The State's Largest Solar array

[NH.Solar]

Man I wish I was installing this one!
The construction of a two megawatt 8,000 module ground array has begun adjacent to the NHEC's substation on Moultonboro Neck Road. When it is completed at the end of 2017 at a total cost of 5 million dollars the Co-op anticipates that it will provide enough electricity to power 600 homes with nothing more than the silent clean energy of the sun. Way to go NHEC!
Moultonboro is one of the few towns bordering the lake that doesn't have a RETE (renewable energy tax exemption) provision, so this should have a positive impact on the already low tax rate for the town as well.

[fatlazyless]

This is owned and built by the NH Electric Coop so it certainly seems like it is an electricity generating solar facility that's good for the Electric Coop customers....which includes me. So, where's the sun today?

That makes it a little different from the Groton wind farm that is owned by a Spanish utility that sells all its' wind power to a Boston utility.

[Major]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

This is owned and built by the NH Electric Coop so it certainly seems like it is an electricity generating solar facility that's good for the Electric Coop customers....which includes me. So, where's the sun today?

That makes it a little different from the Groton wind farm that is owned by a Spanish utility that sells all its' wind power to a Boston utility.

I can't wait for some good old fashioned global warming to happen. (Or is it climate change, global climate change, extreme weather, etc. I can't keep up!)

[wifi]

Not to throw a damper, but bring some reality is a few facts, which I suspect will be instantly argued with, but none the less.

I will make the logical assumption that this will not include batteries, so this is a solar "assistance" to power generation during sunny daytime, otherwise we would need to include the cost of batteries. We can argue this later, if one wants to, but batteries have a low lifetime relative to the solar cells...

Solar cells have a lifetime of 20-30 years, estimates, because few of the modern day cells have been around that long. So, lets take the expanded guess of 30 years, that means every 30 years all the $5M cells will need to be replaced. Anyone want to guess the economy here ? It is great if the government will pay for it (cheers from the liberals today), but lets think of what this really means, feel good ?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by wifi

Not to throw a damper, but bring some reality is a few facts, which I suspect will be instantly argued with, but none the less.

I will make the logical assumption that this will not include batteries, so this is a solar "assistance" to power generation during sunny daytime, otherwise we would need to include the cost of batteries. We can argue this later, if one wants to, but batteries have a low lifetime relative to the solar cells...

Solar cells have a lifetime of 20-30 years, estimates, because few of the modern day cells have been around that long. So, lets take the expanded guess of 30 years, that means every 30 years all the $5M cells will need to be replaced. Anyone want to guess the economy here ? It is great if the government will pay for it (cheers from the liberals today), but lets think of what this really means, feel good ?

Actually, you didn't include facts, you simply estimated the cost of the panels, then suggested it was high. You didn't tell us how high, or compare it to other sources.

Solar may be a bit more expensive than gas today if we think only of our monthly electric bill. But there are plenty of benefits to solar that are also separate from our monthly bills--cleaner air, cleaner water, a cooler planet--just to name a few. Plus, thanks to economies of scale, every new solar installation brings future solar panel costs down further.

Three cheers for NHEC!

[wifi]

hmmm... I appreciate your emotional response, as is so overruling today, but where are your facts, if you are going to attack mine ?

[fatlazyless]

With all the additional property tax revenue generated by this new solar farm, the Town of Moultonborough could take a second look at building a 9-million dollar indoor, year 'round, heated and air conditioned gym-pool-tennis facility ..... and name it Club Moultonborough.

[NH.Solar]

