Wright Museum, Wolfeboro

[Hillcountry]

A wonderful, New Hampshire historical museum chooses to go through with a gun ban and destruction of history. I know its a private business but if you feel like this decision is wrong, make your voice heard. I have been to the museum but if this actually, does happen, I will not go there again. I can't believe this is happening in NH.

https://www.northeastshooters.com/xe...-items.374389/

[thinkxingu]

From what I can read here, the guns will be "deactivated." How does that destroy them?

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[coltgov101]

Touchy subject for many but extremely important for all
This is how inroads to our second amendment rights begin. I am one who vigorously defend our constitutional rights. It will be interesting to see if my post is printed in a timely manner or even printed at all.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

From what I can read here, the guns will be "deactivated." How does that destroy them?

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“Destruction by means of deactivation”

In my humble opinion, they may as well be crowbars on display than working relics of United States history whereby thousands of men and women died while defending this great country with these weapons, but I digress.
If I need to explain, you'll never understand.

[joey2665]

More people trying to distort and change the history of our great nation.

[The Real BigGuy]

You have no constitutional right to carry firearms on private property. Plain and simple.


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[Chimi]

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newhampshire.pdf

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

“Destruction by means of deactivation”

In my humble opinion, they may as well be crowbars on display than working relics of United States history whereby thousands of men and women died while defending this great country with these weapons, but I digress.
If I need to explain, you'll never understand.

I don't know that I've ever been to a museum at which the weapons weren't rendered inoperable, and I've just always assumed that all were somehow incapacitated as part of safety/insurance regulations.

I do see a difference between museum relics, that people may handle/have access to, and reenactment gear. Being unable to reenact with blanks is pretty lame--what're they gonna do, yell "BANG!!! I JUST SHOT YOU!!!"

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

From what I can read here, the guns will be "deactivated." How does that destroy them?

In Government terms, that means welding the actions closed, to never fire again. BATFE (or ATF, BATF) uses the term, "cannot be readily converted". Not surprisingly, Google doesn't recognize the Government's own term "dewat", which means to deactivate the weapon, although I did manage to coax one reference out (and quoted below).

So, all the Wright Museum has to do, is spread their carbon footprint by welding the guns shut, put the guns on display and hope that someone doesn't steal them to retrofit with other guns' parts and bring them to a gun fight.

Had I been a Wright Museum's board member, I'd be afraid of losing much value in the museum's endowment. Their weapons' value in a trade with other museums (or closure) would lose a lot of value.

A Class III dealer tells of a similar situation.

Lastly, I had an experience with getting a gun from a Museum out of California. We arranged a trade. It is nearly impossible to import guns into California. This museum turned out to NOT be a government sponsored entity and therefore couldn't accept the weapon. The gun they received was nearly confiscated and destroyed. After reasoning, pleading, and then begging with ATF, they refused and were going to collect it. In desperation, I made a direct plea to the director of BATFE (now under the US Department of Justice) and was given an exception for the museum to accept the gun. Man, I was sweating it! So it is possible for ATF to be reasonable, but it is easier to simply follow the laws.
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...t=24161&page=4

Also try www.wwiiguns.com.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

You have no constitutional right to carry firearms on private property. Plain and simple.


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My constitutional right to carry includes “on private property” unless otherwise specified by owner of property. Plain and simple.

[The Real BigGuy]

So basically the Wright has just said you can’t carry on my property. Why does one need to carry at the museum anyway?


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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

So basically the Wright has just said you can’t carry on my property. Why does one need to carry at the museum anyway?


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That’s correct. My main problem with this is the destruction of the weaponry.
Sir, when you carry, you carry. A law abiding, carrying citizen will avoid places of business where it is prohibited.
There is no “need” to carry anywhere. There is, however, a right to be able to protect and defend one’s family and person against a non law-abiding threat to life and limb.

[The Real BigGuy]

Just because you can doesn’t mean you must. Goes for a lot of things in life.


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[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Just because you can doesn’t mean you must. Goes for a lot of things in life.


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You fail to understand the constitutional rights of law abiding American citizens.
Unaware, innocent people being harmed or killed by some nutbag on a whim is high on my list of being prepared for in life in this day and age. Carrying concealed is the ONE thing in life I must do and I will never fail to do so. You and many others just don’t “get it”

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

You fail to understand the constitutional rights of law abiding American citizens.
Unaware, innocent people being harmed or killed by some nutbag on a whim is high on my list of being prepared for in life in this day and age. Carrying concealed is the ONE thing in life I must do and I will never fail to do so. You and many others just don’t “get it”

The "ONE thing in life"?

Not questioning your rights, but, just in terms of the statistics, I can think of a whole bunch of things that are more important to my safety in Wolfeboro--wearing a seatbelt, looking before I cross the street, not eating hamburgers and ice cream every night...

