Jets Flying Overhead

[skisox24]

we live in Meredith and for the past couple of weeks including this afternoon we have heard what sounds like military jets flying back and forth overhead.

Any clue what's going on?

[WinnisquamZ]

Same


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[XCR-700]

National Guard practicing for the election meltdown,,,

[gwhite13]

today many engines were heard over mboro. none were visible to us, oddly one firing seemed to stop suddenly... waited for the crash...maybe a test fire at mboro airport?

[steve-on-mark]

Saw some fighterjets flying overhead this afternoon...training i assume..

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[Barney Bear]

Great when they turned on the plane's afterburners. Watched the pair with binoculars. 🐻

[rick35]

Noisy F-15 Eagles. A couple of them. Grabbed my camera with my new big telephoto and took a few shots. And then found that the memory card was still in the computer from when I uploaded the last photos I took. Darn.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by skisox24

we live in Meredith and for the past couple of weeks including this afternoon we have heard what sounds like military jets flying back and forth overhead.

Any clue what's going on?

I believe there is a base in Vermont that they fly out of. The past couple of weeks we have seen 3 helicopters flying over, a large cargo plane flying very low and heard ( but could not find them in the sky) one of the jets flying around. VERY LOUD. A few years ago I watched 2 flying over the lake doing maneuvers and shooting flares at each other.

[mofn]

The wife & I about 2 weeks ago were saying how quite it has been?
Maybe 1? N.H.N.G. Blackhawk flight.
Zero low level C-130's, their good for 1 or 2 passes in the summer, sometimes 2 at a time.
The odd one was 3? weeks ago at dusk towards Mt. Major in flight refueling. Did not know they did it so close to Pease, never seen it that close.

[upthesaukee]

There is a large Military Operations Area that covers the Lakes Region and extends north up to the White Mountains.

Dave

[NH.Solar]

The reason that you are hearing them so much now is because the new F22 Raptors are much louder than the F16s they are replacing. The fly out of both NJ and Burlington Vt National Guard centers to practice over the Sandwich range because the terrain is similar to what they may encounter in the mid-east. When you are hearing a lot of activity is usually indicates that there may be a new deployment coming up, and once that happens it will quiet down again for a couple of months.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

The reason that you are hearing them so much now is because the new F22 Raptors are much louder than the F16s they are replacing. The fly out of both NJ and Burlington Vt National Guard centers to practice over the Sandwich range because the terrain is similar to what they may encounter in the mid-east. When you are hearing a lot of activity is usually indicates that there may be a new deployment coming up, and once that happens it will quiet down again for a couple of months.

The Green Mountain Boys are replacing their F-16s with F-35s, not F-22s. Still loud, but a different aircraft.

A few years ago I watched 2 flying over the lake doing maneuvers and shooting flares at each other.

They weren't shooting flares at each other; the flares are used to decoy IR sensors on anti-air missiles.

[rick35]

The planes that visited yesterday were F-15's

[rick35]

I saw a different kind of aircraft fly overhead yesterday. I had never seen a CH-47 Chinook before. That's the helicopter with the twin rotors. I haven't seen the Air National Guard med choppers based out of Concord this summer. The last I heard they had deployed.

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by rick35

I saw a different kind of aircraft fly overhead yesterday. I had never seen a CH-47 Chinook before. That's the helicopter with the twin rotors. I haven't seen the Air National Guard med choppers based out of Concord this summer. The last I heard they had deployed.

Yep, that Chinook flew right over the top of our place!

[rick35]

Other cool things that have flown over:

1. Two helos refueling from a C-130 up and down the Broads
2. B-1 bomber flying low buzzing the lake. Probably wasn't that low but was just really big. Must have been saying hi to mom and dad.
3. Hood blimp flew really low just above our trees. It was pretty quiet and the next thing you know it's right over us.

[tis]

Really? Refueling over the water? Now isn't that smart.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by tis

Really? Refueling over the water? Now isn't that smart.

They refuel over water all the time.... Not a big deal!

Woodsy

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by tis

Really? Refueling over the water? Now isn't that smart.

would you prefer over your house ?

[tis]

We are so careful with other things around the lake and we risk the chance of fuel going into the lake?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by tis

We are so careful with other things around the lake and we risk the chance of fuel going into the lake?

Maybe they do a dry run? No fuel exchange, just practice connection and flying together.
We used to practice bombing and mining, but never dropped any actual bombs or mines.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Descant

Maybe they do a dry run? No fuel exchange, just practice connection and flying together.
We used to practice bombing and mining, but never dropped any actual bombs or mines.

