Can't decide on property, we want our cake and eat it too

[mswlogo]

We sold a nice property on NewFound lake recently, half regret it now. It's really hard separating the property itself from the memories attached to it. But we want something on the lakes for sure.

Newfound property was on a southwest corner of a bay so the house faced east (very little sun), but the beach faced north or northwest a little. So the beach got sunsets from for about 2 months. The season always felt so short. The beach got the wind and the house was protected.

We are looking all over all the lakes. Including the islands.

There are some properties on Winni on "the broads". Gorgeous clear water, break walls, sunsets year round. But how often is it temping to swim in? We know from newfound that if the prevailing wind (from northwest) was above 5 mph, it was not a swim day (unless 95 F out), until evening anyway. But wind in any other direction it was pretty calm. Most evenings it calmed down. It looks like calm days on the broads would be more rare (wider range of wind direction that generates chop) and not sure how "calm" an evening typically is on the broads.

We are also not sure about a house in the sun all day. Some are nestled in the trees some aren't. We've had that exposure before. Wood siding checks like crazy. Needs paint every 5 years etc. Our spot on NewFound was great that way that the house was not so exposed but the beach was (but a short season). There is nothing on Newfound available and if it does, it's gonna be a bidding war and probably go above $1.5m if it's private and has sunsets.

There are a few spots that are the best of both available on Winni, like our place on newfound. House protected but sun on other parts of the property when you want it. Evening Sun probably until mid September. Problem is, it's on an island. We are worried about overpaying and being hard to get rid off if the island life is not for us. We read the island threads. Lot of very happy people. But the happiness seems more to do with the lake life than the island life specifically. We know lake property is great almost where ever you are . Our stuff is in a pod. We'd like to salvage the summer, if possible. But that's not an absolute requirement.

Next summer could be worse in terms of availability of a lot better depending on what happens with COVID.

The calm "deep" coves on Winni don't look tempting to swim in. Dark bottom and/or weedy cloudy water. We almost bought a nice house on NewFound that was on a marshy area. But we couldn't deal with the dark bottom and cloudy water after having crystal clear water.

We are looking around $1 - $1.5m. But good places are getting scooped up fast.
If it's on the high end of that there are properties that have a cottage or in law apt that can help offset cost.

We are trying not to rush due to lack of availability but we are struggling. COVID is really skewing things this season. Properties that sat 2 years now have 5 offers on them.

I think what we really want would cost $3m. So we have to compromise somewhere. Our property on NewFound was on the new side as well. New can be a curse too, because you want to keep it nice.

Deal with the broads? We'll get used to it and the sunsets, long days, and long season make up for it. Easy resale if for some reason we need to sell. Yes, I know we should rent first. But that could take years to learn what's best. We know a fair bit about the lakes. But surely not everything.

Deal with an island? Gotta buy a big boat. Had a 20ft Tige on NewFound for 20 years. But I think Winni needs at least a 23ft on an island. Also worried about parking at a rented (seasonal) slip. We have researched that (might have to park aways on busy weekends but there is enough parking). island still even with big boat, storage and slip would be significantly cheaper than NewFound was. Newfound taxes were very high ($16k), part of the reason we sold. That tax seems cheap to me now. island might work because I can work remote a lot (100% right now due to COVID).

Also Northeast side of Winni is cheap on taxes (Moultanboro and Tuftonboro). But there seems very little for grocery stores and restaurants (long ride by car or boat). Much more on the west side (that we frequented from NewFound and familiar with). Wolfborough is nice but super expensive. Taxes are very high on west side (Meridith and Gilford). Alton area is a reasonable balance (close to stuff, not far to drive from MA, not bad taxes), but would probably end up on the broads (maybe).

Sorry for the rambling. I know only we can decide but I'd be curious if folks had addition thoughts.

Also one note. I sold my Tige boat last year. I was getting little nervous of water skiing at 61 and getting hurt with bones that don't heal so quick. We had a nice beach so we didn't need to head out to a sand bar or anything. We have a Hobie Tandem island boat that we loved and just had that. But I missed being able to motor out now and then, we were considering another smaller motor boat (maybe even an EV one ). Tige was too much boat for the amount we used it. Loved that boat though, horrible on any chop though. Also it's mostly my wife and I so we often didn't have a spotter. We've tried to move towards being more green. Have solar in mass and two EV's. Our net energy bill is -$2000.00/year (i.e. we make money) That all goes out the window if we go with an island. Big boat and swap one EV for probably a Midsize SUV (which we had before). It's not a huge deal but it makes us feel a little guilty.

[Biggd]

It sounds like you are going to have to settle for something less than what you already had. Not to dig the knife in any deeper but I would love to have had your problems on Newfound Lake.
Good luck with you're search. It's a sellers market right now.

[ishoot308]

PM sent...

Dan

[TheProfessor]

Just viewed (heard about) a 1935 built camp sell for $1.1 million in April 2020.
Then resold for 1.450 million in June 2020.

Off lake, heard about 2 homes off lake that sold for over asking price.

Unless you have children or grand children to entertain. Just purchase a nice home off any lake.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Biggd

It sounds like you are going to have to settle for something less than what you already had. Not to dig the knife in any deeper but I would love to have had your problems on Newfound Lake.
Good luck with you're search. It's a sellers market right now.

In hind site I would too. But I didn't get into all the problems.

Road to it was steep and would wash out every moderate T-Storm. I had a tractor to fix it, and could fix it in 20 minutes. We could have paved the road but it would be expensive. And was concerned it would feel to residential.

Because it was a on south cove I'd haul 3-5 trailer loads (5k lbs Gross wt trailer) from Ice out to middle of June. A lot of work. Often spent half my weekend hauling stuff away.

It was a 3 level house (Washroom in Finished Cellar and Bedrooms on 2nd floor). And another level (and a half) to the water. My wife is slightly handy capped. She managed it, but it was a lot. We had a golf cart she could use to get from cellar level down to water.

We could not have garage. Cars covered in sap and pine needles got old. Even a car port would have been tricky on this site. You had to back down the steep road to get out. Which was a compromise and that was never an issue for us or guests.

Septic was newish (1996, same as house) but not state approved. And labeled as 2 Bedroom seasonal by the state. We lost a buyer because of that (we didn't even know until we got the septic review). But next buyer accepted it.

Property also had a very old boathouse which was cool. I used it for storage because there was just no place to put stuff.

I could launch my boat from the property which was feature nice too. 230 ft frontage. 120 was sandy and gradual and all sand everywhere. Never needed to bring in sand.

Taxes as I said were high.

Sun was limited. To get that sunset for 2 month I mentioned above, my neighbor allowed me to put my dock right up to their property line. That added about 2 weeks on either side, helped a lot. With out that sunset hit our property about 4 weeks year. And sun would go out at maybe 6pm and come back.

But in hind site, I wish we kept it. We didn't know what it would sell for. Nervous about committing to something new before selling.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

In hind site I would too. But I didn't get into all the problems.

Road to it was steep and would wash out every moderate T-Storm. I had a tractor to fix it, and could fix it in 20 minutes. We could have paved the road but it would be expensive. And was concerned it would feel to residential.

Because it was a on south cove I'd haul 3-5 trailer loads (5k lbs Gross wt trailer) from Ice out to middle of June. A lot of work. Often spent half my weekend hauling stuff away.

It was a 3 level house (Washroom in Finished Cellar and Bedrooms on 2nd floor). And another level (and a half) to the water. My wife is slightly handy capped. She managed it, but it was a lot. We had a golf cart she could use to get from cellar level down to water.

We could not have garage. Cars covered in sap and pine needles got old. Even a car port would have been tricky on this site. You had to back down the steep road to get out. Which was a compromise and that was never an issue for us or guests.

Septic was newish (1996, same as house) but not state approved. And labeled as 2 Bedroom seasonal by the state. We lost a buyer because of that (we didn't even know until we got the septic review). But next buyer accepted it.

Property also had a very old boathouse which was cool. I used it for storage because there was just no place to put stuff.

I could launch my boat from the property which was feature nice too. 230 ft frontage. 120 was sandy and gradual and all sand everywhere. Never needed to bring in sand.

Taxes as I said were high.

Sun was limited. To get that sunset for 2 month I mentioned above, my neighbor allowed me to put my dock right you to their property line. That added about 2 weeks on either side. With out that sunset hit our property about 4 weeks. And sun would go out at maybe 6pm and come back.

But in hind site, I wish we kept it. We didn't know what it would sell for. Nervous about committing to something new before selling.

Maybe you should try Winnisquam. There were some nice properties in that price range and it's not quite as busy as Winni. Personally, Winni is too busy for my liking.
I'm on Waukewan and property goes fast on that lake because very few come available. It's just a crazy time right now.
I bought a new pontoon boat last August so this 4th of July I decided to sell my two Sea Doo jet ski's. I sold them both that weekend for more money than I paid for them.
It seems like anything to do with out door activities and property in the Lakes region is in high demand right now.

[Barney Bear]

Caution - Island living is not for everyone as noted in several threads. Do not even consider it unless you have tried it.