[The Real BigGuy]

Just what we need, armed vigilantes. If you really believe you are at risk walking around Wolfeboro and live your life armed for the “nutbag” you probably will never see, I’m sorry for you. There was a study done in the last couple of years that showed trained police officers hit their intended target a small percentage of the time from 20 ft. People forget that shooting at an armed bad guy isn’t like shooting targets at the range.


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[coltgov101]

I for one am glad there are armed citizens out there ready to protect me and mine if the occasion arises. There is an old saying, an armed society is a polite society.

[Hillcountry]

I’ll be ready where and when...will you?

[Chimi]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Just what we need, armed vigilantes. If you really believe you are at risk walking around Wolfeboro and live your life armed for the “nutbag” you probably will never see, I’m sorry for you. There was a study done in the last couple of years that showed trained police officers hit their intended target a small percentage of the time from 20 ft. People forget that shooting at an armed bad guy isn’t like shooting targets at the range.


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I’m sure all those people at yesterday’s garlic festival in Gilroy, California felt exactly the same way. Would never happen here. On the contrary.......

[Hillcountry]

“Gun free zone,” most restrictive gun laws in the USA, heavy security, perp cut through a fence to get in. Like leading sheeple to the slaughter...can’t happen here...BS

[Chimi]

Two more horrible shootings yesterday. One inside a mall where people thought that they were safe, and never in a million years thought that anything like this would happen on that day and time.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

So basically the Wright has just said you can’t carry on my property. Why does one need to carry at the museum anyway?

Because you never know where the next insane person will show up with a weapon--and a manifesto?

[KayakinKid]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Just what we need, armed vigilantes. If you really believe you are at risk walking around Wolfeboro and live your life armed for the “nutbag” you probably will never see, I’m sorry for you. There was a study done in the last couple of years that showed trained police officers hit their intended target a small percentage of the time from 20 ft. People forget that shooting at an armed bad guy isn’t like shooting targets at the range.


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Vigilante is a rather strong word. Most who carry a firearm do so simply to protect themselves and their loved ones in case violence should visit them, not to hand out justice.

Do you wear a seat belt? Do you have fire extinguishers handy? Why do you have those things, are you planning on having something bad happen? Of course not. But you are prepared, in case something does. Same idea with most people who carry a firearm.

As far as the study you mentioned, much will depend on the police officer. For many, the firearm is simply another tool on their belt, one that is rarely shot except for annual qualifications. For others, it is both a hobby, and a constant companion. I've met and watched some of the instructors at the Sig Sauer Academy who are law enforcement, and I know that I would not want to be on the receiving end of their aimed fire. Accurate shooting is a perishable skill that requires practice. From the moment the grip of the handgun is grabbed, to the draw, to sight alignment, to the squeeze of the trigger. Unfortunately, many departments can't afford the costs required to keep their officers proficient in firearms use. A normal range trip for me involves 300-400 rounds. Let's say 200 rounds, then multiply that by however many officers in a department, say a range day every 3 months, and the costs add up quickly.

In the aftermath of a violent act, you often hear people say, "I never thought it would happen here". Criminals don't make appointments, they don't respect boundaries, and they certainly don't give a hoot about "No Guns Allowed" signs. Wolfeboro is no more safe from a nutbag than any other small town in America. Is it likely to happen? No. But it could.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by KayakinKid

Vigilante is a rather strong word. Most who carry a firearm do so simply to protect themselves and their loved ones in case violence should visit them, not to hand out justice.

Do you wear a seat belt? Do you have fire extinguishers handy? Why do you have those things, are you planning on having something bad happen? Of course not. But you are prepared, in case something does. Same idea with most people who carry a firearm.

As far as the study you mentioned, much will depend on the police officer. For many, the firearm is simply another tool on their belt, one that is rarely shot except for annual qualifications. For others, it is both a hobby, and a constant companion. I've met and watched some of the instructors at the Sig Sauer Academy who are law enforcement, and I know that I would not want to be on the receiving end of their aimed fire. Accurate shooting is a perishable skill that requires practice. From the moment the grip of the handgun is grabbed, to the draw, to sight alignment, to the squeeze of the trigger. Unfortunately, many departments can't afford the costs required to keep their officers proficient in firearms use. A normal range trip for me involves 300-400 rounds. Let's say 200 rounds, then multiply that by however many officers in a department, say a range day every 3 months, and the costs add up quickly.

In the aftermath of a violent act, you often hear people say, "I never thought it would happen here". Criminals don't make appointments, they don't respect boundaries, and they certainly don't give a hoot about "No Guns Allowed" signs. Wolfeboro is no more safe from a nutbag than any other small town in America. Is it likely to happen? No. But it could.

