused some problems, because I haven't restocked like I would like too on some items.....

[John Mercier]

It isn't an agree/disagree issue.
It is a fact of basic science.
It is the underlying reason that composite decking was designed.

Also the pressure wash strips the top cellulose layer away to remove the gray. Forces the water under pressure back into the wood grain, and repeats the process.

PT wood is wet. As it dries, it shrinks. When wet again, it expands. The expansion and contraction along with the frost/thaw cycle of New England breaks it down.

Cedar was used because it is dry to start with... and has a tighter grain.
It resists the wick effect, thus making it more rot resistant - less cracks, checks, twisting, cupping, and splinters as a result. But it will still gray... and the gray, when power washed away, is the mechanical stripping of the top layer of cellulose.

The first generation of composites was not ''capped''; so they would ''gray'' unless stained with specific acrylic latex for a color. There was no savings in the maintenance, the extra price was a matter of not have that wick effect... and maybe a small handful of people that purchased because it was recycled plastic bags mixed with sawdust.

So to ''fix'' the PT, products like the Bronze Native Exotic that I use was invented. But it is still old tech, where the pressure treating process adds the stain color resulting in the color going all the way through the board. The wick effect is reduced, but not eliminated, and the gray takes many years before it becomes noticeable.

They say the new Yellawood stain infused is even better.