SPEED KILLS - US Coast Guard Auxiliary

Island Lover · 01-05-2006, 05:18 PM

Speed, Kills on Land, Kills on the Water

http://www.auxguidanceskills.info/press/speed.html

Now lets hear the reasons why the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary doesn't know what its talking about.

(Here comes the spin!)

overlook · 01-05-2006, 06:23 PM

No spin the, title is a little missleading, This artical is really about submerge objects in open water. The bottom of my boat does not even have on scratch on it. Some people are just mre carefull than others.

Mr. V · 01-05-2006, 06:34 PM

The article has the word "Speed" splashed boldly in the headline, but does not make any references to speed in the article.

None.

Only some garbled reference to "high...," whatever that is.

The point of the article: watch out for obstructions in the water.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the lake is pretty much obstruction-free.

Given the dearth of logging on Winnipesaukee, given the paucity of raging torrents uprooting trees and washing them into the lake, I daresay the only obstructions Donzi owners need keep an eye out for are the loons.

I'm referring to the feathered kind.

Island Lover · 01-05-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlook

No spin the, title is a little missleading, This artical is really about submerge objects in open water.

This is NO SPIN?

The USCG Aux doesn't know how to name its own articles?

Cal · 01-05-2006, 06:45 PM

I hate to nit pick , but the article states the "boat was traveling at an unknown high..."??? Sounds like drugs or booze to me

After all , 45 mph is hardly a fast speed

pm203 · 01-05-2006, 06:48 PM

Should be called "Hitting submerged object kills"

overlook · 01-05-2006, 07:00 PM

Sorry about my spelling?
6 degrees of separation, I quess one could say speed is involved- The boats were moving.
But when you want attention, say somthing that "catches the eye."

rickstr66 · 01-05-2006, 07:20 PM

Although this article does list speed, it's not the crux of this article. This atricle is best described as being about the dangers of striking submerged objects. Yes it talks about 1 particular case where a boat was traveling at high speed but the rest of the article is about what happens when you strike a submerged object. It talks about the types of boats that are more suseptable to personal injury and which are not. It talks about "open water" not nessesarily being safe because of submerged objects. What do you think would happen if you struck that same object going your proposed 45mph?? I promise you someone would be injured or killed. Your proposed speed limit would do NOTHING for a situation like this. Even at the proposed night time limit of 25mph people would get hurt. This article is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Oh and the guy who died and his 2 co boaters..... no lifejacket (stupid) Simply wearing a lifejacket in this case COULD have saved his life.

Fat Jack · 01-05-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Lover

Here comes the spin!

But if a boat is going fast enough, it becomes virtually airbone and flies right over submerged objects. According to one of the opposers on WOL, the faster a boat goes, the less damage it will cause in a collision because it will just fly right over the target boat. This fellow was serious.

So I guess "speeds saves".

Island Lover · 01-05-2006, 07:57 PM

"unknown high rate of speed"

http://saltfishing.about.com/cs/safety/a/aa040226a.htm

ITD · 01-05-2006, 08:01 PM

Keep it coming Island Lover, this article actually did have Speed and Kills in the same place although in the context of speeding into a submerged object. I think you'll still have a pretty big problem hitting a fixed submerged object at 45 mph. Chicken Little says only headway speed will work, but wait, even at headway speed you could still put a hole in your boat, sink and drown.

Mee-n-Mac · 01-05-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Lover

"unknown high rate of speed"

http://saltfishing.about.com/cs/safety/a/aa040226a.htm

Same incident, posting it twice doesn't make any more pertinent. I again ask why is HB-162 being pushed as a safety measure ? I thought people were worried about being hit by "speeding" boats. I didn't realize that the same people were so concerned about people hurting themselves (vs others). Betcha what though, I'm very sure I can find an accident or 3 that occurred at less than "HB-162 speeds" wherein somebody was hurt or killed. Will you say these are speed related or spin them away somehow ? Will you recommend lower than HB-162 limits as a result ?

