Oil vs. Propane Heat ?

bigdog · 05-01-2017, 09:17 AM

Oil vs. Propane Heat for heating house.

I plan to move out of my townhouse condo and purchasing a residential home in the Lakes Region..... (keeping Townhouse for income).

I would like to know the benefits and disadvantages between the two.
Costs ? Maintenance ? Efficiency ?

Thanks,
Bigdog

BroadHopper · 05-01-2017, 09:35 AM

Below is current price comparison between heating fuels in NH

http://www.nh.gov/oep/energy/energy-...ices/index.htm

If you can get natural gas, by all means use it! I have a condo heated with natural gas with the latest condensing boiler technology. I also replace my 60 gallon gas water heater with on demand. I save 30% on heating fuel from conventional to condensing technology, 70% from tank to on demand!

Propane may be twice the price of oil per mmbtu, maintenance is a lot less and if you have an electric hot water heater, the conversion to gas on demand will save you a lot of money.

Since the conversion my gas bill never went over $90 a month. Before my bill average $130 during the winter months.

The condo was built in 1977 and is about 1200 sg feet. baseboard heated.

8gv · 05-01-2017, 09:36 AM

There exists on the web, a chart that compares the cost of heating by various fuels using a common unit of heat output. It might be BTU's or Therms (which could be the same thing).

On that chart propane was the second most expensive, only to be beaten by electric resistance heat.

I have propane, forced hot air with a/c. My house has 2x6 walls and is well insulated having been built to 2010 codes. Coming from an electric heat house, I find it really inexpensive to heat and cool. The propane is negotiated en masse with my neighbors resulting in a really low price per gallon.

I suspect oil would be cheaper to burn but lately I haven't seen oil used in forced hot air systems. Going with a baseboard system means additional ductwork for a/c.

The mini-split systems can get a/c into a house without duct work.

I suggest that you find the chart I have referenced.

8gv · 05-01-2017, 09:47 AM

The chart posted above is similar to the one I referenced in my post.

It is interesting to note that the propane price used for their analysis was

$3.40/gal

This year I paid

$1.48/gal

I suspect that nobody within earshot paid more than $2.50/gal this year.

The date of the analysis is March 2017 so it's current.

If the oil cost per gallon was $2.42 as stated in the chart AND you bought propane at the price I paid, propane beats oil.

SAMIAM · 05-01-2017, 10:22 AM

Paying $.97 for propane through our group so that chart is not accurate

thebix · 05-01-2017, 10:42 AM

New Hampshire Climate Audit has a cost compare web page.

http://www.nhclimateaudit.org/calculators.php

One can input their own costs and efficiencies to provide an accurate comparison for your situation.

My own propane group buy rate of 1.47 and a 90% efficient system yields propane cheaper than the tool's basic oil cost. That would change with a good group buy of oil, of course.

Biggd · 05-01-2017, 10:50 AM

Oil is cheaper. The past few years it's actually been cheaper than burning wood unless you are cutting and splitting it yourself.

LakeTimes · 05-01-2017, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd

Oil is cheaper. The past few years it's actually been cheaper than burning wood unless you are cutting and splitting it yourself.

Agreed - but then again I always ask myself what's my time worth.

I use propane with Minisplit. Works fantastic. If Natural Gas ever came by, I'd hook up to that in seconds! Also burn wood pellets in the basement, which is great, but not convinced it's cheaper in the long run with cleanings, maintenance etc. Easiest and favorite so far is the propane insert for the fireplace. Would recommend that to anyone!

tummyman · 05-01-2017, 06:12 PM

One thing you need to consider is the BTU rating of various fuels. #2 oil generates 138,000 BTU's per gallon, propane generates 91,600 BTU's. So all gallons are not equal. You need to consider this in any calculation. efficiencies on oil can range in the 85% range while gas can get into the mid 90's IF you buy a VERY EFFICIENT system. Otherwise, they are in the high 80's/low 90's. You can use the following formula to get the cost per million BTU's for comparison purposes. All costs need to be expressed in cost per million BTU's to make the comparisons equal. For example, 138,000BTU/1,000,000=0.1380..... You need to now plug in the efficiency of the unit and the cost per gallon of the fuel.

Oil (in medium efficiency central heating system)
Heat Cost = $2.30 (price per gallon) ÷ [0.1380 × 0.85 (efficiency)] = $19.61 per million Btu.
Propane (in medium efficiency central heating system)
Heat Cost = $3.14 (price per gallon) ÷ [0.0916 × 0.85 (efficiency)] = $40.33 per million Btu.

One other thing you can include as an extra is the cost of maintenance. Oil needs annual cleaning, cost approx. $125 -$150. For gas, not needed. Both types of systems are mechanical so maintenance for mechanical items can be assumed to be equal. Oil requires a chimney or power vent. Gas, if using a modern condensing boiler, can be vented using regular Schedule 40 PVC directly through wall.

