College Tuition

[Sammy]

I'm looking for a loop hole in the system. I'm from Mass, own a place up near the lake and my oldest son has been accepted to UNH. Has anyone had any luck declairing either their residency or their child's residency in NH and got a break on thier tuition? Could save me 10k/yr which would help offset our taxes.

[camp guy]

Now that you have displayed your desire to circumvent the in-state tuition program, maybe you could just call the Admissions Office or the Financial Aid Office and see what suggestions they might have with regard to 'beating' the system. I'm sorry, if you are out of State you have to pay that tuition rate. Massachusetts is already creeping into the southern regions of this State, please, don't move into the tuition structure of the University.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Sammy

I'm looking for a loop hole in the system. I'm from Mass, own a place up near the lake and my oldest son has been accepted to UNH. Has anyone had any luck declairing either their residency or their child's residency in NH and got a break on thier tuition? Could save me 10k/yr which would help offset our taxes.

I think you are out of luck. Your son has to be a resident well before signing up. For example, if your an out-of-state student and then live on campus, you don't get the in-state rate even though technically you are now a resident.

[secondcurve]

Sammy:

What you are trying to do is called stealing. Worse yet, you are trying to steal from me and my neighbors. Please don't do that. I don't want my property taxes increasing any further.

[fatlazyless]

In Massachusetts, they welcome anyone to be a new resident just like a business welcomes a new customer. It takes about two minutes to become a Mass resident. Massachusetts has a state income tax.

In New Hampshire, one's residency is determined at the local town or city level. If the members of the local board of residency do not know you very well, then they start asking questions about your residential address, and place of employment. In NH, the towns do not really want any more residents. What they want are more property tax payers. NH has no state income tax. It has a very different tax structure than Massachusetts. "Make it in Mass. Spend it in NH. Live Free or Die!"

[Woodsy]

No need to pounce on the guy... he has a house here in NH and pays property taxes.

Have your son establish NH residency honestly. Your son needs to live in NH at your lake house for 6 months to establish NH residency. Have him get a NH drivers license, voter registration card, and have his credit card bills delivered to NH. Maybe put the electric bill or cable bill in his name. I doubt you could pull it off for his freshman year, but certainly could be done by his sophmore year...

Woodsy

[Pam]

Thanks, Woodsy for your reasonable response. My goodness. I certainly agree that people should do things legally, but accusing the poor man of "stealing" is a bit harsh, especially considering the amount of money NH towns collect in property taxes from out-of staters (like myself) who do not use the public schools, etc.

[Merrymeeting]

Secondcurve, I think an accusation of stealing is a bit harsh. If that was the intent, I do not think it would have been posted here. It was an honest question from someone looking into whether there is a legal, honest way to accomplish a goal.

I'll now admit, I have a biased view in the same direction. I also have a daughter who is a senior in high school who may be attending UNH next year. I pay real estate taxes in NH and have for many years. Given that real estate taxes are the overwhelming portion of the NH revenue system, the one that funds the university, why shouldn't I be allowed to use that system? FWIW, I would make the same argument about a NH resident who works in MA and wants to send their child to UMass.

Also, FWIW, this is the UNH policy on this. I looked into it last week. I didn't like it, but accepted that this is the way it is and moved on. The short version is that your residency is established for all 4 years upon your original acceptance. Full text at the link below.

http://www.gradschool.unh.edu/home/residency.html

[Seaplane Pilot]

This poor stiff is paying plenty of taxes in NH and wants a return on his investment - can you blame him? Gimme a break - if he were an illegal alien, he'd probably get in-state rates or better yet, a full scholarship. Boy, I love liberals...

[Sammy]

I would like to thank the last few folks who have responded to my question with intelligent civil answers. Thank you Merrymeeting, you obviously have done the research that I was in the process of beginning. I'm not trying to steal anything, just trying to obtain a benefit for my family from the state that I have been a loyal tax payer to for decades. Since this is not an option to me it time to move on. Thanks again for the most recent responses.
Sammy

[EllyPoinster]

Just as an aside, property taxes do not support the University System of New Hampshire. Except for the state portion that gets redistributed to the school districts under (it seems) constantly changing formulas, local property taxes fund the county, town or city and school budgets.

What aid the USNH receives from the state (and it's not a lot - New Hampshire ranks very low here) would come from non-property tax state revenue sources such as the Meals and Rooms Tax and Business Profits Tax.