Woodsy · 01-05-2006, 09:24 PM

Island Lover,

Its a pretty good article, and an even better website! Some of those articles are AWESOME! I suggest everyone visit the website and poke around. Here is the link to the whole website - http://www.auxguidanceskills.info/index.php

However, the article you mentioned really has nothing to do with excessive speed as debated here in this forum or as it pertains to HB-162 and Lake Winnipesaukee. In this particular instance, the primary cause of the accident was striking a submerged object, not excessive speed. If the speed of the boat was deemed to be excessive, I am sure that would have been included in the USCG report of the accident and subsequently the article. The USCG would have listed the primary cause of this accident as striking a floating or fixed object, depending on what the boat struck was determined to be. Without having all of the facts in regards to that particular accident, I think anything short of headway speed would have damaged the boat and possibly injured the occupants.

What I find really interesting is that the article is listed as "1 Of A Series On Speed" and dated 1-March-04. There are no other followup articles on speed listed and no other articles pertaining to excessive speed at all anywhere else on the website. The website author also indicates that his last article will be posted in Dec 2005.

That being said, the rest of the articles on this website are pretty darn good, especially the ones listed in the safety section and public service section.

Darn good website!

Woodsy

overlook · 01-05-2006, 09:34 PM

I just realized the artical is in a series,(the title) that means we will see it again with new subject matter.

ApS · 01-05-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

However, the article you mentioned really has nothing to do with excessive speed as debated here in this forum or as it pertains to HB-162 and Lake Winnipesaukee. In this particular instance, the primary cause of the accident was striking a submerged object, not excessive speed.

I've been watching this statistic with interest for some time.

"Striking submerged object" seems to be the "Miscellaneous File" for boating accidents at high speed. Seldom is the object identified.

Certainly, in the rivers out West -- and particularly in the Pacific Northwest -- there are lots of submerged objects. I've seen a single piece of "driftwood" at the mouth of the Columbia River that you couldn't see over. (And it floated there). Light, small, boats could be affected by submerged objects even at slower speeds.

It is far more likely that these boats were simply "going too fast for conditions", and were upset by a wave or wake. Inattention to water conditions at high speed would account for "I musta hit a submerged log".

****

Mr. V · 01-06-2006, 05:47 AM

"Certainly, in the rivers out West -- and particularly in the Pacific Northwest -- there are lots of submerged objects."

I purchased an 18' Donzi classic from a Winnipesaukee marina owner, shipped it West to my home, restored it, and soon had a reality check.

We trailered it from Portland to Lake Chelan in early July; I had anticipated high speed runs in alpine splendour (Lake Chelan is stunning, btw) only to be limited to about 20-25 mph due to wood floating in the lake.

Lots of wood, washed in from feeder streams, creeks and rivers.

On another occasion, while blasting along the Columbia River, we hit an underwater snag and damaged the outdrive.

Enough.

Sold it to a doctor, who moored it on a quiet, established lake (no timber, the lucky devil).

The moral of the story: sometimes our wildest dreams hit a snag.

Woodsy · 01-06-2006, 08:14 AM

APS...

WOW! Talk about spin!

The guy who wrote the article is a member of the USGGA, and I highly doubt he got his facts wrong. It seems to me he got them from the official accident report.

Its pretty easy to determine if a boat struck a submerged object... there WILL BE DAMAGE, to either the sterndrive, hull or in some cases both.

The article was about STRIKING A SUBMERGED OBJECT. Not excessive speed!

Woodsy

Dave R · 01-07-2006, 06:26 PM

Not to discount the good work the USCGA does but why would anyone think they are the authority on stuff? They are basically just a group of volunteers trying to help the real CG and promote safe boating. Not a whole lot different than neighborhood crime watch folks in the whole scheme of things.

