Boat crash

[iw8surf]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Very sad and certainly not something you would expect on the lake this time of year with so little boat traffic.

My thoughts are the opposite on "this time of year with so little boat traffic"

I see this time of year as the time where people will stretch the rules because they know there is no one out and less marine patrol presence.

Don't have a spotter, eeh there's no marine patrol out its November, speed limit? Who's going to pull me over its November. 150' foot rule, there's no one home on that island they wont care its post season. It doesn't make any of it right but I feel people will naturally try to get away with what they can and pre and post season are perfect for those people....

Not saying breaking any rules had anything to do with this crash at all. I honestly have no idea what happened.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by iw8surf

My thoughts are the opposite on "this time of year with so little boat traffic"

I see this time of year as the time where people will stretch the rules because they know there is no one out and less marine patrol presence.

Don't have a spotter, eeh there's no marine patrol out its November, speed limit? Who's going to pull me over its November. 150' foot rule, there's no one home on that island they wont care its post season. It doesn't make any of it right but I feel people will naturally try to get away with what they can and pre and post season are perfect for those people....

Not saying breaking any rules had anything to do with this crash at all. I honestly have no idea what happened.

If Biggd was thinking similarly to me, he was thinking more about the numbers game. Statistically, there are close to zero boats to collide with.

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[MAXUM]

OR take it from somebody who is out there all 4 seasons....

When it comes to being out there this time of year at night it is DARK. Very DARK, the MP has already posted they pulled all the flashers, pretty much all island residents but a mere few are gone, therefore there is nothing to light up anything on a moonless night, especially if there is even the hint of a layer of fog out there. It can be very disorientating out there I know I have been there before. I can tell you unequivocally island residents don't screw around out there at least the ones that are there this time of year. This appears to be a very tragic and unfortunate accident and yes accidents do happen for whatever reason it doesn't always have to be due to carelessness. While I do not know the identities of all involved anyone who recognizes the boat that was initially pictured on the WMUR web site knows at least on party. This is extremely sad and for all of us who are island residents know the special friendships that are forged as a result because we all know and depend on one another.

My sincerest condolences and prayers go out to the families of those involved.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

OR take it from somebody who is out there all 4 seasons....

When it comes to being out there this time of year at night it is DARK. Very DARK, the MP has already posted they pulled all the flashers, pretty much all island residents but a mere few are gone, therefore there is nothing to light up anything on a moonless night, especially if there is even the hint of a layer of fog out there. It can be very disorientating out there I know I have been there before. I can tell you unequivocally island residents don't screw around out there at least the ones that are there this time of year. This appears to be a very tragic and unfortunate accident and yes accidents do happen for whatever reason it doesn't always have to be due to carelessness. While I do not know the identities of all involved anyone who recognizes the boat that was initially pictured on the WMUR web site knows at least on party. This is extremely sad and for all of us who are island residents know the special friendships that are forged as a result because we all know and depend on one another.

My sincerest condolences and prayers go out to the families of those involved.

Well said and so true. I’m on the island late and early in season. Everyone I know is more careful during these times.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by iw8surf

My thoughts are the opposite on "this time of year with so little boat traffic"

I see this time of year as the time where people will stretch the rules because they know there is no one out and less marine patrol presence.

Don't have a spotter, eeh there's no marine patrol out its November, speed limit? Who's going to pull me over its November. 150' foot rule, there's no one home on that island they wont care its post season. It doesn't make any of it right but I feel people will naturally try to get away with what they can and pre and post season are perfect for those people....

Not saying breaking any rules had anything to do with this crash at all. I honestly have no idea what happened.

One of the reports online (Union Leader) states that the boat that sank was a Penn Yan driven by a man in his 80's, hardly a speedy vessel.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by codeman671

One of the reports online (Union Leader) states that the boat that sank was a Penn Yan driven by a man in his 80's, hardly a speedy vessel.

The Penn Yan Swift and a Merc wasn't any slouch.

Just say'n…

Would gazing at GPS come into this?

[CaptT820]

I think we are all in agreement here, just in different ways. Statistically there are at least 95% less boats on the lake after November 1st compared with peak season between July 4th and Labor Day, so there is much less of a chance of an incident happening. At the same time as an Islander myself who pushes the season as far as possible, you absolutely make sure that all the factors are as much as possible in your favor early and late season. Call it careful, call it smart, call it aware or whatever you want. Islanders definitely do not screw around in the shoulder seasons when the water is cold and the days are short.