We have been on the east side of Bear Island for 53 years, and love it. However, weather is always a big factor to be aware of. This morning we left early for the mainland to get ahead of an oncoming storm. Made it okay, but we decided that it was not a smart move and we should have waited.

As you mentioned, a boat, a slip on the mainland, hauling everything, etc. are important things to consider. Good luck in your search. 🐻

[Seaplane Pilot]

Like they say, the grass is always greener on the other side....

But you may want to kick the can down the road for a while until the impending (in my opinion) bubble bursts. Once it does, you can go bottom feeding for the property of your dreams. History has proven this time and time again. Good luck.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Like they say, the grass is always greener on the other side....

But you may want to kick the can down the road for a while until the impending (in my opinion) bubble bursts. Once it does, you can go bottom feeding for the property of your dreams. History has proven this time and time again. Good luck.

That is an option we have been considering. Back in March we also expected the "bubble to burst" and we knew things were selling down even in MA (COVID hotspot) and up on the lakes. But we didn't realize how much it was gonna hurt not having a place to go to.

We are willing to take a hit on a market dip, assuming it will eventually bounce back. We are also worried prices might get driven up for a while too. Because of so little inventory.

Nothing makes sense these days.

BTW a realtor told me folks are removing their listings due to "COVID" fears because NH is a low COVID infected state.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

That is an option we have been considering. Back in March we also expected the "bubble to burst" and we knew things were selling down even in MA (COVID hotspot) and up on the lakes. But we didn't realize how much it was gonna hurt not having a place to go to.

We are willing to take a hit on a market dip, assuming it will eventually bounce back. We are also worried prices might get driven up for a while too. Because of so little inventory.

Nothing makes sense these days.

BTW a realtor told me folks are removing their listings due to "COVID" fears because NH is a low COVID infected state.

I sort of thought the same thing that the bubble would burst earlier this year, but we can see how that has turned out! And you're right, nothing makes sense these days. Again, good luck with your endeavors.

[jazzman]

We face Southwest and it's kind of the best of all worlds. The season is easily a month longer at either end because of the sun exposure and in the middle of summer you're protected from the hot sun in the west after 4pm. Sunsets are available every day of the year.

We're on the broads. It can make boat docking challenging in a NW wind, but I don't find it impedes swimming (if you're exposed on the broads, you'll likely have a breakwater which can make swimming a little easier).

Of course the NE views are the best, but looking at the Belknap mountains is pretty nice too.

I'm a big fan of the east side of the lake. There is way less human and boat traffic over here. You need to make sure you understand weekend boat patterns as part of the equation. The western shore of the lake is like a 4 lane highway on nice weekend days and the east side has a few choke points too that can get pretty busy.

We find a flat yard between the house and the water to be really nice. You get a much better sense of living on the water from that perspective.

I happen to live on an island and love the lifestyle. You do need a decent sized boat. You do need a mainland dock. There are days when you really can't leave, so you have to plan ahead a little. But, there are way fewer people around and it's very quiet. I can go a week in the shoulder seasons and not interact with another human.

Island house prices are about 1/2 of mainland (and of course the taxes are too). You can find a pretty nice island place for way less than your budget.

[MeredithMan]

...When we were finally able to afford a place on the water, we thought it would be an easy purchase. Not so. We looked at about 15 places over the course of more than a year. Some had a nice house, but crappy water quality; Some had great water, but a crappy house; Some never had shade; some never had sun; and so on, and so on. We finally made a list of "must haves": things we would not compromise on; and "nice to haves": things we would compromise on. We finally found a place that checked all the boxes, with the only real compromise being not a great dog yard, (we have two goldens who like to run and wrestle with each other).

The unfortunate part was that the house checked everyone else's boxes too, and after only being for sale for 3 days, it was shaping up to be multiple offers. Fortunately, the realtors handled it responsibly and there was no bidding war and playing one buyer off the other. Everyone had to submit "best and final" at the same time. And this was 8 years ago...

So, I would say determine what you will compromise on; stick to your budget, (don't get emotional with your money); be prepared that you might lose out to someone else; but, take comfort in words of wisdom that someone gave me a long time ago, (that apply to almost any situation in life): "you'll be where you're supposed to be"

[Descant]

Boating on Winnipesaukee is a lot different than Newfound. If you live on an island, boat commuting is a whole new experience. Many of us have multiple boats. You may be able to telecommute, but quality of internet varies a lot.
Go to VRBO and rent a place for a couipe of weeks. Anywhere, sunset etc irrelevant. Find out what Winnipesaukee is like, then start some sort of search. You may decide another lake is for you. There are island places on Homeaway and VRBO too.

[thinkxingu]

Best of luck in your search. It's disheartening to hear that it might be difficult to find what you're looking for even at the price you're willing to pay.

I do agree that it's perhaps waiting for the market to change—it's only a matter of time as the next half year will see many financial struggles catching up to people.

I wish you the best.

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[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Descant

Boating on Winnipesaukee is a lot different than Newfound. If you live on an island, boat commuting is a whole new experience. Many of us have multiple boats. You may be able to telecommute, but quality of internet varies a lot.
Go to VRBO and rent a place for a couipe of weeks. Anywhere, sunset etc irrelevant. Find out what Winnipesaukee is like, then start some sort of search. You may decide another lake is for you. There are island places on Homeaway and VRBO too.

I know about the internet issues.

Speaking of internet. Does Cellular data get bogged down during peak season on Winni (Verizon)?

I think renting during prime time vs owning for a full season are completely different. I'm sure it would be helpful but it won't expose a lot of it. Like no access in Winter is a big one to us. We would occasionally come up in winter and cross country on NewFound. So that's out.

We don't mind taking a chance on an island but it's hard to judge the value on the islands. We just want to make sure we are paying "market" value. Prices might drop everywhere next year, who knows, can't forecast that (or I should say can forecast when that might happen). Holding on to what we had would have been no different than buying something else.

[jazzman]

The very first thing I did at any house we looked at was test the internet speed on both Verizon and ATT since I was a work at home person. Pretty much any place (even islands), has access to at least DSL. I was actually pleasantly surprised that "working from home" was very doable even on 2.5 mbps DSL. I did have 2 levels of backup though. DSL -> ATT mifi -> tethered verizon smart phone. I never missed a day of work in 6 seasons of working from home.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by jazzman

The very first thing I did at any house we looked at was test the internet speed on both Verizon and ATT since I was a work at home person. Pretty much any place (even islands), has access to at least DSL. I was actually pleasantly surprised that "working from home" was very doable even on 2.5 mbps DSL. I did have 2 levels of backup though. DSL -> ATT mifi -> tethered verizon smart phone. I never missed a day of work in 6 seasons of working from home.

I checked Verizon "Signal Strength" at a few properties but I should have done a real data speed test. But it was not on a weekend with peak usage either and my guess is, it was fine (at that time).

I heard cellular data can get bogged down due to all the users during peak periods.

[BroadHopper]

Family been on Winnipesaukee since 1892. I grew up on The Broads from 1950 to about 2000. The family moved to Winnisquam because the atmosphere of the lake and neighborhood was getting worst. Never regret the move, in fact a number of 'old families' have moved to other lakes in the Lakes Region.
I envy those on Newfound Lake. Excellent boat ramp and a friendly atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, Winnisquam is a lot quieter and friendlier than Winnipesaukee. I'm 70 and enjoy waterskiing on this lake because it is a lot calmer, don't have to worry about yahoos cutting me off.

As for the neighborhood, it was basically blue-collar until the mid '90's when taxes skyrocketed and folks decided to sell. Big spenders buy up the properties, tear down beautiful lake cottages and build McMansions. Neighborhoods were known for annual 'block parties' until the NIMBYs call the police. They even call the police if fellow boaters anchor out front to visit! They are so anti-neighborly!

Some food for thoughts if you really want to enjoy Lakes Region.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Family been on Winnipesaukee since 1892. I grew up on The Broads from 1950 to about 2000. The family moved to Winnisquam because the atmosphere of the lake and neighborhood was getting worst. Never regret the move, in fact a number of 'old families' have moved to other lakes in the Lakes Region.
I envy those on Newfound Lake. Excellent boat ramp and a friendly atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, Winnisquam is a lot quieter and friendlier than Winnipesaukee. I'm 70 and enjoy waterskiing on this lake because it is a lot calmer, don't have to worry about yahoos cutting me off.

As for the neighborhood, it was basically blue-collar until the mid '90's when taxes skyrocketed and folks decided to sell. Big spenders buy up the properties, tear down beautiful lake cottages and build McMansions. Neighborhoods were known for annual 'block parties' until the NIMBYs call the police. They even call the police if fellow boaters anchor out front to visit! They are so anti-neighborly!

Some food for thoughts if you really want to enjoy Lakes Region.

My understanding is it varies a lot on where you are on the lake. We are looking mostly at Tuftonboro and Moultonboro on Mainland and islands (nothing on the broads).