Well said!

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by Chimi

Two more horrible shootings yesterday. One inside a mall where people thought that they were safe, and never in a million years thought that anything like this would happen on that day and time.

anyone who thinks they are safe in a mall because of the "no guns allowed" signs is delusional.

[thinkxingu]

I'd be interested to know how many of those people in the Texas (open carry) Walmart were armed and how that correlates to the, "only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun" narrative.

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[eyvoom]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

I’ll be ready where and when...will you?

Not meant to go either way in this discussion, but you know that he doesn't have a gun in that scene right? He pretends to pull a gun and gets shot in the process (which was his intent).

[KayakinKid]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I'd be interested to know how many of those people in the Texas (open carry) Walmart were armed and how that correlates to the, "only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun" narrative.

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Maybe no one, if that Walmart posted 30.06 and 30.07 signs that prohibit carrying in a business. Depending on how crowded the store was, someone who was armed might not have had a safe shot to take at the suspect, without fear of injuring or killing someone behind their intended target. Or there was no way to take a safe shot because of people running every which way between the armed citizen and the shooter. Way too many variables to consider.

Not too long ago, there was an armed person who tried to take out a bad guy in a store. Unbeknownst to that person, there was a second shooter, who shot and killed the armed good guy. That incident drove home the fact that you can't get tunnel vision in a shooting situation, and you have to keep your head on a swivel.

[The Real BigGuy]

Don’t think you will find 30.06 and/or 30.07 signs in Walmart’s in Texas or most of the SWs open carry/concealed carry states. I had a place in AZ (an open carry state) and people were carrying everywhere, Walmart, church, golf course, walking thru town, etc. I’m betting there were a lot of people carrying in the El Paso Walmart and it did no good. If carrying makes you feel better, safer, stronger, tougher, go for it. However, chances are you are not going to provide protection to anyone. You probably end up making yourself more of a target.


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[eyvoom]

Originally Posted by ApS

In Government terms, that means welding the actions closed, to never fire again. BATFE (or ATF, BATF) uses the term, "cannot be readily converted". Not surprisingly, Google doesn't recognize the Government's own term "dewat", which means to deactivate the weapon, although I did manage to coax one reference out (and quoted below).

So, all the Wright Museum has to do, is spread their carbon footprint by welding the guns shut, put the guns on display and hope that someone doesn't steal them to retrofit with other guns' parts and bring them to a gun fight.

Had I been a Wright Museum's board member, I'd be afraid of losing much value in the museum's endowment. Their weapons' value in a trade with other museums (or closure) would lose a lot of value.

A Class III dealer tells of a similar situation.


Also try www.wwiiguns.com.

Just read through the museum's post about all of this. No welding, just pulling of the firing pins. No concern about devaluing their collection.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by eyvoom

Not meant to go either way in this discussion, but you know that he doesn't have a gun in that scene right? He pretends to pull a gun and gets shot in the process (which was his intent).

I did know that. However, I'm not sure that is the scene where he gets shot himself...I believe Clint uses that posture several times during the movie.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I'd be interested to know how many of those people in the Texas (open carry) Walmart were armed and how that correlates to the, "only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun" narrative.

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POLICE are "good guys with guns" in case you didn't know.

These types of tragedies play out in so many different ways, no one can predict how anyone, including yourself, will act.
In a store with 3000 people running panic stricken every which way or a school where innocents are slaughtered like cattle. A cop's duty is to advance toward the threat to try and stop it. A civilian that carries would most likely shelter himself, his loved ones and anyone that would listen to him and let a threat approach as in a defensive posture. If the threat makes itself visible and a defensive action is possible, then he/she might be able to stop it.
My thoughts are to protect first and act further if possible.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Don’t think you will find 30.06 and/or 30.07 signs in Walmart’s in Texas or most of the SWs open carry/concealed carry states. I had a place in AZ (an open carry state) and people were carrying everywhere, Walmart, church, golf course, walking thru town, etc. I’m betting there were a lot of people carrying in the El Paso Walmart and it did no good. If carrying makes you feel better, safer, stronger, tougher, go for it. However, chances are you are not going to provide protection to anyone. You probably end up making yourself more of a target.


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You are making some huge, assumptions there...

[Wifi-1]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

POLICE are "good guys with guns" in case you didn't know.....

Yup, sure


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqBAOX6Qegk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mezvCg0A5c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bF7i2_ok4


Painting with a large brush....

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Wifi-1

Yup, sure


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqBAOX6Qegk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ooa7wOKHhg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mezvCg0A5c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bF7i2_ok4


Painting with a large brush....

Okay...a handful of loose cannons compared to millions that put their lives on the line every day for you and I. Talk about painting a “broad brush”
Thank God for our men in BLUE!