WiFi,
I can't remember the last time I sold a solar module with less than an "80% of original production" warranty period of 25 years. This is the current standard, not the exception. The solar panels (aka modules) that I choose to sell are all made by well vetted companies (LG, SolarWorld, Canadian Solar, Prism, Hanwha) that produce their products either domestically or in the countries of one of our well trusted allies. In general the industry assumption is that a solar array will still be producing a bulk of it's original rated power for 40+ years. Investing in solar power is a solid investment for both the individual and businesses alike and the move by the Co-op would seem to re-enforce that.
A few more sundry facts, much of the power for Interlakes High in Meredith comes from a solar array at the north side of the track behind the school, the municipal buildings for the Town of Durham are powered by a 2,100 module array they own in a gravel pit in Lee, and the Town of Hanover has committed to a goal of 100% of their energy coming from renewable sources by 2030. These are facts and/or achievable goals. Renewable energy, and solar power in particular, has recently come into it's own and is a viable and economical alternative to just pulling from the grid. One more tidbit, employment in NH due to the solar related industries grew 17 fold last year. I wonder how many lakes region folks will be making a living on Moultonboro Neck Rd :-)
I am a Co-op customer and happy to be one. The monthly membership fee of $29 seems a little stiff, but in every other way they seem to be progressive and forward thinking. Again I applaud them for their decision and commitment to locally produced renewable energy.
For those that are interested here is a link to the NHEC press release concerning the Moultonboro project; https://www.nhec.com/nhec-breaks-gro...t-solar-array/ and here is a link to the warranty for the Washington State manufactured SolarWorld modules; https://www.google.com/search?q=sola...hrome&ie=UTF-8
Cheers!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Actually, you didn't include facts, you simply estimated the cost of the panels, then suggested it was high. You didn't tell us how high, or compare it to other sources.

Solar may be a bit more expensive than gas today if we think only of our monthly electric bill. But there are plenty of benefits to solar that are also separate from our monthly bills--cleaner air, cleaner water, a cooler planet--just to name a few. Plus, thanks to economies of scale, every new solar installation brings future solar panel costs down further.

Three cheers for NHEC!

Solar panel farms are not exactly aesthetically appealing.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Solar panel farms are not exactly aesthetically appealing.

I agree--I would much rather see an open field than a solar farm. (Also, I appreciate that you focus on a fair, reasonably objective point.)

But on the other hand, I think solar panels on many homes look just as good as asphalt shingles, and solar panels on flat roof commercial buildings look much better than most of the things they replace.

Plus, all these solar installations displace distant oil rigs and coal mines, and improve local air and water quality.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Solar panel farms are not exactly aesthetically appealing.

I think they look a lot nicer than smoke stacks and high voltage power lines. They are certainly no less attractive than a parking lot. Personally, I think it would be awesome if they were used to shade and shelter every parking lot that exists today. The land is already cleared, already ugly; and who would not appreciate the shade in the Summer and the rain and snow shelter during storms? I bet the pavement would last much longer in the shade too.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by wifi

Not to throw a damper, but bring some reality is a few facts, which I suspect will be instantly argued with, but none the less.

I will make the logical assumption that this will not include batteries, so this is a solar "assistance" to power generation during sunny daytime, otherwise we would need to include the cost of batteries. We can argue this later, if one wants to, but batteries have a low lifetime relative to the solar cells...

Solar cells have a lifetime of 20-30 years, estimates, because few of the modern day cells have been around that long. So, lets take the expanded guess of 30 years, that means every 30 years all the $5M cells will need to be replaced. Anyone want to guess the economy here ? It is great if the government will pay for it (cheers from the liberals today), but lets think of what this really means, feel good ?

Why would this installation need to have batteries? You just tie it to the grid and it adds power when the sun shines and does not when the sun does not shine. There is no need to go off the grid to use a system like this; you just need to offset the energy you use with the energy you produce, over time, not necessarily at any specific instant in time.

Solar panel costs have dropped dramatically over the last 10 years. Those $5 million panels may only cost $1 million 30 years from now. They were at least $10 million, 10 years ago.

With the incentive to make panels cheaper and more powerful, I predict that the advances in power output and reductions in cost will be astounding when we look back on it 20 years from now.

[StardogChampion]

One other aspect of alternative energy I rarely hear discussed is reliance/security of infrastructure.

I hear a lot about how the current electric distribution system is aging or vulnerable due to how centralized power production is. The right hacker, terrorist attack, etc. on a few key power generating facilities would have a serious impact on our way of life and economy. Same for oil refineries. Whenever there's a Gulf hurricane that hits the right spots, suddenly all you hear in the news is about shortages due to the small number of them. That's all even before you start talking about "big oil" lobbyists and their effect on democracy or climate change which are all under constant debate.