Newfound lake was great but there wasn't much to go to by boat after 35 years. We thought it would be cool to go to restaurants by boat. But maybe that's a grass is greener thing.

We have considered Winnisquam, Squam, Sunapee as well. The range of islands on Winni was attractive. Some really nice properties for much less money.

But you post is food for thought. And some of what you said is happening on NewFound as well. Just not as fast as on Winni.

[BroadHopper]

Forgot to add, I still boat on Winnipesaukee during the week. I can actually walk to the marina on the WOW trail. Pontoon boats are great on Winnisquam, not so rough even on weekends! Best of both worlds!

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Forgot to add, I still boat on Winnipesaukee during the week. I can actually walk to the marina on the WOW trail. Pontoon boats are great on Winnisquam, not so rough even on weekends! Best of both worlds!

Borrowed a neighbors pontoon a few times, not sure on size maybe 21ft. They are ok, if you want to putt putt around. But when you want to really get somewhere they typically have no windshield and you get wind blown. Also awkward to cover. I think Winnipesaukee needs a "Deep V" of around 23ft or more. Realtor took us out on a 25ft Cobalt R5 to see island property. Really nice boat. Went through the broads like silk, but it was a pretty calm day (during the week) but there was still a 1ft chop on the way out and 1-2ft on the way back. That would not have been fun on a Pontoon or on a full inboard ski boat like we had. We had a Deep V 18ft I/O before the inboard ski.

[thinkxingu]

You've driven the wrong 'toons.

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[DesertDweller]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

You've driven the wrong 'toons.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I think the OP is just being honest. Not to offend, but if given the choice between a pontoon/tritoon boat or an equivalent length deep V boat in 2 foot type seas and/or windy conditions as described, the choice, for me anyway, would be pretty easy.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by DesertDweller

I think the OP is just being honest. Not to offend, but if given the choice between a pontoon/tritoon boat or an equivalent length deep V boat in 2 foot type seas and/or windy conditions as described, the choice, for me anyway, would be pretty easy.

The R5 looks to be about $100k+. For that money, a 24-26' tritoon with 350+ horsepower would take on anything Winni would put up. Hell, my 20' tritoon with 150 goes wherever, whenever.

Just pointing out they're no longer "putt putt" machines.

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Maybe you should try Winnisquam. There were some nice properties in that price range and it's not quite as busy as Winni. Personally, Winni is too busy for my liking.
I'm on Waukewan and property goes fast on that lake because very few come available. It's just a crazy time right now.
I bought a new pontoon boat last August so this 4th of July I decided to sell my two Sea Doo jet ski's. I sold them both that weekend for more money than I paid for them.
It seems like anything to do with out door activities and property in the Lakes region is in high demand right now.

1) COVID-19, and
2) New York City emptying out...!

I'd suggest investing with brokerage-house Edward Jones, and come back in Winter, 2021.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The R5 looks to be about $100k+. For that money, a 24-26' tritoon with 350+ horsepower would take on anything Winni would put up. Hell, my 20' tritoon with 150 goes wherever, whenever.

Just pointing out they're no longer "putt putt" machines.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I always saw 'toons as mini vans on the lake

Ok, now let's get back on topic.

This internet thing is probably going to be a show stopper for the island place we had our eye on. I don't mind using cellular for back up (Verizon), but not as my primary means of doing work all day. What are folks thoughts on that.

@broadhoppers post did strike a nerve. I was out on Winni touring an island property 2 days before the 4th in the middle of the week. I felt like I was in the Caribbean (25ft Cobalt R5 helped). I don't judge the lakes on prime weekends. It can get a bit crazy on NewFound too. In fact, I miss some of it during the week or after labour day. If you have a nice property, just stay on it But maybe if you have to "commute" through it, it can be a problem.

I would avoid properties with popular sandbars at your door step though.

[thinkxingu]

Whether or not I would rely on a wireless service for working remotely would depend directly on how I would use it. I can use my AT&T hotspot for email, basic websurfing, paying bills, etc. but it's imperfect when using it for Zoom/Meet, streaming video, etc. especially during peak times. I wouldn't expect Verizon to be any different, especially given the reports the last couple years of Verizon hiccups.

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Whether or not I would rely on a wireless service for working remotely would depend directly on how I would use it. I can use my AT&T hotspot for email, basic websurfing, paying bills, etc. but it's imperfect when using it for Zoom/Meet, streaming video, etc. especially during peak times. I wouldn't expect Verizon to be any different, especially given the reports the last couple years of Verizon hiccups.

Recommendations from this site sent me to Verizon. After four years of perfect experiences, reception at the lake fell off. A factory store sold me a matching pair of "modems", which were arguably better.

Two months later, when I'm in Florida, reception slowed to a stop!
Florida factory store advises, "Oh yeah, nobody there has reception". >>SHRUG<<

So I get AT&T--OK in Florida, almost OK in Wolfeboro. (But half the monthly price of Verizon).

Verizon keeps sending bills, and charges $7.50 to speak (one time) to a living Verizon person. So I pay it, and learn my Verizon billing has gone to a collection agency.

I've since written a letter to Verizon headquarters and haven't heard anything back.

[WJT2]

I spent time each summer on an Island at Winnipesaukee and I loved it. No noise no cars relaxing it was great. Here is what I learned.
You need to haul EVERYTHING by boat to Island home( IH). You must have a slip on the mainland. You are limited to use from Ice in to Ice out. Water from the lake, septic issues, power availability, heat source just a few of things come to mind that are a little different from main land living. We had SW exposure and it was great. I would say if you have the time, rent a place near where you would like to be for a month both mainland and island. Then make your final plan. Good luck!! I wish I had your problem!!!

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Like they say, the grass is always greener on the other side....

But you may want to kick the can down the road for a while until the impending (in my opinion) bubble bursts. Once it does, you can go bottom feeding for the property of your dreams. History has proven this time and time again. Good luck.

I agree... patience is a virtue. Once the free money stops flowing... and it will, things will get pretty depressed. My wife and I have been looking for a fishing boat and are amazed so few are available. It seems this has been an outstanding year for boat sales, even used boats are selling close to the price of new. Then again it's understandable, few were working and the government was rewarding everyone to stay home. The free money kept us from the depression that was inevitable, but I don't believe that little boy can hold his finger in the dike forever...

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Whether or not I would rely on a wireless service for working remotely would depend directly on how I would use it. I can use my AT&T hotspot for email, basic websurfing, paying bills, etc. but it's imperfect when using it for Zoom/Meet, streaming video, etc. especially during peak times. I wouldn't expect Verizon to be any different, especially given the reports the last couple years of Verizon hiccups.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Interesting about cellular service...Here on Welch my AT&T cellular is great! Last night I did a speed test and I get 139 Mbps download and 14 Mbps upload. That seems to hold pretty constant and I don't ever see any throttling back by AT&T. This is great speed compared to my DSL speed of 7 Mbps, which is the fastest landline I can get on the island.

Dan

[smith point boater]

sent you a PM

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Interesting about cellular service...Here on Welch my AT&T cellular is great! Last night I did a speed test and I get 139 Mbps download and 14 Mbps upload. That seems to hold pretty constant and I don't ever see any throttling back by AT&T. This is great speed compared to my DSL speed of 7 Mbps, which is the fastest landline I can get on the island.

Dan

Dan, I've mentioned a lot about deprioritization and plan levels. My guess is that that's what we're talking about when we discuss congestion. Also, I'm at the outer range of service, so it's not the strength I get in "full bar" areas. In those, it's very fast service.

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[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Borrowed a neighbors pontoon a few times, not sure on size maybe 21ft. They are ok, if you want to putt putt around. But when you want to really get somewhere they typically have no windshield and you get wind blown. Also awkward to cover. I think Winnipesaukee needs a "Deep V" of around 23ft or more. Realtor took us out on a 25ft Cobalt R5 to see island property. Really nice boat. Went through the broads like silk, but it was a pretty calm day (during the week) but there was still a 1ft chop on the way out and 1-2ft on the way back. That would not have been fun on a Pontoon or on a full inboard ski boat like we had. We had a Deep V 18ft I/O before the inboard ski.

I have a Formula on 'pesaukee. There is nothing like it anywhere! I'd give it a test drive. Expensive but worth it. The 260 SS or BR is perfect, even on rough days!

'Toons are popular on 'squam. I have a 20' Bennie with 150. Great for watersking but hardly a wake boat. At my age I like put puttering around a calm lake. The kids, grandkids love the sandbar scene. Nice on a 'toon. If I have a need for speed the missle is a must have on 'squam!

As SNoel says sell high and buy low! I know a property sold for 300K in 1998, sold for 1.3 mill in 2006, auctioned off in 2009 for 700K, listed but not sold in 2018 for 2.3 mill. Market is a yo yo!

[mswlogo]

I might have found an option for Internet.

It’s called a MoFi.

It’s basically a device you add to your Cellular plan like an iPad.

It has huge Antennas so it can pull in weak signals.

It has Ethernet ports and WiFi like a typical router.

So this doesn’t tie up your phone. Always on.
Can connect things like a Nest Camera, ThermoStat, Smoke Alarms.