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Just what we need, armed vigilantes. If you really believe you are at risk walking around Wolfeboro and live your life armed for the “nutbag” you probably will never see, I’m sorry for you. There was a study done in the last couple of years that showed trained police officers hit their intended target a small percentage of the time from 20 ft. People forget that shooting at an armed bad guy isn’t like shooting targets at the range.


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If you knew how little a lot of officers actually shot their weapons you would understand the misses. Always shocked at how many only shoot to qualify as needed.

[Wifi-1]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Okay...a handful of loose cannons compared to millions that put their lives on the line every day for you and I. Talk about painting a “broad brush”
Thank God for our men in BLUE!

Agreed, just pointing out there isn't a class of exclusive supermen. I do appreciate proper Law Enforcement.

[The Real BigGuy]

I think we all respect the men in blue. Some of us are just a little worried about untrained people running around armed thinking they are the public’s “defenders.” (I saw an older couple in the Cottonwood, AZ Walmart - the gentleman had a pearl handled Colt holstered on each hip and his wife had one in a shoulder holster over her blouse.). I often wonder how many of these people turn into the “really nice, quiet guy” next door who goes nuts in a church, school, or Walmart? Another question, why is violent crime so much lower in countries like England & Australia where people can’t own handguns?


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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Another question, why is violent crime so much lower in countries like England & Australia where people can’t own handguns?


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Not true! Have you ever been to England? Home invasions are a big issue because burglars know the homeowner is unprotected. Been there, seen that!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tas-study.html

Dan

[The Real BigGuy]

That’s why in the United Kingdom there are 0.23 gun related deaths per 100,000 population per year and in the Untied States there are 12.21 per 100,000.


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[Wifi-1]

HHHmmmm....

====
UK knife violence? Vs US firearm violence?
I keep reading so much about how safe the UK is from a couple people on here, yet the crime statistics say differently. I really don't care how high the stabbing rate is in the UK, why should they care how high our firearm related death rate is? Here are a couple statistics that I found. Feel free to post more.

US
Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)

That equals 28,800 gun related deaths to our 301,139,947 people as of (July 2007 est.)

UK
LONDON (Reuters) - Official figures released on Thursday revealed there were more than 22,000 serious offences in England and Wales involving knives in 2007-8.

So 22,000 knife related deaths to 60,776,238 (July 2007 est.)

Seems that we have a much lower firearm related death rate than the UK does knife related deaths. This thread was not opened to start a battle between the US people and UK people, I just want to hear a calm discussion about the subject and I'm tired of hearing people in the UK bash Americans and our guns.
====

https://rc.runryder.com/t471261p1/

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

That’s why in the United Kingdom there are 0.23 gun related deaths per 100,000 population per year and in the Untied States there are 12.21 per 100,000.


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So if someone breaks in your home and stabs you or hits you over the head with a baseball bat that is not considered "violent crime" as your first post stated? Only crimes with a gun are violent now??

The FACT is there are way more home invasions per capita in England than there are here. Why?

Also you should clarify your statistics...gun related deaths are not always violent crime or murder related as you try to allude to... Accidental discharges, hunting accidents, suicide, etc, etc, are all part of this figure you quoted.

Since firearms and their legal and constitutional use for either hunting, competition or simply plinking at a local firing range is way more prevalent here in the states than in England, I would certainly expect more deaths from their use. This simply falls under the law of averages. Your analogy is like comparing snowmobile deaths in Florida as compared to Alaska!

So I ask again...Why are there more home invasions in England than the US??......

People do not need guns to be violent....

Dan

[The Real BigGuy]

There were 252 knife killings in England between March 2017 & March 2018. “Serious offenses” does not equal killings.

40,000 gun deaths in US in 2018.


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[Orion]

Data shows that nearly 2/3 of gun deaths in the US are suicides. Of the remaining 1/3, many of those are defensive and/or police actions. So for anyone trying to sell 40,000 gun deaths as the key number that would be avoided if nobody had guns, we need to be a bit more honest.

[The Real BigGuy]

OK, you want to play that game? Only 4.46 out of the 12.21 per 100,000 were murders. About 36.5%. So of the 40,000 gun deaths in 2018 only 14,500 were murders. Is that a good “key number for you and that makes gun suicides OK? We only trail such civilized countries as El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, etc. We don’t lead the world in gun murders, just in gun deaths.

More Americans have been killed by guns in the US in the last 50 years then have been killed in ALL the wars we have fought. Think on that statistic for a moment and tell me that something isn’t wrong with our gun laws.


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[Orion]

The point was that if the suicides didn't have a gun, those deaths would likely have been done by some other means.

But we've gone way off topic.