Energy supplies like solar are hyper-local and distributed, not centralized. They are much, much less vulnerable to attack or natural disaster -- though there is still the cyber-security aspect to deal with (hackers). It seems to me again taking climate change, etc. out of the equation just from a infrastructure and national security standpoint that's good enough to promote alternative, local sources of power generation -- taking all the eggs out of one basket so to speak. Find a prepper without solar (no such thing) and for good reason.

Aside, if I could have a solar array that even just provided enough power for everything in my home but heating/cooling and even charged up my car every day I would love that kind of self-reliance. No more waiting for PSNH to clean up and/or praying the local gas station has power/fuel for my generator.

Where's my Mr. Fusion and hoverboard?

[Rich]

So what happens to any of these solar arrays when the array, or the house, building, etc. get struck by an electrical storm: AKA Lightening?

It sounds very expensive! Does insurance fully cover this? I always wondered!

Even though I have electrical surge protectors at home, it sure was expensive when just about every electrical device in my house failed, and my house wasn't directly hit, the strike was never located, but somewhere nearby on the street.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rich

So what happens to any of these solar arrays when the array, or the house, building, etc. get struck by an electrical storm: AKA Lightening?

It sounds very expensive! Does insurance fully cover this? I always wondered!

Even though I have electrical surge protectors at home, it sure was expensive when just about every electrical device in my house failed, and my house wasn't directly hit, the strike was never located, but somewhere nearby on the street.

Like any other electrical device, you can take many steps to prevent lightning damage, #1 is good grounding and each solar panel element should have its own good ground. One of the advantages of a solar array is that it's made up of multiple individual elements that can be easily isolated from each other with surge protection, thus if one element is struck, the others are not necessarily affected.

That said lightning varies dramatically in intensity and power and there are some strikes that will simply cause a lot of damage no matter what. Sometimes, as in your case, you can do everything right and still lose.

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by Rich

So what happens to any of these solar arrays when the array, or the house, building, etc. get struck by an electrical storm: AKA Lightening?

It sounds very expensive! Does insurance fully cover this? I always wondered!

Even though I have electrical surge protectors at home, it sure was expensive when just about every electrical device in my house failed, and my house wasn't directly hit, the strike was never located, but somewhere nearby on the street.

We have a modest solar system of 6120 Watts and are a 100% electric home including heat. We are very satisfied with what we have and the system performance. We added the system to our home insurance coverage for very little $$. Something like $25/annually.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

We have a modest solar system of 6150 Watts and are a 100% electric home including heat. We are very satisfied with what we have and the system performance. We added the system to our home insurance coverage for very little $$. Something like $25/annually.

How many panels is that, and how much of your power does it supply?

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[wifi]

Hmmm, current grounding procedures, accepted by the electric code provides for ONE singular ground, not individual ones, this is standard electrical engineering practices, going back centuries. Of course, if you wish to believe what you want, I will not object, because your loss won't cost me.

[Sleezstak]

Too bad "cloud arrays" were not an option to produce power. They would be killing it right now.
Although everything is in the cloud now I guess.....

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by wifi

Hmmm, current grounding procedures, accepted by the electric code provides for ONE singular ground, not individual ones, this is standard electrical engineering practices, going back centuries. Of course, if you wish to believe what you want, I will not object, because your loss won't cost me.

If you had 10 acres of solar panels, I don't think you'd want just one grounding rod for all of them.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Sleezstak

Too bad "cloud arrays" were not an option to produce power. They would be killing it right now.
Although everything is in the cloud now I guess.....

Too bad someone hasn't figured out how to save some of that sun in the cloud so we could retrieve it on miserable weekends.

[rsmlp]

I live on Long Island and can't say as I'm thrilled about looking at this every day. Just how large can we expect it to be?

[BroadHopper]

I read somewhere in a scientific journey that if all the municipal waste landfills were harnessed for methanol production and covered with solar array we should have enough electricity to power the nation.

Seemed far fest but would be an excellent idea! Reuse all landfills for energy production. After all the land is cheap!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Too bad someone hasn't figured out how to save some of that sun in the cloud so we could retrieve it on miserable weekends.