You can get them for Verizon, AT&T etc. around $250.

This could be cheaper than FairPoint and better speeds. Depends on your existing plan. Like adding my Apple LTE Watch was free for my plan.

You also have to be careful what Cellular plan your on. Some will throttle during busy hours. Some will throttle Video streaming. I think almost all unlimited plans are now throttled. But if they do offer unlimited and unthrottled, it’s expensive. But that might be more than you need.

Also need to be careful with speed tests. Because they might kick in throttling after a certain amount of data is moved.

Googling MoFi, it’s popular for RV’s.

Curious if anyone is using it. Seems almost to good to be true.

[thinkxingu]

I forgot to add this yesterday—it's closer than I thought: https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/14/sp...is-summer/amp/

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[mswlogo]

I thought about that. I wonder if it will have the same latency issues as Satellite. They are lower orbit but I don't know if that's enough.

[LIforrelaxin]

So I read through this thread and there is a lot of good information here. I wouldn't settle on a property, until I was sure it was what I wanted. Right now people can claim that inventory is low... they always do to try and drive prices higher.

So many people feel uncertain about the future, that they are impulsively buying .... Once we get to the post Covid-19 future, I believe two things are going to happen:
1. More places are going to be available to buy
2. More places are going to start going through foreclosure because people over-extended themselves.

My advice to anyone looking to invest in waterfront property in the lakes region is this.... Make a list of everything your are looking for.... then work to cut that list in half by removing anything that your realize is not practical to expect every property to have...... then cut the list in half again, by striking everything you feel will drive the price of a property out of your range.... What you should end up with is a pretty reasonable set of requirements.

Then look at that list, and decide which items you are willing to invest in over time... i.e home improvements.... and which items need to be their to begin with.... i.e. a good dock for a island home....

In the price range from the O.P. Three should be no problem finding real estate even on the mainland for between 1 to 1.5 million.... But the OP is write you can't expect to have your cake and eat it to.... figure out what is really important....

[winterh]

Interesting thread. I have owned 3 different lake homes over the years with latest being my favorite. Over time I learned what factors were most important to me. My priorities were water quality and depth, western exposure, lower taxes, avoid crazy busy areas, A house that has a rustic cabin feel... What do others value?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

So I read through this thread and there is a lot of good information here. I wouldn't settle on a property, until I was sure it was what I wanted. Right now people can claim that inventory is low... they always do to try and drive prices higher.

So many people feel uncertain about the future, that they are impulsively buying .... Once we get to the post Covid-19 future, I believe two things are going to happen:
1. More places are going to be available to buy
2. More places are going to start going through foreclosure because people over-extended themselves.

My advice to anyone looking to invest in waterfront property in the lakes region is this.... Make a list of everything your are looking for.... then work to cut that list in half by removing anything that your realize is not practical to expect every property to have...... then cut the list in half again, by striking everything you feel will drive the price of a property out of your range.... What you should end up with is a pretty reasonable set of requirements.

Then look at that list, and decide which items you are willing to invest in over time... i.e home improvements.... and which items need to be their to begin with.... i.e. a good dock for a island home....

In the price range from the O.P. Three should be no problem finding real estate even on the mainland for between 1 to 1.5 million.... But the OP is write you can't expect to have your cake and eat it to.... figure out what is really important....

I like the repeated culling of the list, and I agree that each of us has certain things that they should not compromise on. But I advocate for less patience. Think of the number of summers you have left, then decide what percent of those you're willing to compromise to find the "perfect" spot...

[tis]

Originally Posted by winterh

Interesting thread. I have owned 3 different lake homes over the years with latest being my favorite. Over time I learned what factors were most important to me. My priorities were water quality and depth, western exposure, lower taxes, avoid crazy busy areas, A house that has a rustic cabin feel... What do others value?

My three biggest priorities were "nots" (maybe for this site I should say "knots"): not on the broads because of the wind and rough water, not a steep hill, and not an association.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by winterh

Interesting thread. I have owned 3 different lake homes over the years with latest being my favorite. Over time I learned what factors were most important to me. My priorities were water quality and depth, western exposure, lower taxes, avoid crazy busy areas, A house that has a rustic cabin feel... What do others value?

I also have had 3 different Lake houses over the years and the one I have now fits the best for this time in my life.
My first was on Winni in Alton bay, my second was on Winnisquam in Sanbornton, and the one I currently have is is on Waukewan in Meredith.
Can't beat the less busy lake and where it's the town drinking supply for Meredith the water quality is watched closely.
As I have aged I prefer the less busier lake and the fact that I'm in a quiet neighborhood within walking distance to Meredith town docks.
I don't enjoy the crowded waters of Winni like I use to.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The R5 looks to be about $100k+. For that money, a 24-26' tritoon with 350+ horsepower would take on anything Winni would put up. Hell, my 20' tritoon with 150 goes wherever, whenever.

Just pointing out they're no longer "putt putt" machines.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I have both. The difference is when it is not 75 or above I take the regular V hull boat. The wind on the pontoon boat is nice during the day when it is warm but less welcome if we go out to dinner or go visit friends and return at 9 PM on a cool summer night.

Also, early in the season or late in the fall the pontoon boat is just too open for the cooler temperatures. It really depends on when and what you are using them for.

When the water is 45 degrees there is a lot of cold wind on a pontoon boat. If I was on an island and only had one boat I don't think it would be a pontoon boat unless it had decent wind blockage in front.

Just one man's opinion. I am sure there are others!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If I was on an island and only had one boat I don't think it would be a pontoon boat unless it had decent wind blockage in front.

Just one man's opinion. I am sure there are others!

I live on an island all season and I agree Completely! I have a very nice 27’ pontoon and a 22’ fully enclosed Eastern. If I could only have one it would definitely no questions asked be the Eastern!

Dan

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I live on an island all season and I agree Completely! I have a very nice 27’ pontoon and a 22’ fully enclosed Eastern. If I could only have one it would definitely no questions asked be the Eastern!

Dan

How about a enclosed 27' tritoon from helm to the stern. I designed it to have zipper curtain openings over helm along every sitting compartment having it's own zipper opening. Never have to put on the heavy mooring cover. Just zip up each panel encloses from front of the helm back to stern. Forward I still cover the front seating areas. Takes five minutes.

On a hot day unzip the enclosures and you have free flowing air even at higher speeds. Those who only want to sit out in the sun just move forward to the forward seats. Those who don't want wind or sun sit comfortably in the enclosed area. The helm can have all the wind or just zip up to fully enclosed or partial wind. Nice thing about this custom design enclosure it extends the boating season from ice out to late fall. And i never have to fight the big mooring cover. It is really cool looking because I had it designed so that it is all clear with very few seams. Ship Shape did the work for me and were so thrilled about the design they have pictures of it on their studio walls.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

How about a enclosed 27' tritoon from helm to the stern. I designed it to have zipper curtain openings over helm along every sitting compartment having it's own zipper opening. Never have to put on the heavy mooring cover. Just zip up each panel encloses from front of the helm back to stern. Forward I still cover the front seating areas. Takes five minutes.

On a hot day unzip the enclosures and you have free flowing air even at higher speeds. Those who only want to sit out in the sun just move forward to the forward seats. Those who don't want wind or sun sit comfortably in the enclosed area. The helm can have all the wind or just zip up to fully enclosed or partial wind. Nice thing about this custom design enclosure it extends the boating season from ice out to late fall. And i never have to fight the big mooring cover. It is really cool looking because I had it designed so that it is all clear with very few seams. Ship Shape did the work for me and were so thrilled about the design they have pictures of it on their studio walls.

My first couple of pontoons (Manitou & Premier) had covers exactly like this. See pic of my Manitou taken 2008 / 2009, I had my Eastern then too. Yes you can do this and it certainly helps a lot but if your asking me would I take this setup over my Eastern...not a chance!

There is nothing like a hard top, hard side helm with wipers on your windshield in bad weather. No snaps or zippers to deal with, just jump in and go. The Eastern is our primary island boat as well as my primary fishing boat that is a real weatherproof workhorse that we count on to get us to our island home in any weather every single day.

I absolutely love tritoons also and will probably always have one and yes you can certainly get by on an island with that as your only boat with a setup as you describe....it would not be my first choice though.

Now if we are talking sunset cruises, general entertaining, water sports and having fun zipping around the lake...there is nothing like a tritoon with heavy horsepower!

Dan

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

My first couple of pontoons (Manitou & Premier) had covers exactly like this. See pic of my Manitou taken 2008 / 2009, I had my Eastern then too. Yes you can do this and it certainly helps a lot but if your asking me would I take this setup over my Eastern...not a chance!

There is nothing like a hard top, hard side helm with wipers on your windshield in bad weather. No snaps or zippers to deal with, just jump in and go. The Eastern is our primary island boat as well as my primary fishing boat that is a real weatherproof workhorse that we count on to get us to our island home in any weather every single day.

I absolutely love tritoons also and will probably always have one and yes you can certainly get by on an island with that as your only boat with a setup as you describe....it would not be my first choice though.

