Electric hot water heater question...

Misty Blue · 03-06-2015, 04:13 PM

I am tire4d of running my boiler all summer just to heat hot water. So I plan to put in an electric system for the season.

There is a fairly new system that uses a heat pump which is on top of the heater to take heat from the room and pump it down into the water tank. You heat the water while air conditioning and de-humidifying the basement! The engineer in me loves the concept.

They are expensive, around $1200 but you can get a rebate (up to $500) from the Co-Op which brings it back into range.

My question is "just how noisy is the compressor"?

I don't want to sink in a pile of money only to find out that I have to turn up the volume on the TV in the living room up stairs.

Any thoughts?

Misty Blue

thinkxingu · 03-06-2015, 04:58 PM

I've read lots of negative reviews about them--do some reading and see whatchoo find.

MAXUM · 03-06-2015, 05:40 PM

Have you considered any "on demand" options? Many are raved about and it's about as efficient as you can get since you're only heating water you are using.

DickR · 03-06-2015, 07:08 PM

Here are some GBA blogs that provide good reading for you:
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...aters-come-age (with 92 comments)

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...rs-waste-money (with 107 comments)

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-water-heaters (with 90 comments)

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-cold-climates (only a year old, and 13 comments)

You can search there for other relevant blogs and Q&A for more reading than you have time to do.

KDL · 03-06-2015, 08:25 PM

I have one of the heat pump water heater and love it. There is fan noise but it is not bad. Cost me about $14.00 a month to operate.

Hawley · 03-07-2015, 07:55 AM

One of the very important variables is that the heater is installed in a warm area

chocophile · 03-07-2015, 08:56 AM

We have an on-demand hot water heater (natural gas) and I'm not thrilled with it.

There is a delay after the water begins to flow, and it takes a while to heat up the exchanger before the water gets hot. As a result, you have to run the water for a long time before it's hot at the faucet. If you're just washing your hands, it takes too long.

When you shut off the water, the heat exchanger quickly gives up its heat. So when you turn the faucet back on, it's cold again and you have to wait.

You end up wasting a lot of water waiting for it to get hot.

If you are in the shower when someone starts up the dishwasher or washing machine, you get widely varying pressure, so temperature variation.

Finally, I think another thread mentioned that you cannot completely drain an on-demand unit to shut it down in the winter.

I can imagine a unit that addresses these complaints, but I don't think it's on the market yet.

BroadHopper · 03-07-2015, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocophile

We have an on-demand hot water heater (natural gas) and I'm not thrilled with it.

There is a delay after the water begins to flow, and it takes a while to heat up the exchanger before the water gets hot. As a result, you have to run the water for a long time before it's hot at the faucet. If you're just washing your hands, it takes too long.

When you shut off the water, the heat exchanger quickly gives up its heat. So when you turn the faucet back on, it's cold again and you have to wait.

You end up wasting a lot of water waiting for it to get hot.

If you are in the shower when someone starts up the dishwasher or washing machine, you get widely varying pressure, so temperature variation.

Finally, I think another thread mentioned that you cannot completely drain an on-demand unit to shut it down in the winter.

I can imagine a unit that addresses these complaints, but I don't think it's on the market yet.

Funny Its the opposite for me. It takes a minute for the hot water to reach the faucet and it is hot! Even when the dishwasher and clothes washer is on I have a great shower. I love my tank less hot water heater. Maybe it is not installed right? I have the System 2000 unit.

Hawley · 03-07-2015, 01:28 PM

System 2000 by Energy Kinetics doesn't make a on demand water heater. They use a plated heat exchanger with a storage tank.

Kamper · 03-08-2015, 08:04 AM

'On demands' do have the delay and waste situation described above but for low-use periods you might want to consider one of the less expensive ones offered at Sportsman's Guide.

I got the cheapest propane version, to use in a camper I have as a guest house. The more expensive ones are about $250 and should be enough for a regular household. If you are handy, you can plumb a spigot line from the hot-water circuit to the outside of your house fairly cheaply and even if you hire a plumber it shouldn't take more than 2-3 man hours.

The whole thing will be much less than the couple thousand that will be wanted for an inside installation. When the propane tank gets chilled it won't provide as much energy to the heater but you still have your boiler to switch on. It's just a question of turning a few valves when you decide which unit to use.

If this suggestion doesn't work out for you, you can still get some of your money back by selling it and you'll have a hot water outlet which will come in handy for cleaning your grill and other gear.

I mounted mine on a post a couple feet away from the trailer wall. I would suggest a similar installation but the larger ones do offer more conventional options. Mine is removed in the off-season but you may choose to leave it in place but winterized.

Good luck!

BroadHopper · 03-08-2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawley

System 2000 by Energy Kinetics doesn't make a on demand water heater. They use a plated heat exchanger with a storage tank.

I don't see a storage tank, and I was told it was tank less. Now I am really confused! It is a great system BTW. It works well with a Mitsubishi split system.

BroadHopper · 03-15-2015, 10:44 AM

I didn't realize they make different models. I have the Accel CS which is a wall mounted integrated boiler. It is one of the most efficient boiler in the 2015 Energystar website. Take a look at this http://www.energykinetics.com/accel-...g-boiler.shtml

TheProfessor · 03-20-2015, 10:53 AM

I have an on demand tankless propane water heater.
Does work and has worked for 10 years.
But it does require adjusting. Water pressure and flow rates.
And there is no one who can repair these. Yes, some claim to be able. But in the end the cost of any repair would approximate the cost of an ordinary 30 gallon electric water heater.

Bottom line.
If I had to do all over again. I would purchase an ordinary run of the mill 30 gallon electric water heater. Easier to replace when wears out and less expensive.