You can save the power in your basement--almost. These aren't quite ready for the mass market--first installations are happening now. But in a year or two with technology improving and prices prices falling, they should make it easy to save solar power for a miserable weekend, or at least a dark night.

https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I read somewhere in a scientific journey that if all the municipal waste landfills were harnessed for methanol production and covered with solar array we should have enough electricity to power the nation.

Seemed far fest but would be an excellent idea! Reuse all landfills for energy production. After all the land is cheap!

The next big thing will be harnessing our septic systems and output from our home toilets, along with "eat more beans" campaigns!

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

How many panels is that, and how much of your power does it supply?

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

We have 18 panels. They are Solar World - Model SW 340 XL's (340 watt). It is a new install (5 months) so we do not have lots of data on the power generated. Yesterday we had 32.68 kwh generated and the system target was for 23.43 kwh. That was 139.46% over our target. Yesterday was a sunny day hence the high amount of power generated. Obviously on cloudy/rainy days we get very little power generation. We have a "Net Meter" that sends power to the electric company when we generate more than we are using.

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by Dave R

If you had 10 acres of solar panels, I don't think you'd want just one grounding rod for all of them.

I agree that for the large system size in Moultonboro there would be more than one grounding rod/point. For a home solar power generating system grounding is suffucient and proper through the house electrical system ground and per code. It is tied directly to the incoming power companies meter through the house electrical panel so you can send them any excess power generated. With a solar system you have a Net Metering meter vs a standard power company meter. If it was a stand alone home system on the ground then I believe it would have a ground rod at the solar array as well as the standard house ground.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I read somewhere in a scientific journey that if all the municipal waste landfills were harnessed for methanol production and covered with solar array we should have enough electricity to power the nation.

Seemed far fest but would be an excellent idea! Reuse all landfills for energy production. After all the land is cheap!

They're already doing that with landfills that are capped in central MA. I do like the covered parking lot idea though in snow areas there would have to be methods of handling snow sliding off. How do they clear snow off these large arrays in snow country?

As for home applications, Tesla is getting ready to produce a variety of solar shingles for roof replacements or original installs. They look very nice.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Orion

I do like the covered parking lot idea though in snow areas there would have to be methods of handling snow sliding off. How do they clear snow off these large arrays in snow country?

I think they could use the same method used to clear parking lots after snow is cleaned off the cars and onto the pavement. The amount of snow is the same regardless of where it first lands.

I think the recommended procedure is to just let the snow melt and slide off. In the Winter, the panels should be tilted steep enough to shed snow quickly.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by wifi

Not to throw a damper, but bring some reality is a few facts, which I suspect will be instantly argued with, but none the less.

I will make the logical assumption that this will not include batteries, so this is a solar "assistance" to power generation during sunny daytime, otherwise we would need to include the cost of batteries. We can argue this later, if one wants to, but batteries have a low lifetime relative to the solar cells...

Solar cells have a lifetime of 20-30 years, estimates, because few of the modern day cells have been around that long. So, lets take the expanded guess of 30 years, that means every 30 years all the $5M cells will need to be replaced. Anyone want to guess the economy here ? It is great if the government will pay for it (cheers from the liberals today), but lets think of what this really means, feel good ?

You are right on the mark wifi. It's my hope that sometime in my lifetime there is a break through in battery tech that allows enough power generated by solar during sunny times to be stored to make it through no or low power times. But there is nothing on the horizon yet.

The life of the cells is looking much better than originally better thought but this technology is no where near ready to replace fossil fuels. Here in Massachusetts we've had politicians who have decided to shut down coal in the state, with the last massive coal plant slated to shut down soon. The problem is that there is no alternative large enough to replace the lost power. Solar does not make up the difference, in fact it is not even close. Natural gas has taken up some of the slack, but again, here in Mass, there is not enough pipeline capacity to run these plants during peak winter months so they must be shut down during cold snaps so that there is enough natural gas for heating customers.

I'm actually considering installing a large propane generator in my Mass home as it appears California style brown outs / black outs may be come a reality in New England due to the decreased generation capacity from fairly new environmental rules.