[TomC]

Many years ago (>20) i worked for a guy who was a U Maine grad. At that time, the states schools in new england had a deal where an out of state student could get the in-state rate if his home University system didn't offer the major desired. My boss went to UMaine Orono for Engineering Physics, a major UMass didn't have. the program was almost the same as EE which he wanted (and ultimately the field he worked in), but there was enough of a difference that it was a unique major and it qualifed under this program. the deal involved reciprocity and worked both ways

I don't know if NH ever did this, or even still does. the major field of study had to be somewhat unique, as well, to get the plan to work.

i think I'd call admissions and ask if they still do this, or something similar.

[secondcurve]

Wow! I am not sure where I should start. I guess I'll go with the liberal comment. As an independent, I more often than not vote republican. I pulled the lever for Bush in 2004 since I was replulsed by Kerry. I like to think of myself as an honest person who tries to play by the rules. The problem with this country is that everyone wants something for nothing. Looking for a "loophole" is indeed another name for stealing. It is the equivalent of registering a car in NH at a second home, while living in Massachusetts. I also take offense to all this talk about paying taxes in NH, but not getting anything back. I am in the same boat. I have always been a Massachusetts resident who has spent time in the Wolfeboro area on weekends and vacations, etc. If you want to take full advantage of the low taxes in NH, then move to the state and you can live under its tax system. It is quite smple. Lastly, I'll give you one final piece of advice. As a graduate of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, I can tell you that there is no better deal on state education than what YOUR state university has to offer. Plus, you will sleep better at night. I am sorry if I ofended you, it wasn't my intent.

[fatlazyless]

Here's an amazing factoid from the NH Dept of Cheap Places to Eat. For $1.50, the snack bar at the NH Community Technical College - Laconia sells a very large and very good slice of plain cheese pizza and it is exempt from the usual 8% meals tax due to an educational tax free zone, or something. How about that?

Here's another amazing tax factoid. Belknap College, Canaan College, Castle College, Concord Commercial College, Franconia College, Gunstock College, Mount Saint Mary College, Nathaniel Hawthorne College, Notre Dame Collge,and Pierce College for Women were all private NH colleges which had to close. Next question.....which state is the only state in the entire country that requires private schools above the 12th grade to pay a property tax.....if you said New Hampshire, then you are correct. Now, do the NH State colleges have to pay a property tax? What do you think? Of course not! So, how come all these private colleges have disappeared and the state system keeps on growing?

[Mr. V]

The guy's not a fraud, or a cheat, he's just looking for a loophole.

Like we all do at tax time.

I'm sure you know this, but the UNH website breaks tuition into three categories: instate (seven grand), New England Regional (eleven grand), and out of state resident.

The obvious inquiry: WHAT does "New England Regional" mean, in this context, and do you qualify?

[Seaplane Pilot]

To avoid is legal, to evade is illegal. Finding a loophole in itself is not fraud by any stretch of the imagination. How many of you send more money to the IRS than is absolutely necessary?

[SAMIAM]

Piece of cake.....bring him down to Mexico and then sneak him back over the border...besides....the welfare and food stamps will help out at college.
Just kidding....just kidding......Woodsy is exactly right.Everything he said will satisfy all state requirements.Good luck and welcome.If you pay real estate taxes in NH you deserve some bennies.

[hazelnut]

Could I tell the town of Tuftonboro that they are stealing from me because I pay taxes to a town I never set foot in due to the fact that I am on an Island?

Stealing is a very harsh and bitter word to use. I think it is a reasonable question that this person has posed. The money they save will be headed to pay the tax bill anyway. S-Curve did you miss the part where this person mentioned they pay taxes in this state????? Does that mean they are stealing from themselves????

Geesh why not crucify this guy

[jimbob1603]

Sammy,
You go for it. I play plenty of RE taxes in NH; and receive minimal benefit in return. For what my NH tax dollar is worth, send your kids to UNH!

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

I'm sure you know this, but the UNH website breaks tuition into three categories: instate (seven grand), New England Regional (eleven grand), and out of state resident.

The obvious inquiry: WHAT does "New England Regional" mean, in this context, and do you qualify?

Here's a link to an explanation of the NERSP (NewEngland Regional Student Progam) and the programs currently available to the residents of the various N. E. states.

http://admissions.unh.edu/admissions/nersp.html

[Gatto Nero]

I really don't understand how anybody could call what Sammy is trying to do stealing. My daughter is a senior and she's looking at a lot of NH schools. Unfortunately, it looks like her first choice would be a private school so the point is moot for me, but I would do anything I could legally do to reduce my cash out of pocket if I could. I could pay a year's tuition at UNH with what I pay in property taxes. I get nothing for those dollars now so why shouldn't we try to do what we can? Frankly, I don't understand why we even have to look for a loophole. We pay taxes just like the residents do so we should be eligible for the reduced tuition anyway. You go Sammy. Good luck.