Im sure we'll eventually find out what happened here, but either way we lost two souls to a tragedy.

[ishoot308]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ed612a014.html

So sad.....

Dan

[Oblio13]

Here’s what I can piece together; if anyone has corrections or more information, please add them:

On Saturday evening, 9 Nov, Jim and Carmel Hanson were leaving Bear Island and heading for Shep Brown’s.

Hal Lyon had been muzzle-loader deer hunting on Meredith neck. He parked his car at Shep Brown’s and headed for Bear Island.

Around 6 p.m., just north of the “no wake” zone between Bear and Pine and closer to the latter, they collided. Both boaters knew that part of the lake very well. They were probably hugging Pine to cut the tip of the no-wake “triangle”.

Sunset was about 4:30. The moon was up in the east, three-quarters full. Passing clouds. 6 mph wind from south/southeast. Temp just below freezing.

Jim and Carmel’s Sea Ray bowrider stayed afloat. Carmel suffered head injuries but was able to call 911. They got her to Shep Browns and an ambulance took her to Lakes Region.

She never saw the other boat and thought that they had run aground.

It was clear from the damage to the Sea Ray, though, that there had been a collision with a second boat, and that the second boat was blue.

Hal’s car was at Shep Brown’s, but his old blue Penn Yan was not on his dock at Bear. He wasn’t answering his phone.

The Penn Yan was old enough to not have floatation, so the Marine Patrol figured it was on the bottom. A towed side scan sonar was brought in and located it in 48 feet of water just east of Pine Island (off that red double-bay boathouse). Divers found Hal still in it.

I think Jim and Hal were both killed instantly by trauma. Looks like Carmel will recover.

I’ve never met Carmel. I didn’t know Jim well. But I knew Hal well. He was a kind and educated man who loved the outdoors. I’m still waking up mornings and wondering if I just had a bad dream, but I’m going to miss him when it sinks in.

[Barney Bear]

The East Bear Island community lost two fine residents and friends Saturday evening. We visited Hal and Karin on Columbus Day to say good-bye. Sad that it is forever. 🐻

[map]

Prayers for the family. Just horrible.

[BroadHopper]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ed612a014.html

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

The Penn Yan Swift and a Merc wasn't any slouch.

Image removed

Just say'n…

Would gazing at GPS come into this?

APS, this post was in poor taste.....

[farechofisherman]

What a horrible event. My condolences to the families involved. What a terrible loss for the entire Winnipesaukee community. Hal Lyon is a legendary member of the Winnipesaukee family; an old school gentleman who always had time for a teaching story. A true "lake guy" with a ton of local knowledge, he will be missed! RIP. I am sure Mr. Hanson was from the same cloth, did not know him, and may he RIP also.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

What a Sad Tragedy.

As I was reading, Hal’s name sounded very familiar. He wrote a very special book, Angling in the Smile of the Great Spirit. He was a member here on The Forum.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the loved ones and friends of these two men lost.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

What a Sad Tragedy.

As I was reading, Hal’s name sounded very familiar. He wrote a very special book, Angling in the Smile of the Great Spirit. He was a member here on The Forum.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the loved ones and friends of these two men lost.

What were the usernames of the deceased?

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

What were the usernames of the deceased?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Hal's was halclyon...

Dan

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Hal's was halclyon...

Dan

Thanks, Dan. It appears his last post here, in 2016, was to you. Sorry for your loss. https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...d.php?p=270458

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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Thanks, Dan. It appears his last post here, in 2016, was to you. Sorry for your loss. https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...d.php?p=270458

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Hal had been working with a few of us dedicated lake Winni fishermen in getting our issue heard regarding the missing age classes of salmon in the lake. He was instrumental in setting up the initial meetings with the Laconia Daily Sun which got the issue noticed by the NHF&G. Hal had a good Journalism background and had connections in the community which helped us immensely...

Both Hal and Jim were members of the lakes "RFP" group (retired fishing partners) and were dedicated lake Winni anglers...

May they both rest peacefully...