Now if we are talking sunset cruises, general entertaining, water sports and having fun zipping around the lake...there is nothing like a tritoon with heavy horsepower!

Dan

Dan....hahaha Yes Dan I agree. Sunset cruises with windy days or cruise the entire lake on a hot summer day like we did last weekend. I agree with you. We have a enclosed t top for bad weather off the island transport to our mainland dock. But it isn't a totally enclosed Eastern which I would never take many friends out in a hot summer day cruising. I'm not comparing it to an Eastern or any totally enclosed cabin for cruising. We were just comparing toons Where would a windshield wiper go on a toon? And when you say there is nothing like a tritoon with heavy horsepower. I agree that is what we have. We have a Benny that can take the highest HP rating. I sold my 32' Scarab that I use to race Off Shore for a Bennington Tritoon.

As far as your enclosure on your tritoon it is nothing like we had custom built by Ship Shape. Just one example your helm enclosure looks like it is totally enclosed. Your not able to get any ventilation on a very hot day. On ours the total enclosure zips down where there is no enclosure. And i see the same for every seating position inside your enclosure. That is exactually what I didn't want. I saw what the manufactures were offering similar what you have and I did not want to be in that enclosure on a hot day. So with what we came up with in our design we can go cruising on hot or cold days with 12 people having their choice where they want to sit to be comfortable. I wouldn't expect your Eastern could have that many people enjoying a cruise around the lake in any kind of weather. But don't get me wrong. I had a 30' Eastern on Lake Erie that I loved. It is all about how we feel comfortable with where you boat today under the current weather conditions.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

As far as your enclosure on your tritoon it is nothing like we had custom built by Ship Shape. Just one example your helm enclosure looks like it is totally enclosed. Your not able to get any ventilation on a very hot day. On ours the total enclosure zips down where there is no enclosure. And i see the same for every seating position inside your enclosure. That is exactually what I didn't want. I saw what the manufactures were offering similar what you have and I did not want to be in that enclosure on a hot day.

Just an fyi...The enclosure in that pic has soft screens behind the isinglass so we had full ventilation. The isinglass would roll up and snap into place and the screens allowed for full ventilation. I no longer have that toon and traded it almost 10 years ago...Back then there were not many performance toons on the lake.

Dan

[Newbiesaukee]

Our house buying experience on Winni is a little unusual but perhaps helpful. My wife and I, for both good and bad life situations, had purchased several homes in FL over a short period of time. Although we are both cautious by nature, major life decisions we seem to make quickly. We had always wanted to retire on a lake. As our adult children were up north, when we were able to retire we looked at the map and Winni looked like a good place geographically so we did a little research online. Most of what I could find discussed the Weirs and that seemed too busy for us. As luck would have it, we discussed our search with casual acquaintences who had a home on Winni and they told us we had the wrong idea and Winni was wonderful and had many lifestyles depending on location. They even recommended a realtor. We called her the next day, arranged to fly up and told her we made decisions quickly. We also gave her a price range. We had never been to Winni before and met the realtor on a cold day in November. We spent the entire day with her as she drove us around the Lake and explained the different areas and what was important. Location is all and she emphasized water quality in a lakefront home is paramount and other issues such as taxes, differences in the towns and numerous other factors that we now realize were essential to understand. That evening my wife found a home on the internet which looked great to us. It was on Long Island...we had no real idea where that was. The realtor took us to see the house the next day; she had not seen the house before. We loved it. She pointed out pros and cons. The design was excellent but the builder was not experienced and the amenities, except for kitchen, were pretty low end. The waterfront water quality was excellent but even though Long Island has a bridge it was an 8 mile drive to stores, etc. and we might get tired of it. Even though, it was empty in November when we were there, in summer, as we were near Harillas boat ramp, cars would be lined up on the road and the area would be very busy. She explained that M’Boro had lower taxes than many areas. The point is, that in 2 days with a good honest realtor, you can learn a lot. We bought the house that day. That was 17 years ago and everything she said was true...including the negative observations about the builder. She also told us to buy a used boat no less than 23 feet. We were fortunate but sometimes you just have to do it. Her name is Susan Bradley and I believe she is still working.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by ApS

and come back in Winter, 2021.

Seen many cycles of high prices and dead markets over the decades.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by ApS

and come back in Winter, 2021.

Would love a nice island. But logistics is a tad difficult for some of those isolated islands.

[znh]

We have a camp on the Broads near Ellacoya state park. Yes when you get the 'three day blow' if the wind is from the west it can make swimming and boating a little bit difficult. But the open views, clean clear water and being centrally located on the lake are just some of the part we love about being in that location. From where our marina is we can basically get to any of the major town docks in just about the same amount of time (Center Harbor would be the furthest away). You learn to deal with the wind when it comes in because the trade off for the view and nice beach are well worth it...

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by znh

We have a camp on the Broads near Ellacoya state park. Yes when you get the 'three day blow' if the wind is from the west it can make swimming and boating a little bit difficult. But the open views, clean clear water and being centrally located on the lake are just some of the part we love about being in that location. From where our marina is we can basically get to any of the major town docks in just about the same amount of time (Center Harbor would be the furthest away). You learn to deal with the wind when it comes in because the trade off for the view and nice beach are well worth it...

Looks like LSP by the footbridge to me.

[NH.Solar]

MSWLogo,
If you haven't already done so, be sure to have a conversation with Nancy and Doug Deporter at KW about your real estate search. They know about this area better than most other lakes region realtors, especially when it comes to island living. If you call in the early morning you'll probably find them sitting on their southeast facing island deck enjoying their morning coffee...

[map]

Originally Posted by ApS

1) COVID-19, and
2) New York City emptying out...!

I'd suggest investing with brokerage-house Edward Jones, and come back in Winter, 2021.

I have yet to meet anyone from NY in the Lakes Region. In fact I have only met like 2 603 born and raised. Everyone I have met since moving here from NY in February is from Massachusetts.

[sky's]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Family been on Winnipesaukee since 1892. I grew up on The Broads from 1950 to about 2000. The family moved to Winnisquam because the atmosphere of the lake and neighborhood was getting worst. Never regret the move, in fact a number of 'old families' have moved to other lakes in the Lakes Region.
I envy those on Newfound Lake. Excellent boat ramp and a friendly atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, Winnisquam is a lot quieter and friendlier than Winnipesaukee. I'm 70 and enjoy waterskiing on this lake because it is a lot calmer, don't have to worry about yahoos cutting me off.

As for the neighborhood, it was basically blue-collar until the mid '90's when taxes skyrocketed and folks decided to sell. Big spenders buy up the properties, tear down beautiful lake cottages and build McMansions. Neighborhoods were known for annual 'block parties' until the NIMBYs call the police. They even call the police if fellow boaters anchor out front to visit! They are so anti-neighborly!

Some food for thoughts if you really want to enjoy Lakes Region.

so true man in many ways has ruined Lake Winni. never did anything for me except put food on my table. been in New Hampshire all my life and in Moultonborough for 21 years Columbus day weekend is my favorite time of year.

[JEEPONLY]

We've gone the way of the craw-fish!

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

We've gone the way of the craw-fish!

Yep they are gone with many more species of wildlife.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Biggd

It sounds like you are going to have to settle for something less than what you already had. Not to dig the knife in any deeper but I would love to have had your problems on Newfound Lake.
Good luck with you're search. It's a sellers market right now.

Whatd'ya think?

Year round sunset. Only 3 season but that can be fixed. Has new well and fairly recent septic. Even has a garage (which is in tough shape).

The little "lagoon" is neat. Loons literally nesting right out in front.

It checks about 19 of our 25 boxes

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...92817039_zpid/

[8gv]

Nice home in a nice spot.

I'll take two please.

[Juiced06GTO]

Did you get an offer in, the listing says it is accepting back ups!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Whatd'ya think?

Year round sunset. Only 3 season but that can be fixed. Has new well and fairly recent septic. Even has a garage (which is in tough shape).

The little "lagoon" is neat. Loons literally nesting right out in front.

It checks about 19 of our 25 boxes

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...92817039_zpid/

Very nice, jump on that quickly!

[Doobs41378]

Hopefully you get it. It's a beautiful location and a nice camp as well. Good luck!!

[mswlogo]

Yes, it's ours. So nervous buying on a lake we know so little about. But it sure seems like a nice spot.

Hopefully the loons will still be around by the time we move in, in early September.

It's kind of neat that Winnipesaukee is just 10 minutes down the road.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Yes, it's ours. So nervous buying on a lake we know so little about. But it sure seems like a nice spot.

Hopefully the loons will still be around by the time we move in, in early September.

It's kind of neat that Winnipesaukee is just 10 minutes down the road.

Congrats, and good luck!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[tis]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Yes, it's ours. So nervous buying on a lake we know so little about. But it sure seems like a nice spot.

Hopefully the loons will still be around by the time we move in, in early September.

It's kind of neat that Winnipesaukee is just 10 minutes down the road.