Solar is also not viable without the tax credits and carbon credits. Large alternative energy stake holders have said they will divest if credits disappear because the tech is not economically viable with out them.

I like the idea, but it is nowhere near ready to take over for traditional generation methods.

[longislander]

I believe the location for this array (if facing the MoBo neck electric sub-station from the road) is behind the substation before the Arcadia campground. It is questionable if the "view" will be "unsightly".

https://www.nhec.com/nhec-breaks-gro...t-solar-array/

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/sit...tm16531464.pdf

https://www.puc.nh.gov/Electric/electric.htm


It should also be pointed out that NHECOOP is not a "utility". RE: RSA 362.

"... rural electric cooperatives ..." "... shall not be considered public utilities .."

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../362/362-2.htm

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I read somewhere in a scientific journey that if all the municipal waste landfills were harnessed for methanol production and covered with solar array we should have enough electricity to power the nation.

Seemed far fest but would be an excellent idea! Reuse all landfills for energy production. After all the land is cheap!

Just think about how much could be collected if we could put gas collectors on peoples butts.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Rich

The next big thing will be harnessing our septic systems and output from our home toilets, along with "eat more beans" campaigns!

Already a real thing!https://www.sciencealert.com/trials-...ste-into-power

[CaptT820]

Solar arrays will not be the only things that end up on top of landfills now or in the future. Once a landfill is capped and does not pose a danger to the public you'd be amazed what they get used for. I work for an environmental/geotechnical firm and we actually redevelop these properties into everything from fields to solar farms to upscale commercial developments. The Home Depot/Jordan's furniture located in Reading, MA at Walker's Brook Crossing is actually on top of a landfill. I personally just developed a 57 acre parcel in Silicon Valley, CA right on San Francisco Bay that is on top of a 75-foot thick landfill for a very high end commercial client.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ITD

You are right on the mark wifi. It's my hope that sometime in my lifetime there is a break through in battery tech that allows enough power generated by solar during sunny times to be stored to make it through no or low power times. But there is nothing on the horizon yet.

The life of the cells is looking much better than originally better thought but this technology is no where near ready to replace fossil fuels. Here in Massachusetts we've had politicians who have decided to shut down coal in the state, with the last massive coal plant slated to shut down soon. The problem is that there is no alternative large enough to replace the lost power. Solar does not make up the difference, in fact it is not even close. Natural gas has taken up some of the slack, but again, here in Mass, there is not enough pipeline capacity to run these plants during peak winter months so they must be shut down during cold snaps so that there is enough natural gas for heating customers.

I'm actually considering installing a large propane generator in my Mass home as it appears California style brown outs / black outs may be come a reality in New England due to the decreased generation capacity from fairly new environmental rules.


Solar is also not viable without the tax credits and carbon credits. Large alternative energy stake holders have said they will divest if credits disappear because the tech is not economically viable with out them.

I like the idea, but it is nowhere near ready to take over for traditional generation methods.

I think it all depends on what you mean by "on the horizon", "replace", and "not viable".

While green energy is not able to provide 100% of our needs today, and it depends on various government subsidies, it's growing by leaps and bounds, and scale economies and other efficiencies have improved it's cost position dramatically. These trends are likely to continue.

It's also likely that batteries will continue to improve. You may have missed my link to Tesla's Powerwall above. There are also large scale systems being installed, easy to find via Google.

I'm not sure why you believe politicians have "decided" to shut coal plants or why they'd be shut if they are still needed. Plants are owned by profit-maximizing power companies, not the state, and there's a massive amount of info available that shows that the real killer of coal plants is the plummeting cost of natural gas due to fracking.

[LIforrelaxin]

This thread is interesting.... Bottom line in my mind is the following:

Solar can't meet all our power needs currently and probably not in my lifetime. Why because storage is a problem... What Solar can do is help the power grid. When these arrays can be put up in locations where it doesn't impact society, and the land is likely to be used for nothing else, I say why not. Yes they aren't a sight everyone wants to see in the morning, so you leave a wooded buffer around them...It is better then doing nothing at all, to reduce fosil fuel plants...