Hope this helps......

NH.Solar · 05-02-2017, 11:16 AM

I can't let this thread slide by without chiming in ...why even consider fossil fuel heating when air source heat pumps (ie, "mini-splits") and solar have made them somewhat obsolete?
Installing or replacing a furnace and the periperal circulation systems is generally more expensive than a whole house air pump with individual handlers. Plus the current super efficient breed of air source heat pumps have the ability to heat, AC, and filter your air. Talk to someone that has one!
A matched solar system will provide the power to run a heat pump system and it only takes 5-8 years for the money saved in utility bills and/or fossil fuels to offset the cost of the solar system ...and from that point forward your power and heat will be coming to you virtually for free A solar system is nearly maintenance free and the expected life is generally thought to be fortyish years.
Will your new home eventually be a retirement home? Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if you didn't have to worry about the cost of hvac and electricity during your golden years?

Biggd · 05-02-2017, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

I can't let this thread slide by without chiming in ...why even consider fossil fuel heating when air source heat pumps (ie, "mini-splits") and solar have made them somewhat obsolete?
Installing or replacing a furnace and the periperal circulation systems is generally more expensive than a whole house air pump with individual handlers. Plus the current super efficient breed of air source heat pumps have the ability to heat, AC, and filter your air. Talk to someone that has one!
A matched solar system will provide the power to run a heat pump system and it only takes 5-8 years for the money saved in utility bills and/or fossil fuels to offset the cost of the solar system ...and from that point forward your power and heat will be coming to you virtually for free A solar system is nearly maintenance free and the expected life is generally thought to be fortyish years.
Will your new home eventually be a retirement home? Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if you didn't have to worry about the cost of hvac and electricity during your golden years?

Great sales pitch! I'm a big fan of the new air heat pumps, not so much a fan of solar panels on my roof.

winlessinnh · 05-02-2017, 03:02 PM

Propane is cleaner, no odor, can be used for fireplace, hot water, stove, grill, generator, etc. Oil can only be used to heat.

ishoot308 · 05-02-2017, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

I can't let this thread slide by without chiming in ...why even consider fossil fuel heating when air source heat pumps (ie, "mini-splits") and solar have made them somewhat obsolete?
Installing or replacing a furnace and the periperal circulation systems is generally more expensive than a whole house air pump with individual handlers. Plus the current super efficient breed of air source heat pumps have the ability to heat, AC, and filter your air. Talk to someone that has one!
A matched solar system will provide the power to run a heat pump system and it only takes 5-8 years for the money saved in utility bills and/or fossil fuels to offset the cost of the solar system ...and from that point forward your power and heat will be coming to you virtually for free A solar system is nearly maintenance free and the expected life is generally thought to be fortyish years.
Will your new home eventually be a retirement home? Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if you didn't have to worry about the cost of hvac and electricity during your golden years?

I will agree that if I was to build a new home, it definitely would have an air source heat pump like the Mitsubishi for its primary heating...

Dan

ITD · 05-02-2017, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

I can't let this thread slide by without chiming in ...why even consider fossil fuel heating when air source heat pumps (ie, "mini-splits") and solar have made them somewhat obsolete?
Installing or replacing a furnace and the periperal circulation systems is generally more expensive than a whole house air pump with individual handlers. Plus the current super efficient breed of air source heat pumps have the ability to heat, AC, and filter your air. Talk to someone that has one!
A matched solar system will provide the power to run a heat pump system and it only takes 5-8 years for the money saved in utility bills and/or fossil fuels to offset the cost of the solar system ...and from that point forward your power and heat will be coming to you virtually for free A solar system is nearly maintenance free and the expected life is generally thought to be fortyish years.
Will your new home eventually be a retirement home? Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if you didn't have to worry about the cost of hvac and electricity during your golden years?

I would love to see the supporting numbers for that for say a 3,000 square foot house built to today's code.

BroadHopper · 05-02-2017, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

I can't let this thread slide by without chiming in ...why even consider fossil fuel heating when air source heat pumps (ie, "mini-splits") and solar have made them somewhat obsolete?
Installing or replacing a furnace and the periperal circulation systems is generally more expensive than a whole house air pump with individual handlers. Plus the current super efficient breed of air source heat pumps have the ability to heat, AC, and filter your air. Talk to someone that has one!
A matched solar system will provide the power to run a heat pump system and it only takes 5-8 years for the money saved in utility bills and/or fossil fuels to offset the cost of the solar system ...and from that point forward your power and heat will be coming to you virtually for free A solar system is nearly maintenance free and the expected life is generally thought to be fortyish years.
Will your new home eventually be a retirement home? Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if you didn't have to worry about the cost of hvac and electricity during your golden years?

