Farm Island decision upheld

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Well based on what I see here it appears to be a common story played out time and time again.

Some area of desirable has a pre-established usage partially residential and partially other.

The “other” usage is in decline, but the owners have hopes and plans for revitalization and maybe some growth. This plan may or may not be known or announced/communicated to anyone else as business matters are usually close-hold until the last possible moment, thats just a common business practice.

The residential usage portion of the land in question has been held for a very long time and has fallen into disrepair and the owners finally put it up for sale.

Potential buyers of the residential parcel see opportunity and future value in the parcel and buy with a hope/expectation that the other parcel will stay as is or will eventually fade away.

When buyers of the residential parcel realize that revitalization and some growth are planned for the other parcel, they develop concerns about the impact to their planned usage of the residential parcel and their hopes/plans of increased future value of the property and thus setting up a battle between the 2 parties.

This exact situation is a constant happening across the country where people buy homes next to failing gas station/garages, small businesses, airports. They expect the business will remain as is or decline and the site will revert back to an uninhabited undeveloped parcel or will become something that they see as acceptable. But when the preexisting usage is revitalized and potentially expanded, the new home owners vision is shattered and the lawyers take over. It then becomes a battle of will and money and time. Who can outlast who. The threshold of reasonable gets twisted past the point of recognition and the community is divided in the protracted debate about what is right or wrong. There will be a winner, but the biggest winner will be the lawyers.

I would like to say that potential buyers of the residential property in these situations should not be making such purchases, but in truth if they are willing to fight to their last breath, spend crazy amounts money on lawyers, fight as long as it takes, and do virtually anything necessary, they may very well be successful and it can pay off with huge rewards. Just look at the insane situation with the shut down of the Ames Farm boat ramp. That was a preexisting usage for decades, and it was a benefit to countless untold people. One of the most beautiful and easy to use spots for day boaters to launch a boat, now lost because of one new abutting homeowner that wanted to change what was. So it can be done. Not a big fan of this process or the outcome(s), but it is how the system works. Money, time and stamina very often win out over other competing measures/interests/desires.

It will be interesting to see how this one ends.

i thank you so much for the careful thought. one issue of clarification though with "pre-established usage partially residential and partially other". this is only a grandfathered use. grandfather uses remains, provided however, they are on the same lot and no expansion. in this case camp belknap is trying to develop on a separate low density residential lot and take it out of conservation land use. concom has allowed this and shame on them. for the record they a removing a firing range next to the majority of their activities and in a grandfathered lot/status. they themselves identify it a nuisance. then in there words, they are moving it to the periphery of their land and in my words to rid themselves of the nuisance and put it on the burden of others. with regards to expansion they are doubling the size of the firing range. on two counts, among many others, they are in direct violation of the laws we live by. not to mention the defy a superior court judges specific orders. they filed a motion for clarification and the judge reaffirms her orders and again they try to violate it.


and PLEASE remember this: now i beg you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another selfish quest? or as we call it sethfish quest

[Randy Owen]

This is where seth kassels cut a sewage lagoon and sent thousands and thousands of gallons of human waste. To them and then to lake winnepasaukee! We have the photography. This was at the direction of seth kassles

[Randy Owen]

This is where seth kassels cut a sewage lagoon and sent thousands and thousands of gallons of human waste. To them and then to lake winnepasaukee! We have the photography. This was at the direction of seth kassles

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

This is where seth kassels cut a sewage lagoon and sent thousands and thousands of gallons of human waste. To them and then to lake winnepasaukee! We have the photography. This was at the direction of seth kassles

Completely inaccurate. Those septic lagoons did not spew thousand of gallons of waste into the lake. They also were monitored by the state each year. Total BS

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

This is where seth kassels cut a sewage lagoon and sent thousands and thousands of gallons of human waste. To them and then to lake winnepasaukee! We have the photography. This was at the direction of seth kassles

Yet another matter that should not be handled by private parties or lawyers.

If what you claim is true, call in the state and your politicians, and if needed the media.

No one should be expending one penny on private lawyers to deal with this.

Raw sewage in public water would fall under a public safety umbrella, let the responsible parties deal with it and divest yourself from the drama.

You are not making this better by the actions you are communicating here.

If there are legitimate violations these are the governments concerns and responsibility to address.

Not sure what I am missing,,,

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Yet another matter that should not be handled by private parties or lawyers.

If what you claim is true, call in the state and your politicians, and if needed the media.

No one should be expending one penny on private lawyers to deal with this.

Raw sewage in public water would fall under a public safety umbrella, let the responsible parties deal with it and divest yourself from the drama.

You are not making this better by the actions you are communicating here.

If there are legitimate violations these are the governments concerns and responsibility to address.