The thing is just like the wind farms people are opposed to change... but change eventually becomes the norm and you get used to it.

[wifi]

Well, if you want to rely on solar, especially when there is a grid down, think the Moultonboro weather problems, and you want to supply the town with this array, you still need night time storage. Obama/FLL invested massive amounts of $$ into this: http://seriouslyfinance.com/2017/06/...luesky-energy/ Which showed some theoretical promise, but lots of real time (if it wasn't for the subsidy) would fail.

Don't get me wrong, one of my assets runs on solar/batteries, has been for 35 years, it is just yet approaching prime time.

As far as grounding, do a little research, and tap (googles... sigh) "knowledge" if you need to. Then, perhaps, you can build up your side of the story.

[pjard]

I have a 44 panel, 14500 W system that has been turned on since September. My total investment after the rebates was less than most decent cars. At my current rates, the system will be paid for in another 6 1/2 years. I am indeed lucky that you can not see any of the panels (just the way my roof line is). I did have a very small January and February electric bill but every other month has been $13.40 meter charge. With regards to batteries, with net metering they are not needed. They make no financial sense unless you want to be truly off the grid. Bottom line is I am thrilled with my decision. To the critics, look around, read the news, solar installations are happening in mass numbers, everyone must be wrong.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by pjard

I have a 44 panel, 14500 W system that has been turned on since September. My total investment after the rebates was less than most decent cars. At my current rates, the system will be paid for in another 6 1/2 years. I am indeed lucky that you can not see any of the panels (just the way my roof line is). I did have a very small January and February electric bill but every other month has been $13.40 meter charge. With regards to batteries, with net metering they are not needed. They make no financial sense unless you want to be truly off the grid. Bottom line is I am thrilled with my decision. To the critics, look around, read the news, solar installations are happening in mass numbers, everyone must be wrong.

Wait until you're roof leaks. You will be singing a different tune. I have a friend of mine that installs them. Two years ago he spent the whole winter calming angry customers. Don't get me wrong, I think they are great but I would never put them on the roof of my house. Maybe a garage or a carport but not my house, JMO!

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Wait until you're roof leaks. You will be singing a different tune. I have a friend of mine that installs them. Two years ago he spend the whole winter calming angry customers. Don't get me wrong, I think they are great but I would never put them on the roof of my house. Maybe a garage or a carport but not my house, JMO!

Totally understand but the new solar city panels are more integrated. that said, how would you like to be the ones with the "old" panels? OBSOLETE and with ugly panels on your roof. try moving THAT house!

[BroadHopper]

I know of a landowner on our beloved lake that wanted to put solar panels on his property. He could not cut the trees for a clear shot at the sun. He could not place permanently solar panels near the waterline to take advantage of the sun. So he put the panels on wheels making them 'temporary'. Needless to say the DES was not happy but its within the law. Something to consider if you want solar panels near the water for direct sunlight.

[Wood Chopper]

Rebates....subsidies....does the sun provide these too?

[DickR]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

..... Yes they aren't a sight everyone wants to see in the morning, so you leave a wooded buffer around them...

The thing is just like the wind farms people are opposed to change...

I hope that large scale arrays in a rural setting will be largely hidden by buffers around them, and this isn't all that hard to do, with arrays at ground level. The problem I have with wind farms is that they can't be hidden; they must be well up into the air to capture wind. That makes them far too visible to far too many who really don't want the mountain views spoiled that way. Just look at the wind farm over in I think Groton, so very visible from I93 heading up past exits 24-25. I wouldn't too many more of those all over the place. Solar makes a lot more sense.

[pjard]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Wait until you're roof leaks. You will be singing a different tune. I have a friend of mine that installs them. Two years ago he spent the whole winter calming angry customers. Don't get me wrong, I think they are great but I would never put them on the roof of my house. Maybe a garage or a carport but not my house, JMO!

My roof leak? Again, look around at all installations going on everywhere. Is everyone's roof leaking? If you don't like solar or don't want solar that's fine, but stop blasting us that made the jump.....or are you jealous? OK, that was joke.