Let's hope.

[gbracer53]

I attached a couple of flight tracks of a refueling op that occurred in May. (I seemed to have a lot of free time on my hands in the spring and I spent a lot of time “surfing the net”. That’s how I found this app!) Standard stuff available on the flight aware web site. This tanker originated in NJ, refueled another AC in the racetrack pattern that covers central NH and VT, Then heads down to western PA and then back to NJ. The close up of the leg up from Concord to the turn at Laconia shows them not flying over the Lake. Just so you know, there is a 10 minute or so lag between where the aircraft is and where it shows up on the flight aware tracking app. I guess it’s some kind of security thing. At any rate, if you see a refueling flight overhead, look on the app down around Concord. You might pickup the flight!

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by tis

Let's hope.

You should be worrying more about any of the dozens of gas pumps around the lake, that are located over the water, malfunctioning and polluting the lake. The chances of that happening are much greater than an aerial refueling incident that might affect the lake.

[WeirsGuard]

Flew on KC-135 Tankers while in the AF. Valving and other safety features prevent any large amounts of fuel from being dumped during Air Refueling. Also, aviation fuel vaporizes very quickly at the altitudes we refueled at. Even at low levels vaporization is quick. I would have to dig out the old checklists but I believe our emergency fuel dump procedures had a minimum altitude of 3000 ft. Used to love using Eagle Island as a radar offset for turning on the NE leg of AR Track 212 which runs right up over Northern New England into Maine.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by tis

Let's hope.

You are worried about a big bunch of nothing.... like Guard said: at those altitudes, the fuel vaporizes and disperses very quickly in the atmosphere.

More fuel gets dumped into the lake at the marina gas stations... and even that evaporates quickly.

Woodsy

[NH.Solar]

Gasoline is fairly volatile and unless a spill is large it will most likely cause little permanent damage. It won't mix with the water and will evaporate off the warm lake surface fairly quickly this time of year. That isn't to say that every spilled drop doesn't count and all precautions should be taken in proper fueling, any petroleum product spilled on lake, or anywhere for that matter, is a very bad thing for our environment!
I suspect however that most of the damage being done to the lakes right now comes from lawns and artificial plantings near the shoreline and it is the nitrogen and phosphorous from fertilizers mis and over applied to them that is causing the worst harm to Winnipesaukee.
The water quality early this past spring was noticeably better than it is now, due I'm sure to the quiet and inactivity created by the virus and the stay at home orders. Still, it didn't compare to the crystal clear water I remember as a kid growing up on the lake in the 60s and 70s. At that time when the light was right it was easy to see the bottom twenty+ feet down, there was no milfoil to speak of, and most rocks didn't have a film of algae. The lake will never again be that beautiful due to the overpopulation it now has, but a lot of ground could certainly be recovered if there were no lawn fertilizing allowed within 250' of the shoreline.
I have covered my shore front from 50 feet back with a few inches of organic NH mulch from Ambrose. It is soft to walk on, smells great, and decomposes naturally just like the forest duff that used to cover most of our lake's shores. Within 50' of the water my shorefront is just as natural as the day I found it and mostly covered in blueberry bushes ...as it should be

[XCR-700]

No idea what people are talking about leaky gas pumps on Winnipesaukee, I havent seen a gas rainbow in 20 years. As a kid I recall how sloppy people were often using 5 gal jugs, and pouring 2 cycle oil, and you would see significant slicks.

I have truly not seen a single gas or oil spill of any size in so many years I cannot recall.

[gwhite13]

My grandparents had a cabin on a dirt road in york beach, twice each summer the town would come by and spray oil on the road. Hey, no dust..oh to be a kid again.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

No idea what people are talking about leaky gas pumps on Winnipesaukee, I havent seen a gas rainbow in 20 years. As a kid I recall how sloppy people were often using 5 gal jugs, and pouring 2 cycle oil, and you would see significant slicks.

I have truly not seen a single gas or oil spill of any size in so many years I cannot recall.

If you are referring to my post above ("... gas pumps... malfunctioning and polluting the lake"), I am not talking specifically about any current or past incidents of leaky gas pumps; I am simply making a comparison of the chances of fuel getting into the lake by a marina gas pump problem versus an aerial refueling incident over the lake.

[dickiej]

NH Solar....you are so right....the use of fertilizer from all those who want green lawns is causing so much environmental damage to our lakes, rivers and groundwater that it should be made illegal. The first thing we did when we bought our new house in Washington was tear up the lawn and put in a rock garden.