Congratulations!! It does look like a pretty spot. The loons will be here until just before Thanksgiving. They know when ice in is coming.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Yes, it's ours. So nervous buying on a lake we know so little about. But it sure seems like a nice spot.

Hopefully the loons will still be around by the time we move in, in early September.

It's kind of neat that Winnipesaukee is just 10 minutes down the road.

Congrats! Squam is a beautiful lake and the area is a little less congested than Winni.
It can be more challenging to boat as it has a lot of rock outcrops but once you learn navigating the lake you will love it.

[JEEPONLY]

However- at 1.2, it seems a bit pretentious for people to refer to it as a camp.

[FlyingScot]

Congrats, msw! As you probably know, you're super lucky to find any place on Squam, with less than a handful for sale at any one time. Hence the $1.2MM "camp". Kind of like the Bush "cottage" in Kennebunkport

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

However- at 1.2, it seems a bit pretentious for people to refer to it as a camp.

I think the new one qualifies as a "camp", right now any way . It is currently 3 season, not insulated (but does have heat pump from new mini split), on pillars and doesn't have a single closet. Hard to get my head around all that compared to what we had on Newfound. I'm a bit torn on how much to put into it down the line versus rebuild it. Especially where a lot was just put into it. I love working on home improvement projects. I think if we did rebuild we'd get our investment back (and our taxes would go up, ugh). And trust me, it wouldn't be anything crazy and has to stay within the current foot print. The foot print is a nice size considering how close it is to the water. Often small cabins near the water have tiny foot prints. We really do want to use it year round (especially if COVID gets bad this winter). If I kept it as is I'd have a real foundation put under it.

This was the old place we'd call our "cabin"

[Biggd]

Now I'm really Jealous!

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

I think the new one qualifies as a "camp", right now any way . It is currently 3 season, not insulated (but does have heat pump from new mini split), on pillars and doesn't have a single closet. Hard to get my head around all that compared to what we had on Newfound. I'm a bit torn on how much to put into it down the line versus rebuild it. Especially where a lot was just put into it. I love working on home improvement projects. I think if we did rebuild we'd get our investment back (and our taxes would go up, ugh). And trust me, it wouldn't be anything crazy and has to stay within the current foot print. The foot print is a nice size considering how close it is to the water. Often small cabins near the water have tiny foot prints. We really do want to use it year round (especially if COVID gets bad this winter). If I kept it as is I'd have a real foundation put under it.

This was the old place we'd call our "cabin"

They each have their own style! You may have left a great location, but you have found another on Squam- enjoy the improvement tasks!

[jeffatsquam]

Welcome to Squam, i've been following this thread but didn't think it would end up on Squam. I've been on the lake 60 years and have had a carpentry business for 35 If you need any assistance weather on the property or getting around on the lake feel free to pm me. Congratulations your future generations will appreciate you

[mswlogo]

BTW when I started this thread it was this island property we were torn over.

The place is absolutely gorgious. They spared no expense in building this place.

Cindy and Tim Melanson are listing agents and they are great too.

I'm kind of shocked it's not gone in this market. This house would be $3m on the mainland.

It is unusal for island properties to have a drilled well and this does. As well as huge "new" 2 bay boat house, 3 acres and 225 ft of frontage.

If my wife was in better health I think we might have gone for it.

Sellers are very reasonable too.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5...92830793_zpid/

[mswlogo]

The new property on Squam isn't likely to happen.

We just got the septic site assessment and it was a pretty harsh report I didn't expect.

The lot was small (1/3 of acre) but narrow long dimension being further away from the lake. With leach field at the furthest distance away (lot is 209 feet deep).

Septic was 3 Bedroom (450 gal/day) and "newish" installed 2002 or something under current "State Approved" guidelines, but house was on lake water at that time. So that was all good. They installed a brand new well within the last year or two. So I thought state approved, way back from water and brand new well, all good.

However, they put the well within the 75 foot radius of the leaching field, almost the whole leaching field is inside the 75 foot well radius (starting at 50 ft).

The site assessment down rated the septic to a 1-Bedroom. From 450 gallon/day down to 125 gallon/day (so as not to contaminate the well).

We wanted the option of possibly rebuilding. And it would have probably been 1.5 story (currently 1 story) 3 Bedroom (same as now) all within the same existing foot print. Which is 1416 sq feet, which would be very spacious by moving two bedrooms up.

There are tons of rules of where the well, septic tank, house, lake and leaching field can be. There was room to keep leaching field outside the 75ft but that would place it closer to the Septic Tank and house. The 75ft radius also encroaches on both neighbors land as well by quite a lot (50 ft on one, also small lots). I think the Septic Tank needs to be some higher grade in order for well to be closer to it. Still puzzles me why they put the well where they did (there might have been not better place than where they did).

They could have also sleeved the well to increase the effective distance of the well from the leach field. But they didn't. That can get very expensive though and that sleeve would have to be really deep I think (~60 ft I think).

Functionally I know it's probably fine. But getting approvals / waivers is a bit of a crap shoot. And if we ever needed to sell (for what ever reason) before any potential new work that *might* get past all this, it could severely limit resale.

Are we being stupid or smart walking away? We were paying over asking.

For the record, we've been through this Septic sh$t before. Our last home we got because the previous buyers backed out due to non state approved septic. The house only 7 years old, including septic when we bought it. But it was classified as 2 bedroom septic and not "State Approved". So if it failed you'd have to find another way, lot was narrow along the lake. The Well, House, Septic and Leech were all on close quarters. When we went to sell we had a buyer at near asking price all lined up. We got the site assessment and it labeled it as "2-Bedroom seasonal". Buyers ran so fast the door didn't hit them on the way out. Next buyers were fine with it, but also a little bit lower selling price. I think this is all partly why I trapped myself into confirming we HAD to sell it.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

The new property on Squam isn't likely to happen.

We just got the septic site assessment and it was a pretty harsh report I didn't expect.

The lot was small (1/3 of acre) but narrow long dimension being further away from the lake. With leach field at the furthest distance away (lot is 209 feet deep).

Septic was 3 Bedroom (450 gal/day) and "newish" installed 2002 or something under current "State Approved" guidelines, but house was on lake water at that time. So that was all good. They installed a brand new well within the last year or two. So I thought state approved, way back from water and brand new well, all good.

However, they put the well within the 75 foot radius of the leaching field, almost the whole leaching field is inside the 75 foot well radius (starting at 50 ft).

The site assessment down rated the septic to a 1-Bedroom. From 450 gallon/day down to 125 gallon/day (so as not to contaminate the well).

We wanted the option of possibly rebuilding. And it would have probably been 1.5 story (currently 1 story) 3 Bedroom (same as now) all within the same existing foot print. Which is 1416 sq feet, which would be very spacious by moving two bedrooms up.

There are tons of rules of where the well, septic tank, house, lake and leaching field can be. There was room to keep leaching field outside the 75ft but that would place it closer to the Septic Tank and house. The 75ft radius also encroaches on both neighbors land as well by quite a lot (50 ft on one, also small lots). I think the Septic Tank needs to be some higher grade in order for well to be closer to it. Still puzzles me why they put the well where they did (there might have been not better place than where they did).

They could have also sleeved the well to increase the effective distance of the well from the leach field. But they didn't. That can get very expensive though and that sleeve would have to be really deep I think (~60 ft I think).

Functionally I know it's probably fine. But getting approvals / waivers is a bit of a crap shoot. And if we ever needed to sell (for what ever reason) before any potential new work that *might* get past all this, it could severely limit resale.

Are we being stupid or smart walking away? We were paying over asking.

For the record, we've been through this Septic sh$t before. Our last home we got because the previous buyers backed out due to non state approved septic. The house only 7 years old, including septic when we bought it. But it was classified as 2 bedroom septic and not "State Approved". So if it failed you'd have to find another way, lot was narrow along the lake. The Well, House, Septic and Leech were all on close quarters. When we went to sell we had a buyer at near asking price all lined up. We got the site assessment and it labeled it as "2-Bedroom seasonal". Buyers ran so fast the door didn't hit them on the way out. Next buyers were fine with it, but also a little bit lower selling price. I think this is all partly why I trapped myself into confirming we HAD to sell it.

I would run away from that unless the owners were willing to drill a new well somewhere else on the property far enough away from the septic. I'm surprised they drilled the well that close to septic in the first place.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

The new property on Squam isn't likely to happen.

We just got the septic site assessment and it was a pretty harsh report I didn't expect.

The lot was small (1/3 of acre) but narrow long dimension being further away from the lake. With leach field at the furthest distance away (lot is 209 feet deep).

Septic was 3 Bedroom (450 gal/day) and "newish" installed 2002 or something under current "State Approved" guidelines, but house was on lake water at that time. So that was all good. They installed a brand new well within the last year or two. So I thought state approved, way back from water and brand new well, all good.

However, they put the well within the 75 foot radius of the leaching field, almost the whole leaching field is inside the 75 foot well radius (starting at 50 ft).

The site assessment down rated the septic to a 1-Bedroom. From 450 gallon/day down to 125 gallon/day (so as not to contaminate the well).