Dan

[radioman]

Cal, sorry you were offended, was simply trying to report the facts. Now that you know the facts, I am sure you can appreciate my not iding anyone.RADIOMAN never plays games.
I knew all the folks involved, and I am upset and sad. Both will be very much missed. JOEY, thank you for sticking up for me

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by radioman

Cal, sorry you were offended, was simply trying to report the facts. Now that you know the facts, I am sure you can appreciate my not iding anyone.RADIOMAN never plays games.
I knew all the folks involved, and I am upset and sad. Both will be very much missed. JOEY, thank you for sticking up for me

Maybe I interpreted your words the wrong way. If so, I apologize as well. I thought that you were implying that it was going to be someone famous, or somewhat famous, and were treating it like a typical soap opera on a Friday afternoon!! You know, keep people guessing, in suspense... I thought you were implying it was going to be someone that everyone would know. You know, like a "household" name. Or some big local hot shot or something. Either way, I just thought it was inappropriate, I wasn't offended. However, I appreciate your maturity to take your medicine and apologize. I am impressed, and appreciate it. My condolences to the family and friends of these two men. May they RIP.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by radioman

Cal, sorry you were offended, was simply trying to report the facts. Now that you know the facts, I am sure you can appreciate my not iding anyone.RADIOMAN never plays games.

I knew all the folks involved, and I am upset and sad. Both will be very much missed. JOEY, thank you for sticking up for me

Anytime


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Judging from the comments on this forum, these two men are examples of “two lives well lived”, and how much they will be missed by so many whose lives they touched. It’s also a reminder that life is fragile and all too short. My condolences to their families and friends.

[Oblio13]

Originally Posted by ApS

The Penn Yan Swift and a Merc wasn't any slouch.

[IMG]*image removed*[/IMG]

Just say'n…

Would gazing at GPS come into this?

I can envision looking at GPS as being a factor, too, as they navigated near that tangle of markers between Bear and Pine. I certainly look at mine going through there, even in daylight.

It was dark, and the backgrounds of nearby islands were dark. It was cold, so they were likely huddled behind windshields. They each probably thought that they were the only boat on the lake. They were both probably referencing GPS overlays or apps.

Most accidents are not due to a single cause, but rather to a chain of events that could be interrupted at several points. Environmental factors, complacency, distractions, etc.

There are things to analyze and learn from this tragedy.

Great pic of a classic, BTW.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Oblio13

I can envision looking at GPS as being a factor, too, as they navigated near that tangle of markers between Bear and Pine. I certainly look at mine going through there, even in daylight.

It was dark, and the backgrounds of nearby islands were dark. It was cold, so they were likely huddled behind windshields. They each probably thought that they were the only boat on the lake. They were both probably referencing GPS overlays or apps.

Most accidents are not due to a single cause, but rather to a chain of events that could be interrupted at several points. Environmental factors, complacency, distractions, etc.

There are things to analyze and learn from this tragedy.

Great pic of a classic, BTW.

Those guys had been boating on the lake well before GPS even existed. They don't need one. Hell I don't need one, and I've only been out there for 8 years and driven through there hundreds if not a thousand times. That is not a difficult once you're used to it. Plus the Bear Island Post Office has a light on at the dock at night 24X7 year round that does a pretty good job of identifying where the gap is.

Everyone who has been there enough knows the only hazards to worry about in there is staying far enough away from the Pine Island and cutting out wide of the NW point of Bear. Those markers in the middle are for the mail boat and the mount. Shallowest point in there is maybe 8 foot deep.

[Woodsy]

A tragedy for both families and all the Bear Is. family. My condolences to you all.

This is a teaching moment.... no matter how well you know the lake, you must always be vigilant and keep a good lookout.

Woodsy

[radioman]

Max, GM and tnx for the post. We will never really know. Still cannot get this off my mind.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by radioman

Max, GM and tnx for the post. We will never really know. Still cannot get this off my mind.

No we won't. However I also look at it this way, these guys enjoyed a full life, a wonderful friendship and were the kind of gentlemen we all should aspire to be. That's a damn good legacy to leave behind.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Those guys had been boating on the lake well before GPS even existed. They don't need one. Hell I don't need one, and I've only been out there for 8 years and driven through there hundreds if not a thousand times. That is not a difficult once you're used to it. Plus the Bear Island Post Office has a light on at the dock at night 24X7 year round that does a pretty good job of identifying where the gap is.

