No Wake Zone & Rain

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Sailor Jerry

When it rains and storms why is it that boaters have to get up on plane through the Weirs Channel and knock everyone's boat around so they don't have to get wet. I think it is extremely rude of people not to think that other people's investments are being damaged so they and their family and friends don't get wet.
Maybe you should check the forecast before leaving the dock. Inconsiderate and rude has no place on winnipesaukee! Whoever it was that went through the Channel last nite during the storm on plane caused some damage to a couple of boats at the marina. Don't worry we got your bow numbers.

Not just inconsiderate and rude, but mindless.

Hearing thunder earlier this week, I checked "My Radar" to see if I should be going out on the lake. Sure enough, there was a big red and yellow "gloop" heading this way.

No part of the bad weather had made it to New Hampshire. All of it was in Vermont!

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[SAMIAM]

I am in a no wake zone and there is not a day that I can remember when several boats have not thrown up a wake. Some just ignore the sign and others are just trying to stretch the limits by going a little faster than headway speed.
Anyway....assuming the worst, I'm using mooring whips and spring lines so that damage to the boats are no longer a concern.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

I am in a no wake zone and there is not a day that I can remember when several boats have not thrown up a wake. Some just ignore the sign and others are just trying to stretch the limits by going a little faster than headway speed.
Anyway....assuming the worst, I'm using mooring whips and spring lines so that damage to the boats are no longer a concern.

About half of them don't know how to drive their boats and think they need to drive faster than idle speed to keep control.

[Bear Islander]

If I shot a flare at boats that violate the Bear Island NWZ, I would have to buy them by the gross.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

If I shot a flare at boats that violate the Bear Island NWZ, I would have to buy them by the gross.

I would have to agree with that 100%. I bet that no wake zone is the most violated in the lake! Even early in the morning before sunrise when I occasionally fish in that area, boats purposely go flying through there because they think no one is around and for the most part they are right as I NEVER see marine patrol out early in the AM....

[Woodsy]

Perhaps its time to revisit the NWZ definition?

We have 2 definitions and confusing language. We call them No Wake Zones... but in reality they are slow speed zones as headway speed is defined as speed is 6 mph or the slowest speed to travel and still maintain steerage. So legally, you are allowed 6 MPH anyway... some boats more.

So perhaps we should redefine the NWZ to slow zones, slap a 5MPH speed limit on them and call it done?

Woodsy

[tis]

I disagree Woodsy. They are meant to be no wake zones not slow speed zones for a reason. As I have posted before, I spoke to Capt. Dunleavy about the language of the law and he said the headway speed law was meant for the ocean not here on the lake. He said the officers use their judgment, if they see a boat making a wake they will stop them and the officers win in court.

Why are we in such a hurry when we are out on our wonderful lake, enjoying our boats, that we can't slow down enough to be courteous??? Especially the difference between 2 MPH and 6 Mph!!

[Phantom]

Ever try being the seemingly ONLY one to go no wake/headway through FL#2 in a boat under 25' on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon?

It's called a death wish !


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[Woodsy]

Tis...

2 things...

First its the "double definition"...

You are required to go "headway speed" in a NWZ... and then "Headway Speed" is defined as 6MPH or whatever speed is necessary to maintain steerage.

Technically... You are allowed 6 MPH before you break any rules/before the NHMP can do a thing.

Try getting thru the Weirs Channel on a busy Saturday morning... 1 boat going dead slow causes a major backup. The guys behind him are forced to shift in and out of gear all while fighting a current....


Woodsy

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Try getting thru the Weirs Channel on a busy Saturday morning... 1 boat going dead slow causes a major backup. The guys behind him are forced to shift in and out of gear all while fighting a current....

Woodsy

I agree. Many times I have been in a line of boats in the Weirs Channel with boats going sideways and struggling to maintain control because some boat at the front of the line is just crawling along.

Just because your boat does well at 1 MPH doesn't mean that another boat or a larger boat that catches the wind more will handle the same way. It would be nice if people would look behind them occasionally to see if their operation is causing problems for others.

A lot of times the people operating the slow boat are too busy chatting with their passengers or talking on their cell phone to notice the problems they are causing.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

A lot of times the people operating the slow boat are too busy chatting with their passengers or talking on their cell phone to notice the problems they are causing.

You forgot- or simply enjoy being a spectacle because their boat has a throaty "rumble" noise and they enjoy the stares from shore.

Sorta -- "Hey, look at me"




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[Garcia]

Awareness is key - and not just in NWZs! Going between Eagle Island and Governors, I am frequently amazed at the size of the wakes some of the bigger boats put up; too often just a token effort is made in the NWZ and huge rollers come from multiple directions.

[Woodsy]

I don't think the issue with the NWZ @ Governor's Island is because people just blow thru it... although I am sure it happens.

I think the real issue there is the length of the NWZ is so short... all the waves from the boats coming on/off plane churn the waters up like crazy. Especially the big cruisers that displace A LOT of water.