Not sure what I am missing,,,

there is specific official nh action and investigation in process

thank you

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

there is specific official nh action and investigation in process

thank you

the photo with black pipes is where they would just drain the lagoon whenever it filled up. (the winnie shores letter addresses this well) the photos with the white pipes and precast chamber shows the area where under the direction of seth kassels the excavator operator just breached the lagoon. the photo with the ice show the abrupt level change where the sewage levels were at the day before. these pond are quite large. these was THOUSANDS OF GALLONS as the drop was several feet and a horrific dump into the lake. this is the season with specific correlation to kids or camper illness and seth's wife refuses to answer questions about and offer records of proof otherwise

now i know some are frustrated with my passion and this lengthy thread. but apart and aside the reader needs to know. we swim here. hell the parents need to know. if ever he would to deny this as intentional and lie once again and call it a mistake (which it wasn't) seth kassels marched those kids right into that water. these effluents last of years not weeks. this is shameful of him. those poor innocent kids!!!! now his wife refuses medical records or perhaps seth won't let her

thank you all for your concern and attention

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

the photo with black pipes is where they would just drain the lagoon whenever it filled up. (the winnie shores letter addresses this well) the photos with the white pipes and precast chamber shows the area where under the direction of seth kassels the excavator operator just breached the lagoon. the photo with the ice show the abrupt level change where the sewage levels were at the day before. these pond are quite large. these was THOUSANDS OF GALLONS as the drop was several feet and a horrific dump into the lake. this is the season with specific correlation to kids or camper illness and seth's wife refuses to answer questions about and offer records of proof otherwise

now i know some are frustrated with my passion and this lengthy thread. but apart and aside the reader needs to know. we swim here. hell the parents need to know. if ever he would to deny this as intentional and lie once again and call it a mistake (which it wasn't) seth kassels marched those kids right into that water. these effluents last of years not weeks. this is shameful of him. those poor innocent kids!!!! now his wife refuses medical records or perhaps seth won't let her

thank you all for your concern and attention

If this is truly the case why didn't DES handle this? They don't take these kind of matters lightly. A simple complaint filed with DES should have brought the world down on them.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

If this is truly the case why didn't DES handle this? They don't take these kind of matters lightly. A simple complaint filed with DES should have brought the world down on them.

the des is aware. surprising the des recorded the event and did little. we are going to ask for these records.

conjunctivitis and stomach viruses were rampant. the medical records are held at the camp. former campers know all about it. ask them! the camp refuses to address this and the order of pot we frequently smell

[Sue Doe-Nym]

That is shocking, if true, that the DES has been made aware of lake pollution by the camp, and has done nothing....in fact, it’s almost unbelievable!

[Don McWhirter]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

That is shocking, if true, that the DES has been made aware of lake pollution by the camp, and has done nothing....in fact, it’s almost unbelievable!

This will be short but sweet and it has a happy ending. In the Spring of 2017 I was tipped off by a staff member at Camp Belknap . I was told the director of the camp had the sewage lagoon emptied into the surrounding land. I found this to be true and called the Sub Surface Division of the DES. They were to send an inspector out. When I didn’t hear from them I called again. I was informed they called the camp and were told there was maintenance being done on the pipes. Months later I reported the incident to the Lake Winnipesaukee Association. They put the lagoons on a watch list. As I said happy ending, the camp installed two new septic systems thanks to the Lake Winni Assoc. As for the stomach viruses and conjunctivitis outbreak, they were all reported to me and others by camp employees. It really is about the money not the kids at Belknap.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Don McWhirter

This will be short but sweet and it has a happy ending. In the Spring of 2017 I was tipped off by a staff member at Camp Belknap . I was told the director of the camp had the sewage lagoon emptied into the surrounding land. I found this to be true and called the Sub Surface Division of the DES. They were to send an inspector out. When I didn’t hear from them I called again. I was informed they called the camp and were told there was maintenance being done on the pipes. Months later I reported the incident to the Lake Winnipesaukee Association. They put the lagoons on a watch list. As I said happy ending, the camp installed two new septic systems thanks to the Lake Winni Assoc. As for the stomach viruses and conjunctivitis outbreak, they were all reported to me and others by camp employees. It really is about the money not the kids at Belknap.

