Moultonborough town meeting

[bigpatsfan]

Not supporting SB2 does not mean wanting less people to vote.

It really means having informed people vote.

SB2 diminishes the value and power of the deliberative session.

Voters that go to the deliberative session hear the pros and cons regarding the articles up for vote. At the deliberative session they have the ability to make changes to whatever is being voted on. SB2 limits what can be changed at the deliberative session.

To me it keeps the power in the hands of the involved and hopefully informed voters. Instead of having someone just voting yes or no on an article without fully understanding the impact of their vote.

[tis]

Originally Posted by bigpatsfan

Not supporting SB2 does not mean wanting less people to vote.

It really means having informed people vote.

SB2 diminishes the value and power of the deliberative session.

Voters that go to the deliberative session hear the pros and cons regarding the articles up for vote. At the deliberative session they have the ability to make changes to whatever is being voted on. SB2 limits what can be changed at the deliberative session.

To me it keeps the power in the hands of the involved and hopefully informed voters. Instead of having someone just voting yes or no on an article without fully understanding the impact of their vote.

Not quite following you. SB2 diminishes the value and power of the deliberative session? How? SB2 limits what can be changed at the deliberative session? How? If you are an SB2 town, you have a deliberative session at which people that attend (usually very few) can amend any of the articles being voted on. Then on voting day, the public votes on what was finalized at the deliberative session. So I can't understand what you are trying to say.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by tis

Not quite following you. SB2 diminishes the value and power of the deliberative session? How? SB2 limits what can be changed at the deliberative session? How? If you are an SB2 town, you have a deliberative session at which people that attend (usually very few) can amend any of the articles being voted on. Then on voting day, the public votes on what was finalized at the deliberative session. So I can't understand what you are trying to say.

Thanks tis, well said.
It just proves that some people like to complain about something they don't know anything about. I won't mention his name but it begins with "bigpatsfan".

[jeffk]

I would also point out that, while "being informed" sounds good, it is my right as a voter, if I don't want a community center no way no how, to vote against it without further ado. I doubt that many people attending the meeting have their minds changed about agenda driven topics.

Unfortunately, elected officials and groups with an agenda have well learned how to spin things to get what they want. It's like your kid explaining to you why they NEED a car. There's always a "good" reason. Arguments against it mysteriously never appear or are "reasonably" rebuked. And, like with your kid, "NO!" is interpreted as "not now" and invites retrying until you are worn down.

[C-Bass]

What does SB-12 or SB 12 towns refer too?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

What does SB-12 or SB 12 towns refer too?

Some years ago a bill was filed in the legislature as Senate Bill 2, SB 2, which in the simplest of forms allowed towns to change the manner of voting on the annual Town business meeting from Town Hall meeting where attendees debated articles and voted on them in person to a ballot on the articles at the same time as the election of officials. The finalization of articles takes place at deliberative sessions about a month before the town elections.

The idea is to have more citizens take part in the decisions of town annual business. Communities who use this manner of elections are called SB2 towns.

Dave

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

What does SB-12 or SB 12 towns refer too?

It's SB2 and not SB12.

"RSA 40:13, Senate Bill 2, also known as SB2, (Official Ballot Referenda) is a form of town meeting that has two sessions. The first session (deliberative session) is for explanation, discussion, debate and amendments to the proposed operating budget and warrant articles. The second session (voting session) allows voters to cast an official ballot to pass/fail proposed articles."

https://www.revenue.nh.gov/mun-prop/...assistance.htm

[Descant]

Yes, the deliberative session is more restricted than traditional Town Meeting. You cannot amend an article to change its intent, e.g. adding the word "not". At Traditional Town Meeting, you can simply vote "No" and the issue is closed.
Most Moderators now announce at the beginning of a meeting, "The procedure is: We will not take up new business after 11:00 pm. A motion to reconsider must be made before we move on to the next item of business, etc. preventing the late night shenanigans of years ago.

[bigpatsfan]

Wow... a personal attack right off the bat..... thanks Rusty.... also not sure what I was complaining about.

If my reasoning was incorrect then say why.. which is what TIS and jbolty did.

I am not a fan of personal attacks.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by bigpatsfan

Wow... a personal attack right off the bat..... thanks Rusty.... also not sure what I was complaining about.

If my reasoning was incorrect then say why.. which is what TIS and jbolty did.

I am not a fan of personal attacks.

I apologize if you think I attacked you. Sometimes I should be less critical of other opinions and just let it go.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by bigpatsfan

Not supporting SB2 does not mean wanting less people to vote.

It really means having informed people vote.

SB2 diminishes the value and power of the deliberative session.

Voters that go to the deliberative session hear the pros and cons regarding the articles up for vote. At the deliberative session they have the ability to make changes to whatever is being voted on. SB2 limits what can be changed at the deliberative session.

To me it keeps the power in the hands of the involved and hopefully informed voters. Instead of having someone just voting yes or no on an article without fully understanding the impact of their vote.

At the same time the reason the heavily involved tend to be so is they are more likely pushing an agenda. What gets on the ballot and how it's worded are a huge factor in whether it gets passed or not.

[SAMIAM]

I've seen towns pass some outrageous spending bills with a very simple tactic that would not happen with SB2

Authors of a bill stack the meeting with friends ,relatives and supporters
The bill is delayed until very late at night until other townspeople have to leave because they are tired or have to work the next day
Works every time.

[tis]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

I've seen towns pass some outrageous spending bills with a very simple tactic that would not happen with SB2

Authors of a bill stack the meeting with friends ,relatives and supporters
The bill is delayed until very late at night until other townspeople have to leave because they are tired or have to work the next day
Works every time.

It's true. And in Tuftonboro a few years ago, they voted something down, then after most of the people left, they brought it up again to reconsider. And of course it passed. That was one of the sneakiest ones I have heard of.