This is great if you don't live in an HOA. Plus welands rules will make it difficult to trim trees for solar. Otherwise go for it!

When I had to replace my boiler, I look into the Mistibushi split system for best all around use. The dealer determined because of the energy efficiency of the unit, I may need auxiliary heat source. Bear that in mind.

DickR · 05-02-2017, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITD

I would love to see the supporting numbers for that for say a 3,000 square foot house built to today's code.

First off, if we're talking about new construction, building just "to code" is a wasted opportunity. Remember, from an energy and comfort point of view, a house built just to code is the worst house you can legally build. For perhaps 5% extra the house can be in the realm of "superinsulated," and thus easy to heat or cool and very comfortable year round. For such a house, an air-source heat pump makes a great deal of sense, as it will be smaller and the heat introduced in a couple of locations will distribute easily, with no cold spots. For a house like that, of about 3000 sqft living space, the design heat loss ought to be less than 20,000 BTU/hr. Most of the time, the heat pump(s) will be loafing.

ishoot308 · 05-02-2017, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

When I had to replace my boiler, I look into the Mistibushi split system for best all around use. The dealer determined because of the energy efficiency of the unit, I may need auxiliary heat source. Bear that in mind.

How long ago was it since you replaced your boiler? They (Mitsubishi) have come a long way in just the last few years with heat pump technology. Their newer hyper heat sysytems will throw heat at -13 degrees with 76% efficiency! How many days do we get that are lower than that...one maybe? I would have a cheap auxiliary heater or pellet stove as backup for that one day and save tons of money the rest of the winter. in my opinion they are the best and most efficient choice of heating for a New England winter and they are not bad with AC in the hot summer!

Edited to add: I don't know why but you do lose some cooling efficiency with the hyper heat units over a standard unit. The standard units have unbelievable cooling efficiency.

Dan

BroadHopper · 05-04-2017, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

How long ago was it since you replaced your boiler? They (Mitsubishi) have come a long way in just the last few years with heat pump technology. Their newer hyper heat sysytems will throw heat at -13 degrees with 76% efficiency! How many days do we get that are lower than that...one maybe? I would have a cheap auxiliary heater or pellet stove as backup for that one day and save tons of money the rest of the winter. in my opinion they are the best and most efficient choice of heating for a New England winter and they are not bad with AC in the hot summer!

Edited to add: I don't know why but you do lose some cooling efficiency with the hyper heat units over a standard unit. The standard units have unbelievable cooling efficiency.

Dan

Two years ago. Bear in mind I have access to natural gas and I need hot water, The split can not do hot water. The dealer says you can't beat natural gas when the cost of electricity in NH is so high!

I heard that there are hot water tanks available that will heat your hot water using the same principle. I know of a home owner that ordered one on the internet but could not find someone to install it. He may need to hire a guy from Maine.

Is the Mitsi split greener than a condensing boiler? I don't think so. NH electricity is produced mostly from natural gas. Because of loss of transporting the electricity, total efficiency is low.

TheProfessor · 05-08-2017, 04:14 PM

The debate here is endless.
Do a search to read other posts about oil versus propane.
Endless debate.

Me, I will never ever ever ever ever ever go with propane again for primary heat.

05-01-2017, 09:17 AM	#1
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,446 Thanks: 340 Thanked 119 Times in 96 Posts	Oil vs. Propane Heat ? Oil vs. Propane Heat for heating house. I plan to move out of my townhouse condo and purchasing a residential home in the Lakes Region..... (keeping Townhouse for income). I would like to know the benefits and disadvantages between the two. Costs ? Maintenance ? Efficiency ? Thanks, Bigdog

05-01-2017, 10:42 AM	#6
thebix Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South Down since 2009. Posts: 100 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 24 Posts	New Hampshire Climate Audit New Hampshire Climate Audit has a cost compare web page. http://www.nhclimateaudit.org/calculators.php One can input their own costs and efficiencies to provide an accurate comparison for your situation. My own propane group buy rate of 1.47 and a 90% efficient system yields propane cheaper than the tool's basic oil cost. That would change with a good group buy of oil, of course.