[KonaChick]

Well that's the point of the post I think...Can you legally declare a part time residence as your legal address to receive in-state tuiton.

[fatlazyless]

Hey, just because someone from Mass has a nice fancy house on the waterfront doesn't qualify them as a resident. To be a resident, at least five generations had to attend the local church and someone had to play at least a tuba in the high school band. What with no state income tax, no capital gains tax, and mucho cheaper car insurance....WHO doesn't want to be a resident of the Granite State? Why, even Mitt Romney, the mega-bucks Gov of Mass, sold off his Cape Cod vacation home cause he couldn't stand all that Cape traffic and was smart enough to buy a big spread over on Springfield Point, close to Bob Bahre's castle.

So what if the State of NH does not have enough tools in its' tax toolbox to support itself! You know what they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and it forces the State to be lean & mean.

And another ting! Let's bring back that two tiered local property tax system like it used to be for fifty years or so, until very recently. Used to be, the locals had one assessing set of rules and the 'away folks' had another. That worked so good for so long! That's the way it should be! Live Free & Die!

[fatlazyless]

Well, maybe the State should pass a law that fines speeding boaters one hundred dollars for every mile over 45. After all, if they can afford a 32'-1150hp-8000lb boat, they must have it. Not a bad idea. And then place the money into the big general State fund. It's sure better than an income tax or a capital gains tax. It would be just another "sin" tax.

[hazelnut]

FLL You are missing the point here.
This original poster did not say they had a "nice fancy house on the waterfront." They said they had a house "near the lake." This is a very big difference. Even that is not the point. They pay taxes here they should be able to reap the same benefits as every other contributing taxpayer.

Yankee, Do not lose sight of the fact that many graduates of the New Hampshire college system who are out of staters chose to make New Hampshire their home AFTER graduation. Thus making New Hampshire even greater than it was before.
They never said they couldn't afford the tuition. They said the $10,000 savings would be nice to help cover the tax bill on their property in NH.

Just because someone might own a second home in NH does not mean by default that they are swimming in money. Many of us scrape by to pay the bills, taxes, etc on these homes just to be able to enjoy the area part time.

Looking for a little tuition break for a NEW HAMPSHIRE TAXPAYER is hardly "...unethical and immoral at the extreme" to quote Yankee. Frankly that statement is mind boggling. I honestly do not know where to begin????? Immoral? That is an interesting accusation.

Sometimes very few full time residents put on the blinders and throw darts. Thankfully the majority of my friends who call New Hampshire home are not so shortsighted and closed minded.

Sammy I feel for you. Years ago it used to be a very simple process to change your permanent residency to NH. Unfortunately the state did pass legislature making it very difficult to do this. I do not think it is impossible but it is difficult. The New Hampshire College system is excellent. I have two siblings who are graduates and they are very successful. I am sure your son will do well there. There is a good chance he will call NH home after graduation and he will contribute his talents to make this state even better than it already is.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

....Years ago it used to be a very simple process to change your permanent residency to NH. Unfortunately the state did pass legislature making it very difficult to do this...

nowhere amongst all of the rhetoric in this thread does it outline the actual procedure to become a NH resident. Since it is not uncommon to 'retire to the lake', how exactly does one go about the process of establishing NH residence?

is it mailing address, voter registration? What piece of paperwork or combination of circumstances does it? anyone know?

[hazelnut]

Actually I oversimplified. It isn't so difficult to become a resident. This link might help. It states what requirements the schools place to prove residency. It makes it a bit more difficult for those who own a second home in NH to qualify for in-state tuition:

http://www.collegeboard.com/about/as...df/sr_NH01.pdf

[hazelnut]

Regardless of what portion of the quote I chose I stand behind my original point that I am baffled that you think what he was trying to do was commit fraud or do something unethical or immoral.

I have to say I do agree with you on the point that the wording in his original post was not the absolute best way to express his point. I think finding a loophole was not the best choice in words. However, I know you understand the original thought in his post. Your comment (the one I quoted) is a bit out of place and should not have been directed towards him.

Rolling in dough is a relative term I guess. Everyone always thinks the grass is always greener. From what I could gather from his post I inferred that he was a middle class working guy that was able to afford that second home. A $10,000 discount in tuition was going to help pay the tax bill. I'm sure he will manage if he doesn't get the discount but he and his family will have to tighten their belts.