Woodsy

[Garcia]

True - but I was talking about people who slow down very quickly just as they hit the NWZ and plow through throwing up a considerable wake.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Tis...

2 things...

First its the "double definition"...

You are required to go "headway speed" in a NWZ... and then "Headway Speed" is defined as 6MPH or whatever speed is necessary to maintain steerage.

Technically... You are allowed 6 MPH before you break any rules/before the NHMP can do a thing.

Try getting thru the Weirs Channel on a busy Saturday morning... 1 boat going dead slow causes a major backup. The guys behind him are forced to shift in and out of gear all while fighting a current....


Woodsy

I agree the law is not written very well. However, I wish you would talk to the Capt. of MP because he told me making a wake IS breaking the law and NHMP DOES take people to court and they win.

Obviously in a channel like the Weirs everybody is breaking the law and your point is taken.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Tis...

2 things...

First its the "double definition"...

You are required to go "headway speed" in a NWZ... and then "Headway Speed" is defined as 6MPH or whatever speed is necessary to maintain steerage.

Technically... You are allowed 6 MPH before you break any rules/before the NHMP can do a thing.

Try getting thru the Weirs Channel on a busy Saturday morning... 1 boat going dead slow causes a major backup. The guys behind him are forced to shift in and out of gear all while fighting a current....


Woodsy

Woodsy, I agree on the confusion and the Weirs Channel problem. But I'm not sure your explanation on the law is correct or makes sense. I have always taken the 6 mph as a guide. If I was creating an unnecessary wake in a wake zone, I would expect a ticket regardless of speed.

[Woodsy]

Tis...

We can agree to disagree... or perhaps Tim can chime in here. When an object moves such as a boat moves through the water it displaces the water and the wave it creates is called a wake. There is no such thing as NO WAKE. It is not possible, The lawmakers wrote the law to allow you 6MPH or greater because that is a measurable metric... (as opposed to 6" wake wave height or some other hard to measure metric). That's also why there is a law that makes a boat operator responsible for the damage their wake may cause.

The reason they chose 6MPH or maintain steerage is because currents need to be overcome and dead slow can be dangerous in some conditions. (weirs Channel comes to mind) They also understood that not all boats create the same size wake at the same speed.

A NHMP officer may pull you over.. BUT You are allowed 6MPH in a NWZ... With todays GPS apps etc. its a pretty easy defense to an MP officer or a judge.

Woodsy

PS: I used to own a boat that dead ahead slow was 7-8MPH.... I learned A LOT about this particular rule.

[tis]

Since you refer to Capt. Dunleavy as Tim, you must know him, so why don't you just call him and ask him if you will be stopped for making a wake doing 6MPH? Also ask if they do take people to court and MP does win. I know what he told ME. I wish he would chime in here. The 6MPH rule was because of currents mostly for the ocean when you need to maintain steerage. Weirs Channel may require that at times in parts of it.

We really do have to agree to disagree because I see plenty of boats obeying the law and not making any appreciable wake. The water is almost dead flat behind a lot of boats obeying the law. I just don't think there are that many boats that need to make a wake. People just don't want to slow down.

I would hate to have posts such as yours make people think that they can make a wake going 6 MPH and get in trouble for it. According to what I was told it isn't a good defense. I wonder if the MP officers really know all the laws now? It seems it is a very different force than before.

[Woodsy]

Tis... I know that they pull people over, write tickets and have successful prosecutions...

That being said, the rule of law is 6MPH... and it doesn't change be it the lake or the ocean as there are no provisions written into the RSA for exceptions...

So you can ask the MP yourself, or ask a lawyer... you get 6MPH before you get in trouble.

Woodsy

[tis]

Woodsy, I did ask MP. Did you not read either of my posts. Now I want YOU to ask MP.

I know how the law is written and I agree it is not written very well. And the Capt. thinks that too. But he told me no wake zones still mean no wake. You do NOT get 6 MPH before you get into trouble. I really wish you would ask him.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by tis

Since you refer to Capt. Dunleavy as Tim, you must know him, so why don't you just call him and ask him if you will be stopped for making a wake doing 6MPH? Also ask if they do take people to court and MP does win. I know what he told ME. I wish he would chime in here. The 6MPH rule was because of currents mostly for the ocean when you need to maintain steerage. Weirs Channel may require that at times in parts of it.

We really do have to agree to disagree because I see plenty of boats obeying the law and not making any appreciable wake. The water is almost dead flat behind a lot of boats obeying the law. I just don't think there are that many boats that need to make a wake. People just don't want to slow down.

I would hate to have posts such as yours make people think that they can make a wake going 6 MPH and get in trouble for it. According to what I was told it isn't a good defense. I wonder if the MP officers really know all the laws now? It seems it is a very different force than before.