05-01-2017, 06:12 PM	#9
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 833 Thanks: 256 Thanked 672 Times in 243 Posts	More calculations..... One thing you need to consider is the BTU rating of various fuels. #2 oil generates 138,000 BTU's per gallon, propane generates 91,600 BTU's. So all gallons are not equal. You need to consider this in any calculation. efficiencies on oil can range in the 85% range while gas can get into the mid 90's IF you buy a VERY EFFICIENT system. Otherwise, they are in the high 80's/low 90's. You can use the following formula to get the cost per million BTU's for comparison purposes. All costs need to be expressed in cost per million BTU's to make the comparisons equal. For example, 138,000BTU/1,000,000=0.1380..... You need to now plug in the efficiency of the unit and the cost per gallon of the fuel. Oil (in medium efficiency central heating system) Heat Cost = $2.30 (price per gallon) ÷ [0.1380 × 0.85 (efficiency)] = $19.61 per million Btu. Propane (in medium efficiency central heating system) Heat Cost = $3.14 (price per gallon) ÷ [0.0916 × 0.85 (efficiency)] = $40.33 per million Btu. One other thing you can include as an extra is the cost of maintenance. Oil needs annual cleaning, cost approx. $125 -$150. For gas, not needed. Both types of systems are mechanical so maintenance for mechanical items can be assumed to be equal. Oil requires a chimney or power vent. Gas, if using a modern condensing boiler, can be vented using regular Schedule 40 PVC directly through wall. Hope this helps......

05-02-2017, 11:16 AM	#10
NH.Solar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Jackson Pond, New Hampton Posts: 236 Thanks: 46 Thanked 141 Times in 78 Posts	I can't let this thread slide by without chiming in ...why even consider fossil fuel heating when air source heat pumps (ie, "mini-splits") and solar have made them somewhat obsolete? Installing or replacing a furnace and the periperal circulation systems is generally more expensive than a whole house air pump with individual handlers. Plus the current super efficient breed of air source heat pumps have the ability to heat, AC, and filter your air. Talk to someone that has one! A matched solar system will provide the power to run a heat pump system and it only takes 5-8 years for the money saved in utility bills and/or fossil fuels to offset the cost of the solar system ...and from that point forward your power and heat will be coming to you virtually for free A solar system is nearly maintenance free and the expected life is generally thought to be fortyish years. Will your new home eventually be a retirement home? Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if you didn't have to worry about the cost of hvac and electricity during your golden years? __________________ Peter NH Solar

05-02-2017, 03:02 PM	#12
winlessinnh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Propane is much more versital Propane is cleaner, no odor, can be used for fireplace, hot water, stove, grill, generator, etc. Oil can only be used to heat.

05-01-2017, 09:35 AM	#2
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,572 Thanks: 3,209 Thanked 1,101 Times in 793 Posts	Heating Prices Below is current price comparison between heating fuels in NH http://www.nh.gov/oep/energy/energy-...ices/index.htm If you can get natural gas, by all means use it! I have a condo heated with natural gas with the latest condensing boiler technology. I also replace my 60 gallon gas water heater with on demand. I save 30% on heating fuel from conventional to condensing technology, 70% from tank to on demand! Propane may be twice the price of oil per mmbtu, maintenance is a lot less and if you have an electric hot water heater, the conversion to gas on demand will save you a lot of money. Since the conversion my gas bill never went over $90 a month. Before my bill average $130 during the winter months. The condo was built in 1977 and is about 1200 sg feet. baseboard heated. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

05-01-2017, 09:36 AM	#3
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,093 Thanks: 64 Thanked 744 Times in 478 Posts	There exists on the web, a chart that compares the cost of heating by various fuels using a common unit of heat output. It might be BTU's or Therms (which could be the same thing). On that chart propane was the second most expensive, only to be beaten by electric resistance heat. I have propane, forced hot air with a/c. My house has 2x6 walls and is well insulated having been built to 2010 codes. Coming from an electric heat house, I find it really inexpensive to heat and cool. The propane is negotiated en masse with my neighbors resulting in a really low price per gallon. I suspect oil would be cheaper to burn but lately I haven't seen oil used in forced hot air systems. Going with a baseboard system means additional ductwork for a/c. The mini-split systems can get a/c into a house without duct work. I suggest that you find the chart I have referenced.

05-01-2017, 09:47 AM	#4
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,093 Thanks: 64 Thanked 744 Times in 478 Posts	The chart posted above is similar to the one I referenced in my post. It is interesting to note that the propane price used for their analysis was $3.40/gal This year I paid $1.48/gal I suspect that nobody within earshot paid more than $2.50/gal this year. The date of the analysis is March 2017 so it's current. If the oil cost per gallon was $2.42 as stated in the chart AND you bought propane at the price I paid, propane beats oil.

05-01-2017, 10:22 AM	#5
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,893 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,675 Times in 585 Posts	Paying $.97 for propane through our group so that chart is not accurate

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05-01-2017, 10:50 AM	#7
Biggd Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH Posts: 4,110 Thanks: 2,219 Thanked 1,189 Times in 756 Posts	Oil is cheaper. The past few years it's actually been cheaper than burning wood unless you are cutting and splitting it yourself.

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05-08-2017, 04:14 PM	#19
TheProfessor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,122 Thanks: 17 Thanked 342 Times in 207 Posts	The debate here is endless. Do a search to read other posts about oil versus propane. Endless debate. Me, I will never ever ever ever ever ever go with propane again for primary heat.