[dickiej]

Why would you want a lawn when you can have this?

[TiltonBB]

Really? IMHO that would look way better with a nice green lawn. (And if all the weeds/grass in the street were killed)

[ApS]

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

At that time when the light was right it was easy to see the bottom twenty+ feet down, there was no milfoil to speak of, and most rocks didn't have a film of algae. The lake will never again be that beautiful due to the overpopulation it now has, but a lot of ground could certainly be recovered if there were no lawn fertilizing allowed within 250' of the shoreline.
I have covered my shore front from 50 feet back with a few inches of organic NH mulch from Ambrose. It is soft to walk on, smells great, and decomposes naturally just like the forest duff that used to cover most of our lake's shores. Within 50' of the water my shorefront is just as natural as the day I found it and mostly covered in blueberry bushes ...as it should be

You can still see 20+feet down, if you boat to the edge of winter's ice!

We used a grapnel to pull up our mooring chain. Alas, we can't see the mooring in spring any longer.

Lake Winnipesaukee, like other NH lakes, was formerly surrounded by forests of White Pine. (White Pine is the first tree to recover from forest fires, which were plentiful before "discovery").

Below every mature pine tree is a thick mat of discarded needles, which strongly resists erosion. Compare with the tiny needles of Eastern Hemlock, which wash away after "tear-down" lots are cleared of the White Pines. (The building industry pays a fortune for straight pine logs--and even more for the decimated Red Pine).

The lake would be self-healing with a White Pine restoration project and no fertilizers or weed-killer.

Ever seen that 50-foot shoreline-strip of brown, underfertilized grass?

Me neither.

[dickiej]

TiltonBB....that's my point! I agree...I would love a nice green lawn, but in order to have a nice green lawn you need fertilizer and lots of water....lawn fertilizing is becoming an environmental disaster for groundwater and lakes and rivers and all the watering is a waste of resources.

[rick35]

How did this go from jets to lawns?

[steve-on-mark]

Originally Posted by rick35

How did this go from jets to lawns?

It's a natural progression!

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[WinnisquamZ]

Haha


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[dickiej]

Jets flying over lake.....jets refueling over lake....fuel spilling into lake....lake getting polluted....water getting cloudy...why is water getting cloudy....phosphorous from fertilizer not good....

[Barney Bear]

Do not fertilize your jets!

[dickiej]

....or put jet fuel on your lawn....

[steve-on-mark]

Jets fly...geese fly...jet fuel on lawn...goose poop on lawn...

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[JEEPONLY]

Its been happening for years!
Is it possible goose poop neutralizers jet fuel?

[tis]

And I guess my whole thought was, we are so fussy about what goes into the lake, that I am surprised we allow the risk of an accident by allowing the refueling of planes over it. Even though it may be a very low risk I imagine it could happen. Is there a reason the military needs to do it over water rather than on land?

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by tis

And I guess my whole thought was, we are so fussy about what goes into the lake, that I am surprised we allow the risk of an accident by allowing the refueling of planes over it. Even though it may be a very low risk I imagine it could happen. Is there a reason the military needs to do it over water rather than on land?

The air refueling tracks are not made up on the fly (pun intended); they are established in coordination with the FAA and are pretty expansive. (See the track in post #23 as depicted by flight aware.) Given the size of the AR tracks, there is no practical way to keep the entire evolution over dry land. As previously mentioned, your concern about jet fuel finding its way into the lake because of some kind of air refueling incident is seriously misplaced.

[tis]

Except that accidents can and do happen.

[mowtorman]

As a kid Mr. Darcy from up the street used to pull sonic booms over the neighborhood before they pushed them out to sea very exciting. Accidents happen in the lake every day and no one seems to mind. When Plattsburgh was open the activity was much busier along the Worcester range in VT. especially refueling never any reported mishaps. I was in a lean to one early am in June at Tuckerman's and a jet fighter came right over the lip and down it was stunning to see. The cargo planes used to fly over my house at low altitude and the house would shake on training missions. The Vermont Air National Guard f-16s were deployed at least once to Iraq/Afghanistan. I'm glad we have the best military and equipment in the world out there training in the event that our comfortable existence is actually threatened some day. Just like yesterday through the day the anti-tank gatling guns were firing repeatedly at the range in Jericho so they can train to use them and constantly develop them. They can be heard for 5-10 miles when they are fired. They are mounted in many applications. They were developed at GE in Burlington VT which was sold to General Dynamics.