I will never in a million years be able to change your mind on this but, why is it difficult for you to understand that we taxpaying non-full-time-residents are looking for just a few benefits from our money. All too often the attitude is too bad so sad you knew the deal when you bought it etc. etc. etc. Yes we did know that but it doesn't make the pill any easier to swallow. Why should I not be entiled to the rights and priveledges of a taxpayer? I don't understand the point. I'm paying just as much as you are.

To me it doesn't matter if the State spends $1.00 or $10 million dollars on funding. It is a perk that all State taxpayers deserve to take advantage of. I know you disagree with me but that is ok. We'll most likely never see eye to eye on this one.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Yankee

... Furthermore, only 15% of the 2004 UNH budget was funded by the state...

Remember, that 15% that comes from the State is from the State's General Fund. This fund comes form a variety of fees and statewide taxes, but not from property taxes. Your property tax payment falls into three general categories...local municipal or town operation, local school operation and the community's share of the particular county tax in the county they reside. You do not pay property taxes to the State. Therefore, property taxpayers are not funding the USNH system. EllyPoinster correctly pointed this out in her post above, everyone should take a moment to review it.

The other issue that gets confused often here is the definition of resident or residency. There was a lot of misinformation posted here over residency requirements during the last election cycle. It is really quite simple and explained in the following RSA:

TITLE I
THE STATE AND ITS GOVERNMENT
CHAPTER 21
STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION
Section 21:6-a
21:6-a Residence. – Residence or residency shall mean a person's place of abode or domicile. The place of abode or domicile is that designated by a person as his principal place of physical presence for the indefinite future to the exclusion of all others. Such residence or residency shall not be interrupted or lost by a temporary absence from it, if there is an intent to return to such residence or residency as the principal place of physical presence.
Source. 1981, 261:1, eff. June 16, 1981.

Simply said, you are a resident in New Hampshire if this is where you "wear your hat". Many people misconstrue the motor vehicle requirement (you must obtain a NH Driver's license with 60 days of establishing residency) with the belief that you must live in New Hampshire for 60 days, or six months, etc. before you are a resident.

There is no such requirement. The day you move to New Hampshire is the day you can claim residency. This is the concept New Hampshire uses in its same day registration process to meet the Federal Governments requirements for voting rights.

How can you prove RSA 21:6-a? By obtaining a driver's license, filing your federal income tax return with New Hampshire as your residence, registering your vehicle(s) in New Hampshire or registering to vote at your New Hampshire address as some examples. How can you get in trouble? By doing any of the above while regitering to vote, registering vehicles, filing taxes etc. using another State address as your home address.

Despite the erroneous claims made by one of the previous posters, residency requirements and proof necessary are quite fluid and quite simple in the State of New Hampshire. You will find the same posters making preposterous claims to the contrary here each time this subject comes up, in spite of the laws and examples given each time to the contrary.

Finally, I can understand and appreciate Sammy asking if there was a way for a non-resident taxpayer to receive resident rates at the State's colleges. It is a fair question given the taxes he must pay. But I can also see Secondcurve viewing the term "loophole" as an intent to skirt current regulations governing enrollment. The term loophole means different things to different people. In this case it is interpreted differently by residents and non-residents. However, after reading Sammy's (and others)followup I believe he was looking for legal remedies to his situation.

But Secondcurve does also bring up a good point. While it is apparent that Sammy had no intention to defraud the State by making false residency claims, it does happen on occasion. In the case of the college tuition situation, it would be a felony to receive the benefits allowed only to State residents if you were a non-resident using false representations.

Certainly that was not the case here.

I hope this has clarified a few things. If anyone would like further information on the laws regarding residency, or more information on voting registration and voting rights in New Hampshire, please feel free to PM me offline.

Skip

[dpg]

Yankee - Looking for a "Loop-Hole" in a (any) system is not fraud. We all (all of us) look for loop-holes every year at tax time, their called deductions then. Don't you think every politician knows about every loop-hole that exists? Does that make them crooks - Wait, let me rephrase that question!!!

[DRH]

Thanks for that information, Skip. Helpful, as always.

I do find it interesting that although one may obtain a NH driver's license the day he/she claims legal NH residency, in order to qualify for a "Resident" NH fishing license, the applicant must certify that he/she has been a resident of NH continuously for 6 months.

[dpg]

If it's perfectly legal doesn't that make it ethical? I guess I'm not sure and certanly do not want to debate that issue forever. Hey, if I'm a tax-payer up there (which I am - land only) I'll take anything I can LEGALLY gain from. Nobody can ever blame me for that.

[Merrymeeting]

Interesting comments in this article related to this discussion.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ocal_students/