We wanted the option of possibly rebuilding. And it would have probably been 1.5 story (currently 1 story) 3 Bedroom (same as now) all within the same existing foot print. Which is 1416 sq feet, which would be very spacious by moving two bedrooms up.

There are tons of rules of where the well, septic tank, house, lake and leaching field can be. There was room to keep leaching field outside the 75ft but that would place it closer to the Septic Tank and house. The 75ft radius also encroaches on both neighbors land as well by quite a lot (50 ft on one, also small lots). I think the Septic Tank needs to be some higher grade in order for well to be closer to it. Still puzzles me why they put the well where they did (there might have been not better place than where they did).

They could have also sleeved the well to increase the effective distance of the well from the leach field. But they didn't. That can get very expensive though and that sleeve would have to be really deep I think (~60 ft I think).

Functionally I know it's probably fine. But getting approvals / waivers is a bit of a crap shoot. And if we ever needed to sell (for what ever reason) before any potential new work that *might* get past all this, it could severely limit resale.

Are we being stupid or smart walking away? We were paying over asking.

For the record, we've been through this Septic sh$t before. Our last home we got because the previous buyers backed out due to non state approved septic. The house only 7 years old, including septic when we bought it. But it was classified as 2 bedroom septic and not "State Approved". So if it failed you'd have to find another way, lot was narrow along the lake. The Well, House, Septic and Leech were all on close quarters. When we went to sell we had a buyer at near asking price all lined up. We got the site assessment and it labeled it as "2-Bedroom seasonal". Buyers ran so fast the door didn't hit them on the way out. Next buyers were fine with it, but also a little bit lower selling price. I think this is all partly why I trapped myself into confirming we HAD to sell it.

Yuck! Sorry to read that on multiple levels. I hope you find a great place soon.

We experienced exactly the same thing when we almost bought a place on Squam. Four bedrooms, including a guest cottage that was charming but falling down slowly, and a recent second floor addition to the main house. On inspection we discovered the lot dimensions were impossible for anything more than 2.5 bedrooms, and a clever ploy was the only thing that enabled them to add the second floor. So, just as in your case, a ticking time bomb of septic failure and/or responsibility, and also risk that rebuilding cottage would not be allowed.

Squam is a magnificent lake, but the price is often a fundamentally flawed house.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Yuck! Sorry to read that on multiple levels. I hope you find a great place soon.

We experienced exactly the same thing when we almost bought a place on Squam. Four bedrooms, including a guest cottage that was charming but falling down slowly, and a recent second floor addition to the main house. On inspection we discovered the lot dimensions were impossible for anything more than 2.5 bedrooms, and a clever ploy was the only thing that enabled them to add the second floor. So, just as in your case, a ticking time bomb of septic failure and/or responsibility, and also risk that rebuilding cottage would not be allowed.

Squam is a magnificent lake, but the price is often a fundamentally flawed house.

It turns out the new well was put in 100% conforming. They added a 40 foot sleeve which essentially reduces the required set back proportionally depending how deep the sleeve is. All town approved. I thought for sure the assessor didn’t know it was sleeved and would adjust the load capacity back up to the original septic design. They specifically call out the new well as the reason for reduced load capacity. But they would not adjust it. It’s just to much money to risk what some board will approve or not approve some day. Everything was done by the book. I feel bad for the seller. But there are enough uneducated buyers out there that it will probably sell for the same money quickly.

[ApS]

My lawyer/neighbor's new winterized three story place shares a septic system with a neighbor and had a shared dug well OK'd within 60 feet of the leachfield. Their "garage" became a huge bedroom within days of moving in.

What are you doing wrong?

[winterh]

I am a bit confused by this and have a situation that may be similar. A small (.40 acres) lot that currently gets water from lake. If I do a well it will have to be within 75 ft of my state approved 4 br septic. I was told it would not be an issue if they added a sleeve. Are you saying that although I may be able to put the well closer to the leach field than 75 ft I am in danger of losing my 4 br designation should I need to replace the septic?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

It turns out the new well was put in 100% conforming. They added a 40 foot sleeve which essentially reduces the required set back proportionally depending how deep the sleeve is. All town approved. I thought for sure the assessor didn’t know it was sleeved and would adjust the load capacity back up to the original septic design. They specifically call out the new well as the reason for reduced load capacity. But they would not adjust it. It’s just to much money to risk what some board will approve or not approve some day. Everything was done by the book. I feel bad for the seller. But there are enough uneducated buyers out there that it will probably sell for the same money quickly.

I hope you find something but at this point in the summer I would be patient. Maybe things will slow down when the cold weather hits and you won't have to compete with the summer shoppers.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by winterh

I am a bit confused by this and have a situation that may be similar. A small (.40 acres) lot that currently gets water from lake. If I do a well it will have to be within 75 ft of my state approved 4 br septic. I was told it would not be an issue if they added a sleeve. Are you saying that although I may be able to put the well closer to the leach field than 75 ft I am in danger of losing my 4 br designation should I need to replace the septic?

Please check what I write with a septic expert, this stuff is really arcane:

Your septic "is what it is"--if your lot is too small for a 4 BR septic, a diligent buyer will uncover your problem regardless of the system itself. This was the case for me--the system was sound, but the lot was too small for a 4 BR septic to be designated for 4 BR. The required lot size is subject to multiple constraints that are too complex for an amateur

So I would just go with the best septic and the best well that I could, without regard for designation.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Please check what I write with a septic expert, this stuff is really arcane:

Your septic "is what it is"--if your lot is too small for a 4 BR septic, a diligent buyer will uncover your problem regardless of the system itself. This was the case for me--the system was sound, but the lot was too small for a 4 BR septic to be designated for 4 BR. The required lot size is subject to multiple constraints that are too complex for an amateur

So I would just go with the best septic and the best well that I could, without regard for designation.

I have a 2br septic but I have 4br's in the house. It's only my wife and I unless we have family or friends up so the septic doesn't really get overly taxed. But when I go to sell it it has to be listed and valued as a 2 bedroom home, which I'm fine with.

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I have a 2br septic but I have 4br's in the house. It's only my wife and I unless we have family or friends up so the septic doesn't really get overly taxed. But when I go to sell it it has to be listed and valued as a 2 bedroom home, which I'm fine with.

About 7-8 years ago our septic crapped out (Ha Ha!)! During replacement (not cheap) we were told it was too small for the three bedroom house (35 years old- didn't someone mention somewhere about contractors cutting corners?). I don't expect we'll sell anytime soon, but I hear what you're saying.

OK- next size up!

Like others, it's just the two of us full-time. Reading other threads on this forum made us change from three year cleaning to five year cleaning.

I admit, waiting for Spring (the first five-year clean) started to make me a bit nervous.

Butt- All's well!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

About 7-8 years ago our septic crapped out (Ha Ha!)! During replacement (not cheap) we were told it was too small for the three bedroom house (35 years old- didn't someone mention somewhere about contractors cutting corners?). I don't expect we'll sell anytime soon, but I hear what you're saying.

OK- next size up!

Like others, it's just the two of us full-time. Reading other threads on this forum made us change from three year cleaning to five year cleaning.

I admit, waiting for Spring (the first five-year clean) started to make me a bit nervous.

Butt- All's well!

I just did mine a few years ago because I bought the place 6 years ago and there was no info on when it was last done. I bought it with no home inspection because I made an offer at a steep discount so I took the risk, a big risk.
The cleaning and inspection was fine but every 5 years is what I will do from here on in. My system is also 35 years old. If I ever decide to sell I will deal with the septic testing at that time but I've had no issues so far.
What I was told is it's not a bedroom unless it has a closet, not sure if that's legally true.
When I bought the place the room on the first floor was called an office because it had no closet. Then I finished the attic over the garage, into what I call a bunk room, which also has no closet.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by winterh

I am a bit confused by this and have a situation that may be similar. A small (.40 acres) lot that currently gets water from lake. If I do a well it will have to be within 75 ft of my state approved 4 br septic. I was told it would not be an issue if they added a sleeve. Are you saying that although I may be able to put the well closer to the leach field than 75 ft I am in danger of losing my 4 br designation should I need to replace the septic?

That’s exactly what happened. This is a similar size lot.

The wording is, that if your septic fails, the state *might* only grant a 2 bedroom rated septic. But chances are if it had a reasonable 3-4 bedroom septic they would allow replacing it.

As mentioned above, lots of waivers are granted. Like for like systems granted etc. all the time.

It all gets fuzzy too that you might even be allowed to (re)build a 3 bedroom with a 2 bedroom septic. Or just build a 2 bedroom with a den that has closets and a bathroom. And never have an issue.

My biggest concern is resale. Because it has this ugly comment of only 125 gal/day limit which equates to a 1 bedroom.

It makes no sense to me why the septic was rated down to 125 because a of a properly installed (town approved and sleeved) well. Well company basically said “you should be good, we do things right”. So your drill guy will say you are fine.