ApS · 01-08-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

"...there WILL BE DAMAGE, to either the sterndrive, hull or in some cases both.The article was about STRIKING A SUBMERGED OBJECT. Not excessive speed!

Normally, my 3-word reply would begin with the word "no", and end with the word "Sherlock".

My point is that striking a submerged object is "cover" for a stupid boating move, like this one excerpted and paraphrased for readability:

Quote:

"...The boat, travelling an estimated 50 miles an hour, raced toward the shore where a man who was sitting in a lounge chair had to dodge for cover. "My grandsons didn't think I could move that fast! I'm just lucky to be alive," says Vogt, who usually spends summer evening on his deck, where the boat hit.

The boat went airborne and slammed into the house, destroying two picture windows in the back of the home. The entire back wall, which was partially caved inward, will have to be replaced.

'Sheriff's Department says the other boat's passengers were already in the water..."

In cases like this of excessive speed and extreme liability, when the driver states, "I musta hit a submerged object", what can the Marine Patrol do about it? Go looking? No. It gets entered into the accident report recorded as: "Hit a Submerged Object". A.K.A., "Miscellaneous".

BTW: FLL is exactly right about 45MPH. As above, you can turn your boat into an airborne Kubota. (Or Kamikaze, depending).

________________________

"Know"

Limits.

01-05-2006, 05:18 PM	#1
Island Lover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 213 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	SPEED KILLS - US Coast Guard Auxiliary Speed, Kills on Land, Kills on the Water http://www.auxguidanceskills.info/press/speed.html Now lets hear the reasons why the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary doesn't know what its talking about. (Here comes the spin!)

01-05-2006, 06:45 PM	#5
Cal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pitman , NJ Posts: 627 Thanks: 40 Thanked 21 Times in 12 Posts	I hate to nit pick , but the article states the "boat was traveling at an unknown high..."??? Sounds like drugs or booze to me After all , 45 mph is hardly a fast speed __________________ Paddle faster , I think I here banjos

01-05-2006, 07:20 PM	#8
rickstr66 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boston, Ma Posts: 63 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Nice article on the danger of submerged objects Although this article does list speed, it's not the crux of this article. This atricle is best described as being about the dangers of striking submerged objects. Yes it talks about 1 particular case where a boat was traveling at high speed but the rest of the article is about what happens when you strike a submerged object. It talks about the types of boats that are more suseptable to personal injury and which are not. It talks about "open water" not nessesarily being safe because of submerged objects. What do you think would happen if you struck that same object going your proposed 45mph?? I promise you someone would be injured or killed. Your proposed speed limit would do NOTHING for a situation like this. Even at the proposed night time limit of 25mph people would get hurt. This article is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Oh and the guy who died and his 2 co boaters..... no lifejacket (stupid) Simply wearing a lifejacket in this case COULD have saved his life.

01-05-2006, 09:24 PM	#13
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Island Lover, Its a pretty good article, and an even better website! Some of those articles are AWESOME! I suggest everyone visit the website and poke around. Here is the link to the whole website - http://www.auxguidanceskills.info/index.php However, the article you mentioned really has nothing to do with excessive speed as debated here in this forum or as it pertains to HB-162 and Lake Winnipesaukee. In this particular instance, the primary cause of the accident was striking a submerged object, not excessive speed. If the speed of the boat was deemed to be excessive, I am sure that would have been included in the USCG report of the accident and subsequently the article. The USCG would have listed the primary cause of this accident as striking a floating or fixed object, depending on what the boat struck was determined to be. Without having all of the facts in regards to that particular accident, I think anything short of headway speed would have damaged the boat and possibly injured the occupants. What I find really interesting is that the article is listed as "1 Of A Series On Speed" and dated 1-March-04. There are no other followup articles on speed listed and no other articles pertaining to excessive speed at all anywhere else on the website. The website author also indicates that his last article will be posted in Dec 2005. That being said, the rest of the articles on this website are pretty darn good, especially the ones listed in the safety section and public service section. Darn good website! Woodsy Last edited by Woodsy; 01-05-2006 at 11:11 PM.