[FlyingScot]

Great piece in the Globe that provides lots of hard numbers for Mass residents around the issues we've been discussing. As noted by another poster, a payback period of around 7 years, with even better returns available based on family income.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...dwN/story.html

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by pjard

My roof leak? Again, look around at all installations going on everywhere. Is everyone's roof leaking? If you don't like solar or don't want solar that's fine, but stop blasting us that made the jump.....or are you jealous? OK, that was joke.

Yes that's it, I'm so jealous you got the last one!

[Lakegeezer]

Is anyone familiar with the rules about cutting trees within the shoreline protection zone? Is there an exception for trees that are within a certain distance from a house? Our solar situation is good, except for trees within 20 feet of the house that we've let grow too tall. Unfortunately, losing those trees would put us under the point requirement for the shoreline 50 foot grid system.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Is anyone familiar with the rules about cutting trees within the shoreline protection zone? Is there an exception for trees that are within a certain distance from a house? Our solar situation is good, except for trees within 20 feet of the house that we've let grow too tall. Unfortunately, losing those trees would put us under the point requirement for the shoreline 50 foot grid system.

I believe any tree that is a detriment to the house (not sure of the exact distance)or has become infested with bugs, struck by lightning, diseased, etc, etc, is allowed to be cut.

Most area tree cutters such as Cort Kelly of Arbortech are very familiar with the requirements of which ones are OK to cut and which ones you can't. Cort will normally take pictures of trees he is cutting in case an issue arises later on...

Dan

[NH.Solar]

Good morning everyone,
This thread seems to have strayed quite a bit from the original topic and there are unfortunately some bits of misinformation in it.
All residential installations in NH must be done according to the 2014 NEC codes and NH PUC regulations. An excellent overview of the regulations for New Hampshire solar installations can be found here. Obviously I'm biased, but I think the website in my signature is also an excellent source of information.
Shoreland protection rules apply to solar installations just as they would any fixed structure. Personally I wish these rules had been put in place 40 years ago...
Just because a system is a few years old and can't produce the power that a comparable state of the art array doesn't mean it isn't still valuable. A 20 panel system of ten years ago would have been high performance if it produced 5,000 watts, today the production from that same 20 panel array will exceed 6,000 watts. 'Difference is... the ten year old array is most certainly paid off and for the next 30+ years the power will be coming to the homeowner virtually for free. If there is a maintenance cost it would likely be the replacement of an inverter. Most are warrantied for 12 years so a 20+ anticipated life would be a fair assumption ...and maybe it never fails at all
I don't know how an owned and properly installed solar system and free electricity could ever be thought of as a detriment in the sale of a property.
A leased system? well that is another ball game
There have been some very specialized solar installation materials and techniques available for years now that pretty much guarantee that a roof mounted array won't leak. If there is a problem it can usually be traced back to workmanship. It would be good to note here though that a solar array should never be installed over an aged roof. The good news though is that the shingle replacement cost on a south facing roof plane being considered for a solar array is could also be considered for the 30% tax credit. Also once the array has been installed it is unlikely that the roof beneath will ever need shingling again due to the fact that the array shades the shingles from the sun's harmful UV rays.
The cost of energy storage has come down considerably in the last few years and will likely continue to declining. Installing a battery system has two main advantages; self consumption and backup power. There is a lot to this subject and if you want to learn more I'd suggest going here. Self consumption is mainly an advantage for NHEC customers at the present while backup power ...well who doesn't like the thought of power after the storm!

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Is anyone familiar with the rules about cutting trees within the shoreline protection zone? Is there an exception for trees that are within a certain distance from a house? Our solar situation is good, except for trees within 20 feet of the house that we've let grow too tall. Unfortunately, losing those trees would put us under the point requirement for the shoreline 50 foot grid system.

I was just reading them last week. If you're below the 50 point threshold, you can cut within the zone to "protect structures" and "maintain clearances". IMHO, I think you'd be on the wrong side of the rules.

[Pineedles]

I have a question regarding net metering. If a home were to only use the electricity generated by a solar array 4 months (June thru September), what kind of $$ rebate could be expected for the 8 other months? Assume the tiles are purchased outright.