Everyone who has been there enough knows the only hazards to worry about in there is staying far enough away from the Pine Island and cutting out wide of the NW point of Bear. Those markers in the middle are for the mail boat and the mount. Shallowest point in there is maybe 8 foot deep.

GPS is no substitute for experience that is for sure. While I am planning on adding a GPS unit to my boat next year, it will also provide sonar, speed..... and I am doing it not because I feel I need it. But I am getting more adventurous at night. And going places that I don't often visit at night... and well the night vision isn't what it used to be..... When I am in the parts of the lake that I know well.... there is never a problem.....These two men where in an area of the lake they new well....GPS wouldn't have done anything in this case.... I will not even speculate what happened, other then to say it is a sad day, for the lake community.....

[Oblio13]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Those guys had been boating on the lake well before GPS even existed...

Me too. And yet I find them extremely useful, especially at night. At the very least, they've saved me from buying a couple props.

Once upon a time, I was a fighter pilot with visual acuity and night vision so good that people used to think I was doing magic tricks or something. Now I'm in my sixties, and I need glasses and feel like Mr. Magoo at night. Jim was in his seventies. Hal was in his eighties. They were both hunkered down on a below-freezing night behind possibly fogged windshields and fogged glasses. It's very plausible to me that they would cross-reference a GPS or a nav app on a phone.

Originally Posted by MAXUM

... Everyone who has been there enough knows the only hazards to worry about in there is staying far enough away from the Pine Island ...

Hal's boat sank close to Pine Island. It seems likely to me that he had hugged those red-tops south of Pine in order to minimize time in the no-wake zone, and that Jim was planning to do the same. The short-cut funneled them right into each other.

[rick35]

I’ve never boated this late in the season but when I’m out at night I always pull the canvas back so I have a clear view around me. And that’s even if it’s pouring. It’s just too confusing with glare on the windows. I even installed dash light dimmers so I don’t get glare from the gauges.

[ishoot308]

This is complete hearsay so take it for what it's worth...I heard that Hal's boat had been experiencing issues and MAY have broken down and been without power. No power = no nav lights and Jim may not have seen him.

To me this does make the most sense but as I said earlier this is all nothing but complete useless hearsay...and at this point what difference does it make...

Dan

[iw8surf]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

This is complete hearsay so take it for what it's worth...I heard that Hal's boat had been experiencing issues and MAY have broken down and been without power. No power = no nav lights and Jim may not have seen him.

To me this does make the most sense but as I said earlier this is all nothing but complete useless hearsay...and at this point what difference does it make...

Dan

For these individuals you are right it wont make a difference but finding out what truly happened if possible may help others avoid situations like this in the future by learning from it. Or at least help those affected get closure.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by iw8surf

For these individuals you are right it wont make a difference but finding out what truly happened if possible may help others avoid situations like this in the future by learning from it. Or at least help those affected get closure.

The authorities will most certainly want to know the cause as possible criminal consequences could flow from the event (unlikely, if as it seems both of the operators perished in the accident), and of course there will always be lawyers waiting to pounce on the at fault party or his/her estate.

[Descant]

I don't know the families, but I still feel some difficulty expressing myself over this tragic event. My condolences to the families.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by iw8surf

For these individuals you are right it wont make a difference but finding out what truly happened if possible may help others avoid situations like this in the future by learning from it. Or at least help those affected get closure.

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, by the time investigators piece things together, and find the cause of this, and other tragedies, the media has moved on, and what could be a teachable moment for other's goes by the wayside... Such a waste. Very frustrating. I guess the teachable moments don't get the same "ratings" as the actual tragedy when it happens. Gotta have priorities...

[dickiej]

George Carlin used to say the media isn't happy unless there is a hospital on fire and people are jumping off the roof.

[garysanfran]

Don't know if it has been addressed, but the very rapid assessment and finding of the second craft, I finding rewarding of very trained skills.

Thanks NHMP..

[Taz]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

This is complete hearsay so take it for what it's worth...I heard that Hal's boat had been experiencing issues and MAY have broken down and been without power. No power = no nav lights and Jim may not have seen him.

To me this does make the most sense but as I said earlier this is all nothing but complete useless hearsay...and at this point what difference does it make...