Hmm.... so first of all what would entice a "staff member" to casually drop this information on you? This makes zero sense, or were you just fishing for dirt on the camp? Now this allegedly occurred in the spring time as per your own admission, the camp states they were doing maintenance. Stands to reason this was being done well before any kids arrived and how do you know for certain that what was drained out of those pipes was even the grey water that the pools actually contain? BTW grey water is NOT raw sewage. Do you think that MAYBE it is possible and more or less likely that the pipes indeed did need maintenance or just a check prior to operation? Moreover what was allegedly drained out of them was not grey water but rather regular potable water which was put into them to say I don't know pressure test them? Since you didn't see first hand what happened your observation and conclusion is likely incorrect thus the reason why there was no action by DES who far as everyone else on the planet knows takes this stuff very seriously. IF an investigation was warranted I'm sure they would have conducted one and shut that place down if there was indeed a problem. Outrage due to ignorance does not, on your part or Mr. Owen's, construe illegal activity by the camp, town, DES or state.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Hmm.... so first of all what would entice a "staff member" to casually drop this information on you? This makes zero sense, or were you just fishing for dirt on the camp? Now this allegedly occurred in the spring time as per your own admission, the camp states they were doing maintenance. Stands to reason this was being done well before any kids arrived and how do you know for certain that what was drained out of those pipes was even the grey water that the pools actually contain? BTW grey water is NOT raw sewage. Do you think that MAYBE it is possible and more or less likely that the pipes indeed did need maintenance or just a check prior to operation? Moreover what was allegedly drained out of them was not grey water but rather regular potable water which was put into them to say I don't know pressure test them? Since you didn't see first hand what happened your observation and conclusion is likely incorrect thus the reason why there was no action by DES who far as everyone else on the planet knows takes this stuff very seriously. IF an investigation was warranted I'm sure they would have conducted one and shut that place down if there was indeed a problem. Outrage due to ignorance does not, on your part or Mr. Owen's, construe illegal activity by the camp, town, DES or state.

at a time camp belknap actions and policies were well respected. i think the des just accepted their verbal report. at a time staff and former staff at camp belknaqp were pretty happy. this is no longer true.

the forensics though are pretty telling. the ice line is in feet. i welcome supporting argument that might mitigate this disaster but i just don't see it. please explain how you think this happened. perhaps if the camp can provide manifests of thousands of gallons being pumped and transported i'll buy it, but for now i'm going with gravity and to it's lowest point lake winnipesaukee.

the former kids all will tell you about the pink eye and stomach viruses resulting. truth is they are pushing the kids to as they call it "west camp" because they polluted east camp.

while the spill itself is catastrophic this also begs the question why seth kassels did not report it and further why did he march the kids into that water just a few weeks later or YOU for that matter. i assume you are a neighbor

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

at a time camp belknap actions and policies were well respected. i think the des just accepted their verbal report. at a time staff and former staff at camp belknaqp were pretty happy. this is no longer true.

the forensics though are pretty telling. the ice line is in feet. i welcome supporting argument that might mitigate this disaster but i just don't see it. please explain how you think this happened. perhaps if the camp can provide manifests of thousands of gallons being pumped and transported i'll buy it, but for now i'm going with gravity and to it's lowest point lake winnipesaukee.

the former kids all will tell you about the pink eye and stomach viruses resulting. truth is they are pushing the kids to as they call it "west camp" because they polluted east camp.

while the spill itself is catastrophic this also begs the question why seth kassels did not report it and further why did he march the kids into that water just a few weeks later or YOU for that matter. i assume you are a neighbor

please also explain this

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

at a time camp belknap actions and policies were well respected. i think the des just accepted their verbal report. at a time staff and former staff at camp belknaqp were pretty happy. this is no longer true.

the forensics though are pretty telling. the ice line is in feet. i welcome supporting argument that might mitigate this disaster but i just don't see it. please explain how you think this happened. perhaps if the camp can provide manifests of thousands of gallons being pumped and transported i'll buy it, but for now i'm going with gravity and to it's lowest point lake winnipesaukee.

the former kids all will tell you about the pink eye and stomach viruses resulting. truth is they are pushing the kids to as they call it "west camp" because they polluted east camp.

while the spill itself is catastrophic this also begs the question why seth kassels did not report it and further why did he march the kids into that water just a few weeks later or YOU for that matter. i assume you are a neighbor

You've lost all credibility with me Mr. Owens.

I sincerely hope the camp continues to operate and annoys the heck out of you for many years to come.

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by codeman671

If this is truly the case why didn't DES handle this? They don't take these kind of matters lightly. A simple complaint filed with DES should have brought the world down on them.

i am equally surprised and disappointed with the des

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

i thank you so much for the careful thought. one issue of clarification though with "pre-established usage partially residential and partially other". this is only a grandfathered use. grandfather uses remains, provided however, they are on the same lot and no expansion. in this case camp belknap is trying to develop on a separate low density residential lot and take it out of conservation land use. concom has allowed this and shame on them. for the record they a removing a firing range next to the majority of their activities and in a grandfathered lot/status. they themselves identify it a nuisance. then in there words, they are moving it to the periphery of their land and in my words to rid themselves of the nuisance and put it on the burden of others. with regards to expansion they are doubling the size of the firing range. on two counts, among many others, they are in direct violation of the laws we live by. not to mention the defy a superior court judges specific orders. they filed a motion for clarification and the judge reaffirms her orders and again they try to violate it.


and PLEASE remember this: now i beg you to understand my less then perfect domainer. while doing so please ask yourself the following: when was the last time you let one hundred thousand dollars of your children's money slip through you hands on another selfish quest? or as we call it sethfish quest

Again too many issues are being addressed in one thread.