[NH.Solar]

Pineneedles,
The rebates are totally separate from the concept of net metering. You will receive a 30% tax credit based on the gross of the array, and in addition receive a 50 cent per kilowatt rebate from the NH PUC(capped a $2,500).
Think of net metering as the meter spinning backwards as you produce excess power and generating credits on your NHEC account. A properly sized array is based on your annual consumption, and if it is figured right at the end of a year the net metering credits will cancel out your consumption debits. The Co-op is unique in that they discount the net metering credits by 25%, so an array would have to be slightly oversized to accommodate this and still be able to hit net zero at year's end. I hope that helps!

[Pineedles]

Thank you Peter for your response. I thought it might have a cap, and that negates the savings I was anticipating. Since the house is not occupied for 8 months I thought we could recover the cost of the array quickly, AND generate revenue. I guess not, but thanks again.

[Rich]

Has the change in net metering rate been legislated yet? So is it too late to lock in the $1 rate? Is NH at .75 now?

[wifi]

Comment:
So, the Coop charges you 25% of YOUR power to resell ?? Maybe I should get into the power company business... lol


Question:
We all know how paranoid the electric companies are when you have a backup generator, that you don't backfeed. How is this accomplished with the net metering concept. I'm meaning this in what exact components and model numbers are used to accomplish this? Thanks.

[NH.Solar]

Rich,
The change in the legislated public utilities dollar for dollar net metering has not occurred ...yet, but it is rumored to occur sometime this summer. You will be locked in at the 1 for 1 rate if you have an installation contracted and the interconnect agreement has been filed if/when the change occurs.
For anyone that has been considering solar and is an Eversource, Unitil or Liberty customer, the time to act is now!

[SIKSUKR]

Never did the numbers but I just assumed that somebody with the low usage as myself would not make any sense to even consider a solar setup because the payback would take forever. Would I be mistaken? Average bill is about $60 of which only $30 is for the power itself.

[bobkatfly]

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

Rich,
The change in the legislated public utilities dollar for dollar net metering has not occurred ...yet, but it is rumored to occur sometime this summer. You will be locked in at the 1 for 1 rate if you have an installation contracted and the interconnect agreement has been filed if/when the change occurs.
For anyone that has been considering solar and is an Eversource, Unitil or Liberty customer, the time to act is now!

Just picked up this thread. Very interesting. I put up a 6KW ground mount system in 2012 in Tuftonboro. Have a perfectly South oriented hill so the installation is somewhat hidden from the house although I love looking at it more than my wife. Did it mostly myself. Had to contract some excavating and a licensed electrician for the final tie in. Put in micro inverters setup for net metering only. We are there about 40% of the time until I retire in a year. No air conditioning, electric hot water, oil fueled forced hot water heat, some electric space heat, use a pellet stove during the winter and the house is not very efficient as far as heat loss. I haven't had an electric bill since going online. I believe if I installed air and was there 100% that would change but it would still be well worth the original effort. Our utility supplier is Wolfeboro electric and we've been 1:1 since the install. I'd do it again in a heart beat.

NH Solar, with the potential upcoming exchange rate change you mentioned, would you say I would be grandfathered in to the 1:1 exchange?

Great discussion

[NH.Solar]

Siksukr, where your metering fee is already 30 I'll assume that you're a NHEC customer. I agree that going to the effort of installing a solar array probably would be worth the effort for such a small billing. Additionally the Co-op is not subject to the PUC rulings on public utilities and they are already discounting the credits on net metering by about 25%.
Bobcatfly, I'm not fully up to speed on Wolfeboro Power, but I believe that like the Co-op they are exempt form the PUC public utility rulings because it is a privately held company. Still, based on what all the other utilities are presently doing you should remain grandfathered. If this is the case, and WP does go with discounted net metering in the future, smile because your grandfathered array should go up in value due to the grandfathered 1 to 1 exchange
All of this is somewhat uncertain because it will ultimately depend on the impending NH PUC's decision, but one thing is for sure ...there is going to be a major shakeup this summer and anyone that already has a solar system installed, or booked to be installed with the interconnect application in place will appear to have locked in a significant advantage going forward