LIforrelaxin · 03-20-2015, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

I am tire4d of running my boiler all summer just to heat hot water. So I plan to put in an electric system for the season.

There is a fairly new system that uses a heat pump which is on top of the heater to take heat from the room and pump it down into the water tank. You heat the water while air conditioning and de-humidifying the basement! The engineer in me loves the concept.

They are expensive, around $1200 but you can get a rebate (up to $500) from the Co-Op which brings it back into range.

My question is "just how noisy is the compressor"?

I don't want to sink in a pile of money only to find out that I have to turn up the volume on the TV in the living room up stairs.

Any thoughts?

Misty Blue

I would check and see that the heat pump could be disconnected should it fail, so that the unit would be just like any other electric hot water heater... After that if you can get a rebate that brings the unit back in line with a regular electric hot water heater then I say go for it...

03-06-2015, 04:13 PM	#1
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Electric hot water heater question... I am tire4d of running my boiler all summer just to heat hot water. So I plan to put in an electric system for the season. There is a fairly new system that uses a heat pump which is on top of the heater to take heat from the room and pump it down into the water tank. You heat the water while air conditioning and de-humidifying the basement! The engineer in me loves the concept. They are expensive, around $1200 but you can get a rebate (up to $500) from the Co-Op which brings it back into range. My question is "just how noisy is the compressor"? I don't want to sink in a pile of money only to find out that I have to turn up the volume on the TV in the living room up stairs. Any thoughts? Misty Blue

03-07-2015, 07:55 AM	#6
Hawley Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Electric Hot Water Heater One of the very important variables is that the heater is installed in a warm area

03-07-2015, 08:56 AM	#7
chocophile Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 19-Mile Bay Posts: 111 Thanks: 15 Thanked 30 Times in 13 Posts	On-Demand Has Some Drawbacks We have an on-demand hot water heater (natural gas) and I'm not thrilled with it. There is a delay after the water begins to flow, and it takes a while to heat up the exchanger before the water gets hot. As a result, you have to run the water for a long time before it's hot at the faucet. If you're just washing your hands, it takes too long. When you shut off the water, the heat exchanger quickly gives up its heat. So when you turn the faucet back on, it's cold again and you have to wait. You end up wasting a lot of water waiting for it to get hot. If you are in the shower when someone starts up the dishwasher or washing machine, you get widely varying pressure, so temperature variation. Finally, I think another thread mentioned that you cannot completely drain an on-demand unit to shut it down in the winter. I can imagine a unit that addresses these complaints, but I don't think it's on the market yet.

03-07-2015, 01:28 PM	#9
Hawley Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	On Demand Water Heater System 2000 by Energy Kinetics doesn't make a on demand water heater. They use a plated heat exchanger with a storage tank.

03-15-2015, 10:44 AM	#12
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,572 Thanks: 3,209 Thanked 1,101 Times in 793 Posts	Energy Kinetics Sytem 2000 I didn't realize they make different models. I have the Accel CS which is a wall mounted integrated boiler. It is one of the most efficient boiler in the 2015 Energystar website. Take a look at this http://www.energykinetics.com/accel-...g-boiler.shtml __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

03-06-2015, 04:58 PM	#2
thinkxingu Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 6,229 Thanks: 1,171 Thanked 2,055 Times in 1,275 Posts	I've read lots of negative reviews about them--do some reading and see whatchoo find.

03-06-2015, 05:40 PM	#3
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	Have you considered any "on demand" options? Many are raved about and it's about as efficient as you can get since you're only heating water you are using.

03-06-2015, 07:08 PM	#4
DickR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 750 Thanks: 4 Thanked 259 Times in 171 Posts	Here are some GBA blogs that provide good reading for you: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...aters-come-age (with 92 comments) http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...rs-waste-money (with 107 comments) http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-water-heaters (with 90 comments) http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...-cold-climates (only a year old, and 13 comments) You can search there for other relevant blogs and Q&A for more reading than you have time to do.

03-06-2015, 08:25 PM	#5
KDL Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 118 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts	I have one of the heat pump water heater and love it. There is fan noise but it is not bad. Cost me about $14.00 a month to operate.

03-08-2015, 08:04 AM	#10
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,306 Thanks: 67 Thanked 171 Times in 127 Posts	'On demands' do have the delay and waste situation described above but for low-use periods you might want to consider one of the less expensive ones offered at Sportsman's Guide. I got the cheapest propane version, to use in a camper I have as a guest house. The more expensive ones are about $250 and should be enough for a regular household. If you are handy, you can plumb a spigot line from the hot-water circuit to the outside of your house fairly cheaply and even if you hire a plumber it shouldn't take more than 2-3 man hours. The whole thing will be much less than the couple thousand that will be wanted for an inside installation. When the propane tank gets chilled it won't provide as much energy to the heater but you still have your boiler to switch on. It's just a question of turning a few valves when you decide which unit to use. If this suggestion doesn't work out for you, you can still get some of your money back by selling it and you'll have a hot water outlet which will come in handy for cleaning your grill and other gear. I mounted mine on a post a couple feet away from the trailer wall. I would suggest a similar installation but the larger ones do offer more conventional options. Mine is removed in the off-season but you may choose to leave it in place but winterized. Good luck!

03-20-2015, 10:53 AM	#13
TheProfessor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,120 Thanks: 17 Thanked 341 Times in 206 Posts	I have an on demand tankless propane water heater. Does work and has worked for 10 years. But it does require adjusting. Water pressure and flow rates. And there is no one who can repair these. Yes, some claim to be able. But in the end the cost of any repair would approximate the cost of an ordinary 30 gallon electric water heater. Bottom line. If I had to do all over again. I would purchase an ordinary run of the mill 30 gallon electric water heater. Easier to replace when wears out and less expensive.