We might be overreacting on these technical labels.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Please check what I write with a septic expert, this stuff is really arcane:

Your septic "is what it is"--if your lot is too small for a 4 BR septic, a diligent buyer will uncover your problem regardless of the system itself. This was the case for me--the system was sound, but the lot was too small for a 4 BR septic to be designated for 4 BR. The required lot size is subject to multiple constraints that are too complex for an amateur

So I would just go with the best septic and the best well that I could, without regard for designation.

I totally agree with this.

Your lot size and how much it covered has a lot to do with the gallon / day rating. But the assessment specifically calls out the new well as being the reason why they rated it as 1/3 the capacity it was rated for.

I think what they might be doing is subtracting the area occupied by the well from the acreage to calculate how much septic flow the property can support. Regardless of where the well is legally located.

[mswlogo]

Independent of locations and set backs.

I’m curious how large a lot has to be to support:

A well (with entire 75ft radius) within property boundaries.
A home (say 40x40ft foot print)
A 2 car garage
A deck/screen porch
A driveway (maybe)
A walk way (maybe)
A 3-4 bedroom septic

I bet it comes to .75 acres or more.

Anything below 0.50 acres will probably need exceptions granted.

Even though not every square inch of a property can be used for some things I think it all still counts on total acreage. Maybe only any wetland might also be subtracted.

[winni83]

When we built on Winnipesaukee in 2012, we were able to construct a 2,600 finished square foot two story home with a full unfinished basement on a lot of .41 acres in size with a new well and a new three bedroom septic system with an attached 2 car garage, with decks, glassed and screen in porch, paved driveway and some walkways. Because we did not want a "Box", the footprint of house is irregular with lots of angles. No variances, exceptions or waivers, but our well 75 foot radius does extend onto the abutting property and we had to sign and have recorded an acknowledgement of that fact. Our engineer, architect, septic designer and well person were comfortable with the well radius issue. Given the topography of the abutting lot, it is unlikely in the extreme that the abutter could or would put a septic within that portion of the well radius extending onto that lot. I will say that it was a somewhat tight fit with the side setbacks, such that our engineer was out three times to measure and locate the foundation (excavation, footings and frost walls) so there were no surprises later on and then an as built. Well location came down to the practical issue of where the drilling rig could reasonably get to.

[tis]

You can build a pretty good sized house on a half acre. You might have to move the well etc. but it can be done as long as the soil supports a septic system. You need to get somebody who really knows what they are doing to figure it out for you. Unless it is grandfathered you have to be 50ft. from the lake and need to leave part of the land untouched. In any event it can be done, but bottom line is you need a good professional to get the most out of the lot.

At one point we bought a half acre lot that had an existing 4 bedroom septic. If we remodeled the (two) little houses we didn't need a new septic but we wanted to put a new septic in because it was old and by doing so we were reduced to 2. I'm not sure why but it wasn't a big deal to us. But I do know people who have 3 on a half acre.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by tis

You can build a pretty good sized house on a half acre. You might have to move the well etc. but it can be done as long as the soil supports a septic system. You need to get somebody who really knows what they are doing to figure it out for you. Unless it is grandfathered you have to be 50ft. from the lake and need to leave part of the land untouched. In any event it can be done, but bottom line is you need a good professional to get the most out of the lot.

At one point we bought a half acre lot that had an existing 4 bedroom septic. If we remodeled the (two) little houses we didn't need a new septic but we wanted to put a new septic in because it was old and by doing so we were reduced to 2. I'm not sure why but it wasn't a big deal to us. But I do know people who have 3 on a half acre.

The lot in question is only 0.36 Acres. And the abutters are similar size.

I’ve seen buyers run from septic assessment that wasn’t as bad.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

The new property on Squam isn't likely to happen. We just got the septic site assessment and it was a pretty harsh report I didn't expect.....However, they put the well within the 75 foot radius of the leaching field, almost the whole leaching field is inside the 75 foot well radius (starting at 50 ft)...Are we being stupid or smart walking away? We were paying over asking....For the record, we've been through this Septic sh$t before. Our last home we got because the previous buyers backed out due to non state approved septic. When we went to sell we had a buyer at near asking price all lined up. We got the site assessment and it labeled it as "2-Bedroom seasonal". Buyers ran so fast the door didn't hit them on the way out. Next buyers were fine with it, but also a little bit lower selling price. I think this is all partly why I trapped myself into confirming we HAD to sell it.

Destroy the well and go back to lake water?

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by ApS

Destroy the well and go back to lake water?

That doesn’t work well for 4 season use.
And that would severely lower its value to me or future owners.

Property was over $1.2m

Bottom line is that size lot is over constrained wether you have a well on it or not. You either compromise on using lake water or limited official septic capacity. I thought it was just enough that you wouldn’t need any special waivers or grants to make it what we want or future owners might want (staying within grand fathered footprints and capacities). But it’s more impaired than I thought for the money.

My guess is we could do what we wanted and everything would be granted. And it would hold its value and what we put into it. But if we decided to keep it as is use it for 5-10 years and then sell. It might not increase in value as much as a home without these constraints. And it’s not guaranteed we could do what we wanted either. It’s to risky.

We bought in 2003 for $685k and sold for $1.025m in 2020. It could never have a garage and has a similar constrained septic. I thought it was all due to setbacks from the water. Ours was a long strip along the water. But I’m learning it’s about acreage too. I didn’t realize a Well uses up acreage.

I don’t want to make that mistake again. I already know I’m probably buying at a peak (I’m ok with that). But I want to get something that will grow at a decent rate when the market does recover after the bubble bursts.

I don’t regret buying the place in 2003. Not trying to make a killing either. I just don’t want to be behind the curve again.

[tis]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

The lot in question is only 0.36 Acres. And the abutters are similar size.

I’ve seen buyers run from septic assessment that wasn’t as bad.

You know, I agree with you. Why go through the hassle and fights with the town and state? Just find something with a bigger lot. It's not like you have to buy that one.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

You know, I agree with you. Why go through the hassle and fights with the town and state? Just find something with a bigger lot. It's not like you have to buy that one.

Agreed. That's a lot of money to spend to jump through hoops AND take the risk.

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[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by ApS

Destroy the well and go back to lake water?

For about $1000 you can get a Pyrotenax 125' x 1 1/4" heated black poly cpvc water line, made in Ontario, with an internal heat wire, and thermostat control that runs on 220-volts and uses 1888-watts for heating the water line from the lake, all year 'round, including the winter months. You can tell when the inside of the line at the embankment is getting slushy with ice inside because the needle in the pressure guage, 30-50 psi, will get very shaky as it tries to draw water up through the slush clogged line so you know it's time to turn up the heat by a tiny turn.

It comes in a large cardboard box and the only item not included is the foot valve.

Installation is just inches below the surface of the ground and threading it through a 2" pvc pipe under the rocky embankment, so it's a do-it-yourself type of an install.

For a high quality, low priced, shallow well pump, 1/2-hp, 30-gal tank and pressure switch, go to www.harborfreight.com

Drawing water from a drilled well is no guarantee it will be quality drinking water, and you can get quality Laconia town water for 25-cents/gal from the machine at the Gilford Hannaford. Like, how much faucet water do you actually drink or use for cooking, anyway?

[Susie Cougar]

Yes, it seems like a money pit. I would run very fast from this one, especially at $1.2 million for a seasonal camp.

Something that I also find very curious is that you mention there is not even one closet in the entire house . It almost seems to me like they did it on purpose because of the septic issue.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by map

I have yet to meet anyone from NY in the Lakes Region. In fact I have only met like 2 603 born and raised. Everyone I have met since moving here from NY in February is from Massachusetts.

New York, NY...

“People are fleeing the city in droves,” says Moon Salahie, owner of Elite Moving & Storing in Yonkers, who has been working nonstop since the city began its reopening in June.
--New York Post

The folks nearest me* go (in west-to-east order) CT, NH, CT, CA, FL*, NY, VA, MA, NY...

An outlier--a few houses over--lives year-round on this desolate island (that isn't really an island).

Yesterday, via postcard, a realtor really-really-really wants to buy my place.

(Postmarked=Arizona).

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Yes, it seems like a money pit. I would run very fast from this one, especially at $1.2 million for a seasonal camp.

Something that I also find very curious is that you mention there is not even one closet in the entire house . It almost seems to me like they did it on purpose because of the septic issue.

Economics on Squam are skewed in a couple of ways. First, prices are dramatically higher than on Winni (I know, seems impossible). So I was not surprised at the $1.2MM camp. Second, even at those higher prices, there is almost never anything for sale. If you google squam real estate at any particular point in time, you're likely to see fewer than 5 for sale on the entire lake--one in the $1-2MM range, one in the $3-5MM range, one above that. So even if you can afford it, and you find a home in your price range, there is only one of them, so you are going to be living with a serious drawback or two.

When we were in the market 5-6 years ago, just for example--There was the house I described before with 2.5 beds of septic for $1.3MM, and there was a $1.7MM teardown on land that was good but not great.

[Biggd]

A camp just came on today in Meredith 1.25 acres 200 ft WF 965K.


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