If the alleged violations of zoning are an attempt to develop "for sale residential housing" that is in a conservation area, and that is not housing for use by the camp, this is its own matter and one the state of NH should be taking up. Not sure how that ever becomes a private matter or how this could possibly result in you spending any of your kids money on legal action. Stop wasting your money on this and call state IG or your reps.

Now if you are talking about the camp developing housing for use by the campers or staff, is a very different matter, and one would hope not a problem for anyone. How is this any different than putting up fire watch towers, or warming huts, or housing for rangers in conservation land in state and national parks. Its not something most people would object to.

As for the rifle range, I suspect they used poor judgment in selecting those words. That may also have been written before the plan to change from .22 rifles to air rifles. That being said please see my previous post about air rifles, I think the proposed air rifle range is a non-issue. But if after observing an air rifle being fired in a location with any reasonable background noise,you then still have concerns and objections that 600 feet is not enough buffer for you, it would seem to be an easy to resolve matter with the camp to discuss options to add buffer or add landscaping elements to reduce the noise transmission. But hanging your hat on that concern and expending even one dollar on lawyers over this just appear futile and petty. Life is too short for this to be a major issue for anyone, it just doesnt make any sense.

Again, would your rather they simply said forget it and just continued using the .22 rifles at the current range, that would be the real tragedy, and I can 100% assure you, you will notice the .22 rifles far more even in that old location, than you will notice the air guns at 600 feet.

Be careful what you seek, you might just get it.

[Descant]

I think the two prime posters are just making stuff up (Randy Owen and XCR-700.) Randy wants to live on Farm Island in the summer. Not even close to the existing or proposed rifle range. He's worried about noise from 300 campers who will not be on Farm Island in any large numbers. They won't be
.c.c.playing ball or other large noisy group games etc.
XCR-700 is speculating about where things are or what might be OK or not OK,
with no apparent knowledge of what is already going on
Randy started a second thread to discuss the mainland squabbles, but also , posted the same opening remarks on the Farm Island thread, totally unrelated,

tGive it a rest, guys, or go to PM's or phones where you can figure ou
what/where you are

[Randy Owen]

Originally Posted by Descant

I think the two prime posters are just making stuff up (Randy Owen and XCR-700.) Randy wants to live on Farm Island in the summer. Not even close to the existing or proposed rifle range. He's worried about noise from 300 campers who will not be on Farm Island in any large numbers. They won't be
.c.c.playing ball or other large noisy group games etc.
XCR-700 is speculating about where things are or what might be OK or not OK,
with no apparent knowledge of what is already going on
Randy started a second thread to discuss the mainland squabbles, but also , posted the same opening remarks on the Farm Island thread, totally unrelated,

tGive it a rest, guys, or go to PM's or phones where you can figure ou
what/where you are

the original mission was to try get camp belknap just to follow local and state law. we have certainly strayed far away. though i do believe my mission through social media is to let people understand. in so doing the merits now seem to be of paramount interest

so for the record this is about camp belknap breaking the law. this is about camp belknap ignoring a superior court judge.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

I think the two prime posters are just making stuff up (Randy Owen and XCR-700.) Randy wants to live on Farm Island in the summer. Not even close to the existing or proposed rifle range. He's worried about noise from 300 campers who will not be on Farm Island in any large numbers. They won't be
.c.c.playing ball or other large noisy group games etc.
XCR-700 is speculating about where things are or what might be OK or not OK,
with no apparent knowledge of what is already going on
Randy started a second thread to discuss the mainland squabbles, but also , posted the same opening remarks on the Farm Island thread, totally unrelated,

tGive it a rest, guys, or go to PM's or phones where you can figure ou
what/where you are

Hummm,,, Not sure I am "speculating" I was trying to make any sense of what was posted here and finally determined that its not possible.

Information is being dribbled out and is being mixed up in the most convoluted way possible.

This thread is a nightmare.

It is clear there are all kinds of personal agendas here and very little coherent and factual information.

I wish I had never read anything in this thread or posted a single response.

If anyone thinks it will help to untangle the matter, I would be more than happy to delete everything I posted as there is no way it was of any value in any way to any one.

Again, I truly wish I had never seen this thread and my apologies to all for adding to this nightmare of confusion.

If I had a good mallet handy I would wack myself in the head hoping it would erase my memory of this mess,,,