[mhtranger]

Originally Posted by dickiej

TiltonBB....that's my point! I agree...I would love a nice green lawn, but in order to have a nice green lawn you need fertilizer and lots of water....lawn fertilizing is becoming an environmental disaster for groundwater and lakes and rivers and all the watering is a waste of resources.

Problem is no one knows how to read a bag. They use the whole bag on their lawn. If put down correctly it won’t cause any long term affects.

[dickiej]

Or use a fertilizer like milorganite...organic...."from the sewers of Milwaukie"

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by tis

Except that accidents can and do happen.

No doubt. Unless you want all potentially harmful activities to completely stop, the key is to actively decrease the risks of pollution and to have realistic response plans in place when something does go wrong. As previously pointed out, the risks to the lake presented by aerial refueling are tiny when compared to the normal activities that all of us and others take part in on a daily basis on and around the lake.

[NH.Solar]

If the jets flew low enough maybe they would suck up a few of the damn geese pooping all over the place...

[MAXUM]

They are back out right now flying around.

Pretty cool!

[Barney Bear]

Could hear them flying to the north of East Bear Island this afternoon, but never saw them. 🐻

[map]

Originally Posted by GTO

I believe there is a base in Vermont that they fly out of. The past couple of weeks we have seen 3 helicopters flying over, a large cargo plane flying very low and heard ( but could not find them in the sky) one of the jets flying around. VERY LOUD. A few years ago I watched 2 flying over the lake doing maneuvers and shooting flares at each other.

Yes. We were in VT the last week of July for vacation. We go every year to Smugglers Notch and this year for the first time we heard them flying over head for days. But we were damned if we could see them!

[mowtorman]

Are flying regularly over Mt. Mansfield and the Worcester Range. Someone in the VT Air National Guard told me a regular flight for them is over the Green and White Mountains to Bangor. As a guard member you could sign up to take a vacant back seat if you want to on the F-16s. He said it was an absolute thrill with some high g maneuvers and he was sick almost the whole ride haha. I've seen the F-35s on the runway and take off but have not spotted one over the mountains even though they are much louder than the F-16s. They are way ahead of their sound on a perfectly clear day should be able to see one.

[Barney Bear]

At what elevation do the jets fly in this area? 🐻

[mowtorman]

The air guard friend said the pilot buzzed near the Mt. Washington Observatory just for kicks and did one barrel roll just because he knew my friend was struggling don't mess with these guys !! I took my 3 little kids (at the time) to the VT Air Guard family (3,5, and7) open house. They said there was a mockup of an F-16 on public display and one of the airmen pointed at some hangars. I walked down with the kids to an open hangar with one F-16 with a tall ladder to the cockpit (These things are big). I climbed the ladder with my 5 and 7 year old one at a time in front of me and they each climbed in the cockpit. The 5 year old was in the cockpit and we hear yelling "Hey get out of there what are you doing?". Needless to say it was fully at the ready. He wasn't angry he just said that there is some type of button at the base of the seat that activates the ejection seat. If it goes off the person would get blown into the ceiling of the hangar and most likely killed. Got away with that moment but not one for the parenting hall of fame. They roped off the hangar when we walked out.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by mowtorman

If it goes off the person would get blown into the ceiling of the hangar and most likely killed. Got away with that moment but not one for the parenting hall of fame. They roped off the hangar when we walked out.

That is absolutely correct on the ejection seat. While I was in the Navy there was a plane captain who was working on an F/A-18 in one of the hangers at NAS San Diego that was killed when the ejection seat activated - he was in the cockpit at time of the incident. The seat blew through the roof of the hanger. It was rumored that the plane captain failed to deactivate\safety the seat.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

Could hear them flying to the north of East Bear Island this afternoon, but never saw them. 🐻

Stealth geese.

[mowtorman]

70 members of the VT Air Guard were called up yesterday headed to Europe for a year. The Guard isn't two weeks a year and one weekend a month. Thank goodness they are out there training. I wonder if China and India will actually get into it. We've already said we support India. Fighting over desolate land not exactly waterfront property.

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by rick35

How did this go from jets to lawns?

Some planes land on grass runways.

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Jdarby

Some planes land on grass runways.

Safe to say, you've been away?

You're talking about a post that is 40 days and 25 other posts ago.

However- I still remember the grass landing area in Tuftonboro that had the Burma Shave signs along Rt. 171.

I don't remember which rhyme it was- but someone does!?!

[tis]

Jeep, I think the signs are still there.