Dan

Years ago I was in Wolfboro bay with my wife after dark. It was very dark out. We heard some one call out but could not see anything from where the voice was coming from. We slowly continued to move and finally discovered a small 20 bowrider with a husband and wife aboard. They had no power and no lights would work. The did not have a flashlight either (that would be key) We towed them back to the town docks and they were very appreciative. He was a doctor but not sure where. Thank god we were not going faster or up on plane. This was not too far from where you would slow down to approach the docks. I will try to remember to always have a flashlight with good batteries.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Taz

Years ago I was in Wolfboro bay with my wife after dark. It was very dark out. We heard some one call out but could not see anything from where the voice was coming from. We slowly continued to move and finally discovered a small 20 bowrider with a husband and wife aboard. They had no power and no lights would work. The did not have a flashlight either (that would be key) We towed them back to the town docks and they were very appreciative. He was a doctor but not sure where. Thank god we were not going faster or up on plane. This was not too far from where you would slow down to approach the docks. I will try to remember to always have a flashlight with good batteries.

Yes a flashlight is a must at minimal...besides a flashlight I also carry a clip on set of battery nav lights similar to this... https://smile.amazon.com/Bright-Eyes...3747849&sr=8-9

I also have a suction mount battery white stern light.

I have had them for a few years and luckily so far I have not had to use them. I change the batteries every spring...

Dan

[steve c]

http://www.bearcam1.com/
Marine Patrol on the cam. looks like they are running a search grid

[steve c]

looks like a search grid

[Phantom]

I thought the tragic accident occurred across from the Post Office …. not in the line of sight of Bear Cam ……… which looks in the general direction of FL#4 & FL#61

Am I mistaken ?

[steve c]

They were on that spot for almost an hour. I thought they might have had divers in the water but it was hard to tell for sure

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I thought the tragic accident occurred across from the Post Office …. not in the line of sight of Bear Cam ……… which looks in the general direction of FL#4 & FL#61

Am I mistaken ?

Captain Dunleavy told me the accident was right in from of my cabin. He wanted to know if I saved images from the BearCam. I told him I do not.

Reports have claimed the accident was just north of the mail dock. Once again, that is the area viewed on the BearCam.

If anyone is interested there are more views of the area available from my other cameras at www.bearfeed.com

[Pine Island Guy]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I thought the tragic accident occurred across from the Post Office …. not in the line of sight of Bear Cam ……… which looks in the general direction of FL#4 & FL#61

Am I mistaken ?

According to the report, Hal's boat was found in 48' of water out in front of the red double boathouse on Pine Island, just north of FL4, which might explain why the MP was out that direction today. It must have been a fairly strong breeze from the south for his boat to drift that far before sinking.

The last time I saw Hal was 10 or so years ago when I went to his house on East Bear to pick up my parents who had attended his wedding that day...

It is all so very very sad and the world has lost two gentlemen that touched so many lives in such positive ways...

Be careful out there -PIG

[Janet]

Originally Posted by steve c

http://www.bearcam1.com/
Marine Patrol on the cam. looks like they are running a search grid

The Bear Cam shows Marine Patrol out again this morning running a search grid. A reminder of a tragic accident.

[Barney Bear]

At 5:00, WMUR had a piece on the recovery of Hal Lyon's boat today just off the north end of Bear Island. The boat is totally destroyed. We miss Hal and Jim. 🐻

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Taz

Years ago I was in Wolfboro bay with my wife after dark. It was very dark out. We heard some one call out but could not see anything from where the voice was coming from. We slowly continued to move and finally discovered a small 20 bowrider with a husband and wife aboard. They had no power and no lights would work. The did not have a flashlight either (that would be key) We towed them back to the town docks and they were very appreciative. He was a doctor but not sure where. Thank god we were not going faster or up on plane. This was not too far from where you would slow down to approach the docks. I will try to remember to always have a flashlight with good batteries.

The best boating at night is on someone else's boat!! Personally, I fail to see the joy of boating at night, unless there is a really bright full moon, and even then not my favorite thing to do. Why go boating in pitch black darkness? I think you are just asking for trouble. Besides,I hate when the vinyl seats get wet with moisture/condensation when the sun goes down, you have the possibility of floating debris, and God knows what else... Not my idea of "fun". Would you drive your car in pitch black darkness with no headlights on...??? Whats the difference? No thanks. To each his own...