I hate to be negative, but based on what you say, Capt. Dunleavy is dead wrong and really should just concentrate on law enforcement, not making up laws and reasons for them. There's no difference in steering a boat in salt water versus fresh water and the law clearly makes no distinction.

NH really should just change the law to 5 MPH like the rest of the north east (perhaps the rest of the US?). 6 MPH IS too fast in a NWZ for most pleasure boats, IMO. I tend to do 5 MPH and make a tiny wake. I do it right in front of MP all the time with no issues.

That said, people on Winnipesaukee get WAY too worked up over wakes in no wake zones. The rest of the world is pretty ambivalent toward the whole issue unless the wakes are monsterous. You should see busy (non-Winnipesaukee) NWZ harbors full of moored boats with powered dinghies some time. Everyone knows the dinghies make tiny wakes, even at speed, so they can race around at WOT without getting a second look from anyone. If people here saw that they'd flip out...

[BroadHopper]

Been on this lake for decades. What I find out is each LEO interpret headway speed differently. One LEO will say I'm going to fast and another will tell me to speed it up! That happened once at the same time in the Weirs Channel but at different spots. There is never a right or wrong.

The way I see things, A no wake zone is perfect on an area that is not a thru way such as coves and bays. But channels and inlets/outlets requires headway speed to maintain safe steerage.

A deep vee boat tends to wander left and right at no wake speed but will travel straight if I maintain headway speed at 7+ mph. A pontoon boat and PWC can travel faster without creating a wake than a deep vee. So the interpretation is mixed in the eye of an LEO with little experience in boating.

I was pulled over a number of times in the channel when an LEO tells me to slow down. Seeing me jumping in and out of gear and wandering left and right he sees a potential impaired driver and will stop to give me a breathalyzer test. I even had some LEO telling me to have my mechanic fix the boat! That tells me how much they know boat handling!

[SAMIAM]

Just to play devil's advocate........going south through the Weirs channel, in the spring the current is at least 5mph and a deep V boat would need to travel at 10mph to maintain steerage......otherwise you'd get sideways, as Tilton said.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Just to play devil's advocate........going south through the Weirs channel, in the spring the current is at least 5mph and a deep V boat would need to travel at 10mph to maintain steerage......otherwise you'd get sideways, as Tilton said.

That concept goes over many a boaters head!

In the spring you have no choice but to cause a wake when going against the current in the channel. It is completely impossible not to....

Dan

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

That concept goes over many a boaters head!

In the spring you have no choice but to cause a wake when going against the current in the channel. It is completely impossible not to....

Dan

Tell that to the judge!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Woodsy, I agree on the confusion and the Weirs Channel problem. But I'm not sure your explanation on the law is correct or makes sense. I have always taken the 6 mph as a guide. If I was creating an unnecessary wake in a wake zone, I would expect a ticket regardless of speed.

Some of "the confusion" may be grounded in the manner in which speed is measured. Some boats can't register such speeds, when others use SOG—when SOG doesn't meet the RSA's criteria.

The default position goes to "common sense".

The RSA was changed in 1995, when proliferation of over-sized boats (most-suitable to the ocean) began on Lake Winnipesaukee. Here's a quote re NHMP enforcement:

"...I’ll offer you some history behind the law change that took effect in 1995...In the early 1990’s Marine Patrol began patrolling our seacoast. It was recognized by our officers that the tidal currents in the state’s coastal rivers often exceeded 6 mph and therefore safe steerage for a vessel fighting the current would need to exceed the limits of the law.

As a result the law was changed to its current language. Local Judges have accepted and recognize the intent of the law and therefore the application of the “slowest speed necessary…” is the portion of the definition that our officers most often use in their application of the law.

To try and answer your question specifically as it applies to a 12’ jon boat (your example). The officer would look at several things when considering a boat stop for a violation. They would include the existing water conditions, the boat’s wake, how much faster than necessary they are travelling, is the attitude of the bow “lifting” vs. flat, speed and size of other vessels in the immediate area, etc. I believe that a common sense application of these concepts by any boat operator will keep them safe and legal...

[Lt.] Timothy C. Dunleavy"

From the first paragraph, notice how the issue was skirted when every other coastal state has kept the old statute! (Except Oregon, which added "making white water behind").

Originally Posted by tis

I disagree Woodsy. They are meant to be no wake zones not slow speed zones for a reason. As I have posted before, I spoke to Capt. Dunleavy about the language of the law and he said the headway speed law was meant for the ocean not here on the lake. He said the officers use their judgment, if they see a boat making a wake they will stop them and the officers win in court.
Why are we in such a hurry when we are out on our wonderful lake, enjoying our boats, that we can't slow down enough to be courteous??? Especially the difference between 2 MPH and 6 Mph!!

Yes, indeed!

There is no provision for "being forced" to shift in-and-out of gear.

BTW: I see two more boat lifts have been added this season within a stone's throw from my place—in a protected harbor—and it's not because there are too many pontoon boats!
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