01-05-2006, 06:23 PM	#2
overlook Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gilford Posts: 57 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	No spin the, title is a little missleading, This artical is really about submerge objects in open water. The bottom of my boat does not even have on scratch on it. Some people are just mre carefull than others.

01-05-2006, 06:34 PM	#3
Mr. V Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton Posts: 1,406 Thanks: 65 Thanked 258 Times in 176 Posts	The article has the word "Speed" splashed boldly in the headline, but does not make any references to speed in the article. None. Only some garbled reference to "high...," whatever that is. The point of the article: watch out for obstructions in the water. Hate to burst your bubble, but the lake is pretty much obstruction-free. Given the dearth of logging on Winnipesaukee, given the paucity of raging torrents uprooting trees and washing them into the lake, I daresay the only obstructions Donzi owners need keep an eye out for are the loons. I'm referring to the feathered kind.

01-05-2006, 06:48 PM	#6
pm203 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 225 Thanks: 41 Thanked 86 Times in 46 Posts	Should be called "Hitting submerged object kills"

01-05-2006, 07:00 PM	#7
overlook Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gilford Posts: 57 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sorry about my spelling? 6 degrees of separation, I quess one could say speed is involved- The boats were moving. But when you want attention, say somthing that "catches the eye."

01-05-2006, 07:57 PM	#10
Island Lover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 213 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post	"unknown high rate of speed" http://saltfishing.about.com/cs/safety/a/aa040226a.htm

01-05-2006, 08:01 PM	#11
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,929 Thanks: 477 Thanked 691 Times in 387 Posts	Keep it coming Island Lover, this article actually did have Speed and Kills in the same place although in the context of speeding into a submerged object. I think you'll still have a pretty big problem hitting a fixed submerged object at 45 mph. Chicken Little says only headway speed will work, but wait, even at headway speed you could still put a hole in your boat, sink and drown.

01-05-2006, 09:34 PM	#14
overlook Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gilford Posts: 57 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I just realized the artical is in a series,(the title) that means we will see it again with new subject matter.

01-06-2006, 05:47 AM	#16
Mr. V Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: the left coast (Portland)and West Alton Posts: 1,406 Thanks: 65 Thanked 258 Times in 176 Posts	"Certainly, in the rivers out West -- and particularly in the Pacific Northwest -- there are lots of submerged objects." I purchased an 18' Donzi classic from a Winnipesaukee marina owner, shipped it West to my home, restored it, and soon had a reality check. We trailered it from Portland to Lake Chelan in early July; I had anticipated high speed runs in alpine splendour (Lake Chelan is stunning, btw) only to be limited to about 20-25 mph due to wood floating in the lake. Lots of wood, washed in from feeder streams, creeks and rivers. On another occasion, while blasting along the Columbia River, we hit an underwater snag and damaged the outdrive. Enough. Sold it to a doctor, who moored it on a quiet, established lake (no timber, the lucky devil). The moral of the story: sometimes our wildest dreams hit a snag.

01-06-2006, 08:14 AM	#17
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	APS... WOW! Talk about spin! The guy who wrote the article is a member of the USGGA, and I highly doubt he got his facts wrong. It seems to me he got them from the official accident report. Its pretty easy to determine if a boat struck a submerged object... there WILL BE DAMAGE, to either the sterndrive, hull or in some cases both. The article was about STRIKING A SUBMERGED OBJECT. Not excessive speed! Woodsy

01-07-2006, 06:26 PM	#18
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,985 Thanks: 246 Thanked 744 Times in 444 Posts	Not to discount the good work the USCGA does but why would anyone think they are the authority on stuff? They are basically just a group of volunteers trying to help the real CG and promote safe boating. Not a whole lot different than neighborhood crime watch folks in the whole scheme of things.